"Trinitarianism just falls apart with this..."

[luvmyfamily]

A quote today, from my trinitarian pastor. He said, "what I just don't get, is how could the Father forsake His Son, His eternal, beloved Son? This is one of those things that Trinitarianism just crumbles under, it falls apart because trinitarianism can't answer it. But God knows, and one day, we will know, too."

Well, needless to say, I was laughing inside, with a "ooh, ooh! I know, i know! Because God is not a trinity! Pastor, that will answer ALL your questions!" I was writhing throughout the whole Sunday School lesson, with talking about trinity-this and trinity-that, and an eternal, pre-existing Son, you know the drill. I admit, he does have a lot of good insights about God which I do agree with, just not the ones about these types of things. :down:

But when he said that trinitarianism falls apart over that, I beamed from ear to ear...because you know what? He's right! Only problem is, he doesn't know what to do about it, just shrugs it off as "one of those things we cannot understand till we get to Heaven."

I cannot wait till the day I get enough courage to talk to him about these things...no doubt I will be criticized and reprimanded seriously, and thought of as a cult believer (yes, he is one of those that believes the Apostolics are a cult). I SO felt like getting up and leaving the room (loudly) earlier, but I wanted to stay and hear exactly what he had to say. He only confirmed (unknowingly) what I know in my spirit to be true - that God is not a trinity. Period.

[MawMaw]

A quote today, from my trinitarian pastor. He said, "what I just don't get, is how could the Father forsake His Son, His eternal, beloved Son? This is one of those things that Trinitarianism just crumbles under, it falls apart because trinitarianism can't answer it. But God knows, and one day, we will know, too."

Well, needless to say, I was laughing inside, with a "ooh, ooh! I know, i know! Because God is not a trinity! Pastor, that will answer ALL your questions!" I was writhing throughout the whole Sunday School lesson, with talking about trinity-this and trinity-that, and an eternal, pre-existing Son, you know the drill. I admit, he does have a lot of good insights about God which I do agree with, just not the ones about these types of things. :down:

But when he said that trinitarianism falls apart over that, I beamed from ear to ear...because you know what? He's right! Only problem is, he doesn't know what to do about it, just shrugs it off as "one of those things we cannot understand till we get to Heaven."

I cannot wait till the day I get enough courage to talk to him about these things...no doubt I will be criticized and reprimanded seriously, and thought of as a cult believer (yes, he is one of those that believes the Apostolics are a cult). I SO felt like getting up and leaving the room (loudly) earlier, but I wanted to stay and hear exactly what he had to say. He only confirmed (unknowingly) what I know in my spirit to be true - that God is not a trinity. Period.


I just read your post and am confused?? You have a trinitarian pastor? But you know the truth of oneness? I dont understand why you are attending that sort of church? Maybe your husband refuses to go anywhere else or some other reason? Just curious. :)

[milady]

I am wondering the same thing.
Isn't there a oneness church in your area?

[luvmyfamily]

I suppose you haven't read my rants and raves that abounded several months ago. Yes, I attend a trinitarian church. and yes, there is only one Oneness chuch here in town. And yes, my husband doesn't agree with it's doctrine, so we go to a different church.

I and my family went to and became members of a Oneness church for about 8 months, before we moved away to Missouri. It was a great church, with a wonderful pastor and a wonderful fellowship and a wonderful truth. The oneness church here in our new town, however, operates a bit differently and hubby was quite uncomfortable with the pastor's views on things and how they seemed to contradict the UPC's official stance (unrelated to Oneness). In his mind we had no choice but to seek a different church, and there are no other oneness churches here. So we are stuck with a trinitarian-type church. The pastor has a lot of good views and truths, but I cringe the few times he brings up "trinity" or "eternal Son" or things like that. I am on the praise team, and every so often a few words in a song might say the words "Blessed trinity", or "Godhead three-in-one" or something like that. In those times, I simply don't sing those parts. I can't bring myself to do that. ANd so far, either no one has noticed or they have, and simply haven't said anything to me.

