Mental incapacities/salvation

[tufluv]

I would like to get understanding as to IF people who are mentally challenged, will they also be automatically saved? Can they make this decision "in a right sober mind"?
Some people are on med's for their mental disorders.
Some are just self-medicating (if you know what I mean:D)?
How 'bout those with senility, now often called Alzheimers?
I have the kids grandma I'm thinking about. Gosh, this is one of those "iffy" maybe, questions.
Any opinions or thoughts appreciated.

[ddc101]

I have seen people who are mentally challenged receive the Holy Ghost.You can somewhat reason with even an alzeheimers patient though in a childlike way.But if the mind cannot comprehend at all I am afraid its too late.That is why we need to reach our older population before its too late.My mom received the Holy Ghost and not long after developed alzeheimers.I say God saved her just in time.He knew what she was going to face.
I take care of a children with disabilities.One house I am working in we have baptised the mom and she was claiming the Holy Ghost..The parents decision will be the salvation of this child.
She falls under their authority as she cannot make the decision for herself.Some things we will have to leave up to the judgement of God.lv sis.c

[tufluv]

And for me, its not just their grandma (in a nursing home) theres my friend I grew up with, who is now bi-polar, (just like her now deceased mom), and she did get baptized acts2:38, but was NEVER active, still isn't, but is hopping around to different denominations! even got baptized in the Mormons church!
Scary! Its like she's playing around with the LORD, but if she never really knew what she was doing, I wonder...I guess no one really has any definitive answer, only GOD, but it still seems reprehensible to me, this is adultering against GOD., and she seems lucid enough at times, I think she was back then, way before I got baptized. She is totally absent now, and is back with the Jehovah's! or ? changes daily almost.
BTW: I hadn't realized I had started this thread in the ministerial section! I had meant the general discussions, but now with open discussions, I guess it doesn't really matter that much, or does it?
Its really about time for me now to :beammeup:
Thanks for responding Sis Cooper.

[ddc101]

Your friend sis.Tufluv needs deliverance.That same spirit that has caused her to be bipolor is still stringing her out.She needs the Holy Ghost.

[tufluv]

Sis Cooper:
Well, she seemed to have it, by speaking in tongues., and she in fact, is the one who brought me another Apostolic, who prayed for me and I was delivered from alcoholism, that day! and began my road to acts2:38 salvation, and beyond!
I agree, she does need deliverance, but never stays put or stays faithful to the LORD., she is mentally sick, has been on med's forever it seems, in and out of hospitals for mental illness, etc.

We have all prayed for her for so long. One more aside question: have you ever heard of someone praying for someone else with bad spirits, and they then leave that person...but "jump" into someone else?
I've always wondered about this, cause if so, then my bad spirits might have transferred to her, and thus her current state...talk about guilt! She WAS one of those who prayed for me that day, she and her sister alone...her sister is now my bestfriend/sister Rosie, and we are like peas&carrots! We even share the same birthday (2yrs apart).
Thanks for your time, and help!

[foreverblessed]

My Mother has Alzheimers, she is pretty bad now. She is very childlike. Sometimes spirits get off on her, (I believe the enemy uses her to stir things up) and she can drive you crazy at church or prayer meetings. Then there are times that she is more clear, and can pray the house down. I have really been surprised at how she can still sometimes get a hold of God and pray with all her heart.
I have seen the mentally challenged receive the Holy Ghost. I believe that God is a just God and will judge them by their capabilities of receiving him. JMO

[tufluv]

Well, yes, and then there's the physically handicapped w/mental!
And we think we're challenged sometimes!
There's a man in our congregation, his sister is a member, and wife of the minister/assoc.pastor of our church, anyway, he seems young, but in reality he's probably older than her...anyway, this guy puts others to shame, for he sings, claps, shouts amen, etc., and he can't TALK! like us..although I've learned to make out some of what he tries to say. I remember when he was in our other church, and he would even TAKE NOTES!in Sunday School! and he could write, a little illegibly, but I could make it out, maybe he once could do that and other things as normal.
He wrote slowly, (copying notes off of the chalkboard),but he did it, and he is more like what a regular saint should be! Amazing, yet he's never been healed of his polio? I think it is, and he walks with braces on both feet, very slowly, awkwardly, but he GOES! HE is so nice, I'm not sure if he's baptized though, and he comes when someone will bring him. I heard there was a time when no one did bring him, and he slipped back into the old ways of drinking! of all things..he used to be a party guy once. There may be more to his story than I've heard, I haven't asked...but may some day.
He is an inspiration, I tell you that! there's some normal? people who don't do anything to praise GOD. His heart is in it, while some people don't have a heart for GOD, just come in to warm the pews..there's really not all that many like that, but even one is too much still.
;) My friend's mom, also, FOREVER, while she was alive, would do the same thing at our church, she didn't wanna be there, she wanted to go to catholic church, and died a catholic, but no matter where, she would embarass her daughters, me, everyone., and then at home, she'd go off into singing hymns!! Go figure. She did die with a smile on her face, though. (?) Hmmm....

