The Integration of Psychology with Scripture

[Hadassah]

This is a topic which has also given rise to much debate. I would love to hear some thoughts on using counselors in churches who have been educated in secular institutions and in some cases licensed by states or provinces. Also, there seems to be an alarming increase in the use of psychological materials which in many ways contradict the scriptures by teaching us to rely on self rather than total dependence upon the Word and the Spirit of God. This would include things like Personality or Temperament Theories, as well as many of the church growth and church leadership methods which have become so popular today.

[Deonna]

Umm, could you please clarify how you think Personality or Temperament Theories teach us to rely on self rather than God???

[Hadassah]

The problem with the integration of personality or temperament theories with scripture is that somehow these secular self-improvement techniques are confused with sanctification-a work of the Holy Ghost. If the means of obtaining a “transformed temperament” relies on anything other than the inner working of the Holy Ghost who leads us and guides us into all truth-then we are exchanging our dependency and trust in God for something else. In this case-an ancient system devised for understanding human nature and thereby improving the human condition. A system that gives the illusion of exceptional insight into oneself and others- thus encouraging a self-focus using humanly devised methods.

The Bible knows nothing of personality-typing to understand behavior. Whatever the label Christians will give to the latest fad in New Age personality systems, its origins can be traced to ancient pagan philosophy or occult religions, not the Bible. Even when combined with Biblical teachings, the four temperaments do not become transformed, as some writers promise. They are forever being tempered within the confines of determinism.

Having been a student of psychology in University before I was saved-I recognized immediately the incompatibility of any of its theories with the Word of God. Anything we were meant to understand oabout ourselves or others can be found within the pages of this awesome Book!

[ddc101]

Amen Sister Hadassah I agree.In fact there is a brother Jim who posts here that is into biblical counsel as well as I.I hate psychology.It is a religon.I know of several churches who are using the psychology personality testing to try to teach things in the church.They get the materials via Tim Lahaye etc.
What it can do is label.Jesus is very well able to equip anybody to do anything.He does not need them to be personally gifted in any area.Think of Moses and Aaron.Jesus is able to make up for our weaknesses.lv sis.c

[Hadassah]

All I know is that the Word of God coupled with the indwelling power of the Holy Ghost TOTALLY transformed my life!!!! I could easily have spent years on a psychologist's couch looking for answers and healing...BUT GOD!!!! I find it so difficult to understand why Spirit-filled believers must debate over the sufficiency of Scripture. Is anything too hard for God? I think not!! He's awesome- and so able to do exceeding, abundantly ABOVE all that we can ask or even think!!

Amen Sister Hadassah I agree.In fact there is a brother Jim who posts here that is into biblical counsel as well as I.I hate psychology.It is a religon.I know of several churches who are using the psychology personality testing to try to teach things in the church.They get the materials via Tim Lahaye etc.
What it can do is label.Jesus is very well able to equip anybody to do anything.He does not need them to be personally gifted in any area.Think of Moses and Aaron.Jesus is able to make up for our weaknesses.lv sis.c

[ddc101]

Amens sister Bro.J Ensey has a book called The Cross or the Couch.Also Sister Linda Doty and he formed a group who teaches biblical counseling.She was also a psychologist before coming to Jesus.
www.awpministries.org is her site.They also have info.on biblical counseling to educate the Body of Christ.lv sis.c

[Hadassah]

I completed Bro. Ensey's course two years ago, and know Sis. Doty. She has been a great inspiration and source of encouragement! Her books are wonderful!! As a matter of fact, I just taught the "Counseling from Scripture" course at our Bible School here last semester. It was so exciting to see the lights come on for many of the students, and best of all for God to be magnified as the only One who can genuinely bring change to the so called "hard situations" that the psychology industry claims as their territory! God is SO good!!

[jdcord]

The problem with the integration of personality or temperament theories with scripture is that somehow these secular self-improvement techniques are confused with sanctification-a work of the Holy Ghost. If the means of obtaining a “transformed temperament” relies on anything other than the inner working of the Holy Ghost who leads us and guides us into all truth-then we are exchanging our dependency and trust in God for something else. In this case-an ancient system devised for understanding human nature and thereby improving the human condition. A system that gives the illusion of exceptional insight into oneself and others- thus encouraging a self-focus using humanly devised methods.

The Bible knows nothing of personality-typing to understand behavior. Whatever the label Christians will give to the latest fad in New Age personality systems, its origins can be traced to ancient pagan philosophy or occult religions, not the Bible. Even when combined with Biblical teachings, the four temperaments do not become transformed, as some writers promise. They are forever being tempered within the confines of determinism.

Having been a student of psychology in University before I was saved-I recognized immediately the incompatibility of any of its theories with the Word of God. Anything we were meant to understand oabout ourselves or others can be found within the pages of this awesome Book!

Ummmm, I've never heard of the four temperments being used to teach that God is going to transform them, or change them in you, or anything like that. The only way I've ever heard them used is to understand better how we tick, so to speak, and why. Our temperment is what it is, regardless. My daughter has ALWAYS, from birth, been the show stealing Sanguine, with a healthy dose of the controlling Choleric. If she has always been that way, it is because God Himself gave her those temperments as her primary ones. Why on earth would anyone pray for God to change what He Himself deliberately set in place? Sounds like a very fruitless prayer to me (not to mention a very frustrating endeavour).

Now then, if we want to pray for God to help us with the NEGATIVE aspects of those temperments, I can certainly see how God would be willing to get rid of those.

[Felicity]

I'm with Jd on this.

We all have our own individual personality/temperament makeup. We need to submit and yield all of who we are as individuals to the Lord for Him to mold and shape as as He desires. The Holy Ghost can temper and change the negative sides of our personalities.

But we're all born with certain bents.

I'm a pretty much even blend of 3 of the more commonly known 4 personalities. Sanguine, Phlegmatic, Choleric and Melancholy.

In other words........pretty much perfect. :angel:

Hehehe. ;)

[Hadassah]

I guess my question would be, where in Scripture did God ever assign to us labels such as sanguine or choleric etc? Temperament theory constitutes an inadvertent way for people to practice an astrological kind of psychic and esoteric determinism without casting a horoscope -and without even realizing that they are practicing the essence of astrology. Neither astrology nor the four temperaments theory is scientific. Both are deceptive and invalid. Both reinterpret Biblical doctrine. Astrology is anathema to the Christian. And since the four temperaments are an intrinsic component of astrology, it only makes sense-at least to my way of thinking-that the four temperaments should be avoided as well.


My next question is why do we as apostolic Christians feel we have to define ourselves using these thories? Isn't our entire Christian walk about being transformed from glory to glory into HIS image? Something that would of necessity involve MUCH change. I can certainly say that my temperament at birth was RADICALLY changed by my new birth and is still under construction. I thought being born again meant freedom from our sinful human nature? I can't see how freedom comes from figuring out one's temperament according to the relics of the four temperaments and astrology. Jesus already gave us the way to freedom, and that is through believing the Word of God and living by that Truth (John 8:31-32). To employ psychological theories as methods of understanding and change is a classic example of being “conformed to the systems that govern this world.” Something Paul warned us about in Romans 12:1. He went on to say that Christians are transformed “through the renewing of the mind” No psychological theory can compare with the promise found in the supernatural, transforming power of the Holy Ghost.

