Oneness Preachers preaching in Trinitarian Church

[breadmanbla]

Have any Oneness Preachers ever preached or been invited to preach in a Trinitarian Church?
Have any Oneness preachers ever invited a Trinitarian preacher to preach in the church that YOU pastor?

Regards

breadmanbla

[breadmanbla]

Sorry bout that folks...I have moved this post to the "Pastoring" group

[ddc101]

Last Christmas my husband preached at First Baptist.And I sat on the front pew and amened! lv sis.c

[nightwatchman]

You can post it here,yes,I will preach anywhere that the Lord leads me too.Yes I have heard of oneness churches letting trins.preach in there churches,I know it can cause a lot of problems.

[John Atkinson]

My Pastor (Bro Rutledge) has preached in trinitarian churches, and I would as well.

As far as the recipricol? No, not ever. Testify, yes, preach...No.

I think that falls into the "Real Bad Idea" category.

[Norman]

My Dad preached in a Trinity church at least once.
Last year in Texas a oneness preacher preached to a group of "Church of God in Christ" preachers. I don't remember his name.

[milady]

I have never heard of a oneness preacher preaching at trinitarian church or visa versa. Mainly because there are two different view points represented here. But,I think it would be great if a oneness preacher would preach at trinitarian churches though.

[breadmanbla]

Do you think that the Oneness preacher ought to make this clear right from the beginning? That is, "I'll come and preach for you, but no way will I ever let you come and preach for me."
We let the JW's have their uninterupted talk...5 or 10 minutes then are able to do the same. If they interupt during our 5 or 10 minutes, then we have the right to tell them, "I didn't interupt you." Try doiing the same with their mags. Take one on the previso that they take our tracts. Most likely they will not do this.
Perhaps we ought to tell the JWs that after thyey are finished with their talk, then it's our turn.

[Norman]

"I have never heard of a oneness preacher preaching at trinitarian church"

you have now.

[Deonna]

Bro Tenney did. I have the tape but don't know if it's still playable...my hubby spilled coffee on it. :(

We were invited many times when I was a teen to the Disciples of Christ church and 7th Day Adventist church to sing. I know that's not preaching, but still for them to open their doors and invite us to come sing not just once but time and again is awesome to me. It was a great witness to them and they felt something different in our songs.

[sisdh]

I have never met anyone quite like Bro Rutledge in my life. I think if more apostolics were as open as Bro Rutledge is we would see a great revival in all our churches!!!My Pastor (Bro Rutledge) has preached in trinitarian churches, and I would as well.

As far as the recipricol? No, not ever. Testify, yes, preach...No.

I think that falls into the "Real Bad Idea" category.

[breadmanbla]

Thanks for all the posts....appreciate reading them. Yes....Singing is a proclamation as well.
I'm off to visit with a Baptist Minister today.....I would appreciate prayer for wisdom and favour from the Lord to touch this man's heart.

[Jesusonly]

I know some apostolic preacher that have preach at trinitarian churches and at the same time these preacher allow trinitarian to preach at their church, but they can not preach about their doctrine or give the alter call. My pastor do not allow any of that mess into his church and i agree with him 100%.

[acts238defender]

I would preach at a Trinitarian church, but all I would preach there is Acts 2:38 salvation. But as far as allowing them to come and preach at my church, that is completely out of the question.

[ddc101]

I will go where ever the door opens...Paul preached on Mars Hill.lv sis.c

[Deonna]

Amen!!!!!!

(I had to add some exclamations ~ it said my post was too short) :goof:

[breadmanbla]

I would preach at a Trinitarian church, but all I would preach there is Acts 2:38 salvation. But as far as allowing them to come and preach at my church, that is completely out of the question.
defender of Acts 2:38.....I appreciate your post..thank you....
Just a couple of thoughts.........:idea:
I understand your stand on Acts 2:38...we Oneness people probably preach this more than anyone else? However, there were many more people saved after that one time recorded gospel message of Peter's to the Jews at Jesusalem. Acts 2:38 is the response to the Gospel that Peter preached. Acts 2:38 is not the gospel. And so we see that others and again Peter continued to preach the proper responce to the gospel....
Repent......Be Baptised in the name of Jesus...Receive the Holy Ghost.
Christ Jesus is our Salvation. :D Not Acts 2:38
Ex 15:2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation:
Ps 118:14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.
Ps 118:21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Even in the OT "The LORD...is become my salvation".........X3
And............... "...............at become my salvation".........X1
We also read in the NT
Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; (etc etc etc etc who said......)
Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
(He was holding Jesus in his arms when he said this.)
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There surely is more than one way to preach a salvation message in any church...trinitiarian or Oneness

Lord Bless

[jhlent]

Amen - Amen - Amen

Great point you have made there breadmanbla, there is a WHOLE lot more to Preach and Teach about and still bring it to the same conclusion.

[Landmark Laf]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a oneness preacher preaching in a trinitarian church. In fact, I see many goods in it.

I go to Landmark Lafayette. Our assistant pastor, Chad Brown, preached at a non-denominational trinitarian church a few months ago. Recently, certain circumstances forced them to lose their pastor. Well, remembering Chad and his powerful message (no, it was not a slam down your throat oneness message), they approached us about taking them under our wing. About becoming one of our daughter-works.

A few days ago, Landmark Jenearette purchased a new piece of land and a new building. Still growing.

God is God.

[Pastor D]

An excellent testimony. As you read the book of Acts, we understand that the apostles continued to interact with the other sects in Judaism, including the Pharisees. Consequently, they spread the gospel through a broad base of people. I believe that it is the will of God that we be open to a number of people in order to get the whole truth to the whole world. The key is to first make sure that your congregation is well-taught as it relates to the apostolic faith. Secondly, we must teach our congregations to respect all people including those who do have not received the whole truth. So often, our attitude of superiority repels more people that are attracted by our preaching and teaching. Finally, we must expect God to bring the increase. It may not come the first or second time, but if the seed has been planted, it will yield truth.

Pastor D

[ddc101]

Amen!
When God opens a door we need to walk through.It would do alot more good to preach on a powerful topic like prayer or even faith or how about The Love of God? People need a door to open not a wall to block their entrance into the kingdom.There are alot of men and women like Apollos out there.We just need to be sensitive to the Lords leading.lv sis.c

[RevDooley]

I see no problem with going to any church and preaching the truth. It is very important for us to realize that we are not the only people out there who believe this one God message. There are many others. They simply need to see it in front of them to realize that it is what they are looking for. Sometimes people are drwan to the only light they have ever known. When the Son or Daystar arises, all others will eclipse in their eyes.

[slr213]

Man I love all of this stuff.



I could get absolutely lost in here…there are a lot of discussions going on…

I hope I don’t get “lost” … kinda like having been found.



On that note…

I wish we would do a better job of befriending the trinity folks.

We look at the mission field and see whole congregations converting…
that will not happen here – until you make a friend…you love them the same why Christ loves them...He is not there trying to force the issue... He is just there loving them.


Being friends with a non-believer might put you up for some peer scrutiny… but if you will risk it… and let them know that you are not out to steal sheep from there fold… they might trust you with the chance to let there congregation feel the powerful anointing that is supposed to be there when a JESUS name man gets behind the pulpit…



There is a lot of good to say about Jesus without offending someone who thinks they know Him, but so desperately need to know more.


opp's gota go.

[BroRutledge]

Man I love all of this stuff.



I could get absolutely lost in here…there are a lot of discussions going on…

I hope I don’t get “lost” … kinda like having been found.



On that note…

I wish we would do a better job of befriending the trinity folks.

We look at the mission field and see whole congregations converting…
that will not happen here – until you make a friend…you love them the same why Christ loves them...He is not there trying to force the issue... He is just there loving them.


