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jbenjesus
10-08-2003, 10:34 AM
I don't ever post here, but I thought it was a nice article to post, and because it seemed written to mom's and women, I thought I would post in the Ladies Discussions thread.

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The "S" Word

Submission. There is nothing ugly about this word. There is nothing in this word that should make you cringe. There is nothing in this word that should conjure up images of weakness. In fact, submission is a form of power. The truth is you can’t force someone to submit. A husband can’t force a wife to submit, a parent can’t force a child to submit, a pastor can’t force a saint to submit. You can force obedience. But not submission.

This is why God told the wife to submit to her husband and didn’t tell the husband to make her submit. There is not husband on earth who can make a wife submit to his authority. Submission is a matter of the heart. If a person’s heart is right with God they will submit themselves one to another.

It turns my stomach for a woman to say she “hates submission”. The definition of this statement is that she hates the plan of God for her life. I’ve also heard women say, “I know I should be more submitted but… blah, blah, blah…” Don’t think that you are in tune with God if this is your normal feeling about yours and your husband’s positions! You simply do not understand that your spirit is not right with God if you hate to submit.

Jesus Christ submitted himself to those who had the rightful authority in his life, and for you to not submit to your husband is a slap in Jesus’ face! If he had to submit, so do you! Again, let me reiterate, submission is not a weakness! It is a power! And when you truly submit you gain more power!

Some of the mothers reading this are currently having problems with their children fighting all day. It drives you crazy! Do you know why they fight each other? Because none of the children are submitted to each other! It is the proper and natural order for someone to be submitted to the other if life is to progress peacefully. If you are not submitted to your husband, yet you do not fight all the time amongst yourselves… watch out! This probably means that your husband is submitted to you! You and your husband are a team, but every team must have a captain, every village must have a chief, etc. Somebody in your marriage has to be the boss and God decided it would be your husband.

Now I’m sorry if you did not know this before you got married, but it still applies to your life (and to that man) today and forever more. If your husband is smart, or not so smart, fast, or slow, loves to make decisions or hates to make them, it is your place to be submitted to him. Now if he, in his position of authority decides that decisions are yours, than they are your decisions to make. But if he makes them … You’d better pray thru and deal with it! God will bless you and “work all things out for the good” if you are living in His will. God will protect you. But if you are hating every day, hating your man for “what he’s done”, hating the decisions he’s made… You’ll constantly, day in and day out, “kick against the pricks”. (Like Paul was doing trying to avoid the will of God for him.) But if you will submit to God by submitting to your husband you will find joy in the journey and see the Lord’s hand give you strength and intervention on your behalf.

Now there’s always the question of the unsaved spouse. Does she need to submit to her unsaved husband? Yes! More than ever! If you do not submit to him then you are not submitted to God, and how can you be a witness to the lost if you’re not in God’s will? So, to the wife of the unsaved, submit to those things that are not contrary to the Word of God. And remember, that man will be won by your “chaste conversation”.

Now, the Bible doesn’t give any instruction teaching that a woman can’t speak her mind. (So long as speaking your mind does not involve berating the man!) God gave you a brain to say what you’re thinking, to give another view-point. God saw that it was not good for man to be alone, so he created woman. Was this woman created only to fulfill his sexual needs? No. I don’t think that was his only need. I believe that he had things in his brain that needed to come out of his mouth and he found it was not fulfilling to speak to the air, and more specifically to creatures who did not speak back. God made a woman to listen to and respond to his words. I can just picture the woman reading this thinking, “My husband won’t speak so that I can respond to him!” You’ll need to create an atmosphere he enjoys conversing in. For instance, you’re going to need to discuss his disgusting hobby of fishing. (Or whatever his interests may be.) You may say, “I hate fishing! I don’t care to know a thing about it!” Well, no wonder he doesn’t want to talk to you! You don’t have to love fishing, but if you want to enjoy a conversation with him you’re going to have to cultivate the habit. Start off by discussing what he likes for a few days, or weeks, or months, depending on how long you’ve allowed him to go feeling like you enjoy his words.

You’re going to have to make changes ON PURPOSE. You can’t expect that things will change to be in harmony with God’s plan just because you wish it. You’ve go to do something about it! Here’s your game plan: 1. – Get a prayer life that involves praying past your flesh and it’s desires. Just like Jesus we’ve got to get the place that says, “Not my will but thine be done. Not my kingdom, but your kingdom come.” 2. – Start saying “OK” to everything your husband says. Don’t only say it to things that make sense to you, but to EVERYTHING. When your husband realizes the burden of the authority that you’ve given him. (Yes, YOU give him the authority to have authority.) he will desperately want your opinion. 3. – Cultivate conversation with him. (According to the instructions afore mentioned.)

