Is the ministry a family business?

[Truthseeker]

It appears to me that some have made the ministry a family run business. I know God can call and use the family member of a pastor, but doesn't God ever call someone that's not family. Alot of times if the Pastor is to retire the Son takes over like it's a family business or something. I believe God can call the son, but for the most part I think it's favoritism. I know of pastor that have given a recently reclaimed backslidin son a postion.

Does the leadership position always have to be family or a son in law. I believe there are alot of saints with gifts and calling in these churches that never get to grow or be used by God because pastors (some) are going by your last name verses calling and gifts.

It always breads immorality for those whose hearts aren't right that receive these position from Pop. I know of one case a man commited adultery, you guessed it, he was related to someone
high up and it wasn't dealt with right and now he's Pastoring in another city
all because the ministry has been made a family business.

I've heard some say that the son of the Pastor knows how to run the church because he been around it with his father. I'm sure that helps, but it's not know how that qualifies one for an overseer, but calling.

Any thoughts?

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

The Ministry IS NOT a business; however, it seems that today's organizations are set up as a business. The Ministry needs to sit up and take notice: many (myself not included) have allowed a "covering" to be placed over themselves.
I remember when a certain person began a television evangelism 'ministry'. He came into town and began to 'interview' various pastors from all the denominations. Of course we all KNOW that the pastor, today, represents the local church as a whole. Well, at the end of all this interviewing, the head of the TV 'ministry' is regarded as an authority figure. He was not ordained by any denomination, nor has he been called of the Lord in the Ministry. The simple act of "interviewing' pastors elevated him above them! After all, the perception is that the one HOLDING the microphone is 'greater' than the person being interviewed.
Beloved, many in the eyes of the Church, the person nearest to the pastor is regarded as more spiritual. I believe they are just more prone to say "yes". My opinion.

Brother Villa

[Goodshepherd]

The ministry should be JESUS's ministry, not a family business.

[Joan]

Seems that under the current system of church government (which has roots in catholicism anyway), a pastor's kid just can't win, eh? The p.k. gets criticized if he has the same struggles as anybody else in the church and he gets criticized if he actually learned "the way" from his parents. No, it shouldn't be a "family business" but why should there be a fragmented church body in the first place with no accountability? Are we quick to criticize when the p.k. gets the "pro clergy" job which is top rung on the ladder, but unwilling to seriously consider the current church govt of a clergy/laity split is something to be repented of? What does the Bible say about eldership? Is the current church govt just about all of us live under even Biblical or does it just seem logical because we have never seriously studied its origins ourselves?

An eldership would keep everyone accountable to Truth and allow Jesus to be the Head of the body, not a single man, who many times gives up the name his mother gave him (his given name) to become "pastor whoever". The phrase "It's lonely at the top." is not Biblical. Humility is Biblical. Leaders are to be servants. I just happen to know all too well how the current way of church govt works more against church growth with it hierarchical ways and causes isolation which allows everybody to be great big EASY targets for the enemy to allow doctrines of demons to get in and confusion too.

I suppose this post should be in the Church Govt Post.

God bless.

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

The 'Church Government' has NEVER changed. Either men have not truly 'matured' into it, or else they have corrupted it into what we today see as 'denominationalism'.
Denominationalsim will not submit itself to 'Church Government' because it will have to admit it has erred. In order to maintain the status quo, it has to deny the "Calling" that the Lord has placed in the Church. It does this by demanding that it (denomination) be first recognized, before it recognizes the Ministry. In effect, the Ministry is asked to "...prays or prophecys with their head covered..."
I once went into a chat room (apostolic) who outwardly 'shuns denominationalism'. They said they will recognize and ordain any Minister called of the Lord. Sounds good, but the Minister must first acknowledge to abide by THEIR rules! They are requesting to be that Minister's COVERING!
Maybe I'm missing something. Has anyone heard about the Holy Spirit that is supposed to GUIDE us?

