Easter/Ishtar/Tammuz

[ddc101]

Okay I figure you were all waiting for this.So here it is.

The Pagan Origin Of Easter


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Easter is a day that is honered by nearly all of contemporary Christianity and is used to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The holiday often involves a church service at sunrise, a feast which includes an "Easter Ham", decorated eggs and stories about rabbits.

Those who love truth learn to ask questions, and many questions must be asked regarding the holiday of Easter.

Is it truly the day when Jesus arose from the dead? Where did all of the strange customs come from, which have nothing to do with the resurrection of our Saviour?

The purpose of this tract is to help answer those questions, and to help those who seek truth to draw their own conclusions.

The first thing we must understand is that professing Christians were not the only ones who celebrated a festival called "Easter."

"Ishtar", which is pronounced "Easter" was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called "Tammuz", who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god.

In those ancient times, there was a man named Nimrod, who was the grandson of one of Noah's son named Ham.

Ham had a son named Cush who married a woman named Semiramis.Cush and Semiramis then had a son named him "Nimrod."

After the death of his father, Nimrod married his own mother and became a powerful King.

The Bible tells of of this man, Nimrod, in Genesis 10:8-10 as follows: "And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad,and Calneh, in the land of Shinar."

Nimrod became a god-man to the people and Semiramis, his wife and mother, became the powerful Queen of ancient Babylon.

Nimrod was eventually killed by an enemy, and his body was cut in pieces and sent to various parts of his kingdom.

Semiramis had all of the parts gathered, except for one part that could not be found.

That missing part was his reproductive organ. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod could not come back to life without it and told the people of Babylon that Nimrod had ascended to the sun and was now to be called "Baal", the sun god.

Queen Semiramis also proclaimed that Baal would be present on earth in the form of a flame, whether candle or lamp, when used in worship.

Semiramis was creating a mystery religion, and with the help of Satan, she set herself up as a goddess.

Semiramis claimed that she was immaculately conceived.

She taught that the moon was a goddess that went through a 28 day cycle and ovulated when full.

She further claimed that she came down from the moon in a giant moon egg that fell into the Euphrates River.

This was to have happened at the time of the first full moon after the spring equinox.

Semiramis became known as "Ishtar" which is pronounced "Easter", and her moon egg became known as "Ishtar's" egg."

Ishtar soon became pregnant and claimed that it was the rays of the sun-god Baal that caused her to conceive.

The son that she brought forth was named Tammuz.

Tammuz was noted to be especially fond of rabbits, and they became sacred in the ancient religion, because Tammuz was believed to be the son of the sun-god, Baal. Tammuz, like his supposed father, became a hunter.

The day came when Tammuz was killed by a wild pig.

Queen Ishtar told the people that Tammuz was now ascended to his father, Baal, and that the two of them would be with the worshippers in the sacred candle or lamp flame as Father, Son and Spirit.

Ishtar, who was now worshipped as the "Mother of God and Queen of Heaven", continued to build her mystery religion.

The queen told the worshippers that when Tammuz was killed by the wild pig, some of his blood fell on the stump of an evergreen tree, and the stump grew into a full new tree overnight. This made the evergreen tree sacred by the blood of Tammuz.

She also proclaimed a forty day period of time of sorrow each year prior to the anniversary of the death of Tammuz.

During this time, no meat was to be eaten.

Worshippers were to meditate upon the sacred mysteries of Baal and Tammuz, and to make the sign of the "T" in front of their hearts as they worshipped.

They also ate sacred cakes with the marking of a "T" or cross on the top.

Every year, on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox, a celebration was made.

It was Ishtar's Sunday and was celebrated with rabbits and eggs.

Ishtar also proclaimed that because Tammuz was killed by a pig, that a pig must be eaten on that Sunday.

By now, the readers of this tract should have made the connection that paganism has infiltrated the contemporary "Christian" churches, and further study indicates that this paganism came in by way of the Roman Catholic System.

The truth is that Easter has nothing whatsoever to do with the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We also know that Easter can be as much as three weeks away from the Passover, because the pagan holiday is always set as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox.

Some have wondered why the word "Easter" is in the the King James Bible.

It is because Acts, chapter 12, tells us that it was the evil King Herod, who was planning to celebrate Easter, and not the Christians.

The true Passover and pagan Easter sometimes coincide, but in some years, they are a great distance apart.

So much more could be said, and we have much more information for you, if you are a seeker of the truth.

We know that the Bible tells us in John 4:24, "God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

The truth is that the forty days of Lent, eggs, rabbits,hot cross buns and the Easter ham have everything to do with the ancient pagan religion of Mystery Babylon.These are all antichrist activities!

Satan is a master deceiver, and has filled the lives of well-meaning, professing Christians with idolatry.

These things bring the wrath of God upon children of disobedience, who try to make pagan customs of Baal worship Christian.

You must answer for your activities and for what you teach your children.

These customs of Easter honor Baal, who is also Satan, and is still worshipped as the "Rising Sun" and his house is the "House of the Rising Sun."

How many churches have "sunrise services" on Ishtar's day and face the rising sun in the East?

How many will use colored eggs and rabbit stories, as they did in ancient Babylon.

These things are no joke, any more than Judgement day is a joke.

I pray to God that this tract will cause you to search for more truth.

We will be glad to help you by providing more information and by praying for you.

These are the last days, and it is time to repent, come out and be separate.

David J. Meyer

Last Trumpet Ministries International
PO Box 806
Beaver Dam, WI 53916

[tufluv]

Wow! Totally excellent info. I have known much of this for a while, now...and I do not like most holidays anymore, as I mentioned once way back in the archives. Its kinda depressing that WE once in ignorance, thought these activities to be okay, and fun, cause for celebration!
Suggestions on how to counter this would be a good idea, I think.
I remember back when I was in the Baptist church, they put on a play that seemed ohsoreal complete with the same person each year portraying Jesus, came in carrying the cross, followed by jesters, screaming at him, it was vivid! and each year the play grew more, more props added, a tomb with smoke, etc., and it finally moved into a grander production at our convention center, and was done at another pagan holiday time, christmas!
Back then I enjoyed it, the play had now added more scenes to it, modern depictions of singing carols, shopping, etc., it was well done. (little did I know then!)
But as for Easter now, I don't even want to participate, yet, we are having the sunrise service, and the LORD's supper right after.
I am planning to go, I never want to miss out of the LORD's supper, its done not very often. You know as outreach to visitors, these plays are often done as well, in smaller versions even in Apostolic churches.
This same Tammuz's birthday is celebrated at christmas by decorating an evergreen tree, and hanging little "son gods" on them, (the christmas round spheres some glitter all colors, and at eastertime, as eggs :eek: !. I stopped celebrating in any way, this other holiday as well, for several years now.

[ddc101]

We always have communion on passover.People are so used to going to church on Ishtar sunday that it is a good outreach time without the compromise.We use this to tell the story again...
Oh won't you tell me the story of Jesus
Write on my heart every word.
The things of this world grow strangly dim
in the light of his glory and grace.........
lv sis.c

[In His Service]

Praise the Lord,
It warms my heart to see others who have let go of the things associated with Idols in our Apostolic Churches!!!!! To God be the Glory!!!!

I have found that so many will read info like the above and discuss it and then say they just like the happy memories that they have as a kid and want to have those for thier children too. A area minister, UPC, and I had an email discussion some time ago. It was a pleasent one until the last email to me. This discussion was about celebrating on Dec. 25th. He said that he knew all about the origin of the holiday, all the pagan idol worship, but he had the fond memories as a child and want his children to have those memories. I then simply asked him how him knowing the origin and that God disapproves of it, could teach his children something he knows is false and ungodly. Just a question. It angered him because he knew he was making a decision to follow some other things than the teaching of Jesus Christ. He did not want to discuss anything further.

Many UPC ALJC, PAW etc.. church partake in these holidays because everyone else does. What happened to come out from among them and be ye seperate as saith the Lord????

There is such liberty in finding the truths of these holidays and leaving them behind.

To those that still partake, will you not leave the idols that follow you behind and be free!!!!

Prayers for you and yours
Bro. timothy

[ddc101]

Easter Traditions:
These have been derived primarily from Pagan traditions at Easter time:

Hot Cross Buns: At the feast of Eostre, the Saxon fertility Goddess, an ox was sacrificed. The ox's horns became a symbol for the feast. They were carved into the ritual bread. Thus originated "hot cross buns". The word "buns" is derived from the Saxon word "boun" which means "sacred ox." Later, the symbol of a symmetrical cross was used to decorate the buns; the cross represented the moon, the heavenly body associated with the Goddess, and its four quarters.
Easter Rabbit and Eggs: The symbols of the Norse Goddess Ostara were the hare and the egg. Both represented fertility. From these, we have inherited the customs and symbols of the Easter egg and Easter rabbit. Dyed eggs also formed part of the rituals of the Babylonian mystery religions. Eggs "were sacred to many ancient civilizations and formed an integral part of religious ceremonies in Egypt and the Orient. Dyed eggs were hung in Egyptian temples, and the egg was regarded as the emblem of regenerative life proceeding from the mouth of the great Egyptian god." 2
Easter Lilies: "The so-called 'Easter lily' has long been revered by pagans of various lands as a holy symbol associated with the reproductive organs. It was considered a phallic symbol!" 3
Easter Sunrise Service: This custom can be traced back to the ancient Pagan custom of welcoming the sun God at the vernal equinox - when daytime is about to exceed the length of the nighttime. It was a time to "celebrate the return of life and reproduction to animal and plant life as well." 4 Worship of the Sun God at sunrise may be the religious ritual condemned by Jehovah as recorded in:

Ezekiel 8:16-18: "...behold, at the door of the temple of Jehovah, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of Jehovah, and their faces toward the east; and they were worshipping the sun toward the east. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen (this), O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have turned again to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in wrath; mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity; and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them." (ASV)

Easter Candles: These are sometimes lit in churches on the eve of Easter Sunday. Some commentators believe that these can be directly linked to the Pagan customs of lighting bonfires at this time of year to welcome the rebirth/resurrection of the sun God.

[ddc101]

Bro.Tim,
I used to celebrate these things as I did not know better.Even though others told me I did not listen until Jesus himself began ot deal with me on these issues.So I try not to judge the practices of another.I just make sure I am walking in the light that Jesus has shown me personally to be truth.lv sis.c

[tufluv]

You know, I NEVER had any idea anything we did was wrong, and noone ever said anything-had anyone said anything, I MIGHT have gone and researched for myself, thats how I am, at least now, but back then, it being such a large part of normal, everybody does it kinda thing, it may not have had much impact.
Things like I KNEW that alcohol is bad for you, but did it anyway., since everyone-does-it, it MUST be alright. :eek:
And as for even showing people this tract, on Easter, I think that at the very least, it plainly states a fact., and people having or near to having the HolyGhost, will be convicted of this, to a certain degree, hopefully. I have sent my son and his wife a copy of this info submitted on this thread. It may not stop them yet, and thats okay, but eventually, as they grow in the spirit, and they are going to church regularly and receiving home bible studies, it WILL make a difference, it will "sink" in!
It takes much conviction, no compromise, to STOP these pagan practices, and there's many more! The light that the LORD shows me is the same light HE can show them, and many others!
LIGHT reveals TRUTH, and TRUTH never changes!
HALLELUYAH! GLORY TO GOD!

[drummerboy_dave]

I knew we'd get this thread.

So, will my literal friends, please tell me; how does going to church services 2 or 3 times on Sunday, coincide with the commandment of keeping the sabbath day holy? I used to work 6 days a week [Mon - Sat]. Spending 6 hours in church on Sunday, certainly doesn't give one, much "rest". Yet, if one develops a pattern of missing certain services, thier walk with God immediately gets called into question, by the pastor.

One thing is for sure. I have found that it is much easier to please God, than it is to please man.

[dllong]

The "rest" is the Holy Ghost. So I am told...

Dave

[dllong]

I celebrate Passover not "Easter"

Jesus is my Passover

Dave

[foreverblessed]

:grumble: Here they go again, they are after my bunny and eggs...........;)

And for those that don't know me, I believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Clause, Christmas trees along with the Easter Bunny, and all those pagan holidays, cause I want too! You all just keep praying for me! Maybe someday I will grow up. :D

Please remember I am just messin' with ya....

[In His Service]

Blessed,
Please, this is not a jab. But there comes a time to put away childish things, :~) and me thinks you is old enough to do it!!! LOL

Might I ask how it is that you have have the Holy Ghost, and know scripture but can not feel convicted about partaking in things that God call an abomination?

Many people want to hold on to sin, and this is sin brothers and sister, putting idols and thier ways and worship before the Word of God. I didn't know all about the holidays several, several years ago. The first time I heard and begin to read and study the Holy Ghost immediately convicted me for it is so plain. Why is it that many people push that conviction away to fit in with the World on holidays but will not cut thier hair, smoke, drink, cuss??

Maybe blessed can share with me, how she reads the truths and pushes them aside,

i care for your soul sister that is why I want you to really take this seriously. You have read the info, and you can't tell God you never knew about it. Awake!!!!
Bro. Timothy

[searching]

Might I ask how it is that you have have the Holy Ghost, and know scripture but can not feel convicted about partaking in things that God call an abomination?


I know you were asking Forever that question, but you should ask the better part of the UPC that one, including big churches like Mangun's and Haney's. Mangun's church puts on huge dramas every year for the holidays, and I know several churches personally who even decorate the church in a Christmas theme. If this will send someone to hell, then God may have a hard time getting His 144,000 people together. Ok, that last part was a joke, but indeed if it sends us to hell, then MOST of the Apostolics are headed there right now, and for some strange reason their Holy Ghost isn't leading them into all truth as it has done you.

Me...

[searching]

Also, and I'm saying this just once for Tim's benefit, I do not worship trees or the Easter bunny or Santa or Barney. I celebrate Christmas and Easter according to how my Lord would have me celebrate His birth. We give gifts as the wise men gave gifts. We gather together to thank God for having what we have. My niece makes a cake for Jesus and puts a candle on it for her kids to blow out. I decorate with ornaments that my children have made, and even ones that I made when I was a child. Much, much more that I don't care to get into, having been there, done that, don't care to go there again.

BTW Bro. Tim, I notice that you have a tie on in that picture. Seems that the Holy Ghost hasn't convicted you of that yet!! LOL!

Me...

[In His Service]

Dear Searching,
I have no trouble understanding that even Mangum's Church and Haney's church will not be counted as part of "The Church" if they partake in pagan ways!!!!

You say you celebrate Easter and Christmas as the Lod would have you do so. You give gifts like the wise men. Seems they didn't do that on his birthday.You gather on a day what has been a set aside for a pagan god's birthday and pretend it is Jesus's birthday?
Do you set up a tree for the 25th? Shall we look at the Word of God for that one?

Sister how long will you resist the truth,
Bro. Timothy

Sister I love you and your soul and you are chosing the wrong ways if you partake because everyone else does it.

Pretty heavy stuff, but still what it takes to be a seperated and holy people before God.

[ddc101]

I want to say that not all churches that are a part of the UPC
celebrate catholic holidays.when I first got saved Bro.Eldrige Anselmi was my pastor and he taught the truth and we did not celebrate catholic holidays.Also a few yeare ago Bro.James Randall who is the assist.chairman for La.Dist AlJC was my pastor and he teaches against celebrating catholic holidays.Its not the organizations.Its the pastor.
My husband grew up in a large UPC church and Bro.D.L.Welch was his pastor for years.I heard him myself tell the church that these holidays had pagan origins.Whether they celebrated or not was left up to the individual.
I will not be celebrating Easter in the pagan sense.But considering that this is one of those sundays when the Spiritually Dead look to go to church..we will have a resurrection service.
As for those who come with the well if you don't celebrate go ahead and cut out birthdays and neckties etc.Get a grip.If you don't feel convicted then keep it to yourself.I started this thread as an information source.
Bro.Tim...if you do it since you know better then to you it is sin.
To all others....pray about it.lv sis.C

[ddc101]

Please refrain from demeaning anothers convictions.
I believe we can discuss and post information that does not
personally attack another person
Bro.Timothy,
Sis.Forever was just kidding.You took her post in the wrong light.
Say you are sorry :)
Also go and read the introductory threads posted by Bro.Atkinson
about personal things.I think you are a great addition to this cafe
so keep on posting it just takes awhile to get used to everyone.

Sis.Searching,
No turning this into a standards thread.Just go and see what you can find historically.Just find something on Easter and get off the christmas thread.If you want to talk christmas go and dig it out of the archives.We had a dandy of a time on that one.

[witness4jesus]

Sis Cooper, while I agree with you that Easter is of pagan origin, and I do not celebrate it [I celebrate the Lord's Supper instead], some of the things you said do not have evidence.

Nowhere does it say that Cush married Semiramis, or that Nimrod married Semiramis.

These were suggested by Hislop in his work, the Two Babylons, which I think has a lot of good information. But I think we need to be careful about what is brought out by the Bible, and what is not. Hislop suggested that Shem killed Nimrod.

When speaking about people in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament, I think we need to make sure that we have evidence of those things. Nimrod was the first king of Babylon, this is true, but I get a little nervous about accepting as fact that he was married to Semiramis, or the story of his death, given that a lot of it is legend.

sis pam

[ddc101]

Sister Pam,
Go back to the bottom of the post I first posted and see who wrote it.I just listed the information.If you have similar information
please post it.It would be a blessing to us all.Lv sis.c:)

[ddc101]

Bro.Long,
The Lords supper was infact the day before Passover.On passover he was the paschal lamb.We celebrate communion.But we actually do it on the day the Jews celebrate Passover.lv sis.c

[In His Service]

Sis. C,
Ok so just ignore those that are kidding all the time in thier post. Don't pay them any mind, :~) Ok, I will do that, LOL!!!

To be truthful I don't think sister forever is just kidding. I believe she is covering her rejection of ideas and biblical teachings with humor. I have seen it on boards many times.

If I offended her with my manner of postings I apologize and ask her to tell me what part offended her and I will speak of that with her. As to the truths posted and that those who would hold those truths don't please God, sorry I can't do that, truth is truth and God still tells us to stand on truth.

It is time the church wakes up and loves people enough to tell them the truth about everything even if it hurts their feelings. When we do it in Love and with the Word it will be God they are getting mad at and not us.

