Whose married to who? [Archive] - The Good News Café

pastorb

03-13-2003, 01:59 PM

Brother Ron, Thank you so much for that.

I also want to add this for others also.

Now we all know the word of God, how that God allowed Moses to write bills of divorcement because of the hardness of the hearts of the people.

Look at this and Jer. together then look too at Hosea and Gomer

Once the marriage had been polluted they were not supposed to be able to get back together under any circumstances because the marriage had been polluted by adultery. Sin!

Deuteronomy 24
1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Hosea 2
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
Jer 3:6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.

Isaiah 54
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

backsliding--literally, "apostasy"; not merely apostate, but apostasy itself, the essence of it (Jer 3:14, 22).
relapse into bad habit: to fall back into wrongdoing or a bad habit after having attempted to change your behavior or to lose faith in a religion after being a believer

You make an excellent point about the backslider not being married to God in their minds.

However I've heard people say that while they were doing drugs or whatever they prayed for God's help because they had no strength of their own to stop. Wanted to and couldn't.

John Atkinson

03-13-2003, 02:36 PM

I believe that many backsliders find themselves in the following predicament:

Romans 7:18-24
(18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
(19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
(20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

That describes almost exactly the state I was in 15 years ago just before and just after moving to Connecticut, and just before finding Norwich Tabernacle. Desiring to live for God and be used of God, but unable to overcome things.

But Jesus Christ is a deliverer and a Savior. Even for the backslider! I think it pays to remember that just because one loses a battle, they can still win the war.

That is what backsliding is, it is losing a battle with the flesh.

Galatians 5:17
(17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Sometimes losing a battle with the meat we walk around in lasts an hour, sometimes a few years.

I believer there is a difference between losing the battle to temptation for a season and deliberately walking away from God, but I also believe that in both cases, God is able to restore us into his great Salvation.

I think something that is sorely lacking in many churches today are proactive measures to equip new people in the Lord and arm them against backsliding and yielding to temptation.

A mother and father naturally do not just leave their babies to fend for themselves, they care for them wholly as infants, and then decrease that care as the child grows and teach the child how to become self sufficient, a process which takes years.

We sometimes are guilty of letting our "infants" tend to themselves, and then wonder why they stop showing up and why we see them doing the things again that they did before coming to a knowledge of truth.

I believe I will start a thread over in the Minister's forums on discipleing and caring for new converts.

nytxn1971

03-13-2003, 02:39 PM

Good stuff, Bro. John. Great post!

jbenjesus

03-13-2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by pastorb
However I've heard people say that while they were doing drugs or whatever they prayed for God's help because they had no strength of their own to stop. Wanted to and couldn't. I just wanted to ask what was your point in this last comment you made. You may not have meant anything, but I wasn't sure why you made it and it's relation to your topic.

In response to your post in general, I believe we understand that God already knows His elect. Before He physically created them, before they were born, He knew them, their decisions, and final outcome.

His foreknowledge is primary, His predestination is secondary. Adoniyah put is to well, and so succinct when he said, "God's foreknowledge is one thing. God's predestination is altogher another thing. The two are totally unrelated. God's predestination is completely limited and confined to his foreknowledge. No individual is predestinated to be saved or lost. The Church only is predestinated. We are collectively predestinated in Christ."
He knows every struggle and backslidden state His people (those whom He foreknew, that He predestined, called justified, and glorified in His infinite wisdom) would enter into even after they obeyed the gospel.

Which is why He could still say to His people (His Church) "I am married to you." He wasn't talking to those who He knew would not repent and return. He spoke in natural terms referring to Israel or Jerusalem, but He was directly speaking to His spiritual people, not natural people. Which is why much of what He said in the Old Covenant is applicable to us today. He was speaking spiritually to His spiritual people for ages and generations to come.

Cherokee

03-13-2003, 03:28 PM

Question? What is the difference in a backslider and a backslider in heart? I've heard debates about this also. Some say there is an extreme difference. And of course to depart this life in either state is destructive to the soul. Now also I've heard the debates about God and backslidden Israel that He was married to and the death of Jesus brought about the Gentile Bride and the New Testament Church fulfilling the law and not transgressing the commandments. Makes for deep discussion and an interesting study don't you think? Love Ya' in Jesus!!! Cherokee

ddc101

03-13-2003, 04:58 PM

to be married is to be committed to a covenant.God is committed a lot longer than we are.It is his spirit that produces the fruit of longsuffering in us.lv sis.c

Hebrews116

03-13-2003, 05:19 PM

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!

On the subject of backslidding, there are two types of backslidding.

The first is backslidding, the choice to walk away from God, in persuit of sin INSTEAD. I think this has been the category that most backslidders fall into. They will tell you what it takes to live for God, but they just aren't living it. They are living in known, unrepented sin.