Being friends with a non-believer might put you up for some peer scrutiny… but if you will risk it… and let them know that you are not out to steal sheep from there fold… they might trust you with the chance to let there congregation feel the powerful anointing that is supposed to be there when a JESUS name man gets behind the pulpit…



There is a lot of good to say about Jesus without offending someone who thinks they know Him, but so desperately need to know more.


opp's gota go.
Amen Praise God.

That is how I see it too. There is a hungry world full of people who are trying to serve God, and it is amazing what a little kindness can do.

Sometimes a smile, a pat on the back, and invitation to lunch, or just a kind word spoken can do more than all the Bible knowledge and understanding that we have.

God gets in this being kind business and wins them through love to the truth.

I have seen it happen over and over.

God bless
BroRutledge

[slr213]

I'd like to include (for controversial purposes only, you understand) that even an invitation to play a round of golf... might be in order.



Spend some time with them...



they do not always need to be viewed as the enemy.



Besides … the Godfather taught us… “keep your friends close and your enemies even closer”. (opp’s that’s sure to get me in some soup)



Didn’t Jesus really mess with us when he said; “if they ain’t against us their for us”.(rather light paraphrasing by yours truly)



I’d love to spend some time talking about the ethics of sheep stealing from unbelieving churches.

I'm not so sure that this would not be received very well.
But, you are going to have a hard time befriending someone who sees you as a robber and a thief coming to destroy the work that they have invested there life into.
(I’m pretty sure there is a better way to approach this … I’m not sure I have an answer, although, I think I might)


But if we are going to see them saved… I think it imperative that we are willing to be loving and kind and even considerate to those with whom we ABSOLUTLY do not, and cannot agree.



This is just me talking… (I’m not preaching this) I’m not so sure… I mean, I am glad none of you know me cause you’d see right through this and know that I have a long ways to go before I start living all of what I am saying.


Lord help me.

[ReneeP]

My Pastor (Bro Rutledge)

Bro Atkinson~
I was not aware of Bro Rutledge being your pastor

I find that quite interesting
:goof:

LOL...now let me explain why.....
I have read many MANY posts on here since I have joined and many times I have came acrossed yours and you post very blunt and to the point and NOTHING wrong with that LOL PLEASE..just humor me LOL

And I have heard Bro Rutledge on Pal Talk, and met some of his admins from there and his along with his helpers there are allso sweet and pleasant...
and then.......There's John big bad John :laugh:

Now listen.....I am very MUCH just having fun here lol
Please dont take offense...you do a wonderful job as admin/moderator from what I have seen :)

God bless,
Renee

[Whosoever Will]

"I would preach at a Trinitarian church, but all I would preach there is Acts 2:38 salvation. But as far as allowing them to come and preach at my church, that is completely out of the question."

I agree with what you said, but I wouldn't come right out with both guns blazing on Acts 2:38 and scare them away right from the start. I would wind up on Acts 2:38, but I would tell the greatest love story ever told on my way to Acts 2:38.

[ddc101]

Brother Rutledge I am glad to have become aquainted with you.You are such a soul winning minded person.Amen its refreshing.lv sis.c

[Abigail4476]

"I would preach at a Trinitarian church, but all I would preach there is Acts 2:38 salvation. But as far as allowing them to come and preach at my church, that is completely out of the question."

I agree with what you said, but I wouldn't come right out with both guns blazing on Acts 2:38 and scare them away right from the start. I would wind up on Acts 2:38, but I would tell the greatest love story ever told on my way to Acts 2:38.
I'm no preacher...(but my Daddy wuz....)...but I'd say wisdom is definitely in order...God deals with us in small doses and He is wisely aware of our portion tolerance...no reason to stuff an entire pie down someone's throat...small bites eventually get the whole thing eaten in a much more pleasant fashion....

A great book for learning how to deal with people is John Maxwell's "Becoming A Person of Influence"...great because its universal...it can relate to leading a congregation and just as easily relate to parenting skills...and of course, it is directly relevant to winning people to Christ. This book is my #1 recommendation--for the moment--until I read something better. (Personally, I'm still working on implementing the first chapter, and I read it 3 years ago....) WARNING: You have to participate in the "activities" and assignments in this book to get its full effect. Study will maximize effectiveness.

Just a sidenote...am I allowed to post in here? :ninja: Or is this just for pastors?

...just reading and commenting...

[scout]

Yes, I would preach at a trinitarian church if given the oportunity. And I have heard of a oneness preaching in a catholic church. I was raised Catholic and can remember hearing a oneness preacher come in and preach it to us. That was when I began to question the Catholic faith and then got married to a Pentecostal and she helped me see the truth. But yes, I feel that if I know the right way that it is my job to let others know also that Jesus is God. Why let others be led the wrong way? I beleive it is everyones duty to preach the word of God that they know is the truth. Again why let others believe the wrong thing?

[BurningforJesus]

The Pastor of our Canberra Church is over in Indonesia right now with another Pastor from Perth. They were contacted via our church website by this man. Now we have an oppurtunity to preach the truth, no doubt in a loving and non judgemental way. I am looking forward to hearing what the Lord has done:)

BTW. They went to Bali where, as far as we know there is no UPC church there. They are preaching in many different churches - all trinitarian churches. They are hungry for the truth in these last days.

Burning.

[slr213]

again,

I am praying for the day when we see whole churches convert to the truth...
This will not happen until we can witness to them in a spirit of Love...

If we simply preach "Christ Crucified" and let the love of the Father shine thrugh us. God will burn out false doctrine ... 1st Love - then doctrine...

Preach the truth where-ever you get the chance...
the truth is Christ died for the trinity folks as much as the oneness folks...


SLR

[Victoryitsmine1]

My husband has preached in a trinitarian church and we have also many friends who are apostolic preachers who have. One of our assistant pastors was asked to come and give a bible study to a baptist pastor 2 summers ago. The pastor at that bible study recieved a revelation of the oneness of God and he asked our friend to come preach this to his entire church, At which 80% of them also recieved the revelation and were all baptised in Jesus name along side of their pastor! This church is now a full blown ONE GOD APOSTOLIC TONGUE TALKIN JESUS NAME BAPTISING CHURCH FOR THE TRUTH!!!!!!!! Those who say dont do it, its not right need to wake up and realize. If WE dont preach the truth to them there is no way they will Get It!!! We are the key! So go out there and find ya a trini pastor and offer him a bible study! Think I am nuts? Nah! This year at because of the times there was a challenge of souls sent out... That was one of the most awesome things I had seen,, Pastors running up by the dozens to pledge souls they were going to personally win to the kingdom this year! Does that work? Let me tell ya. A dear friend of mine who is a preacher from Michigan.... Held bible study with 15 (think number is right) muslims last week and is holding one i believe with some Jehovahs witness people in this month some time! WE HAVE TO GO OUT!!!! REACH OUT!!! WORK OUT!!! ITS OUR CALL IT IS OUR COMMISSION!!! GO YE TO ALL THE WORLD! Not just some of it or part of it or the part of it we want to go to... ALL!!!!!!


Blessings in Jesus wonderful name
Sis T

[slr213]

We baptized a woman recently – a little on the “older” & a “few bricks short” kinda nice little woman.



Well she was a member of an ol’ established Lutheran church in the area…awesome how God works…

We would have normally counseled with her a little more but circumstances were a little opposed to that so we just went with it and baptized her.

She asked me last week to contact her pastor because he would not send a letter of release for her to attend our church till he had spoken with us. Did I tell you she is coming from a Lutheran church.

So I called and tried to reach him. to no avail. I stopped by his church and missed him… finally he called.

I was so glad t hear from him….

