BAPTISM: Act of Obedience or Public Demonstration of Faith

[Hebrews116]

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

In Christianity today, there are two main views on baptism. One is that baptism is an essential step in obtaining salvation; the other is that baptism is a public demonstration of one's faith in an already obtained salvation. We know that baptism is important to the Christian faith and walk, but how important is it?

In this lesson, we want to explore fairly, and scripturally, what the Bible has to teach on baptism.

Almost 2000 years ago, Jesus told His little company of believers before His assention, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

What we glean from this passage is that Jesus is saying that faith and baptism are BOTH required together. One without the other is insufficient for salvation. Faith without baptism isn't enough to save you; and likewise, baptism without faith is just getting wet.

But what makes baptism so important?

In Jesus' Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-18; Luke 24:36-49; Acts 1:4-8), He told them to go into all the world and preach the gospel, baptize, and disciple people.

But, what is the gospel?

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 tells us what the gospel message is. "(1) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. (3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

Plainly put, the Gospel message is simply, "The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Notice how Paul said this is what he preached unto them, "(1) ...I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you..." Paul preached the "Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ" to the church in Corinth.

He also said that they received it, and stand on it.

But he also said in verse 2, "(2) By which also ye are saved..." It's the Gospel of Jesus Christ that saves us!

But how? Paul says in Romans 10:16, "(16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel." What does Paul mean by "obeying the Gospel"? If the Gospel saves us, and not all have obeyed the Gospel, then it's OBEDIENCE to the Gospel that saves us.

I have to say that I personally love the Roman Road to Salvation. The book of Romans is one of my, if not my most, favorite books in the Bible. Paul makes his best defense for the Christian faith in the book of Romans.

That being said, most people who use the Roman Road to Salvation leave out one of the most important chapters in Romans while explaining salvation to people. That being chapter 6. In chapter 6 of Romans, Paul explains how the Gospel is translated to applicable steps to obey to obtain salvation.

Romans 6:1-6, "(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. (6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Paul says that by being "Baptized into Jesus Christ" that we "were baptized into His death." That "therefore we are buried with Him by baptism."

In baptism, we take on the death and burial of Jesus Christ. "Our old man is crucified with Him." We are obeying the Gospel of Jesus Christ by being baptized.

This is a LITERAL identification with the death and burial of Jesus Christ in the eye/mind of God. Nowwhere does Paul state that this is a PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION of faith. He said that WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM.

Colossians 2:12, "(12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Why is this so important?

Baptism has several analogies that it is tagged with.

A. BAPTISM IS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.

Luke 24:47, "(47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

Acts 2:38, "(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

B. BAPTISM IS FOR THE WASHING AWAY OF OUR SINS.

Paul, being commanded by Ananias, was told in Acts 22:16, "(16)...arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

1 Corinthians 6:11, Paul says, "(11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Titus 3:5, "(5)...According to his mercy, he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

C. BAPTISM IS A BIRTH OF THE WATER.

John 3:5, Jesus said, "(5)...Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

D. BAPTISM IS A WASHING AND CLEANSING OF THE CONSCIENCE.

1 Peter 3:21, "(21) The like figure where unto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Hebrews 9:14, "(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

E. BAPTISM IS TAKING UPON OURSELVES THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

Galatians 3:27, "(27) For as many of you have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Romans 13:14, "(14)But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ..."

All of the above are synonymous terms referring to the complete work wrought in our lives when we are baptized. And no where do we read where it is a PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION of our faith. But we did read how baptism is for the REMISSION OF SINS, WASHING AWAY OF OUR SINS, BORN AGAIN OF THE WATER, WASHING AND CLEANSING OF THE CONSCIENCE, TAKING ON THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

There was another common thread in all the Scripture we read on baptism. There was a phrase repeated in some form in many of these passages.

Romans 6:3, "(3)...baptized into Jesus Christ..."

Romans 6:5, "(5)...planted together in the likeness of his death..."

Acts 22:16, "(16)...be baptized...calling on the name of the Lord."

1 Corinthians 6:11, "(11)...but ye are washed...sanctified...justified in the name of the Lord Jesus..."

Galatians 3:27, "(27)...baptized in Christ..."

All these Scriptures (and more) say that we are baptized INTO JESUS CHRIST.

Jesus told His disciples in Luke 24:47 to preach repentance and remission of sins in HIS NAME beginning at Jerusalem.

In Matthew 28:19, He said, "(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Notice the grammer in Matthew 28:19 (it is in the same grammatical form in the Greek too). "Of the Father," "of the Son," and "of the Holy Ghost" are ALL prepositional phrases. Prepositional phrases (and ask ANY high school English teacher) refer back to, and point to, the previous NOUN in the sentence. The previous NOUN in the sentence is "name". Notice how "name" is singular in tense. It IS NOT NAMES, but NAME. There is ONE NAME that encompasses and fulfills the three prepositional phrases. That NAME is JESUS.

Colossians 2:9 says, "(9) For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

Colossians 1:19 says, "(19) For it pleased the Father that in him (Jesus) should all fulness dwell."

ALL of the Godhead is found in Jesus Christ. We'll cover more on the Godhead under the forum of "The Godhead."

Let's look at the fulfillment of the Great Commission, though, to see HOW the Apostles OBEYED Jesus' command.

(Continued with part 2)

God Bless!

[Hebrews116]

Greeting in the name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!

Part 2 of "BAPTISM: Act of Obedience or Public Demonstration of Faith?"

Acts 2:38, after preached the first Apostolic message, to answer the question posed him, "What must we do?", Peter replied with, "(39) Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

At Samaria, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 8:12-16).

Cornelius' household and friends, who had just received the Holy Ghost, were commanded by Peter to be baptized in the name of the Lord (Acts 10:44-48.) (I would also recommend checking this Scripture in the N.I.V. and/or the N.A.S.B. too.)

The believers at Ephesus who had already been baptized once using John the Baptist's formula, were instructed by Paul to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19:1-7).

New Testament believers were always baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. There is not one place or indication that anyone was ever baptized in the New Testament having the titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost called over them. The early chuch taught that:

1.) Jesus was both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).
2.) There is salvation in none other than Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12).
3.) Jesus has all power in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18).

How are we "baptized into Jesus Christ", or how do we "put on Christ" without the name of Jesus being called over us when we're baptized? We're not. We're simply getting wet.

Mark 16:16 again, "(16)...he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

In our steps of obedience toward salvation: after we have faith towards God, after we repent of our sins, the 3rd step or act of obedience is to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Our next lesson will deal with tongues being the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

God Bless!