The other, which I believe is the most dangerous, is walking away from this Apostolic truth of Acts 2:38 salvation, denying it, saying that's it's a lifestyle of bondage, after knowing it in the power of God, going into "mainstream" Christianity as a means of trying to live for God. IMHO, this is dangerous territory because it is here where it is possible to commit the "unpardonable sin" of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

It is also my opinion that in either case, backslidders DO NOT EVER lose the Holy Ghost. Once you got it, you got it! By choosing to live in disobedience to the Word of God and in unrepentant sin, the flesh, the carnal man, becomes more powerful than the spiritual man on the inside. But the Holy Ghost is still there to talk to, to convict, to draw that person back to God. I was a backslidder for 7 years; it was that experience that convinces me that you never loose the Holy Ghost.

I do believe that it is possible to have the Holy Ghost taken away and removed from an individual, but that would be God turning that person over to a reprobate mind; having gone from being dead spiritually (before salvation), to being spiritually alive (after receiving the Holy Ghost for salvation), to being spiritually dead AGAIN (having the Holy Ghost taken away).

In all practicality, the only difference between the saint and the backslidder, is that the saint, when he/she commits a sin, comes back to the alter of God, asks for God's forgiveness, picks themselves back up, and goes on living for God. The backslidder is the one who falls, AND STAYS DOWN to sin.

JMHO, God Bless!

pastorb

03-13-2003, 05:30 PM

Bro John This is to you,

Romans 7:18-24
(18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

This goes to lack of or no teaching once saved.

(19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
(20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Isn’t this the struggle before the Holy Ghost, not after?

(21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Now It’s made known to my mind that I am a sinner and I can’t help myself.

Bro. J, the point I was making is that there are some who see themselves as backsliders looking for help who don't yet know God.

I absolutely loved your post though.

Sister Dever, I believe the only difference is that only they and God know so far. To sin in ones heart is the same as the physical act.

Sister Ddc,

Thank you my sister, commeitment to God in the covenant that he established with us is what is sorely needed.

We need to return to God in every way.

Brother Ron your passion for God is awesome I wish I knew you personally as a friend.

John Atkinson

03-13-2003, 08:09 PM

PastorB, you are correct in your application as well. The backslider can find himself in the same mental state as well. Knowing something and being able to apply it are two different things. But I agree with you!

pastorb

03-13-2003, 11:51 PM

Amen Brother John and I love the Acts 2:38 sign, there is no other way.

Johnny James said, can you dig it???

survivor4christ

03-14-2003, 12:11 AM

I believe in this scripture, God is married to the backslider, it means just that. I do not believe that it is possible for the 'backslider' to have the Holy Ghost taken away by God. I do believe that one who believes they are backslidden can relinquish the authority and power that comes from the Holy Ghost. Even for them to 'give up the Ghost.'

This is because they chose to give up their birthright, their inheritance. It is not because God took it back. it is because they gave it up. They stopped believing God for their salvation, their deliverance, their destinies.

The gifts of God are w/o repentance; God is not an Indian giver. God does not give gifts and then take them back. That is the way man operates. Even if we take those gifts and misuse them, God still lets us keep them. He deals with us until we are in His Purpose.

God being married to the backslider means God is always in relationship with the backslider, even when the backslider is not in proper relationship with Him. God is faithful when we are faithless. God loves us and is committed to us, even when we are not committed and in love with Him. Much like Hosea was to Gomer.

No matter how much Gomer kept stepping out on Hosea, Hosea never stopped loving her and he took her back in when she came back to him.

Love,
Sis. Wenona

ddc101

03-14-2003, 10:20 AM

nytxn1971

03-14-2003, 10:52 AM

We constantly need to be refilled, folks. You can't walk in the Spirit without being refilled.

Originally posted by ddc101
I don't know if I believe that a person who is backslidden and living in a sin such as adultry or openly homosexual who once has the Holy Ghost still has the Holy Ghost.I don't see alot of bible to defend that.In fact we cast lots of Devils out of people in a situation such as this.When a person writhes like a serpent or a woman speaks with the voice of a man at the altar and she is a backslider I can't see how they still have the Holy Ghost.

No, they definitely don't have the Holy Ghost... not in the sense of God living in that person. I agree totally with that, because I was a backslider at one time. When I came back, God set me free of the demons I picked up in the world right before he re-filled me with the Holy Ghost.

HOWEVER, I was still able to speak in tongues while I was backslidden. It sounds a little hard to believe, I know, but it's true. I was always freaked out by the fact that I could still speak in tongues, but I was also amazed at the same time. What's really weird is that I began to do it more often within weeks of when I finally repented of walking away from God in the first place.

It was like my own spirit was calling out to God for help leading up to that day... and He answered. I finally gave it all up and went back to church, after not stepping foot into a Spirit filled church for seven years.

Two weeks later, I was praying on my bed and thanking God for the blood and the cross. Very shortly after I began, I felt his presence enter the room and touch me. He moved up from my feet to my chest, slowly, and when he reached my heart area, I began to cough like I'd never coughed before in my life. As I heaved and coughed, God softly whispered the names of the spirits he was delivering me from into my heart. After that last cough, he rushed through me like a Tsunami, and I cried like a baby. It felt so good to have God back in my life again. It wasn't long afterward that I got rebaptized.

Well, I didn't mean to take up that much room in a post. Sorry.

My point is that when we walk away from God, he no longer dwells in us, but it doesn't mean he leaves us. He promised to never leave us nor forsake us.