(2Co 5:17) So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

(Gal 6:15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Today the works added to the Cross of Christ are not circumcision. Instead of adding circumcision to faith in Christ, we are adding the works of self-analysis and self-improvement through psychological systems, such as the four temperaments.

Why do we feel a need to help God do what only He is able to accomplish in our lives and in the lives of other people-lost or saved? That is the part I just cannot grasp. To my mind, the four temperaments are the beggarly elements of the world and serve absolutely NO purpose in the life of a blood bought, Holy Ghost filled Christian.

Ummmm, I've never heard of the four temperments being used to teach that God is going to transform them, or change them in you, or anything like that. The only way I've ever heard them used is to understand better how we tick, so to speak, and why. Our temperment is what it is, regardless. My daughter has ALWAYS, from birth, been the show stealing Sanguine, with a healthy dose of the controlling Choleric. If she has always been that way, it is because God Himself gave her those temperments as her primary ones. Why on earth would anyone pray for God to change what He Himself deliberately set in place? Sounds like a very fruitless prayer to me (not to mention a very frustrating endeavour).

Now then, if we want to pray for God to help us with the NEGATIVE aspects of those temperments, I can certainly see how God would be willing to get rid of those.

[jdcord]

Ummmm, ok. How about posting something that factually relates the four temperments as being part of astrology?

[Dave]

From my book The Sons of Oil.....

The fulness of the power to heal is found in Jesus Christ alone. Yet many today are looking elsewhere for inward healing. The basis of most of these competitors of Christ is psychological theory. A theory is an underlying principle believed or assumed to be true which forms a basis for action. Most psychotherapists operate according to a set of theories which have been assembled over the past 100 years. These theories have a superficial appearance of legitimacy, but when examined closely, it is easy to see that they are all flawed and absolutely inadequate. In other words, they fail to explain why people think and act the way they do and what needs to be done about it.

Only God knows why people do what they do. Only He sees the heart perfectly. And only He has the power to heal it. Psychological theories are actually nothing more than human guessing. This is easily established by the fact that there is such a vast array of psychological theories, most of which contradict one another. This being the case, I believe we have a legitimate basis for questioning, which, if any, are correct to any degree?

Christians should understand that psychology is philosophy. It is therefore one of the things the Bible says will “cheat” us. In addition, psychology is “empty deceit,” because it promises what it cannot deliver, and a “tradition of men” (rather than a revelation of God), because it is accepted by millions without evaluation. Moreover, it is founded on the “basic principles of the world,” not the principles of God’s Word. Christians will never find completeness in a psychotherapist’s office; we are complete only in Jesus Christ.

Many of the competitors of the biblical approach to inner healing are cleverly disguised in Christian terminology. Always remember that healing comes by the touch of Jesus Christ, not by any kind of healing technique. The issue in ministering to wounded people is purely one of how a person comes into contact with Jesus. It is not what a person does, or has done to him, that brings inward healing; it is whether he exposes his wounds to the Healer.

There is no shortage of counterfeit approaches to inner healing circulating today in the form of books, preachers, and seminars. I felt it necessary to identify several of the most prominent approaches so that the reader can avoid them. Each one is founded in psychological theories that contradict the truth of the Bible. The approach I describe in this book is not related in any way to any of the following. Please avoid these approaches.

1. The Forgive Yourself Approach: Matthew 6:14 says, “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.” Not one verse in the Word of God instructs us to forgive ourselves. For forgiveness to take place, there must be an actual trespass. We trespass against God and other people, and others trespass against us, but we do not trespass against ourselves. This means that we need God’s forgiveness and the forgiveness of others, and we need to forgive those who trespass against us, but we do not need to forgive ourselves. Forgiveness is a relational dynamic and can only take place within the context of relationship. We not only do not have the authority to forgive ourselves, but there is no basis for us forgiving ourselves. In truth, the Forgive Yourself Approach is a substitute for repentance, forgiving other people, and God removing condemnation.

2.The Forgive God Approach: Psalms 18:30 says, “As for God, His way is perfect.” God has never trespassed against anyone, even though many in their carnal thinking believe He has. The idea that any man needs to forgive God is a capitulation to carnal thinking and an insult to the God of all grace, for it implies that God needs our forgiveness. This approach is actually a substitute for repentance. It makes man the victim of God and removes the need to be honest about what is really wrong. It is rationalizing wrong behavior by blaming God.

3. The Self-love Approach: Matthew 16:24 says, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.” There is no place in the Word of God where anyone is encouraged to love himself. Self love is assumed in the Scriptures as the natural condition of fallen man. This is why the Bible tells us, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:39). In other words, we are to love others in the same way we are already loving ourselves. Furthermore, the Bible warns that in the last days, men will be “lovers of themselves” (2 Timothy 3:2). This passage is speaking in a disparaging way of the attitudes that will be prevalent among believers in the last days. It is certainly not encouraging us to love ourselves. The Self-love Approach is a justification for continuing in self-centered, self-indulgent behavior and remaining unconcerned about the needs of those around us. It is a substitute for facing up to one’s own selfishness and submitting to the cross.

4.The Self-Esteem Approach: Isaiah 40:17 states that the value of man is “less than nothing and worthless.” Yet, God says, “If you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure” (Exodus 19:5). Human value only exists within the context of relationship with God and obedience to His will. The Self-Esteem Approach to healing attempts to produce spiritual health by persuading us we have great, if not eternal, value. Paul admonished believers to “in lowliness of mind...esteem others better than himself” (Philippians 2:3). The Self-Esteem Approach is based on the false philosophical idea that the human soul is divine and therefore inherently immortal and valuable. The fruit of this approach is pride and selfishness, not lowliness of mind.

5. The Temperaments Approach: Romans 12:2 says, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Throughout the New Testament, we are continually admonished that we do not have to remain the way we are. The Temperaments Approach is a “deterministic philosophy” that enables people to justify and rationalize their un-Christian attitudes and behaviors. By categorizing people according to “the four temperaments,” it provides people with the classic “God made me this way” excuse. Statements such as “I’m bossy because I’m choleric,” or “I’m withdrawn because I’m melancholy” are nothing but rationalizations for poor behavior. The truth is, everyone of us can change into the likeness of Jesus by the power of the Word and Spirit of God.

6. The Positive Thinking Approach: James 2:20 says, “But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?” In the Bible faith is action springing from a faith-filled heart. The Positive Thinking Approach promotes a false intellectual faith. It is the “mind over matter”approach that deifies the human will and promises that we can think our way into healing. The roots of this approach are in ancient Gnosticism and it finds its modern expression in the Christian Science movement. According to the Bible, healing and growth come to us by the grace of God as we act in faith, the heart, mind, and body working together to appropriate the promises of God.

To be continued....

