The searches of a little soul Part One

[Joyinmyheart]

It has been a long time since I visited here, but I would like to share something I wrote to various trinity folks via email. I hope it won't offend anyone.
And I hope the fonts all come out right...
A Long Journey into His Sweet Word

Greetings to all of you. I wanted to share with you some of my findings in the Greek New Testament, and yet, I must hang my head because I might do some shaking up with some of our English translations of the Bible. My intention is not to blast translators or translations, but always to find the true Word of God. Furthermore, I certainly know that with every new translation we have on the market, I am indeed blessed to have and know and glean from them. They all have their merits. I am facilitating this message in order to enhance our knowledge of the Word. I want to share with you things that have been troubling me. We are all at different levels and have different thoughts, and I would like to remind all of you believers, that we all have the mind of Christ, those that belong to Him. With that note, I want to say, I am speaking in love to you and in love for the Truth of His Word. As some of you may know, I have been on a quest for sometime researching the trinity and the differing points of view and what the Bible says about it. This brought me on a long journey in time spent in the Greek New Testaments, namely The Received Text and the Nestle-Aband as they were the easiest for me to access. I have looked at some other Greek manuscripts but the sources were more difficult to decipher in what I had as far as the interlinear English word equivalents.

And then some time ago in all my searching, I got stuck in the verse, John 1:18 that varies in almost every single English translation that I have come across! And for good reason, it is one of the focal points of Scripture that says a lot about Jesus. With that being said, wow, did my eyes pop open when I had first realized that many English Bibles that used these two basic compilations, the Received Text or the Nestle-Aband (various editions) as their main Greek translating source... the translators were not faithful to these very compilations that they applauded and used. Even worse, in footnotes, some translators even state that they are putting extra words in the Bible text because it is assumed or implied. Some translators are now calling some phrases “idioms”, and therefore they feel it is necessary to change them into modern thoughts or convey what they feel the inspired men of God meant by it.

John 1:18

Let us look at this verse first. To keep things straight, let me first give you in the same order the Greek words in the Received Text and in the Nestle-Aband. I will deliberately use the Greek words, not the equivalents that they choose to put in place of the word that should be there...God, not Son.

Received Text (King James Version, NKJV)
God No man hath seen at any time, only begotten God, which is in the bosom the Father, he hath declared
Nestle-Aband (various English Bibles such as NASB)
God No man hath seen at any time, only begotten God, which is in the bosom the Father, he hath declared

(Please do note that where it says begotten **God** in both manuscripts it is actually written God in the Greek, but the English equivalent given for it is Son. If one wasn’t looking at it carefully in the Greek text, they would have missed this deliberate alteration.)
Also, this word begotten, while this word begotten is obviously used elsewhere in the Bible, it is not a correct translation here. The Greek word here is Monogenees and it means single of its kind, only.

To compound the problem, most every new modern translation that I have seen does away with “bosom of the Father”. Some will put it in the footnotes as a Greek literal translation, and others are boldly now calling it an idiom.
The new translators have invented a phrase like, at the Father’s Side or near His Side or something with near or side or both. Although I can see their intention in order to support the Trinitarian theology that Jesus sits on an enormous hand on the right side of the Father, instead of the Right Hand of the Father, which means in the place of authority. (Also, the Greek definition in many cases (in the New Testament) reveal that where it says Right Hand in fact means merely “right”, not “right hand”.) For Jesus, referring to the Father in John 4 states that God is Spirit.
However, I cannot understand how translators who are trying so hard to translate The Word perfectly in John 1:18, wind up with “side” or “near” when in the Greek it says “bosom”. How can one possibly come up with “side” or “near” to substitute “bosom”??? Furthermore, it does much harm in that in the Bible, this phrase is very necessary: the way it is in the Greek as it supports the Bibles message that Jesus comes from the Father and returns to the Father and is in the Father, and in fact according to Isaiah 9:6, He is the Father…and will some day come in the Glory of the Father.