He's committed to us no matter what. Even our own lack of committment to him does not negate his committment to us.

pastorb

03-14-2003, 11:34 AM

Brother Ron and Ddc,

The bible says in 1 Timothy [b]Now the spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, givivng heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having thier conscience seared with a hot iron.

When I read this I think of the one who was or has been saved but is now in a backslidden state to the point where he can no longer hear God because his conscience or desire to do right is nummed.

Ron I agree we do need to be constantly filled, but you said even in you backslidden state you still spoke in tongues, was that from God or you desiring to be back in the presence of God.

Sister Wenona, What a beautiful boy you have. I am leaning towards you opinion because I don't believe God is an indian giver either, but you made the case very well that person chose to walk away from the blessings of God like Abner leaving the city of refuge.

nytxn1971

03-14-2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by pastorb
Ron I agree we do need to be constantly filled, but you said even in you backslidden state you still spoke in tongues, was that from God or you desiring to be back in the presence of God.

I honestly cannot answer that question, Pastorb, because I don't know. It's worth pondering over though.

This is outside of my area of expertise. Perhaps someone else more qualified can answer or at least take a stab at it.

I know that the Word says that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. God doesn't take away our gifts.

King Saul was able to prophesy, even while he was backslidden, and rejected by God. David called him "The Lord's Annointed", even after Saul had been rejected by God.

pastorb

03-14-2003, 11:46 AM

Praise the Lord Sister Wenona,

I agree with your post and what a beuatiful boy. I know you are blessed.

Sister Ddc,

I got look at 1 timothy 4:1,2 and understand that the holy ghost is not gone just seared in sin, much like the nerve would be.

Brother Ron I agree we do need to be refilled, but when you were in you backslidden state and you were speaking in tongues who was in control?

pastorb

03-14-2003, 11:51 AM

I apologize for the double post.

Brother Ron lets go back and re read that, I believe Saul was prophecying when the spirit of the Lord came upon him. But he was no longer able to hear from God when he sinned and God removed his spirit.

And the major difference is that the Holy Ghost was upon him and the Holy Ghost is in us, living in side of us, guiding us if we don't ignore the spirit of God. Right?

Sandy

03-14-2003, 11:52 AM

Interesting subject to say the least.

I tend to believe what Paul was speaking of in Rm. chapter 7 isn't necessarily ones condition before getting saved at all, except it is that as well, true, but what takes place when we walk in or after the flesh rather than the Spirit. This especially happening to most when one first comes to the Lord, not having yet been discipled and taught in the area of overcoming yet. Which is the reason that Paul followed up with the answer to this in the last two verses of that chapter as well as on into chapter 8, instructing us in basically how we can overcome even that flesh. The problem is, many are never discipled in these things. Which may be one reason why so many do end up backsliding.

Also, I used to believe that one could come to the point where they could not even come back to the Lord because of what Heb. 6:4-6, says, but I question that belief anymore as well. The reason being what is written in Hebr. 6:3. If we cannot go any further than what is written in Hebr. 6:1-2 without God permitting it, I just have a really difficult time believing He is going to permit anyone from continuing on into what is writtten in verses 4-6 if that one is going to end up backsliding afterwards to the point where they cannot return at all.

Just some of my thoughts on this issue.

I definitely agree discipling needs to be encouraged by the leaders. Because if you are a disciple, then you are ready to disciple others as well.

God laid down the law of reproduction from the very beginning. And I beleive this applies in the spiritual realm and not just in the physical. In other words, if you are a disciple, you are anointed to reproduce other disciples in Christ as well. In fact, if you are reproducing others to follow after Christ, they will do so. The problem is, many are not being reproduced to follow after Christ, but rather to follow after man instead, whether they are following Christ or not. There is a fine line between the two.

Just some of my thoughts on this issue.

nytxn1971

03-14-2003, 11:56 AM

Well... I was 'in control', because I could start and stop it on my own, pastorb... just like I can now. It's not like I was forced into speaking in tongues when I was backslidden by some demon or something. I wan't forced into it any more than I am now that I've come back and gotten refilled.
Albeit, now I don't usually start speaking until I feel the stirring inside me. Back then I just did it to do it... because I could.

I'm not sure where you're going with this, or what you're trying to get me to say or feel here... I've already told you I can't explain it and I don't really know much about it. Ya know? :(
I mean no offense to you when I say these things. I'm just curious as to why I could speak in tongues even though I was living like the devil...

pastorb

03-14-2003, 12:04 PM

Just getting an understanding the latter was basically a double post because I didn't see the first one.

I love all of your post. Great reasoning.

Sandy

03-14-2003, 12:24 PM

Ron,

The thought just came to me, maybe you was inteceding for yourself in tongues back then, but didn't even know it. I don't believe personally anyone loses the Spirit once they have received. But we can quench the Spirit, thus not obeying HIm by serving flesh instead. Just my thoughts on this, unless someone has a scripture that says otherwise. Once you are a child of God, you are that forever. That does not mean He will not cast you out in the end either, which is probably what Paul was talking about when he wrote what he did in 1st Cor. 9:27, considering also what is written in Mt. 8:12 for instance.

ddc101

03-14-2003, 12:34 PM

Bro.Ron
there are those who would say you still had the Holy Ghost because you still were able to speak in tongues.But I want to bring up the fact that your own spirit can learn to speak in tongues from being so used to it.We need to be careful that what is happening is God and not the flesh who wants so badly to do so.lv sis.c

nytxn1971

03-14-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by pastorb
Just getting an understanding the latter was basically a double post because I didn't see the first one.