Truth is truth and error is error. If apostolics partake they are wrong according to the Word of God. As to the holidays truthfully there is only a small percentage that do not know that the days are not what they appear to be. That everything associated with them have nothing to do with the Word of God. We just go with the flow to not stand out and be thought of as crazy by the World. All christians celebrate the holidays right? Not those who follow the Word of God. Just the truth.
Bro. Timothy

[ddc101]

We need to share the truth in love.

Eph 4:15
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
(KJV)

Its not the content that bothers me.Its the presentation.Any hungry soul will eat out of a garbage can but it would be so nice to see them seated at a nice table and waited on by the Lords Servants and served wonderful spiritual things in an appealing manner.
People will receive things when they are treated like you would want to be treated if you were in their shoes.
Honestly I was in need of a spiritual overhaul not too very long ago.I had such a degree of stress on me that if someone would have tried to push it on me I would not have been in shape to accept it.God had to deal with me on it.We need the Spirit and the Word.The letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life...lv sis.c

[ThirdGeneration]

In His Service- Finally, I have met someone at the Cafe who's self righteousness permeates their posts. That is unusual here.

There have been many posters I have vehemently disagreed with; but none I did not respect until now. The stench coming from your posts is putrid. Your condensending attitude reeks.

Btw- Paul told the church it was ok to eat meat that had been offered to idols. The pagen origin was a non-issue to those that were mature in Christ. Read the 14th chapter of Romans.

Note that even though Paul said it was ok to be a vegetarian and taught in the 7th chapter of 1 Corinthians that it might not be a great idea to marry; he nevertheless called teaching that IMPOSED such convictions on others the "doctrines of devils" (1 Tim 4:1-3).

[In His Service]

Sister 3rd,

Why is truth spoken in love condensending? I do not look down upon anyone sister. I look towards them in hopes of helping them see more and more truth. I post no differently than any other of the posters who have the desire for Truth to reign in the church. My post make you angry, I must assume. I do not want them to make you angry, to make you think, yes.

What has made you not respect me? What in my post has made you look down upon me?

I do not impose any doctrines on anyone. God imposes his Word on those that are called his church. Many people don't like everything the Word says. Believing Acts 2:38 seems easy to some when that is the only step they have to take. The Holy Ghost is given to lead and guide us into all truth. These areas we are dicussing is part of that, "All Truth".

Why does telling someone that according to the Word of God what they are believing or taking part in is wrong? That is what I and others are doing in our post. Are we to see someone heading over a cliff and not try to stop them? Is that love for thier soul? No! Love reachs out to them, might even grab them strongly in love and jerk them back. If infront of a speeding car we might shove them forward. Because we care we do what is needed. The grab or shove might make them fall and skin a knee. If they look back and see that we where trying to help, then they are thankful. If they just get mad about the skinned knee, then they don't see the love that tried to save them.

Sister, When I say that I love someone and will pray for them, I mean it. Even when they are mad at me, or mad at truth that is posted. I love them.

The internet is a non personal venue. You can not see the concern in my eyes when I post to others. You can not look through your monitor and see that there is no malice in my heart or eyes when posting. Only care for those that are to be Called by His Name. The apostles many times I am sure made people upset when they told them things that where different than they had heard before. When they told them they must stop doing what the World partook in. Human nature doesn't change from generation to genereation. Only through the Holy Ghost can we hope to change our manner and person.

sister I do love you and that is a fact,
Bro. timothy

[servant]

:angel:

I think I need to go in business selling halo polish. I could make a fortune!!!

Serv :)

[Truthseeker]

[COLOR=red]Well Sister Cooper you beat me to it. :) Maybe I can start the x-mass thread.

I will say I agree with Sister Cooper that we must be careful on how we present this to others or explain our stand against these pagan practices.

I think for the most part there is a spirit behind these holidays. It's a spirit people enjoy so it's hard for them to let it go and will defend it's practice to the end refusing to see it as a pagan holiday.

The devil is so slick he can get someone to worship something without the person even knowing their worshipping it.
We don't have to literally bow to something to worship it.

Jesus spoke of worship in spirit and truth not bowing or running the aisles.

I believe paganism is rooted in the spirit world in worship of idols or spirits. How do these pagans do this? By customs that symbolize spiritual truths(to them).

My question has been, if something starts in paganism can it end christian?

I know some might say "it's been redeemed to Christ" or as I heard one say about justifying celebrating x-mas
"the blood is stronger then that" Another words these customs will be covered by the blood.

I don't believe the blood of Jesus saves nor redeems anything of the first Adam. We got redeemed people holding unto unredeemable customs.


Would any on this board bring a statue of buddha in there house? I think not, but why would it be wrong as long as you don't bow to it?

BTW Why is it that the birth of Christ has to be celebrated on dec 25 the same day the pagans use trees, gifts, lights and so on to celebrate the birth of the sun god? and why the same customs? Why is it, if we were to say let's pick another day to celebrate his birth with different customs then paganism it would lose it's appeal to celebrate his birth??????

My answer, the x-mass spirit is a powerful force. When we find something spiritually enjoyable it's hard to let go.



Also the same question could be asked about easter customs. Why would celebrating the ressurection on another day would lose it's appeal?
YEP! it's a spirit.

[Truthseeker]

Third states:

Btw- Paul told the church it was ok to eat meat that had been offered to idols. The pagen origin was a non-issue to those that were mature in Christ. Read the 14th chapter of Romans.

Note that even though Paul said it was ok to be a vegetarian and taught in the 7th chapter of 1 Corinthians that it might not be a great idea to marry; he nevertheless called teaching that IMPOSED such convictions on others the "doctrines of devils" (1 Tim 4:1-3).


This would be good if we were talking about food. yes they could eat food offered to idols, but could they join them in offering the food to idols?

So yes i eat x-mass cookings on my job maybe, but I'm not making none at home. :)

[ThirdGeneration]

In His Service- There is not a human being whose fingertips ever post, that Christ did not die for.

I do not think anyone has the right to slaughter His sheep with their perception of the what the Word of God teaches.

Even if you were right about the things you posted (which I doubt that you always are) it isn't wise, prudent, or beneficial to post in a way that causes people to spit out what you post. That is not love; it is ignorance and perhaps malice.

You would not grind up life-sustaining food, spit on and roll it in the mud before giving it to a starving individual. Why treat those that you claim to love with such contempt? It doesn't fly.

[light]

Originally posted by ddc101
Bro.Long,
The Lords supper was infact the day before Passover.On passover he was the paschal lamb.We celebrate communion.But we actually do it on the day the Jews celebrate Passover.lv sis.c

[Mat 26:17] Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

[Mat 26:18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

[Mat 26:19] And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

[Mat 26:20] Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.

Notice the Jews didn't want to take him on the feast day.

[Mark 14:1] After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

[Mark 14:2] But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.

[Luke 22:7] Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

[Luke 22:8] And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

[Truthseeker]

Third

are you OK?

[truemessianic]

I am gonna add my 2 cents worth on this one.
I do not celebrate Easter because it is indeed a pagan holiday. There is nothing Christian about an overgrown rabbit hopping from house to house giving candy to little kids. We may go to special services on this day, but I believe if we have to have a special day to remember the Resurrection, then our faith is indeed in vain. Everyday should be a day of remembrance of our new life in Christ through the Resurrection.

[BroDane]

I am gonna put my sorta-sarcastic-funny-tongue-in-cheek 1&3/4 cents worth IN!!!

And here it is: This..and many other posts that NEVER END!! (This is the post that never ends..lalalala!!)

Can be found in the OLD Archives.....

Please read em as I am tired of seeing yall KICK-THE-OLD-DEAD-HORSE!!! :realmad:

( I guess I should shut my eyes then....)

Sigh........LOL :yeah:

[ThirdGeneration]

Truthseeker- Why do you ask?

This is not the only thread that In His Service has attacked the character of other posters. I am not the only poster that asked him to stop (before I posted to him tonight).

I don't believe in slaughtering God's sheep. I know that you do not either.

[truemessianic]

Hold on, BroDane.
I'll chip in the extra 1/4 cent for the full two cents worth!!!

[In His Service]

Dear Sister Third,
Christ died that all might have life and have it more abundently!!! Even all of us that use the internet!! :~)

I prayerfully went back over all my post on this thread and re read them, trying to see where I might have led anyone to believe in slaughtering God's sheep. We must though remember that Christ in his love for his sheep spoke of the need on occasion to break the leg of a straying lamb to keep them in the fold and keep them safe. Sometimes truths when freshly looked upon do wound our fleshly thoughts and ideas. I know that this has happened to me time and time again when God dealt with me on some issue, like even this one of the holidays. The first mouth full to take and chew and swallow was very bitter. But once I swallowed it, it was like a honey comb!!!!

Sister I encourage you to study this issue. Ask questions, prove us wrong in our thoughts of truth. If I am wrong, the Good Lord, knows I have went through to much in my life already to loose out on my promise.

Don't spit it out. Chew it for a while. Don't get mad at me, just because we disagree. Prove me wrong sister in any area that you find the Word of God proving me wrong. I got upset many times at people who where saying things different than I believed. My old mind didn't like for me to be wrong. Some says are hard to understand, some are hard to swallow, but by the Word let every thing be established. Bitter but needed, give it to me Lord and let me see that the one putting it on my plate for me, loved me enough to share.

Prayers for you and yours,
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

Bro, Dane,

Might I sing, "Go to Sleep, Go to sleep" LOL LOL Your eyes are getting very heavy.

Some have not dicussed this with the others here before. Not really any issue that we might dicuss that has not been dicussed somewhere before. Nothing new under the sun you know, :~)

It is still important, so I guess that is why many still reach out and discuss it with others,

Have a great evening,
Bro. Timothy

[ddc101]

Bro.Long,
Heres the scoop.Think Jewish...I know you have it in you..hehehe

Luke 22:1-23
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
23 And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
(KJV)

The Passover lamb was to be kept up until the 14th day of Nisen which was the day of preparation.It was killed on the afternoon of the 14th before sundown and eaten after sundown before midnight which would have been on the 15th.The seven days of unleaven bread begin after sundown on the 14th on the 15th and coincides with the actual evening of the passover.
Jesus and the apostles borrowed an upper room on the 13th of Nissan during the dayu, and that evening which after sundown would be the 14th of Nissan he ate with them the New Christian Passover...or communion supper...Jesusu told the apostles he desired to eat with them the old and new Passover before he suffered, knowing he would be in the grave when the old Passover would be celebrated the next evening on the 15th.
I had to search long and hard for this Dave as its been along time since I studied it(about two years).lv sis.c

[ThirdGeneration]

In His Service- Actually, I do not recall where Christ said that we should occasionally break the legs of straying sheep to keep them in the fold. Feel free to enlighten me.

Brother, I don't mind you posting your interpretation of the Word of God at all. That is what is done on this board everyday and we love it. We all gain by carefully considering the view points of others as it pertains to the Word of God.

Rather, my objection is to the style in which you dish it out and the arrogance with which you proclaim that you and the few enlightened others that agree with you are the true and faithful followers of Christ. (My interpretation of your posts).

That attitude only poisons the board, makes many uncomfortable and turns people away from even hearing what you might have otherwise been able to point out.....

[ddc101]

Just a gentle reminder:
P.S.You can find this on the first thread about posting on the cafe.
We do not allow any rebuking, hatefulness, name calling, or verbal attacks by any person or group of people, toward any person or group of people. This administration knows that God's word allows for rebuking under certain conditions, but because of the lack of understanding by some, as well as the differing views by a multitude of readers here, and for the sake of peace, we will not permit it under any circumstances. If you feel that a rebuke is in order please send and e-mail to the moderator notifying them of the situation and post(s) in question allowing the moderator to mediate the situation.

[foreverblessed]

Inhisservice,

I was just teasing. Bro. Rob told me back at Christmas to wait until Easter, he was coming after my Easter bunny. Even then, I was just joking with him. I could care less about an Easter bunny.
I do attend special services at my church on Sunday, we usually have a little more special singing than usual and the theme of the service is about the resurection. We usually have a big crowd. What's the big deal? When I am able, I purchase new spring dresses for the girls, why? Oh, just tradition, I got new clothes for Easter growing up.

I don't believe that it is a sin to set aside special days to remember the birth of our savior or his resurection. I am sorry that you feel I am not ready for heaven because I partake of these things. I would never consider ever telling anyone they were not going to heaven because they didn't have the same convictions about things as I do. To me it is a unwise thing to do, and shows ignorance.

Your attitude does stink, and who are you to judge me? I had a preacher friend tell me that I wasn't going to heaven because I don't take of communion either! Maybe I will go down to St. Michaels and make sure I partake of communion some Sat or Sun, I just don't want to be lost now do I?? (by the way, I was being sarcastic) :)

How about we just stick to salvation being Act 2:38, and let God convict me or others on anything else.

This same friend has the same self righteous spirit as you, and who put me in hell over communion, is the brother of a minister who burned a large Easter Bunny on their church lawn on Easter Sunday.

The city thought the church was wacko, and they lost every member that wasn't related.
You know in all their fervor of showing their city their beliefs on Easter, they forgot to obey the laws of the land, and the fire dept. and police showed up to put out the illigal fire.

My friend now pastors that church, (his brother left) and he still doesn't have many to pastor. On the bright side, the church is getting larger, they just keep having kids, (they don't believe in birth control either) last I knew they had 6 girls :).

I love this certain family, and I traveled over 10 hours to attend the fathers funeral, ended up in their hospital for two days sick, got a bug, but I don't regret going and giving respect and support for a great man of God and his good family. I however think they are a little over zealous on certain issues. And that is also how I feel about you.

These debates are not new to me. I played with dolls underneath the dining room table as a small child and listened to my father and Bro. Allen Cayten debate and would go round and round and round on these subjects everytime they came to stay with us. These two ministers never did convince the other of their beliefs, but I have no doubt that they both made it to heaven when they passed on.

I did make light of the subject, and I am sorry Ddc, I didn't mean to disrespect you.
I have however heard more than I ever want to about it all. I don't believe I will ever change my views unless God just whacks me over the head with it, and he has been known to get my attention on things, so don't laugh about that statement, I am serious!
I personally feel we have more important things to study and concentrate our efforts on that have more meaning.

[In His Service]

Dear Third,
Please forgive me. In my haste of posting earlier I combined my studying of shepherds and how they tended their sheep, the instance of breaking a leg they know will soon heal to keep the lamb from straying and stated it as the Lord's Words.

The study of how a sheperd would do as I stated and then carry them where they where traveling and just let them down when not moving is a great inlightenment. One that many in that day no doubt perfectly understood, for many tended sheep or knew of the practices.

Again forgive my mispost.
Bro. Timothy

[ddc101]

Whew! its getting alot clearer in here.Finally the fog has lifted.
Forever, I knew that you were funning.lv sis.c

[ddc101]

JELLY BEAN
The exact origins of the jelly bean are lost in time, and only a part of its history is known. Most experts believe the jelly center is a descendent of a Mid-Eastern confection known as Turkish Delight that dates back to Biblical times.
The shell coating is an offspring of a process called panning, first invented in 17th century France to make Jordan Almonds. The panning process, while done primarily by machine today, has remained essentially the same for the last 300 years. The French began by rocking almonds in a bowl filled with sugar and syrup until the almonds were coated with a candy shell. Today, large rotating pans do the heavy work, while master confectioners apply their true art in adding the ingredients to create just the right shell.
Somehow the two processes made their way to America. Jelly beans quickly earned a place among the many glass jars of "penny candy" in general stores where they were sold by weight and taken home in paperbags. It wasn't until the 1930's, however, that jelly beans became a part of Easter traditions.
This is a sure fire winner as much as we all love to talk food.:)
sis.c

[ddc101]

I'm on a food kick okay!!!!
The Easter egg is venerable indeed. While the gaily colored cardboard ones and rich chocolate ones that we enjoy are quite recent in origin, the real egg, decorated with colors or gilt, has been acknowledged as a symbol of continuing life and resurrection since pre-Christian spring celebrations. Given as gifts by the ancient Greeks, Persians, and Chinese at their spring festivals, the egg also appears in pagan mythology, where we read of the Sun-Bird being hatched from the World Egg. in some pagan customs, the Heaven and Earth were thought to have been formed from two halves of an egg. As the egg was an obvious symbol to early Christians of Jesus' Resurrection, it was felt to be a most appropriate and holy part of the Eastertide celebration. Even as early as the Middle Ages, eggs were colored to be given as gifts at Easter; Edward I's accounts for 1290 include the expense of purchasing hundreds of eggs to be distributed to his household. in the 17th century, pope Paul V blessed the humble egg in a prayer to be used in England, Scotland, and Ireland: "Bless, O Lord, we beseech Thee, this Thy creature of eggs, that it may become a wholesome sustenance to Thy faithful servants, eating in thankfulness to Thee, on account of the Resurrection of Our Lord." Forbidden during the solemn fast of Lent, eggs were reintroduced on Easter Sunday, both as part of the feasting and as gifts for family, friends, and servants.

Anonymous (1913)

[In His Service]

Sister Forever,
I don't think there is a thing in the World wrong if you wanted, or anyone to set aside a day to remember Christ Birth and or is death!!!! Never have said that, never will. (Though Christ does tell us to remember his death more than his birth)

Why do it when the world does it though? After reading about the orgin of why and what is done on those days? I truly would like for you to share why those days? Is it a tradition of men? Maybe something else, but please share so that I can understand your position better.

I read where for us not to let our good be evil spoken of. We could understand that in doing something good by remembering the birth and death of Christ that we are tainting that good thought with adding pagan ways and rememberences. God's Word speaks of that, as I know you said you have heard for many years.

Sister if a person asked you point blank if they didn't obey Acts 2:38 if they where going to go to hell, what would you say?

If a catholic asked you if their praying to mary would send them to hell, what would you say?

There could be many more questions like that sister. What would your answer be?

Paul told many that where not obeying the Word of God and having the convictions that they needed that they where not right with God, Did he not?

I am sure that your brother preaches that a saint must live holy and all that is part of the outward holiness that shines the inward through. Does he not preach that if the minister from the baptist church decides to show up that day and that is what he had felt led to preach on that day? Sure he wold still preach it. Same thing here. Though what is said bothers some, it is still found in the Word of God. Not something I or others pulled out of the air. Now how can the church be of one mind and one accord and everyone believe one thing on this and one thing on that? It can not work that way sister.