[In His Presence]

Great post you have covered everything the Bible says regarding Baptism, let us not forget that it applies to everyone not just one denomination, Jesus is calling everyone. REVELATION 22:17

[warmbee]

very good post!!! I had just taught a bible study to someone who asked that very same question:)

[jstoblikJesus]

This one is my favorite to use in explaining how baptism relates to salvation.

1 Peter 3:21, The like figure where unto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It plainly says that baptism does save us. End of debate.

[truthseeker3139]

This one is my favorite to use in explaining how baptism relates to salvation.

1 Peter 3:21, The like figure where unto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It plainly says that baptism does save us. End of debate.

Actually what it says is baptism saves us in the same manner as the flood waters saved Noah and his family.

1 Peter 3:20-21

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Explain to us how the waters saved Noah, then, you will know how baptism saves us.

[searching]

I wish the person who started this thread was still an active member here. He's a great guy.

[jstoblikJesus]

Actually what it says is baptism saves us in the same manner as the flood waters saved Noah and his family.

1 Peter 3:20-21

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Explain to us how the waters saved Noah, then, you will know how baptism saves us.

It plainly says that baptism doth also now save us. How else does baptism save us if it isn't talking about salvation.
It isn't washing away because of the water but because of the act of obedience to his word.

[truthseeker3139]

It plainly says that baptism doth also now save us. How else does baptism save us if it isn't talking about salvation.
It isn't washing away because of the water but because of the act of obedience to his word.

Peter is saying that in the same manner that the waters of the flood saved Noah and his family, so too are we saved by baptism. Do you agree or disagree? If in fact the waters of the flood saved Noah, then baptism provides salvation for us. The question that needs to be answered then is this: Did the flood save Noah?

[danacts238]

A lot of people says they belive that a person has to be baptize but the preachers will put it off untill they have more time what will happen to the soul of the one who has repented but did not get baptize becouse the preacher didn't have time for them

[danacts238]

I came out of a baptist church years ago and I am a stong
Apostolic but when you read in the bible when the heard the word God and they belived they were baptize right then

[Evangelist Paul]

Here is a question I have been trying to get answered:
The Bible teaches us that we are saved by our faith in Jesus Christ. I think we would all agree to that.

It also teaches us that the confession of our faith, that is, we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord (Ro 10:8), is an integral part of becoming saved.

Now, to this point our salvation seems to be dependent upon how we respond and what we say.

Then we are baptized. We believe, that is, it is our faith that we are being baptized into Christ.

Now, here is my question: can the words that another person speaks nullify my faith?

[nahkoe]

Now, here is my question: can the words that another person speaks nullify my faith?

I'm not quite sure I understand the question?

Do you mean, can another person speak something that would leave you then unsaved? Or could another person speak something that would shake your faith so much that you would walk away? Or...something else I'm not seeing?

[Evangelist Paul]

Actually what I'm saying is this; It is our faith that saves us, not the faith of another. If my faith is that I am being baptized into Jesus Christ is that effective even if the person baptizing me says something different (like, Father, Son and Holy Ghost).

[nahkoe]

Actually what I'm saying is this; It is our faith that saves us, not the faith of another. If my faith is that I am being baptized into Jesus Christ is that effective even if the person baptizing me says something different (like, Father, Son and Holy Ghost).

Now the question makes sense! I'm curious too. I'll step back and "listen" now.

[Evangelist Paul]

Here is a question I have been trying to get answered:
The Bible teaches us that we are saved by our faith in Jesus Christ. I think we would all agree to that.

It also teaches us that the confession of our faith, that is, we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord (Ro 10:8), is an integral part of becoming saved.

Now, to this point our salvation seems to be dependent upon how we respond and what we say.

Then we are baptized. We believe, that is, it is our faith that we are being baptized into Christ.

Now, here is my question: can the words that another person speaks nullify my faith?

does anyone have an answer?

[searching]

Actually what I'm saying is this; It is our faith that saves us, not the faith of another. If my faith is that I am being baptized into Jesus Christ is that effective even if the person baptizing me says something different (like, Father, Son and Holy Ghost).

Would you allow someone to pray for you saying anything other than the name of Jesus?

I understand that faith is involved, but so is works. Saying the name or title of anyone else is not putting your faith in Jesus, even if that's what you claim to be doing.

For instance, if I want someone to pray for my healing, I'm going to ask someone of like faith to pray for me. I won't go to a Buddhist to get prayer, believing that it's my faith and not his that matters. Why would I want to do that?

Likewise, why would I want someone to say anything other than the name of Jesus over my baptism? Would you allow yourself to be baptized with the name of Mohammed spoken over it, since you apparently don't think it matters what's said?

I'd have to ask where your faith really lies.....

[jdcord]

The waters saved the eight souls of Noah's family (via the ark) by carrying them above the destruction raining down upon the earth below (pun intended).

In like manner, baptism now saves us (via the blood of Christ) by keeping us from the eternal destruction that was awaiting us as a result of our sins.

[Evangelist Paul]

Would you allow someone to pray for you saying anything other than the name of Jesus?

I understand that faith is involved, but so is works. Saying the name or title of anyone else is not putting your faith in Jesus, even if that's what you claim to be doing.

For instance, if I want someone to pray for my healing, I'm going to ask someone of like faith to pray for me. I won't go to a Buddhist to get prayer, believing that it's my faith and not his that matters. Why would I want to do that?

Likewise, why would I want someone to say anything other than the name of Jesus over my baptism? Would you allow yourself to be baptized with the name of Mohammed spoken over it, since you apparently don't think it matters what's said?

I'd have to ask where your faith really lies.....

I would say your conclusion would be valid if we were talking about a faith other than Christian, as in your example a Budhist.

I am talking about someone who is a committed Christian and who believes that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh and that we are saved by faith in his vicarious suffering.

It would seem that if a person who had such faith was baptized by someone else who had that faith that the person being baptized would be baptized into Christ. According to what Jesus said, "According to your faith"

[justme]

The name is the seal of adoption and in adoption what name you take on is the one that you belong to. Jesus said to baptize them in the NAME of the father son and holy ghost which the disciples understood to be Jesus. To be born into that name requires that you take on that name. As for the person baptizing you, they play the part of the one burring you into that name. They officiate the fulfillment of what God has commanded. That is why it doesn't say they have to be a pastor or preacher. But in doing so they are in agreement with what has taken place. If they do not agree with the method or importance of that name, how can they be in agreement? Since you can't bury yourself, shouldn't this be an important part to think out, making sure the one burring you sees the scripture the way you do? If you believe it to be a Heaven or Hell issue I think I'd be rebaptized to make sure it was done right.
just a thought!