Now to show you what English translators have done to this verse, let me give you some examples…

[Joyinmyheart]

John 1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (him).
ASV

John 1:18
18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NAS

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
RSV

John 1:18
18 No one has ever actually seen God, but, of course, his only Son has, for he is the companion of the Father and has told us all about him.
TLB

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU

John 1:18
8 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
KJV

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
NIV

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
NKJV

Standard English Bible
18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, [4] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+1#f4) who is at the Father's side, [5] (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+1#f5) he has made him known.

Holman CSB

18 (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:VClk%28%27Jn%201:18%27%29) No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son
the One who is at the Father’s side
He has revealed Him.

CSB footnotes:
18 (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:VClk%28%27Jn%201:18%27%29) No one has ever seen God.[16] Since God is an infinite being, no one can see Him in His absolute essential nature; Ex 33:18–23 (http://bible.lifeway.com/book.asp?ref=Ex%2033:18-23). The One and Only Son[17] Other mss read God — the One who is at the Father’s side[18] Lit is in the bosom of the Father — He has revealed Him.

Here are the footnotes for CSB for verse 14…take note a word was added “because it was implied”.
14 (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:VClk%28%27Jn%201:14%27%29) The Word became flesh[13] The eternally existent Word (vv. 1–2 (http://bible.lifeway.com/book.asp?ref=Jn%201:1-2)) took on full humanity, but without sin; Heb 4:15 (http://bible.lifeway.com/book.asp?ref=Heb%204:15). and took up residence[14] Lit and tabernacled, or and dwelt in a tent; this word occurs only here in John. A related word, referring to the Festival of Tabernacles, occurs only in 7:2 (http://bible.lifeway.com/book.asp?ref=Jn%207:2); Ex 40:34–38 (http://bible.lifeway.com/book.asp?ref=Ex%2040:34-38). among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the • One and Only Son[15] Son is implied from the reference to the Father and from Gk usage. from the Father, full of grace and truth.



New Living Translation
18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God,* is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.

(In the NLT there are variations existing in their various editions.)

[Joyinmyheart]