We have to move beyond the milk of Acts 2:38, on to the meat, the deeper things. I don't say this to offend you, but God might be trying to show you some meat, take a bite. Chew it a while and then prove what is beings said wrong if you feel you can. As I stated, to I believe 3rd, If I am wrong please sister, or anyone show me that I am wrong. That what I see from the Word of God is wrong. I have been through to much, I suffer in my old body to much pain daily to miss out on my hope promised. SHOW ME SISTER!!!!!

Closing with this sister. Maybe you are tired of hearing about this over and over agian. Take time to consider that maybe God has been showing you it over, and over, and over, and over to help you to see it. Maybe he is trying to even now, Wack you over the head with it, :~) All you have to do to know you are right is take the truths of the days, weigh them against the Word of God and see which comes up shining as truth. The pagan origins of these celebrations and all that it entails, or the Word of God that forbids us to partake in these kinds of things.

Don't get mad at the mail man,
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

Sister C.,
That was good, thanks
Bro. timothy

[ddc101]

Check this out:
BUNNIES AT EASTER>>>A SAD STORY
Contrary to Eastertime hype, rabbits and small children aren't a good match. The exuberance of even the gentlest toddler is stressful for the sensitive rabbit.

Children like a companion they can hold, and cuddle. That's why stuffed animals are so popular. Rabbits are not passive and cuddly. They are ground-loving creatures who feel frightened and insecure when held and restrained. The result: the child loses interest, and the rabbit ends up neglected or abandoned.

Easter bunnies soon grow large and reach adolecence. If left unneutered they will chew, spray or dig. Many end up neglected or abandoned. The result? Humane organizations such as House Rabbit Society see a huge increase in the number of abandoned rabbits after Easter. Help us stop this yearly cycle by educating yourself and others!

Know the Facts.

Rabbits are not "low-maintenance" pets, and are a poor choice as a pet for children.
They have a lifespan of 10 years and require as much work as a dog or cat.
Your home must be bunny-proofed, or Thumper will chew cords and furniture.
Rabbits must be neutered or they will mark your house with feces and urine.
They should live indoors, as members of the family.

Clearly, rabbits aren't for everyone. Are you a gentle adult living in a quiet household? If you think you're someone who would enjoy sharing life with a rabbit, please visit your local rabbit-rescue group.

[jbenjesus]

This is actually regarding your first post:

Have you verified that information. I remember reading this story origin, but it did not have to do with Easter.

I had to do with Mythra and the origin of that religion and their beliefs.

Have you checked it out???

[John Atkinson]

We pay so much attention to easter here in Norwich that I am not even sure when it is.

But nonetheless I will take up my traditional stance:

Worship is based on intent. I don't fool with the eggs, rabbits, etc. But I don't believe someone is sinning or a pagan idolator if they do.

[tufluv]

Most people who celebrate the worldy holiday called "Easter" are generally ignorant of its pagan roots.
THOSE who know, and do it anyway, to them it is sin.
No one wants to admit, acknowledge that they are indeed worshipping these "idols", but that does not change the fact that it is a deceptive tool of satan, to get their minds off of JESUS, by worshipping traditions of men!
INTENTS have little to do with the facts and repercussions.
There was a time I "intended" to just loosen up, relax, have a good time, when I drank, not giving atttention to the eventual repercussions. That did not change the fact that I was sinning against GOD, had no regard for HIM, and was merely out for my own benefits, and paid the price by become enslaved to that.
Anyone, in darkness, can justify sinning against GOD. Thats why we "the saints" have our job cut out for us in enlightening these misguided folks, of the realities of the pagan roots of their doings., in HOPES that they might see the error of their ways, one at a time, and turn to the one who died for them! JESUS!
And gradually come to the realization of the need for remission of their sins, and to be saved, via acts2:38, and live a life for Christ!
JUST MY THOUGHTS!
(I firmly believe that this holiday is pagan worship). PERIOD!

[Nawbee]

If we are to look at the history of things, why not start with the cross?

I mean, if the stigma of the past is immutable, then the cross can have no other meaning than the one pasted on it by thousands of years of murder, right?

Can't possibly have a Profound meaning to Christians NOW, can it?

Paul said:
1 Corinthians 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the meat market, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof.

27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof: 29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

I'm just guessing here but if it was OK to sit down at a feast in the old days and eat meat that was sacrificed to the idols of those days, as long as the content of your heart was correct, that letting the kids hunt and color eggs isn't a real threat to the Kingdom of God either...

However, if someone is with you and they freak about all that, and they do so from innocent ignorance, then you must, for their conscience not participate. We need to be clear that it is for their conscience, not my own that I'd stop.

I know that eggs are just eggs. I know that coloring them doesn't make them evil. I know a rabbit is just a rabbit.

I know that what others think about these things don't actually change them into evil things.

Nor does their history...

I like Paul, believe that God made everything for man's good. It is only his present thoughts and actions that make him/her evil. Not the thing itself.

So, whether you color and hunt eggs or whether you don't, do all to the Glory of God!

And yes, bunnies and kids only mix well when a dinner plate is involved.

;)

[drummerboy_dave]

I know a brother, who will not allow his wife to testify in church, because the bible speaks against it.

How sad it is to me, to see men apply scripture, in such a manner. Yet, they do so, in subjection to God, and I must respect that. Does this mean, that those wives who do testify and thier husbands, are in sin?

I find, that discussing this issue is fruitless. It continues to make me sick. Now, where is that vomitting icon?

[drummerboy_dave]

Wow, Nawbee! I am excited, that we see this, in the same light. God truly is amazing! Not, that I had any doubt.

[tufluv]

I fail to see how hunting for colorfully dyed eggs supposedly left there by an all-knowing rabbit seeking to bless? those kids, (as IF these rabbits even cared a hoot about anyone!:D), can be considered doing "all to the glory of GOD", PLEASE!!! Is GOD so easily "pleased, glorified"?

I guess some think its okay to start 'em young, into believing LIES, specifically that a mere furry creation of GOD, of all things, would LOVE them so-o much as to do this JUST FOR THEM! (and why hide them, then?) :eek: Whatever happend to good ole common-sense, or even regard and love for one's children, to wish them to grow up into discerning, GOD loving, individuals?

I myself, feel so cheated, deceived, knowing NOW what my parents led me to believe as a child!! Many many things, albeit done innocently/ignorantly, but I see that it is a parents JOB to educate themselves in what they want to teach their children, that they in turn will teach THEIR children! Not just provide for physical needs of a child, but more importantly SPIRITUAL! Which sustains life more abundantly than mere traditions of men, and material things!
I KNOW I was similarly taught, and then taught my own, but once having heard the truth, and this being confirmed by the HOLYGHOST, how negligent to not "walk" this TRUTH! I stopped doing those things once GOD proved this to me.
Too many of todays kids are SPOILED ROTTEN, and they are the ones who RUN their parents, not the other way around. Buying them anything their little hearts desire, for not wanting them to "suffer" any good thing money can buy., and soothe their kids whims by letting them think they are just as good as any other worldly kid. Take them to every amusement park, movie theatre, buy 'em video games, etc, that johnnie next door does/has, and don't forget fast food! It is just so nourishing, dontcha know?!
TV commercials cater to these simple minds.
I now thank GOD that I was too POOR money-wise to have indulged my kids to such a degree that they would be forever spoiled, how many grown kids have I known that grew up in the lap of luxury, just to resort to being lazy, but wanting these things, and worse as in drugs! I know two old friendsfrom my worldly days, that STOLE from their own parents to support drug habits, I was appalled!! and I wasn't even christian then!
ANYWAY, it seems I've gotten :nt: again, this is just a passionate issue for me! THANKS, GOD BLESS EVERYONE, SMILE ;) REMEMBER THAT HEAVENCAM! GOD IS watching!

[In His Service]

Sister Tuf,
Well said!

We must remember that the Word of God intructs the believer to touch not the unclean thing.
2 Cor. 6:14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15. And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16. And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

How can a true believer of God partake in things assocaited with idols, things they really know have nothing to do with Christ, and it not taint?

I have found that most people know that things associated with these days know that they have nothing to do with Christ. They enjoy them though so they don't dig a little deeper. But doesn
t a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Simply taking a little time to read more in the Word and a little history of things and you have an open book of the origin of why people are following the traditions of men. Are the true believers to follow the traditions of men? No. Why then do some hold the postition that it is all right to play with only a little fire? Does not fire end up burning?

Let us dig a little deeper
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

Ps. sister tufluv,

It should be a passionate issue for the entire body of Christ.

Prayers your way
Bro. Timothy

[Nawbee]

To tufluv:
Who said anything about lying to the children about mythical creatures?

Of course no one should ever lie to anyone, most especially small children.

Why do you put all egg hunts into one, narrow-minded basket?

Is it ever the Will of God to simply paste a label on someone to the exclusion of their freedom in Christ?

It is not.

[tufluv]

NAWBEE:
Why do you put all egg hunts into one, narrow-minded basket?

ME:
Why the need to "hunt" for eggs, they're available at your local supermarket, or farm, if one nearby!?If GOD wanted eggs to be colored, he'd of provided them that way naturally.

And even further, why on a day supposedly reserved for celebrating PASSOVER, and the resurrection of JESUS CHRIST, a marvelous miracle, which if not for HIS sacrifice in dying, then rising, we would not have our own SALVATION to be with HIM FOREVER & EVER, AMEN, as well?

If there is such a great need to "hunt" for egss, it can be done on any other day! And w/some credit given, some grocery stores do make these "hunts" available in their stores, on days prior to Easter., at least in this town.[not to say I condone the practice, period].

P.S. MY "basket" as you say, is JESUS-MINDED! Narrow is the road that leads to HIM!
HALLELUYAH, MY GOD IS REAL! :bow: AND, HE LOVES ME!
:angel:

[Nawbee]

To In His Service:
I must ask myself how you would react to Paul going to a feast of Jupiter and sitting down to eat goat meat that was the result of its sacrifice to said imaginary "god"?

From your post I can only surmise that your reaction to him would be as wrong as you reaction to innocent children's games of today.

We are not robots. We are not creatures without reason. We are not trapped by undeniable and unchangable animal instincts.

Nor are our minds confined to see only through the narrow slits of ancient history.

By the Grace of God in Jesus Christ we are men, free to reason in the Liberty of Christ.

If you do not seek this liberty for yourself, please, do as Paul has commanded and do not speak evil of that which you cannot conceive.

The Lord asks you this:

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The letter killeth...

The Spirit brings Life.

[ThirdGeneration]

Nawbee- Impressive.

To all-

What can we ever do or have in our homes that was not of pagen origins or associated with pagen worship at some point in time by some group of people?

I can't think of anything unless it is a modern invention, like perhaps the TV!

Pagens have prayer, temples and music. Hmmm......

Now, some admit that the celebration isn't harmful in itself but why do we have to do it when our culture does?

What in the world was Paul talking about when he said he became all things to all people (as much as morally possible) so that he might win them to Christ?

Would Paul be partying at Mardi Gras? I think not. Would Paul celebrate Easter as an American in this century? In a heartbeat.....

[Nawbee]

Thirdgeneration:
What can we ever do or have in our homes that was not of pagen origins or associated with pagen worship at some point in time by some group of people?

Me:
Do those who see colored eggs as evil because they were perhaps, once involved in pagan worship also abstain from meat?

Wasn't the meat from slaughtered animals used as sacrifice?

What of prayer?

Wasn't prayer used in these rites?

Sex?

Song?

Preaching?

Congregating?

If a thing is forever tainted by the Devil having once used it, what then is there left to us?

Or is it as Paul has said, that as long as a man knows these things are clean and good as he uses them, that the uses of others is of not concern to him, with the only exception being that he not cause a weak one to stumble?

[ThirdGeneration]

Nawbee- Whoa! I don't want to give those things up!

[ddc101]

Wow,
such emotion
to Bro.J,
Brother give it a break teacher of the word.Only a teacher would be so detail oriented.I simply got this article on the web.You are welcome to post an article in this thread yourself if it is of information on the topic.Please however do not post anything that even smells like a standard article as I would like to keep up the good banter.If you feel things in the article are out of sync with history etc. then share some truth with us.Thats what sharing is all about.
P.S.This article is not about eating meat rendered unto idols.
But since you all brought it up the Jews were very strict about not eating meat offered unto idols.The gentiles were however used to it.Paul dealt with the gentiles on this issue.They were like some of us...they didn't have a religous Jewish background.
Poor souls they had so much to learn concerning everything...don't agree?....just think about who was Corinthians written to.
Those who did terrible things that Apostle Paul had to set in order.lv sis.c

[ThirdGeneration]

Ddc- Am I to understand that you can post articles (and you probably post more articles than anyone else) but we need your aprooval to post an article?

(And obviously, I am not speaking of articles that deal with things we would not post).

1. Is this because this is YOUR thread?

2. Is this because you are a moderator?

3. Does Bro. John know that you are doing this?

If you are not going to allow others to post articles, then I think fairness would dictate that you please refrain from doing so as well.

I personally fail to see how articles about jelly beans and rabbits are better suited for this thread than what you have denied.

I think we are old enogh to judge Bro. J's article for ourselves without censorship (whoever he may be).

[ddc101]

Third,
You have taken what I am saying and making something out of nothing.I simply like to hear what Bro.J has to day as I have been reading what he is posting on the ministers thread.I just started this thread for an information thread.He questioned the first post so I invited him to post some additional information.Sister post what you want.lv sis.c

[Xerf]

Nancy has her spy glass out once again!

:jk:

[ThirdGeneration]

Ddc- I am glad to hear that we all have an equal playing field. I personally would like to see the additional information that Bro. J wanted to share.

I agree that I would usually prefer to see people's own ideas expressed and supported.

But if one poster uses articles, it certainly seems fair that the other posters should likewise be entitled to get "information" on the thread.

[ddc101]

I like to read articles as well sister but I sure do hate to read the ones that encourage arguing over standards and then Bro.Atkinson has to go and shut the thread down.
What I do want to say it that for years I celebrated Easter in a pagan fashion.That is why I wanted to share some insight on it.
You probably did not as you grew up in church.But I did not.Thankfully we went to mass on Easter.It was the big day
that those who never went to church showed up.I don't honestly know if it was for service or to have someplace to wear all the new clothes to.hahaha.But about everything we did was pagan including our religon.So its nice to be able to read the origins of things and check our hearts.I do not feel however that we need to shove it on others as God can speak to them as well.lv sis.c

[searching]

Sadly, I have to post my article on my own thread I guess, as it's unwanted here. In doing so, I wonder if I can purchase one of those post zapper guns myself......J/K.

Me...

[ThirdGeneration]

Ddc- Bro. John has shut down only 2 or 3 threads that I am aware of. I think booting offensive posters off is a better solution than censorship.

It seems that you may be censoring ideas you don't agree with rather than the things that Bro. John has forbidden at the Cafe.

Is J's article the only one you have deleted on this thread?

[searching]

I started my own thread. All may post there, I promise not to delete anyone's posts.

Me...

[dllong]

I think the key word here is bondage. I don't beleive God wants us to be bound to anything. Whether it's a festival, new moons, holidays or observances; nor does he want us to be bound in what we eat or don't eat. WE ARE FREE to do all things, but not all things are convenient. If our brother is vexed by watching us eat sometihing he feels is unclean, then don't eat it. There is no reason to harm his conscience because of our freedom. I beleive same could be true for holidays and festivals.

I find this to be good common christian sense. What do you think?

Dave

[Nawbee]

I think Paul gave a Word of Great Authority that spans time to this very day. Said Word has been Reaffirmed in the hearts of many, myself among the least, in this very day.

Follow only God's Living Word, Spoken in your own heart this very day and there will be no confusion.

If you cannot hear this Word, you have greater problems than colored eggs.

[Xerf]

I think a lot of things too, but so far I haven't been able to make them into words.............I will keep trying...........THINK!!!

:)

[ddc101]

Its not a matter of censorship.Its a matter of disunity being sinful.
I think we can be lighthearted about this subject.That is why I posted the jelly bean and rabbit posts.I don't know if I would have gone to hell over celebrating holidays in pagan ways but I know that I would go to hell if I did it now.lv sis.c

[tufluv]

AMEN, SIS COOPER! ;)

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally posted by ddc101
Its not a matter of censorship.Its a matter of disunity being sinful.
I think we can be lighthearted about this subject.That is why I posted the jelly bean and rabbit posts.I don't know if I would have gone to hell over celebrating holidays in pagan ways but I know that I would go to hell if I did it now.lv sis.c So, Ddc, if by convenience, you were able to attend dinner at my house next Sunday, would you or would you not, eat my easter ham, hot cross buns, chocolate bunnies, and jelly beans? I would like a serious answer, please.

[Truthseeker]

I would after casting the devil out the ham! :)

[truemessianic]

I have a deep personal conviction on this subject. If we know that it is indeed a pagan holiday, and not really a Christian holiday, don't celebrate it. Is Easter pagan? Yes. We say it celebrates the Resurrection, but does it, wiht the candy and the things we do in association with pagan rites. What of Christmas? It too is pagan, for no where is the exchanging of gifts mentioned in the Bible as being part of any Christian celebration. Our hearts and minds should be completely focused upon the Lord in all days. Everyday should be a perpetual celebration unto Him. Paul said in Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ." Some take this verse as to say we should not judge our brethren in how and what days they celebrate, but I interpret this verse as to say that such things should not be celebrated, so as to not give any man the reason to try to judge us. The idea of holding one day in more importance and significance than another is not Bible at all. Everyday is unto the Lord, and as such, should be celebrated as holy.
Now, as to certain days, I do keep Passover, and celebrate the Communion then, for it is the day the Lord did so. But, other than that, I see nother important event that the Church celebrated in all the New Testament.

[ThirdGeneration]

Truemessianic- I am all for everyone keeping their personal convictions when stated as such.

However, when someone says that they believe a certain thing because of a particular verse; then I think its fair to point out why differing minds may disagree.

To interpret the verse you mention as a prohibition against celebrating Christmas and Easter seems problematic for several reasons.