[Bro.Sam]

does anyone have an answer?


I will give you my opinion.

I believe the apostles, evangelists, elders, etc. in the early church did everything in Jesus' name.
I believe they prayed to the Father in Jesus' name.
I believe they expelled demons in Jesus' name.
I believe they healed the sick in Jesus' name.
I believe they baptized in Jesus' name.

However,
I believe the condition of the heart of the one being baptized is more important than:
the amount of water used,
the words spoken,
the condition of the heart of the one performing or administering the ritual.

[apostolictexas]

Here is a question I have been trying to get answered:
The Bible teaches us that we are saved by our faith in Jesus Christ. I think we would all agree to that.

It also teaches us that the confession of our faith, that is, we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord (Ro 10:8), is an integral part of becoming saved.

Now, to this point our salvation seems to be dependent upon how we respond and what we say.

Then we are baptized. We believe, that is, it is our faith that we are being baptized into Christ.

Now, here is my question: can the words that another person speaks nullify my faith?


As long as they do not "repeat"the words of Jesus but obey them..and I believe that "person"needs to be called of God..not just any joe doing the dunkin

[MawMaw]

Baptism in Jesus' Name is a necessary step of salvation. No other way will do.

[Inspired-Eyes]

The name Jesus absolutely is important and we need to take on that name.
We are saved by grace (through) * alive faith*.

IF there were a person who felt that it didnt really matter which way its done then why not just do it in Jesus name?
What would drive a person to reject being baptised in Jesus name?

I just dont get the concept of "it doesnt really matter how you are
baptised" for the reason......that if that person really really believes
that it doesnt really matter then why not just be baptised in Jesus name.
I personaly feel that there is something deeper that is causing a person
to not want to use the name of Jesus. Could be a number of reasons.
One could be lack of understanding of its importance.
Two could be rebellion and idea of I want to do it my way.
Three they want to please all man instead of pleasing God.
ect......


Baptism in Jesus name is so very important to me that It breaks my heart
to see people who would try to trample it as if it doesnt matter at all.
We are taking on the very name of Jesus and there is NO OTHER NAME
whereby we must be saved.
Gal 3:26 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=26&version=kjv#26)¶For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=27&version=kjv#27)For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=28&version=kjv#28)There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

P.S. The object of OUR faith is even more important that the faith itself.
Some Know not what they worship as the lady at the well.





LOVE AND BLESSINGS IN JESUS NAME

[Evangelist Paul]

The name Jesus absolutely is important and we need to take on that name.
We are saved by grace (through) * alive faith*.

IF there were a person who felt that it didnt really matter which way its done then why not just do it in Jesus name?
What would drive a person to reject being baptised in Jesus name?

I just dont get the concept of "it doesnt really matter how you are
baptised" for the reason......that if that person really really believes
that it doesnt really matter then why not just be baptised in Jesus name.
I personaly feel that there is something deeper that is causing a person
to not want to use the name of Jesus. Could be a number of reasons.
One could be lack of understanding of its importance.
Two could be rebellion and idea of I want to do it my way.
Three they want to please all man instead of pleasing God.
ect......


Baptism in Jesus name is so very important to me that It breaks my heart
to see people who would try to trample it as if it doesnt matter at all.
We are taking on the very name of Jesus and there is NO OTHER NAME
whereby we must be saved.
Gal 3:26 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=26&version=kjv#26)¶For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=27&version=kjv#27)For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=28&version=kjv#28)There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

P.S. The object of OUR faith is even more important that the faith itself.
Some Know not what they worship as the lady at the well.





LOVE AND BLESSINGS IN JESUS NAME

I guess the point I am making is that all of the baptized people I know believe in Christ, and believe they have been baptized into Christ and what another person says about it doesn't change what God has done in their heart and their faith in Christ alone for their salvation. That is why they were baptized.

[danacts238]

Acts 22:16 the first words that Jesus sent to Paul by Ananias And why tarriest thou?arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. Now if you saw Jesus like Paul did and you was made blind for 3 days do you not think that you wold believe and don't you think you would have ask Jesus to forgive you of everything you have not? still he was told to be baptized to wash way his sins
born once die twise
born trwise die once

[Inspired-Eyes]

I guess the point im trying to make is that when I married my husband and took on His name.......and the minister pronounced us to the crowd. He did not say I now present to you Mr. and Mrs. Husband. When we are baptised
in Jesus name we are taking on His name. I feel it would be doing someone
a great injustice to tell them that it doesnt really matter what you say when
you are baptised as long as you feel in your heart you are being baptised
in christ. In that case you could baptise them in the name of Budda, allah,
George, Sally, God, Father, husband, rushing mighty wind, son, spirit,
burning bush , cloud, word of God, angel of the Lord, small still voice, lamb,
prince of peace, lily of the valley, rose of sharon, I think you get the point.
IT TRUELY DOES MATTER THAT WE TAKE ON THE ACTUAL NAME OF JESUS.

[krazeeboi]

does anyone have an answer?

I believe in baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. I believe that in the early church, the name of Jesus Christ was called over the baptismal candidate to signify the One into Whom the candiate was reposing his faith. I believe the historical record and the original Greek bear this out.

However, we must also be honest with ourselves and recognize that there is not one biblical record of the words spoken during an actual baptism. The closest thing we have to that is Acts 22:16, where Paul is recounting his conversion experience. If you read carefully, you will notice that it is Ananias, the baptizer, who instructs Paul, the candidate, to call upon the name of the Lord. Nowhere does Ananias imply that he will do it for him. The problem in the Apostolic church is that we have too many baptisms where the only one calling on the Lord's name is the baptizer, and the candidate simply goes down a dry devil and comes up a wet one.

When it comes down to it, it is the faith of the person getting baptized that is the linchpin. And because that person is to place his/her faith in Jesus Christ, the name of Jesus should indeed be invoked, not as a magical formula, but in faith. It's sad that we've taken such a spiritually rich, powerful phrase, "in the name of Jesus," and have reduced it to a mystical formulation.