[Dave]

7. The Visualization Approach: Hebrews 12:2 says that we should be “looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.” It does not say that we should be looking into our minds to create our own reality by means of imaging. The Visualization Approach attributes God-like creative power to the human mind and proposes that rather than learn to live with reality, we can simply create a new reality. The following quote sums up the anti-Christian bias of this approach: “Above all visualize what will bring you joy. Not what another wants you to do, or what you think you should want” (Arizona Networking News, Spring 1989, p.15). Rather than looking into our minds for healing, Christians are to look by faith unto Jesus Christ, the only true Healer.

8. The “Heal the Inner Child” Approach: 1 Corinthians 13:11 says, “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.”Rather than healing a supposed “inner child” living within us, what the Bible says is that we need to grow out of our immature attitudes and behaviors and become Christ-like in every area of our lives. Ephesians 4:15 says that we should “grow up in all things into Him who is the head.” The “Heal the Inner Child” Approach is nothing but an excuse for remaining immature. It promotes looking within rather than looking toward God.

9. The Victimization Approach: 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, “No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man.” While no one could say that all human beings suffer equally, it is nevertheless true that all suffer. All have sinned and all have been sinned against. The problems we face are more the result of how we deal with our suffering. We cannot control what happens to us, but we can control what happens in us. The Victimization Approach is the glorification of victimization. It is the classic “blaming someone else” excuse for poor attitudes and behaviors. This is not to suggest that there are not plenty of true victims around. But this approach uses victimization as an excuse for not facing up to one’s own failures and shortcomings.

10. The “Express Your Anger” Approach: Proverbs 29:11 says, “A fool vents all his feelings, but a wise man holds them back.” Anyone who recommends that you just let your emotions go is not giving your sound spiritual advice. There are proper godly ways to express anger, but blowing your top is not one of them. In the extreme, the “Express Your Anger” Approach includes primal screaming, hitting objects, and yelling profanities as a means to getting free from inner pain. But these approaches are exactly the opposite of the self-control, self-denial, and the meek and quiet spirit commended in the Bible.

11. The “Self-help Books and Seminars” Approach: Psalms 118:8 says, “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.” The Bible tells us that it is the holy Scriptures that are able to make us wise unto salvation through faith in Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 3:15). Those who turn to the profusion of self-help books and seminars are seeking to save themselves through intellectual stimulation and carnal motivation. All such materials are merely ineffective substitutes for the Word of Life. They provide convenient excuses to people who are avoiding relationship with God.

12. The “Integrating Psychology With the Word” Approach: Psalms 33:4 says, “For the word of the LORD is right, and all His work is done in truth.” To mix psychology with the Word is to dress the snake up in lamb skins and welcome him into the garden of Eden. This approach arrogantly presumes that God’s wisdom is incomplete and needs man’s speculations to make it effective. It is the Word of God alone, however, that is quick and powerful, that is spirit and life, that is the power of God unto salvation. Those who sprinkle psychological theory into the ministry of the Word are making the Word of no effect by their philosophies and traditions.

13. The “Psychological Terminology in Preaching and Teaching” Approach: 1 Corinthians 2:2 says, “For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” Those preachers who are using psychological terms in their preaching are giving stark evidence that they don’t believe God really knows what He’s doing. They are preaching “another gospel.”

Two other approaches to inner healing are not false in and of themselves, but they become false when isolated from the larger context of spiritual growth. The first is the “Instant Holy Ghost Fix-It-All”Approach. This is the idea that when a person receives the gift of the Holy Ghost, that’s it, he has been made whole. This idea negates the whole concept of spiritual growth. Philippians 2:12 says, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” When a person receives the Holy Ghost, God begins working in him to produce growth. But we must keep in mind that growth is a process. It is not instantaneous. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide us “into all truth” (John 16:13). This includes the truth about ourselves and our need for growth. Some grow faster than others, but all require time. No one gets all truth overnight.

To promote the idea that perfection is acquired in one experience with God is likening the Holy Ghost to fairy dust or a magic wand. While it is true that miraculous steps of growth can take place in a single prayer meeting or with a single move of God (and I am in no way discounting those things), it is unbiblical to suggest that this is the only or primary means by which God operates. Rather than encouraging people to look to the “big meeting” or the “exceptional event,” they should be taught that healing and growth generally take place over time.

A second similar approach is the “Just Pray and Fast and Get in the Word” Approach. This is when people are told that they just need to get closer to God or study His Word. This is what might be called the “All you need is God” Approach. Again, I am not intending to discount these prayer and Bible study, for they are essential elements of every believer’s walk with God. But when they are isolated from the larger context of relationships within the body of Christ, this approach often results in discouragement rather than spiritual progress. The truth is, we all need God and His body. James 5:16 says, “Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.” It is important that believers understand the need for body relationships in healing and growth. Encouraging faithfulness in prayer, fasting, and Bible study is good, but must be part of the larger process described in God’s plan for our lives.

[jdcord]

My next question is why do we as apostolic Christians feel we have to define ourselves using these thories? Isn't our entire Christian walk about being transformed from glory to glory into HIS image? Something that would of necessity involve MUCH change. I can certainly say that my temperament at birth was RADICALLY changed by my new birth and is still under construction. I thought being born again meant freedom from our sinful human nature?
The four temperments aren't about "sinful" human nature. They are about personality types (extrovert, introvert, analytical, thoughtful, etc.). I have always been analytical, my wife has always been an extrovert. Not only did God not change those things about us when we were born again, he has used them in furthering His will in our lives.

Again I must ask, why would we expect God to change things about us that He Himself put in us in the first place?? (much less to call those things "sinful nature")

[jdcord]

Bro. Dave,


I'm assuming that wasn't in response to my request for something proving that the idea of the four temperents is astrology, because if it was I must have missed that part.

If it was just something you felt worth posting, and had nothing to do with my request, just ignore this post. :)

[Jim]

Ummmm, ok. How about posting something that factually relates the four temperments as being part of astrology?



Modern Man in Search of a Soul C. G. Jung, page 82

"Since the earliest times, attempts have repeatedly been made to classify individuals according to types and thus to bring order into what was confusion. The oldest attempt of this sort known to us was made by oriental astrologers who devised the so-called trigons of the four elements, air, water, earth and the fire. The trigon of the air as it appears in a horoscope consists of the three "aerial" signs of the zodiac, Aquarius, Gemini and Libra; the trigon of fire is made up of Aries, Leo and Sagittarius. According to this age-old view, whoever is born in these trigons shares in their aerial or fiery nature and reveals a corresponding disposition and destiny. The ancient cosmological scheme is the parent of the psychological type-theory of antiquity according to which the four dispositions correspond to the four humours of the body. What was first represented by the signs of the zodiac was later expressed in the psychological terms of Greek medicine, giving us the classification into phlegmatic, sanguine, choleric, and melancholic. These are merely terms for the supposed humours of the body. As is well-known, this classification lasted nearly seventeen centuries. As for the astrological type-theory, to the astonishment of the enlightened, it remains intact today, and is even enjoying a new vogue.
This historical retrospect may set our minds at rest as to the fact that our modern efforts to formulate a theory of types are by no means new and unprecedented, even if our scientific conscience no longer permits us to revert to these old, intuitive ways of handling the question. We must find our own answer to this problem-an answer which satisfies the demands of science
And here we meet the chief difficulty of the problem of types-that is, the question of standards or criteria. The astrological criteria was simple; it was given by the constellations. As to the way in which the elements of human character could be ascribed to the zodiacal signs and the planets, this is a question which reaches back into the gray mists of pre-history and remains unanswerable. The Greek classification according to the four psychological dispositions took as its criteria the appearance and behavior of the individual, exactly as is done today in the case of modern psychological types. But where shall we seek our criterion for a psychological theory of types? Let us return to the previously mentioned instance of the various individuals who had to cross a brook. How, and from what standpoint, should we classify their habitual incentives? One person does it from pleasure, another acts because not to act is more troublesome, a third does not act because he has second thoughts, and so forth. The list the possibility seems both endless and useless for purposes of classification.
I do not know how other people would set about the task. I can therefore only tell you how I myself approach the matter, and I must submit to reproach that my way of solving the problem is the outcome of my individual prejudice. Indeed, this objection is so entirely true, that I should not know how to meet it. I might, perhaps, content myself by referring to Columbus, who, by using subjective assumptions, a false hypothesis, and a route abandoned by modern navigation, nevertheless discovered America. Whatever we look at, and however we look at it, we see only through our own eyes. For this reason a science is never made by one man, but by many. The individual nearly offers his contribution, and in this sense only do I dare to speak of my way of seeing things."