1. In and of itself; this verse was not directed at the Gentile belivers, but rather the Jewish believers who were attempting to hold unto the law. This verse was not directly about pagen holidays. Paul felt that the law was a schoolmaster that brought the Jews to that time; but was no longer enforce.

2. If you interpret this as a prohibition against keeping holidays; then one (if literal) must also be a vegetarian, or (if reasoned) at least keep the OT meat eating laws. However, we know that Paul said the teaching which commanded the abstainance of meat from others was the "doctrine of devils" (1 Tim 4:1-3). Thus, it doesn't seem logical to interpret Col 2:16-17 as a prohibition against the items listed.

3. We know that the 14th chapter of Romans contradicts the idea that Paul prohibited keeping holidays (If a person's conscience kept it as unto the Lord).

4. We also know that the NT church was free to eat meat that had been sacraficed to idols, if their conscience wasn't weak.

5. Finally, what of birthdays, weddings and funerals? Why the inconsistency?

6. What hasn't been assoicated with pagen worship at some point in the past?

[jbenjesus]

Originally posted by ddc101
Wow,
such emotion
to Bro.J,
Brother give it a break teacher of the word.Only a teacher would be so detail oriented.I simply got this article on the web.You are welcome to post an article in this thread yourself if it is of information on the topic.Please however do not post anything that even smells like a standard article as I would like to keep up the good banter.If you feel things in the article are out of sync with history etc. then share some truth with us.Thats what sharing is all about.
lv sis.c

Thirdgeneration then said, "I think we are old enogh to judge Bro. J's article for ourselves without censorship (whoever he may be)."

Sis. Cooper answered, "Third,
You have taken what I am saying and making something out of nothing.I simply like to hear what Bro.J has to day as I have been reading what he is posting on the ministers thread.I just started this thread for an information thread.He questioned the first post so I invited him to post some additional information.Sister post what you want.lv sis.c"


ThirdG responds, "Ddc- I am glad to hear that we all have an equal playing field. I personally would like to see the additional information that Bro. J wanted to share.

I agree that I would usually prefer to see people's own ideas expressed and supported.

But if one poster uses articles, it certainly seems fair that the other posters should likewise be entitled to get "information" on the thread."

ThirdG continues later, "Ddc- Bro. John has shut down only 2 or 3 threads that I am aware of. I think booting offensive posters off is a better solution than censorship.

It seems that you may be censoring ideas you don't agree with rather than the things that Bro. John has forbidden at the Cafe.

Is J's article the only one you have deleted on this thread?"
Sheeeeesh!...

What did I do to deserve this?

I simply commented that the article Sis. Cooper used, reminded me of the origin tale of Mythra religion. It was practically identical, except that the names were changed.

I simply asked you, Sis. Cooper, if you checked it out with other sources.

What if the article is totally false?

Then all this "banter" is irrelevant because it based upon a false premise of apparent truth.

Why does ThirdG believe I submitted an article that was deleted? I submitted no such article. I have no article to submit.

Actually this post is being redone. We did this during Christmas and halloween last year.

I already shared my thoughts then.

Jesus bless y'all!!!

[tufluv]

TRUEMESSIANIC:
AMEN! to your recent post above!

[Nawbee]

To truemessianic:
Who are you to condemn the thoughts and intents of my heart?

If I sit down to a dinner and I commit it to God in my heart and mind, by what authority do you then damn me for it???

Jesus said that it isn't what goes into a man that makes him unclean but that which comes out of him, being the fruit of his own heart.

By what authority then do you make that which goes into a man (me) that which makes him unclean?

Pagans used to do many, many things. They ascribed taboos and hexes against many rites and deeds. There was no power in any of thier efforts. This is because they cannot overwrite the Will of God.

God created everything. His Creation does not become unclean just because a bunch of pagans decide to make it unclean.

Works the same for "Pharisees" of any era.

If you worship anything but God in kneeling and praying, you are a pagan.

If you worship anything but God in your doctrine, you are a pagan.

If you worship anything but God in your baptism, you are a pagan.

Why restrict it to eggs and jelly beans?

Paul said that if you were set in your own mind that the fulness of the Earth is God's and made for mankind's good and you were of a mind to go to a pagan feast, to go with a good conscience. By what authority do you now say to not go?

[Xerf]

What if a man only had a Bible and no history book of any kind what would he end up as, what would he believe?

[tufluv]

The History within that book! HIS STORY!

[Nawbee]

I have a better question: What if a man/woman only listened to the Still, Quiet Voice of God and then obeyed whatever He Told them to do?

What would they be? What would they accomplish in life?

[In His Service]

Many great post and I thank all those that have posted. Tuf and sis. C. and Bro. William, so well said in all your post.

People talk about just dedicating what ever they do, saying it is to God and then all is fine.

Well that would mean that the Catholics with the prayers to the dead saints and Mary would be fine. They do it in their service to worshipping God. It is part of their service to God they believe. ???

Now how does the reasoning that you take something pagan, stick a christian idea on it and call it Godly come from? Well we can see the RC church did that quite well for there are many on this board and spread across this planet that have bought it. Why not go back and see what one of the Popes told his clergy about just Christianizing pagan holidays. If we take away thier fun they will not want to join us. Lets just look for a way to stick a different name on it and make it part of our worship. They will then still have thier cake and eat it too!!!! ( stated in okie and not a quote, though I can get it for you if you like).

Does our freedom in the Holy Ghost mean that we can stick a name on something that we can really easily see is against the Word of God and call it Christian. Seems that Christian, last I knew, meant Christ like. Now what is Christ like about all these things assocaited with a pagan deity and its worship??????? Maybe some need to rethink the Christian concept and meaning?!

The still quiet voice gets shoved to the side so much of the time. When we get that nagging idea in our mind that something someone shared with us just might be right, but we don't want to think of that so we shove it to the back of our minds. The problem with many is that the still small voice is drowned out by the constant speaking of "our minds" with in our ownself. Someone can only hear the Still quiet voice when they leave themselves and thier ideas of any thing behind and then see for God to speak to them.

If someone only had the bible and knew nothing of history, if they studied to show themselves approved before God, they would see the simple facts given by God, the simple directions that God would lead them in. Some would reject the truths because they would be hard to do. Others because it would make them stand out from those around them. While others don't want to get that radical in thier serving God.

Take a simple study of the early church. How did they celebrate the birth and death of Christ. If they did it one way, should we not do it the same!!!!!!!!

Prayers for all,
Bro. Timothy

[ThirdGeneration]

Jbenjesus- Thank you for pointing out how wrong I was!

Ddc- I am sorry for acting so militant.

Bro. Tim- I owe you an apology as well. I am afraid you ruffled the feathers of a protective mother hen. I did not need to act that ugly about it.

[Xerf]

QUICK!!!!!!!! COPY AND PASTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





:jk:

[ThirdGeneration]

Xerf- :rolleyes:

[tufluv]

PRAISE GOD for THIRDGEN!

XERF: you're good, a mindreader too? Wow! a :bow: to you!

[Xerf]

tufluv...THE GARAGE........remember.........CLEAN THE GARAGE.......unless your keyboard has a looooooong cord you can't be doing both, and your hubby will EXPECT progress when he gets home (not to mention supper). GO TO WORK!


ThirdGen: It's ok........Nancy reached a few wrong deductions.......BUT she always solved the case in the end. So you may just be in Chp 4 right now........hang on till the END!



:)(

[Xerf]

Besides ThirdGen you are a bigger woman now because of the incident (I gave that same compliment to my girlfriend and now she's an ex girlfriend -- Women! go figure! I even complimented her beyond the norm, I not only told her she was a bigger woman but was one of the biggest women I knew! And then she left! ------- I think I gave her the big head and she didn't want to be seen with insignificant little ole me!)

[Nawbee]

To In His Service:
You make what is know as a circular argument. It goes like this: I am right because if you look at what I have said is right, you can only conclude that I am right.

The quesiton is what does your calling an act pagan have to do with whether it really is pagan or not?

To answer your quesiton about pagan rituals, whether they be in or out of the RCC, please reread prior postings.

Do you pray? Then you practice a RCC pagan ritual, do you not?

Do you submit to a pastor? Then YOU practice a RCC pagan ritual.

Do you believe in one, unified body of Christ?

Then YOU practice a RCC pagan ritual.

That is of course if YOU are right and they get to define, once and for always, that an act or practice is unclean, simply because the RCC has practiced it.

You can't read your bible, attend church and any number of rites and practices.

So, I ask, again, why do you impose damnation upon me for doing in Truth that which I know to be Godly?

The error of the Catholics in much of their ritual isn't that they do it, but in that they do it unto a false god.

Isn't this the error of all pagans?

[stmatthew]

There is a book out called "The Babylon Connection" that gives a lot of info as to inconsistencies in the theories of Nimrod and Tammuz, and all those other folks with funny names. Anybody ever read it??

[committed]

Hi all, To the pure all things are pure! I have heard all these arguments over the last 28 years that I have served my God........ And as of yet no one has convinced me.....I firmly believe that, when the rest of the world is looking at/to Jesus, we need to take that opportunity and use it to the GOOD! Sure, they get it mixed up....yes, they go to church in the morning and have an egg hunt in the noon time.....but statistics say Christmas and Easter are the two biggest days a year that people go to church. So should we put them on the hot seat for their "carnal" ways? I know of one church, (UPC), who for several years preached against celebrating Christmas......they never grew! Read Rom. 14, it is excellent on this stuff. If I celebrate a day, I do it unto the Lord, if I don't, I don't do it unto the Lord.....When are we going to get our eyes off all these little things and get them back on the Lord and those that don't know him. Reminds me the time the disciples complained to Jesus, saying this other man who was not one of them was preaching Jesus, and our wonderful Lord said "let him be, he who is for me is not against me" I do not believe there is a holiday celebrated by christendom that knowingly or otherwise worships these idols. It is unfair to say they do. Almost everything we do in the world, has a pagan beginning.....that doesn't mean they still are. :idea:

[tufluv]

When did PAGAN come to = CHRISTIAN?


XERF: Believe it or not, I have made GREAT progress already in the garage, I forgot to add, Hubby's in there too!![no work today] You think I'm gonna clean up all his mess ALONE!! Not on your chinny chin chin! :cool:
And he's doing a bangup (ouch) job, making shelves, cabinets, etc., and we'll be making a trip to the dump a little later as well...can I bring you back anything? There's a bunch of old jokes sheets out there, I heard tell, dumped out there by the old comedy store that closed its doors! :D
I'm just taking a BREAK, okay!

p.s. I DID say I'd be checking in&out, remember? [Oh thats right, your hearing aid's at the repair shop, weno, bye!]

[In His Service]

Dear Third,
God bless!!!!!!

Xerf, Be Good!!!!!

Tufluv, CLEAN SISTER CLEAN!!!!

Committed,
Ok, little more here.

What does the Word of God say about partaking of the things assocaited with Idol? Did God in the Old Testatament let the Chosen People mix pagan with the Jewish covenant? OF course not!!! Why would he allow it today?

Sure people go to church on Easter and Christmas. A custom that they just might do like getting drunk the night before. Do they do it because they want to serve God, or to ease thier conscience? It is custom for people to attend services on those Sunday's but I have yet to here of someone running to the Alter on those days and beginning for God. Maybe somewhere it has happened, not with anyone I have talked with over the years though.

Since going into a bar and sharing a round with the Good old boys might make them feel more comfortable and we could then after a few beers begin talking about God. Doesn't sound right does it? Why because things not assocaited with the things of God are taking place. Same with the Holidays. Sure to partake in them will make people more comfortable with you and you might could even talk a little about God, but you do so around the Christmass tree or while they take pictures of the easter bunnie of the kids, does it profit anything. Mixing pagan with Christian is what made God mad in the Old Testament, and hey, it makes him just as mad today.

More later,
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

LOL at tufluv!!!
Bro. Timothy

[stmatthew]

So Bro Timothy,

Does that mean you no longer celebrate birthdays, which is a pagan custom??


Amazingly enough, Paul even allows for the eating of meat offered to Idols. To paraphrase his words, he says "it is nothing".

[stmatthew]

Actually,

How far should we take this. We must become Jews and hold to all Jewish customs, as everything outside judaism (is that the right word?) would be concidered paganism.

[committed]

I agree with stmatthew. The scripture about eating that is offered to idols, is sure different than the old testament commands....I have one question.....are we in the soul saving business, or just saving ourselves and feeling good about ourselves. You said about the drinker coming to church to to relieve his/her conscience......you are talking like a lifelong christian here.....do you know how many people in the world do not even know, that it is considered a sin? I know I personally never knew it was part of being a christian to go to church whenever the doors were open. Do not second guess this lost and dying world....what is normal to you isn't to many of them. That is why, our goal has to be bigger than whether or not we celebrate a day or eat food given to idols. The pharisees were so full of their rules and traditions, and the Lord was not happy with them. We don't have much time left!!

[Nawbee]

To committed:
I know I personally never knew it was part of being a christian to go to church whenever the doors were open.

Me:
Uh, where did you get that idea?

[John Atkinson]

Originally posted by committed
Hi all, To the pure all things are pure! I have heard all these arguments over the last 28 years that I have served my God........ And as of yet no one has convinced me.....I firmly believe that, when the rest of the world is looking at/to Jesus, we need to take that opportunity and use it to the GOOD! Sure, they get it mixed up....yes, they go to church in the morning and have an egg hunt in the noon time.....but statistics say Christmas and Easter are the two biggest days a year that people go to church.

I don't think I could have said it better myself.

If I give my kid a chocolate rabbit or a reeses peanut butter egg, I am not doing so in worship of Oesrtre or Ishtar or any of those. If I go to Church on easter sunday, I am going to church just like I would any other Sunday.

Tomorrow when I give my daughter birthday presents I am not following a pagan custom. I f pagans used to celebrate birthdays...so what. Ancient pagans used to eat and go to the potty too. big deal. I am not a pagan. If I color eggs and hide them from my kid, there is no spiritual significance in that act. And I am not a sinner for doing so.

I think if folks get really bent on "pagan" holidays, then they should stop spending money (masonic symbolgy all over it), rename the days of the week (I am all for Oneday, Twoday, Threeday...etc, simple that way) adn basically live like the amish, utterly seperated. Because aspects of paganism pervade every area of everyday life.

My policy is that I celebrate whatever day I celebrate and in whatever fashion I celebrate it as unto the Lord. If you don't fine. I promise I won't try and make you celebrate. And you can promise not to try and stop me from celebrating it.

Worship is a function of intent, it is a manifestation of will. You choose to worship something.

[foreverblessed]

Amen Bro. John!

[Xerf]

Yeah and besides all of that, WHO is calling rabbits "pagan?" I have you know that some of my close (a hairs breath) friends are rabbits! Besides that they can be very religious also, even though none have spoken in tongues quite a few have had quivering noses! So lay off the name calling........rabbits are cool!


:)

[John Atkinson]

Xerf (Though I have never yet met an erf, now I can say I know an Ex-erf) You help make the cafe a funner place with yer, umm, whatever that was dale accused you of....

Three cheers for Ex-Erf!!!

[foreverblessed]

Xerf,
You are soo wacked out man! :D You keep me in stitches! LOL

[In His Service]

Worship is a function of intent, it is a manifestation of will. You choose to worship something.

Part of the above is true. However when our funtion becomes a manifestation that is against the Word of God then it becomes a sin!!

Why is this so hard for some to understand. The bible speaks to us about not partaking in things that are done unto or in association with idols. Easter, what does that day mean? Is it found in the bible? Who decided to set the day up for the celebration? Do we find backing for the things assocaite with that day in the Word of God, or do we find scriptures that tell us to turn away?

Some on Brothers and Sisters!!!!! Open past the worlds arguements and get into the Word of God. I will try soon to direct some of the discussion more in the biblical directions for us all.

Get rid of your ideas, my ideas and look to what the Word of God says.
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

Just remember xerf, to everything there is a season, I time to joke and a time to be funny, :~) try a little balance, :~) a 50-50 split would be a good goal, :~)

Bro. Timothy

[Xerf]

Okay matey, now for the funny side..................

[Xerf]

http://www.gieson.com/Library/projects/animations/risen/index.html

[foreverblessed]

Xerf, That was way too cool!!

Inhisservice, Don't pick on Xerf, he is saving me money this month, I don't need my prozac with him around! :D

[Xerf]

Just remember xerf, to everything there is a season, I time to joke and a time to be funny, :~) try a little balance, :~) a 50-50 split would be a good goal, :~)


Inhisservice, I (in a serious tone) say to you to go back and carefully read your 50/50 advice........I am doing (most of the time) just what you stated. (End serious tone)


:)

[Nawbee]

In His Service:
Come on Brothers and Sisters!!!!! Open past the worlds arguements and get into the Word of God. I will try soon to direct some of the discussion more in the biblical directions for us all.

Me:
I'm assuming you won't be using the one from Paul saying that it is OK to engage in pagan feast-ivals as long as you know they worship nothing...???

It would be good if you first provide the verses that tell us not to listen to Paul and listen instead to you.

To that end I have some for you:

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

While I cannot stop you, I can die with clean hands in this regard, having twice now warned you.

[committed]

Inhisservice,
You seem to have a blind spot that everyone has written concerning what the new testament teaches and shows. Again I say read Romans 14, and Colossians 2. We are here for the sole purpose of winning the lost. You cannot be so dogmatic on the things that are heaven and hell issues and expect win people to God, you must look at the whole picture. You can take this thing way down the steep slope if you are not careful. Everything could be considered your God.......remember the NT teaches us to be temperate in ALL things. Your arguments sound more like the arguments with our Lord and the Pharisees. The questioned every thing He did, including healing the sick on the sabbath. That spirit can be a snare.......we must look to what Jesus loved most...not traditions, and man's rules......He cared about lost souls, and that is what He shed tears for......God help us if we put these things above His heart.......because then we become no better than those we live such strict lives and have no love for God's world!

[nightwatchman]

Cool animation xerk.

[BroDane]

I think people should let the Holy Ghost be the Holy Ghost in a persons heart then, when a person obeys HIS voice then,... freedom will come..

You cant mandate obedience. We cant make people SEE what we SEE in the Word, we can only pray...and BE examples Instead of: You better or Else!!

Trust me..I tried that approach..LOVE works Better

Now Ill duck.....:beammeup:

[committed]

oops...........I meant to say that aren't heaven and hell issues!!