The only baptisms this church has had in the year we have been here have been a few children who have come with their parents their whole lives. I have not even witnessed these...they occur in the first service, and I sing in the third. New members are never new believers, only transfers. There is no altar call, or praying with or helping someone who wants to come to Christ. If there is anyone who wants to, they don't know how, and no one knows who they are. It just drives me absolutely crazy. I grin and bear it (with gritted teeth) for my husband's sake.

Don't get me wrong, this is a nice body of Christians, full of prayer, and very missionary-minded. But the trinity has been drummed into them their whole lives, just like it was with me until I sought out the truth for myself. And to think otherwise is often considered heresy. Most people don't even know that any other way exists. And trying to think of God in a way other than with a trinitarian mindset is VERY difficult; I still struggle at times, although I know the truth.

So, I hope that answers your questions.

[MawMaw]

I honestly believe I would stay home and study the Bible and pray and sing and have church right by myself, if the only choice of church I had to attend was a church that preaches and teaches false doctrine.

I have a niece that lives in Nebraska, that does that very thing because their is NO church near her that preaches Truth.

I pray that you and your husband soon find a church of Truth.

God bless :)

[luvmyfamily]

I honestly believe I would stay home and study the Bible and pray and sing and have church right by myself, if the only choice of church I had to attend was a church that preaches and teaches false doctrine.

I have a niece that lives in Nebraska, that does that very thing because their is NO church near her that preaches Truth.

I pray that you and your husband soon find a church of Truth.

God bless :)

lol, I do just that (have church at home), and it impacts me so much more than going to this church every Sunday. I am obliged to go, however. Oh well. Perhaps one day we will just start having house church.

[JesusIsAll]

Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Someday I hope you get the courage also.

[Estrada]

Personally I would rather disagree in a oneness church then attend a false doctrine wolf in sheep clothing church I would definitely beware of that there are many scriptures pertaining to false doctrine in the bible to beware of that just may be a future trap being set up by the enemy. Becareful your treading on shaky ground...

[luvmyfamily]

Personally I would rather disagree in a oneness church then attend a false doctrine wolf in sheep clothing church I would definitely beware of that there are many scriptures pertaining to false doctrine in the bible to beware of that just may be a future trap being set up by the enemy. Becareful your treading on shaky ground...

Oh, yes, I know this well. But hubby won't have our family be separated in church, no matter what I try to tell him. I just continue to pray and I know that eventually the veil will be ripped from his eyes. In the meantime I try not to get sucked into the doctrine of our current church. I bide my time, knowing I currently don't have a choice.

[Mordocai]

Do you say that the Father abandoned the Son because Jesus said "My God my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Have you read Psalm 22?
In Jesus saying this first line of the Psalm, He is invoking (to the best of His ability, with being choked to death and trying to get air in His lungs, which means every single thing He says on the Cross is extremely important) the entire message of Psalm 22.
It ends in a triumphant note, but Jesus is not saying the Father forsook Him (Many Protestant theologies will say this)
It could be interpreted as saying (if you simply take the one verse alone) it FELT like Jesus was abandoned in His humanity simply because Jesus was atoning for every single sin and in SPITE of that, Jesus STILL commends His Spirit to the Father.
But in the fuller reality of it, Jesus is invoking all of Psalm 22.

God Bless
Mordocai

[Cassius]

I suppose you haven't read my rants and raves that abounded several months ago. Yes, I attend a trinitarian church. and yes, there is only one Oneness chuch here in town. And yes, my husband doesn't agree with it's doctrine, so we go to a different church.

I and my family went to and became members of a Oneness church for about 8 months, before we moved away to Missouri. It was a great church, with a wonderful pastor and a wonderful fellowship and a wonderful truth. The oneness church here in our new town, however, operates a bit differently and hubby was quite uncomfortable with the pastor's views on things and how they seemed to contradict the UPC's official stance (unrelated to Oneness). In his mind we had no choice but to seek a different church, and there are no other oneness churches here. So we are stuck with a trinitarian-type church. The pastor has a lot of good views and truths, but I cringe the few times he brings up "trinity" or "eternal Son" or things like that. I am on the praise team, and every so often a few words in a song might say the words "Blessed trinity", or "Godhead three-in-one" or something like that. In those times, I simply don't sing those parts. I can't bring myself to do that. ANd so far, either no one has noticed or they have, and simply haven't said anything to me.