Brother Villa

[Thelordisone]

Yes, calling is a very serious matter.

If the Pastor does not seek the Lords guidance in giving a position to anyone for that matter. This can cause many problems in the Lords house. The worst thing you can do is place someone in authority that does not have the Love for either the brethren or souls!! Mercy!!

So, again we have to get on our knees and ask God to lead the men of God. Because, "Unless God builds up the house in vain do they work those that build!!"

In HIS Name!!

[foreverblessed]

No, I don't believe it should be a family business. It does seem far too often that this is the case.

My father Pastored a church for 36 years until his death. Three years before his death, my brother was voted in as associate pastor with the clause at his Dad's death, he became pastor. I personally feel he was the most qualified at the time of Dad's death. Other's may disagree.

If all of my siblings were males, he would have produced (more than likely) preachers out of each one.
The rest of us kids were girls, and Dad didn't believe in women ministers, so that was OUT of the question. If any of us girls had expressed interest outside of music, children's ministry or administrative, it would have been promptly shut down.

From the day my brother was born, he was taught everything about the ministry, and as a small boy, he sat at Dad's desk with him reading and studying the Word. He was taught at 10, what some people go to bible school for. He was preaching at 16, and it was a full blown messages, annointed by God.

As a child, he did have a normal life, don't get me wrong, but our lives as PK's, especially his, was built around the church and ministry. My brother was trained from the very beginning. This is normally not done in a typical saints home.

In the normal saints home (I know because I am a "normal" person now) we have everything in our lives that demand our time. We have jobs, school, a total different life outside the ministry. It is just different.

From experience living in the ministers home, every aspect of the life of the minister is centered around the church, the people, church services. Automatically the children are just involved as the parents.
The preacher's kids are often promoted within the churches, because believe it or not, they are often very talented in many area's. They have a God given leadership qualities and they often learn by seeing, (they see first hand everyday the ins and outs of leadership).

Ministers are often at fault of seeing "no wrong" in their children, just as we all have that problem from time to time. It is just normal to promote your children, every parent does it in whatever profession that their in. Doctor's usually produce at least one Doctor in the family. If they don't become doctors, they sure have a knowledge of the medical field.


I do believe that there needs to be a balance in using people within the church. I believe that the ministry should watch promoting children or family above others, it can breed jealousy among people.

Pastors should be promoting everyone to do the best that they can for the Lord.
It needs to be taught that we are all minister's, while we may not all be annointed to preach the Word from the pulpit.

BTW, my brother is raising three boys, the oldest not even being sent to public schools. They will all three have lives centered around the ministry. No doubt that all three will preach someday, unless we are in heaven before then.
Do I feel it is the right thing for their lives? I am sure that they will be fine Christian young men used of God, but I personally believe that they need more contact with the real world around them, but then again, my opinion doesn't really count in this.

[Truthseeker]

Foreverblessed

Like I said in my post it's not know how that determines if the son is qualified, but
calling. I'm not saying a son can't be called to Pastor, but are they always called to take over their fathers church?:)

I think alot of times it's favoritism.
Not saying your brother was, but most Pastors would be bias towards their son in believing he is to take over the church.

I've heard of a pastor saying he wouldn't let no one, but family take over the ministry or to that effect.

Also alot of this would be solved if we would get away from the single one man show ministry and move to the biblical plural eldership




You stated:

Ministers are often at fault of seeing "no wrong" in their children, just as we all have that problem from time to time. It is just normal to promote your children, every parent does it in whatever profession that their in. Doctor's usually produce at least one Doctor in the family. If they don't become doctors, they sure have a knowledge of the medical field.


The big difference is that the ministry is not a profession, but a calling and a parent can't produce the calling.

[foreverblessed]

Bro. Rob,

I personally believe in the case with my brother, he was favored by my father. In his case, he was also favored by the members of the church. The people really love him, and I am glad that they do.