In the end, I do not believe that God would damn a soul to hell simply because the preacher recited the words of Jesus Himself over a person while baptizing him/her. And we should also realize that the invocation of the name of Jesus in baptism can most certainly occur even in the presence of the "official" formulaic statement according to the actual words of Matthew 28:19; the latter in no way negates the former, and, in my view, can actually strengthen and undergird the former. That scriptural passage in no way contradicts the invocation of the name of Jesus Christ in faith in the expression of baptism.

So, with all that said, I would encourage anyone to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, with both the candidate and the baptizer invoking His name so as to signify identity with Christ and His Church (the baptizer) and for spiritual circumsion and remission of sins (the candidate). It is biblical, apostolic practice. But I do not go to the other extreme and say that if the "official" Christological formula wasn't spoken over you by the baptizer that your baptism is null and void. This is why I believe there is variation in the baptismal Christological phraseology in Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5, and 22:16--the focus is the PERSON of Christ, not a technical sequence of words. In the end, it all has to do with where you repose your faith.

[Evangelist Paul]

I guess the point im trying to make is that when I married my husband and took on His name.......and the minister pronounced us to the crowd. He did not say I now present to you Mr. and Mrs. Husband. When we are baptised
in Jesus name we are taking on His name. I feel it would be doing someone
a great injustice to tell them that it doesnt really matter what you say when
you are baptised as long as you feel in your heart you are being baptised
in christ. In that case you could baptise them in the name of Budda, allah,
George, Sally, God, Father, husband, rushing mighty wind, son, spirit,
burning bush , cloud, word of God, angel of the Lord, small still voice, lamb,
prince of peace, lily of the valley, rose of sharon, I think you get the point.
IT TRUELY DOES MATTER THAT WE TAKE ON THE ACTUAL NAME OF JESUS.

If you are comparing "budda, allah, george....etc" to what I was saying you have missed my point. The point is the people I am talking about have placed their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, not these other people you mention. The way you are stating it is comparing apples to oranges.

Now, you may be saying that anyone who did not have the actual name of Jesus called over them at baptism is the equivalent of being baptized in one of those other names of false gods. If you are I strongly disagree with you.

[Inspired-Eyes]

I guess the point im trying to make is that when I married my husband and took on His name.......and the minister pronounced us to the crowd. He did not say I now present to you Mr. and Mrs. Husband. When we are baptised
in Jesus name we are taking on His name. I feel it would be doing someone
a great injustice to tell them that it doesnt really matter what you say when
you are baptised as long as you feel in your heart you are being baptised
in christ. In that case you could baptise them in the name of counsellor, wonderful, alpha omega, light of the world,
God, Father, husband, rushing mighty wind, son, spirit,
burning bush , cloud, word of God, angel of the Lord, small still voice, lamb,
prince of peace, lily of the valley, rose of sharon, I think you get the point.
IT TRUELY DOES MATTER THAT WE TAKE ON THE ACTUAL NAME OF JESUS.
I changed the words for you as to not get off the point.........I would never
compair the one true God to another, I was pointing out that the name does matter.
Just how you pointed out the differences in them right away. That
is how strongly I feel about the differences in the name.
I changed the words for you above......so are you saying that one could
be baptised in any of the above and that would be okay as long as we
believe we are being baptised into Christ? I see all of the above and I
do not see a name anywhere in there. I see discriptions. There is one name
given among men whereby we must be saved. I would encourage all to
be baptised in this name.....JESUS.
You will not regret it one second of your life.

[Evangelist Paul]

Actually what it says is baptism saves us in the same manner as the flood waters saved Noah and his family.

1 Peter 3:20-21

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Explain to us how the waters saved Noah, then, you will know how baptism saves us.

It is clear that baptism does not cleanse us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh) But baptism is an act of obedience, and, just like it was an act of obedience that saved Noah (and disobedience that caused the others to die in the water), so when we are obedient to the commands of Christ we also walk in salvation.

I find this passage to be a little confusing. First, Peter speaks of how Christ died for sins once and for all Then he moves on to talk about how Jesus preached to those who were disobedient in the day of Noah. Then, he moves into the Ark and how 8 people were saved by water.

I don't see how Noah and his family were saved by the water, it was the ark that saved them and it was the water that came as judgment on the world.

The way I can see that the water saved them was that it saved them from the influence of the world because the grace of God had already shut them up in the ark.

Now, before you get up in the air at how I explained this passage and start declaring "it means just what it says" you had better read the next verse:

v22 - Who has gone into heaven and is on the right hand of God" - If he is literally on the right hand of God then we OP's have a little explaining to do.

[Evangelist Paul]

Don't get me wrong; I think the name of Jesus should always be called over the person being baptized - I have never baptized someone when I didn't call the name of Jesus.

However; there are many people who trust Jesus alone for their salvation and believe they were being baptized into Christ when the person spoke the words that Jesus himself gave in Matthew 28:19.

Can you truly say you believe that a person is not saved who was acting in sincere faith that their sins were forgiven and that they are being baptized into Jesus Christ ?

[apostolictexas]

Don't get me wrong; I think the name of Jesus should always be called over the person being baptized - I have never baptized someone when I didn't call the name of Jesus.

However; there are many people who trust Jesus alone for their salvation and believe they were being baptized into Christ when the person spoke the words that Jesus himself gave in Matthew 28:19.

Can you truly say you believe that a person is not saved who was acting in sincere faith that their sins were forgiven and that they are being baptized into Jesus Christ ?


Jesus gave the words...but He did not say go and repeat my words..but OBSERVE...Jesus spoke in parables also..why did He not just come out and speak plainly?..I believe the Lord wants people to dig for his truth..not just the average casual somebody..but to the hungry calleth now..come and dine!

We have a pattern to follow...the apostles..though Jesus has supreme authority and His words are life.He gave his apostles the charge to go and teach all nations..baptizing them in the NAME!

The Apostles always baptized in his name [think most would agree]We are to follow their teachings and if a person does not follow no matter how sincere they can be lost.

Look at Cain and Abel..

Cain brought the fruit of the ground....Abel brought a blood offering!

Though Cain meant well and tried his best,He tried approaching God on His {cain]terms..God had a plan and Cain did not go by that plan! Abel did..

This should tell us...you can be religious but lost!!

[danacts238]

It is hard to see why people who say they love Jesus but yet they have a hard time excepten his name someone writes me a check and make it out to father I'm father but the bank wont cash it they got to use my name not my titles'Jesus tells us to all things in his name when a man gets married the bride gives up her family name and takes on the man's family name same way with the bride of Christ when he returns for his bride do you thing he wants a bride that will not have his name?