:(

[Truthseeker]

once a pagan always a pagan! :)


One said they knew a church that preached against x-mass but it never grew. I doubt that had anything to do with it, but it works if trying to justify using the customs of the birthday of the sun god to celebrate the Son birthday. I have a friend that preaches against x-mass and his church has growed.

Whether something will cause some to come or leave should not be used to determine if it's right ot not.

I feel their is two main reason we have a hard time letting go of these pagan customs.

1) We enjoy the spirit of it.

2) We afraid of the losing or not gaining memebers.


I got a ?

Would it be right for a buddhist to keep a buddha statue in his house after coming to Jesus even if he didn't worship it?

[In His Service]

Bro. Dane,
I do understand what you are trying to say.

I do believe that it is important that we look to the Word of God to see though what God expects for the church.
Eph. 4: 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Why did God place the ministry in the body. To help with the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. We must all seek out our own salvation with fear and with trembling, by all means that is Word. However to many people want to lean on thier own understanding and not follow the ministry as it tries to teach and direct the body of Christ.

The unity of the faith is more than just Acts 2:38 and the oneness of God. We are to not be children any longer drinking only milk but we are to grow and mature in him. When we do this we will see that we can not follow the traditions of men that others in the world do, but we must align ourselves with the Word of God an all things, word and deed.

Think of the actual pagan worshipers that admittedly worship still the deities spoken of in the Word of God. They see that these things that are done on the holidays that the Catholic Church has created or if you will, adopted, are just as done for so many thousands of years in most ways. They then look to those that call themselves the true children of God, the apostolics. They see those that call themselves "the Church" and see that they have the things of thier idols in practice in thier lives, at least on set aside days of the year. Do you not think the demons laugh within them, for we judge them as lost sinners, but we are partaking in the things we would tell them they where wrong to do.

Would we go to China and set a Buddah in the midst of our homes on the days set aside as special for his celebration just so that we could be like all others. We could call that Buddah, Christ, but is still remain Buddah does it not?

We are to become all things, to all men as Paul spoke of. We are to become the weak to those who are weak. Poor to those who are poor, etc.... but are we to partake in the ungodly in the hopes of winning them. Will a house divided stand?

PRayers for all,
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

Bro. Rob, you beat me to that question, LOL LOL!!! You posted it while I was typing, :~)

Keep on,
Bro. Timothy

[John Atkinson]

Well, for the admin part, as long as the against everything but fresh air people don't attack the easter/christmas/birthdays crowd, and vice versa, and as long as the against everything but fresh air people don't tell the easter/christmas/birthdays crowd that they are hell bound, and vice versa, this discussion may continue.

That includes not calling your brothers and sisters "Pagan" if they celebrate the risen Lord on Easter Sunday. The measure of Christianity isn't whether or not you regard some day, it is that you love your brethren.

Everybody be nice, and if you can't don't post. Also, an observation, if you made your point with posts #1 and #2, what value is gained from restating the same point in posts 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11...infinity?

[In His Service]

I would like for some that speak of the Libery of Christ allowing us to partake in such days as we are speaking of because we, Do it unto Christ, even though it is not a "Christian" concept.

Does the following scriptures tell us to go ahead, because we understand that there is only one God and the other things called God's are not in reality God's but idol. Are we instructed that we, understanding that all things where created by God and that in themselves they are not defiled, take part in days or feast,( which these days in reality are) or are we to not take part in them to keep from those that do not understand from doing it unto the Idol?

Which are we instructed, to do, or not do?

1 Cor. 8 1 Corinthians 8

1. Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2. And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3. But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11. And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12. But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Thanks for answering,
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

Bro. John,
Why do we time after time speak to those who need to obey Acts 2:38 or who do not understand the oneness of God? Because it is important to obey the truth.

Leaving these days behind as we are told is part of the Truth also. One that many don't want to do, but according to the Word of God needed to make heaven.

Do we keep reaching to someone heading toward hurting themselves if we can? Do we sit back and twiddle our thumbs while they are headed for a certain painful accident? Or do we keep trying our best to get them to stop before they get hurt, be fore God comes to judge?

That is why those that have accepted instructions to help our brothers and sisters keep trying to chip away at man made ways and traditions so that the Church might find true liberty and a way for the "Church" to be what God desires it to be.

Love and prayers your way,
Bro. Timothy

[John Atkinson]

Romans 14:5-6
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

There you have it, the only "Truth" in the word concerning holidays. Regard them if you want, don't if you want, but either way, unto the Lord.

[Nawbee]

Answer first what this means:

2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

[Nawbee]

I'll even give you a hint.

Question: Would a believer be OK to go to such a feast and eat if they heard the Word of God Spoken in their own hearts and Confirmed by Signs and wonders?

Or would they be out of line for not listening instead to men such as yourself?

[John Atkinson]

There is a BIG difference between a egg hunt for kids as a ressurection sunday event used to help draw new people and going to say, a Samhain festival with the local wicca coven.

One is celebrating the Death, Burial and Ressurection of Christ, one is actually pagan in intent and purpose.

You are comparing Apples to Pumpkins. Not valid reasoning.

[In His Service]

Can you show that Brother from the Word of God?
The Egg hunt has nothing to do with Christ but has lots to do with an Idol. What is one mixing in, pure or defiled with what is called a Godly service?

The comparison is a very valid one that people want to not look at.
Bro. Timothy

[Nawbee]

Would Jesus have not gone to the Samhein festival?

And Preached up a Storm????

Casting the demons from many???

Y'know, I get the feeling that Jesus isn't really welcome in some of Y'all's services...

[In His Service]

Why is it that if people have such a hard time laying aside certain celebration that take place during our year that have nothing to do with Christ? Why does the flesh get so riled up when someone suggest that it should be laid aside to grow in Christ?

Might anyone like to answer what they feel,
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

Nawbee,
Do you think he would have been proclaiming the Truth to them as he did so. So shall I come to your church next sunday and proclaim the truth about that day? :~)

Have to tell you God moved last night in a mighty, mighty way in our services. God was there in a Big, big way and spoke to many. I who have a painful disability and only am able to get around with assistance devices everyway danced all over the church, shouted, ran, gave words to many, danced some more for over an our and a half. Nothing that I did but everything that he did. If God was not in our service then I would like someone to explain how victory was gotten by many and this old crippled man could leap for joy?

Love your way and prayers,
Bro. Timothy

[Truthseeker]

quote:Romans 14:5-6
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


What do these scriptures got to do with partaking of customs that originated in paganism?

[Nawbee]

Ever been to a Rock concert?

So, is your Holy Ghost gonna come beat up my Holy Ghost?

John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Here we see a man who prophesied while pronouncing the Greatest Sin of All Time.

Is God the Author of confusion?

I will not do as you have and list here the Miracles of God in my life and the lives of those whom He and He alone has Touched by His Ministry in me. I will, as I have always done, simply refer those who read and question what is right to the One and Only Authority.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

[ddc101]

Wow,
You are all so passionate in your posts.
Thank you Sis.Third you are indeed special.
Bro.Drummerboy Dave,
No I would not eat the ham nor the eggs.I did that stuff for years.God spoke to my heart not to.If I did it to me it would be sin.The reason I posted origins of jelly beans and treatment of bunnies was because it was getting a bit tight in here.
Bro.J,
Have you ever done a giftedness profile? You have many of the leadership skills to become a gifted teacher.The reason I said this earlier is that the things that bother you in reading posts are the things that would bother a teacher.As for the origin of holidays.I have long belonged to a ladies group that discusses them continually some for and some against.They also discuss biblical holidays and celebrations and their fullfillment in Jesus.I did not say the first post was fact just something good for discussion.
I read articles 24-7.I am well aware of all the histories myself but I do not want to get that tight in posting so that I offend anyone or appear overbearing.It is not the point of discussion to come to a conclusion.The point is to share ideas and think for yourself which I think you do very well.lv sis.c

[John Atkinson]

The verses have to do with regarding a holiday, not customs. By the way, got a calendar in your house? Make any plans for Any day that is named for a pagan god, all of them are.

Got money in your wallet? Get rid of it, all seeing eye of Osiris is on the back of them thar doller bill, better burn them.

Vote lately? The US of A was designed and implemented by masonic illuminists. PAGAN!!!

All or nothin fellas, don't you flame my suger-free chocolate bunny, while you got dollars in your pocket, have a calendar on your wall, or call yourself american.

BTW and FTR - I don't celebrate any holiday. The only HOLY DAY is the day of the Lord. I don't color eggs, mostly because it is a pain in the neck. As a church we totally ignore all of them.

[ddc101]

Brother Atkinson,
That dollar bill makes a great preaching tool concerning many things that our nation is based upon.I use it from time to time.I really would prefer if they would allow us to use gold instead but anyway since its all we get we are stuck with it.
Look really good and check out the six pointed star on it.lv sis.c

[John Atkinson]

I was out of order, i forgot that noone uses dollars any more.

But, The master card, visa and amex logos could just be brand new pagan symbols. I mean SOMEBODY had to be the first one to come up with "eye of osirus".

Bout time we had some new ones
:-)

[committed]

What I meant when I said about a church that didn't grow and they preached against christmas.....is that was their main theme....not reaching the lost, living an overcoming life, but instead they went on the street corners and preached against it. Now there is a new preacher, and their church has really grown....somethings are important right now (i.e. ACTS 2:38) and somethings are just not as important and can be a definite road block to some. First we must love the sinner, and our brethren, and we will in turn do and preach what thus sayeth the Lord, not thus sayeth Bro. so and so........It is all about why we are here!!

[In His Service]

I always get a chuckle out of people talking about the days of the week when speaking in support of holidays.

There is not a thing that you or I do that is assocaite with Thor on Thursday, Wooden on Wendnsay, Frey on Friday and so forth. Yet on Easter and Christmas there are so many things associate with these days that are pagan that people can't be serious when comparing can they?

Bro. John,
Might I ask why you or your church do not do the things you say are find to do on the holidays? Why ignore them if they are fine for the Body of Christ to partake in?

It would help me to understand why you support them in your dicussions but don't take part in them.
thanks
Bro. timothy

[In His Service]

Committed,
I think that there are many that only see getting people in the door and not helping them walk down the lane. I agree that sharing Acts 2:38 is the beginning for every lost soul.

You will not find anyone more loving and overlooking towards a person coming to God or a new babe in Christ that I am. I know that a babe drinks milk and can only digest the milk. But I think to many older saints are still stuck on the bottle if you will. I don't think anyone here would beat a new born saint over the head with the deeper things like this while they are yet in the early learning stage.

People have a tendency to believe on that speaks against these things are fanatics who do not care for souls and only care for, I think someone said it as ultra conservative agendas. I know that I care deeply about each and every soul that I come into contact with. That is why I feel so deeply that those that have digested the milk must move onward. Deeper depths and higher heights must be climbed.

People fight that which the do not understand. When they understand they then fight for that understanding to be shared and shown to others. Always done in love for others souls.

Prayers your way,
Bro. Timothy

[John Atkinson]

Bro Timothy,
You will find I often play "devils advocate" in these discussions.

I am niether for or against holidays. I don't believe it to be a sin to participate in them. Whether or not I personally participate depends upon the needs of the Gospel. i.e. I will buy gifts and do the Christmas thing to reach for lost relatives. It is a point of, as Paul said, "becoming all things to all men, that I might by some means win some" (paraphrased).

There have been times in the past when we as a church had "resurrection sunday" (egg and rabbit free) services just because a family expressed interest in going to one.

As far as the customs, the world is filled with sin, you can't get more pagan than that. If you go to work chances are you work for a sinner, who will use the fruit of you labor to sin. If you buy a product, chances are you are giving profit to a sinner, who will use it to sin.

Sin is everywhere, easter eggs aren't sending people to hell - sin is. Ancient pagan symbology was sin to ancients. Today, we gots new symbology, but sin is the same. Most people don't recognize a chocolate egg as a "fertility" symbol, but everyone knows waht "XXX" symbolizes. No church I know of having easter sunday services practices fertility rites, which were basically a mass orgy. The christianization of holidays is a deep study, and much of what you read in search of the history of it is hearsay and conjecture.


The reason I keep the GNC a private forum, is so we can discuss this stuff here, and then go forth to reach for sinners as children of God together...

[Xerf]

It is time to fulfill my 50/50 proportional requirment (laid down by our own Brother Timothy)

AMEN, InHisService! AMEN! (this was no joke)

[ddc101]

Xerf has cried wolf so many times I don't know if he's joking or not.......sis.c:)

[Truthseeker]

So one pagan act justify anothers?

So becaue of we have money with pagan symbols I can have easter egg or a sun god tree?

So because were in a society that uses pagan names for the days of the weeks if can have a easter egg hunt?


Notice that the money and days of the week we can't change, but the CUSTOMS PRACTICED on those days we can. Yes we say sunday, but we don't practice any customs to the sun god. Big difference

[searching]

Just as you don't practice those pagan practices, neither do I when I celebrate the birth of my Lord, nor His resurrection.

Me...

[light]

[i]Originally posted by ddc101
Wow,
You are all so passionate in your posts.
Thank you Sis.Third you are indeed special.
Bro.Drummerboy Dave,
No I would not eat the ham nor the eggs.I did that stuff for years.God spoke to my heart not to.If I did it to me it would be sin.The reason I posted origins of jelly beans and treatment of bunnies was because it was getting a bit tight in here.
sis.c [/B]

Mark 7:1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

Mark 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Mark 7:14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Mark 7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

[tufluv]

HERE's one more little tidbit of info regarding this thread, an excerpt from a web preacher:

The name Easter is traced back to the old German word, Eastre, (plural) Eastron, from the name of the old Teutonic "goddess of spring," who was called - Eastra. NOTE THIS CAREFULLY: Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon that falls on or the next Sunday after the vernal equinox (March 21 in the Gregorian calendar); if the full moon happens on Sunday, Easter is celebrated one week later.

We do not find the actual festival or Easter associated with the resurrection of Christ until the year 300 A.D. It was then looked upon as a joyous festival and sermons were reached on it.

So then, Easter was simply a spring festival to the goddess Eastra, which came around the time of the Jewish Passover and was later incorporated in the backslidden church.

Dear reader, be not deceived and carried away by the customs of this world, for the people's customs are vain. The Pope, himself, cannot prove Lent and all it stands for to be sanctioned by the scriptures, nor can anyone else.

Website:http://www.apostolic-faith.org/contents.html

[stmatthew]

To all that hold to a non-celebration of these "pagan holidays", I ask a question.

Do you celebrate birthdays??

I want to say that any time we build our doctrine upon anything other than the word of God, we will find ourself using all kinds of external sources that cannot be fully verified as true to prove our position. The book "The Two Babylons" is used by many to convey that Holidays are a Catholic-Pagan practice. Yet it is riddled with inconsistencies and part truths. Are any of you so sure of your sources that you would be willing to condemn a person to hell where the bible has not.

Please tell me where the bible states that it is a sin to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Where does the bible list the celebration of the birth of Christ as pagan worship. Chapter and verse please.

[Nawbee]

So, those who worship God on Easter are worshipping in vain???

Those who tell their children that the egg is God's representation of rebirth are pagans???

Those who thank God for providing food for them not only on this day but all days have sinned???

You all (those who proffer such as God Breathed) need to realize that to defend the doctrine of Christ Jesus is not to hysterically invent an anti-Catholic/pagan/whatever doctrine and present it as a set of unbreakable RULES that do not accomodate a little thing called: Life!

Stick to the Truth Revealed to you by the Spirit of God and there will be no confussion!

Even the Catholics have a form of Godliness! It is in denying the Power therein that they worship in vain.

If you deny the Power as well in favor of man made fears and rituals that only condemn, you are no better off.

[jbenjesus]

Originally posted by ddc101
Bro.J,
Have you ever done a giftedness profile? You have many of the leadership skills to become a gifted teacher.The reason I said this earlier is that the things that bother you in reading posts are the things that would bother a teacher.The point is to share ideas and think for yourself which I think you do very well.lv sis.c Hello Sis. Cooper,

I did a giftedness profile many years ago when I started this journey to truly know Him. Back then I was very service oriented. I've got it somewhere stashed away.

I haven't done one recently, but your observations is probably right on the money.

I believe my wife and her "spiritual" mom would totally agree. They think the same thing.

For some reason God made us teachers that way. We get caught up in details sometimes.

I guess that is why I teach in our home group. Gotta go with what God has dealt you. To be anything else is to be a fraud.

Thank you for the last line compliment.

I've become less involved in these kinds of threads because it really comes down to a personal conviction. Not necessarily a conviction of the Spirit, but nevertheless a personal conviction to please the Lord. Which is why there is so much disparity even amongst apostlics on the issue of holidays (dress standards, hair standards etc.).

There are some outright issues, such as Halloween, that we apostolics don't disagree for the most part, but other holidays that can be so easily tied to truth, it really just becomes, "To him who a thing is pure, it is pure and to him who think it a sin, it is sin."

If your conscience bugs you about it, whether due to lack of maturity or because it is relaying to you what the Spirit is actually saying, then don't do it or participate in it.

If your consience doesn't bug you, whether due to maturity in your walk with God (i.e. Paul, the apostle) or because the Spirit simply says "I don't have a problem with thatt", then go ahead and feel free.

I think the problem is many times, we have not discerned whether the voice we hear is our own conscience, or the voice of the Spirit.

So we easily say, "Well the Lord told me it was wrong..." and therefore you don't do something, when it may well have actually been your own weak conscience doesn't allow you do that.

But "we" (who knows if I'm included) who are mature, who know of the freedom we have in Christ need to quietly and non-abrasively allow others to come to that maturity in their walk and be patient.

Paul said for the sake of the weaker bretheren, I will not eat meat.

We read that and don't think Paul was being arrogant, but if we say that today, then we are labeled as arrogant.

Since, that is true, I usually steer clearl of these threads. Even though I have my abiding convictions, I don't put those convictions upon others regarding these issues of holidays and standards.