It was put to a vote, paper ballots, not the way that we usually vote. It was a more serious vote, and everyone knew that my Father could have passed at any time. There were other people that the congregation could have approached, but they chose to vote in my brother. Dad actually ended up living three more years.

My brother on the other hand doesn't believe in the Mom and Pop method of running a church. When he took full time pastorate, many changes took place. There isn't one member of my family in a leadership position at this time, and most at one time held some form of leadership or ministry. Most of my family left after being removed from positions or passed over in selection of ministries.

I just hope that when my brothers little boys are grown, he remembers he doesn't believe in promoting family over saints, and continues in the way that he has been pastoring.

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

"If the Pastor does not seek the Lord's guidance in giving the position..."
Beloved, it is NOT the pastor that should seek anyone to fill the position in the Ministry, but the Lord. It is the presbytery, however, that should be sensitive to the voice of the Lord to be able to CONFIRM the Lord's choice in the matter. Otherwise, those in the Ministry will be politically elected. In many cases, this is what the Ministry has become, and many in the Ministry position are preaching what they have been taught, and do not believe the Lord is truly speaking to them, PERSONALLY! The Ministry of the Lord IS STILL apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher; and the Lord is STILL calling MEN to fill these positions.
Church, "...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God..." I preach this so the Church might hear, and might believe, and might "...direct his conversation aright..."

Brother Villa

[survivor4christ]

Grace and Peace!

I grew up in a Baptist family. My grandfather was a Baptist preacher. I have at least three or four uncles who are pastoring Baptist churches in Louisiana. All but two of my grandfather's 10 or so kids ended up in ministry activities; I have an aunt who is in bible school (married to an Apostolic preacher btw!) and another who is over a full gospel baptist ministry sunday school program in New Orleans.

I come from a very religious family. While this is so, I never knew the Lord in an intimate way until I was grown and became born again at 20 or 21. When this happened, I left my great uncle's baptist church and never looked back. Everyone in the family said I joined a cult and did not understand the move. The zealousness. They admired me for it, however, and I was sought out often for spiritual counsel. My great uncle asked me to come back to the church b/c he saw I was serious about living for God and the young people needed someone like me around to encourage them...I asked him if he planned on changing his mode of baptism, and if he would teach the people that they need to be born again according to Acts 2:38? He said it was not necessary, never saw him again. He passed away a couple of years ago, and I thought how sad it is to dedicate most of your life to building up an 'empire', a 'business' and for what?

My cousin took over the pastorate of the church, but it still is a sad thing. I could never in good conscience go back to that lie and deception.

But the biggest lie and deception aside from the total untruth of the Trinity, was the lie that someone in the family is supposed to carry the torch of the ministry....

So many times while coming up I heard conversations amongst our family that pretty much implied that we Russes 'were special.' God's Hand is definitely on us, we pump out preachers by the dozens!' But they did not believe in women preachers.

This whole idea of spiritual pride and superiority always turned me the wrong way. I present to you that after I was born again, and in particular after I started going back to trini churches, I could have chosen at any time from a pick of positions at any of my family's churches. The very idea sickened me. Not just b/c of them not teaching the truth, but b/c I told myself if God ever decides to place me in a position of leadership, I want it to be b/c He CALLED me, He anointed and appointed me, He ordered my steps, He directed my paths....not merely b/c I had the right last name.

I am anointed to sing, to God be the glory. I have a trini cousin preacher/evangelist who lives in VA. He has a recording studio. At any time I could have taken a trip down there and been on CD like that.

But no thanks...why?

Nepotism! I want no part of it! My cousin is awesome, can sing his socks off, but I do not want to be a part of his ministry, yes, b/c he does not have the revelation of this truth. But also b/c I have a serious issue/problem with nepotism in the ministry, in the church. To me it is phoney and when it is done, there is no anointing involved whatsoever. And I also feel God is not pleased.

