What is this spirit?

[ddc101]

After speaking at length to my Pastor,husband we thought it a good idea to ask advice from some of you who are in the ministry and have wrestled with this.Or maybe your pastor has wrestled with this before.If you have give us advice.
Heres the scenario: We are working in an area establishing a new work.We have been here 2 going on the third year.In this time we have won many people.In fact when we were still at our mother church we baptised more people than our pastor.
Heres what happens here; We win people and God fills them with the Holy Ghost.I mean people who have never experienced anything like this before as we are the only Apostolic Church in our city.And then a few weeks down the road someone meets them or someone in their family convinces them to go to another church.They then become discontent with the small church here and leave or they don't go back to church anywhere.In fact one couple had gone to a church in another city for two years and never received the Holy Ghost.They stopped going all together.
Bro.Cooper and I received a call to visit them.We taught them a bible study and in two weeks they received the Holy Ghost.Then people began to pull on them.They went back to visit the former church and all kinds of things were said about us and how they needed to go back to that church.In fact the elder from the named church ended up apologizing to us.But to late the family moved and the lady died lost within a few short months.
This spirit doesn't mind someone going to church just not here.
Can you name it? Witchcraft,Idolatry we know but what is this?
sis.c

[jbenjesus]

I read this text recently and I thought of your situation. I'll post it, but how it applies, I'm not too sure:

Luke 11:21-26 KJV When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: (22) But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. (23) He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. (24) When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. (25) And when he cometh, he findeth [it] swept and garnished. (26) Then goeth he, and taketh [to him] seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first.

[ddc101]

Thank you brother for the scripture.I want to share that when anyone is breaking new ground they are dealing with an old spirit that has had a comfortable throne.The prince over the city where we are hates us being here.He has more than once run ther preachers off.He doesn't bother saints who live here and go to another city but when they are a part of a work here the war is on.But we are not giving up ground.We used to have only one Sunday service due to work scedule of I and pastor but today we started having two on Sunday...take that devil...we will prainse the One True God twice as much....lv sis.C

[Truthseeker]

DDC101

I think lack of integrety in some ministries contributes to what you post. It should be strongly taught that the memebers of one church doesn't try to get memebers of another church to come to their church.
I thinks it's called sheep stealing.

Then of course the devil would prorbably want them to change to a sheep stealing church because a sheep staeling church usually lacks substance that's why they try to get people already saved to come, they can't win a lost soul.

If you guys are soul winners, then you have spiritual substance that the sheep stealers lack. So I would think the devil would fight a saint more when under a ministry that has substance verses being under one of these lacking sheep stealing churches.

Just my opinion.

[foreverblessed]

Ddc,
I don't believe it is so much a spirit.
My parents faced this, and I am sure my brother will always face the fact that our church is 18 miles from Calvary Tabernacle, Indianapolis Indiana. Calvary is so large that many people like the programs that they have to offer. Their youth group is large with many activities. They have a lot to offer people.

We have lost well over 100 people over the years to Calvary. Many of these people came in under my father's ministry. Calvary's Pastor, Bro. Paul Mooney himself is out of our church, and my Father was his pastor before he left to go on the field and eventually moved to MI. Bro. Dan Butler from CA, that used to hold an general office in the UPCI, is originally from our church, the Butler family (Dan Butler's Father and Mother) was won to God by my father. They left because they wanted a larger church, that was more in their economic status. These things hurt when people you won to the lord and baptized in the Name of Jesus, decide to move on, and our church isn't shabby by no means, and has stood strong in the truth for many years.

It doesn't do anyone any good to get upset, people are going to go where they want to go. Every new convert will at some point get invited to visit the larger church and usually there is a tug for them to go.
I personally think that the some of the Pastors of the larger churches should teach their saints the importance of not pulling on people from smaller churches.
Bro. Rob is right, there is a lack of integrity among some ministers and saints. They should respect the smaller churches, and discourgage anyone from attending when they should be at their home church.

