Questions

[Tammy]

I recently experienced something in my church that was a turn off. I will not be returning to that church. My pastor, his wife, daughter and granddaughter are very manipulative and controlling. They act as if they are the only spiritual people in the church and the rest of the congregation just doesn't get it.

They was recently an incident that happened that was ungodly and unseemly. First of all, the wife, the daughter and the granddaughter all claim to be prophetess but they do not use this gift. They just brag about it all the time. As for the incident, the granddaughter went off (supposedly in the Spirit) but what she was doing was unseemly. She kept speaking in tongues but it was never interpreted for the church and she went to certain individuals and was laying hands on them and rubbing on them (she was supposed to be healing them). She became very aggressive and at one point it appeared as if she was telling the minister off in tongues. She also told several people to get out the church. It caused a great deal of confusion and we knew that was not God. However, her family (the leaders) are claiming that she was under God's annointing and that she was prophecying and healing people.

They claim that someone could interpret what she was saying but when asked what was the message, we were told that the Lord told them to keep it a secret because the congregation isn't strong enough to bear what was said. We wanted a meeting to discuss this and they refused to give us one. The wife of the pastor was really nasty and told people if they do not like it, they do not have to come to that church. Also, they started to prophecy about people dying because we are against God.

I know that wasn't God and I was wondering where was their discernment. I also believe that they are covering up things and do not want to admit that they are wrong. How does this picture sound to you? If there had been visitors that day, they would have been confused and turned off.

[nytxn1971]

Sounds like the enemy to me... totally not God.

As for where their discernment was...
Probably the same place their common sense was.

[jbenjesus]

Originally posted by Tammy
First of all, the wife, the daughter and the granddaughter all claim to be prophetess but they do not use this gift. They just brag about it all the time. As for the incident, the granddaughter went off (supposedly in the Spirit) but what she was doing was unseemly. She kept speaking in tongues but it was never interpreted for the church and she went to certain individuals and was laying hands on them and rubbing on them (she was supposed to be healing them). She became very aggressive and at one point it appeared as if she was telling the minister off in tongues. She also told several people to get out the church. It caused a great deal of confusion and we knew that was not God. However, her family (the leaders) are claiming that she was under God's annointing and that she was prophecying and healing people.

They claim that someone could interpret what she was saying but when asked what was the message, we were told that the Lord told them to keep it a secret because the congregation isn't strong enough to bear what was said. We wanted a meeting to discuss this and they refused to give us one. The wife of the pastor was really nasty and told people if they do not like it, they do not have to come to that church. Also, they started to prophecy about people dying because we are against God.

How does this picture sound to you? Your whole description of events is so anti-scriptural (regarding order and purpose of gifts), that I would be out there with no regrets or second thoughts.

Tammy, come out of her and don't look back.

JMHO...

[pastorb]

Run, Run!!!!!!

Ron you are so funny, but you are also so right.

Their is no anointing there, just the enemy.

[Tammy]

I think they have cleared out the entire church.

[Adoniyah]

Tammy,

Did the tongues sound like "Quack, quack, quack, quack?" If so, you might say that it was all quackery. Quackery is what quacks do when they quack.

You have just learned how a preacher and his family can destroy a church in one easy lesson. It works every time.

Pray and depend on the Lord to lead you as to where to go.

[drummerboy_dave]

Tammy, that doesn't sound like God, to me.

We're supposed to follow our pastors, only if they're following Jesus.

I join my brethren in denouncing the type of behavior you have mentioned. Having a granddaughter, it doesn't sound as if the pastor is merely suffering from inexperience either.

How sad. :cry:


Lord, help your people understand.

[Goodshepherd]

If this is really true, I will second that this sound very strange and confusing................ GOD is absolutely not the author of confusion. There must be another spirit they are mistaking the Holy Ghost with.........

[Oldpreach]

I think you dont even need advice on this one. Its just so plain...Ray Charles cold see that!

Anyway , just one more example of the out of place hierarchy in many Apostolic groups today. The "one man" concept again running amuk. If there were a group of elders in place , it would be much more likely that something like this would have never taken place. Truly power-madness having its way here.

[Tammy]

Adoniyah, no, the tongues did not sound like any type of animal sounds. Goodshephard, they are not mistaking this spirit for the Holyghost. They just want to be right because they are on a deeper level in Christ than the rest of the congregation.