I love all of your post. Great reasoning.

Ok, just wondering. I guess you could say I'm a product of my leadership.

I like your posts too, Pastorb.

ddc101

03-14-2003, 01:16 PM

Let us reason together:
If we need the Holy Ghost in order to be saved and it is the resurrection spirit..the word calls it the first resurrection.
Then how can we who are dead in sin and tresspasses rise to eternal life in a state of death...the soul that sinneth...it shall surely die..Sin causes a spiritual death.The Holy Ghost is the resurrection spirit.How can death and life exist in the same vessel? I don't see where that is possible.Explain this to me biblically.lv sis.c

John Atkinson

03-14-2003, 02:30 PM

The concept that backslidders are saved if they die in a backslidden condition is has no scriptural foundation and to close to the "once saved, always saved" doctrine.

Had I died in that state, back in 88, I am 100% certain I would have went to hell.

nytxn1971

03-14-2003, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by John Atkinson
The concept that backslidders are saved if they die in a backslidden condition is has no scriptural foundation and to close to the "once saved, always saved" doctrine.

Had I died in that state, back in 88, I am 100% certain I would have went to hell.

I'm in total agreement with you John.
I feel the same way about my own experience.

There's no way one can live like the devil and still make it to heaven.

light

03-14-2003, 02:50 PM

ddc101 said:
When a person writhes like a serpent or a woman speaks with the voice of a man at the altar and she is a backslider I can't see how they still have the Holy Ghost.

Before I started this church I attended a Jesus Name church in our area. One night a young woman was praying at the alter. As she prayed the devil manifested himself more and more. The pastor didn't know what to do. He had never encountered the devil before. He knew something wasn't right. I ask him to have all the people milling around to set down with their children and pray. Some did as ask but three people continued to laugh and talk in the back. We began to pray and the devil was cast out. The woman began to speak in tongues.
The devil entered the three that were laughing. Two of the three had the H.G. one didn't. We were able to cast the devil out of one of the two that had the H.G.

My question to you is what happened to the H.G. while this devil was in this person ( about 1 hr.)?

nightwatchman

03-14-2003, 02:55 PM

Are we backslidden every time we sin?If so, do we lose the H.G. every time we sin ,and rerecieve it every time we repent?

light

03-14-2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by John Atkinson
The concept that backslidders are saved if they die in a backslidden condition is has no scriptural foundation and to close to the "once saved, always saved" doctrine.

Had I died in that state, back in 88, I am 100% certain I would have went to hell.

Br. John you are absolutly right. There is no such thing as once saved always saved. We are the sons of God. We have his NAME. If we backslide we are still a son, but a son outside of grace. To continue as a son we must obey his word. If we don't obey we are lost.

ddc101

03-14-2003, 03:40 PM

Nightwatchman,
We had better watch and pray is all I can say because if we don't we will lose out.How much is too much to God I wonder? I really don't want to experience it to find out.One sin is too much sin to me.We have to repent and die to our wills on a daily basis or we won't be saved whether we are claiming the Holy Ghost or not.

stmatthew

03-14-2003, 04:03 PM

I really do not believe you can be possessed by a demon, and have the Holy Ghost at the same time. The bible states that the thief must "bind" the strong man of the house to spoil his goods.

Those that were laughing and talking in the back of the church had obviously grown cold on God already. I believe you can depart from God, and still have the form. You can still shout and talk in tongues in the flesh. It is having a form of Godliness, but dinying the power thereof.

jmho

Bro Burdette

BroRutledge

03-14-2003, 04:17 PM

When we get to the end we will find that many backsliders never were saved. When Jesus says ..."I never knew you...depart from me..." he will reveal that some who thought they were once saved were only fooling themselves. If Jesus never knew them they were never saved. If they were never saved they never did backslide. I have known some people through the years that seemed to pray through in every revival but could not endure until the next one. I don't claim to be an athority on this subject, but I tend to have many questions when people claim that they were once saved and now they are lost.

nightwatchman

03-14-2003, 04:44 PM

St. Matthew

I really do not believe you can be possessed by a demon, and have the Holy Ghost at the same time. The bible states that the thief must "bind" the strong man of the house to spoil his goods.

I agree, Jesus said what business did Light have with darkness. And when Jesus showed up the demons begged to depart and today when Jesus shows up they still have to go. I believe people that claim to have the Holy Ghost and then manifest unclean spirits never had the Holy Ghost. They may have experienced a blessing that lasted for awhile but never fully surrendered to God. JMHO...Nightwatchman

:bow: :bow:

pastorb

03-14-2003, 04:50 PM

Bro Rutledge my pastor says the same thing. Everyone we may consider to be a backslider, some were never saved at all.