----

excerpt from a web page:


A major deception in the church today is the so-called spiritual application of pseudo-psychological temperament theory for individual personality assessment, which, in actuality, is derived from pagan and occultic philosophies. (The "temperament" can be defined as the unique mental and emotional disposition identifiable as the personality.) The study of the temperaments, which are man-centered, self-oriented, and psycho-paganistic, are being offered to the unwitting as a sophisticated, almost magical way to understand our deepest natures and our personality types. In actuality, Christians could be unknowingly lured into the occult by practicing the temperaments and other New Age personality typologies.
Burkett taps into four-temperaments/personality testing techniques through CFC's Life Pathways Division (formerly Career Pathways). (The name was changed [7/97] from "Career Pathways" to "Life Pathways" to emphasize even more "situations in which a person's unique personality and talents play a role.") CFC offers a "Complete Career Assessment Package" (dubbed Career Direct), which includes an "Interest, Skills & Values Inventory" (ISVI) and a "Personality Inventory" (CPPI). (Over 40,000 packages at $75 each have been sold since 1990.) Other career guidance resources include a self-scoring Personality Analysis booklet to help "a person identify and understand his or her personality profile. It highlights strengths and weaknesses and relates 16 individual profiles to the work environment." (This self-scoring personality analysis is also available as a $12.95 PC computer program, called MatchPoint -- 7/96, Money Matters, p. 6.)
In Burkett's materials catalog, there is a listing for the Personal Profile System (PPS), which is a personality inventory based on Carl Jung's (psychologist, spiritist/occultist, and anti-Christian) theory of psychological types, which has its roots in the four temperaments and astrology. Burkett's catalog says the following about the PPS:
"This is the self-scoring version of the DiSC instrument that Larry Burkett began using years ago to determine a person's basic personality profile. With it you can identify your primary and secondary motivations and begin to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your personality. You can also learn to appreciate how others have different motivations and see how each profile has a most desired and most efficient work environment." (Emphasis added.)
The implied promises in this and other such listings are wholly incompatible with the facts. But then, those infatuated with psychological concepts have never let their opinions be changed by facts. (See the Bobgan's book, Four Temperaments, Astrology & Personality Testing.)

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/fourbk.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/images/4temp_01.pdf


----

God bless,

Jim

[Felicity]

I don't see where understanding personality type has anything at all to do with science and certainly not astrology! :eek: I think it's helpful to understand ourselves.....our strengths and our weaknesses ..... and then submit both to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

I certainly don't advocate self-analysis or self-improvement/transformation as a means of being born again or having anything to do with a changed nature. But I sure do advocate Spirit transformation - i.e. our natures changed by the power of God.

As we submit ourselves to him, He is able to change, enhance and improve on our natural temperament. I've seen it happen in any person that is sold out to Christ.

Analyzing our personality type doesn't aid or prevent spiritual transformation of the old man by the Holy Ghost. And I don't think we're mixing the two - in any way shape or form by taking a look at who we are as individuals re our temperament.

[Hadassah]

Here's something from some notes I put together adapted from the book by the Bobgans on Personality Theory. Hopefully, it will help you to see the link with astrology. I 'm having a hard time getting the last chart to line up...hope you can figure it out.

Between 495-425 BC, Empedocles taught that there were four primary elements to the known universe, each with its own specific qualities:


Fire-Warm & Dry

Air-Warm & Moist

Earth –Cold & Dry

Water- Cold & Moist



From 460-377 BC, Hippocrates expanded on Empedocles’ theory of four elements and taught that there were four corresponding bodily fluids or humors:



Fire-Warm & Dry-Yellow Bile

Air-Warm & Moist-Blood

Earth –Cold & Dry-Black Bile

Water- Cold & Moist—Phlegm



Claudius Galen (AD 130-200) was the physician who advanced Hippocrates theories and took them to the Roman world. He built on Hippocrates’ original theories and wrote more fully on the relationship between humors and temperaments. He sought to explain emotional and behavioral differences between people and to develop treatments that would be suitable to those of varying temperaments. In fact, some of his descriptions of physiological characteristics and their relationship to personality were quite detailed. Everything could presumably be explained by a balance of the humors with the qualities of warm, cold, dry and moist.

For instance Galen wrote:

“Those who are warmer are more hairy and irascible….If their thighs show dense hair they are very lecherous….But if somebody has much hair on the chest, his body is not necessarily much hotter, since most of his heat is in the heart and therefore he is more passionate…But if his skin is hairless, smooth and white, then he becomes cowardly, timid and unenterprising.”

Fire-Warm & Dry-Yellow Bile- Choleric- Quick to Anger

Air-Warm & Moist-Blood- Sanguine-Cheerful, Warm

Earth –Cold & Dry-Black Bile-Melancholy-melancholy

Water- Cold & Moist—Phlegm-Phlegmatic-placid,sluggish



From Empedocles to Galen, each person who developed those categories also believed in the influences of the planets and the stars on the elements, humors, and temperaments. Blending ideas from classical Greek medicine and astronomy, the theory of temperaments which prevailed well into medieval times held that, for example, a sanguine disposition reflected a particular combination of humors in the body and that, in turn, this combination had been fixed by a certain configuration of the stars at the time of an individual's birth.



The four temperaments were finally devalued and considered relics of limited, ancient attempts to understand and deal with individual differences.



But here is the amazing thing-the four temperaments are more popular than ever today, especially among astrologers AND professing evangelical Christians.



The twelve signs of the zodiac are arranged according to the elements (fire, earth, air, and water), the humors (yellow bile, black bile, blood, and phlegm), and the temperaments (choleric, melancholy, sanguine, and phlegmatic), three times round in sequence.



