Christian Rock/Hip Hop/Rap

[Jonah]

The Lord has been dealing with me over the last few months about music in the church. Particularly what we use for "worship" music. A few years ago pastor White (I wish I new which pastor White) did a series at the youth congress in Atlanta on christian rock music. I was wondering where I could get a copy of the video of that service or any other similar information for the research that I'm working on.

[MawMaw]

How is God dealing with you about the music? Do you like the rock/hiphop/rap style of worship or you feel it's not quite right?

[Jonah]

Whenever I hear it anymore the Lord starts talking to me about the worshipers of baal. They had all their action, energy and noise but no god. He has also had em paying attention to some of the spirit of the music and asks me what is being moved the spirit or the flesh.

[angelindesguise]

It would be very wise to listen to those still small voices and be sensitive to them. You can over-ride those convictions if you aren't careful.

Blessings,

[Jonah]

I do, and have been. However it makes it dificult when you walk into worship service and the music starts and all of a sudden your not in church but a rock concert.

[angelindesguise]

You know that many argue that it's ok to listen to this type music, they say they're trying to reach the youth. I agree that they're trying to bring the world into the church. and not trying to save people from the world. There's a difference, and many disagree with what I believe. If we use this to get them in church, how can we teach them that hip hop, rock and worldly music is wrong after we get them in church by using it?

[Jonah]

When I first came into the church the prayer room was the most important place in the church. It was not uncommon th find it almost full at least two hours before worship service was supposed to begin. That was 17 years ago. Since then I've been watching as the church slowly, maybe not so slowly, moves away from the old ways that worked so well for those that went before us. Or as the bible describes it: Removing the ancient landmarks. People really do not want to come into a church that is just like the world they want to come to a place where they can receive a touch from the almighty that changes them at the core of there souls. I do not understand why the wheat, Aposalics, have to try to be like the weeds that grow all around us in order to reach the lost. Jesus said "this kind comes not but by prayer and fasting". That not only applies to the casting out of devils but to everything in the kingdom of God. I do so badly want to see an old fashioned move of God that brings the entire congregation to its knees before a Holy, Righteous, Merciful and loving God. Where the presence of his Holiness is so powerful that we cann't even speak for the glory of his presence.

I'm sorry if I've been complaining. I just love my God and his people and it hurts to what men are doing for the sake of "reaching the lost".

[MawMaw]

When I first came into the church the prayer room was the most important place in the church. It was not uncommon th find it almost full at least two hours before worship service was supposed to begin. That was 17 years ago. Since then I've been watching as the church slowly, maybe not so slowly, moves away from the old ways that worked so well for those that went before us. Or as the bible describes it: Removing the ancient landmarks. People really do not want to come into a church that is just like the world they want to come to a place where they can receive a touch from the almighty that changes them at the core of there souls. I do not understand why the wheat, Aposalics, have to try to be like the weeds that grow all around us in order to reach the lost. Jesus said "this kind comes not but by prayer and fasting". That not only applies to the casting out of devils but to everything in the kingdom of God. I do so badly want to see an old fashioned move of God that brings the entire congregation to its knees before a Holy, Righteous, Merciful and loving God. Where the presence of his Holiness is so powerful that we cann't even speak for the glory of his presence.

I'm sorry if I've been complaining. I just love my God and his people and it hurts to what men are doing for the sake of "reaching the lost".


I don't take your comments as "complaining" brother. You sound like a person sensitive to the Spirit. Too many have become slowly "anesthetized" by the enemy of our soul...growing numb, and no longer feeling the convictions from God. I don't want to go to sleep in these last days......may we all shake ourselves and be very very aware of what's going on. Oh, stir me Lord!!
God bless you.

[Jonah]

Back to the origional subject.

One of the things that Jesus has shown me concerning theses types of music is how the cd's/tapes are put togeter. There may be 10 songs in a set, but only one and maybe two are worth listening to and will truely touch the spirit of God. The rest of them are trash. This is the same lie that our adversary used in the garden. He gave Eve one big lie but added just a little bit of truth to it to make the lie look like it wasn't so bad. It's the same way with music. He puts in just enough good that we will by the cd/tape for those but the problem is what do you do with the trash. Is the good worth it if you have to dig through the garbage to get it.