I would not contend that if you die a backslider you will be saved, no, you will surely die in your sin unless you repent.

I also have a problem with one being possesed with a demon and the Holy ghost as well. You can be demon opressed but not possesed.

I need to see scripture on that. I am not a great fan of Bob larson either whose ministry as it is thrives on pubic exorcisms and demonology.

It's best to repent, be baptised in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost like the bible says.

I also heard this from Repentance is for a change of mind, and Godly sorrow, baptism in Jesus name is for remittence of sin and The Holy Ghost is our helper which gives us power to say no to sin now that we have been brought out by the blood of Jesus.

Sandy

03-14-2003, 04:58 PM

Bro. Rutledge,

I would tend to agree, most backsliders are not saved at all. But I also believe that salvation is not complete until you have ran the race either. And therefore evidently from what Paul wrote, if we do not keep our body under subjection to His Spirit, we can be a castaway according to 1st Cor. 9:27. And I would not want to come to the finish line in that condition, that is for sure.

Yes we do have a choice in being obedient or not being obedient regarding this submission. But once this is established, it is not our own rightouesness that provdes us with anything regarding overcoming the world, but rather his that does this by taking over from within us and putting that fleshly temptation under. Which He is faithful to always do once we do submit daily.

BroDane

03-14-2003, 09:28 PM

I tend to remember this..that Jesus said If you Love me You obey me....:tup:

survivor4christ

03-14-2003, 09:42 PM

Thank you, pastorb.

I have one other son, who is 11 and a 9 year old daughter. God has blessed me with three beautiful children who are beating the odds.

This is an awesome topic.

Sis. Cooper..HI! Haven't seen much of you...miss you!

The only scripture I base my former premise upon is Romans 11:29 that says the gifts and callings of God are w/o repentance. God may chastise, may withdraw Himself from us the further in sin we go, but just upon that scripture, is what I base my opinion on.

Love to all,
Sis. Wenona

ddc101

03-15-2003, 10:06 AM

nightwatchman

03-15-2003, 10:40 AM

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I thank GOD for a prayer life.

foreverblessed

03-15-2003, 11:05 AM

I am really enjoying this thread. Keep the good stuff coming.

survivor4christ

03-15-2003, 12:56 PM

I hear you, Sis. Cooper and Nightwatchman...

When I 'backslid,' I can honestly say that it was only the grace and rich mercies of God that kept me. God never left me completely to myself. Even when I wanted to just completely be reprobate and believe a strong delusion, God never gave up on me! NEVER!

I would actually pray, "God, why don't you just let me go? Can't you see I cannot live this life, that I am a rank, skank sinner and will do nothing but bring reproach to your name?" This is why I attempted suicide, b/c I shouldn't, couldn't live w/o Christ. But I felt had no victory over this flesh, my will, my soul.

But God!

I cannot explain all the logistics and specifities of how God dealt with me, or how He kept me when I left Him...His lovingkindness and tender mercies drew me back to Him. Period. His Love. His Goodness.

Yes, I should have died a long time ago. Yes, I should have been left to my own devices. Yes, I should have been cut off. Yes, I was deserving of judgment....

But God!

I do not even understand it. I just thank Him for it! His Mercies, His Grace!

My Husband, the Lover of my Soul, kept wooing me until I came back to Him.

Love, Sis. Wenona

truemessianic

03-15-2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Cherokee
Question? What is the difference in a backslider and a backslider in heart? I've heard debates about this also. Some say there is an extreme difference. And of course to depart this life in either state is destructive to the soul. Now also I've heard the debates about God and backslidden Israel that He was married to and the death of Jesus brought about the Gentile Bride and the New Testament Church fulfilling the law and not transgressing the commandments. Makes for deep discussion and an interesting study don't you think? Love Ya' in Jesus!!! Cherokee
When we become born again, we are no longer Gentiles. We become true Jews, Jews according to the heart, and not according to the flesh.. Romans 2:28-29 tells us, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." True Jews are those who are part of the Bride of God, the Bride of Christ. We are the Israel of God according to Galatians 6:16.

ddc101

03-15-2003, 01:59 PM

Thanks Bro.Nightwatchman,
I have met people who were raised pentecostal and did the most horrible things imaginable.It would amaze some of you how many backsliders are out there leading the pack in abominations.There is no way that person is a friend of God.

James 4:4-8
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
(KJV)

Bro.James...the brother of our Lord Jesus made it very clear and preached it very strong.God is not some pansy God who is hanging around us like a love sick puppy waiting for us to turn to him.We can anger our Father and he will turn his face away.He will wash his hands of us and we may never find our way home.
We need to be careful how we walk before the Lord and be sure we are doing the things that Jesus desires us to do.Because there is coming a day when this shall be the song of those who thought they were saved:
Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(KJV)

We had better heed the book.lv sis.c

Sandy

03-15-2003, 02:04 PM

Survivor,

Thankfully, the Lord does not give up on someone that has backslid, even though many times as men we weill do so. Maybe it is because He knows the beginning and the end. Which I suppose is why I do not believe He removes His Spirit from that one either, that has received it. I believe that is also why fills some with His Spirit that have truly repented, even before they have obeyed all of Acts 2:38 as well.