The only baptisms this church has had in the year we have been here have been a few children who have come with their parents their whole lives. I have not even witnessed these...they occur in the first service, and I sing in the third. New members are never new believers, only transfers. There is no altar call, or praying with or helping someone who wants to come to Christ. If there is anyone who wants to, they don't know how, and no one knows who they are. It just drives me absolutely crazy. I grin and bear it (with gritted teeth) for my husband's sake.

Don't get me wrong, this is a nice body of Christians, full of prayer, and very missionary-minded. But the trinity has been drummed into them their whole lives, just like it was with me until I sought out the truth for myself. And to think otherwise is often considered heresy. Most people don't even know that any other way exists. And trying to think of God in a way other than with a trinitarian mindset is VERY difficult; I still struggle at times, although I know the truth.

So, I hope that answers your questions.

Instead of arrogantly rejecting the Trinitarian viewpoint, perhaps you should try to understand its evidence instead of simply disregarding it without consideration, and in mockery. Indeed, you are not being entirely honest with your fellow congregational members by being part of the worship team and yet not holding to the beliefs of the congregation. You should be removed from that position.

[Cassius]

A quote today, from my trinitarian pastor. He said, "what I just don't get, is how could the Father forsake His Son, His eternal, beloved Son? This is one of those things that Trinitarianism just crumbles under, it falls apart because trinitarianism can't answer it. But God knows, and one day, we will know, too."

Well, needless to say, I was laughing inside, with a "ooh, ooh! I know, i know! Because God is not a trinity! Pastor, that will answer ALL your questions!" I was writhing throughout the whole Sunday School lesson, with talking about trinity-this and trinity-that, and an eternal, pre-existing Son, you know the drill. I admit, he does have a lot of good insights about God which I do agree with, just not the ones about these types of things. :down:

But when he said that trinitarianism falls apart over that, I beamed from ear to ear...because you know what? He's right! Only problem is, he doesn't know what to do about it, just shrugs it off as "one of those things we cannot understand till we get to Heaven."

I cannot wait till the day I get enough courage to talk to him about these things...no doubt I will be criticized and reprimanded seriously, and thought of as a cult believer (yes, he is one of those that believes the Apostolics are a cult). I SO felt like getting up and leaving the room (loudly) earlier, but I wanted to stay and hear exactly what he had to say. He only confirmed (unknowingly) what I know in my spirit to be true - that God is not a trinity. Period.

What's so hard to understand, with all due respect? The question your pastor is struggling with is answered by the Scriptures themselves. The Bible makes it clear that God loved humanity, and His undeserved love for the human race led Him to send his "only begotten Son" to be the sacrifice for our sins on the cross (John 3:16). Isn't this Christianity 101? The near-sacrifice of Isaac, who is called Abraham's "only begotten son" (Hebrews 11:17) was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of the Son of God by God the Father.

[zealwriter]

Here I go with something else unpopular to say...Well, not that it is the ideal set up what is being debated over but I have seen something like this and it turned according to the word the LORD gave me that I gave a certain brother and sister in the LORD. There was a brother and sister that left a church (Oneness) and went to a church the was all together of another doctrine. The church that they left was full of problems, I mean constant contentions that I don't want to get into. The LORD gave me a word to tell the brother that his wife and he would be like a spiritual bomb in that congregation which would change it greatly. The LORD showed me that they would infiltrate this church for His glory. This was a fast growing church, and after a year because of the position the wife took about her young children's baptism the Pastor of that church was moved and commanded that the whole church be baptized in JESUS name and continue it in practice. Sister, ask the LORD to guide your husband and to cause you and your husband to be what you are meant to be in the place where you are or to make a place if not the former place. I believe corporate worship is important.