[tufluv]

:grumble: :grumble: FUTILITY as its best. :grumble:
No one is condemning anyone to hell, where is that quote here, BTW? Where are rabbits and colored eggs mentioned as good acceptable christian "acts" to do in remembrance of the LORD's resurrection, chapter & verse, please. I have not found in the bible where the apostles took their kids on boiled&colored egg hunts, left by a rabbitt? Show us!
To even have any debate? on these things astounds me, that people will do or say anything to justify doing the things that are just worldly customs, and then say its to honor our LORD!
And to take anything said here regarding this pagan practice off into other tangents is :lame:
NOTHING will justify compromise with the world. Period.
Of course, there are many other practices we have that have questionable origins, there WAS history before us, we did not just come into being, BUT, a person having been "born again" by acts2:38 salvation/grace, is starting "over" on a foundation already established by the apostles due to JESUS' death & resurrection, FOR US! Because of HIS great love for us.
And we have a duty to become as discerning (thanx to the HG)
as possible, and live accordingly. If one knows that doing something, may not be, honorable, or respectful to, GOD, if there's any question about it, why do it? Just 'cause everyone else is doing it? Its harmless? Okay! WHATEVER!
But, I am not saying it will condemn someone to hell, we all have freedom of choice., thank GOD.
THANKFULLY to many, this is my last POST on this issue. Nothing left to be said., except: TO GOD BE THE GLORY!

[stmatthew]

In His Service Post # 142

Why do we time after time speak to those who need to obey Acts 2:38 or who do not understand the oneness of God? Because it is important to obey the truth.

Leaving these days behind as we are told is part of the Truth also. One that many don't want to do, but according to the Word of God needed to make heaven.

Sis Tufluv,

Some are making it a heaven or hell issue.

I say again that the only way to escape pagan roots is to worship under the jewish faith, as everything external to that is pagan.

Paul states plainly that the meat offered to idols is nothing. There is no other God. It is only because of a weaker saint that you need to obstain from eating it. All things are lawful, but all things are not profitable. You don't observe a day, and I do. We both do it unto the Lord. I have yet to find solid scripture that states a boiled, colored egg will send my soul to hell.

The $1,000,000 question is.............

Is it a sin to celebrate Easter, Christmas, or any other holiday??

Anyone wanna answer??

If it is, please show solid biblical evidence that it is. If not stop preaching it as a heaven or hell issue.

JMHO

[Nawbee]

To Sis tufluv:
Where is driveing a car so mentioned? Where is Walking on a sidewalk so mentioned? Where is flying in an airplane so mentioned?

Are we to believe that since a thing isn't specifically mentioned as Godly and wholesome that we are to PRESUME that it is demonic and pagan?

Come one now, you don't think saying that someone is engaging in pagan worship is condemning them?

As for what is or isn't a "Heaven or Hell" issue:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Having these fulfilled in Jesus Christ is the ONLY Heaven or Hell issue!

So, if it has anything to do with what you think, do, feel, own or are, as it realtes to God or other human beings, it's a "Heaven or Hell" issue.

;)

If you believe in your heart that it is a sin to celebrate Easter, to YOU it then becomes a sin for all that is done in doubt is sin and God Judges by the heart. However, if you are like I and know that all the past history of a thing is just that: Past history, and that God made all things to enjoy, then take the opportunity to preach Jesus and Him crucified in all things, even colored eggs and jelly beans.

If however you seek to impose your own doctrine and preach a Jesus who is hateful and impotent except He first check in with you about what is and isn't proper and you negate the Word of God Given to Paul, then there is only one response. That response is to say in Love, "Repent ere it is too late!"

If you insist and seek to pull down lambs then the Staff of God will seek out the crease of your skull and your might downfall will serve as a warning for all who oppose the Freedom Bought by Jesus on the cross for his children.

If you honor the day, honor it to God in Jesus Christ and if you do not observe the day, make your nonobservance to Jesus Christ.

Do not seek to force as the Words of God your own personal convictions (made in the freedom of Christ, BTW) upon another.

[Xerf]

I think the real individuals that should be worked up about Easter are RABBITS!
To be forced into dying vats of various hues and tied up with bows!
To be caged and laughed at and then dumped as soon as the celebration is ended!
To be accused of being chicken! (Who else lays eggs?)
To be made to sit in every mall and let snotty-nosed kids set on thier lap for some foolish photo! (Not to mention going blind from 10,0000 camera flashes a day!)
To be pushed into some confining basket!

ENOUGH! I SAY!!

DOWN WITH EASTER AND ALL EASTEREES!!

(from the rabbitt council of rabbit affairs for rabbits -- RCRAR)

[tufluv]

OKAY, my OFFICIAL last response:
If however you seek to impose your own doctrine and preach a Jesus who is hateful and impotent except He first check in with you about what is and isn't proper and you negate the Word of God Given to Paul, then there is only one response. That response is to say in Love, "Repent ere it is too late!"
:eek:
Well, you done did it now! You have set yourself up for my GOD to "deal" with you, for false assumptions/accusations, and general disrespect for what HE says through me! Don't say you weren't warned! Many people have faced his wrath for similar treatment of HIS chosen, and thats not to brag, HE "avenges" for me, HIS WORD, and as HE is sovreign, I know not WHAT he will do, only that HE will. HAVE A NICE DAY ;)
p.s. Quit putting words into my mouth...Shame on You!
(storming off to the 'let off steam' room :redcool: )

XERF: YOU make a valid point! shall we "free the rabbits" now that the Iraqi's have been freed! Lets not quit NOW!

[dllong]

Celebrate Birthdays?

Heavens NO!

I haven't celebrated one of my birthdays since I turned 40. :)

Birthdays depress me and are a severe fire hazard...

Dave

[foreverblessed]

Don't worry about it Dave, you don't need too. Several could pass, and you would never miss them. What's your secret to lookin so young?

[dllong]

There is no secret, (in my opinion) a curse of heredity. Trust me, most men do not relish the idea looking younger then they should. This one thing I do know...it will all catch up to me someday. GUARANTEED! It will be like waking up from a long sleep and realizing I have aged 20 years in only 5. Lord Jesus, come quickly I pray.

Dave

[committed]

InHisService,
I am not talking about leaving people alone once we have won them to God....
I believe we ARE our brother's keepers no matter how long they have lived for God. Some mature quickly.....but most do not. Why put chains on them that is not really in the Word of God. Many times on this thread posters have quoted Rom. 14, Col. 2 and I Cor. 10 and yet you still ignore those scriptures....hanging only on old testament scriptures. What about the scripture that says to rightly divide the word of truth......you have to take the old testament and the new. Jesus was a perfect example of balance. I do not feel it is a sin to believe like you do, nor do I believe it is a sin to not believe like you do. I DO believe it is a SIN to judge others by your own convictions, and I DO believe it can be a sin, if you put too heavy of a burden and shackles on others whether they be old christians or new...that is no one's job but God's and when and if He speaks, it is not a hard thing......

[John Atkinson]

I gotta admit, I would love to look 20 again, most of all I would love to FEEL 20 again. Instead of 41, feeling about 60.

[committed]

Bro. John,
41 is soooooooo young...I'll never see that again. Many times I have asked myself, if I could, would I go back to a younger age....then remembering all the lessons, all the trials....whew! ain't no way!! I may be closer to the grave, but at least I have learned some lessons that our God wanted me to learn. I surely wouldn't want to go back and maybe not learn them.....yuck!! :)

[In His Service]

Committed,
I will take a little time soon to answer your last post. My wife is wanting to check her email.

Might I ask you if Col 2 is speaking about the jewish customs or pagan?

Thanks
Timothy

[Truthseeker]

stmatthew states:

To all that hold to a non-celebration of these "pagan holidays", I ask a question.

Do you celebrate birthdays??

I want to say that any time we build our doctrine upon anything other than the word of God, we will find ourself using all kinds of external sources that cannot be fully verified as true to prove our position. The book "The Two Babylons" is used by many to convey that Holidays are a Catholic-Pagan practice. Yet it is riddled with inconsistencies and part truths. Are any of you so sure of your sources that you would be willing to condemn a person to hell where the bible has not.

Please tell me where the bible states that it is a sin to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Where does the bible list the celebration of the birth of Christ as pagan worship. Chapter and verse please.




ME: So one pagan act justifes another? The subject is the celebration of the pagan customs of easter not the resurrection. The pagan custom have nothing to do with the resurrection. The point of the discusision is if it right to celebrate easter which is not determined by if one celebrates another holiday or not.

[Truthseeker]

The $1,000,000 question is.............

Is it a sin to celebrate Easter, Christmas, or any other holiday??

Anyone wanna answer??

I don't believe it's pleasing to God so I guess I do believe it's sin.

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally posted by John Atkinson
Romans 14:5-6
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

There you have it, the only "Truth" in the word concerning holidays. Regard them if you want, don't if you want, but either way, unto the Lord. Bro Rob, why do you dispute this? It's from the book!

Teaching that a holiday is sin, is a terrible stretch. Teaching or believing that eating a ham dinner is a sin, is laughable. I am in total disbelief, Ddc!

Doesn't the bible say, you will be cursed, if you add to the doctrine?

[Truthseeker]

Drummerboy




I'm not disputing scripture just pagan customs.


I've notice when discusising this subject people usually go off on tangets adding and twisting what i've said. Classic.

Where did I say a HolyDAY is sin?

BTW: What is a Holy Day?

Where did I said eating a ham is sin?

The scriptures are talking about one esteeming a DAY higher then another DAY not partaking of pagan worship practices.
Let's not make it say something different.


It doesn't say one custom is esteemed higher then another, but a DAY.


The subject is the pagan customs of easter not food, not the day itself , but the customs practiced.

Do you agree that the customs as well as the name of easter originated in paganism?

God bless

[tufluv]

WAY TO GO, Bro. Rob! Thanx!
Oops, did I say I would not post on this anymore? Well this one is a bit of an exception! :D
BTW: have you seen XERF?

[Truthseeker]

Keep posting this is the fun stuff.

I can't wait til sun-mass. :) Hopefully I can beat Sister Cooper in starting the sun-mass thread.


BTW To all my Bro and Sis on the board. I have strong convictions about this issue, but at the same time I'm not the jusge of your life, but at the same time I'm not afraid to discuss what i believe about pagan customs.



God Bless ya all

[In His Service]

Bro. Rob and sister Tufluv,
So many people when wanting to use the Word of God in defense of days rooted in paganism forget what the Word of God was speaking of in references to, Holy Days and feast days. It was not, I repeat, was not speaking of pagan customs in Col. 2. In 1Cor. 10 we read that we are to not to eat if we have the knowledge of where it came from.

There is so much more that is so plain to see, why are eyes clouded so.

Why would an apostolic that has decided they wanted to set aside a day to remember Christ death and resurrection do it on a day steeped in paganism that isn't even near when the passover would have been? Are we to mix the ungodly with the Godly and not think it be tainted? What does the Word of God say, someone please go read it and share!!

If we are to remember the time of passover which is when Christ went to the cross, what did he show to do in the rememberance of it? Talk about bunnies, hide egg for kids, Put Ishtars name on a day we say we are doing things unto him one in rememberance of his death?

Can someone not see? Please Lord open thier eyes to your Word!!!!!

Prayers for all,
Bro. Timothy

[tufluv]

Amen to that, Bro.Timothy!

[Truthseeker]

Tufluv

Admit it you want to keep posting on this thread!

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally posted by Truthseeker
The $1,000,000 question is.............

Is it a sin to celebrate Easter, Christmas, or any other holiday??

Anyone wanna answer??

I don't believe it's pleasing to God so I guess I do believe it's sin.

[ddc101]

Drummer Boy,
You are trying your best to undermine my personal convictions.
You asked if I would go to your house and celebrate easter.I said I would not as to me it would be sin.I am not adding to anything.
I do not think it is fair if you do celebrate these things to try and make those with personal convictions out to be lawkeepers.That is going too far and you may have to answer to the Lord for behaving in such a manner.I personally feel that to mock a persons convictions is dangerous ground.lv sis.c

[ddc101]

Hi Bro.Rob,
Years ago I read the book Two Babylons.It had nothing to do with the reason I feel about holidays.Lots of what that man stated was very far fetched.But I do consider that the early church did not celebrate EASTER.In fact they did not celebrate any pagan holidays.As far as birthdays are concerned when you are a woman my age it get farther and farther between.But when we celebrated my daughters this year my mom in law who is apostolic..said....make a wish and blow out the candles.Something inside of me stirred.It bothered me.It never had before.I started reading up on it.For one thing witches seal their spells with candles and then the spell and then they blow them out.So from now on they get the cake but none of that stuff.lv sis.c

[tufluv]

Well, Bro.Rob, true, I just don't like words being put into my mouth, know what I mean...TRUTH is a priority for me, honesty is like one of the top requisites for a godly walk, or SHOULD be, I'd think. If ever I have had a pet peeve, it is dishonesty. My husband can attest to that! Its the one thing that can "set me off" still! Being falsely accused, or misquoted- :realmad:
I think its the intent behind those situations, that get me-for I know who is behind the scenes., and I NEVER, condemned anyone to that "H" word, for practicing traditions that have pagan origins. Thats not my department! :D
I'm sure many feel that way, I'm noone special-except to my JESUS. I am a fair person. Injustice does not sit well with me.
Anyway, GOD BLESS YOU, brother ROB, and my question still remains-anyone seen XERF!?? (thank GOD for comic relief!) :D

TOP NEWS STORY HEADLINES:
NATIONWIDE MANHUNT FOR THE XERFMAN!!

I've already had our city post an APB out for him, if he's found, they are to rope& haul him in - to my freshly cleaned-out spacious, garage/extra room! Heheh! A place of refuge/sanctuary for the fugitive from the GNC! :D (silly, yes-I know!)

The saga continues...
(taking notes for the XERF: THE MOVIE] LOL

BTW: SIS COOPER, my apologies for getting WAY :nt:
I'll STOP now. Please continue brethren, the wabbits are waiting to be freed!

[ddc101]

Sis.Tufluv,
I thought about you today.I have a friend that is doing a work across the Mexican border.They came for our conference this year.They are fairly new to oneness but what a blessing they are doing with it there.Their names are the Goodmans...Kenneth and Alma.They have two sons.One is wheelchair bound.He is 14 years old and a real cutie.lv sis.c

[BroDane]

The KEY is YOU believe it is Sin so, YOU shouldnt do it! If...YOU believe it to be sin...

(everyday is Holy to me..I am the Lords, thus I am Holy, so, all days are Holy to me)

Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

[ddc101]

There is a very good tape available from The Pentecostals of Alexandria from a BOTT conference in the 80's.Bro.Murriell Ewing preached a message entitled Early Altars.I wept so much during that message.Its worth the price of the tape.It speaks alot about consecration and committments.I never made light of another persons convictions after hearing that.lv sis.c

[tufluv]

Wow, I'd love to see a pic of him, if you get one, someday!
New to oneness? Thats great! Thats almost the best time...fresh, new insight, "in love with the LORD" time, sorta like the "honeymoom" period...which unlike in the fleshly realm, can actually last forever and ever, AMEN, with the LORD! WE, the bride will be in perpetual honeymoon bliss!!
I know I still AM! Halleluyah! :bow:

P.S. OH WOW, I just read your post about the candles! Wow again...something I did not know, but it does sound relevant to their practices..they DO use candles a lot., knowing this from seeing my niece with her Wicka ways. Sad thing.

See now thats how it is with me., A LOT, something will nudge at me too, (HG!) as if something is not quite right with a situation that has been normal before, as in worldly celebrations/holidays? My own carnal family is very upset with me for not doing as we've always done., at Xmas especially.

Its just that I feel as if I've already wasted so-o much time in ignorance, that now it is imperative to be very very careful, aware, and enlightened to as much as possible, to be properly "armed" for spiritual warfare, there's an enemy around every corner., every crack, crevice...we must walk in the brightest light possible, to not miss a thing! To 'SEE', as JESUS would have us.
Amazing, ain't it!? I count myself blessed to have this opportunity to do something worthy before I leave this world.
Knowing that my "room" is being prepared in the many mansions of my FATHER, leaves little room for despair while here, but instead, propels an urgency to take as many with me as possible!

So-o, the fact that I may seem to many to be "prudish" towards normal, human pleasures such as appreciating the holiday-ish traditions I used to love so, but I just have so much more higher goals to pursue! seek after, "run the race!" :yeah:

[ddc101]

Heres the address for Sister Goodman
God's Heartbeat
401 South 35th Street
Mc Allen, Texas 78501
Her name is Sis.Alma.Send her a card and tell her Sis.Cooper told you about her.She needs more fellowship.lv sis.c

[searching]

Pagans use candles??? Does that mean if I continue to burn them in my house I am a practicing pagan Christian?

I wonder if pagans used Scotissue for their paperwork...

Me...

[ddc101]

Searching,
It it not the candles that bothered me.It was that they were lit and a wish was made then they were blown out to seal the wish.
Have you ever read up on actual pagan religon...or wicca?

[tufluv]

Will do, Sister Cooper! I have been down there in McAllen, just this past Oct.2002, for a wonderful convention in tribute to our missionaries, I got to for the first time ever, be cruising around that town, NEVER KNOWING, of this other sister!
Maybe we'll be down there soon, we have lots of district activities near there, in Donna, TX.
My sisRosie and I were down there about 3 wks ago, when we got really LOST! We were headed to Weslaco, TX, all in the same general area as McAllen, even, and we arrived very late to the services :cry: , she was scared, I was not-I was driving!
I knew my LORD would not let anything happen to us, she's just a big baby! I was more frustrated than anything, wanting so much to be at that service, and we did get there for the last 1/3 of it, and got into a huge blessing! Praise God!
Anway, we also got lost on the way back, and wound up in Brownsville, Tx!! yup, boy did I feel dumb! But the freeways there are awful, down in the Valley, ask her, they're really dark at night., thats when we were there lost in the darkness (metaphorical?)-naw!
Again, I better go now! GOD BLESS!

[drummerboy_dave]

Truly, we've been through all this so many times! There is more than enough information here. Anyone with a shred of common sense, can decide for themselves where to align their heart.

I honestly, didn't set out, to ruffle your feathers, Ddc. And, I don't mean to imply that you alone, are guilty of adding to the gospel, that which is not required. Many fine folks do that.

You stated that God told you not to eat the ham; very well. I am inclinded to ask if this is just at easter time or always, but I won't.

The word says, that we aren't to hate each other, over the things which we eat. I certainly have no ought, nor do I believe it to be in you. I simply found it to be histerical, when you said you wouldn't eat something because you felt it was sinful, when Jesus plainly said, that what goes into a man's mouth can not defile him.