The NET Bible
1:18 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=18) No one has ever seen God. The only one, 45 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#n45) himself God, who is in closest fellowship with 46 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#n46) the Father, has made God 47 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#n47) known. 48 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#n48)
Net Bible Footnotes:
45 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#v45) tc The textual problem μονογενὴς θεός (monogenh" qeo", “the only God”) versus ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός (Jo monogenh" Juio", “the only son”) is a notoriously difficult one. Only one letter would have differentiated the readings in the mss, since both words would have been contracted as nomina sacra: thus qMs or uMs. Externally, there are several variants, but they can be grouped essentially by whether they read θεός or υἱός. The majority of mss, especially the later ones (A C3 Θ Ψ Ë1,13 Ï lat), read ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός. Ì75 א1 33 pc have ὁ μονογενὴς θεός, while the anarthrous μονογενὴς θεός is found in Ì66 א* B C* L pc. The articular θεός is almost certainly a scribal emendation to the anarthrous θεός, for θεός without the article is a much harder reading. The external evidence thus strongly supports μονογενὴς θεός. Internally, although υἱός fits the immediate context more readily, θεός is much more difficult. As well, θεός also explains the origin of the other reading (υἱός), because it is difficult to see why a scribe who found υἱός in the text he was copying would alter it to θεός. Scribes would naturally change the wording to υἱός however, since μονογενὴς υἱός is a uniquely Johannine christological title (cf. John 3:16, 18 (http://net.bible.org/passage.php?passage=John+3:16,+18); 1 John 4:9 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=1Jo&chapter=4&verse=9)). But θεός as the older and more difficult reading is preferred. As for translation, it makes the most sense to see the word θεός as in apposition to μονογενής, and the participle ὁ ὤν (Jo wn) as in apposition to θεός, giving in effect three descriptions of Jesus rather than only two. (B. D. Ehrman, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, 81, suggests that it is nearly impossible and completely unattested in the NT for an adjective followed immediately by a noun that agrees in gender, number, and case, to be a substantival adjective: “when is an adjective ever used substantivally when it immediately precedes a noun of the same inflection?” This, however, is an overstatement. First, as Ehrman admits, μονογενής in John 1:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=14) is substantival. And since it is an established usage for the adjective in this context, one might well expect that the author would continue to use the adjective substantivally four verses later. Indeed, μονογενής is already moving toward a crystallized substantival adjective in the NT [cf. Luke 9:38 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Luk&chapter=9&verse=38); Heb 11:17 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Heb&chapter=11&verse=17)]; in patristic Greek, the process continued [cf. PGL 881 s.v. 7 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=7)]. Second, there are several instances in the NT in which a substantival adjective is followed by a noun with which it has complete concord: cf., e.g., Rom 1:30 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Rom&chapter=1&verse=30); Gal 3:9 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Gal&chapter=3&verse=9); 1 Tim 1:9 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=1Ti&chapter=1&verse=9); 2 Pet 2:5 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=2Pe&chapter=2&verse=5).) The modern translations which best express this are the NEB (margin) and TEV. Several things should be noted: μονογενής alone, without υἱός, can mean “only son,” “unique son,” “unique one,” etc. (see 1:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=14)). Furthermore, θεός is anarthrous. As such it carries qualitative force much like it does in 1:1 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=1)c, where θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (qeo" hn Jo logo") means “the Word was fully God” or “the Word was fully of the essence of deity.” Finally, ὁ ὤν occurs in Rev 1:4, 8; 4:8, 11:17 (http://net.bible.org/passage.php?passage=Rev+1:4,+8;+4:8,+11:17); and 16:5 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=16&verse=5), but even more significantly in the LXX of Exod 3:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Exo&chapter=3&verse=14). Putting all of this together leads to the translation given in the text.
tn Or “The unique one.” For the meaning of μονογενής (monogenh") see the note on “one and only” in 1:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=14).
46 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#v46) tn Grk “in the bosom of” (an idiom for closeness or nearness; cf. L&N 34.18; BDAG 556 s.v. κόλπος 1).
47 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#v47) tn Grk “him”; the referent (God) has been specified in the translation for clarity.
48 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=1#v48) sn Has made God known. In this final verse of the prologue, the climactic and ultimate statement of the earthly career of the Logos, Jesus of Nazareth, is reached. The unique One (John 1:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=14)), the One who has taken on human form and nature by becoming incarnate (became flesh, 1:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=14)), who is himself fully God (the Word was God, 1:1 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=1&verse=1)c) and is to be identified with the ever-living One of the Old Testament revelation (Exod 3:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Exo&chapter=3&verse=14)), who is in intimate relationship with the Father, this One and no other has fully revealed what God is like. As Jesus said to Philip in John 14:9 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=14&verse=9), “The one who has seen me has seen the Father.”

I ASK YOU…HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO TRANSLATE IT-- LIKE THIS…
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only single of its kind God, which is in the bosom the Father, he hath declared

And if someone just had to translate it into perfect English, how hard would it be to translate it like this…

John 1:18

No man hath seen God at any time, but the only single one of its kind God, which is in the Father’s bosom, has declared him.

Now this word “declared” in the Greek is defined:

NT:1834
exeegeomai, exeegoumai;
1. properly, to lead out, to be leader, to go before
2. metaphorically, to draw out in narrative, to unfold in teaching
a. to recount, rehearse: Acts 10:8
b. to unfold, declare: John 1:18
from Thayer's Greek Lexicon

Matthew 18:10-20

The second verse that I would like to bring to your attention is a unique finding in Matthew 18:14. Please bear with me as I want you to see this in context with the verses around it to support what I am trying to convey.
Let me give it to you first in a couple of translations so that you can compare it properly to what we have in our Bibles…

[Joyinmyheart]

Matt 18:10-20
10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11["For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.]12 "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 "If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 19 "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."
NASU