We will crucify people for watching television because of the garbage thats on it but what about the music we listen to. After all our adversary was the minister of music in his preveous place of employment. So why would it not surprise us that he can take a drunk, a adulterer, a drug adict or anyone else and get them to right a beautiful song of worship to God after all that is what he did in heaven

[pewjumper]

You're probably referring to Pastor Doug White. He has preached extensively on the issue.

[MawMaw]

I have a very old preaching tape by a Bro TG McNeely....man did he ever preach against the so called "christian?" rock! I actually found that tape in a house that we once rented....I was much younger and I believe the Lord let me find that tape to hear. :) I think the man may be apostolic? but not sure....but man did he preach!!

[angelindesguise]

You're probably referring to Pastor Doug White. He has preached extensively on the issue.

Do you know if Bro. Doug White preached at Mississippi Campmeeting 2006? I love to hear him preach, he's gooooood. ;)

[Jonah]

Thanks, I will contact him and see if he can help me.

[ddc101]

Hey I would love to watch that.Anybody consider sending it to Brother Rutledge for the preaching site?
MawMaw what about that cassette? Brother can get it into an audio file and others can listen?
I love Brother McNeeleys preaching.He has an all time favorite sermon of mine....Trophies of Hell.

[MawMaw]

Hey I would love to watch that.Anybody consider sending it to Brother Rutledge for the preaching site?
MawMaw what about that cassette? Brother can get it into an audio file and others can listen?
I love Brother McNeeleys preaching.He has an all time favorite sermon of mine....Trophies of Hell.

So, Bro McNeeley is an apostolic preacher? :) I had never heard of him. I would be glad to send that tape to Bro Rutledge....I just have to locate it....I have sooooooooo many preaching tapes! :spin: Sometimes I just radomly pick one to listen to....and wow.....it's usually just what I needed to hear. I love how God does things like that. :)

God bless!

[zealwriter]

A Pastor friend of mine told me many years ago now that "there is Christian Music and then there is Church music... and not everything that is considered Christian music (unfortunately) is fit for the Church".

[bbodarc]

This is a very sensitive subject for me. I am a 24 year old, Holy Ghost-filled, church-raised man. I also produce/record music as a hobby. My primary interest is urban music, to include "rap". I will be the first to say that a lot of rap, and Christian rock songs have no place in the church, and our young people have no buisness listening to it. But on the other hand, I think it depends on what Spirit the music was recorded in. I have come out of Spirit-filled prayer meetings with a friend of mine, turned on some instrumental tracks to freestyle rap to (a type of rap that isn't written, you just say rap what comes to mind as the music plays), and had to stop because the power of God was all over us so strong that we started talking in tongues. I also play the drums, and have had jam sessions that were very "rocky", but you could feel God in our midst. You have to remember, a lot of the "Christian" rock/rap artists with cd's are in the Christian genres because they couldn't grow a fanbase to sell secular. The Bible says to try the spirits to see if they be of God. Of course, there is a boundry. No Holy Ghost filled individual should be listening to "Christian" hardcore, death metal, gangsta rap, etc... (believe me, there are such things). But, I think that God can use many types of music to reach people. Before we get so hung up on our self-righteousness, let us remember that many of our "sacred" hymns were English bar tunes, with re-written words. And a lot of the same people that are opposed to these genres of Christian music, listen to southern or country gospel. Whats the difference? Like I say, try the spirits, and judge on a case-by-case basis.

[angelindesguise]

And then after we try the spirits,and then do we do what's right in our own eyes? Maybe just because that's the type music we enjoy.

[bbodarc]

Ummmmm..... no. Don't be ridiculous.

[MawMaw]

It's really not ridiculous :) We all loved different genres of music before we were filled with the Holyghost. Just stay prayed and fasted up so that the "worldly" persuasions won't overtake you.

[zealwriter]

As for what one would play in church (music that is) I think that an individual should ask themselves "would I, I mean seriously (not based on one's fondness of the music but based on the appropriateness of what the music represents in style and spirit), perform this before the ever holy presence of GOD?"