I don't know if He removes His Spirit from within the one that has backslid, going after the things of the world and flesh, as I have never done so once I did truly repent. But I just don't think so, at least for that one that He sees returning in the end anyway. Now those that He turns over to a reprobate mind, because of seeing their hearts desire, and seeing that one never returning, is a completely different issue altogether, which seems to be what you are speaking of True. That one is in trouble. But that one I would question whether they had ever repented to begin with, at least what I see repentance to mean anymore. I would also question whether they had ever truly received the Spirit of God too, and additionally question the authenticity of their baptism as well. I just don't see Jesus allowing someone to move in His house that has not truly repented to begin with, no matter what was said over them when they were baptized. Because repentance is a matter of the deep desire of the heart to begin with. And isn't just a matter of running to some alter in some church and saying some prayer to save your own skin. That is not repentance at all. Repentance is a matter of losing your own life for His.

I don't mean that everyone that backslid had not repented either. But it does mean that many did not before they backslid. I say that because, as I see it for now, someone could backslide because of not being discipled properly, and therefore at the time, not knowing how to handle the temptations that might come at them in the beginning of their walk with God. But that one will return to the Lord eventually, I believe.

Just some of my thoughts on this issue.

Come to think of it, Simon the Sorcerer was a good example of someone that had not truly repented. I say that because he revealed his true colors when he asked to buy the baptism in the Holy Ghost for his own selfish purposes. You cannot tell me that dude repented. Yes it says he believed what Philip preached concerning the things of the kingdom of God, and was even baptized according to Acts 8:13. But had he repented? Probably not, even though he did believe.

I wonder just how many would come to the alter if they were really told what it means to repent? But are we not to do so whether there is one or 21? I believe we are. Some should even be told to count the cost too, undestanding that they are coming to give up their life totally to the Lord. And that this consists of taking up their cross and following after Him from that day forth IMHO. At least that is what I believe the Word says anyway.

pastorb

03-15-2003, 02:50 PM

Ddc, Nightwatchman, Wenona, True, and Sandy,

I love everything you had to say. However, In the context of a true backslider let me offer this.

My pastor was saved two weeks before going to Vietnam and the two years he was there he did everything he could do to survive, i.e. smoke dope, sell on the black market, drink, and so on.

He said before he left he never got a chance to receive the training to be a Christian, but when he came back from Vietnam he could drive by a church without feeling conviction and turning his music down, He would cuff his cigarette under his hand out of respect when walking by th church house. One day he was partying and knowing it was wrong couldn't even enjoy himself. S

So he told all his friends at the club I'm going back to church, went home flushed all his dope down the toilet and went to church with his mother. That night he received the Holy Ghost all over again afresh and has been walking faithfully every sense.

My point is the examples you gave in Romans and Thess. I totally agree with but are they not for those who left truth or denied truth after having lived it?

servant

03-15-2003, 04:31 PM

I believe many people get caught in what I like to call the "performance trap" and end up backsliding. They feel like they cannot "perform" like they should, so therefore they are overcome with guilt and condemnation. They feel as if they are unworthy of God's love and acceptance anymore, so they give up.
If the truth be told, NONE OF US are worthy of God's love and acceptance! Thank God this isn't based soley on our performance, but on God's love and grace and mercy! This is a covenant relationship we are in, not an audition.
The world's love is conditional, based on how we perform. Many of us hold jobs in which we periodically receive a performance review. We are told the areas we are doing good in, and the areas that need improvement. If we don't perform up to standards, eventually we could be terminated.
God's love, however, is unconditional. Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His mercy He saved us. If we could understand that God wants us to be saved more than we do, and that He loves us with a love greater than any we have ever known, we may not be so prone to give up on Him.
God did not design our relationship with Him to be like some kind of maze or obstacle course that we have to stumble and fumble through, and if we mess up, we're out. No, saints, He wants us to make it!!! He's going to do everything He can to see to it that we make it.
This is not a "one strike and you're out" situation here. It's not even a "three strikes and you're out" situation. Jesus told His disciples to forgive up to seventy times seven. How much more is He willing to forgive! God is rich in mercy, and very gracious and full of compassion and pity. He's not some wild-eyed old man with a long white beard, foaming at the mouth just waiting for you to mess up so He can hurl a lightning bolt at you. No, friend, He's a loving God! He's a merciful God! He loves you so much, He came to this earth as a man and suffered and died for you!!!
God wants us to be saved. He doesn't want anyone to be lost. It's not His good pleasure to see anyone lost for eternity. The Psalmist said "surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life." You can't run from God's goodness and mercy. It'll follow you right up to the gates of hell itself.

God bless,

Serv :)

survivor4christ

03-15-2003, 11:53 PM

Romans 8
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

I interpret the above scripture as meaning that w/o faith, it impossble to be saved first and foremost w/o faith. We must have faith in the Word given forth in order to receive it and act upon it. We must faith that if we seek the Lord He will fill us with the Holy Ghost. Everything in this walk with Christ starts with faith.