[Tammy]

Oldpreach,
Actually my pastor was not in church that day. He is in ill health and he is up in age. He just went along with whatever his wife and daughter told him but he was not there to SEE all what this girl was doing and they never told him the entire story.

[ddc101]

Sister Tammy,
What a wierd (and I mean I have seen and heard some wierd stuff) situation.This kind of thing went on a lot during what many apostolics call the Latter Rain Movement.It made many leary of the gifts of God but the gifts are still for the church.God is so good.To bad you're way up in Pittsburgh.I am sure however that there are very good apostolic churches nearby and God will lead you to the right one.Sometimes people are so hungry for a move of God that they will let anything in.lv sis.c

[dllong]

Tammy,

Those women don't walk around with long hat pins and familiar looking dolls do they?

(shutter)

Dave


ps. Run while you still can honey!

[Goodshepherd]

haha............. Bro. Dave, I love your sense of humor ..............lol

your so funny

[survivor4christ]

Surefire signs of spiritual witchcraft in the church...

1. Control and manipulation used to cause people to submit.

2. Use of spiritual gifts (or counterfeits) to manipulate people.

3. Secret prayer meetings, exclusivity, classism in the body of believers. Revelations and words from the Lord that cannot be shared with the whole body.

4. Threats of excommunication, death, being cut off if non-compliant to leadership.

5. Almost always, nepotism. Keep it in the family. Leadership positions almost always held for blood relatives or long time family friends.

6. Lack of accountability among the leadership. "It's their word and no one better question it" mentality.

The only hope for this congregation is if there is a overall coup of leadership.. God will in His Time take care of this...

God Bless, Tammy!
Love, Sis. Wenona

[nytxn1971]

You're so right, Wenona. So very right.

[BroDane]

Sister Tammy, I am not in your shoes, I am not you.

I will urge you to pray about this deeply, I do not believe that what happened as you say it did is of God.

However, God has done you no wrong. I would encourage you to seek the Lord and Find a good Jesus name church and not let a Root of bitterness grow inside you because of this as Jesus wants you in the kingdom and we do too.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;

[servant]

Tammy,
I don't like the sounds of it. Sis Wenona seemed to sum it up concerning withcraft in the church.

Serv :)

[Tammy]

Sis. Wenona,

I believe that you are right. We eventually had a meeting but nothing was resolved because they keep insisting that that was of God but they haven't given us scripture (because there is none that supports their stance.) Anyway, the one "prophetess" told a group of us that she understood what her daughter was saying in tongues so we asked her what was the message. She told us that the Lord said that it was not for the church and to keep it private. I mentioned that to her at the meeting and she said that she never said that.

[Oldpreach]

Again Tammy , run for your life ! There is just no need to go back there even one more time. Its 50 times over out of control and you arent going to be able to do much about it unless God literally smote them of the donkey so to say.

[Jesusonly]

Dear Tammy, I got to agree with everyone on this topic. I don't care if they are apostolic or not, if they are doing thing that is not in the bible please leave and find a good oneness church in your area. whatever you do don't let these people turn you away from the truth. I will be praying for you in Jesus name.

[Tammy]

I would like to thank everyone for their input on the situation. I was told that I should not move until the Lord tells me, but I do not agree with the situation and I know that was not of God and to stay would mean that I am in agreement. Also, I would always wonder when the next time one of them will pop up and go off.

[amanda]

You can always count on the true believers prayers. You can sometimes feel it when they are praying for you. God Bless! and take care, whatever you feel you should do, we're praying.

[survivor4christ]

Hey, Bro. Ron!

Congrats again on the wedding!

How's your wife? I love to hear of people getting hitched!

Go with God, Sis. Tammy!

Love, Sis. Wenona

[drummerboy_dave]

When you said, "...to stay would mean that I am in agreement.", you struck the nerve that caused me to find a different church, when I was in a situation, similiar to yours.

The main thing is always, that we follow Christ. Yet, when we also have a man of God, in whom we can deeply trust; we are then getting the full package, God intended for us to have. Are you willing to throw that kind of a blessing away?

Consider your options carefully and prayerfully.

[mfblume]

Tammy,

The Bible teaches quite strongly in 1 Cor 14 that a message in tongues ought not be shouted out unless there is one to interpret. So its absolutely against the Bible for them to say the tongues should not be interpreted because the message is too strong for the church.

Sounds like absolute nonsense going on there, to me.

[BroRutledge]

There is only one think I can think of that is much worse than one man going amuk and that is a group of men that go amuk.