Now if you don’t know me personally you have no idea as to how important this is to me. I am a happy, loud, get-it-done lady. I’ve been bossy from birth. My mother effectively spanked stubbornness right out of me. (Well, almost…) So I know the frustration of feeling very strongly that my husband was simply not doing it right, but understanding submission yielding to his way and… voila! Nobody died! The earth didn’t disintegrate! And I LOVE that he lets me say what I think and then letting him bare the brunt, or the glory, of the decisions!

So, you have the authority to give him the authority. And it is an act of your will to submit. So go ahead and live the power-filled life.


by Denee' Richardson

ddc101
10-10-2003, 01:48 PM
That Brother is an awesome article.Also I want to add this for the men.....in case you did not know it before you married...you have a responsibility to lead and guide and SUPPORT your wife and children.To some this is also a rude awakening....lv sis.c

jbenjesus
10-10-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by ddc101
That Brother is an awesome article.Also I want to add this for the men.....in case you did not know it before you married...you have a responsibility to lead and guide and SUPPORT your wife and children.To some this is also a rude awakening....lv sis.c Another addendum for the men:

Ephesians 5:21 - Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Many "godly" men who like to control everything including their wives (to the squashing and detriment of their wive's spirits) don't realize that this verse is there. They conveniently skip over it, because they are so focused on the the woman's responsibility which results in neglecting their own responsibility in their covenant relationship.

It holds equally true for the man to submit to the wife.

What do you mean by submit to the wife?!

Read verse 25-29 for the answer.

ddc101
10-10-2003, 07:36 PM
Amen Brother your wife is blessed.
In reference to submission nothing grieves me more than to see a man carrying the baby and the diaper bag and walking sheepishly behind an overbearing woman with a loud mouth.I want to go over there and shake him up.Its not wrong for the dad to help and love the children so don't get me wrong but when you see some couples the husband looks more like one of the children than the husband...men get a backbone....lv sis.c

milady
10-11-2003, 01:09 AM
I guess the problem I have with submission is that some husbands use it to control and abuse their wives.

tufluv
10-11-2003, 02:05 AM
That was a great article and one worthy of 'teaching' to women, over and over again, if necessary!
Although like the article said, one cannot force a woman into submission to a husband, some women will never ever get there, certainly not without fully submitting to GOD, first!

I really bothers me to see even ministers/pastors wives who 'run the show' - yup! Hard to believe, but that might also explain the lack of fruits there, when a man of GOD, cannot even do his job., for an overbearing wife. :shrug:

This worldy society has bred many of this type women. It sickens me to see how women have pretty much taken over most everything that was once a 'man only' domain, even dressing like 'em! :grumble:
I was once headed that way, but luckily, GOD's will worked that out of me, once I was truly born again. And I also got a non-abusive tender hearted [although very hard-headed] undemanding, husband out of it! :tup: Finally! There really IS power in submission, I can imagine how even MUCH better it'd be if he would also submit to GOD..

Is it just me, or is there an 'influx' of similarly related topics going on here [I]very recently? I just finished posting on like two other related threads. Hmmm... I'd like to believe its a GOD thing! :D

ddc101
10-11-2003, 08:57 AM
when a man of GOD, cannot even do his job., for an overbearing wife.
--------------------------------------------------
This my dear sister Tufluv is not the womens fault but the man.He should get enough backbone to stop the show...lv sis.c

tufluv
10-11-2003, 11:21 AM
ddc101:
This my dear sister Tufluv is not the womens fault but the man.He should get enough backbone to stop the show...lv sis.c
I know sister, I know...but its sure hard and not a good idea to talk against THE pastor or ministers in charge, or blame them, yet you're right.
Backbone is an essential element for a man to 'rule his own house'...I've seen some that just can't do it. Its totally sad. It must be so tough, to have to battle always against your partner, children [that one loves so]...and how DOES one do it without much strife and pain? Yet another reason I'd not covet a godly man's ministry. :eek: A bit too "tuff" for me!
Perhaps its best done by 'toughlove'.