Another way, and I think my brother is handleing it, is keep the saints and the new people busy. Give them something to do for God, regardless of how small. Keep in close fellowship with them. So far this has kept all of our new people from straying.

[Joan]

ddc, have you ever read The Glorious Church? It's not a church growth book. It's more than that. It's inspiring to say the least. It would bless you and your husband greatly I'm sure. You can dowload it for free. Contact Jim@Gloriouschurch.com. He'll get you the info.

[Joan]

foreverblessed, I used to live in Indpls. Where is your church? We lived there when we first got saved. Bro. Hunt was our pastor in Lawrence. We lived in indpls for 2 years and never set foot in Calvary. I wish we had at least visited. Now I buy their music CDs. I liked our little church in Lawrence. In the years we were there we only had one family leave for Calvary and I think they were originally from there.

[ddc101]

Yes sister Joan,
I have read the Glorious Church.
Thank you all for responding.
I think we live in a day of hype versus the word.People are out there looking for churches to appease their flesh.And I cannot blame those who are looking for activities for their children.
But honestly we do have the actiivites.We are small but not out of touch.
I found an answer I had been looking for.One service not very long ago I sat by a sister in church.The enemy warring her mind about the pastor.All I could hear in the spirit realm was how we need another pastor,how the pastor could not preach to suit her,
etc etc etc.Then I realized that one of the babies in the Lord had been sitting next to this woman every service and had begun to church shop.A new person cannot discern what is their thoughts,
what is Gods voice and what is the devil or the warfare of another.This is something that a person realizes with growth.
Its called recognizing your enemy.After hearing what I heard from the Lord I began to pray against that thing.Now things are getting better.It takes wisdom to consult the Lord as to what the problem is.I don't care the size of the church as I have also belonged to 1000 member congregations and believe me its not in numbers.Its teaching the new folks to get into the realm of the
Spirit and discern the voice of the enemy.lv sis.c

[ddc101]

I wanted to share that because sometimes people are not only being bombarded by spirits but are actually entertaining them to really watch what you agree to in conversation with someone warring this because these things do trail and begin to speak to you.lv sis.c

[Pastor D]

Sis.C
I have been pastoring in Burlington for eight years. In our early days we had a lot of visitors who came were blessed, delivered, baptized, but would not stay. At that time were were very small--about 10-15 people total, counting children. It was frustrating. I knew that the root cause was no matter how much truth I preached, and how much people were blessed, some people are acclamated to church with choirs, organs, musicians, and lots of people. I had to go back to the Lord and ask God to send in workers that had a heart for this ministry so I could develop the kind of ministry that would attract and sustain people. God answered. Now as new faces come into the church, they see a choir with a staff of organists, drummers, bass and horn players, they see ushers, deacons, etc. We are now retaining more than ever. Our congregation in the last eight years has grown from 8 to over 150 people. God has blessed. Be encouraged!

Pastor D

[ddc101]

Pastor D,
I did not see this post until today.Thank you for the encouragement.From eight to over one hundred fifty in eight years is wonderful.We have been praying for workers that have a heart for ministry as well.It seems as though people come by but are in the market for church instead of having a burden.We have people living in our field of labor who drive over forty five minutes for their children to be involved in a larger work but honestly if they came here we could have a wonderful youth group.We are always doing something.In fact we have many single,divorced and widowed folks who fellowship each other daily.But because many are new converts they cannot and do not have the knowledge to teach sunday school etc.
Honestly Brother when folks start coming it seems like every other person who goes to apostolic church goes by their houses to see if they wouldn't rather attend their church.
Here was my experience today.....We have been praying for young people to fellowship with our oldest daughter.She is thirteen years old.Well the Lord sent us a girl her age.Her parents go to a full gospel church and she goes over to her pentcostal friends on the weekends who live and hour and a half from here.She wants to go to pentecostal church.Her mom has been calling us and inviting me and my daughter ice skating on homeschool pe day at the hockey plex.Today when I went the lady from the church where the girl attends very infrequently all but shoved these folks in her car to make sure that they did not attend our church.She honestly wants them to drive an hour and a half one way instead of come to services in the city where they live.This kind of things happens all the time.We are the only Oneness,Jesus Name Apostolic church in our city.When we moved here churches from fourteen to twenty miles away were commenting that they didn't want us stealing their saints.Brother when you live in an area that has sixty five hundred souls headed for hell believe me you aren't setting your sights on souls living twenty miles away.We have a burden for souls here.If the people who live here would get a burden for their cities instead of their individual churches what a work could be done for Jesus.I am not concerned with buildings or ministries etc.I am concerned for souls and that the graveyard would quit filling up with lost people.lv sis.c