There are certain types of music that carry a spirit full of passion but VOID of CHRIST. We can put whatever lyrics to it we please but the spirit came at the conception of the musical style. If birthed out of a contrary spirit how can it bring His people to worship?

Worship is a sacred thing and it should not, in my opinion, be dressed with things that simply make our heads bop.



Again, there's Christian music and then there is music appropriate for the church worship service.

I'm such a prude. lol...

[g_moses]

This is a very sensitive subject for me. I am a 24 year old, Holy Ghost-filled, church-raised man. I also produce/record music as a hobby. My primary interest is urban music, to include "rap". I will be the first to say that a lot of rap, and Christian rock songs have no place in the church, and our young people have no buisness listening to it. But on the other hand, I think it depends on what Spirit the music was recorded in. I have come out of Spirit-filled prayer meetings with a friend of mine, turned on some instrumental tracks to freestyle rap to (a type of rap that isn't written, you just say rap what comes to mind as the music plays), and had to stop because the power of God was all over us so strong that we started talking in tongues. I also play the drums, and have had jam sessions that were very "rocky", but you could feel God in our midst. You have to remember, a lot of the "Christian" rock/rap artists with cd's are in the Christian genres because they couldn't grow a fanbase to sell secular. The Bible says to try the spirits to see if they be of God. Of course, there is a boundry. No Holy Ghost filled individual should be listening to "Christian" hardcore, death metal, gangsta rap, etc... (believe me, there are such things). But, I think that God can use many types of music to reach people. Before we get so hung up on our self-righteousness, let us remember that many of our "sacred" hymns were English bar tunes, with re-written words. And a lot of the same people that are opposed to these genres of Christian music, listen to southern or country gospel. Whats the difference? Like I say, try the spirits, and judge on a case-by-case basis.


I would agree. In the secular world, there are certain kinds of rap which are "pleasing" to the ear. And let me explain. Gangsta rap and the like are rubbish. But there is another kind that speaks to a person's intellect. There is a "street poetry" out there that isn't vulgar or profane. And it does two things. It's talks about the problems of the world and it shows how those problems affect a person's existence.

It's this type of music, when infused with a love for God, that can truly be beautiful. But that's just my opinion.

[bbodarc]

It's really not ridiculous :) We all loved different genres of music before we were filled with the Holyghost. Just stay prayed and fasted up so that the "worldly" persuasions won't overtake you.

Yes indeed. Like I said, we must try the spirits. Instead, must people just condemn others for not having the same preferences as them. I ask, where are the southern/country gospel musical styles influenced from? Same as the rock and hip-hop styles. They reflect a genre that is popular in the...... (GASP) "world." For the most part, the spirit the artist was influenced by when he wrote/performed the song, is reflected in the music. It doesn't take a long time to discern.

[angelindesguise]

I don't necessarily think it's the fact that most gospel music comes from bar room music. What I am referring to is this new beat of the music of today, the head banging type music, the frenzied beat, that is what I am referring to. My grandson was telling me about the words to some of the modern day lyrics, and what they are really relaying when you play them backwards. I have always heard that there were backward messages in some of the songs. I am very aware of this, because I allowed my children to play this type music before I came into the truth and came to the realization that there is no good in heavy metal, rock, rap and none of the so called music that our youth are listening to today. It teaches them about violence, brutality, elicit sexual activity and much much more. I say this type music has no place in our Apostolic Churches today. You can not bring the worldly music into our churches to save the world. What are you saving them from when you use it to draw the youth? In my opinion we are only letting the world creep into the churches. We are suppose to be a light set upon a hill, a new creature, old things are passed away and behold all things are become new. We need to let loose of the world.

[RandyWayne]

My grandson was telling me about the words to some of the modern day lyrics, and what they are really relaying when you play them backwards. I have always heard that there were backward messages in some of the songs.Oh please! Not the backward masking thing again! LOL
Since this whole scare was started by a few frenzied evangelists during the mid 80's the only records that do it now are done so their fans have something to find. Even the group Petra put a simple message in their song "Witchhunt" (aptly named) so people like Jimmy Swaggert would have something to rail against.