[krazeeboi]

Jesus gave the words...but He did not say go and repeat my words

And that's part of the problem here: we've made this whole issue a war of words, when a formula was the FARTHEST thing from the minds of both Jesus and the disciples in Matt. 28:29. We have yet to catch onto this.

We have a pattern to follow...the apostles..though Jesus has supreme authority and His words are life.

So, if Jesus has supreme authority, you really believe that God would send someone to hell because the preacher recited the words of Him who has supreme authority over someone while baptizing him?

The Apostles always baptized in his name [think most would agree]We are to follow their teachings and if a person does not follow no matter how sincere they can be lost.

The REAL question is, "What does it mean to be baptized in His name?" We've made it all about the words that the preacher speaks, and not faith or the sincerity of the heart of the one being baptized. We give those concepts lip service ("Oh yes, those matter too..."), but in actuality, we ascribe validity only to the words of the preacher. This is why it's my belief that lots of folks who were baptized with the words "in the name of Jesus Christ" spoken over them also have an invalid baptism.

This should tell us...you can be religious but lost!!

This applies to lots of Apostolics as well--even those who were baptized with the preacher saying the right combination of words (i.e., magic formula) over them.

[you know]

Jesus Christ name has to be mentioned
where we go wrong it's how well we live after we dry off.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


It's all in the NAME.
To put it bluntly: to use/invoke/call upon another name, is to DENY the NAME which God has honored!

"Wherefore God also has highly exalted him, and given him a NAME that is above every name that is named..." When did the Father exalt the son by giving him that NAME? Was it AFTER he was risen? No! It was before he was born: the Father KNEW the son would honor Him, and honored the son with the NAME: "That at the NAME of Jesus, every knee should bow...every tongue should confess...that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Everyone who confesses the NAME of the son glorifies God.

"...for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Salvation is for sinners, but is NOT of sinners. We are not saved solely because we were baptized, nor solely because we believed: but we are saved because the NAME was invoked in the waters of baptism. Peter did not declare for us to be baptized, but to be "...baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...: that is the NAME that is above every name. Surely, it is the blood that washed away the sins: but it is the NAME that applied the blood!

When the apostles suffered persecution, it was for his NAME. The religious men asked the apostles "By what power, or by what NAME have you done this?" After conferring among themselves, the religionists threatened the apostles: they DID NOT bar them from going to church, or fasting, or praying, or doing anything that would bring them obeisance. They simply agreed together to "...threaten them, that they speak henceforth no more to no man in that NAME."

Jesus prophesied that many would come in his name and declare: "Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your NAME? and in your NAME have cast out devils? and in your NAME done many wonderful works?" But the Lord will cast them out: NOT because they never KNEW him: but because he never knew them!

So are all sins remitted in the waters of baptism? No! Only the sins of those who have believed in his NAME in the waters of baptism.
Does it really matter who baptizes? Should anyone allow himself to be baptized by someone who does not believe in the NAME? It would be tantamount to agreeing in denying the NAME.

Church: beware of these modern preachers who make pretense of his NAME and draw the weak in the faith after them. Did not the Lord say by his apostles that he that transgresses the Law in one point is guilty of ALL the Law? So is the man that denies the NAME in one point: he denies the NAME in every implication.

Brother Villa

[truthseeker3139]

It is clear that baptism does not cleanse us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh) But baptism is an act of obedience, and, just like it was an act of obedience that saved Noah (and disobedience that caused the others to die in the water), so when we are obedient to the commands of Christ we also walk in salvation.

I find this passage to be a little confusing. First, Peter speaks of how Christ died for sins once and for all Then he moves on to talk about how Jesus preached to those who were disobedient in the day of Noah. Then, he moves into the Ark and how 8 people were saved by water.

I don't see how Noah and his family were saved by the water, it was the ark that saved them and it was the water that came as judgment on the world.

The way I can see that the water saved them was that it saved them from the influence of the world because the grace of God had already shut them up in the ark.

Now, before you get up in the air at how I explained this passage and start declaring "it means just what it says" you had better read the next verse:

v22 - Who has gone into heaven and is on the right hand of God" - If he is literally on the right hand of God then we OP's have a little explaining to do.

Actually that's the point I was trying to make, the waters of the flood did not save Noah, but in fact the ark did. The waters of the flood only saved Noah in the sense that his faith in believing what God had told him, and obeying what God told him to do was confirmed when the waters of the flood came. If the flood had not come, then his faith would not have been confirmed. It is our faith in God that saves us. Baptism is a confirmation of that faith.

[John Atkinson]

Church: beware of these modern preachers who make pretense of his NAME and draw the weak in the faith after them. Did not the Lord say by his apostles that he that transgresses the Law in one point is guilty of ALL the Law? So is the man that denies the NAME in one point: he denies the NAME in every implication.


Amen.

(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

(23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I am inclined to look at these verses in a more metaphoric sense which is applicable to the right now.

Which is simply many are coming saying "I am (of) Christ". And they come speaking in other tongues, they come with the illusion of revival, they come showing signs and wonders: healings, miracles.

And they are so convincing that they can, and have, in my time of ministry deceived preachers and saints I had thought of as part of the elect. I have been suprised at some of the folks who have followed some false Christ out into a desert place, where there is no water, only mirages.

Any doctrine that comes saying : "Jesus is over here, Baptism in Jesus name? Oh no, that is nice but not necessary, just believe and confess and you are saved."

Person follows that, they are following a false Christ and there is a pit up ahead.

I don't bend on this, I don't budge on this. And to my dying breath I will proclaim it.

What we label Acts 2:38 was part of the inaugural message to the Church. Thatwas the first Apostolic Pentecostal message ever preached to the Ekklesia. That message included Believing on Christ, and it included the only appropriate response to that belief. A response backed up by Philip in Samaria, Peter with Cornelius, Paul with the Disciples of John in Ephesus.

To echo the words of GT Haywood:

It is the light today
it is the water way,
Baptized in Jesus' Name!

Young and old,
repent of all your sins,
and the Holy Ghost shall enter in...
the evening time has come,
it's the truth that God and Christ are one!

No other way.

Hnovilla! Good to see you Bro!

[John Atkinson]

Another way of looking at it:
According to Romans 6:3-6 and Colosians 2:12 we are buried with him in baptism.

That burial occurs after we die out to sin through repentence. Getting Buried with Him is part of the Death to Life Process.

If we are never dead and buried? how can we rise? If we arent buried in His Name, How can we be buried with Him?