Tufluv, I have held my fingers long enough. I have watched you make these statements continually.

You believe it is sinful to celebrate easter, but you are not condemed anyone to hell.

Well what, my dear, will put one into hell besides sin? If your preaching that something is sinful, and I am doing that which you are preaching against, then by God, it will put me in hell! Provided, of course, you have the word to back you up, which you don't.

Bro. Tim, I have yet to see scriptures, backing the doctrine you are propagating. I certainly had hoped you would have displayed them by now [some 200 posts in this thread?]. Get them ready, Christmas is coming!

Peace out all!

[searching]

I am sure there are some things that I do as a "ritual" in my life that the pagans did also. This doesn't make me a pagan practicer. The pagans held parties, does this mean parties are pagan? The pagans lit candles, does this mean those who do are pagans? The pagans ate meat, does this mean meat eaters are pagans?

I don't do things pagans do because they happened to do them also. I do all for Christ.

Me...

[tufluv]

TO: D.DAVE (and whomever else has a bone to pick with me regarding Easter)

MY GOODNESS:
It seems my harmless statements of MY preferences in not including the mixed assortment of pagan-origin practices,
with the observation/celebration of Christ's resurrection, strikes a major nerve in some persons!
We-e-l-lll! To each his own, is my response. If your conscience bothers you, don't blame me! Must I continuosly have to ask: show me where I stated you (or anyone) will go to hell?
For merely doing what YOU choose to do, that I DO NOT do? Geez, get real.You don't answer to me!
I did not point fingers at anyone, so get over it! Anything that bothers anyone, is not by my hand. On this holiday deemed to be a day in memorium of that wonderful resurrection of my LORD, JESUS CHRIST, I will be basking in the wonder & majesty of it all.

Why worry about sin? Thought that SIN was washed away in the baptismal waters during which THE NAME OF JESUS was invoked!
To call submitting MY spiritual discernment in relation to pagan rituals as [proclamation of sin against someone/anyone] is totally unfounded, you have no 'legal cause' against me, and its plain absurd.

ABSURD: adj. contrary to common-sense
The American Heritage Dictionary.

Quit this insanity, already! Dontcha gotta go pick out some Easter baskets, or something? Tie down some eggs, slap some paint on em? Devour an unsuspecting chocolate bunny or something?

MAY a CATHOLIC bust a confetti-filled EGG on your head!
(oops-that should go under the 'letting off steam' thread-my mistake :D)

[stmatthew]

Sis Cooper,

The book "The two Babylons" is riddled with inconsistencies and part truths in an attempt to show the Catholic Church as a pagan church.

The problem I see is that if I am against Easter, all my research would be geared at proving it wrong, thus bias. If I am for Easter the same bias research toward proving its ok.

Why don't we stick to the bible. There is no sin within an egg, colored or not.

Next thing you know jelly beans will be a sin!! hehehehe

[stmatthew]

BTW sis,

I would never feed you swine if you come to my home at Easter time, as we are fried chicken eaters at my house. :D

[stmatthew]

Let me also say that I hold no hard feeling toward anyone here. I love each of you. If we disagree, that is fine. I would never knowingly try to offend any of you. And if my post ever seem harsh, know that it is not intended. Any time I feel tension, I try to make a little funny to break it.

My only contention is when things are made a sin and a heaven and hell issue, and no scripture is given to substansually back that claim up. If your conscience does not allow you do do something, then you should not. I have been there. yet unless you got a mandate from God with chapter and verse, it needs to remain a personal conviction. (tufluv, this is not posted toward you as you have just posted what you found. It is others that have made it a salvation issue)

[John Atkinson]

I am thinking about doing Emeril Laggasse's BBQ Brisket :)

http://abcnews.go.com/onair/GoodMorningAmerica/recipes/GMA000901_BBQ_Brisket.html


FTR - StMatt said it right in #142 above.

[ddc101]

Bro.Drummerboy,


You stated that God told you not to eat the ham; very well. I am inclinded to ask if this is just at easter time or always, but I won't

Go back and read my post that you are referring to.I did not state the above statement.lv sis.c

[ddc101]

Bro.John,
Emeril has some very good recipes.Since the tv is on 24-7 at work I sometimes put it on the cooking show all day.But it really is bad to do on a fast day.The Emeril show is one of my favorite....
so all I can say brother is Kick it up! sis.c

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally posted by ddc101
Bro.Drummerboy Dave,
No I would not eat the ham nor the eggs.I did that stuff for years.God spoke to my heart not to.If I did it to me it would be sin.

[drummerboy_dave]

Tufluv,

Even if I had the energy to disect your last post to me, I doubt that I would. Judging by your words, I am left to presume, that you didn't try to understand, that which I had hoped to convey.

But, I will tell you, that my concience does not bother me at all. What does bothers me though, are the countless people who very eagerly, preach their [biblically unfounded] convictions before the brethren. Claiming that if we do not meet them, we are falling short of the requirements of God.

[committed]

Amen Drummerboy!! And again I say Amen!!

I have a problem, Sis. DDC......I don't mean to be harsh or anything, but why would God tell you not to eat pork, when he told died in the wool Jew to "kill and eat" and not just once but three times? Acts 10:9-16. Would God contradict His own words, which were "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common".....you may argue that He cleansed it, but doesn't He do that every time we pray for His blessings on our food? The scripture doesn't show anything different. You may argue it wasn't pigs, but it said every manner of fourfooted (which pigs are) beasts......I am not being a smart aleck, I just have never understood people who believe that when God's own words say something else. I Timothy 4:3
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
I have kknown a few who believe as you, and would like to understand. I know what the old testament teaches......but..??

[In His Service]

Committed,
I suggest you go back and read Dc post. She is not talking as I read it about it being pork. It has to do that it is being done againt what God has revealed to her is a day that is not biblical but based on pagan ways.

We must becareful not to read anothers response and then base our post to the original poster if we are not sure of what they say.

Check before posting is a good rule of thumb on these boards,
Bro. timothy

[BroDane]

I have a question for Everyone here!!

1. Has God EVER told you that something you were doing was Wrong even if ALL around you said it was Alright, Biblical and Ok? Or that God told you something was Right even if everyone around you said it was Wrong?

He has told me, for various reasons, that certain things that I believed or did were right/wrong and that I needed to change...

a. For someones elses weak concience
b. For my concience
c. Just because He said so...Then LATER, AFTER I obeyed..I
found out why.

In other words.. as sis Ddc said, FOR ME, IT WAS SIN.. She didnt say all you were sinners if you did..she said..for Me... I believe that disobedience to God is sin and if He tells ya not to do certain things then DONT! She was obeying God in her concience.. I agree sister Dana

We can find circumstances in the Bible where God said: You Cannot do this or that to one person and said You CAN do this or Do that to another..The point is:

God might say YOU cannot do this or That..If YOU(Me & You) DISOBEY God..It is sin

If somebody wants to eat pork or not eat pork its ok by me....What I wanna know is.....

DO YOU LOVE MY JESUS?

[tufluv]

AMEN! Bro. Dane, and it should be as obvious as that smile on your face, that I DO LOVE MY JESUS! even my pic indicates it!
I've only said it on this forum, oh about 100 times so far! I've always wondered and even once stated, why others don't seem to find time to praise HIM, here, and not just bicker about who's right/wrong, (although I'm not saying we should not discuss).
LOVE makes obedience automatic!! :angel:

[committed]

To all here.....
I truly was asking Sis. ddc, I was not belittling her or anyone else....I have had dear friends that believed that way, and I felt on this board I could feel free to ask, knowing what the scripture said....whether it be a holiday or just normal life style. I did not belittle Sis ddc, and the responses here are not kind.
I am sorry I upset you all, I was not trying to. Some have implied that if a person did not believe as they do, those people would be lost.....It always good to look at both sides and weigh out the matter.......

[BroDane]

Sis Committed, Your post was fine, you can ask questions.

I am refering to peoples comments about sis Ddc's remark that she said..If I did it to me it would be sin and a comment about Tufluvs By Dummerboy: What does bothers me though, are the countless people who very eagerly, preach their convictions before the brethren. Claiming that if we do not meet them, we are falling short of the requirements of God.

I didnt see where Ddc or Tufluv said anything else other than what God spoke to Them about certain things in Their life to stop doing .

Also, Drummerboy, Concerning your comments about tufluv.... If I am wrong Drummerboy feel free to show me sis Ddc posts and Tufluvs where she did say such things and I will apologize for getting strong..

However..If I am right, then Drummerboy, Please Back off a little on the Heavy, You-said-this-stuff in your posts, Concerning what seemed to be directed to sis Ddc & Tufluv.

Either-way please show me a post..I read em..but I didnt see what drummerboy said about them

Here is a excerpt from the GNC rules which are posted below:

[B]On other matters of doctrine, feel free to post your views supported with scripture. It is okay to disagree, just let the conversation flow, letting go of the need to prove yourself right. Remember, the truth needs no defense, so let go of your fleshy pride and ego. Use your anonymity to humble yourself and learn. There is no injury in this, only benefit. We can all learn from each other. If the issue is an important one and all involved are truly seeking truth, then prayerful discussion and study of God's word will reveal it.

People are NOT censored here as was suggested by others, rather, we Moderate and Do Not want to see Disunity, Dissention & Damage to a person(s) just because they believe in Non-Salvation-dependant Issues of which are best left open to the Holy Ghost conviction power. Remember this too:

We can all learn from each other. If the issue is an important one and all involved are truly seeking truth, then prayerful discussion and study of God's word will reveal it.

Teaching strong and THEN calling someone here a name AINT what a SAINT ought to be doin! (Teachin strong is ok)

Click here to read up on the guidelines>>> http://www.goodnewscafe.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51

When we see people attacking others verbally we jump in to put a halt to it. Post as strong as you want..Do not call any Apostolic here a sinner, reprobate, Pagan or other demeaning word(s)
(Its ok to say you dont agree with someone but Dont attack the person!)

A little Bunny rabbit said this long ago:
IF YA CANT SAY SOMETHING NICE DONT SAY NUTHIN AT ALL!

I am not mad or against anyone, I am however, a man of God who will put my foot on the breaks when I see someone headin for a Verbal car crash!!!!!

Post away Friends!

[drummerboy_dave]

I regret, that I have allowed myself to be upset by the lunacy of this tread, and I humbly and openly ask for forgiveness by all parties.

Bro Dane, I will try to track the progression of this discussion and the cause of my outburst, and deliver it to you by private messenger or email. I hope that will be sufficient.

[drummerboy_dave]

Bro Dane,

Here is the notation, I promised. It seems rather elementary, that I should prepare for you a timeline of events, but here it is, none the less.

Because of the possible implications, I have decided to keep this out, for the public to scrutinize.

The following statements, were indeed, made by Sis. Tufluv including dates and times. Highly objectionable comments, will be in bold.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You know, I NEVER had any idea anything we did was wrong, and noone ever said anything-had anyone said anything, I MIGHT have gone and researched for myself, thats how I am, at least now, but back then, it being such a large part of normal, everybody does it kinda thing, it may not have had much impact.
Things like I KNEW that alcohol is bad for you, but did it anyway., etc.etc.
And as for even showing people this tract, I think that at the very least, it plainly states a fact., and people having or near to having the HolyGhost, will be convicted of this, to a certain degree, hopefully. I have sent my son and his wife a copy of this info submitted on this thread. It may not stop them yet, and thats okay, but eventually, as they grow in the spirit, and they are going to church regularly and receiving home bible studies, it WILL make a difference, it will "sink" in!
It takes much conviction, no compromise, to STOP these pagan practices, and there's many more! The light that the LORD shows me is the same light HE can show them, and many others!
LIGHT reveals TRUTH, and TRUTH never changes!
HALLELUYAH! GLORY TO GOD!


__________________
JOHN 14:1-3: "IN my Fathers house are many mansions..."

04-12-2003 12:50 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Most people who celebrate the worldy holiday called "Easter" are generally ignorant of its pagan roots.
THOSE who know, and do it anyway, to them it is sin.
No one wants to admit, acknowledge that they are indeed worshipping these "idols", but that does not change the fact that it is a deceptive tool of satan, to get their minds off of JESUS, by worshipping traditions of men!
INTENTS have little to do with the facts and repercussions.
There was a time I "intended" to just loosen up, relax, have a good time, when I drank, not giving atttention to the eventual repercussions. That did not change the fact that I was sinning against GOD, had no regard for HIM, and was merely out for my own benefits, and paid the price by become enslaved to that.
Anyone, in darkness, can justify sinning against GOD. Thats why we "the saints" have our job cut out for us in enlightening these misguided folks, of the realities of the pagan roots of their doings., in HOPES that they might see the error of their ways, one at a time, and turn to the one who died for them! JESUS!
And gradually come to the realization of the need for remission of their sins, and to be saved, via acts2:38, and live a life for Christ!
JUST MY THOUGHTS!
(I firmly believe that this holiday is pagan worship). PERIOD!


__________________
JOHN 14:1-3: "IN my Fathers house are many mansions..."

04-13-2003 11:44 AM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Brother Dane and all,

As I had read the above comments, it appeared to me, that Sis Tufluv was preaching "the sin" of Easter. When someone preaches something is a sin, then they should have scripture to back it up. Don't you agree?

Well, nobody has produced any such scripture, just assumptions. In fact, some have scoffed at the scripture given, which purpose that we should not take our brothers to task, who do or don't agree with our practices outside of salvation.

I have not condemed anyone for believing Easter is paganistic. I condem them for preaching to us, it is sin. Due to the fact, scripture was in my corner, I felt compelled to tell her of her error, thusly at 3:03 am on 4-16-03:

Tufluv, I have held my fingers long enough. I have watched you make these statements continually.

You believe it is sinful to celebrate easter, but you are not condemed anyone to hell.

Well what, my dear, will put one into hell besides sin? If your preaching that something is sinful, and I am doing that which you are preaching against, then by God, it will put me in hell! Provided, of course, you have the word to back you up, which you don't.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope you will be able to follow the logic, which brought me to this conclusion.

Regarding your other request. I realize you and Ddc are moderators, with the power to remove me from the cafe' and I do pray, that I am not treading on thin ice, because of my candor. I thought we were all adults here.

Ddc and I, were having a hypothretical discussion, in which she claimed she would not eat an Easter ham if she were present at my home on Easter, because God told her not to. I do not find any of my remarks to her, to be offensive. After some thought, I think she herself, would tell you that they are not.

Finally, I am happy to be given the opportunity do defend my remarks. I heavily consider, each and every word that I post, just in case a misunderstanding like this, takes place. I have never wished to cause strife among the brethren. I have never wished to offend. I have never wished to undermine anything.

I had hoped, to no avail, to point out the obvious holes in some of my sisters' arguments.

I will be sure to refrain from this discussion, again.

[BroDane]

Drummerboy,

Thank you for posting, I agree that Easters origins are pagan and so many other so-called Holy-days are too. I do not partake of Pagan stuff.

I will not tell you are if you choose that line of thought..

For everyone here, Bro John has asked as I will now, Not to call our Apostolics friends here Pagan, sinners ect. I have read here that hints to that....

Drummerboy, You believe what you believe Tufluvs believes what she believes, you are both convinced, so maybe you can try Not to convince each other is wrong...

Now, lets go foward from here, neither of you needs to explain more, its a hot topic..

:idea: Love each other in Jesus name...

[In His Service]

Bro. Dane,
I enjoyed your post.
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

ps
will this topic continued to be open?
Thanks
Bro. Timothy

[BroDane]

Thats Bro Johns call, If he sees name calling or strong hinting of name calling then he will shut it down. :realmad:

If he sees christians getting strong without bashing, flaming or Insinuating sin then it will stay open.

We have a Zero tolerance for disunity, combined with a fervant Love for souls. :tup:

[tufluv]

Here you go, an ode to the beloved of some, holiday, of family fun, and celebrating, and pigging out!
"Here comes Peter Cottontail, hopping down the bunny trail, hippity hoppity Easter's on its way"...!

I used to love the Easter times as a child, we'd always go visit relatives out of town, etc.etc., and I'd sing this song we learned in public school, but I now 'sing a new song' to the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, and I will now celebrate it for HIS honor and glory, as many generations before me have also done, by observing HIS resurrection , which made mine possible, period...while at home I will be reading scripture, praying, and fasting except for the passover bread with the LORD's Supper at church, and that's my own way to honor my LORD, I have always said here that its all a personal choice, when all is said and done. :angel:

If I have said anything rude, I apologize, and I also am human enough to be upset sometimes, when push comes to shove!
I'm by no means 'perfect' but will be one glorious day, when my JESUS I shall see, and I would like HIM to find me as spotless as possible and to that end, I proceed with all my heart, soul, and mind. :bow:
HALLELUYAH! GOD BLESS EVERYONE! LOVE TO ALL!

[BroDane]

Well that just goes to show you that you are human like most of us here, some others..well, I just aint sure about!:laugh:

[In His Service]

Sister Tufluv,
I to have not meant to offend anyone with my post. They have come across in a strong manner because of the burning desire that God, not I, has placed within my soul. It would be eaiser to not be called all manner of names and have others question if you are human, :~)!!! Believe me!

I have made many mistakes in my life. I have had to learn many hard lessons in my walk with God. God has dealt with me to deal with some on this board in a different manner as he leads. Where he leads me I will follow.

I have nothing to gain by making others angry, that is not my intent. I do not want to stir someone to the point that they get angry and begin calling names. That benefits no one.

Let us all work on Iron sharpening Iron. If a rough edge comes up, lets grind it down and keep going. One mind and one accord is what we have to achieve to be "The Body of Christ".

Again my apologies to all and lets learn from His Word,
Bro. Timothy

[ddc101]

Hi Friends,
I have been busy as its my workweek.Bro.Drummerboy understand that I would not partake of Easter at your house because I feel a personal conviction not to.Somehow you have taken it to mean differently.
Hi Committed,
to be honest I do not eat much meat at all.I am on a diet and pork is bad for you very high in fat and salt..I do also not eat much red meat.Only alot of chicken and fish.The reason I would not celebrate Easter at Daves is that I don't do Easter period regardless of where its at.lv sis.c

[drummerboy_dave]

We will not be having ham for dinner, anyhow. Instead, we will be "BBQ"ing. Baby back ribs and chicken. MMMMM!!!! Wish you could join us.