[angelindesguise]

Randy Wayne,
Preachers don't have to dig to find things to preach against, it's all right out there in the open, because people today no longer know how to blush, mainly because they have no shame. They are so blatant with their sin and premiscuity, the person who has to see them in that sin is more ashamed than the one doing the deed. Sin is still sin, and wrong is still wrong. God has not changed his message at all.

[RandyWayne]

I should have elaborate on the point I just made a bit more.
The old joke is why on Earth does someone need to spend hours and days listening to records backwards, when they can spend seconds and minutes listening FORWARDS?
The whole backwards masking thing was a distraction that made fools out of a whole lot of people and robbed them of all credibility in the eyes of the world.

"What are you looking for the devil for? Look for God instead!" was the backward message Petra put on their song. And even though the message was clearly aimed at the folks who spent their lives looking for such things, those who "discovered" it never understood that it was a joke.... aimed at them.

A great example are the demonic messages found when playing Slim Whiteman backwards..... I am trying to find it and will post it when I do.

[angelindesguise]

Young folks today, gotta try to show the old folks how wrong they are and how much smarter and how much more knowledge the young folks have than the old folks do.
I think knowledge comes with some experience and living and learning, and when you reach my age, I tend to think you will be in agreement that if you could have gotten some of those young people to have listened to you years ago, you could have saved then from some unnecessary bumps, bruises and heartaches that they could have avoided had they listened. But, just wait, wisdom comes with age trust me.


I don't play any music backwards, I don't have the know how to do that. My grandson I mentioned had just come form a week at teen camp and it had been brought up by some of the speakers. He even told me who the singers were, and what the backward massage said. I tend to believe what he was saying.

[RandyWayne]

Ok, I need to revisit this (editing after about 20 minutes). IF I just blew up over nothing, the I am sorry and please disregard AND I will edit the above out.

Consider it edited.

[angelindesguise]

I had quoted my own post only because I added text, it wasn't exactly what I intended to do, but instead of changing it, I just left it and logged off. Now I have removed the quote marks, so it doesn't appear that I am purposly pointing a finger at you. My post was not meant as a jab.

I am 61 years old. I have a daughter who is almost 41, a son 38, and a son who is 32.

[RandyWayne]

And please accept my apology for overreacting.

[bbodarc]

Young folks today, gotta try to show the old folks how wrong they are and how much smarter and how much more knowledge the young folks have than the old folks do.
I think knowledge comes with some experience and living and learning, and when you reach my age, I tend to think you will be in agreement that if you could have gotten some of those young people to have listened to you years ago, you could have saved then from some unnecessary bumps, bruises and heartaches that they could have avoided had they listened. But, just wait, wisdom comes with age trust me.


I don't play any music backwards, I don't have the know how to do that. My grandson I mentioned had just come form a week at teen camp and it had been brought up by some of the speakers. He even told me who the singers were, and what the backward massage said. I tend to believe what he was saying.

Not all of us. A lot of young people I know (including myself) have nothing but respect, and admiration for what the "old timers" have been through. With that said, times HAVE changed. While the Word of God remains the absolute same, God does use different ways of dealing with people, based on the era they live in. It happened all the way throught he Bible.

My issue is, no one has yet to explain to me why its acceptable to sing worldly songs that have had the lyrics re-written, as our "sacred" hymns, but SOME forms of Christian rock/hip-hop are not okay. In no way am I saying that all of it is acceptable. The spirit of the artist will show through in the music, good or bad.

Try the spirits, to see if they be of God.

[bbodarc]

I am very aware of this, because I allowed my children to play this type music before I came into the truth and came to the realization that there is no good in heavy metal, rock, rap and none of the so called music that our youth are listening to today. It teaches them about violence, brutality, elicit sexual activity and much much more. I say this type music has no place in our Apostolic Churches today.

With that said, what about rap or rock that has edifying lyrics? It doesn't teach violence, brutality, elicit sexual activity, etc... Sure, music in our worship services should be used to incite people to have a deeper relationship with God. But I challenge any individual that says you can only listen to music that edifies or mentions Jesus specifically in every song, to justify doing other activities such as:

Riding a 4-wheeler
Taking a walk
Shopping for clothes
Chatting with a friend on the phone
Knitting/sewing
Hunting
Gardening
ETC...

