el-o-heem'

[jwharvell]

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I have a thought or idea for you to ponder here not a doctrine just something I have been studying and would like some input on. First let me share a definition.



el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.


I have always been taught and read in books by oneness preachers that because el-o-heem' is used in the old testament and is translated God and is plural it refers to the pluralness of God. Yet God is in no way a trinity. I read the definition of el-oheem' very deffrently. If you look at how many times this word is used in the old testament to refeer to gods other than the One True God. For instance.

Exo 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

God says he will make pharoh thank of him as a el-o-heem'. I believe the word is plural in the since it can refeer to many gods but, it is SINGULAR when refering to "THE SUPREME GOD" as in Gen. 1:26. Just as we use words like man that can be plural and singular at times. Now the word Jehovah refeers to only one God and can't be used in this since at all.

What do you think?

[jwharvell]

Any thoughts?

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!

El-ohim:
by its literal translation = gods.
in its definition: the ONE who has all powers.
That is where the denominations have erred. They 'see' the POWERS, in its plurality, as 'gods'. They miss its singular (the ONE) completely.
When addressing Abraham, the scriptures read: "...I am El-ohim...", that is, the ONE who has all powers, "...the all Mighty..."

Other scriptures refer to the el-ohim of the pagans: referring to the many gods they serve.
Whereas the Church serves the ONE who has All Powers: which is Jesus.

Brother Villa

[Jesuseeker7]

I do not know much about the original Hebrew or any of that, although a Trinitarian has approached me with that view before. My question to him was this: If "Elohim" (supposedly plural, according to a Trinitarian) created man in His own image in Gen. 1:27, where is the three-ness of man? I would be interested to know how a Trinitarian would answer that, because the one I asked realized there was a flaw in his theory somewhere.

Any thoughts on that perspective?

[jwharvell]

This is my point the only reason el-o-heem' is plural is it is a general term used for any gods except for when it refered to the Supreme God. Thats the flaw with the trinitarian veiw on the word and in my opinion with some oneness teachers saying because this word is used there is a pluralness to God yet he is not a trinity. This veiw has never made since to me. Jehovah or (Yaweh) is specific to the old testament to the GOD of Isreal and Jesus to the New testament both notable singular names.

[ddc101]

Eloheem.....the God from whom comes many things....
lv sis.c

[mfblume]

I saved this from an author named DOn PETERS:

1. Many Hebrew words are plural in construction but singular in usage, such as "face", "life", "water" and "heaven". Even so, the meaning of these words and the verbs that are used with them are singular.

2. Elohim (when applied to God) is always used with a singular verb: words such as "is" and "created" (Gen 1:1) are used with it only in singular constructions. But Elohim, when applied to pagan deities, is always used with a plural verb.

3. In these cases, individual gods are called Elohim:

* Jdg 8:33 Baalberith
* Jdg 11:24 Chemosh
* Jdg 16:23 Dagon
* 1Ki 11:5 Ashtoreth
* 2Ki 1:2-3 Baalzebub
* 2Ki 19:37 Nisroch
* Ex 32:1-31 The (single) golden calf

Although it is possible for Elohim to apply to multiple "gods":

* 1Sa 28:13 spirit beings
* Ps 82:1-6 human rulers or judges

4. We must especially note Ashtoreth, with its -eth ending, which signifies a FEMALE SINGULAR identity. And yet Ashtoreth is called Elohim, which is a MALE PLURAL noun. How can this be, if Elohim necessitates three persons? Clearly it does not.

5. Elohim wrestled with Jacob, yet there was only one being wrestling with him (Gen 32:24-28).

6. The Bible applies "Elohim" to Moses (Ex 7:1), but no one suggests that there were three persons in Moses.

7. The Bible applies "Elohim" to Jesus Christ (Ps 45:6, Zech 12:8-10; 14:5), but no one suggests there are three persons in Christ.

8. Elohim is called our "father" in Mal 2:10: "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? ..."

9. Eloah (the singular for Elohim) is also used for God in verses such as Neh 9:17. El is also used for God in places such as Gen 14:18. If Elohim means three persons, then El means one person.

10. The largest Hebrew-English lexicon ever produced says that Elohim is an example of a "plural intensive" (Brown, Driver, Briggs; Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament.)

11. Jewish scholars argue that "Elohim is a plural form which is often used in Hebrew to denote plenitude of might" (Hertz, The Pentateuch and Haftorahs). Others say, "The form of the word, Elohim, is plural. The Hebrews pluralized nouns to express greatness or majesty" (Flanders, Cresson; Introduction to the Bible). And again, "The idea that Elohim referred to a plurality of persons in the Godhead when referring to the living God hardly finds now a supporter among scholars" (Smith's Bible Dictionary).

12. John Calvin, who was the chief prosecutor of Michael Servetus, had Servetus put to death on the basis that he denied three persons in the Godhead. Yet Calvin, who knew Hebrew, ridiculed any attempt to find a Trinity using anything from the Old Testament (Robert Brent Graves, The God of Two Testaments.)