If we are dead but not buried, what are we but a stinking corpse that needs to be put away?

Way too many holes in the baptism is optional doctrine.

[Truthseeker]

The name Jesus absolutely is important and we need to take on that name.
We are saved by grace (through) * alive faith*.

IF there were a person who felt that it didnt really matter which way its done then why not just do it in Jesus name?
What would drive a person to reject being baptised in Jesus name?

I just dont get the concept of "it doesnt really matter how you are
baptised" for the reason......that if that person really really believes
that it doesnt really matter then why not just be baptised in Jesus name.
I personaly feel that there is something deeper that is causing a person
to not want to use the name of Jesus. Could be a number of reasons.
One could be lack of understanding of its importance.
Two could be rebellion and idea of I want to do it my way.
Three they want to please all man instead of pleasing God.
ect......


Baptism in Jesus name is so very important to me that It breaks my heart
to see people who would try to trample it as if it doesnt matter at all.
We are taking on the very name of Jesus and there is NO OTHER NAME
whereby we must be saved.
Gal 3:26 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=26&version=kjv#26)¶For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=27&version=kjv#27)For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=28&version=kjv#28)There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

P.S. The object of OUR faith is even more important that the faith itself.
Some Know not what they worship as the lady at the well.





LOVE AND BLESSINGS IN JESUS NAME

Where do you get "baptized into Christ" means water baptism?

[Inspired-Eyes]

From reading scriptures and basic understanding.
When people were baptised it was done in the water.
Pretty simple.Also I never said being baptized into Christ was a one part
act. Its the full act.....Repent, baptizim in Jesus name and infilling of holyghost.
Mat 3:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat003.html#6) And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mat 3:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat003.html#16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mar 1:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar001.html#5) And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mar 1:8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar001.html#8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 3:23 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn003.html#23) And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.


You can look up the rest if you like.There are more.
Act 1:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Act/Act001.html#5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 2:38 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Act/Act002.html#38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Love and blessings in Jesus name

[cjcook3]

There is an influential Evangelical Preacher who do a Sermon series "Ask Anything." He goes by the name Mark Driscoll. Please go to this website
http://askanything.marshillchurch.org/ and vote for the Baptism Question. If it get in the top 9, he'll hopefully reexamine the verses and change his theology ont he subject. You're allowed to vote 10x a DAY, so please VOTE

[cjcook3]

John Atkins I read your Post. I fully believe one must be Baptized, although I am not legalistic to the point f saying GOD can't save anyone outside of Baptism. If someone place Faith in Christ and don't get Baptized they are in a Grey area, and they are "God's Servant" whom God will Judge. Secondly, you said that anyone who does not proclaim the neccesity of Baptsim, are worshiping a False Christ. Did you know that the first 2 General Superintendent of the UPCI did not believe Baptism was neccesary. Are they going to Hell?

[mizpeh]

John Atkins I read your Post. I fully believe one must be Baptized, although I am not legalistic to the point f saying GOD can't save anyone outside of Baptism. If someone place Faith in Christ and don't get Baptized they are in a Grey area, and they are "God's Servant" whom God will Judge. Secondly, you said that anyone who does not proclaim the neccesity of Baptsim, are worshiping a False Christ. Did you know that the first 2 General Superintendent of the UPCI did not believe Baptism was neccesary. Are they going to Hell?
Does it matter what men says even if they are the GS of the UPCI? What does the Bible say? In two places it tells us that baptism SAVES us. How do you explain Mark and Peter's statements?

[John Atkinson]

John Atkins I read your Post. I fully believe one must be Baptized, although I am not legalistic to the point f saying GOD can't save anyone outside of Baptism. If someone place Faith in Christ and don't get Baptized they are in a Grey area, and they are "God's Servant" whom God will Judge. Secondly, you said that anyone who does not proclaim the neccesity of Baptsim, are worshiping a False Christ. Did you know that the first 2 General Superintendent of the UPCI did not believe Baptism was neccesary. Are they going to Hell?
I am well aware of the PCI/PAJC differences, however, I am not a member of the UPCI, nor do I base my beliefs on what these brethren believed, but rather on what the scripture says. There is just way too much about the necessity of the name and the significance of being baptized into Christ, and burial with him to be dismissed as optional.

I am not going to argue about who goes where over what in eternity. But as for me I must preach the Gospel, all of it. The only proper and scriptural response to the Gospel message is Repentance (a command), Baptism in the name of Jesus (a command) and to recieve the Holy Ghost (a gift, one that must be accepted in order to recieve it).

Anything past that is supposition without concrete scriptural backing.

[cjcook3]

My argument isn't aboout the importance or even neccecity of Baptism, it is about saying thouse who do not beleive in it's neccecity are worshipping a false Christ. My problem is, is that statement would include Gene Cook, and he was foremost person that started getting everyone rebaptized. I am just saying that we should be carefull how we label others, because if (a big IF) we are wrong, I would hate God to meet us out with the same Justice we wanted hom to meet out on others.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


Evangelist Paul:
"Can you truly say you believe that a person is not saved who was acting in sincere faith that their sins were forgiven and that they are being baptized into Jesus Christ ?"

Alot of folks are missing it, Beloved. It is not just the mere words, but the faith that some words have displaced. Listen:

"I marvel that you are so soon removed...unto ANOTHER Gospel:...which is not another...some...would pervert the Gospel of Christ...If ANY preach any other Gospel unto you than the one you have received, let him be accursed."

There is only ONE Gospel that can save: it must be proclaimed in the NAME of Jesus. That is the NAME of promise that God revealed first to Moses, and to the Israelites by his servants the prophets; and now to us, by His apostles and prophets.
To proclaim another NAME than that which has been revealed since the Day of Pentecost, is to proclaim another Gospel: for "...there is none other NAME under heaven..." Those who proclaim another name (the trinity), are simply preaching another Gospel: or trying, however unwittingly, to pervert the Gospel which the apostles and prophets received of the Lord, for our salvation.

What you seem to be saying is that faith in Jesus saves: which is correct. But a person who rejects the NAME of Jesus in the waters of baptism is denying the faith in his NAME! A repentant soul who believes that "message", is actually believing another gospel! Can anyone here say that there is ANOTHER Gospel that can save?

There are those who contend that the name(s) Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are equivalent to the NAME, Jesus: in effect saying that the NAME, Jesus, is "Father...Son..Holy Ghost". But the record states that the apostles, filled with the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, began baptizing int the NAME of Jesus Christ in Acts, chapters 2,8,10,and 19: signifying that the NAME of "...the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit...", is Jesus!