None of the above necessarily edify or glorify God. And, they were things that we enjoyed "in the world" as well. So whats the difference?

As I continue to say, try the spirit of the particular song. If you don't feel right about it, don't listen to it. There is a lot of garbage out there, but don't judge the whole genre by what you hear on the radio.

And what about the Southern/Country styles that most Apostolics feel its okay to listen to? What is the difference between the Christian/Secular versions of those genres? I have yet to see anyone present a reason why its okay to listen to a "Christian" version of bluegrass/country/southern, but not a "Christian version of rock or rap (within reason of course, they are wide genres).

[bbodarc]

I don't necessarily think it's the fact that most gospel music comes from bar room music.


I stand corrected. I should not have said "bar music", however it is a FACT that some hymns were written to the tune of other popular songs from their day:

(Source: Manfred F. Bukofzer, 'Popular and Secular Music in England', inThe New Oxford History of Music 3: Ars Nova and the Renaissance, 1300-1540, ed. Anselm Hughes and Gerald Abraham (London: Oxford University Press, 1960), p. 108.):

Francis (Fanny) Crosby was one of the most prolific hymn writers ever, having penned the lyrics to something like 9,000 hymns, including many that are still favorites today including "Blessed Assurance", "Pass Me Not Oh Gentle Savior", and "Safe in the Arms of Jesus." One biography of Fanny Crosby (ISBN 1-55748-731-6) adds this tidbit:

"By the early 1870s, she was well on her way to becoming the queen of hymn writers. Fanny often matched her poems to familiar tunes. An example is "We Thank Thee, Our Father," written to the melody of the famous "Adeste Fidelis." She set poems to Scottish and Welsh airs and used tunes by Stephen Foster."

Furthermore, the founder of another very influential evangelical denomination used parodies, too. William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, an extremely evangelical organization that did much to help the poor and the drunks in the streets, used the music of popular tunes for hymns. In the biography, "William and Catherine Booth: Founders of the Salvation Army," by Helen K. Hosier, it states the following:

"Satan would have to be battled within his own strongholds, and any means was justifiable, William decided, if it would attract sinners to listen to the message of salvation ... Thus it was that as the work grew, the music and street parades attracted increasing crowds of people who scorned the regular churches. 'Why should the devil have all the best tunes?' Williamreplied when chided for appropriating music of popular tunes for his hymns ... "

"The saying that 'the devil has no right to all the good tunes' has been attributed to both William Booth and Charles Spurgeon. But it was George Scott Railton, who was to become William's lieutenant general in 1873 and was well-known as an author and songwriter, who concluded an article 'About Singing' (1874) with this impassioned plea: 'Oh, let us rescue this precious instrument from the clutches of the devil, and make it, as it may be made, a bright and lively power for good!'"

The people in the Salvation Army weren't the first to use secular music for sacred purposes, though. Note the following:

"[The absence of contrast between 'secular' and 'sacred' styles of music in the Middle Ages] 'can be shown simply by the observation that a secular song, if given a set of sacred words, could serve as sacred music, and vice versa. Only recently has it been recognized how frequently such interchange took place, and the more we learn about medieval music, the more important it becomes. The practice of borrowing a song from one sphere and making it suitable for use in the other by the substitution of words is known as "parody" or contrafactum.'

[myname1]

Some of you might have a heart attack if you would see they way I play guitar in my church! But I am not doing it for you or anyone else at my church... but God ONLY.

I can say, however, that the people of the church I attend (Including my pastor and bishop) seem to love it. So far, if I miss sevrices and cannot play, they tell me they missed my playing.

A few months ago, God gave me a vision of a concert I attended when I was about 17 or 18 years old....(I am 44 years old now) In that vison....I saw my younger self and what I must have looked like the night I attended a Molly Hatchet southern rock concert in Memphis,TN.

I don't remember personally because I was so stoned out of my head....but I remember my friends recounting the story of how at that concert I stumbled tword the front where they had two large bass speakers on either side of the stage. (this is the part I don't remember until I woke up later on in the car that night) But my friends say that I was stumbling tword the bass speaker and I fell over on it and passed out! (I had so much drugs anbd alcohol in my body,it was a wonder I did not die)

The PA man for the concert was angry and told my friends to get me off of there! (Again,I was passed out so I can only tell you what they said) So they put me in the car and I did not wake up till we were near Jackson,TN where I used to live and they told me this story.