[ddc101]

Sister Forever hang in there.Its hard to see someone we love stuggling with such a mind destroying disease.
Tufluv,
You are talking about transferral of spirits
Here is a scripture:
Matt 12:43-45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
(KJV)

Luke 11:24-26
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
(KJV)

These things are looking for a house.If we are not living right or if we are at a weak point yes these things will oppress us and talk to us until we open up a door of entrace to them.All they have to do is convince a person that the thoughts are their thoughts.Then they in a moment of weakness act on the thoughts and voila...a legal takeover.Being a person who is manic depressive already wars the mind thing and the thought process is the very place the enemy wars the takeover is easier.Your friend really needs deliverance.Lvsis.c

[tufluv]

Hmm, I've known of those verses, in relation to someone returning to the world, once having been delivered, set free, but yes, this fits well also, and so it could be that my spirits did find a vacant home into which to dwell...she WAS already in that bipolar disorder...and a weak Apostolic., to boot.
SHe's progressively worse, her sister brought her up for a prayer petition tonight, she is ALWAYS in ill health...its her back, now, and she has a multitude of other physical ailments, but won't come to church at all anymore.
Her name is Terry, if anyone wants to lift her up in prayer, as well.
GOD BLESS EVERYONE!

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

I have a daughter who was diagnosed with 'tuberous sclerosis'. The prognosis was that she would not live past her seventh birthday. She began her medications at 10 months of age.
For the first 4 years of her life she seemed, at times, like a zombie, and would walk arouund bumping into walls and things. Whenever the family went into a restaurant, and even in church, she would began to cry and scream. She also suffered severe epileptic symptoms/convulsions.
One day I locked myself in the our bedroom with her, and started praying and began to rebuke that spirit in the Name of Jesus. My daughter just cried and screamed the more. This went on for a little over three hours. Then, suddenly, she started to shake. This was not an epileptic fit nor convulsion. It was a literal shaking. When she stopped shaking, she fell into a deep sleep.
Today, she is 14 years old, and is getting much better. The medication has been drastically reduced, and she does not need as much personal care anymore.
My wife and I are believing the Lord that she will have a normal teen life, marry, and bear us many grandchildren.
As the Israelites cried, when they saw the Lord consume the sacrifice offered by Elijah, "The Lord, He is God!"

Brother Villa

[Faithchild]

Tufluv, I'm curious if anyone has ever seen someone who was born retarded or insane, healed? I have a sister, Sherri, who is simple. Though Sherri is 42, she has the mind of perhaps an average six-year old. We have prayed for her for years. She is highly functional but still very dependent on my mother. Sherri is why I asked.

[survivor4christ]

I do believe that it is possible to have mental incapacities and be delivered and saved.

When the spirits of suicide and depression got ahold of me, I was in and out of psych wards, where they would constantly try to place me on meds. But I refused, asked for a Bible instead! I have had those spirits torment me, try to suffocate me with pillows, the monkey on your back syndrome....But God has delivered me!

Thanks Be to God!!!

My mom said when I was born that I was so severely premature that the doctors thought I would be slightly retarded, or slow, at the very least. My lungs were severely underdeveloped; and 33 years ago, there was not the technology and advanced medical breakthroughs available especially in rural Louisiana to care for a little black premature baby. My mom makes me laugh when she tells me that my crib was a shoebox!!! And my wardrobe was mostly consisted of babydoll clothes!

God has indeed been very, very good to me!!!

When they saw I wasn't slow, the doctors said I would have educational deficiences--I was in advanced classes for most of my educational 'career' and graduated number 9 in a class of 234!

The enemy played with my head for years, but when it was time for me to be set free...he had to let me go! A seed planted here, a watering over there. A little more watering over yonder....

Then the fruit of salvation!

My grandmother got born again acc. to Acts 2:38 within the last 10 years of her life. Her companion was an illiterate sugar cane cutter. He eventually got saved after she witnessed to him...they are in their 60's and 70's when this occurred. My grandmother would have prayer meeting three times per day in her home. Everything would be shut down. Now, b/c my maw maw's companion also had an eye problem, he could not read his mail...and could not read period. But during prayer meeting he would read the scriptures aloud everytime!!! I witnessed this a few times, when just an hour or so earlier, he had to ask for his mail to be read to him, then when it was time to read the Word during the prayer, he would read those scriptures!!!!

I am sharing this b/c I believe God can take anyone from any state or condition and redeem them!

TO God be the Glory!!!

I am a living testimony that God can indeed do anything!

Love, Sis. Wenona

[Faithchild]

I sure like to hear people braggin' on Jesus! Wonderful, Sis. Wenona! What part of Louisiana?

[survivor4christ]

I was born in Lutcher, LA. Lived in Paulina for awhile, then Convent, then Baton Rouge, Laplace....Then the Big Easy...

[Faithchild]

Sounds like you might be familiar with crawfish?

[survivor4christ]

Love and miss it horribly!