Thats why I mentioned that in this modern culture, women have been taught or shown, that they are as equal as men, that THEY can be in charge. Its no doubt a tough shell to break out of., and I've even spoken for myself., [former self]
I think that if I had a minister husband, Wow! I'd be too thrilled, honored, and in awe, to NOT be submissive. What a honor to have such a husband. Some women do not appreciate it. I'll never understand that! :shrug:

ddc101
10-11-2003, 06:58 PM
Sister Tufluv,
Since you brought this up I wanted to share a conversation I had with a sister not naming names.She has been through alot and been hurt by her husband in the past when he was not living for God.Lots of disapointment came with it as well.I ask her since now he is in church if she respected him and looked to him as much as she does her pastor? Her answer was no and then she went on to say she would be praying about her attitude in this area.She is a godly woman after the Lords own heart.The Lord can heal us in areas we have been mistreated or feel betrayed and restore this area of the family.
This is how I feel.My husband is my pastor at church and my pastor at home.If he were not my pastor at him I would still have to put him in this place as this is Gods order for the family.
I wonder if sisters would get this in their spirits how easy it would be to submit?
Heres what I told the sister.Get out the word and ask your husband questions that you want a bible answer for.I am not saying you shouldn't study for yourself.But what is wrong with getting his opinion before others? Its just a thought.But Jewish women are supposed to encourage their husbands to read Torah.Shouldn't we who have the Holy Ghost live even more righteously and encourage our husbands to read the word.Not nag but encourage.Men hate to be nagged especially to pray.They will just do it less to prove their position.lv sis.c

tufluv
10-11-2003, 10:11 PM
Now I like that idea, I've even been able to do something like that with my husband.,, (even my sons). As is my habit, I've always got Jesus in mind, my conversations lean that way! :D

Whenever we're alone, I invariably bring up something to do with the LORD, kinda giving something to add his take on, to.
And he usually does. He may even be filing it away somewhere in his brain. He is adult ADD., learning is difficult for him.

Yet, on rare occasions, I've seen him indicate where in the bible, (usually NT), a certain verse or topic is when he overhears me talking with someone on the phone! Or in person! He hs even corrected me! Praise GOD, I don't mind that! :D

I believe someday he will break out of his silence on what's really buggin him or doesn't understand, about this fascination of mine (and many others) with our LORD! I pray that the LORD would fill him with HIS spirit, even at home (since he rarely goes to church)...or somewhere, anywhere! I KNOW God can do it, whenever HE wants to.

I HAVE thought about when in the future, once he's on track, we might kinda clash, as I'm way ahead in certain areas...yet, even the basics are fascintating to me, I can slow down for him. I suspect he's a bit embarassed at times, that he IS so behind, but as I told him, its all up to you to get started, never mind catching up! lol

BurningforJesus
10-13-2003, 12:54 AM
Thank you for this thread. It is very interesting reading.
I pray that when the Lord decides to bring my husband into His kingdom that I will have to run to keep up with his spiritual walk. I am looking forward to that day!!! I have also started praying that when my husband comes that I will be ready and be more submissive than I am now.
I would love to get his opinion on many things but I find that if I don't know the answers he belittles me and I don't find that encouraging to seek his opinions for many other things. This is just the everyday things, I am meaning, as mentioning the bible and things in it or about it is completely of limits.:) I do try just to test the waters. Maybe one day he will respond and I don't want to miss that opportunity. :)

I find being submissive is a challenge for me as I am very strong person, I do it but I have to watch my attitude. I find I need to apoligise to my husband a lot. That doesn't go down too well either as he doesn't understand it at all.
I really like the first post by our brother about submission. I didn't know that about the children needing to be in submission to each other. I have always taught them to be respectful of each other and apoligise if one has hurt or wronged the other, They get on pretty well though. The two older ones anyway, of course we have our moments but they don't last for days on end. They are always talking to one another soon after the account. I have my youngest to teach now.. That is proving a challenge as the other two are much older than her. No doublt I will get there with God's help!!:)
Have you got examples and suggestions for us who not sure how to go about this submission with a few senerios.
What about for the wives who have there husbands unsaved as yet?
There are some good books out there in the Christian Bookshops that will help give some ideas. Eg "Me? Obey him??!! " And another that comes to mind is "Total Woman" I can't remember the authors of these books, both are American, and were a really big help for me when I first started walking with the Lord. I think maybe I should go back to them again and read them as I am sure I will see something new in them that I didn;t see before. The Lord has a way of showing you these things you need to know now. All we need to do is ask Him. Any way this is a long post, sorry.
I need some help in this area and I am sure there are others that could do with it too?
Burning

tufluv
10-13-2003, 01:14 AM
Burning:
I pray that when the Lord decides to bring my husband into His kingdom that I will have to run to keep up with his spiritual walk. I am looking forward to that day!!!
Amen, I'll be praying along with you! Its gonna happen! My hubby too!
Nothing is impossible unto GOD! I've heard countless testimonies to that effect, even in some songs written as tributes. GOD will have the last word..."every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that JESUS CHRIST is LORD"...
AMEN, HALLELUJAH!!

ddc101
10-15-2003, 08:14 PM
Sisters,
I wanted to share that my husband was out of church for some time.It was hard to submit to someone in this state because you are so unequally yoked.But the word does not say that because your husband is not saved that you don't have to submit.In fact it says he would be:

1 Pet 3:1-2
1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
(KJV)

Be in Subjection means:
5293 hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so);

from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:

KJV-- be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submitself unto.
Conversation:

391 anastrophe (an-as-trof-ay');

from 390; behavior:

KJV-- conversation.