But God showed me that boy streched over that bass speaker and asked me this question.....he said..."He gave his all to his god...can you afford to do any less??" I had to say no.... I cannot afford to give less than my best for God.

And everytime I strap on my guitar at church...I now think of that vision, I do not do it for anyone but him. And if the pastor or Bishop of my church told me something was wrong with my playing, I would stop it in a heartbeat....but I HAVE discussed this with them and they are fine with it and God has not convicted me about it, so I just go on and do what I do!

You see folks, as has been pointed out...some of the music you call "sacred" also had it's roots from the country music that was popular way back when artists like hank williams was singing in bars. That does NOT mean that christian music came from a bar...it means that the STYLE of music back then mirrored some of the stuff that country artists did. Just as todays music mirrors some of the music today. Is there garbage out there SURE, but there was garbage back then TOO!

In the 1960's for example there was a group known as the statesmen that did "My sweet Lord" which if you LISTEN to the lyrics closely...you would know that John Lennon (former beatle) was referring to HARE KRISHNA...NOT Jesus in that song! Becuse the backup vocals say "Hare" Hare" and "Krishna" Krishna" as John Lennon sings "My sweet Lord"! I did not know this until it was pointed out to me by someone else and sure enough near the end of the song....those lyrics are sung by the backup vocalists!

Now....does that mean the statesmen meant to sing about Hare Krishna? NO! They were just putting a song on their album they thought would lift up Jesus AND...get this now...WAS A VERY POPULAR SECULAR SONG AT THE TIME!

Look, I am not some kid...I have years of experience when I say this and have been around pentecost for over 26 years....but I DO think that sometimes, people are like the pot calling the kettle black, when back in the days of the hymns, some of that music was mirroring the style of the music in those times.

I was an old rocker from the 70's until I got filled with the Holy Ghost....I never played in a rock band but have listened to plenty of rock music. I only played guitar when I got in church in the 80's!

But I can tell you this.....I think far too often in pentecost, people get personal conviction mixed up with what everyone SHOULD believe as a whole. Now, all that being said....does that mean there is some music christians should stay away from? OF COURSE!

I used to be a huge AC/DC fan before I got the Holy Ghost....but I don't have any of their albums anymore and that is true for a lot of the music I used to listen to.

But what I am saying is, because a certian style of music does not fit in with YOUR taste may not necessarily mean it is of the devil! I had a very hard time even using distortion in my guitar when I first started out playing, because I thought it was ALL bad and could never be used for anything but rock and roll. But in the 1980's all of that changed when I saw Nate Sabin playing at The Pentecostals of Alexandria and he used distortion, but used it in a way that actually complimented what they played! So I found my own style of playing and was able to work it into our services.

Like I said, if I felt any conviction about what I am doing and belived it was evil or if my LEADERSHIP felt it was wrong, I would stop it in a heartbeat and never play it again.

But I am sometimes reminded of a saying that I heard a overzealous preacher say. He said..."If you can't play a BANJO to it, it AIN'T GOSPEL MUSIC"....well someone pointed out that you can play DIXIE music on a banjo and that does not make it Gospel!

To the original poster, if you feel convicted about a form of music personally, then you need to listen to what your conviction is saying...but TRY THE SPIRITS... TO SEE WEATHER THEY ARE OF GOD. If it is God, then he will let you know and you can go on from there.

But all I am saying is, don't put everything and everyone in one basket when it comes to a musical STYLE.

[bbodarc]

But all I am saying is, don't put everything and everyone in one basket when it comes to a musical STYLE.[/quote]

Good post, brother! :tup:

This is what I've been trying to say all along. I have yet to see anyone post an explanation of how southern/country gospel genres are any different than their secular counterparts. Can anyone who listens to those genres explain their views?

[g_moses]

They really can't. Latino churches have music that ranges from tropical to norteno. I don't see why bringing something the world has claimed and claiming it for God is wrong.

[RandyWayne]

Thats an excellent point and one I normally bring up in discussions on music but haven't for a while.

