Church Corruption in History

[lamama]

From part of an original post by Dave Huston from the thread "Counseling at the GNC"

"To say that elders were the leaders of home churches and bishops were the leaders of city-wide churches is going beyond the Scripture. The earliest writings that suggest such a concept are those of Ignatius, who wrote, “Let no one do anything touching the Church, apart from the bishop. Where the bishop appears, there let the people be.... It is not permitted without authorization from the bishop either to baptize or to hold an agape, but whatever he approves is also pleasing to God.” The writings of Ignatius are the earliest to make a distinction between bishops and elders (Letter to the Trallians, 3:1). He went on to say, “He who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop worships the devil.” It was statements such as these that formed the seeds that eventually grew into the all-powerful, inerrant papacy, which is the root of today’s single pastor system." - Dave Huston

I would like to know if anyone has access to other historical quotes such as the above from Ignatius.

Also, is anyone aware of links or other convenient places to find factual information regarding early church history, that you might like to share?

www.GloriousChurch.com

[Truthseeker]

From part of an original post by Dave Huston from the thread "Counseling at the GNC"

"To say that elders were the leaders of home churches and bishops were the leaders of city-wide churches is going beyond the Scripture. The earliest writings that suggest such a concept are those of Ignatius, who wrote, “Let no one do anything touching the Church, apart from the bishop. Where the bishop appears, there let the people be.... It is not permitted without authorization from the bishop either to baptize or to hold an agape, but whatever he approves is also pleasing to God.” The writings of Ignatius are the earliest to make a distinction between bishops and elders (Letter to the Trallians, 3:1). He went on to say, “He who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop worships the devil.” It was statements such as these that formed the seeds that eventually grew into the all-powerful, inerrant papacy, which is the root of today’s single pastor system." - Dave Huston

I would like to know if anyone has access to other historical quotes such as the above from Ignatius.

Also, is anyone aware of links or other convenient places to find factual information regarding early church history, that you might like to share?

www.GloriousChurch.com

I don't got nothing from history, but it's quite clear in scripture a Bishop is an elder. An elder in the church is a bishop.

[lamama]

I don't got nothing from history, but it's quite clear in scripture a Bishop is an elder. An elder in the church is a bishop.

Amen. That is how the LORD has graciously allowed us to see it as well. And that simple fact alone, that the word bishop equals elder in the New Testament, makes all the difference in His Church.

Praise be to Jesus whose spirit is guiding and will continue to guide those who desire to receive a love for the truth, into all truth.

Appreciate the feedback.

www.GloriousChurch.com

[Truthseeker]

Amen. That is how the LORD has graciously allowed us to see it as well. And that simple fact alone, that the word bishop equals elder in the New Testament, makes all the difference in His Church.

Praise be to Jesus whose spirit is guiding and will continue to guide those who desire to receive a love for the truth, into all truth.

Appreciate the feedback.

www.GloriousChurch.com


We have become so traditionalized in our view of ministry that when we hear what saith the scirptures it seems so foreign to us. For most to hear a church can have more then one bishop is more then they can bear regardless of what the book says. Kinda like tithes.

[pdavis]

Bro. Dave - I have linked your book as well as Bro. Dale Rumble's book along with mine on Apostolic Church Government on my website www.apostolicforum.com (http://www.apostolicforum.com). I certainly do believe that collegial eldership is the scriptural plan. Of course, I do believe that if a man is serving as a pastor, he is the elder, and should receive the respect due the office of elder. It is his duty to eventually put in place the other elders just as when Moses did. God then put the spirit of Moses on the other seventy.

I believe that the very reason why the average church in America is about 50 people is because so many churches are single dimensional in ministry. A local church should not have to "bring in" evangelist. They should be functioning within the local church with full liberty to serve in that ministry. I stated in my book that many churches are pastored by evangelist so they have a great revolving door of people in an out. They are single dimensional because they really don't have pastors in place. And many churches are pastored by pastors and have little growth because the evangelistic ministry in not in place. God has a plan for church growth called The Five Fold Ministry. We have depended on soul winning seminars, beating the sheep, and program to try to bring church growth - but the church has to grow from the top - that is with a growing ministry.