Zodiac /Element/ Humor/ Temperament

Aries Fire Yellow Bile Choleric

Taurus Earth Black Bile Melancholy

Gemini Air Blood Sanguine

Cancer Water Phlegm Phelgmatic

Leo Fire Yellow Bile Choleric

Virgo Earth Black Bile Melancholy

Libra Air Blood Sanguine

Scorpio Water Phlegm Phelgmatic

Sagittarius Fire Yellow Bile Choleric

Capricorn Earth Black Bile Melancholy

Aquarius Air Blood Sanguine

Pisces Water Phlegm Phelgmatic


It was only as various psychologists examined the four temperaments or drew from them to form their own personality theories and categories that the four temperaments have been treated as though they are independent from astrology. Nevertheless, while they may appear to stand on their own, the four temperaments are intrinsically part of astrology.


Ummmm, ok. How about posting something that factually relates the four temperments as being part of astrology?

[jdcord]

I don't see where understanding personality type has anything at all to do with science and certainly not astrology! :eek: I think it's helpful to understand ourselves.....our strengths and our weaknesses ..... and then submit both to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

I certainly don't advocate self-analysis or self-improvement/transformation as a means of being born again or having anything to do with a changed nature. But I sure do advocate Spirit transformation - i.e. our natures changed by the power of God.

As we submit ourselves to him, He is able to change, enhance and improve on our natural temperament. I've seen it happen in any person that is sold out to Christ.

Analyzing our personality type doesn't aid or prevent spiritual transformation of the old man by the Holy Ghost. And I don't think we're mixing the two - in any way shape or form by taking a look at who we are as individuals re our temperament.
Amen! Good post.

[ddc101]

Brother Cord,
The four temprement studies are psychology.They teach that in secular psycology in college.I have taken several psychology courses in order to complete my degree as its required.How it got into mainline christianity is through Tim Lahaye.lv sis.c

[ddc101]

As long as I have been a nurse I have always wondered why someone doesn't come up with new names for phelgm or mucous.They both sound extremely disgusting....yuck.....hey knowledge is then key to change.Both Brother Jim and Haddassah have their stuff in order.Thanks for the articles.lv sis.c

[jhlent]

Amen Sister Hadassah I agree.
In fact there is a brother Jim who posts here that is into biblical counsel as well as I

sis.c It is Bro. J.R. Ensy course on soteric counseling – it is a great course.
I have already taken it – and a few of us from the Apostolic Bible Institute had to fly down to Houston as part of the required course for the certification. There are 5 men I know personally that all have gone into psychology – and there remains only 1 that still holds to the doctrine. All 5 of these men had a call of God on their lives. 3 of them were Pastors, and 1 still remains. - - THAT is a sad statement.

One of the 5 helped to also pull his own father out of Truth and destroyed the Church his father was Pastoring.

There are so many lives effected by such teachings.

[jhlent]

Modern Man in Search of a Soul C. G. Jung, page 82

"Since the earliest times, attempts have repeatedly been made to classify individuals according to types and thus to bring order into what was confusion. The oldest attempt of this sort known to us was made by oriental astrologers who devised the so-called trigons of the four elements, air, water, earth and the fire.

----

excerpt from a web page:

A major deception in the church today is the so-called spiritual application of pseudo-psychological temperament theory for individual personality assessment, which, in actuality, is derived from pagan and occultic philosophies. (The "temperament" can be defined as the unique mental and emotional disposition identifiable as the personality.)
----

God bless,

Jim HEY there Bro Jim - - Good to see you back again........

And even from the grave good old carl is still having an effect on the Church……

[electladynb]

I'm a little bit confused...... Are we talking about the "ESTJ/ENTP/etc"?

I don't think that in any way that is negating who you are in God. At the same time, even when we are saved, there are particular characteristics that we will still have.... that's what makes you (general) you. I am moreso an ENTP type of person which helps in regards to one on one counseling, etc....

Maybe you could elaborate more on what is wrong with this type of thinking. I don't think that it negates what God has called you to at all......

[Abigail4476]

I'm a little bit confused...... Are we talking about the "ESTJ/ENTP/etc"?

I don't think that in any way that is negating who you are in God. At the same time, even when we are saved, there are particular characteristics that we will still have.... that's what makes you (general) you. I am moreso an ENTP type of person which helps in regards to one on one counseling, etc....

Maybe you could elaborate more on what is wrong with this type of thinking. I don't think that it negates what God has called you to at all......
Understanding how the mind/brain works is no different than understanding how the liver works--just far more complex. It is a science, and men have been studying it for ages. There is nothing, in my opinion, that is "anti-God" in the study of the human brain/mind and its functions/emotions.

Also, children are born with their personalities--I can definitely vouch for this with my three. And it does seem that some personality attributes seem to stick together, i.e., those who are quick to anger, seem to have a loose tongue to go with it, and those who are anti-social seem to enjoy living like hermits. Studying those attributes of humanity and observing their commonalities is just another field of science. Merely because a humanist studied this field as well does not mean it is off-limits or occultic. Albert Einstein did not believe in God and did not use Biblical principles to shape his studies; nevertheless, his mathematical contributions were/are accurate and are applied today. Shall we throw out his math theories because he wasn't Christian? NO...of course not.

Likewise, many scholars agree on the similar personality groups...and there is so much agreement, that no matter what the label, they all are similar to each other. That helps to prove the validity of the argument. A person's religious persuasion does not necessarily discount his conclusions in science. (or other studies)

Anyway, I see these studies as a valuable tool for helping us to deal compassionately with our fellow man. If I look at a person and I understand that some things in their personality (I said personality not character) are genetic, and that there are some things they are born with, then I will be more understanding with them in general, and perhaps I will not be so annoyed when they talk loudly, act bossy, lose things all the time, are absent-minded, etc etc etc.

[Renee29]

Abigail posseses something that this board is severely lacking. BALANCE.

Understanding how the mind/brain works is no different than understanding how the liver works--just far more complex. It is a science, and men have been studying it for ages. There is nothing, in my opinion, that is "anti-God" in the study of the human brain/mind and its functions/emotions.

Also, children are born with their personalities--I can definitely vouch for this with my three. And it does seem that some personality attributes seem to stick together, i.e., those who are quick to anger, seem to have a loose tongue to go with it, and those who are anti-social seem to enjoy living like hermits. Studying those attributes of humanity and observing their commonalities is just another field of science. Merely because a humanist studied this field as well does not mean it is off-limits or occultic. Albert Einstein did not believe in God and did not use Biblical principles to shape his studies; nevertheless, his mathematical contributions were/are accurate and are applied today. Shall we throw out his math theories because he wasn't Christian? NO...of course not.

Likewise, many scholars agree on the similar personality groups...and there is so much agreement, that no matter what the label, they all are similar to each other. That helps to prove the validity of the argument. A person's religious persuasion does not necessarily discount his conclusions in science. (or other studies)

Anyway, I see these studies as a valuable tool for helping us to deal compassionately with our fellow man. If I look at a person and I understand that some things in their personality (I said personality not character) are genetic, and that there are some things they are born with, then I will be more understanding with them in general, and perhaps I will not be so annoyed when they talk loudly, act bossy, lose things all the time, are absent-minded, etc etc etc.

[NanaRenan]

Do we differentiate between psychology and psychiatry? Or as Holy Ghost filled Apostolics do we discount all study of mental health and behavior?

I've seen arguments both ways and would like the input of the good folks of GNC.