Yes, we are to want God to use our kids. Want to see our loved ones saved. Sometimes I believe they offer relatives positions just to keep them in the church, they are so afar off from God. I have witnessed it! But we should draw nigh to God not b/c of the position, but b/c of who He is and He commands us to do so.

I do not want to be in ministry of any kind with the wrong motives. I'll sit down first and ask God to cleanse me of impure motives. Don't want a position in a family church. No way!

It does sadden me b/c this happens a lot, and if you say something to the effect or even imply that nepotism is going on, you are attacked, as Amanda is being on the other thread....

Remember Eli, Hophni and Phinehas?

Nepotism, and disobedience, caused the house of God to become a place of disgrace and shame and God had to wipe out the family in order to clean house.

Why did Eli not set things in order? B/c his sons were involved and he did not want to hurt their feelings, I suppose. It is hardest to minister to those closest to you, and when loved ones are in ministry and they are doing something unethical or unbiblical, there is a tendency to cover up things and sweep things under the rug b/c they are family and you don't want their dirty laundry aired out in front of everyone.

Or maybe Eli just did not have control over his own house, so the house of God suffered as well.

Now if God says, Jr is in the ministry, then so be it. But I do not think that is the case most of the time. I think it is the wisdom of God if you believe your child is called to minister, allow that child to go somewhere afresh and new to start a church. Not so near our ruling hands of authority. They have learned well and God is able to keep them from falling.

We need to be led of the Lord in these matters. Souls are at risk here. The church is indeed not a business.

JMHO
Love, Sis. Wenona

[truemessianic]

I desire to put my 2¢ worth.
I used to be part of a work in which the Pastor had a son and was about to resign the church. When he did resign, the Asst. Pastor took over the work, and new elections were supposed to be held. What happened next disturbed the church a bit.
The old pastor and new pastor got together and choose who would be the board of the church. I was a trustee at the time, and as such, was supposed to either be head deacon/trustee or even Asst. Pastor. The new Pastor and the old one choose the new Pastor's wife as Asst. Pastor, and the old Pastor's son as Deacon/Secretary as well as Head Trustee. The vote was influenced because no other nominees were taken, and the request for nominees was looked down upon.
It shows that this particular church was indeed a church of family members. I left the church eventually because of doctrinal issues, but still love the members.
I see too many churches as being family businesses. There is no more fasting to hear the Lord's will on an issue. The ministry must be entirely led of the Lord, or it is entirely of the flesh. There are no two ways about it. The Bible records in Acts 1:21-26, "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all [men], shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles." This is how the Apostle's did this, and it should be such a way with the church today.

[Webmaster]

I am certainly not against, oh say a son taking the reigns from a father, but only if there is a true calling. If God has indeed called the son, or other relative, and it is the Will of God, then by all means proceed. However, if there is no true calling, or maybe a better word would be BURDEN for the lost and the members of the church, then it would be best to have other options.

BTW, I am a 1st generation apostolic, was not raised by an apostolic family. I can only make a comment based upon what I see and have seen.

Bro. Flemming

[Victoryitsmine1]

My foster dad was also a pastor, 40 years in the UPC org. And through all of his years he said he would never have his son pastor the church when he retired. If or if not there was a call there. He said the only person who will ever pastor this church is who God sends and no one else! As for sons taking over. I have seen it many times as being a good thing and as being bad. I know many who have and it has been Gods will. Seen ones who took over and it was not Gods will and was the demise of that church. And I have seen pastors who, like my dad, know that is not the right thing for that church body. There is a church whom we fellowship with now which is a very large church of over 3000 people. The pastor of that church has many times stated. Called or not called. My son WILL NOT be the next pastor of this church. However the current pastor of that church did take it over from his father and it has grown tremendously since! So.. It is all in Gods decisions and his own timing and not ours. Totally up to God, He does the calling we dont! And I will tell ya, my husband is a preacher and to take over that church for him, would not be Gods will. So its not that the pk's go seeking out daddys church either. That is the last thing from the will of God for us. God bless you all and keep going on for Him!

