More depth on "wills".

[intheblood]

I have been asked about the not my will but thine before and couldn't really answer satisfactorily. If Jesus was praying not my human nature will but mine spirit will, and there's only one on the throne, where is the "other" will now?
I hope thats not confusing LOL.
God bless,
Bro. Jimmie

[tufluv]

Crucified.

[O2blikehim]

I would say we see the will of the Son (God, as relating to man through the incarnation) and all that it entails including some difficulties and limitations relating to the flesh he was, and also the will of the Father (or God apart from the incarnation)

Christ endured, subjected and limited Himself at times to fully participate in the human experience. As much as possible he lived and experienced life as one of us and this included a struggle of the human will.

Stephen

[mfblume]

That human will still exists and is still in submission to the divine will. And it is what is part of the mediatorial role that makes intercession for us.

Let's not forget that Adam was meant to be glorified as Christ now is. Christ in his humanity right now is as we were meant to be had we not fallen, and as we will be now that He redeemed us.

[intheblood]

Makes absolute sense to me mfblume. very good, ty.
God bless,
Bro. Jimmie

[Adoniyah]

Brother Blume said:

That human will still exists and is still in submission to the divine will. And it is what is part of the mediatorial role that makes intercession for us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response:

I find no scripture to support that. The office of Sonship does not have a separate will in regard to the mediatoral role of the lamb or the sacrifie of God.

In truth, I find that the opposite is the case. The will of the Son had become so much united with that of the Father as to no longer have any distinction between the two.

Brother Blume also said:

Let's not forget that Adam was meant to be glorified as Christ now is. Christ in his humanity right now is as we were meant to be had we not fallen, and as we will be now that He redeemed us.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response:

I might would agree with this except for the fact that we shall never be God as Jesus is, nor shall we ever be objects of worship as Jesus is. Neither can we ever be able to say, "All power is given unto me, both in heaven and in earth." There is a level of exaltation of Christ as God that we shall never attain unto even though we are in Christ.

Christ gained a glorified state that we shall never attain unto even after we are also glorified.

[BroRutledge]

I do not believe the Son today is kneeling before the father trying to convince father God to answer my prayers.

The mediator between God and man finished his work at Calvary.

I do not have to wait on the son of God to convince the father to heal me. I was and I am healed because of Calvary.

I do not believe the son had to run to the father to get permission to give me the Holy Ghost when I prayed to God. I believe the father himself heard me and made me his child because of the mediator who finished the work that made it possible at Calvary.

If Jesus is still in the flesh up there somewhere trying to get the Spirit to hear me, my whole concept of the scriptures is all messed up.

When I get to Heaven I expect to see God in the face of Jesus, but I do not expect to see flesh anywhere in Heaven including on the throne.

Christ came in the flesh and destroyed the flesh. There is something in the glorification of Jesus with the Father that is beyond flesh and beyond our understanding.

I believe when I see Jesus he will agree with that. If I am wrong about that I will still be glad to see him.

Ro 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


God bless
BroRutledge

[Adoniyah]

Brother R said:

Christ came in the flesh and destroyed the flesh. There is something in the glorification of Jesus with the Father that is beyond flesh and beyond our understanding.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response:

Well said.

I have no inkling of what glorification is all about except that the man Jesus passed beyond the veil of flesh into a realm that is not in the least conceivable to me.

When I speak of Jesus, the man now glorified, whom God has MADE BOTH, Lord and Christ, I have no idea what I am talking about. But, I do believe the Word. I do believe that JESUS is the ONLY wise God. I shall never see no more than him, but he is ALL that I desire, hunger, crave, yearn, long to see in all his beauty and glory....PRAISE GOD!!! I shall then be satisfied.

[jbenjesus]

Originally posted by Adoniyah
I have no inkling of what glorification is all about except that the man Jesus passed beyond the veil of flesh into a realm that is not in the least conceivable to me.

When I speak of Jesus, the man now glorified, whom God has MADE BOTH, Lord and Christ, I have no idea what I am talking about. The man Jesus was not the flesh/body.

Rather the man Jesus was a spirit incarnated.

That man Jesus Christ (who was a spirit) had within Him the Spirit of God without measure.

After the resurrection by process of glorification (who can understand that), there is no longer a differentiation between the Spirit of God and the spirit of the man Jesus Christ.

Now, after the resurrection/glorification because there is not distinction between the spirit of the man and the Spirit of God, we can safely say without reservation that this man Jesus Christ is God Almighty! And there truly is none other but Him.

There never was nor ever will be any other God but Jesus Christ!

As Peter proclaimed in Acts 2:36 KJV, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ

[BroRutledge]

Adoniyah said
have no inkling of what glorification is all about except that the man Jesus passed beyond the veil of flesh into a realm that is not in the least conceivable to me.

When I speak of Jesus, the man now glorified, whom God has MADE BOTH, Lord and Christ, I have no idea what I am talking about. But, I do believe the Word. I do believe that JESUS is the ONLY wise God. I shall never see no more than him, but he is ALL that I desire, hunger, crave, yearn, long to see in all his beauty and glory....PRAISE GOD!!! I shall then be satisfied.
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AMEN AND AMEN AND AMEN.