Brother Villa

[John Atkinson]

My argument isn't aboout the importance or even neccecity of Baptism, it is about saying thouse who do not beleive in it's neccecity are worshipping a false Christ. My problem is, is that statement would include Gene Cook, and he was foremost person that started getting everyone rebaptized. I am just saying that we should be carefull how we label others, because if (a big IF) we are wrong, I would hate God to meet us out with the same Justice we wanted hom to meet out on others.
My statement was directed towards the teachers of the false triune concept.
where did you get that i WANT people judged and lost? I don't recall posting that, And yes, biblically baptism ispart of the salvic process - take it away and their is no salvation.

Some of those guy believed the freinds of the bride doctrine. I don't.

if someone teaches that people can be saved without it,they are teaching a false gospel that will end with the unbaptized in hell. I say that weeping, not with gladness.

[Evangelist Paul]

His NAME is Jesus!


Evangelist Paul:
"Can you truly say you believe that a person is not saved who was acting in sincere faith that their sins were forgiven and that they are being baptized into Jesus Christ ?"

Alot of folks are missing it, Beloved. It is not just the mere words, but the faith that some words have displaced. Listen:

"I marvel that you are so soon removed...unto ANOTHER Gospel:...which is not another...some...would pervert the Gospel of Christ...If ANY preach any other Gospel unto you than the one you have received, let him be accursed."

There is only ONE Gospel that can save: it must be proclaimed in the NAME of Jesus. That is the NAME of promise that God revealed first to Moses, and to the Israelites by his servants the prophets; and now to us, by His apostles and prophets.
To proclaim another NAME than that which has been revealed since the Day of Pentecost, is to proclaim another Gospel: for "...there is none other NAME under heaven..." Those who proclaim another name (the trinity), are simply preaching another Gospel: or trying, however unwittingly, to pervert the Gospel which the apostles and prophets received of the Lord, for our salvation.

What you seem to be saying is that faith in Jesus saves: which is correct. But a person who rejects the NAME of Jesus in the waters of baptism is denying the faith in his NAME! A repentant soul who believes that "message", is actually believing another gospel! Can anyone here say that there is ANOTHER Gospel that can save?

There are those who contend that the name(s) Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are equivalent to the NAME, Jesus: in effect saying that the NAME, Jesus, is "Father...Son..Holy Ghost". But the record states that the apostles, filled with the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, began baptizing int the NAME of Jesus Christ in Acts, chapters 2,8,10,and 19: signifying that the NAME of "...the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit...", is Jesus!

Brother Villa

This is a late response to Brother Villa. Sorry, haven't checked in in a while.

The passage you referred to in Galatians is believed to be a reference to the legalists from Jerusalem who visited the church at Galatia and was preaching the gospel of coming under the law through circumcision. Paul Strongly refuted that doctrine.

The message Paul had preached to Galatia was salvation through faith in Christ. This is evident from chapter 3 where he contrasts salvation by faith with following the law. In verse 11 Paul writes, "Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "the righteous will live by faith." Then he writes, "He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might received the promise of the Spirit" (v14).

The very passage you quoted reinforces being justified by faith alone.

You make some very true statements, then come to some unfounded conclusions. I'll address the points where I differ:
1. "To proclaim another name... is to proclaim another gospel"
> I don't disagree with the statement - but your conclusion is based on a straw man; "another name...another gospel"
> I don't know of any Bible believing Christian, of any denomination, that believes salvation is in any other name than in Jesus. You believe baptism is the savior, not the name of Jesus that people believe in when they are baptized.
> You said that it is correct that a person is saved by faith in Jesus - then you deny them the salvation that comes through believing in that name.
> If a person believes in Jesus for the salvation, and receives the Christian baptism with the teaching that they are being baptized into Christ, how can as the baptizer, or anyone else deny them access to eternal by what you say? Either you believe we are saved by our faith or you believe we are saved by another man's words - which is it?

[zurnman]

It always seems that Christians of these days are following a less is more religion. The first church believers believed in Jesus, repented, was baptised (in Jesus name), recieved the Holy Ghost, spake in tongues, and recieved many other words to recieve salvation. Now you hear it said way to often to say a little I believe in Jesus prayer and then you are saved. It seems all that's needed now days for salvation is a tract. The Bible though is filled with words that pertain to salvation. Enduring to the end, obedience, believing, among many other words and yes baptism doth also now save us. 1 Peter 3:21

[Jehu]

Many have made baptism into an "outward sign of an inward faith." Baptism is not an "outward sign of an inward faith." That is not not bible. Baptism is more powerful than that.


Baptism is a commandment (Acts 10:47-48 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+10%3A47-48))
Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+2%3A38))
Baptism is where we flee from the wrath to come (Luke 3:7 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+3%3A7))
Baptism is from heaven (Mark 11:29-33 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Mark+11%3A29-33))
Baptism is how to wash away our sins (Acts 22:16 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+22%3A16))
Baptism is where we are regenerated/reborn (Titus 3:5)
Baptism is how we put on Christ (Galatians 3:27 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Galatians+3%3A27))
Baptism saves us from sin (Mark 16:16 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Mark+16%3A16); 1 Peter 3:20-21 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+3%3A20-21))
Baptism is the circumcision of Christ made without hands (Colossians 2:11-13 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Colossians+2%3A11-13))

[searching]

I miss the poster who started this thread.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


Evangelist Paul:

"The message Paul had preached to Galatia was salvation through faith in Christ. This is evident from chapter 3 where he contrasts salvation by faith with following the law. In verse 11 Paul writes, "Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "the righteous will live by faith." Then he writes, "He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit" (v14).
The very passage you quoted reinforces being justified by faith alone.
You make some very true statements, then come to some unfounded conclusions. I'll address the points where I differ:
1. "To proclaim another name... is to proclaim another gospel"
> I don't disagree with the statement - but your conclusion is based on a straw man; "another name...another gospel"
> I don't know of any Bible believing Christian, of any denomination, that believes salvation is in any other name than in Jesus. You believe baptism is the savior, not the name of Jesus that people believe in when they are baptized.
> You said that it is correct that a person is saved by faith in Jesus - then you deny them the salvation that comes through believing in that name.
> If a person believes in Jesus for the salvation, and receives the Christian baptism with the teaching that they are being baptized into Christ, how can as the baptizer, or anyone else deny them access to eternal by what you say? Either you believe we are saved by our faith or you believe we are saved by another man's words - which is it?"