13. If "Elohim" is a plural word referring to three persons, then "El" must refer to only one of those three persons. This would mean a Trinitarian would have a massive job explaining which instances of "El" in the scriptures referred to which Triune Person in Elohim.

In summary, any use of the word Elohim must be kept totally in a singular context. In many ways, the Bible shows that the word "Elohim" in entirely singular in concept, despite its grammatical plurality. There was only one golden calf called Elohim, only one being called Elohim wrestled with Jacob, and only one being, Jesus Christ, called Elohim.

Written by Don Peters (a Christian)

[jwharvell]

Thats a great article Bro.Blume. Is that on the Institue for biblical Studies site? Because I looked there for something on this when I was studing this.

[mfblume]

Peters did indeed write a great article. I do not think it is there, brother.

[acts238defender]

Elohim is defined as the God with a plurality of majesties. Much like ancient kings would assign the regions they were ruling over as part of their greeting (Hail, James, King of England, King of Thames, King of All Isles). The man would have multiple dominions, and would still be the only one is rulership over them.
Elohim is used in the same type here. Jesus Christ, has a plurality of dominions. He rules Heaven, Earth, Sky, Sea, and the hearts of His people.

[BigBillPrice]

Since my last post, my Pastr taught me something very interesting. In the Old testament, when they spoke of a specific diety, whether God, Baal, ashteroh, or any other, they always used a plural tense of the form of their name. that was due in some sort of reverance. They always spoke of plurality of all dieties. So, for the trinity to use Elohim as proof of a Trinity is simply a false assumption.

[Praxeas]

If elohim refers to separate gods then why limit their number to just three?

[stan111]

Greek Philosphy married into Christianity ! It just goes beyond me that there are so called scholars out there that don't see this truth (Oneness of God). The reasoning behind the scriptures they use are so out of context. They don't realize that, they are promoting the worship of more then one gods, justifying it by saying, no you have to look at it as one god, even though they believe it is three. Kind of a psycological trickery. That blows my mind !

If elohim refers to separate gods then why limit their number to just three?

[bdubs85]

I know that threeness has been applied to many things, of the Godhead, of the body, soul, and spirit, and the "three" wise men (which is never mentioned in the Bible, only three gifts...). Elohim (as I've seen it used to describe God) is plurality of majesty, of power. While it could be used as a plurality of persons, I don't think it is translated in the KJV that way. I know that In Gen. 1:1 "In the beginning God (Elohim)..."; Gen. 1:2 "And the Spirit (not spirits) of God...", and the list goes on and on.

The word as phonetically translated el-o-heem' is translated in the KJV an overwhelmingly number of times as "God". And yes, the word is singular when taken in context as well...
KJV (2606) - GOD, 1; God, 2346; God-ward + (04136 (http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=04136)), 1; angels, 1; exceeding, 1; god, 244; goddess, 2; godly, 1; great, 2; judge, 5; mighty, 2;


However, when we get onto other versions (NAS and others), the word elohim is often translated a little differently.
NAS (2604) - God, 2326; God's, 14; divine, 1; divine being, 1; exceedingly, 1; god, 45; goddess, 2; godly, 1; gods, 204; great, 2; judges, 3; mighty, 2; rulers, 1; shrine, 1;

[PastorS]

Very well stated, it is refreshing that someone has actually worded and explained this matter so simply. Thank you brother Blume.

Elohiym has in by it self many meanings in the Old testament. Thats why it is given as a title not a name.

This title has many different meanings and is rendered in general through all of the old testament as Plural, Plural Intensive, and Singular. It is believed to have come from the word elowahh, meaning simply GOD or false gods.

It is very interesting to note the first two letters of the word ELohiym. El', having in itself many different meanings which include. God or the One true God to the hebrew. If you and I dig a little deeper, we would find the word Immanuw'el or in the english immanu'el. God with us. Our Elohim, immanuel Yoshua. Our only true God, Jesus.

Immanuel="with us God" or "God with us"

I saved this from an author named DOn PETERS:

1. Many Hebrew words are plural in construction but singular in usage, such as "face", "life", "water" and "heaven". Even so, the meaning of these words and the verbs that are used with them are singular.

2. Elohim (when applied to God) is always used with a singular verb: words such as "is" and "created" (Gen 1:1) are used with it only in singular constructions. But Elohim, when applied to pagan deities, is always used with a plural verb.

3. In these cases, individual gods are called Elohim:

* Jdg 8:33 Baalberith
* Jdg 11:24 Chemosh
* Jdg 16:23 Dagon
* 1Ki 11:5 Ashtoreth
* 2Ki 1:2-3 Baalzebub
* 2Ki 19:37 Nisroch
* Ex 32:1-31 The (single) golden calf

Although it is possible for Elohim to apply to multiple "gods":

* 1Sa 28:13 spirit beings
* Ps 82:1-6 human rulers or judges

4. We must especially note Ashtoreth, with its -eth ending, which signifies a FEMALE SINGULAR identity. And yet Ashtoreth is called Elohim, which is a MALE PLURAL noun. How can this be, if Elohim necessitates three persons? Clearly it does not.