God bless
BroRutledge

[BroRutledge]

Incarnate \In*car"nate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Incarnated; p.
pr. & vb. n. Incarnating.]
To clothe with flesh; to embody in flesh; to invest, as
spirits, ideals, etc., with a human form or nature.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

When we see Jesus we will be looking upon all the God that we will ever see. We will look upon the first last beginning and end that which was is and shall ever be almighty.

When God robed himself in flesh God was in Christ. That which was In Christ was also everywhere and above beneath and around all things. Jesus was in the Father and the Father was in Jesus.

People looked upon his flesh and could not understand how a man could raise the dead. What they could not see was the power on the inside and on the outside which made all things and upheld all things.

When the man was crucified that which was on the inside and on the outside never lost power and never died. The flesh gave up the ghost on the cross and three days later that which was on the outside returned to the inside and glorified that which had been in between.

When we see Jesus we will see the marvelous work of God and witness what can happen when God has a plan. God sticks to his plan and nothing we can reason or think will change the plan in any way.

I am looking forward to seeing Jesus. I know that when I see him I will be looking at all the God that ever was or ever shall be.

I will be very happy to dwell in the light of the presence of the one which will light all of heaven knowing that I am walking in the light of the one who was on the outside and on the inside and became the in between that could bring me to the inside.

I don't fully comprehend all of this but I see this when I read the words of Jesus and the words about Jesus in the Bible.

God bless
BroRutledge

[seguidordejesus]

Like a balloon. God on the inside, God on the outside.

[BroRutledge]

and when you break the balloon it's all God.

[seguidordejesus]

haha, so true.

[seguidordejesus]

Or maybe F/S/HG are like Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. Or maaaybe not....

[BroRutledge]

All of creation declares his glory and power. Even reveals the godhead.

[Adoniyah]

Amen brother R

Amen brother J

That is the way I see it...praise God!

No wonder I love talking about Jesus so much. He is so worthy of our love, praise and worship. Praise God!

Indeed all of creation declares his eternal power and Godhead:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[cconkle]

This is the very problem that plagues the Trinitarians. If Jesus was a man and prayed to God then they have to be two separate persons. If they were one person then the
prayer was a charade so the Gospels could write more. So was Jesus a man, God, both?

Here's my thoughts on this topic:
Correct me if I'm wrong:

There are many forms of doctrine that take root from this problem, arianism, nestorianism, trinitarianism, etc. The first thing we can nail down is that there is, of course, only one God. I dont think I have to scripturally prove that. The next thing we have to decide is that Jesus is God, again I don't think we need scriptures here. The big question is how is Jesus God and Man?

Nestorius decided that there must be two persons in Jesus, one the man's person, and the other God's person. This is far removed from our interpretation of persons, and actually meant that there were two natures side by side in Christ. The problem is that God was not fully man, and the man was not fully God.

Trinitarians made God three, and Arius just flat split them into God and demi-God.

In my mind, there was a intermingling and complete infilling of the spirit of Jesus Christ with the spirit of God similar to how the Holy Ghost fills us (not exactly) so that there was a distinction of wills/natures but not the separation of wills/natures that Nestorius taught. A singleness of "persons." Jesus was 100% man, but from creation or conception was also 100% filled with God without destroying his manliness. This is the best way I have found to explain the combination of scriptures.

This allows for the prayer to be genuine and valid. The manness or nature of Jesus was praying to God, a demonstration that in the fallen state of man, all flesh must lean on the spirit of God.

To use a couple of analogies: Jesus was not a shell that God put on like a turtle, nor was he a spiritual 2-seater sports car for God to ride in. He was completely God and yet completely man. Don't take this as inflamatory remarks, I am not making fun, only dramaticising the distinctions for clarity.


If you say that there is no distinction:
How do you then explain that Jesus did not know when he was coming back? Only the Father knows, but if there is no distinction then Jesus had to be lying. I will make a post here soon with my explanation of all this, but we have to keep in mind that there are a few instances of a God/Man distinction (caution: not separation, but distinction) in scripture: Matthew 26:39-42, Matthew 24:36, Hebrews 1.

These scriptures are commonly used by trinitarians to trifurcate God into three "people," but we cannot ignore one scripture.


If you say that Jesus was only a "robe of flesh":
Then you must state that first Jesus was playing a charade in the Garden, and that second, he wasn't being truthful in Matthew 24:36. Also, Hebrews 1 gets really difficult to explain.

Love every one of you Brothers and Sisters,
Keep the Faith,
CConkle

[BrotherBallard]

Bro. Conkle,

Welcome to GNC!!! You will enjoy it here! It took you long enough to get here.

Excellent post and a very good explanation, it goes along with what I stated in another thread:

A lot of Apostolic/Pentecostal people are scared to explore the topic of Oneness in depth because of the fear that they will end up in false doctrine, but that is the one of the biggest deceptions. Truth is Truth!!! As you journey through studying the Oneness of God, you will realize how finite you really are and how Infinite He is.



As one can tell you have studied in depth on the Oneness and incarnation of God!

In His Name!!!

[Norman]

"Or maybe F/S/HG are like Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. Or maaaybe not...."

I would go with not.
Do you happen to know what you get when you combine hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen?