It's sometimes hard being good friends with a trinitarian.

[Whosoever Will]

I'm sure you know what I mean. You have a relationship with someone based on work or a hobby, but they aren't Jesus name. The conversation somehow turns to the Lord with regularity(which IS a great thing, by the way), and your trinitarian friend wants to show you how much he or she knows about scripture and wants to see how much you have in common with him, and he forces you to either agree or disagree with him, which always ends up coming down to salvation, mode of water baptism, Holy Ghost baptism, etc., because you NEED him to understand that he is in utter darkness, but you try not to come right out and say it at first. Your trinitarian friend thinks you have everything all wrong, and just can't fathom your dislike and utter disapproval of trinitarian baptism, etc., so you go round and round with him in the word, but he just doesn't see it, even though it's right there in black and white.

My trinitarian friend recently felt called into the ministry, and he is now attending seminary classes for his denomination. He has tried really hard to get me to attend with him, but I have tried to explain that we don't have much in common regarding how we see scripture, and therefore I'm not interested. He kept inviting me, so the other day I asked him if they were going to let me teach, and of course he said no. Then we had a 45 minute discussion on the godhead and baptism, in which he spat out all of the false doctrine that they are teaching him. He doesn't know it for himself, he just trusts what he is told. He went on and on and on about what he believed and what he thought and how they do things, and how they are right and how we are not, until I finally told him that "you can do all of that and still die lost and go to hell", to which he replied, "I don't think so".

I've explained it to him from every single angle I've ever heard, and he just doesn't get it. I've quoted John, and I've quoted Genesis, I've quoted Acts, and I've quoted Colossians, but to no avail. The more of that garbage that they teach him, the farther away he's led by them. I'm beginning to believe that the trinitarian churches are just wolves in sheeps' clothing when it comes to the gospel. They might as well all be catholics. They teach everyone lies, and make it much more difficult to teach them the truth.

PRAISE THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD!!!:bow:

[BroRutledge]

Whosoever Will

There is a thread somewhere on the GNC for Trinity Oneness discussions...

I need you or bro John to close this thread and move your post to that thread..

I am busy right now or I would do it.

We only have one thread for oneness trinity discussions...

Thanks

BroRutledge

[Whosoever Will]

I didn't think this was typical trinity/oneness stuff.

[O2blikehim]

"because you NEED him to understand that he is in utter darkness, but you try not to come right out and say it at first"

"still die lost and go to hell"

WOW! I am surprised he is still your friend, I wouldn't dare say that to a trinitarian believer that I DIDN'T LIKE.

My advice would be to pray for him and respect him as a fellow believer - and tell him this. I think you will go further toward winning him that way.

IMHO,

Stephen

[Whosoever Will]

He is a good friend, my barber, and my only hunting partner. We duck and goose hunt together. As a matter of fact, he got me started in waterfowling. If he'd just do the Acts 2:38 thing, it would be great. I've been in Arkansas for more than 2 years, and he's my only semi-close friend, outside of church.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!

"...can two walk together AND NOT be agreed?"

Beloved, the reason you and your friend are arguing so much is because you are not agreed. The very doctrines you both espouse is dividing your 'friendship'. The Lord has placed a Sword between you, and your friend is but flailing against it.

Beloved, seek fellowship with those of the same mind and accord.

Brother Villa

[O2blikehim]

Same mind and accord can be difficult to reach in all areas, but yes I agree.

Some of my closest Christian friends are Luthren and Baptist people. We do not agree on all points of course, but we do all agree that Jesus Christ is the messiah and is God come in flesh, and that he is the only mediator between God and man. This is a good start and has formed bonds of brotherly love among us that would be very difficult to break.

In Jesus, Stephen

[John Atkinson]

I tend to hold the viewpoint that the only "fellow believers" are people who submit to water baptism in Jesus name, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I think there are trinitarians who ARE believers, but when presented the full truth they submit to it. The ones who reject it ARE NOT believers. Because they do not believe the word of the Lord.

Perhaps they are believers in the Baptist faith or the Catholic faith or whatever. But the rubber meets the road at Submission to Jesus Name.

Considering them "brethren" and of the household of faith I do believe to be one the gravest errors and a step downward into the ecumenical system that says "We are good, you are good, we are all good. You can be baptized in the titles, that is fine, you are still my brother"

Sorry if I offend, as this isn't a personal attack against anyone, but a statement that Apostolic Network will NEVER, EVER, EMBRACE, CONDONE, or CODDLE the people in our movement who are embracing the false doctrine that states there is ANY WAY OTHER THAN THE WAY!

I have Friends who are Catholic, Methodist, AOG and others. They are not my Christian Friends. They are my Friends who have the opportunity of becoming Christians.

Those brethren who were first called Christians in Antioch were everyone Baptized in Jesus Name, Filled with the Holy Ghost and living a separated life.

Now I want you to know that I have never been guilty of preaching "at", blasting, deriding or otherwise comporting myself in a un-christlike manner to my friends and relations who belong to a trinity denomination. That is ungodly. And I also understand that reaching them may take years of careful, prayerful reaching. But I never reach the point of treating them as brethren in the household of faith. By so doing I would be giving tacit approval to whatever doctrine they believe and saying they are just fine the way they are.

But any relationship I have with these folks is from the standpoint of saint reaching for sinner. Not the fellowship of the saints.

I am not one to mince words, but a good old boy Baptist Preacher is just as big a sinner as the wino passed out under the bridge. In fact he is more dangerous than the drunk, as he is telling people they can be saved outside of God's plan.

Well I have said my bit.

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally posted by O2blikehim
Same mind and accord can be difficult to reach in all areas, but yes I agree.

Some of my closest Christian friends are Luthren and Baptist people. We do not agree on all points of course, but we do all agree that Jesus Christ is the messiah and is God come in flesh, and that he is the only mediator between God and man. This is a good start and has formed bonds of brotherly love among us that would be very difficult to break.

In Jesus, Stephen Thank you, for posting that, Bro. Stephen. With an attitude like that, there is plenty of room for God to use you, to show them the truth of the gospel.

[John Atkinson]

Can Two Walk Together?
— Bro James Groce
http://www.christianquill.com/bible_studies/jlg_cantwo.htm


Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Amos 3:3

While it seems that many advocate that it is possible for two to walk together when not agreed, the question, however, was not meant to be debatable, it is a statement of fact. It is the Bible’s way of asking a question that is not a question. “How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation?” Is another example of the same use of making a statement in query form.

There seems to be many today that think Amos was asking a question and was seeking an answer as to how to accomplish a duo of harmony out of two opposing beliefs. And apparently some seem to think they have discovered an answer to give to poor clueless Amos. The current “bridge-building” to the Trinitarians seems to one such example, along with those amazing problem solvers that have learned to not let holiness become a obstacle to fellowship with the world. Ah, Amos! Seems that many have an answer for you today. It may have taken a while, but they finally came through for you! I know you are grateful.

However, some of us still cannot deduce how one overcomes the following laws pertaining to walking together:

Any two who wish to walk together must agree on certain basics: timing, pace, destination, direction and purpose.




TIMING. Walking together demands agreement in timing: when and how long shall we walk. "Can two walk together, except they be agreed" in timing? Of course not. All other factors being equal, if they start out even 30 seconds apart they cannot walk together. In a spiritual sense, will you walk by the world's schedule or by God's? In this life you never walk alone; timing often determines (or at least reveals) who your travel companion is. Anyone outside of the full salvation of Acts 2:38 is out of time with God!




PACE. Walking together requires agreement in pace: what shall be our rate of travel. "Can two walk together, except they be agreed" on the pace? Not for very long! Though they may start out together, a difference in pace will soon separate them. Spiritually we must keep our eyes on the Master or our pace shall become synchronized with that of the world. For the record, no one sets his own pace. Jer 6:16, “Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.” The highway of holiness is still the right path. Isa 35:8,9, “And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein. No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:” The world walks to the beat of a different drummer. God’s people are to keep pace with God—not men!




DESTINATION. Walking together supposes agreement in destination: where shall we go. "Can two walk together, except they be agreed" in destination? Not for the long term. Especially if the destinations are in opposite directions or at right angles to each other. Starting out with Jesus is not enough; to have walked together with Him you need to still be with Him at the walk's end. Why some say “All roads lead to Rome,” we must remember it is not Rome that we are headed toward! The New Birth experience is the only way to enter the kingdom of God; “Except a man be born of water and Spirit he CANNOT enter!” Heaven is a common word—but not a common destination!




DIRECTION. Walking together presumes agreement in direction: what route shall we take. "Can two walk together, except they be agreed" in direction? Hardly. Even if the course we chart differs only by half a degree, we shall eventually be walking separately. In the spiritual dimension, are you walking straight with the Lord or are you twisting, turning and backtracking with the world? And make certain that in carelessness or curiosity you do not steer a course that is different from the Lord's even by the minutest degree! The revelation of the Mighty God in Christ sets a direction that cannot be compromised with anyone! Holiness of mind, body and spirit sets a direction the world does not wish to follow.




PURPOSE. Walking together hinges on agreement in purpose: why shall we do this. "Can two walk together, except they be agreed" in purpose? Never! You see, purpose governs the other areas of agreement we've noted here. The spiritual application cannot be escaped: our purpose in life's walk both determines and reveals with whom we walk together. If salvation can be accomplished by any other method than Acts 2:38 then hands can be linked to any so-called, card-signing, accepting-the-Lord, water-sprinkling, sensor-swinging, angel-worshipping adherents, BUT if Acts 2:38 obedience in fullness is the only plan of salvation then it is impossible to have a common purpose with those that do not preach and teach the same!
There you have it. With whom are you walking? Then that's with whom you are in agreement. If the answer makes you at all uncomfortable, beware! Evaluate these five criteria in your own life, make the necessary corrections and modifications . . . and walk with the Lord!

[John Atkinson]

Count this as an Admin warning as well:

If you hold the ecumenical, make common cause with the trinitarians mindset, you are welcome to it.

DON'T BRING IT HERE! This is and will remain an Apostolic Board.

Now that isn't pointed at anyone, I just see where this thread might possibly go and I am saying with a loud clear voice...DON'T GO THERE!

[O2blikehim]

"I am not one to mince words, but a good old boy Baptist Preacher is just as big a sinner as the wino passed out under the bridge. In fact he is more dangerous thatn the drunk, as he is telling people they can be saved outside of God's plan."

I just could not agree with this I guess. Of course in a sense we are all sinners even now, daily falling short of God's holiness. So it is only by imputed righteousness that any man may claim pardon of sin. And certainly if any man is spared sin it is because of the mercy of Jesus and not by our own doings.

I view Christians outside this apostolic tradition as having a real experience with our God, and see the various organizations as stepping stones toward the truth of JESUS. Not as our enemies or as serving a heathen God etc.. Even when they reject what I share, my love for them hopes it was my presentation, or my inability to communicate effectively, and not a heart that is at enmity with God that repelled my message.

I understand there are limits to acceptance and kinship with other Christians. If any purported to preach another way to God or salvation outside Jesus Christ we would have little to share.

In Jesus, Stephen

[John Atkinson]

Bro Stephen,
I have to agree with some of your assessment and disagree with some of it.

Once we are redeemed we are no longer sinners. The term "sinner saved by grace" is un-scriptural. We were sinners, then grace drew us to repentance, the blood washed us, and the Holy Ghost empowered and renewed us and sealed us unto redemption.

Now we are no longer sinners, but saints of the most high. There is no gray area. One is either a sinner or a saint, saved or lost, justified or condemned. There is no middle ground. There are no such thing as "partially saved"

And yes all of that comes from him and none of it from us.

I agree that many people have had an experience with God. I agree that many of the people in these denominations are sincere in their search for truth and have experienced healing, blessing, some have received the real Holy Ghost.

But all that is to lead them forward, and yes, we (traditional apostolics) are often a stumbling block to them that would go forward and I believe many will answer to God for that.

I am not saying that these people have not had an experienced a touch or move or drawing of God.

I am saying they are not Christians yet, they are not "saved" yet if one wants to use the word.

That is why we the people with the truth have to be careful when handling these people that Jesus died for. We have to stay prayed up and follow the leading of the Holy Ghost in conversation, in action and activity, all of that. Because many of these folks, who love God, who God called to the gospel of peace are walking a tightrope with heaven on one side and hell on the other.

And here we are with the power to tip them one way or the other. By following a prideful spirit and religious arrogance we can kill them with attitude. But we can also kill them with compromise, just as fast, just as terminally.



Many of them, despite how many steps they have taken have some of the same spiritual arrogance that will not let go of the trinity, trinity baptism and the false doctrines of the world's religions. When they are presented with the truth in love, and they consciously and repeatedly reject it in favor of their doctrines, they prove unbelief. That bothers me. That someone will embrace the Bible and then willingly and willfully reject something that is very clear.

What does the Bible say of this sort?

Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul preached the Gospel. He preached Repentance, Jesus Name Baptism, and the Holy Ghost. We need to be careful. We understand the the Gospel is by definition the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Co 15:1-4). But you cannot separate the Gospel from the new birth experience. Acts 2:38 is so tightly wound up in the preaching of the Gospel that you cannot separate it.

The whole point of the Good News is so that we might be born again. We are not born without the water and the Spirit. The water being baptism in THE NAME of Jesus Christ, not titles, and the Spirit being the infilling of the Holy Ghost, the breath of the new life. Without these components we cannot realize a state of being Col 2:10 ...complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

It is possible that some of the folks we might call Friend and brother, God may be calling accursed.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It is entirely possible that some of our "Christian" friends cannot see the truth of Acts 2:38 because they have rejected it to the point that God himself has allowed them to believe a lie and be damned.

We reach out to people in love. But we stop at a certain point. We don't bind together with them. But we continue reaching, and teaching. But we cannot walk with them any distance down the road.

We are their only hope. We continue to love them cry out for them and preach to (not at) them. But we don't go to where they are and say that they are fine there.

I say follow the Holy Ghost. In all things. If we do we will not turn them away with harshness, nor lead them astray with compromise.

BTW, there are a couple of Trinitarians that I view as "my brother", but I always qualify that with "by faith". They are not there yet, but I have every expectation that they will be.

One of these is a Nazerene Pastor named Paul. I would ask prayer for him, he has received the real Holy Ghost, and I believe he was being led forward, but he has disapeared I am really wanting to get ahold of him and am asking that if it be God's will that we come in contact again. If not I, then someone else of this way.

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally posted by O2blikehim
"I view Christians outside this apostolic tradition as having a real experience with our God, and see the various organizations as stepping stones toward the truth of JESUS. Not as our enemies or as serving a heathen God etc.. Even when they reject what I share, my love for them hopes it was my presentation, or my inability to communicate effectively, and not a heart that is at enmity with God that repelled my message.

I understand there are limits to acceptance and kinship with other Christians. If any purported to preach another way to God or salvation outside Jesus Christ we would have little to share.

In Jesus, Stephen Brother, you have a wonderful spirit. I hope we can see more of your posts, in the future. We need them.

[O2blikehim]

Bro Atkinson, I will pray for your preacher friend Paul.

Drummerboy, you are so kind... May God bless you much.

In Christ, Stephen