[jwharvell]

I have learned one thing in my life. Keep in good fellowship with all the other Apostolic Pastors and churchs around you. In my up bringing in the church and my short time at pastoring one, I found it is sad that some Apostolic ministers have a my 4 and no more attitude. Meaning come to my church, stay away from that church, or I feel thats not Gods will for you. I know in Alabama I ran into this problem all through out my life. If you decided to switch church's if you didn't get your letter then you basicly weren't allowed to come back and if you asked for a letter from the pastor to switch he gave you the "your out of Gods will speach". There was no fellowship between church's when I was young so when we got to be teenagers we of course desired to go to the church's with the youth groups. Now that I am older and have moved around the country a little I have found areas that have church's that fellowship often between members and youth don't have a large member stealing problem. They actualy are willing to help the smaller works more often. You will always have church hoppers thats some peoples nature. Yet the attitude of a pastor also is usualy the attitude of a church so if you can build great relationships and fellowship circles those people who are pulling at your converts may change.

[JSP]

Sis Cooper,

For what its worth and I have established 2 home missions works that are doing well.

You and your husband have got to outlove all the others in town.

Trust me if you will love more than anyone else you will have them staying and learning to love just like you.

People want to be loved and cared for just like sheep.

My 2 cents, just trying to help

:bow:

[Pastor D]

Sis C:
God has a season for all things. When our church started with the eight, we grew within few months to about seventeen. Then we grew to about thirty-forty. At that point, we came to a stand still and I almost got discouraged and gave up simply because the Lord had shown me that our church would be a quick work as it relates to growth. In one of my prayer times of asking God for more souls, He spoke to me and said love and feed what I have given you and I will send more. In 1999, the Lord led our church into a prayer revival that started a growth spurt that has extended over four years and has added 120 people to our congregation. Be faithful, remain focused in the vision and love the people that God has entrusted in you and your husband's hands. He will give the increase.

Stay encouraged!
Pastor D

[ddc101]

Thank you so much brothers for the encouraging words.One thing
is for sure...we love the saints.We have been praying that our church would be PHILEDELPHIA in the Spirit and have brotherly love and the Lord has answered.
Since I posted my last post a family with seven children who were driving over thirty miles to church decided to come and help.What a blessing.We are not only growing but now have another sunday school teacher.lv sis.c

[Pastor D]

Sis C:
I am happy for you. God knows how and God knows when.

Pastor D

[ddc101]

I am asking not only pastors but deliverance team members.
Can you name this spirit.It causes a person to be overly demonstrative in service.It screams for attention in service especially during song service.So much that the musicians can barely hear themselves think.They are out there cutting cartwheels etc drawing attention to themselves.It is not the flesh because it screams with the voice of a lunatic.So tell me if you have heard this before or cast it out? lv sis.c

[RevDooley]

Hey Sister C.
Yes, I have seen it a couple of times. I was at a men's conference where there was this guy who ran around doing all kinds of crazy things. He was calling out to Jesus, yet you could tell it wasn't real.
I also remember a man that came to my old church in Pensacola. He was lame because of the spirit. They began to pray for him and I heard the voice cry out. I knew it wasn't that man, but several people were still praying for him.
It is in Acts when Paul was being followed by the woman with the unclean spirit. She kept crying out that these were men of the most high God. When Paul got tired of it, he cast it out. Same type of spirit.
In regards to your question, I believe it to be a spirit of divination. That is the only one that sems to cry out in that manner. It is so religious that the individual who carries it is unaware of what it is. They think that they are so spiritual, yet they are in desperate need. this is why it is difficult to deal with.
Many in the church will treat it as if it is of God. That is a lack of discernement on their part. They think that the person is sincere, when in actuality it is a spirit that is very deceptive. I believe it is one of the most dangerous ones out there.
Don't be afraid of it (though, knowing you I doubt that you are) because we as the church have full authority over it.
God bless. Hope this helps.