In Jesus name
Sis T

[PastorS]

As seen both sides, blessing and curse when a family member takes over. One thing is in order.

If it is not your choice, just pray and submit. If it is your choice, be careful because you will need even more prayer since your vote will choose who will be leading the church or body of Christ in your location.

There is NOTHING wrong on family leading in anyone church, provided:

1- They are full of the Spirit
2- They Obey God and His Word
3- Most inportantly, God has chosen you for the position

All three reasons(not options) are absolutly needed. If they are family or not is not the issue.

I will tell you though, that I have seen in some cases where the family expects favoritism and even are a challenge to work with.

We should always request that GOD be in every desition making in our churches.

I exort the family members to be the brother/sister in Christ first rather then the brother or sister of this world.

[Pastor D]

Praise the Lord Everybody:
This has been a very interesting thread. As a pastor who is not the son of a pastor, but the father of a newly spirit-filled son, I have some observations. First, I think there is a great deal of nepotism regarding the sons of pastors who follow their fathers in ministry. I have seen churches manipulated, character issues overlooked and people hurt or destroyed, just to ensure that the pastor's son inherited the ministry. At points in my development, I saw myself as a victim of this system. At times I felt ignored although I was more attentive and faithful than the ministers in my church who were connected with the pastor. God has it all is control, however and the Bible did not lie when it said a man's gift will make room for him. God opened doors and I am blessed now to pastor a growing church.

I have deliberately never mentioned preaching to my son. He needs to be called of God to preach and then assigned by God to work chosen for his life. The Lord filled him with the Holy Ghost on Easter Sunday (Hallejuah). One of my associate pastors mentioned to me that the Lord had shown him that my son would preach. Like Mary, I have simply pondered this saying in my heart. Beyond encouraging him to be spiritual enough to hear from God, I will never push him into ministry; nor am I hoping that he will inherit the church. If God chooses Him--so be it. If not, so be it.

Part of the issue is the financial structure of the church. Since it becomes the basis of the first family's income, sons are chosen to succeed to keep the tithes in the family. One way around this is proper retirement funds and insurance to provide support in the event of the retirement, disability or death of the pastor.

I hope this helps.

Pastor D

[Abigail4476]

It appears to me that some have made the ministry a family run business. I know God can call and use the family member of a pastor, but doesn't God ever call someone that's not family. Alot of times if the Pastor is to retire the Son takes over like it's a family business or something. I believe God can call the son, but for the most part I think it's favoritism. I know of pastor that have given a recently reclaimed backslidin son a postion.

Does the leadership position always have to be family or a son in law. I believe there are alot of saints with gifts and calling in these churches that never get to grow or be used by God because pastors (some) are going by your last name verses calling and gifts.

It always breads immorality for those whose hearts aren't right that receive these position from Pop. I know of one case a man commited adultery, you guessed it, he was related to someone
high up and it wasn't dealt with right and now he's Pastoring in another city
all because the ministry has been made a family business.

I've heard some say that the son of the Pastor knows how to run the church because he been around it with his father. I'm sure that helps, but it's not know how that qualifies one for an overseer, but calling.

Any thoughts?
In our church, a new pastor would be voted on by the members. So, if the majority of the members want the pastor's son to be the new pastor, then where's the problem?

Music ministry is a family ministry and develop[ing] skill in our home. It will be passed on to our children. Where they choose to apply it is not our choice, but theirs, and I'll be happy as long as they choose to use it working for God.

I've never heard of a father being able to just "pass the church" to his son...without a vote, that is...is this common in a certain organization?