1. The “legalists” were preaching that circumcision was part and parcel of the Gospel: which, of course it was not. What the Apostle Paul teaches in his epistles is that anyone who goes BACK to the Law, after receiving the Gospel, must fulfill ALL the Law. The ONLY reason no one could be justified by the Law, was because no one could fulfill it, save the Lord Jesus.
2. FAITH consists of believing on the promise(s) of God, which BEGINS with the Gospel: it is believing that “…all have sinned…”; that REMISSION of sins is in the waters of baptism, as the NAME of Jesus is invoked; and that as one believes and obeys, he WILL receive the Holy Spirit.
Faith is NOT solely conceding the existence of God: neither are we called to preach faith in faith. Rather, we are called to preach the Gospel. Faith in the Gospel will bring forth obedience, and unbelief will yield a hundred excuses.
This bears repeating: "A man cannot give what he doesn’t have."
3. You “don’t disagree” that “…to proclaim another NAME is to proclaim another Gospel.”? When why refer to it as “a straw man”? Listen to the Lord’s witnesses:
John: “But these are written, that you might believe…and that believing you might have life through his NAME.”
Peter: “…there is none other NAME under heaven given among men…”
Paul: “And whatsoever you do in word or in deed, do all in the NAME of the Lord Jesus…”
4. “You believe baptism is the Savior…” No, Beloved. Jesus is the ONLY savior, and I believe him. Have you not heard? Jesus said, “He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.” Has anyone else seen His promise there? He promises to save (SHALL BE SAVED) the person that “…believes AND is baptized…”! And what is the New Testament record of everyone that was baptized? Why, they submitted to the waters of baptism in his NAME!
5. “…you deny them the salvation…” Talk about a straw man! Here I am, preaching the Gospel through his NAME: I preach repentance in the NAME of Jesus; remission of sins in the waters of baptism in his NAME; and receiving the Holy Spirit in his NAME. Tell me, then: can anyone be saved and deny the NAME of the one who “…shall save his people from their sins…” in ANY situation? Or can anyone take “…the NAME of the Lord thy God in vain...”, and live?
You see, Beloved, it is not I that would deny salvation: but I offer it in the NAME of Jesus.
6. If a person will truly “believe in Jesus for salvation”, he will believe the Gospel that the Lord Jesus taught his apostles and prophets, saying: “He that receives you, receives ME…” The Gospel that I preach corresponds to the Gospel that the Lord taught his disciples! Also, the baptism that I baptize is the ONLY Christian baptism. Or to you: what is the “Christian baptism”?
7. I believe that we are saved by the same faith in the Gospel that the apostles and prophets of the Lord Jesus have witnessed to the world. Any other “gospel” comes from the mouth of ”… a thief and a robber...”


Brother Villa

[onegod1]

:fish2:I certainly give thanks to the Lord Jesus for my Christian heritage. Just to give you a little background, my family has actually been in the United States (both sides) about 60 years. Originally, our immediate family was Roman Catholic (Irish). My brother and sister remember the Catholic parish (which began in my great Aunt's living room), but I was SO young when my folks converted to the Holiness (non-Pentecostal) Movement I don't remember. As a young person, at the invitation of a school chum, I attended services at a church called 'Faith Tabernacle' -- a Pentecostal Church of God. In fact, at that time, it was the largest congregation in the PCOG, and the Pastor's father was one of the men responsible for the formation of the PCOG. I don't remember what the Evangelist (guest preacher) preached, as I was under very heavy Holy Ghost conviction. When the Altar Invitation was given, I responded, as it was in my heart to rid myself of sin and turn to the Lord. I cried and repented for what seemed like hours -- and I physically felt the burden of sin roll off -- and the church shouted! (this was 'back in the day' when trinitarian Pentecostals shouted, danced in the Spirit, ran the aisles, marched, and lived a standard of holiness that would put today's Oneness people to shame).

Well, Holiness wasn't new to me as I was raised in that. Neither were the "Holy Ghost interruptions" (though in the Pentecostal services there were certainly a lot more!). Two weeks after repenting, I received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost with the initial, physical evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit gave the utterance (the PCOG believed that then and they still do) -- and the saints went wild!!

The "side" of Pentecost that church is part of is (like I still am to this day) Restorationist. Not only are we as Christians charged with taking the gospel to the lost world, we are also to take these "new" (not really new, but "old Truth restored") revelations to an anemic, worldly Church that has lost It's way.


We were taught that the Modern Pentecostal Movement was the Church of Jesus Christ restored to Apostolic times -- and the manner in which one gains entrance into the Church is through REPENTANCE, BAPTISM, and the reception of the HOLY GHOST according to Acts 2:4.

When the Lord led me to a Oneness church, the first message I heard was on water baptism. At that time, I could have never explained to anyone the Mighty God in Christ, though in the Bible I saw that every time people were water baptized in the Christian Church it was in the name of Jesus. It stands to reason that if I was to be a "Bible Christian" like I claimed to be, I would take on the name of Jesus (only) in water baptism since that's the way it was done in the Bible!

(After a special time of prayer and fasting, the significance of Jesus' name "clicked in" and thank God I was able to accept the Revelation of Jesus Christ without question!)

So I was certainly surprised when an Assemblies of God gal that I know intimated to me that water baptism was an "outward sign of an inward change"!! I guess that's what's meant by the term "Baptistic" (?) I was shocked to find out that now, most (trinitarian) Pentecostal groups believe this! Aren't we as ardent Evangelicals more knowledgeable about Scripture than this? Is the Bible just 'sounding pretty' when It states that "Baptism doth also now save us?" (1 Peter 3:21) And Mark the sixteenth chapter where It says that "...he that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved?" These Scriptures were drilled into me BEFORE Oneness.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


onegod1:
"Is the Bible just 'sounding pretty' when It states that "Baptism doth also now save us?" (1 Peter 3:21) And Mark the sixteenth chapter where It says that "...he that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved?" These Scriptures were drilled into me BEFORE Oneness. "


The Lord is faithful, and he still is calling his chosen out of the confusion. At any rate, I am a witness to THAT fact!

Beloved, you have expressed MY sentiments as I first felt them more than 25 years ago. It is surprising how very few Ministers actually listen. Too many treat the congragations as thier personal little feifdoms, instead of the Church. I am certainly happy that the Lord had his eyes upon you, also, and brought you tho the revelation of his NAME. I am glad you made it home.


Brother villa