5. Elohim wrestled with Jacob, yet there was only one being wrestling with him (Gen 32:24-28).

6. The Bible applies "Elohim" to Moses (Ex 7:1), but no one suggests that there were three persons in Moses.

7. The Bible applies "Elohim" to Jesus Christ (Ps 45:6, Zech 12:8-10; 14:5), but no one suggests there are three persons in Christ.

8. Elohim is called our "father" in Mal 2:10: "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? ..."

9. Eloah (the singular for Elohim) is also used for God in verses such as Neh 9:17. El is also used for God in places such as Gen 14:18. If Elohim means three persons, then El means one person.

10. The largest Hebrew-English lexicon ever produced says that Elohim is an example of a "plural intensive" (Brown, Driver, Briggs; Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament.)

11. Jewish scholars argue that "Elohim is a plural form which is often used in Hebrew to denote plenitude of might" (Hertz, The Pentateuch and Haftorahs). Others say, "The form of the word, Elohim, is plural. The Hebrews pluralized nouns to express greatness or majesty" (Flanders, Cresson; Introduction to the Bible). And again, "The idea that Elohim referred to a plurality of persons in the Godhead when referring to the living God hardly finds now a supporter among scholars" (Smith's Bible Dictionary).

12. John Calvin, who was the chief prosecutor of Michael Servetus, had Servetus put to death on the basis that he denied three persons in the Godhead. Yet Calvin, who knew Hebrew, ridiculed any attempt to find a Trinity using anything from the Old Testament (Robert Brent Graves, The God of Two Testaments.)

13. If "Elohim" is a plural word referring to three persons, then "El" must refer to only one of those three persons. This would mean a Trinitarian would have a massive job explaining which instances of "El" in the scriptures referred to which Triune Person in Elohim.

In summary, any use of the word Elohim must be kept totally in a singular context. In many ways, the Bible shows that the word "Elohim" in entirely singular in concept, despite its grammatical plurality. There was only one golden calf called Elohim, only one being called Elohim wrestled with Jacob, and only one being, Jesus Christ, called Elohim.

Written by Don Peters (a Christian)

[Chancellor]

His NAME is Jesus!

El-ohim:
by its literal translation = gods.
in its definition: the ONE who has all powers.
That is where the denominations have erred. They 'see' the POWERS, in its plurality, as 'gods'. They miss its singular (the ONE) completely.
When addressing Abraham, the scriptures read: "...I am El-ohim...", that is, the ONE who has all powers, "...the all Mighty..."

Other scriptures refer to the el-ohim of the pagans: referring to the many gods they serve.
Whereas the Church serves the ONE who has All Powers: which is Jesus.

Brother Villa
I believe that, in reference to God, elohiym is being used as a superlative, i.e., "the most mighty" or "all-mighty" (almighty).

[warmbee]

Don't know the facts to this, but one of the girls at my church and I were talking about gen 1:26 one day and she told me that in the days when the KJV was written kings would often refer to themselves as plural to kinda make themselves sound bigger I guess.

BTW I love the reponses I'm seeing on here (only read the first page so far) learning alot! I've been bumping into JW's like crazy and then BOOM! we got a thread on the Oneness of God to help me study:banana:

[Donny Cage]

Don't know the facts to this, but one of the girls at my church and I were talking about gen 1:26 one day and she told me that in the days when the KJV was written kings would often refer to themselves as plural to kinda make themselves sound bigger I guess.

BTW I love the reponses I'm seeing on here (only read the first page so far) learning alot! I've been bumping into JW's like crazy and then BOOM! we got a thread on the Oneness of God to help me study:banana:

We should start a thread about what Jehovah's witnesses believe and how to refute their false doctrine.

This is a rundown of what they believe...

They don't believe Jesus is God. Their NWT Bible, incorrectly translate John 1:1 to say, "Word was with God and the Word was a god" (little g). Specifically, they believe Jesus is the Arch Angel Michael. They believe He was spiritually created (the first created being). They don't believe the Holy Spirit is God, but rather the "power" or "force" of God. They don't believe Jesus was physically resurrected. They believe His body evaporated and God re-created Him. They believe the cross is a pagan symbol. They believe Jesus was crucified on a beam, not on a cross. And of course the believe Jesus (or Michael) returned invisibly and set up the watchtower, which they believe is the mouthpeice of Jehovah.

BTW - if you are interested in reading it, I made a thread demonstrating how Jesus is Jehovah

http://www.goodnewscafe.net/showthread.php?t=9315

It's easy to prove Jesus is God. But to a Jehovah's witness, you have to do more than that. For instance, if you show them Isaiah 9:6 where it plainly calls Jesus "Mighty God" they say, "He is only called a god, in the same sense, men and angels are called 'gods'" - so you actually have to prove to them that Jesus is the YHWH (Jehovah) of the Old Testament.