Matt 18:10-20
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
KJV
I highlighted the verses that I wanted to draw out. Notice that this entire portion of Scripture is tied together. A lot of new modern translations have verse 18:11 in the footnotes, totally removed from the text of the Bible, and as (below) in the Net Bible, it is declared to be parallel copying, inferring that it is a fuller Bible, such as coming from the Byzantine era, as the King James is declared to be. I would certainly like to know more about which ones are the more important manuscripts (per statement below). Please see the Net Bible footnote below.
Now for my point. Nothing could have prepared me for the shock when I was gleaning from these passages in the Greek New Testament. I found a word in Matthew 18:14, a long big real word in the Greek that was simply not translated—not in the Received Text nor in the Nestle-Aband, although it was in the Greek text in both of these. There it is, but there it is not translated! This word in the Greek is
NT:1715
Emprosthen
1. adverbially, in front, before: Rev 4:6
2. it serves as a preposition, with the genitive
a. before, i. e. in that local region which is in front of a person or a thing: Matt 5:24
b. before, in the presence of, Matt 27:11
c. before, i. e., in the sight of one: Matt 5:16
d. before, denoting rank: John 1:15,30
Please take some time to look up these verses, and you will see how they are used in the Bible text, and it is a significant word.
This totally surprised me! I wondered why this word was not translated, and so I went on a quest to find out which English Bible translated it. I found two cases. The Young’s Literal Translation used it, but it was so weird that one could not make any sense of it. The second was in NASB, it was not in the text, but in the footnotes, and there also one would never guess on how to insert it into the text.
And there I sat wondering why this long word was not even translated in the Greek, in the Greek interlinear, let alone in any of the main translations. I did recently come across a printed interlinear that shows it, and it simply says “before”.
Let us put this word Emprosthen (meaning in front or before) in and just see how it would read. Well, at least in my opinion.
10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11["For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.]12 "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 "If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 "So it is not the will of your Father *before or in front of you* who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 19 "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."
Now some of you readers would get very touchy about my placement of that word in this verse, but here it is in the Greek word-for-word…
Even so not it is will in front or before the Father your which is in heaven, that should perish one the little of these
Notice that in Greek, the nouns and verbs are reversed in comparison on how we place things in English. Once one reads the Greek interlinears for a while, one can grasp how the words are to be sorted.
I may not have this correct, but when I look at the entire text here, I see that it indeed makes sense in light of verse 18:11 and comparing verses 18:19-20 together.
What is Jesus saying? Or even why is this word not translated? And as we look at the verse 18:11…can we honestly say that it is to be omitted and placed in the footnotes?
Or is Jesus saying something different here that does not adhere to the Three Persons theology? Do these passages declare that Jesus is declaring that He is the Father or not? Who is actually doing the corrupting here in these passages? Is it parallel copying? Is it or was 18:11 deliberately removed? And again, why not translate all the words in the Greek to English? I would appreciate them exactly as they are.
For that matter, we can also check on John 3:13. Was the last part of the verse “who is in heaven” omitted as well for the same reasons? For most new Bibles do not even include it as a footnote.

[Joyinmyheart]

John 3:13
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. NKJV

13 (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:VClk%28%27Jn%203:13%27%29) No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the • Son of Man.[8] CSB
3 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man* has come down from heaven. NLT
Now regarding the Net Bible with its extensive notes (below), we can sit here and ponder. What has taken place over many years? A slant to produce a doctrine that is not in the Bible, but made by assumption? Or are we really dealing with a bunch of parallel copying through the early centuries? Are we dealing with concepts that came from the Constantine time? Are we dealing with corruption or slipups?
For I know that there are some published Greek New Testaments that have each word weighted and assigned numbers that weigh the relevance of the word itself, based on how many times it appears in each existing manuscript, and there are many N.T. manuscripts. God is really watching out for His Word!!!!
The Net Bible…
18:10 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=10) “See that you do not disdain one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. 14 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n14) 18:11 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=11) [[OMITTED]] 18:12 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=12) What do you think? If someone 15 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n15) owns a hundred 16 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n16) sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go look for the one that went astray? 17 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n17) 18:13 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=13) And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, 18 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n18) he will rejoice more over it than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 18:14 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=14) In the same way, your Father in heaven is not willing that one of these little ones be lost.
Restoring Christian Relationships
18:15 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=15) “If 19 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n19) your brother 20 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n20) sins, 21 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n21) go and show him his fault 22 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n22) when the two of you are alone. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. 18:16 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=16) But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 23 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n23) 18:17 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=17) If 24 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n24) he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If 25 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n25) he refuses to listen to the church, treat him like 26 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n26) a Gentile 27 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n27) or a tax collector. 28 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n28)
18:18 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=18) “I tell you the truth, 29 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n29) whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven. 18:19 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=19) Again, I tell you the truth, 30 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n30) if two of you on earth agree about whatever you ask, my Father in heaven will do it for you. 31 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#n31) 18:20 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=20) For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am there among them.”
Footnotes to the Net Bible…
14 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=18#v14) tc The most important mss (א B L* Θ* Ë1,13 33 892* pc e ff1 sys sa) do not include 18:11 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=18&verse=11) “For the Son of Man came to save the lost.” The verse is included in D Lmg W Θc 078vid Ï lat syc,p,h, but is almost certainly not original, being borrowed, as it were, from the parallel in Luke 19:10 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Luk&chapter=19&verse=10). The present translation follows NA27 in omitting the verse number as well, a procedure also followed by a number of other modern translations.
The NAME JESUS (Savior)