I told him how refreshing it was to find a pastor that actually cared about the people in his church… teased him about not being a “real pastor” because he didn’t play golf… (you know a little jovial light start to the conversation to follow.)

When we finally got into the meat of the matter, he asked me what the difference was from his church t ours…



It occurs to me that I fell back to the “tried & true”, I spoke of doctrine… I spoke of Water Baptism by emergence in the Name of Jesus… as opposed to titles/infants.



Again, is doctrine really the most significant difference… shouldn’t I be able to point out demonstration of deliverance & healings…signs & wonders?



Anyway… things went pretty well & when I mentioned that he probably knew all of what I was saying already … (this is where it gets exciting) he told me, in fact, he didn’t know anything about our doctrine. Well, I acted as stunned as you area… and told him I hated talking to him about this sort of thing over the phone… why don’t we meet at Starbucks… and talk abut this face to face…



So praise God… I get to go have oneness talk with a triune guy about 20 years my senior and 30 years my senior in the ministry….



God is so good.

Please pray for me though…

Someone said… pray that he breaks under the power of revelation… I am really just praying that he will warm to me… so I can build a friendship… God will take care of the rest.

I'm not preaching over there "YET" but in Jesus name... you just never know.

[Craigert]

I have preached at a few trinitarian churches and am preaching at the Good Friday Community Service this Friday, there will be Baptists, Methodists, Catholics and Apostolics. As far as the other is concerned I have allowed one Trinitarian pastor to preach. The key is simply to be upfront with them and with your congregation....... Some perhaps would view this as a compromise..... However I think if we are settled, bold and convinced of the Oneness view you can be secure.....Obviously knowing the minister would be a must! We would have to be sure that he would completely respect the churches doctrinal viewpoint and keep his views to himself

[BrotherBallard]

Craigert,
Be careful, remember your not the only one who has gone down the same path your going. When you allow trinitarians behind your pulpit, your in essence stating you agree with their dogma. Trinitarianism is paganism. It's humanism in one of it's most deceitful forms.
Please pray about your actions.
I'm concerned when brethern have done as you stated, you're not going to change the system. Please remember in foreign mission fields, the trinitarians are killing "Oneness" people. It's a very powerful spirit of deception and you can not join yourself unto that spirit with out it destroying what you have built. What kind of confusing message are you sending to your congregation?

Craigert, you may think I'm very narrow-minded and a "hard liner" but, that's not the case at all, I'm stating this out of genuine concern. Please pray, until you know you've heard from God, even then try the spirits to verify it's God.

:(

In His Name!!!

I have preached at a few trinitarian churches and am preaching at the Good Friday Community Service this Friday, there will be Baptists, Methodists, Catholics and Apostolics. As far as the other is concerned I have allowed one Trinitarian pastor to preach. The key is simply to be upfront with them and with your congregation....... Some perhaps would view this as a compromise..... However I think if we are settled, bold and convinced of the Oneness view you can be secure.....Obviously knowing the minister would be a must! We would have to be sure that he would completely respect the churches doctrinal viewpoint and keep his views to himself

[Minister C]

I agree with the concept of spreading the gospel with trinitarian believers, but not allowing them to speak to your conversation, it's the process I've been used to seeing. By standing on the Apostle's doctrine, I've seen trinitarian minsters baptized and becoming great Apostolic ministers. The method of how we do it should be directed from above. Sometimes you have to be exegetical and other times you have to drive it home, but all in all you just have to let the Lord lead you in what to say, and how to say it. I do believe we should keep an humble and hospitable spirit with us at all times, but not be deceived into comprimising our stance on the Truth.

[Craigert]

I certainly understand yur view and stance. It could be risky. I have a very good friend. He and his wife sing and he preaches - He does a great job and usually it is surface type teaching..... He is more of an encourager as opposed to a teacher or preacher. He is a trinitarian..... I have let him come. Other than that. I agree it may not be the best route. Nor should it become a typical scenario...

[slr213]

While I am not really on board with letting a 3god guy preach at our church– I don’t think I’d be afraid to let him greet our congregation from our pulpit or our platform….

I would want him to know concretely where we disagree and why… but my intention with the Lutheran Pastor I am meeting next week – I am just praying that the love of Christ will minister through me enough to bridge the gap.

If I were to ever get invited to preach at a Trinitarian church – due to my stand – I am thinking that it would only be to explain the oneness? I am praying that it happens someday…

I still, come back to the whole, “love theme” I have been touting lately. We cannot save until we befriend. We "befriend" best by serving… how can I serve the unbeliever? I must love them… and look for a need to fill.

[Craigert]

Bro Ballard - thank you for your concern...Let me tell you what I have seen..... three years ago and please do not attack me on this...I went through a GUT wrenching study and period of time..... Through this I determined the UPCI holiness standards where not a biblical precept that could be demanded of people. To my surprise this caused quite a rift.... I did not seek to change my apostolic breathren nonetheless... I did not like what I saw. Since that time I have yet to find a "organization" that is oneness...Apostolic....without these standards....I know many apostolics who dont necessarily belive in the standards -yet not an organized assembly..... Hence I am a "lone ranger" of sorts..... Have no fear - I have turned down numerous positions based on the fact I would not give up my oneness doctrine..... You are right dear sir many trinitarians have a great disdain for oneness and I will be careful....Thanks Bro

[slr213]

Bro Ballard - thank you for your concern...Let me tell you what I have seen..... three years ago and please do not attack me on this...I went through a GUT wrenching study and period of time..... Through this I determined the UPCI holiness standards where not a biblical precept that could be demanded of people. To my surprise this caused quite a rift.... I did not seek to change my apostolic breathren nonetheless... I did not like what I saw. Since that time I have yet to find a "organization" that is oneness...Apostolic....without these standards....I know many apostolics who dont necessarily belive in the standards -yet not an organized assembly..... Hence I am a "lone ranger" of sorts..... Have no fear - I have turned down numerous positions based on the fact I would not give up my oneness doctrine..... You are right dear sir many trinitarians have a great disdain for oneness and I will be careful....Thanks BroI don't know with whom you were associated - but man, I'd leave the UPC in a heart beat if I felt it was even inferred that I should "Demand" some standard.

That would be clearly out of order.

2nd how can it be a surprise to you when you left a body that you had a disagreement with - in effect showing that you knew better than all of them...

they are sacrificing for something that you no longer feel is necessary.



They love something … you reject something… and you are “surprised” that they didn’t all embrace you for leaving them…/us? (I don’t know you – but, I b 1 of “them”)



I’m not beating down the door of folks that disagree with me… to rehash … or to endure yet another … “here is why I disagree with you”



You left… your free… don’t worry about them… go on live life … be happy… don’t whine now that God has given you a “greater” revelation than the folks that you left…



Pray for em… perhaps, just perhaps… they will come to the same revelation that you have received…

But don’t get disgruntled by their lack of enthusiasm for your taken off from them/us…



Got more … way more… can’t get it all out now…

[BrotherBallard]

craigert,
Let me state, I'm not part of the UPCI, nor is my Church. I understand the feelings that you may have toward the UPC as a whole, but we can not forget the Brethren, that are in the UPC, that do stand for what is right and at the same time are not condemning or judgmental brethren. I have noticed, it's not just the "legalists" that judge, but it's also "liberals" that judge as well, I guess we could call it, "reverse-judgism," (Please contact Webster’s dictionary, I just came up with a new term for next years dictionary...LOL). Neither party is right in their way of condemning those who do not agree with them.
As far as trinitarians go, I would not even go to an Apostolic Church that allowed one to preach or teach from their pulpit, on the other hand I do not see a problem with Apostolics, "Oneness," preachers preaching to trinitarians, they are lost, and they need a preacher, how can he preach unless he is sent? We are to reach the lost, including the trinitarians. Let me ask a question, we do realize that trinitarians are lost, right? Would you put a rank sinner behind your pulpit? An alcoholic, a drug abuser, etc.? They are no more lost than trinitarians, that's why I find it puzzling to put a lost person behind the sacred desk.

craigert, I'm enjoying this dialogue with you, I don't find you offensive!

In His Name!!!

[Craigert]

Glad to hear it Brother. I guess I want my cake and I want ot eat it too! I love the Apostolic church! I was saved there, baptized there, filled with the Holy Ghost there......But Brother, with all that is within me...I just cannot see the standards in GOD's word...... The trinity.. I see a real issue there and agree. How they claim to be monotheistic- yet claim "3 people eternally existant" It is beyond me! I am trying to find my place in this world - I really feel a little foolish at times...I am to apostolic for the pentecostals....too apostolic for the Charismatics.......too "not dress codeish" enough for the apostolics..YIKES!!!!!
I did spend some time in a charismatic church- what a disaster.... no doctrine - no concern for holiness......scarey........ I am enjoying our discussion as Brother...... Fellowship is good

[BrotherBallard]

Craigert,

Yes, I'm glad to see your view of the Truth. I am however, a bit confused on your stance about tritheists teaching or preaching in Apostolic pulpits. I really do not see it, I asked the question in my previous post. Just wondering your thoughts, due to the fact that they are lost, would you have a "rank" sinner teach or preach in your pulpit? If not then why would one give a trinitarian liberty for such a sacred place?

In His Name!!!

[Craigert]

Craigert,

Yes, I'm glad to see your view of the Truth. I am however, a bit confused on your stance about tritheists teaching or preaching in Apostolic pulpits. I really do not see it, I asked the question in my previous post. Just wondering your thoughts, due to the fact that they are lost, would you have a "rank" sinner teach or preach in your pulpit? If not then why would one give a trinitarian liberty for such a sacred place?

In His Name!!!
Bro. this is a tough one - I guess I would have to consider under what premise we are considering them to be lost? Are we talking about the baptism issue or in regard to the tritheism issue.... Give me a little more to go on..... I understand your viewing them as not being saved but would like to know under what premise they are not - and what would change their state of salvation to saved? Thanks BRO

[BrotherBallard]

Craigert,
Either way. Have they been through the waters of speration (Baptism in Jesus' Name)? Have they received the Holy Ghost since they believed? Have both issues been resolved? If not then they are lost.
Does that clear up my question?

In His Name!!!

Bro. this is a tough one - I guess I would have to consider under what premise we are considering them to be lost? Are we talking about the baptism issue or in regard to the tritheism issue.... Give me a little more to go on..... I understand your viewing them as not being saved but would like to know under what premise they are not - and what would change their state of salvation to saved? Thanks BRO

[Craigert]

Bro. this is a tough one - I guess I would have to consider under what premise we are considering them to be lost? Are we talking about the baptism issue or in regard to the tritheism issue.... Give me a little more to go on..... I understand your viewing them as not being saved but would like to know under what premise they are not - and what would change their state of salvation to saved? Thanks BRO

[BrotherBallard]

Craigert,
Ok so I don't repeat myself, let me ask you a question, what is your definition of being saved?

In His Name!!!

Bro. this is a tough one - I guess I would have to consider under what premise we are considering them to be lost? Are we talking about the baptism issue or in regard to the tritheism issue.... Give me a little more to go on..... I understand your viewing them as not being saved but would like to know under what premise they are not - and what would change their state of salvation to saved? Thanks BRO

[Craigert]

Bro.
If you are at risk of repeating yourself- you are not at risk with me - I would really prefer since it is your criteria of salvation that is questioning whether or not a trinitarian should ever be in an apostolic pulpit - we deal with that criterai as opposed to mine. If you are not willing to do that - then we would just have to politly terminate the debate.... I would be more than willing to continue however if you would just take the lead on this one.........GOD BLESS

[BrotherBallard]

Craigert,
It's a simple question, are trinitarians saved or not. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

The pulpit is where God speaks to His people through the Man of God.

In His Name!!!

Bro.
If you are at risk of repeating yourself- you are not at risk with me - I would really prefer since it is your criteria of salvation that is questioning whether or not a trinitarian should ever be in an apostolic pulpit - we deal with that criterai as opposed to mine. If you are not willing to do that - then we would just have to politly terminate the debate.... I would be more than willing to continue however if you would just take the lead on this one.........GOD BLESS

[Craigert]

Brother
I feel as if I am being set up here - So I will answer with caution. I have a hard time saying trinitarians are NOT saved. Do I feel they are in complete truth - of course not! However I would have a hard time condemning all trinitarians to hell. I realize this does not fulfill the ACTS 2:38 formual we are so fond of - it does lead us into a theoligocial dissertation that would be difficult to "hash out" over the web(we could try) however I am not sure I want to take that road. I think you, from previous posts have stated they are not saved. I realize and understand your reasoning...I just am no so quick to condemn them to hell....(not saying that you are) Now I have in a vague way explained my position. I think it is only fair for you to explain yours

[BrotherBallard]

Craigert,

I am not trying to set you up; I just wanted to get a feel for your position. Let me start off by scripture:
John 10:1, 2;
1. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

There is only one way, as Eph. 4:5 states One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism,

May I presume your stance on "some" trinitarians, that actually they only believe in One God, but due to semantics they still state the "trinity." Is that the point of view you are coming from? (I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think that's the angle you're coming from, let me know if this isn't your thinking).
Have the trinitarians you fellowship with and allow behind your pulpit been through the waters of separation (Baptism in Jesus' Name)?

Have they received the Holy Ghost since they believed?

If the above has not been fulfilled in their lives, then they are not saved according to scripture.

Remember you’re not condemning trinitarians to hell, neither you or anyone else can condemn anyone, it’s the Word of God that will judge us all in the end, and that's what we need to stay focused on, the Word of God. We can not 'pet' trinitarians and not get damaged in the process. What kind of mixed message are you sending to your congregation?
Be very thoughtful and in deep prayer about this issue. The road this leads to is not a good one. I've been around a long time, and this road always ends up the same. Please consider what I'm saying in prayer and fasting.

In His Name!!!

Brother
I feel as if I am being set up here - So I will answer with caution. I have a hard time saying trinitarians are NOT saved. Do I feel they are in complete truth - of course not! However I would have a hard time condemning all trinitarians to hell. I realize this does not fulfill the ACTS 2:38 formual we are so fond of - it does lead us into a theoligocial dissertation that would be difficult to "hash out" over the web(we could try) however I am not sure I want to take that road. I think you, from previous posts have stated they are not saved. I realize and understand your reasoning...I just am no so quick to condemn them to hell....(not saying that you are) Now I have in a vague way explained my position. I think it is only fair for you to explain yours

[Craigert]

good points Brother - forgive the accusation. I agree we can not pet trinitarians. Very good point - I do not let anyone who has not been filled with the Holy Ghost by evidence of speaking in tongues behind the pulpit.... Let me also remind you -This has only happened twice(2 times to many your thinking;) ) Nonetheless - when your right- your right. The scripture declares what it declares - Perhaps I have been a little lenient in those instances - It is hypocritical for me to blast you "standard people" (LOL) for a unbalanced scriptural stance and then take liberty in that area myself... This does cause further need for my prayer on the issue...I concede to your wisdom and instruction..... Thanks Bro. Ballard I'll seriously consider your wisdom

[slr213]

To my dear Br’s& Ss’s in the Ministry…

Please pray as I have a meeting tomorrow morn w/a influential Lutheran Minister who has invited me to explain the meaning of the Oneness & how it differs with what ever I is that he believes.



This came about as we recently baptized a member of his church and she is asking for a letter of transfer… being the caring Pastor that he is… he wants to know more about whom he is “releasing” his parishioner to.



I am just praying for a friendship to be forged out despite our differences… so that at some point I may be able to lovingly minister to him.

[pastorb]

Brother Ballard,

let me try to explain this without you turning sideways on me.

Salvation is incompassed in our intellect first by how we see God, and the closer we get to God that view and our mind set is rectified. Now it's the true believer that will make an adjustment in his life in order to comply with the word of God because faith is an action word.

I taught a seminar a few weeks ago on Water baptism a faith-filled response to the Gospel, when we come in contact with God and the true gospel and not that watered down stuff there has to be a response with in our spirit that reaches our for God.

My wife's brother was the quitest boy you could ever meet. then he went away to college N.C.A&T and he was hooked up with a campus ministry that prayed with him to receive the infilling of the Holy ghost but because he wasn't he didn't see the necesity of baptism, He was baptised before he left in the methodist church so why do it again. I opened my bible and I sat down and quitely showed him in the scriptures because the bible don't lie, so he read it and said ok baptise me in Jesus name and the next morning my pastor met us at the church.

I believe he was saved before he ever hit the water because God had already changed his heart and he already changed his nature by the power of the Holy Ghost but the sin debt still had to be removed and because he loved God he didn't reject his word.

Those who reject his word don't love God and thats their response but the ones that do will do right.

And yes, at every opportunity I will preach in a trinitarian church and I will not beat them up with the bible either, but I wil be true to it and show them all the love of Jesus and that is what will draw them. Not 40 scriptures.

Pastor Walters

Yesterday the Lord blessed and we preached the power of the Holy Ghost.

Out of 19 only five of our young people do not have the infilling of the Holy Ghost so I keep preaching it and I keep teaching it in bible study until it gets down in their spirit and they can't help but say yes to the Lord.

[BrotherBallard]

pastorb,
Don't worry about me "turning sideways on you." I will not do that, especially when one writes a post in the same spirit you wrote yours! :)
I too, recieved the Holy Ghost before I was Baptized in the Name of Jesus, but that does not negate the fact of what scripture has stated in the Apostles Doctrine, even those in the "Acts" Church still had to be baptized even though they had already received the Holy Ghost. It is more than just a requirement, but it also affects a spiritual aspect of salvation, we are buried with Christ in death!
Why do you feel that your Bro-in-law was saved before he was baptized? If I may ask, then why did you baptize him if he was already saved?

If I ever appear to be demeaning or "sideways" I apologize. That is certainly not my intent.

Keep the faith!!!

In His Name!!!

P.S. pastorb, let's keep a dialogue between us, in this thread and throughout GNC!

Brother Ballard,

let me try to explain this without you turning sideways on me.

Salvation is incompassed in our intellect first by how we see God, and the closer we get to God that view and our mind set is rectified. Now it's the true believer that will make an adjustment in his life in order to comply with the word of God because faith is an action word.

I taught a seminar a few weeks ago on Water baptism a faith-filled response to the Gospel, when we come in contact with God and the true gospel and not that watered down stuff there has to be a response with in our spirit that reaches our for God.

My wife's brother was the quitest boy you could ever meet. then he went away to college N.C.A&T and he was hooked up with a campus ministry that prayed with him to receive the infilling of the Holy ghost but because he wasn't he didn't see the necesity of baptism, He was baptised before he left in the methodist church so why do it again. I opened my bible and I sat down and quitely showed him in the scriptures because the bible don't lie, so he read it and said ok baptise me in Jesus name and the next morning my pastor met us at the church.

I believe he was saved before he ever hit the water because God had already changed his heart and he already changed his nature by the power of the Holy Ghost but the sin debt still had to be removed and because he loved God he didn't reject his word.

Those who reject his word don't love God and thats their response but the ones that do will do right.

And yes, at every opportunity I will preach in a trinitarian church and I will not beat them up with the bible either, but I wil be true to it and show them all the love of Jesus and that is what will draw them. Not 40 scriptures.

Pastor Walters

Yesterday the Lord blessed and we preached the power of the Holy Ghost.

Out of 19 only five of our young people do not have the infilling of the Holy Ghost so I keep preaching it and I keep teaching it in bible study until it gets down in their spirit and they can't help but say yes to the Lord.

[slr213]

I spent 2 hours with a Lutheran Minister last week - explaining the differences ‘tween - them & us... --- went very well -

this week --- out of the blue --- another unrelated --- inner city church... has invited me to come teach their small Trinitarian congregation... a series of Bible studies… & you know what I am going to start off with???

Well, I don’t - but I’m fairly certain it will not be much about the difference tween oneness & trinity.

If you will seek opportunity – God will not disappoint.


Don’t know what God is up to … all I know is we are in Revival… & man the Fire feels great.

[Riddler1a]

Looks like it's okay for Paul to preach in a temple full of pagan gods, but Heaven forbid we take our message to the Baptists, the Methodists, the Unitarians, the Wiccans, or even worse the Assemblies of God.

[slr213]

Looks like it's okay for Paul to preach in a temple full of pagan gods, but Heaven forbid we take our message to the Baptists, the Methodists, the Unitarians, the Wiccans, or even worse the Assemblies of God.how do you figure that?

[Beth Wills]

No! Because The Trinitarains DON'T won"t to know Truth!
They enjoy having there ears tickled by False Doctrine/Preachers.
If they truly wanted to know God they would come to an Apostolic Church and hear the word of God.
Also they Want to believe church ain't neccasary but the Bible says "How can you hear without a preacher?
Also they want to believe God is 3 And the Bible clearly states God is One.
Also they want to believe John 3:16 is the plan of Salvation and throw Acts 2:38 on the back burner. But this is what Jesus told Peter to do was Acts 2:38.
Also they want to believe OSAS so they can do what they want to and still go to heaven. My cousin the one I asked you to pray for Richard said a homosexual would go to heaven if he went back on God. But the bible tells us they won't.
The don't believe Baptism is neccasary but in mark Jesus said it was.
So No until the Trinitarians want to be saved they will come to truth.

[bdubs85]

My pastor, Pastor Sagil, just went to Africa (Zambia) with the Abernathy's (they're pretty good friends) and they had a Oneness Symposium with 47 Trinitarian pastors besides how many Oneness pastors there were...3097 adults total, plus however many children outside. One of those trinitarian pastors wanted to be affiliated with the UPCI that night, and 6-7 wanted more information, including the Superintendant of the Christian schools in that area. Rev. Sagil will be going back in October or November to preach/teach a Part II to it (The Christology Seminar). I do also know that he was invited to a local parish back in our hometown of Chicago (I think Catholic)...Not to preach, mind you, but just to speak :D.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bdubs85@ameritech.net/album?.tok=phYYHEBBcMCDTYV4&.dir=/f3fa&.src=ph

(Some pics from the Africa conference...The first day was in the school they have built there. The second day was in a hotel meeting room, and the third, Big Sunday, was in the local UPCI church in Lusaka, Zambia. They're going to be building another church as well). It was so cool: the Trinitarian pastors were up on their feet praising God throughout the song service and throughout the Oneness preaching. 20 people recieved the Holy Ghost.

[PastorS]

Brother BrotherBallard and Brother Craigert. Greetings in the wonderful name of Jesus.

I would like to say thank you for your direct and most inportantly your views. I will like to say that we would have to start by defining salvation. If we do not agree on that, we will never have a close understanding regarding the issue of preaching in trinitarians circles and getting trinitarians preach for you.

BrotherBallard you have defined salvation for us(in general oneness people). Now salvation for a trinitarian is observed differently, so. We must understand the difference. I know is a hard task since there are many flavors of trinitarians, some which are closely relate to our believes in holiness and other issues except the diety of Christ or the oneness of God.

1. How are we saved?(Read BrotherBallards definition of biblical salvation).

2. How do trinitarians believe they are saved...
Generally this is were the tire hits the road. Salvation for a trinitarian is defined generally by the Romans way of salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Most circles except for some baptist circles, dont believe in water baptism to be necessary. In the Salvation Army, all you have to do is swear your allegiance to the church and God( I used to be a "soldier" in the Salvation Army).

The harshes issues come with some Baptist. Who actually say that the Holy Ghost we receive is a deamon.

This issue is one that most oneness believers need to understand. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Corinthians 13:5

Can we as believer go to trinitarian churches and preach? Yes, we have to. How would they know unless you/I preach them?

Can they come to preach to our churches? Well, thats a different story. Since technicly trinitarians are NOT saved or according to Scripture they are still dead to sin, how can you invite them to teach the Glorious Bride of Christ!?

I know you may see it differently and while we live in america and your allowed to say what you will, re-vival is only there when people are being saved.

Trinitarian are lost people, and require the same love as a drunker or a drug addict. My people perish for lack of knowledge! I say it with love and respect. Listen very carefully. In John 3, the Lord Jesus, explains to Nicodemous how to be save. Simply is being born again. Meaning of water through the name of Jesus Christ for the remissions of sins, and then through the Holy Ghost with the evidence of Speaking in tongues.

We must be careful not carefree.

There is a group of peole that although believe in the truth once, now, for the lack of doctrinal fortitude have or are falling away. We need to reach ALL THE LOST.

I have had dear friends who once believed and made a difference, fall away in to the believe that trinitarians will be in the rapture. Be very careful! This are very turbulent times.

Having done all things, stand...

[jhlent]

My pastor, Pastor Sagil,

I do also know that he was invited to a local parish back in our hometown of Chicago (I think Catholic)...Not to preach, mind you, but just to speak :D.
PLEASE tell your Pastor this........

That he is going there because it is still the old Catholic in him, that is reason he is going there..........

And tell him it is from John H. Lent.

[bdubs85]

You guys are both ABI grads?

[Deonna]

My pastor, Pastor Sagil, just went to Africa (Zambia) with the Abernathy's (they're pretty good friends)........

Bro Abernathy's parents were my pastor. He was just here recently and I couldn't believe how much he looked like his dad.

I know this is :nt: but they made such an impact on my life that every time I hear their name, my ears perk up. I really miss them.

[PastorS]

hehe sorry whats an ABI grad?

[pastorken]

hehe sorry whats an ABI grad?
:laugh: Its the opposite of an IBC grad!!

[Riddler1a]

PLEASE tell your Pastor this........

That he is going there because it is still the old Catholic in him, that is reason he is going there..........

And tell him it is from John H. Lent.
The darker the room the brighter the light.

Maybe the Brother can say in Jesus name before he takes the sacraments.

[PastorS]

:laugh: Its the opposite of an IBC grad!!

I must be slow this morning. Whats an IBC grad? :yeah:

[bdubs85]

The darker the room the brighter the light.

Maybe the Brother can say in Jesus name before he takes the sacraments.Oh, my Pastor is shining like a 2 million candlepower (well, maybe more :)) spotlight in this community. We moved into this one beautiful building 1 block from the house from where he grew up and we have ideas: one of which is to buy the Catholic high school he went to and turn it into a school.

Anyways, gotta go now...

[PastorS]

Oh, my Pastor is shining like a 2 million candlepower (well, maybe more :)) spotlight in this community. We moved into this one beautiful building 1 block from the house from where he grew up and we have ideas: one of which is to buy the Catholic high school he went to and turn it into a school.

Anyways, gotta go now...

Catholic is not the same as your normal christian if I may intergect here. I do not doudt that God can send His people to any soil even if that soil is corrupted and filled with devils. However, there must be caution. You have to make sure God is sending you, not the need to be recognize as the light.

As far as being the spotlight of my comunity, It is necesary that I may decrese that My Lord Jesus Christ may increase.

Success should not be determined by how community oriented you are but by how obidient you are to the Lord. In the case of Jonah, if Niniveh would have not converted, would Jonah at the end still successful?




:ninja: I do believe that there is a time when going beon the gates of hell is required, but is not always necesary. As for me going to a catholic church, it would be hard, with all the idols there. I have a tendency of fixing things when they are broaken. I would be having deliverance service all night getting rid of those idols and their accompaying demons/devils. :ninja:

[bdubs85]

Catholic is not the same as your normal christian if I may intergect here. I do not doudt that God can send His people to any soil even if that soil is corrupted and filled with devils. However, there must be caution. You have to make sure God is sending you, not the need to be recognize as the light.

As far as being the spotlight of my comunity, It is necesary that I may decrese that My Lord Jesus Christ may increase.

Success should not be determined by how community oriented you are but by how obidient you are to the Lord. In the case of Jonah, if Niniveh would have not converted, would Jonah at the end still successful?



:ninja: I do believe that there is a time when going beon the gates of hell is required, but is not always necesary. As for me going to a catholic church, it would be hard, with all the idols there. I have a tendency of fixing things when they are broaken. I would be having deliverance service all night getting rid of those idols and their accompaying demons/devils. :ninja:Please don't take me the wrong way in my usage of the word "spotlight". I certainly don't believe in self-glorification substituting his manifestation but I do believe that we need to be the light of the world, a city that is set on a hill that cannot be hid. Matt 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Now, it seems that just about every time my pastor goes down to city hall, there is somebody there that asks him to pray for them.

And about that going to the Catholic church, it was just more of an opening/prayer...
If he WERE asked to preach, well, he sure would let fly... :p

[BrotherBallard]

PastorS,
Good post! I concur with your below statements, they basically sum up what I was stating throughout this thread!

In His Name!!!


Brother BrotherBallard and Brother Craigert. Greetings in the wonderful name of Jesus.

I would like to say thank you for your direct and most inportantly your views. I will like to say that we would have to start by defining salvation. If we do not agree on that, we will never have a close understanding regarding the issue of preaching in trinitarians circles and getting trinitarians preach for you.

BrotherBallard you have defined salvation for us(in general oneness people). Now salvation for a trinitarian is observed differently, so. We must understand the difference. I know is a hard task since there are many flavors of trinitarians, some which are closely relate to our believes in holiness and other issues except the diety of Christ or the oneness of God.

1. How are we saved?(Read BrotherBallards definition of biblical salvation).

2. How do trinitarians believe they are saved...
Generally this is were the tire hits the road. Salvation for a trinitarian is defined generally by the Romans way of salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Most circles except for some baptist circles, dont believe in water baptism to be necessary. In the Salvation Army, all you have to do is swear your allegiance to the church and God( I used to be a "soldier" in the Salvation Army).

The harshes issues come with some Baptist. Who actually say that the Holy Ghost we receive is a deamon.

This issue is one that most oneness believers need to understand. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Corinthians 13:5

Can we as believer go to trinitarian churches and preach? Yes, we have to. How would they know unless you/I preach them?

Can they come to preach to our churches? Well, thats a different story. Since technicly trinitarians are NOT saved or according to Scripture they are still dead to sin, how can you invite them to teach the Glorious Bride of Christ!?

I know you may see it differently and while we live in america and your allowed to say what you will, re-vival is only there when people are being saved.

Trinitarian are lost people, and require the same love as a drunker or a drug addict. My people perish for lack of knowledge! I say it with love and respect. Listen very carefully. In John 3, the Lord Jesus, explains to Nicodemous how to be save. Simply is being born again. Meaning of water through the name of Jesus Christ for the remissions of sins, and then through the Holy Ghost with the evidence of Speaking in tongues.

We must be careful not carefree.

There is a group of peole that although believe in the truth once, now, for the lack of doctrinal fortitude have or are falling away. We need to reach ALL THE LOST.

I have had dear friends who once believed and made a difference, fall away in to the believe that trinitarians will be in the rapture. Be very careful! This are very turbulent times.

Having done all things, stand...

[nosey 1]

there were about 250 relatives there it was a memorial service as she was creamated

during the service one of her grand daughters came to the front and received the Holy Ghost.

[Larry Gastineau]

If I'm not mistaken, We (our forefathers came OUT OF TRINITY movements) came out and seperated ourselves and began ONENESS organizations, seperate from Trinitarian organizations. Therefore ONE MUST ACCEPT the ONENESS DOCTRINE to even be BORN AGAIN according to ACTS 2:38. You can not have one with the other. The GODHEAD & ACTS 2:38 go hand in hand like man and wife.
Also, the only people qualified to extend the RIGHT HAND OF FELLOWSHIP are those who have been BORN OF THE WATER AND THE SPIRIT.
I could talk/write about THE ONENESS MESSAGE FOR HOURS. Ive done it before. Started preaching around 9;00 am and didnt quit until 4 or 5 PM

[jhlent]

The darker the room the brighter the light.

Maybe the Brother can say in Jesus name before he takes the sacraments.Did you tell that High Priest - that "I" said Hi yet...??

[bdubs85]

Heh, yeah I did.

[BrotherBallard]

Larry Gastineau,

Welcome to GNC!!!

I noticed you've been here for a while, and I'm glad to see you post! The Oneness of God is so deep, it's the deepest subject in the Bible! I always like to hear or read what others have to say about the Oneness of God!!!

Keep the Faith!!!

In His Name!!!

[survivor4christ]

I know I am not a minister, but the suject raised interest in me that I am going to a 'trinitarian' church.

I am an Apostolic, been baptized in Jesus' name and gloriously filled with His Spirit, over and over again. But God astounded me when calling me out of an Apostolic church and assigning me to the church where I am currently.

Now I know this sounds amazing, and I have to be honest and tell you that I did not think it was God at first. "Are you serious, Lord? I love this truth more than life itself. And I won't renounce it, or embrace another doctrine, not after having this thing planted in me so powerfully..."

But after seeking God and much prayer and fasting, I knew God was ordering my next step actually back to this church. The pastor is anointed, and I know he has a burden for souls. He grew up Apostolic but somewhere down the line he left it. And he doesn't teach it like he learned. I pray for him and the leadership here, b/c God is wanting to do some powerful things here, and in order to lead the people into the next dimension in God, he is going to have to embrace some of those things he laid down as a teenager. He is going to have to teach it the way he knows deep down inside it is supposed to be taught.

And the people are hungry; people are being filled with the Holy Ghost that used to take the things of God for granted. I am still praying about many things here; and I am treading carefully. I know I am here to help them, but I am seeking God what is the best way to do that. Recently during a bible study I took a stand for the oneness of God and the necessity for baptism, both natural and spiritual. And many disagreed with me, mostly in leadership. As a sign of respect, I pursued it no further. And just prayed. And am praying.

I understand of what Bro. Ballard speaks of.. I didn't practice wisdom in the past and it almost cost me my life. I don't intend on that happening again!

So I need prayer from you all as I endeavor to glorify God and reach out for the lost souls in the 'church.' There are many! It is a sad, sad thing. B/c many are sincere and love God. But they have been indoctrinated, lied to, manipulated and crissed-crossed so many times, they truly do not know what to believe and accept anything that comes their way. Does not the Word of God says that, "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled...."?

God, fill with the Holy Ghost!!!!!! Open eyes to this truth. Draw them by your Spirit! We bind the hand of the enemy who wants to blind those who seek You, and loosed revelation power upon each and every last one of ourselves!



Love,
Sis. Wenona

[PastorS]

survivor4christ,

Dont take this as being judgemental, please.

My heart goes out to you. In case I had not spoken that here, I felt almost the same way with regards to bishop Jakes. I used to belong to his ministerial organization. You can email me for further information on that.

I will tell you, that what your doing is highly dangerous. I am not saying that God did not send you for a "time" but your life is in danger and the life of your children.

Now I know this sounds amazing, and I have to be honest and tell you that I did not think it was God at first. "Are you serious, Lord? I love this truth more than life itself. And I won't renounce it, or embrace another doctrine, not after having this thing planted in me so powerfully..." You may not but your children will be affected. There is soo much your children will be able to bear. Is one thing to do this on your own, but if your children are acconpanying your placing them in danger.


And the people are hungry; people are being filled with the Holy Ghost that used to take the things of God for granted. I am still praying about many things here; and I am treading carefully. I know I am here to help them, but I am seeking God what is the best way to do that. Recently during a bible study I took a stand for the oneness of God and the necessity for baptism, both natural and spiritual. And many disagreed with me, mostly in leadership. As a sign of respect, I pursued it no further. And just prayed. And am praying. People are hungry anywhere in the world. You said "As a sign of respect" If God sent you there to teach the truth, then why are you being quiet?

In all fairness your pastor is in a backsliden stage. Receiving the Holy Ghost is done by promise so is when there are healings and such. They are all done by promise.

Those things are there for the purpose of Gods Name having all authotity.

It seems to me your pastor is sincerely wrong. I will tell you that hell will be filled with people with good intentions. Do not be fooled, God can not be mocked.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Gal 6:7 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Your pastor is incapable to give GODS GOOD FRUIT since he is no longer in the truth.

If he does not heed to your counsel once, you are no longer required there. Once they had the opportunity to hear the doctrine and rejected you are under no requirement of the Lord to remain there.

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

You and your children are getting used to that church, your children will get to the point of not understanding the differences between them and us.

I dont doubt that God sent you there originally, but when they made a fool out of you by not listening to you, you are not required to be there period.

[PastorS]

survivor4christ,

Your pastor is currently deceiving those people and leading them in the wrong way. The fact that he WAS in the truth and he is no longer in the truth makes him an enemy of Christ.

2 Cor. 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Gal 1: 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Your pastor is currently preaching the other Gospel.

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Just because he was baptized in Jesus name, and even has the HolyGhost does not mean that God is working through him or even approving of him.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

I wish he was a trinitarian, then atleast there is a posibility to reach him.

This is a dangerous situation, because he appears to be doing Gods work. I said appears because,

Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please leave and prayfully find an apostolic church.

[jhlent]

I know I am not a minister, but the suject raised interest in me that I am going to a 'trinitarian' church.

I am an Apostolic, been baptized in Jesus' name and gloriously filled with His Spirit, over and over again. But God astounded me when calling me out of an Apostolic church and assigning me to the church where I am currently.

Now I know this sounds amazing, and I have to be honest and tell you that I did not think it was God at first. "Are you serious, Lord? I love this truth more than life itself. And I won't renounce it, or embrace another doctrine, not after having this thing planted in me so powerfully..."

But after seeking God and much prayer and fasting, I knew God was ordering my next step actually back to this church. The pastor is anointed, and I know he has a burden for souls. He grew up Apostolic but somewhere down the line he left it. And he doesn't teach it like he learned. I pray for him and the leadership here, b/c God is wanting to do some powerful things here, and in order to lead the people into the next dimension in God, he is going to have to embrace some of those things he laid down as a teenager. He is going to have to teach it the way he knows deep down inside it is supposed to be taught.

And the people are hungry; people are being filled with the Holy Ghost that used to take the things of God for granted. I am still praying about many things here; and I am treading carefully. I know I am here to help them, but I am seeking God what is the best way to do that. Recently during a bible study I took a stand for the oneness of God and the necessity for baptism, both natural and spiritual. And many disagreed with me, mostly in leadership. As a sign of respect, I pursued it no further. And just prayed. And am praying.