Is all mental illness "spiritual oppression"? Or can it be symptoms of physiological disorders ? And who is qualified to tell us?

If I can trust a doctor to diagnose and treat diabetes or some other chronic disease, what about manifestations of the mental realm?

If my pastor says it's just oppression, then why might those "spirits" respond to little green pills?

[NanaRenan]

Understanding how the mind/brain works is no different than understanding how the liver works--just far more complex. It is a science, and men have been studying it for ages. There is nothing, in my opinion, that is "anti-God" in the study of the human brain/mind and its functions/emotions.
.....
Anyway, I see these studies as a valuable tool for helping us to deal compassionately with our fellow man. If I look at a person and I understand that some things in their personality (I said personality not character) are genetic, and that there are some things they are born with, then I will be more understanding with them in general, and perhaps I will not be so annoyed when they talk loudly, act bossy, lose things all the time, are absent-minded, etc etc etc.
I agree with this. Although I don't doubt that there are those who delve into the occult, astology, etc. who will try to bend things to their way of thinking -- and it might be a slippery slope for some. I think this information can be used in a positive way, as well.

[Renee29]

No, all mental illness is not spiritual oppresion. Some is, some isn't. I think most HG filled people should be able to discern the difference. Lot's of Apsotolics don't believe in depression, in fact, my Pastor was one of them until is wife suffered from severe depression for 2 1/2 years. In my opinion, when reading the bible it's evident to me that David suffered from depression at times.

Do we differentiate between psychology and psychiatry? Or as Holy Ghost filled Apostolics do we discount all study of mental health and behavior?

I've seen arguments both ways and would like the input of the good folks of GNC.

Is all mental illness "spiritual oppression"? Or can it be symptoms of physiological disorders ? And who is qualified to tell us?

If I can trust a doctor to diagnose and treat diabetes or some other chronic disease, what about manifestations of the mental realm?

If my pastor says it's just oppression, then why might those "spirits" respond to little green pills?

[Riddler1a]

Amen Sister Hadassah I agree.In fact there is a brother Jim who posts here that is into biblical counsel as well as I.I hate psychology.It is a religon.I know of several churches who are using the psychology personality testing to try to teach things in the church.They get the materials via Tim Lahaye etc.
What it can do is label.Jesus is very well able to equip anybody to do anything.He does not need them to be personally gifted in any area.Think of Moses and Aaron.Jesus is able to make up for our weaknesses.lv sis.c
Psychology in its basic terms is the study of human nature.
The Bible is one big psychological study. There shouldn't be a problem with studying psychology as long as the theories do not conflict with scripture. It sounds like some on this forum would like to throw out the baby with the bath water. It's almost like throwing away a science book because one chapter deals with evolution.

[foxfamily238]

Looky here, folks: What exactly is psychology...?

Main Entry: psy·chol·o·gy http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?psycho44.wav=psychology'))
Pronunciation: -jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Etymology: New Latin psychologia, from psych- + -logia -logy
1 : the science of mind and behavior
2 a : the mental or behavioral characteristics of an individual or group b : the study of mind and behavior in relation to a particular field of knowledge or activity
Now tell me where you see any contradiction of scripture here? There is none. Please get an understanding, it is NOT taking the place of God and His handiwork. There are literally thousands of Apostolic couples breaking up in marriage..why? Because they don't believe God? Because they don't pray? No, because they were never given the TOOLS that God gave us in the first place to use to maintain this little brain and emotions of ours.

The problem is when you have a SECULAR Pschologist that integrates his own philosphies INTO psychiatry. The problem is not psychology itself, and personality graphs, and the 4 temperments, and character traits, etc.. they are good. Those are only TOOLS to understand people better, and the more you understand, the better you can minister to them. Don't let a superstitious, bogus misunderstanding of things cloud your vision as to what it is or not.

Who is our COUNSELOR? Jesus Christ. (Isaiah 9:6) He's a healer if you need healing, a shelter from the storm, Jehova Jireh providing, He's our rock, fortress, deliver, but sometimes we need counsel! Not every single thing is a "praying through", and spiritual. You are yet lacking basic understanding in this. God uses people with understanding to help you when you'r own patterns of thinking is off base.

Yes, one moment in His presence can bring a healing touch of a broken heart. But there's more friends, life goes on. And...invariably, there will be a few that say, "He did it for me! He'll do it for everyone!". I beg of you, don't generalize your particular healing with others. You have no idea what is REALLY on the inside of other's lives. The heart is wicked...who can know it?" Certainly not you, nor I, only Jesus Christ! (Oh, Lord, I best stop..hehe). :D

[ddc101]

We don't need psychology we need Biblical Counseling.There are many who are set up to practice.Just go on line and type in Biblical Counselors and watch what comes up.The Soteric Institute is apostolic men and women who are trained.Most were secular psychologists etc who have the Holy Ghost and use the word for every session.lv sis.c

[foxfamily238]

We don't need psychology we need Biblical Counseling.There are many who are set up to practice.Just go on line and type in Biblical Counselors and watch what comes up.The Soteric Institute is apostolic men and and women who are trained.Most were secular psychologists etc who have the Holy Ghost and use the word for every session.lv sis.c
There is no difference in what has been just said. Psychology is the definative term. If you don't feel comfortable using it, that is a personal preference, however the proper terminogy is still in place. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you, that trained, Holy Ghost, apostolic men and women who utilize psychology, is an incredibly needful position nowadays, which time does not allow here.

Look. Counsel. Anyone can counsel. It is not a professional, specified office:

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety. (Proverbs 11:4)
However, Christian Psychology IS Biblical Counseling. You're just using different labels!
Before you get dogmatic about minute terminology, allow some basic facts to rule the thoughts. In itself, psychology is only a science, as biology, or sociology, or even astronomy. (Some even are ignorant in proper terms, that they think Astronomy is sorcery or similar. That is astrology)

What you keep mashing in the same basket, is secular vs. Christ-based phsycology. As previously stated, I have and will encourage all those in that particular need, to have someone that is dedicated in their respected field, but preferrably a Holy Ghost filled Christ based person.

When you see like I have, that literally THOUSANDS of Apostolic families, marraiges, and relationships are going down the drain, even while they are praying, fasting, and seeking God, you tend to lessen your butchering dogmatic stance on some areas. Not the word, but on how you apply the word to broken lives, and broken mistrusting hearts.

You're missing the point. Trust me, I know. I've assisted, ministered, and seen too much for a bulldog, dogmatic, approach to life being so black and white. It's not, mi amigo. I pray the Lord bless you with understanding, not for yourself, but for others in pain, hurt, and need. In Jesus name.:redcool:

.

[ddc101]

Hi friend,
Sorry but I am not missing the point.I also have counseled multiple people and don't need a definition of psychology.No Biblical counselors do not use psychology's profiles etc.Sorry but I disagree.lv sis.c

[foxfamily238]

Hi friend,
Sorry but I am not missing the point.I also have counseled multiple people and don't need a definition of psychology.No Biblical counselors do not use psychology's profiles etc.Sorry but I disagree.lv sis.c

I know you don't need a definition of psychology, but I am just giving it as a reference. Again, psychology is only a science, a tool, and yes BIBLICAL counselors are USING psychology. That is WHAT they are doing! We are not really disagreeing, sis. I am just using the proper terminology. You keep insisting on putting the science of psychology into a realm of strictly secular new age stuff. It's not. Do you teach or preach ever? You are using hermeneutics (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=hermeneutics&spell=1). The Science of interpreting Scripture. Is everyone using this properly? No! Of course not, but I am just asking you to lesson your dogmatic stance on your lack of using proper verbaige.

It's this kind of tenacity, that leads people misquoting scriptures all over. (I.e. It's the anointed the breaks the yoke). I trust you know that the verbaige means everything in properly applying the Word of God. The scripture actually says that the anointing "destroys" the yoke. Big difference. Just using that as an example. So, please just be extra careful on which battles you choose, that's all. Just watchin yer bac, sis. In Jesus name. :D

[ddc101]

Now I totally disagree with you on that one and I am not being dogmatic.I disagree with psychology.Biblical counseling and psychology are like light and dark.And light and darkness do not agree.One always outshines the other.I totally agree with Bro.Enseys book The Cross or the Couch and Sis.Linda Dotys book Apostolic Counseling.lv sis.c

[Bought By Blood]

The problem with the integration of personality or temperament theories with scripture is that somehow these secular self-improvement techniques are confused with sanctification-a work of the Holy Ghost. If the means of obtaining a “transformed temperament” relies on anything other than the inner working of the Holy Ghost who leads us and guides us into all truth-then we are exchanging our dependency and trust in God for something else. In this case-an ancient system devised for understanding human nature and thereby improving the human condition. A system that gives the illusion of exceptional insight into oneself and others- thus encouraging a self-focus using humanly devised methods.

The Bible knows nothing of personality-typing to understand behavior. Whatever the label Christians will give to the latest fad in New Age personality systems, its origins can be traced to ancient pagan philosophy or occult religions, not the Bible. Even when combined with Biblical teachings, the four temperaments do not become transformed, as some writers promise. They are forever being tempered within the confines of determinism.

Having been a student of psychology in University before I was saved-I recognized immediately the incompatibility of any of its theories with the Word of God. Anything we were meant to understand oabout ourselves or others can be found within the pages of this awesome Book!




According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (Peter 1:3-4).

If God through the knowledge of himself has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness, then what would be left to obtain from psychology. People who turn to psychology for answers are no different than Saul turning to the witch at Endor for answers because he could not hear from God. The fact that the UPC is allowing this heretical doctrine into it's ranks is will be the it's downfall.

BBB

[ddc101]

Amen and hey I love that avatar.lv sis.c

[Bought By Blood]

Amen and hey I love that avatar.lv sis.c
Thanks Sis!!! :D

BBB

[HangingOn]

I just joined yesterday and was not going to just jump right in on this topic as I have in the past because I just don't need riducule from anyone that believes in psychiatry. If they want to believe it is the answer for them, I can do nothing to change that but I can try to educate people on what is happening right here in our own country, the land of the free (no more) and the home of the brave.

Psychiatry (forced psychiatry) has ripped our family apart! I am not ready to jump into our story again except to say that Brother Ensey's book is right on target!

Thus you see by my user name HangingOn and that is exactly what I am barely doing after the persecution, real persecution that has hit our family by a profession that calls our Oneness Apostolic views, "extreme religious beliefs!" And we are not even as strong on some standards as others in the truth are!

I remember hearing Holy Ghost annointed preaching against psychiatry. God has not changed, why should we? Brother Ensey's book tells about others that psychiatry has destroyed their families.

And there is many more psychiatry has destroyed through their anti God opinions but many are too afraid to speak out on it because of the ridicule they will suffer!

Some have even moved to escape having to give their children dangerous psychotic drugs not even approved safe to use in children. I am talking about Oneness Pentecostal people! As well as others. Children are dying on these dangerous drugs while many parents stand helplessly by not able to do a thing about it :(

As far as those that psychiatry has helped, well maybe a little good does happen as a result of it, although I am not convinced of it but it is the over all picture everyone needs to look at and be fully aware of.

Maybe I will post more when I feel more comfortable doing so. Mental therapists will admit, psychiatry is a bunch of "opinions!" Opinions from those in the world should never be allowed to run the life of anyone especially God's people!

Sure we should all be able to stand strong no matter what the devil throws our way but be very careful to not judge those that didn't because it is not as easy as you think when you watch your family bring ripped apart especially your children. Easy for us all to take the persecution ourselves but when we see it happening to our children destroying them it is not as easy to rejoice in persecution.

Don't think the devil can force himself into your homes? Think again. There is real persecution going on and psychiatry has a very big part in that persecution.

Even someone in UPC that is in the mental health profession told me he knew, "psychiatry is not the answer!"

It is my understanding that is why Sister Doty left the psychiatric field because of how anti Godly it is.

Not all in the psychiatric field are evil. Some even have good intentions but they work for a very evil profession that does not care about you, your children, or I making Heaven!

I apologize if this posts twice as the first time according to my pc screen it did not post.

[JesusWaysOnly]

Ummmm, ok. How about posting something that factually relates the four temperments as being part of astrology?im with hadessah on this one. the enemy is always trying to use different names as trickery to get you envolved in sin. if God wanted to group us together he would. the fact of the matter is if we seek God he will fix what needs to be fixed and lead us in using the rest. the other is just wordly gobbledy gook

[JesusWaysOnly]

What you keep mashing in the same basket, is secular vs. Christ-based phsycology. As previously stated, I have and will encourage all those in that particular need, to have someone that is dedicated in their respected field, but preferrably a Holy Ghost filled Christ based person.


.Christ-based? show me a scripture where Jesus teaches psychology. i agree with Jesus being the true councelor, that is what is so awesome about Him he is our everything. that is what he keeps trying to tell everyone you dont have to trust in our own understanding. just PRAY! he does the rest

[Apostolic Ont]

Psychology literally means the study of the mind.

The Holy Bible certainly is the best study of the mind there is.

Secular Humanism is just one branch of psychology. Christian values and principles can certainly be applied to the study of the mind.

Psychology is a neutral science. It can either be a tool for good or ill depending on how it is applied.

Jesus Christ is the original and the best counsellor for any troubled mind.

By the way I am a psychology student so I may be a bit biased in favor of psychology as a profession.

[ddc101]

I guess my question would be, where in Scripture did God ever assign to us labels such as sanguine or choleric etc? Temperament theory constitutes an inadvertent way for people to practice an astrological kind of psychic and esoteric determinism without casting a horoscope -and without even realizing that they are practicing the essence of astrology. Neither astrology nor the four temperaments theory is scientific. Both are deceptive and invalid. Both reinterpret Biblical doctrine. Astrology is anathema to the Christian. And since the four temperaments are an intrinsic component of astrology, it only makes sense-at least to my way of thinking-that the four temperaments should be avoided as well.