While it is a valid question to ask if only music composed and written in the first half of the 20th century is sacred and must be sung out of hymnals, it is also valid to ask if the Latin church a country away ALSO needs to sing out of that same hymn book.
Someone I can't imagine them singing Free At Last while Sis Mildred belts it out on the organ.....
Neither can I see them singing the old Jewish songs so popular in church..... Or maybe they do with a bit of that spicy salsa flavor. :)

[Jonah]

To all who have posted to this thread. It was not my intention to start a holy war over this topic. I asked a simple question about information on a particular subject that God was dealing with me about. I know that emotions run high on this subject and everyone has there own opinion and I'm not trying to convince of change anyone.

Contrary to popular belief you have to check what is being moved when sertain types of music are played. Is it your flesh or your spirit. Jesus isn't looking for music that moves your flesh or your emotions, even though those are involved in the act of worship, he is looking for music that moves the spirit. I have found that "Rock" music even "Christian Rock" only moves the flesh and does not bring a person to that place where the heart cries out "I Love You" in a way like you would say it to your wife.

If the hard beat of "Christian rock" or the pounding bass beat of "Christian Rap/Hip Hop" was so good at stiring the spirit then why don't we ever see it used at the altercall? The reason is, and even the devil knows, that if you want to touch God you cry with a tender voice and not a hard beat "I Love you Jesus"

[Jonah]

By the way, I did get a copy of the video that I was looking for. The problem is that only the first five minutes playes so I have to try again. If I'm successful I will be happy to try to copy it here for anyone who wants to see it.

The preacher was Brother Douglas White of Tesxas. I tried to contact him but have not had any success reaching him.

[Jonah]

I have recently picked up a set of DVD's dealing with the subject of hip-hop. The place that I was able to find it was a ministry called ex-ministries. I'm not sure who he is affiliated with.

[yael]

I think a big problem is that alot of people dont come to church to worship God - they come to church to be entertained.
Thus this kind of music now flourishes inside the sanctuary.

[nahkoe]

I think a big problem is that alot of people dont come to church to worship God - they come to church to be entertained.
Thus this kind of music now flourishes inside the sanctuary.

I don't quite get that. I mean, I know it happens...I *get* that. But I don't get the mentality. I can think of a whole lot of things that rank as far more entertaining than even the most entertaining of churches if that's what someone is looking for.

[RandyWayne]

I don't quite get that. I mean, I know it happens...I *get* that. But I don't get the mentality. I can think of a whole lot of things that rank as far more entertaining than even the most entertaining of churches if that's what someone is looking for.

Exactly! If it is JUST entertainment I can certainly get much BETTER entertainment in many other places.

[yael]

People are told that if they dont want to go to hell - that they should go to church. Well they take people up on that and go to church.
They go to church because they truly want to go to heaven - but - they just dont want God there (in heaven).

They show up in church - great - but they dont want God there.
They want their cake and eat it too.

I think they say:

"Lord I am at church - thus I am doing YOU a favor - so now in return be happy and I am bringing some of the world with me - so sit back Lord and shut up."

That's how I see it.
I dont think they are regenerated.

[RandyWayne]

Well, church IS an idol to many. A place to be seen as a "million times more humble then thou art". "Whenever the doors are open.....!" and all that.

Personally God has done his darnedest to save me and keep me whole DESPITE church, not because of it.

[Jonah]

I have been awed by the things that God has shown me during my research into this subject. Mainly how that music can be used to manipulate the way that we think and even how our body chemestry can be changed by beats and rythems of music.

[ufmek]

I for one enjoy christian rap. I even write lyrics and songs myself.

Don't really see much wrong with it depending on how and who is using it for what purpose.

[Truthseeker]

Christian rap???

everything christian now days, i guess.

[ufmek]

Christian rap???

everything christian now days, i guess.


Well let me rephrase it then. I enjoy rap.... gospel rap.:spin:

[warmbee]

I know what you mean, I don't care for rock, but I do have some rap songs that I listen to that the lyrics are full of worship and truth. There are a few songs by a group called Lecrea like that, they're actullay my fav because I know I can pick up one of their CD's and always hear good lyrics and good beats:)