[ddc101]

Hi Brother Ray,
I apprieciate your answer.For a long time Bro.Cooper and I have both felt this spirit was witchcraft.But just last night the brother being tormented by it sat down with us and discussed the issue.He is aware that this happens to him.It is so bad that when it manifests I cannot even hear my thoughts and everyone in the building ends up paying him the attention.Once someone told him it was a spirit of convulsions.But that is not it.The nature of the spirit is what has to acutally be called out.This things nature is manifested as 1.Arragance2.affectation(pretending)3.Theatrics
4.Mockery.It screams so loud you cannot even think.He wants deliverance and we want him delivered.We are back on a forty day vigil starting this week.This man has been tormented by this thing for years.But him recognizing it is half the battle.lv sis.c

[Just Jesus]

Just wondering if you've figured out what the spirit was/is and if it's been cast out yet?

[Deonna]

When I read your post, ddc, the parable of the sower came to mind.

Don't be discouraged. It's God's Kingdom. Just keep doing what you can to build it. The seed you've planted will not return void. It could be that the seed will begin to sprout years down the road as another waters?

[ddc101]

Hi Just Jesus yes the man did get delivered.And its so awesome.He himself described the spirit and knew what it was.That was most of the battle.Now he is clear minded and worships the correct way with all his heart.It is so good to see someone get delivered.Sometimes all it takes is repentance but then sometimes it takes more.lv sis.c

[BrotherBallard]

Brother when you live in an area that has sixty five hundred souls headed for hell believe me you aren't setting your sights on souls living twenty miles away.We have a burden for souls here.If the people who live here would get a burden for their cities instead of their individual churches what a work could be done for Jesus.I am not concerned with buildings or ministries etc.I am concerned for souls and that the graveyard would quit filling up with lost people.lv sis.cSis. Cooper,
If your husband and you are there for souls, and you feel that area is your hearts burden and following the Purpose that God has in your life, then stand strong on His Word!

I Cor. 3:6,7

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

You could possibly use this scripture for lost souls:

Ps. 126:5,6 They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

God may be trying you, to bring you through the fire. Keep the Faith!!! Keep reaching for lost souls! God will bring forth the increase!!!

Remember God wants the souls more than we as humans do, He died for us!!!

Like other situations we may face, once your through this one, in turn you will be able to lend a helping hand to those who are in similar crisis!

In His Name!!!

[ddc101]

Brother Ballard,
Thank you for the encouragment.Tonight we went to visit a church we used to attend when our fourteen year old daughter was born.We moved because of a job.But we heard they had revival.The evangelist quoted the very scripture you posted about sowing in tears.We are in no way discouraged.The Lord has encouraged us a great deal.In fact we are more encouraged than we have been in a long time.I see more souls coming out of darkness as we pray and push back the darkness.We have been through the hardest part of the storm.Establishing the work was the hardest.We are way past planting the work and into growing it.lv sis.c

[OneGodDivine]

Deuteronomy 6
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

Sis I'm not a minister yet, just a wannabe. But I think that the key to success depends on education/indoctrination not simply relying on the Spirit to reveal all truth to them but jump right in and start teaching as quick as possible, if they are going to leave anyway you have nothing to lose. I think a major mistake made by ministers in our movement is belief that all they need will come from the pulpit during the preaching. In my case I didn't get it till the pastor sat down with me and went through the scripture intensely.

[ddc101]

oneGodDivine,
One day the door will open and you will step in.Thanks for the encouragement.My husband just go finished teaching the entire book Oneness of God by Brother Bernard and now he's onto The New Birth since we have new ones.lv sis.c