I say all this to suggest that maybe many 'backslide' b/c that is what they believe are their only options. The goodness and mercies of God are not being taught enough, so many walk around thinking, like Serv says, that God is out to get them when in actuality, He is not. He wishes that NONE would perish and that all will come to repentance.

And what leads to repentance?

Romans 2
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

It is His goodness! Period!

When a husband is trying to win his wife back to him, what does he do? He brings her flowers, candy, a gift, showers affection, love and tenderness on her. What woman could resist that?

Same as God. God is not wanting anyone to perish. He wants all to come to repentance, and we all have something to repent of. Thank God for His Mercies! If it wasn't for His Mercies, we all would be in a world of trouble!

Love, Sis. Wenona

Thelordisone

03-17-2003, 10:05 AM

Praise the Lord All!!

Ron,

You say you got rebaptized? I assume you were not baptized in Jesus name the first time right?

Everyone,

We are married to each other just like any other marriage. Just that He remains faithfull when sometimes we do not. But if you except to be taken with him when He comes and not be ashamed we better be faithFULL(Will the son of man find faith when he returns to the earth?). We must have peace and holiness!!(Heb 4:12) And our whole being, spirit, soul & flesh must be irreprensible at his coming.

IN HIS NAME,

Adoniyah

03-17-2003, 05:05 PM

Great testimony Sis. Wenona:

You quoted the scripture..."the goodness of God leadeth men to repentance." That includes a sweet little lady with a sweet little boy too...

You have a great testimony of the grace and favor of God. I always enjoy reading how the Lord has so richly blessed you.

pastorb

03-17-2003, 06:07 PM

Servant , You said this is not a one, two, or three strile situation.

No it's not but the bible says that the soul that sinneth [practices sin] it will surely die. So the need is for the backslider to repent and even though he was saved, Goodness and mercy are only keeping him alive long enough to repent, or God will turn him into a reprobate if he continually rejects the truth.

servant

03-17-2003, 07:23 PM

Pastorb,
Yes, you are right, my brother. A heart that continually rejects the mercies of God is in danger of hell fire. A soul that continually and willfully tramples on the Blood will perish. You will have to trample over and through the Blood to get to the gates of Hell. A soul that confesses and forsakes his sin will be saved.

Serv :)

pastorb

03-17-2003, 07:27 PM

Amen Amen

bishop1

03-17-2003, 09:32 PM

What about the wise and foolish virgins ?

What about vessels with holes ?

Don't tread on trying to justify a backslid condition !

I know of one example of a woman who wanted to divorce her husband because she thought that she had found someone else that was worth more money. She had it all figured out, so she backslid, cut her hair, bought some slacks, started wearing make-up and filed for a divorce. Her Grounds - He went to church too much thus causing mental cruelty. She got her divorce and then broke up another family that was attending the church. The other man got his divorce also. Two days after the divorces were final they got married by a judge. I have watched this couple consistantly go to the altars in all area churches and at every revival/special/evangelistic service with no avail.

Esau sought bitterly with tears and found no place of repentance.
GOD NEVER PROMISED US A SECOND CHANCE !

GOD is Merciful BUT don"t Play Around With Your Salvation !

In Revelation it states if you were LUKE-WARM HE would SPEW you out of His Mouth.

servant

03-18-2003, 11:04 AM

Bishop1,
Amen and amen.

Serv :)

BroDane

03-19-2003, 04:14 PM

Well put sister D!! :tup:

Hnovilla

03-19-2003, 07:10 PM

His Name is Jesus!

The Lord was speaking to His people then, even as He is speaking to His people now. WHAt About the backslider? Has he NOT repented? Is he NOT baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION of sins? Has he NOT received the gift of the Holy Spirit? Then he is NOT MARRIED to the Lord. But if one HAS repented, been baptized, and received the Holy Spirit, then are we MARRIED to the Lord, and He WILL NOT divorce us!
Beloved, a child is a child until the last breathe of life; otherwise, we would have ALL ALREADY been buried in our sins without a chance to call upon His Name. But the Lord is faithful in this marriage with which we are married.
Brother Villa

bishop1

03-20-2003, 03:41 AM

Are We Not Married To The Lord ?

I am sincerely trying to understand your train of thought.

Lets See Now mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm -

I know of examples of men who did Not divorce their wives,
BUT Their wives divorced them.
The husbands were true and stayed faithful to their wayward wives but they were divorced anyway.
As one judge apply put it, "Son, you just can't hog tie her , if she wants to run, she'll run".
When the unbelieving backsliding wife wants a DIVORCE, then She Will Get One.
When a wife divorces her husband
'Is He Still Married To Her'?
Can she come back anytime she wants to after the divorce?
Can he return to her any time he wants to?
I Think Not !

The Bible Gave Only One Cause For Divorce.

When You Back Slide And Leave GOD - He did not leave you,
You Left Him and joined yourself to the world.

WHEN YOU BACK SIDE
Are you still married to God ?
- Is GOD Still Married To You ?