Now I would like to address some issues that are taking place with the Name of Jesus and the “Name” itself when mentioned in the Bible.
First we need to agree on what the Name means in the Greek.

The Greek definition for Name is…
NT:3686
onoma, onomatos, to

name by which a person or a thing is called, and distinguished from others

1. universally: used of proper names, Mark 3:16
2. used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is roused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, Matt 10:41
a. by the command and authority of Christ:
b. in the use of the name of Christ Mark 9:38
c. through the power of Christ's name, Mark 16:17
d. in acknowledging, embracing, professing, the name of Christ: Acts 4:12
e. relying or resting on the name of Christ, rooted (so to speak) in his name, i. e. mindful of Christ: Col 3:17
f. for the name of Christ 1 Peter 4:14
3. persons reckoned up by name: Acts 1:15
4. the cause or reason named: 1 Peter 4:16

First, notice that when “name” is used in the New Testament, given the definition, name means name basically. As you can see, very rarely would it mean something like “authority” or “followers”, but that is exactly what various translations are changing this word into. One thing that I would like to point out is that when one does translate the word name into another word, a very important aspect of Jesus’ deity is obliterated.
Imagine putting “authority” or “followers” in place of “name” below! AND YET, some translations are doing just that!

For example in John 5:43 and John 10:25…

John 5:43
43 "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
NASU

John 10:25
25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
NASU

John 12:44-45
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.

45 "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
NASU

John 14:7-8
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
NASU

John 14:9-10
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, "Show us the Father'?
NASU

John 14:13-15
13 "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
NASU

John 15:16-17
16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
NASU

John 17:11-12
11 "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

12 "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
NASU

[Joyinmyheart]

So it all comes down to this…

Do you believe that the Jesus is the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Or not. (See Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38) Can we just take one verse and not the other?

Do you believe that Jesus is God Himself that came to fulfill all and take our place in punishment, what we so justly deserved, He fulfilled and that He died for us in our place and gives us Eternal life and makes us His own children?

Do you believe that was God Himself or some one else, another Servant Who Shed His Blood, or was it God Himself Who died for us and Shed His Blood in the form of a Human? Or do you believe the Scriptures where it says it was His own Arm that saved us (Isaiah)? Or was it some one else’s arm?

But even more, with all that is happening around us, that affects us deeply, do we trust the Lord in all things? Do we trust Him to bring us to where He wants us to be in the end?

YES, I DO!!!!! And we must all guard His Word as 2 Timothy states so clearing, guard the treasure! Please don’t let our doctrines drown out the Word of God.

[BroRutledge]

Everybody on this thread is invited to continue the Trinity-Oneness discussions on the new Site that we have just built. We also invite you to stay with the GNC and work with us in our new format.

Our new site is http://www.godchatcafe.com

On this new site everybody can have full liberty of expression with no fear of admins banning you or even reprimanding you regardless of how strong you post. Trinitarians have full liberty to teach your doctrines over there as well as oneness and all other beliefs. Anybody can post anything they believe on the new site and even debate and get rough with the person that does not agree if that is your style of posting.

On the new site I will be joining in on many of these discussions, and I have some very strong views that I wish to express, so that will be the place where I will take my liberty also.

God bless
BroRutledge