Matt 5:37
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
(KJV)

Matt 12:35-37
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
(KJV)

Eph 4:29
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
(KJV)

Col 3:8
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
(KJV)

Col 4:6
6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
(KJV)

James 5:12
12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
(KJV)

The above is just a short expository.I am sure there is much more biblical help on the subject.lv sis.c

lellingsworth
10-24-2003, 09:15 PM
Yep, this was a really good thread. My hubby's been out for some time but he still loves God deeply and still BELIEVES the way that things should be. He just seems to keeping getting dragged back out into the world for some reason. But he gives me advice when I ask him on on church stuff and all, and keeps me dressing proper, etc. My bad thing was telling him he wasn't living right because he wasn't going to church. He says, "Duh, I KNOW that; You don't have to TELL me." So I keep my mouth shut now and go about my merry way. It's better that way. It is just going to be a great dancing celebration :banana: when he goes back. He knows SO much that I don't know. You know what's odd is that the more I became submissive to him, even when I didn't want to, and asking his advice on stuff, the more I fell in love with him.

ddc101
10-25-2003, 12:06 AM
Sister what a wonderful thing to be sensitive to the Lord concerning your husband.So many times I needed tape on my mouth that if I could go back I would erase things I said and say them different or not say them at all.My husband is very wise in the word of the Lord.He is not one to jump easily on every bandwagon but weighs his words and actions.Thankfully God gave him to me.He says all the time that it was because I stood for truth that he hung in there even when he felt like throwing in the towel altogether.He felt like such a failure.But now he is a pastor and wonderfully used of the Lord to bring the gospel to a place that had no church.lv sis.c.

NanaRenan
03-21-2004, 01:19 AM
...when I saw what that "S" word was! :eek:

Boy, oh, boy!!!

I don't know WHAT the Lord has in store for me....but every day this week SUBMISSION has entered into my realm of conversation or study!! I'm starting to freak out a little trying to guess where its leading.

But I"m not alone -- in fact, it's been so strong on several of us, that we've already decided to SUBMIT to it (heh heh heh) and work up a Women's Bible Study.

Thanks to the Brother for posting this way back when. Thanks to my Lord for showing it to me tonight!

Abigail4476
03-24-2004, 11:33 AM
[jb]I don't ever post here, but I thought it was a nice article to post, and because it seemed written to mom's and women, I thought I would post in the Ladies Discussions thread.
Excellent post...I like to say that submission is a lifestyle choice...the fact is, though...if you submit to God, your other relationships will fall into line, and you will find it...well, not easy perhaps,...but...rewarding to submit to your husband.

Submission has to do with fulfilling your obligations to your husband and to God in spite of how you may feel at any given moment. You have to make choices to do right despite the [female] emotional rollercoaster.

itsajagain
03-30-2004, 08:54 AM
I guess the problem I have with submission is that some husbands use it to control and abuse their wives.
Ever heard of a stainless steel skillet or a heavy wooden rolling pin??

itsajagain
03-30-2004, 09:00 AM
Excellent post...I like to say that submission is a lifestyle choice...the fact is, though...if you submit to God, your other relationships will fall into line, and you will find it...well, not easy perhaps,...but...rewarding to submit to your husband.

Submission has to do with fulfilling your obligations to your husband and to God in spite of how you may feel at any given moment. You have to make choices to do right despite the [female] emotional rollercoaster.

HMMMM... well I guess I failed... I found no way to submit to God and my husband... so I chose God, and my children... I asked my husband to move out one day... eventually he did.

be blessed

AJ

NanaRenan
04-02-2004, 09:22 PM
I told ya'll I couldn't get away from this word!


I went to Ladies Conference last week, opened the brochure and the first of the advertised books my eyes fell on was The Power and Purpose of Submission by Betty D. Austin.

Haven't got to crack the spine on it yet, but its in my TBR pile. Anyone else read it??

anjel
04-05-2004, 05:42 PM
:cool: this is a very good topic... :)

Abigail4476
04-05-2004, 06:38 PM
HMMMM... well I guess I failed... I found no way to submit to God and my husband... so I chose God, and my children... I asked my husband to move out one day... eventually he did.

be blessed

AJ
I am referring to a functional relationship. If you submit to God, He will make it easier for you to do the right thing. You are not in control of your husband's actions, quite obviously. There is no failure when you do all you can do.