READ Matthew 12:43/45
{43} When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh thru dry places, seeking rest, findeth none.
{44} Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
[45} Then goeth he, and taketh with hin SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Now Read Luke 11:23/26
{23} He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
{24} When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh thru dry places, seking rest: and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came Out.
{25} And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
{26} Then goeth he, and taketh to him SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

When You Backslide it sounds to me like you will become 8 times worse off than you were before you first came to the Lord.
Please Don't Play Around With Your Precious Salvation.
Cherish It And Nurture It.

When You Backslide, Is GOD Still Married To You ?

If You Believe That Is True
Then You Probaly Believe "ONCE SAVED ? ALLWAYS SAVED !

And believe that every time that you commit a sin - then run back to the church and get baptized again so that they will be washed away . I THINK NOT !
Don't Crucify Him Afresh.

THE BIBLE ONLY GAVE ONE CAUSE FOR DIVORCE !

I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE CONCERNING MY SALVATION !

EVERY DAY I PRAY LIKE THAT OLE SONG;
Oh Lord, Don't Let Me Fail
Cause I want to be in the Bride
When my faith gets weak
Lord keep me by thy side
and when my eyes grow dim
only let me see
Something in my life
That Thou Has Done For Me.

HE IS COMMING BACK FOR A BRIDE --
A BRIDE WITH SPOT
OR WRINKLE
OR SUCH THING !

Lets not let the 'suchthings' mar our wedding garment!
:bow:

tufluv

03-21-2003, 08:20 PM

Good post, BISHOP1!

NanaRenan

10-26-2004, 01:24 AM

Heres a scripture that bothers me when I see someone continually backsliding....

Rom 1:28-32
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
(KJV)

Wow this is too much to ignore for me....
This was an interesting thread I found in the "back room".

I'd like to say, there are some of us who've "wandered" a time or two, or three, etc......and there comes a time when you just KNOW not to do it again, to guard against it with all your might and call on the Power of the Holy Ghost to help you stand.

Having been a backslider and having discussed it with others -- I don't think one can slip completely into that reprobate mind without some warning that they ignore.

milady

10-26-2004, 03:09 AM

I have to laugh because I thought this thread was about marriage when I read the subject line :icon_laug
and had no idea it would be about backsliders

christian

10-26-2004, 10:25 AM

Here's my simple take,I think God is married to The Backslider in the sense that God will take the backslider back ,in the sense that who one is married would take back a spouse who is unfaithful.
As far as predestination,individuals are not predestined to be saved or lost,but Saved folk are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.
In order words if you are in the body of Christ,then beacuse the Holy Ghost is in you you will be molded by the spirit into a likeness of Christ,because you are in his family.Roms 8:28,29

cg6098

10-26-2004, 03:52 PM

I don't know if I believe that a person who is backslidden and living in a sin such as adultry or openly homosexual who once has the Holy Ghost still has the Holy Ghost.I don't see alot of bible to defend that.In fact we cast lots of Devils out of people in a situation such as this.When a person writhes like a serpent or a woman speaks with the voice of a man at the altar and she is a backslider I can't see how they still have the Holy Ghost.
God can also pronounce a temple Icabod.
We are now the temple.
Check out this scripture:

ICHABOD

[IK uh bahd] (inglorious)-- a son of Phinehas and grandson of Eli, the high priest. Several national and family tragedies prompted the wife of Phinehas to name her child Ichabod, declaring, "The glory has departed from Israel!" <1 Sam. 4:21>.
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary)

1 Sam 4:21-22
21 And she named the child Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel: because the ark of God was taken, and because of her father in law and her husband.
22 And she said, The glory is departed from Israel: for the ark of God is taken.
(KJV)

The ark is a representation of the presence and indwelling of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The ark dwelt in the temple in the Holy of Holies.
We are now the temple if the presence of God dwells in us.
How about a few scriptures and some understanding about all this?Speaking of casting out demons, is it possible to be spiritually oppressed and still have the Holy Ghost? Is it possible for a spirit to attack a person and go into that person where it tries to get them to do stuff but they resist because they don't want to sin? I've seen instances where people have been oppressed where a spirit would try to manipulate their behavior but they resisted because they didn't want to do that. I've also seen where a spirit would put a thought in somens head to get them to dwell on it but they rebuked it and it left, or more correctly the Lord rebuked it when they began to wordhip. In addition, I know a persom who is oppressed because of the things that they are allowing in their home. As a matter of fact my sister commented that this person looked terrible and that this person's home was full of darkness. I am concerned thathathe/she might be backslid. when I saw this I also made the statement "Ichabod" because it was simply evident that the Glory had departed from their home, although they still faithfully attend church. One more thing, if a person has highplaces in their lives they can stil go to church and worship God but they have lost their first love.

ddc101

10-27-2004, 12:06 AM

Yes I believe that but not like the instance I was speaking of.These instances were where people were living in open sin after knowing the Lord and doing exceedingly abominable practices to the point where they are convinced that the word does not apply in their instances.
But as for a person who is still church going and trying that is different.They need deliverance.l know one man who is so far gone he rides around praying for his next hit of cocaine.Sad but true.Then he goes to an apostolic church and tries to speak in tongues.I did not say sucessfully either.And then he goes right back out to the crack houses an prostitutes.That is my dear friend making a ship wreck of your faith.lv sis.c