Folks up here don't no nothin' 'bout 'mudbugs!' :)

Sis. Wenona

[Faithchild]

Indiana calls'em "crawdads" or "crayfish."If I can find some I've got a bag of Zatarain's Crab Boil that I'm ready to baptize'em in!
Toss'em in the pot with hot sausage, ears of corn, and baby potatoes and boil, boil, boil! Hearing the little devils scream just whets my appetite! Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

[ddc101]

Bro.Yohe,
My friends grandpa founded a seafood place known as "Frenchies.
He served up hot Louisiana seafood.(p.s.I'm still trying to find the sea around here.)It was a laugh around there about the oysters being live when you eat them.They would say you could hear them screaming all the way down!!!sis.c

[tufluv]

Ya'll are funny :laugh: :laugh:
[in a kinda 'sick' way!] them poor "sweeties from the sea".
Maybe ya'll have lingering effects of 'swamp-fever'?!! :D
I myself can't eat LIVE slimy-ish creatures, ee-ee-w-w-!

[Sandy]

are all of those crawfish any distant relation to those Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that showed up some years back?

:goof:

[Sandy]

Seriously though, do you not believe that someone that is mentally incompetent would not be judged as someone that isn't, by the Lord? Of this is inappropriate to discuss here, then please by all means delete it, but I have a question about this issue, since it has been brought up.

For instance we met and knew this fellow that I seriously believed was in love with Jesus, yet he never grew much past the toddler stage mentally, and his parents were Mormon. Yet he talked about Jesus all the time, which to me was amazing. He is no longer alive today, dieing also at a very young age because of his condition.

So in an instance such as this, do you not thinkat least maybe this kind of person would be judged the same as a child would be if that one died before being able to make a decision for Christ as well?

And maybe this might also be true about others as well, depending on the condition.

Yes, I believe God could heal them too. I am not saying He could not. But this did not happen with that boy, as well as many others too.

[survivor4christ]

Sis. Sandy:

Being His ways are much higher than my ways, or any of our ways, I do not feel qualified to answer how God judges a person.

Only God knows the intents of the heart, the motives of a person. Only God really knows....

That is a tough one....

JMHO, Sis. Wenona

[tufluv]

Well I have to believe that if a person in their mind is as a child, that might be even better!!
Didn't Jesus say that all "must come to him as a little child"?
Okay, so maybe that does not completely apply, but from what I heard hear, this child was obviously in love with Jesus, and had some kind of relationship with HIM, thats more than you find with many of today's kids!! amen? :D
So-o, as Sis wenona, said, we can't be in GOD's shoes and judge for sure, but GOD also left us HIS word, parables, etc., to at least have a good idea as to how HE is, the bible allows us a chance to get to know GOD, and some of HIS ways, maybe all we need to know at present.
Many areas are HIS alone, this is one I'm sure, I've just always wondered about it., for I feel these individuals had little choice in their states.
OR, could it be like some have said, the sins of the parents carry down to their children? Hmmm....I know GOD forgave me, delivered me, and my children were also saved, so GLORY TO GOD, for HIS mercy, that endures forever, HE is merciful above all.

[Sandy]

But we all inherit the sins of our fathers, which is why we all need the Savior to begin with.

But is a child that goes before their time, or in this case one with the mind of a child held accountable for this inheritance. It really does not say entirely. But it does suggest this to be true even though all are guilty according to Ex. 34:7 and Num. 14:18 that speaks of this generational curse which I believe we all are born into because of what Rm. 3:23 says. Apparently even if both of our parents are in Christ, and therefore the children coming under what is written in 1st Cor. 7:14. They still need the Savior as well when the time comes for them to begin to understand these things, the Lord drawing them into obeying Acts 2:38.

I believe they are forgiven, and therefore do go to be with the Lord personally. But true, it does not say.

But as my husband tells me, he is postive God isn't going to have me sitting at the pearly gates doing the judging, as I would let anybody in that showed some remorse, ending up feeling sorry for them.

[UNITY]

I don't have the scripture in front of me while I am here at work,

but I do believe scripture declares that God is a preserver of the

simple.

Unity.

[Faithchild]

I think it has a lot to do with generational sin and how serious God is about it. I believe it's the sin nature of our forefathers that is passed down. Otherwise the literal unforgiven sins of others would send us to Hell. "Each man worketh out his own salvaltion, etc." If it IS the actual sins and retardation is the result of it, then that simple person would have no chance at all because he could never be made aware of his sin-nature. I know that there are degrees of retardation and I, too, have seen retarded people receive the Holy Ghost. I think that all WE can do is present the gospel, encourage them to obey it, and trust in a fair-minded and loving God.

[Beth Wills]

I often wondered this because I have a cousin that is 37 yrs old but has a mind of a 6 yr old. I have often wondered if they understand the plan of salvation.
When we are at church he claps with the singing but when the preaching comes he gets sleepy and at altar call he goes up to the front because of his dad.
I personally fill like he doesn't care about salvation and other things like playstation games and the Washington Redskins are his thing.

What do you think?