[ApostolicLady]

Abigail
What if your chidren cant really sing on tune or play any instrument? Some people are just born with the gift of singing, Some are not no matter how bad they want it too happen. MY son Loves to sing and he has a Very strong voice, Would even love to sing specials in church . he is taking Voice lessons in college this yr to try and improve his voice so that maybe he will be able to do that :yeah: He excels in just about everything but this . He has a willing spirit

[Abigail4476]

Abigail
What if your chidren cant really sing on tune or play any instrument? Some people are just born with the gift of singing, Some are not no matter how bad they want it too happen. MY son Loves to sing and he has a Very strong voice, Would even love to sing specials in church . he is taking Voice lessons in college this yr to try and improve his voice so that maybe he will be able to do that :yeah: He excels in just about everything but this . He has a willing spirit
:nt:
There are those who are born "tone deaf", but it is rare. For the most part, singing or playing an instrument is an acquired skill that one can attain through hard work and discipline.

And, yes, there are those who are born with a natural gift who don't have to work so hard "acquiring the skill."

[Jillian]

In our church, a new pastor would be voted on by the members. So, if the majority of the members want the pastor's son to be the new pastor, then where's the problem?

Music ministry is a family ministry and develop[ing] skill in our home. It will be passed on to our children. Where they choose to apply it is not our choice, but theirs, and I'll be happy as long as they choose to use it working for God.

I've never heard of a father being able to just "pass the church" to his son...without a vote, that is...is this common in a certain organization?

There are several churches in our area that are founded by one man. That one man is the decision maker for that church. No deacon board, no elder board...The church is owned by that man. That is how the church gets passed to the son.

There is a local church that when the pastor died he left the decision to the elder board. They did not vote for the family member. The family member left the church to go start his own church. :wah:

[NewJerusalem]

I post with great reservation...but couldn't sleep tonight if I didn't share some of my heart with you. I understand that oftentimes children will tend to go into a field of interest that they have been raised around. I think that this influences all - not just a Pastor & his family. I do have a great deal of understanding on the inside of the "glass house"...it is true that some Pastors have "installed" their sons into a Pastoral position...although, you will never, ever find one to admit that it was so...but none-the-less - that is not my point...what I am saying is...we can't decide if someone is called - but we can seek God for wisdom and direction when we are "voting" and if you vote one way because it is the "in" thing...shame on you - you should vote the way that you feel is right - from your heart. I don't know of any person who would want to Pastor a church without knowing it was what God had for them...Now...I know some can have considerable financial gain in Pastoring - I read some place about five years ago it was one of the highest paid positions - sorry Home Mission Pastors didn't mean to depress you there - :) LOL! But...I sure pray & hope they're not within our ranks & organizations..."in it for the money" - - - which I don't believe there is - I know another topic to discuss. I do know that Pastoring isn't easy - my Dad pastored a Home Missions Church and suffered a massive heart attack at a very young age - totally stress related...so...I think sometimes the sons are praying for the Lord to take them in another direction as opposed to carrying on the torch (so to speak). I know that our Pastor truly has a love for the Church in my local assembly & I know that some have passed wrongful judgment on him...he is my brother-in-law...and he is very prayerful in the direction that the Lord would take our local congregation...And I feel that our church growth is from the unity & humility that our Pastor strives for within the Body!

I know that this subject is very sticky - but I just had to share a bit from my heart...love your Pastor and pray without ceasing for the leadership of your local assembly. It is so easy to pass judgment with the tongue...I personally know that people have no idea sometimes - speaking from my own experience - they look and see the pianist - the Minister of Music's wife - but if they could see beyond what their eyes behold - they would see I have endured...I have journeyed many rough roads...I have experienced hurt...I have stood faithful when my family all turned their backs on God...I have stood beside my Mother's bed from her attempted suicide...I have looked death in the eyes when my father had a tragic motorcycle accident & nearly died...I have found that Secret Place tho'! Oh that we would all seek Him...what I am saying is we are people...love is so rare these days...Love the Lord with all your heart and whatever the Lord has blessed you with the ability to do & has opened the door for you to do - do it with all your might - don't listen to the critics - pray & listen to the Lord! May your heart rejoice - the Lord cares for you! Love ya!

Love & Prayers,
NewJerusalem