I understand of what Bro. Ballard speaks of.. I didn't practice wisdom in the past and it almost cost me my life. I don't intend on that happening again!

So I need prayer from you all as I endeavor to glorify God and reach out for the lost souls in the 'church.' There are many! It is a sad, sad thing. B/c many are sincere and love God. But they have been indoctrinated, lied to, manipulated and crissed-crossed so many times, they truly do not know what to believe and accept anything that comes their way. Does not the Word of God says that, "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled...."?

God, fill with the Holy Ghost!!!!!! Open eyes to this truth. Draw them by your Spirit! We bind the hand of the enemy who wants to blind those who seek You, and loosed revelation power upon each and every last one of ourselves!

Love,
Sis. Wenona Praise the Lord Sis…….

#1 – Ministering…….
as someone has already said – don’t be fooled……
You said… “I know I am not a minister” - - PLEASE don’t confuse the two words – Minister & Ministering…..
You may not be called into the Ministry – BUT – Trust Me you are called to Minister….. And You have done it - so KEEP doing it.
Ministering takes place in so many different ways, Not just by us Pulpit thumpers…..
I have been introduced to a very different style of Ministering by my Dearest Friend and Pastor over the last few years. And it is through a spoken kind word, or gesture, meeting an emotional need…….. Have you ever done anything like that….




Please remember that when You are there that Greater that is with in YOU is GREATER than what is in them…..
Use caution in dealing with them, you were right not to argue with them over the doctrine, but not for the reasons you thought. Arguing and debating them would only have diminished your testimony in the eyes of the others, for even Paul lost Athens to such motives….. You are NOT under their Authority there, but neither are you the authority there. Do NOT Place your self under a rebellious authority….




You keep standing for Truth Lady….. If the Lord has brought You there – it is for a purpose of HIS intending…. Not ours, or by our directions…. So if You were sent there it is for purposes of Ministering…… Then Minister…. Not by out spoken acts of boisterous confrontations but in the Sweet Spirit that the Lord has instilled in you. YOU smile and show your self friendly, You be the example that the Lord has intended you to be. You show what a TRUE Christian is all about…..




#2 – Minister….
Well now I feel that this side need to also have a fare voice……
Not that others have now attempted to interject their opinions on you…!.!
So Sis here goes…………………………………
I will not argue the point over weather or not the Lord has or hasn’t sent you there – BUT – here is my personal recommendation for you.
(1) You NEED to have some accountability to Godly authority…..
Find your self at least 3 people Filled with the Holy Ghost and living according to His way…..
Become accountable to them, do NOT think that you will be able to do this alone…..
(2) At least 1 of these needs to be a Minister
(3) At least one of these needs to be a Woman – You will need another woman to speak from the heart to…
(4) Let each know about the others……


If you knew when the Lord told you to go there – You will also need to keep your Heart and ears open to the same voice telling you when it is time to leave…. Don’t over stay your welcome - And Accountability will help you stay alert.




And so I my Friend have spoken to you from first the Ministering side of me, and then from the Minister side of me….. and lastly now from the Friend, which is hard to ever separate from the first two…..
Sis. Wenona PLEASE be careful, we all here Love you and don’t desire to see anything happen to you…..


Until then,
Your Friend

[jhlent]

Heh, yeah I did.You guys ever get your web site up and going again - - ....??

If so what is it's link.

[bdubs85]

You guys ever get your web site up and going again - - ....??

If so what is it's link.

You know what, not yet...I was going to design it and have it hosted b/c the last guy who designed/had it hosted had a few problems and kinda back/side slid into some other church. When it goes up, I'll try to remember to send a link to ya...

[jhlent]

[/color][/size]

You know what, not yet...I was going to design it and have it hosted b/c the last guy who designed/had it hosted had a few problems and kinda back/side slid into some other church. When it goes up, I'll try to remember to send a link to ya...Who are you going to host it with....??

I know a great Apostolic Hosting Site.......

[bdubs85]

Who are you going to host it with....??

I know a great Apostolic Hosting Site.......I know I saw somewhere on this site that Bro. Atkinson does free hosting for Apostolic ministers...It looked pretty good when I saw it...

But then again, we may just host it ourselves. Not too sure yet. It's not really a priority ATM.

ps...maybe we should switch over to PM's and not hijack the thread :p

[nosey 1]

You know I myself came out of the trinity pentecostal movement & I thought I had the goods. you Know what that lying spirit that I picked up there wasn't the Holy Ghost. It took my pastor 6 to 8 months to preach that spirit out of me and man when I received the Holy Ghost it was with power and demonstration. Since that time I have been fortunate to see many trinitarian pentecostals receive the REAL Holy Ghost

[jesusfreak11_20]

We have a Trinitarian men who is the husband of one of our members and he exhorts in our church but he neve teaches or preaches on the trinity! He is respectiful of our beliefs

[Riddler]

You know I myself came out of the trinity pentecostal movement & I thought I had the goods. you Know what that lying spirit that I picked up there wasn't the Holy Ghost. It took my pastor 6 to 8 months to preach that spirit out of me and man when I received the Holy Ghost it was with power and demonstration. Since that time I have been fortunate to see many trinitarian pentecostals receive the REAL Holy Ghost

So there is a fake Holy Ghost... Here we go again... lol Why can't a person get the REAL HOLY GHOST in a trinitarian church... I gotta see the answer to that... Especially since I prayed with 3 people in a trinitarian church who got the HOLY GHOST with the EVIDENCE of SPEAKING IN TONGUES... There Holy Ghost fake? Or was it real because I was there?

[gracetograce]

I Would Preach At Any Church Any Where If The Opportunity Presented Itself. My Husband Preached At A Baptist Church A Few Years Ago And The Lord Blessed, His Brother Who He Had Witnessed To For Years Finally Left There And Joined A Apostolic Church, He Got Baptised In Jesus Name And Filled With The Holy Ghost.
I Think It Would Be A Good Opportunity To Convert People.

[christian]

I got the real HG myself under people who taught it was a different experience apart from being borned-again,however that HG I received lead me into the PAJC view.

[aposreform]

The amazing thing about this issue, is that I have known trinitarian preachers that have tried to 'weetle' there way into the pulpit of small, stuggling Oneness churches. I saw one in a small town in Arizona, that said 'sure, we will let you preach, but first let me into your pulpit for one hour'. The trinitarians always declined.

[Inspired-Eyes]

My father in law preached in a catholic church in Louisiana a few times, and my sister in law sang there too.......She sang the song, I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus christ........it was a good time we had.

[Polaris]

I have preached several times in a trinitarian church, but my purpose was never to agree with false doctrine but to reach for the people.

[apsurf]

I just got to thinking of a former pastor of mine.
he was raised in a jewish synoguage, Trained in a Luthern Seminary, member of a luthern church, and dating a oneness lady (all of this was in his younger days of course)....After he started visiting the oneness church his future wife went to, the pastor went out of town for a time and turned the service over to this luthern seminary trained preacher. Funny thing was half the church walked out of the service, but later that same half and the other half asked the luthern guy to be their pastor (years later). That former pastor of mine may have left the ministry now, but still deserves so much respect in my mind. He preached Acts 2:38 that first night and didn't realize it till years later! :D

But as for me, yes I have ministered in baptist churches, probably more times than oneness churches. And was even blessed to fufill the role of an onoffical assistant to a methodist pastor. yep, I may catch a lot of flak over that, but I am glad to have done so.

[zealwriter]

Good for you Apsurf. I mean really, that is great. I've ministered in several baptist churches and even was offered an assistant pastoring position at one. Infiltration is a wonderful thing don't you think?

[RandyWayne]

<---whistling the Hogans Heroes theme