My next question is why do we as apostolic Christians feel we have to define ourselves using these thories? Isn't our entire Christian walk about being transformed from glory to glory into HIS image? Something that would of necessity involve MUCH change. I can certainly say that my temperament at birth was RADICALLY changed by my new birth and is still under construction. I thought being born again meant freedom from our sinful human nature? I can't see how freedom comes from figuring out one's temperament according to the relics of the four temperaments and astrology. Jesus already gave us the way to freedom, and that is through believing the Word of God and living by that Truth (John 8:31-32). To employ psychological theories as methods of understanding and change is a classic example of being “conformed to the systems that govern this world.” Something Paul warned us about in Romans 12:1. He went on to say that Christians are transformed “through the renewing of the mind” No psychological theory can compare with the promise found in the supernatural, transforming power of the Holy Ghost.

(2Co 5:17) So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

(Gal 6:15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Today the works added to the Cross of Christ are not circumcision. Instead of adding circumcision to faith in Christ, we are adding the works of self-analysis and self-improvement through psychological systems, such as the four temperaments.

Why do we feel a need to help God do what only He is able to accomplish in our lives and in the lives of other people-lost or saved? That is the part I just cannot grasp. To my mind, the four temperaments are the beggarly elements of the world and serve absolutely NO purpose in the life of a blood bought, Holy Ghost filled Christian.

Hey in reading to day I found this post and really liked what it had to say.
Thanks Sister.lv sis.c

[Rhoni]

Psychology literally means the study of the mind.

The Holy Bible certainly is the best study of the mind there is.

Secular Humanism is just one branch of psychology. Christian values and principles can certainly be applied to the study of the mind.

Psychology is a neutral science. It can either be a tool for good or ill depending on how it is applied.

Jesus Christ is the original and the best counsellor for any troubled mind.

By the way I am a psychology student so I may be a bit biased in favor of psychology as a profession.

Great post! I am a marriage & family therapist. I loved my integration class...showed us how to use Christian principles in the counseling process...if we are to practice the ministry of Christ in our world...counseling is one of those attributes that we model after Christ.

Blessings, Rhoni

[prayercloth sis]

I just joined yesterday and was not going to just jump right in on this topic as I have in the past because I just don't need riducule from anyone that believes in psychiatry. If they want to believe it is the answer for them, I can do nothing to change that but I can try to educate people on what is happening right here in our own country, the land of the free (no more) and the home of the brave.

Psychiatry (forced psychiatry) has ripped our family apart! I am not ready to jump into our story again except to say that Brother Ensey's book is right on target!

Thus you see by my user name HangingOn and that is exactly what I am barely doing after the persecution, real persecution that has hit our family by a profession that calls our Oneness Apostolic views, "extreme religious beliefs!" And we are not even as strong on some standards as others in the truth are!

I remember hearing Holy Ghost annointed preaching against psychiatry. God has not changed, why should we? Brother Ensey's book tells about others that psychiatry has destroyed their families.

And there is many more psychiatry has destroyed through their anti God opinions but many are too afraid to speak out on it because of the ridicule they will suffer!

Some have even moved to escape having to give their children dangerous psychotic drugs not even approved safe to use in children. I am talking about Oneness Pentecostal people! As well as others. Children are dying on these dangerous drugs while many parents stand helplessly by not able to do a thing about it :(

As far as those that psychiatry has helped, well maybe a little good does happen as a result of it, although I am not convinced of it but it is the over all picture everyone needs to look at and be fully aware of.

Maybe I will post more when I feel more comfortable doing so. Mental therapists will admit, psychiatry is a bunch of "opinions!" Opinions from those in the world should never be allowed to run the life of anyone especially God's people!

Sure we should all be able to stand strong no matter what the devil throws our way but be very careful to not judge those that didn't because it is not as easy as you think when you watch your family bring ripped apart especially your children. Easy for us all to take the persecution ourselves but when we see it happening to our children destroying them it is not as easy to rejoice in persecution.

Don't think the devil can force himself into your homes? Think again. There is real persecution going on and psychiatry has a very big part in that persecution.

Even someone in UPC that is in the mental health profession told me he knew, "psychiatry is not the answer!"

It is my understanding that is why Sister Doty left the psychiatric field because of how anti Godly it is.

Not all in the psychiatric field are evil. Some even have good intentions but they work for a very evil profession that does not care about you, your children, or I making Heaven!

I apologize if this posts twice as the first time according to my pc screen it did not post.

So glad to hear you are still hanging on....

will be praying for you and your family...

I have seen the Lord put a Pastor's family back together at an altar in 20-30 minutes after prayer and the Holy Ghost taking over...(this was after 5 years of turmoil). With God ALL things are possible!

The courts and doctors and so forth had driven them apart...also a lie had started it all...

Needless to say there is HOPE and His name is JESUS and He is the COMFORTER, OUR COUNSELOR, PRINCE OF PEACE, THE EVERLASTING FATHER AND HE DOES STICK CLOSER THAN A BROTHER....LIST COULD GO ON AND ON...

I am sure you get the jest...

Love and prayers to you and your precious family

Sis B

[vessup2000]

Bases of applied Freud and many other haters of religion whom some believe are neccessary in the Church are mislead and should read the history of these so called professionals which satan still uses to thread his web of modern decit in every catagory from the music room to the dinning room.

[vessup2000]

When it gets complicated than it is not of God. The simple-ist is the greatest!
Keep it simple the King James version.

[revtonysantucci]

This is a topic which has also given rise to much debate. I would love to hear some thoughts on using counselors in churches who have been educated in secular institutions and in some cases licensed by states or provinces. Also, there seems to be an alarming increase in the use of psychological materials which in many ways contradict the scriptures by teaching us to rely on self rather than total dependence upon the Word and the Spirit of God. This would include things like Personality or Temperament Theories, as well as many of the church growth and church leadership methods which have become so popular today.
http://www.picable.com/Concepts/Religion/Psychology-and-Christianity.2950245
:xmas2:

[FlamingZword]

Psychology is just man trying to find salvation thru man.

The root of Psychology is from men destitute of the knowledge of God.

woe unto him that putteth his trust in man and his ideas instead of what thus said the Lord.

www.one-lord.org (http://www.one-lord.org)

[Dordt]

Psalm 1:1, “Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.”

[Jay.Benson]

Maybe this is off the mark but I see them intertwined... many scriptures that use the word soul refer to the mind thus I've always considered the possibility that our spiritual and physical "selves" lie in what is known in the secular teachings as the "Id".
With that said, our spirit and the Holy Spirit become bonded when we are born again therefore wouldn't that mean our personalities become joined with the personality of Jesus Christ? In such a case the Holy Spirit doesn't change our personality but instead is joined to it.... sanctification then being a process of the two personalities becoming as one, not one becoming the other but two into one.

Or not....

[RandyWayne]

Psychology is just man trying to find salvation thru man.

The root of Psychology is from men destitute of the knowledge of God.

woe unto him that putteth his trust in man and his ideas instead of what thus said the Lord.

www.one-lord.org (http://www.one-lord.org)

Would you consider your average 12 step program an attempt to find salvation through man? What would the alternative be for an addict? And I know many will say "Prayer and fasting!" and then give a story of someone who went to the alter, received the Holy Ghost, and threw their cigarette pack across the room never to smoke again. The thing is is that I know NON-Christians who gave up smoking and other addictions just as abrubtly. What about those to whom it doesn't come so easy?