I know all of us here remember our risen Saviour everyday, but I sure hope we all, can recieve a little something extra from Christ, tomorrow.

In Jesus' name.

[ddc101]

Hi Drummerboy,
Sorry no Easter for me.If it were regular sunday dinner it would be fine.lv sis.c

[In His Service]

We will Drummer,
We will not partake of the World customs and ideas that are based on lies. We will serve him in truth and honesty.
Bro. Timothy

[bishop1]

I gotta go now - -
it's almost sunrise -
I'm agonna ketch dat pink rabitt
that's been a laying dem plastic aigs
in my neighbor's trees !

[tufluv]

Bro.Bishop1:
You mean the one that goes on and on and on and on and on...........................and on and on and on..........Heheh! :D

[John Atkinson]

Well, as for me and my house, we dropped a c-note at Modesto's. Lynn and I had the honey-pepper pork loin, Alia had the virginia ham, all with mashed potatoes and mixed vegetables (Cauliflower/broccoli/carrots)

I had raspberry cheese cake for dessert, Lynn had tiramisu, Alia had some kindof peanut butter-chocolate thing. We probably whould have done all that if it was just another Sunday.

As for Easter, to me it is just another day. I agree most of it comes from paganism. But then the fact that we have church on Sunday is rooted in Catholic Tradition and therefore no more or less pagan in origin that samhain.

So, I think if people want to ignore easter fine. If they want to celebrate Christ, fine. Putting colored eggs in a basket where no intent to worship a deity is involved is no more a sin than carrying the all seeing eye of Osirus in your wallet(back of the dollar bill).

As for here, I only have concern when a brother or a sister tells another brother or a sister that they are a pagan and a sinner because of what they do on some silly day. That is when I step in a shut threads down.

Though in this case the horse got out of the barn while I wasn't looking...bummer

[tufluv]

Yummy, I'm getting hungry! You are well-blessed indeed brother John! :D BTW: feel free to drop one of them 'c-notes' in the mailbox to my home address! :laugh: :laugh: lol
My only contention in this is that I can see where some things are a lot easier changed or dealt with than others., after all, I can do nothing about those dollar bills, EXCEPT, maybe using only plastic!! Hmmm...but all that interest, no thanx! Although I will consider now the debit cards. See, I did not even KNOW anything about that. There is much I don't yet know., and for that this GNC is really helpful! :bow:
For me, whatever is in my power to do or change, I will., assuming I have knowledge of certain things, like pagan origins, of course, I don't feel right, it does not sit well with me, if I CAN change something, and don't. AND, thats just ME., well maybe NOT just me, I'm one of perhaps several.BUT-
Its certainly nothing to bicker over, I agree, and that could apply to so many other issues as well. I just state what I believe, and why, and thats all (pretty much!:D) again, I'm not by any means ms.perfect, either., we all need a lot more growth in the Spirit, I am willing to learn and GROW, putting knowledge into action!
GOD BLESS! :angel: HAPPY PASSOVER!

[Truthseeker]

Bro John

The difference between the all seeing eye
and coloring egs is you have no control. over what's on money. Even Jesus paid taxes with money that had ceaser pic on it, but he didn't did have allegiance to him or to the roman govenment. Coloring eggs is an act you have control to not do.

[John Atkinson]

Once again, either way, it isn't an issue with me. I didn't color eggs. I think it falls into the personal conviction realm.

But I do see the point. If these things are unclean to someone, then they would be best served by avoiding them. I don't think the the stand you folks are taking against holidays is wrong. I think for you probably it is right and the one you should take.

The scripture is clear on this one thing:

---------------------------To Everyone------------------------------

Rom 14:20-23
(20) For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense.
(21) It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

---To the Easter Eggers and Christmas Tree People------

(22) Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Enjoy your easter eggs and christmas tree without trying to convince anyone they must do likewise.

---To Easter and Christmas Are Pagan BAD BAD BAD People---

(23) And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Enjoy the day as you do any other. For you to partake likely would be sin....for you. But your brethren who through faith and without condemnation enjoy the day as an occasion, they have not sinned.

There is actually a greater admonition against them who allow, trying to convince those who do not. At Christmas time I may take a stand against this type pf thread for that reason, as I see clear scriptural instruction here.

Perhaps I had it backwards in my own closing of the thread.

I do not think it is right for either side to try and convince the other the rightness or wrongness of a particular view point on the holidays. But, this is a discussion board, so we can discuss things.

Now I would just like to leave the easter conversation, confident that we will divide into camps again ar Christmas time, 7.something months from now.

:sb:

[BroDane]

You see, I didnt join either camp on this issue or the Christmas one but, I agree with some of what both sides presented and I am still gonna stay in my little ole camp by myself.

And now and then both sides will come in and say they agree with me.... ( and both sides have!)

Cause I am in the No-I-Dont-Take-Sides and The-Only-Stance-I-Have-On-Issues-Is-Jesus Camp and it gets a little lonely in my camp except for the occasional person who pops in once in a while.

And thats ok by me....Cause Jesus is here....:yeah:

[truemessianic]

Originally posted by drummerboy_dave
We will not be having ham for dinner, anyhow. Instead, we will be "BBQ"ing. Baby back ribs and chicken. MMMMM!!!! Wish you could join us.

I know all of us here remember our risen Saviour everyday, but I sure hope we all, can recieve a little something extra from Christ, tomorrow.

In Jesus' name.

Well, I didn't have ham either. We had tacos and salad.
Anyway, Easter is just any other day. The world may think something of it. Everyday is Resurrection Day to me, cause I wake up to mercies from Jesus Christ.

[Xerf]

I have a little "ify" question:

What if there was an old pagan practice of say, running a bamboo shoot through a wall and one pagan would stand under the tube and another pagan would pour water into the other end causing the pagan under the tube to become very wet as an act of worship to a water god.

NOW what IF this little ritual was never recorded in anyone's history book and passed away as an unknown ritual. Would a person taking a shower be practicing a pagan ritual and never know it? Would God be very unpleased with those that did so?

What IF................


:)

[tufluv]

OH SILLY XERF!!

I indicated something to that effect, in that things that I know not, I can do nothing about. Once knowing, however, I am then left with a decision to make about it.
Like say with salvation: is a person somewhere in the deep "boonies" where no one has been able to take the message of the gospel, will the not knowing then absolve that person(s) from knowing to obey GOD's written WORD?
ACTS2:38?Hmmm....I am NOT GOD, therefore, cannot conclusively answer that, but only for myself, that I alone must make certain decisions based on knowledge AND HOLY GHOST inspiration or conviction.

As for that shower thingy - how about just baths?
(although I do LOVE showers) or how about standing under a waterfall (a 'dream' of mine)? Specify my dear XERF!!
OR, is it simply a matter of "interpretation"? Hmmm....

Don't be placing no stumblingblocks in front of my beloved SHOWERS! Besides, there can be nothing wrong with LIVING WATERS!! :D Some famous person somewhere once said "cleanliness is next to godliness"...maybe it was penned by those hypothetical persons you spoke of! :laugh:

[tufluv]

But, Bro.Dane, with all due respect, you are taking A side,
YOURS! and you do it well, I must say! A safety zone.

Many christians [not YOU my nice brother :D] do something similar, its safer to not do certain things. Some don't care to go to church-stay home, (after all they can pray or worship at home) don't wanna fellowship with other christians ("they're all hypocrites"!) and definitely don't wanna pay tithes ("its all for the pastor") and that maybe being the #1 reason they won't go in reality!! lol
They don't want to witness to others for various reasons, #1 being fear of rejection or themselves being called a 'hypocrite', etc.etc.

Safety is overrated! BOLDNESS is what the LORD expects from us! THAT is one of the reasons WHY we were to be given the gift of the HOLYGHOST = empowerment. Power to boldly go where no man has gone!! Heheh-sorry, could'nt resist..:shrug:
BOLDNESS to stand or live by one's convictions as discerned with the HOLYGHOST filter. And before I get accused of 'preaching it' I better close for now.
I do admire, you though Bro.Dane, for your restraint and good old fashioned common-sense! AND, love for all!

P.S. everyone's talked about what they did or did not eat today, so-o, I had a chicken (I boiled yesterday) with mayo sandwich on toasted diet wheat bread-woopee!! (after fasting)., but I am happy to have had that or anything, really.

[BroDane]

Awwwww, Yer too nice to me..

I aint gonna tell ya what I did or didnt eat today..hehehe..ahhh..the restraint is just sometimes too much for me....

Btw..I am Standing firm in the Holy Ghost by not posting about things that I see many are weak-minded about and would, as
seen many times here, not Grow and benefit from what I say.

What is interesting is, the scriptures Bro John posted are some of the same ones I stand in, for the benefit of my brothers:

http://www.goodnewscafe.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=326

I didnt read Bro Johns Post till just five minutes ago..
Hows that for Holy Ghost Inspired! :idea:

What you call a safety zone, I call Liberty:

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

I can do alot of things, I restrain myself for my brethrens benefit, I have been called brainwashed,silly,controlled,legalistic and many other things because of my If-My-Brethren-Gets-Offended-Then-I-Wont-Do-It Stand. Thats ok...Satan says the same things about Jesus, So I always take it as a compliment when a person accuses me of such things...

Also: Jesus was slapped, spit on, whipped and Yet...He had the liberty to DESTROY all the sinners..But, came as a lamb led to the slaughter, Hows that for Ultimate restraint!

Jesus had Ultimate Liberty..yet, for our sakes, restrained himself...for our benefit..HE is my example... I rest my case..

Ill shut up..for now!! :yeah:

[Xerf]

I want to ask another "ify" question:

What IF I had never asked the first "ify" question would I have been missed?

hahaha!

:rolleyes:

[BroDane]

All the What If's are located in Isle 5, Row 7 Right next to the ABTTTGYMOG category :yeah:

(Anything But The Truth To Get Your Mind Off God)

Also: Alfred E. Neumans articles are stuffed there too! :goof:

[tufluv]

Not another one of those "ify"answers that can be answered with the same reply as before: "must you ask? have you not read all the past posts posted while you were absent? everyone was searching for you?" XERF, my comedically gifted bro., you will
ALWAYS BE MISSED! even if gone for two micro-seconds!
Does that help? lol
I never have to ask that question, as I ALREADY know the answer: NO!! (I learned that several yesterday's ago).
AND, so-o-o, you did not answer all MY questions about specifics!
Too confusing :confused:? Thats okay.

[ddc101]

I get this newsletter and wanted to share it here.Maybe some of you get this.The Apostolic Voice
Easter

Two of the most popular letters thus far have been on Holidays; that is, the one on Christmas and Valentines. Therefore, it just might be that these topics are of interest to many. In these two newsletters it was stressed why believers should avoid being caught up in the festivities of the season and "be ye separated, saith the Lord." This letter is no different and the facts below will hopefully aid in doing this. It is from the book "Heathen Holidays." I don't know the author or their Chrisitan affiliation, but what is presented here is research and you don't have to be inspired to find research.

"The name of this festival, itself, shows its heathen origin. "Easter" is derived from Eastre, or Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon Goddess of spring and dawn. There also is some historical connection existing between the words "Easter" and "East," where the sun rises. The festival of Eostre was celebrated on the day of the Vernal Equinox (spring). Traditions associated with the festival of the Teutonic fertility Goddess survive in the Easter rabbit and colored eggs.

Spring is the season of new life and revival, when, from ancient times, the pagan peoples of Europe and Asia held their spring festivals, re-enacting ancient regeneration myths and performing magical and religious ceremonies to make the crops grow and prosper.

From "The American Book of Days," by George William Douglas we read: "As the festival of Eostre was a celebration of the renewal of life in the spring it was easy to make it a celebration of the resurrection from the dead of Jesus. There is no doubt that the Church (of Rome) in its early days adopted the old pagan customs and gave a "Christian" meaning to them.

From "Easter: its Story and Meaning," by Alan W. Watts is found: "The story of Easter is not simply a Christian story. Not only is the very name "Easter" the name of an ancient and non-Christian deity; the season itself has also, from time immemorial, been the occasion of rites and observances having to do with the mystery of death and resurrection among peoples differing widely in race and religion."

From "Easter and its customs," by Christina Hole is found: "Vernal Mysteries (spring heathen rites) like those of Tammuz, and Osiris and Adonis flourished in the Mediterranean world and farther north and east there were others. Some of their rites and symbols were carried forward into Easter customs. Many of them have survived into our own day, unchanged yet subtly altered in their new surroundings to bear a "Christian" significance."

TAMMUZ AND THE VERNAL MYSTERIES

The rites connected with the death and resurrection of the gods Tammuz, Osiris, and Adonis are the Forerunners of the "Christian" Easter; they are the first East services.

Let us look in the Word of God in Ezekiel 8:13-16

(13) He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt
see greater abominations that they do. (14) Then he brought
me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was
toward the north; and behold, there sat women WEEPING FOR
TAMMUZ (15) Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O
son of man? Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater
abominations than these (16) And he brought me into the inner
court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple
of the Lord, between the porch and the alter, were about five
and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord,
and their faces toward the EAST; and they WORSHIPPED
THE SUN toward the EAST.

Here the people of God, Israel, had back-slid into idolatry. Tammuz was a Babylonian god. Like Christ Mass and New Year's, Easter, too, began in Babylon.

Let us look into the Mythologies of the death and resurrection gods, such as Tammuz from "Easter: its Story and Meaning."

"Wife and beloved of Tammuz was the goddess Inanna, or Ishtar,
in whose person is represented she whom we now call Mother
Nature of Mother Earth -- she who, when refreshed with the
spring rains, with the water from heaven, brings forth the
fruits of life. We are told that when Tammuz died, Inanna was
so stricken with grief that she followed him to the underworld,
to the realm of Eresh-Kigal, Queen of the Dead, a "land from
which there is no returning, a house of darkness, where dust
lies on door and bolt." In her absence the earth was deprived
of its fertility; crops would not grow; animals would not mate;
life was in danger of coming to an end.

"O my child!" at his vanishing aways she lifts up a lament; "My Damu!" at his vanishing away she lifts up a lament; "My enchanter and priest!" at his vanishing away she lifts up a lament, At the shining cedar, rooted in a spacious place, In Eanna, above and below, she lifts up a lament.

This ancient text is called "The Lament of the Flutes for Tammuz." He had gone away to the underworld, and this was why there was winter. "The Lament of the Flutes for Tammuz" describes the grief which moved Ea, god of water and wisdom, to send a heavenly messenger to the underworld to rescue the goddess whose absence was removing life from the earth. Assenting reluctantly to his supreme will, Eresh-Kigal allowed the messenger to sprinkle Inanna and Tammuz with water of life--a potion which gave them power to return into the light of the sun for six months of the year. But for the other six months, Tammuz must again return to the land of death, whither Inanna would again pursue him, and once more with her lamentations move Ea to give the water of life so that year after year the miracle of resurrection and spring would recur."

In the course of centuries, the story and the yearly rites connected with the death and resurrection of Tammuz moved westward to Phoenicia and Syria on the extreme east of the Mediterranean. In Greece the two names are Adonis and Aphrodite.

The myth underwent some changes in passing from Sumeria to Syria.

A Greek myth tells of Demeter, like Inanna, the goddess of the earth, and her daughter, Kore (Persephone). The girl was abducted by Pluto, the ruler of the underworld, and her absence brought about a famine on earth through the failure of the crops. Pluto was therefore moved to restored Kore to her mother, but because she had eaten a pomegranate in the underworld she was bound to return to Pluto for as many months of each year as there were seeds of the pomegranate caught in her mouth. In joy at her annual return, the earth (Demeter) brings forth her fruits and flowers.

Adonis (Greek god) was the child of Myrrha, the myrtle tree. (It seems that almost all the gods of death and resurrection are associated with a tree.) When the infant Adonis was born, Aphrodite was so charmed with his beauty that she adopted him and concealed him in a chest, which she gave for safekeeping to Persephone--the counterpart of Eresh-Kigal, the Babylonian Queen of the Dead. In the underworld Persephone opened the chest, and was herself so enchanged with the babe that she decided to keep him. This led to a dispute between Aphrodite and Persephone, between love and death, in which Zeus (taking the place of the Babylonian Ea) had to intervene. Zeus decreed that for four months of the year Adonis should belong to Aphrodite, for four to Persephone, and for the remaining four he should do as he wished--Adonis chose to spend them with Aphrodite.

When he had grown to young manhood, Adonis roused the envy of Artemis, the forest goddess of the hunt, or according to another account, or Ares, the god of war. Thus, while he was out hunting, Artemis slew Adonis with an arrow--the arrows of Artemis being the cause to which sudden death was generally ascribed--or in the version, he was gored by Ares in the form of a wild boar. He died, and where the earth had received his blood, Aphrodite sprinkled the ground with nectar, so that the blood turned into anemones and other flowers of the field. But the grief of Aphrodite was so piteous that the gods of the underworld allowed Adonis to return to her every spring for six months of the year.

In Asia Minor the Phrygians believed that their omnipotent deity went to sleep at the time of the winter solstice and they performed ceremonies with music and dancing at the spring equinox to awaken him.

Of the same essential pattern is the great Egyptian myth of Osiris. The common elements in all these stories are so apparent that one may think of them as a single drama performed again and again by different actors.

It would be tedious to describe in detail all that has been handed down to us about the various rites of Tammuz, Adonis, Kire, and many others. Their rites had many basic elements in common. Their universal theme--the drama of death and resurrection--makes them the forerunners of the "Christian" Easter, and thus the first easter services. Many of the customs and ceremonies of the "Christian" Easter resemble these former rites, for instance, the present day "Sun Rise Services." Easter descended from pagan sun worship. Catholic Doctrine simply paralleled the pagan death and resurrection myths of the gods with the story of Christ's crucifixion and Ascension. Christ now rises from the dead with the ascending sun at the time of the Vernal Equinox when plant life and all forms of vegetation appear again on the Earth, and is celebrated with the same customs as that of the Heathen rites namely, rabbits, chickens, and colored eggs!

[ddc101]

The Apostolic Voice
Pt 2
COLORED EGGS

The Easter egg takes us back to some of the oldest known civilizations on earth where the symbol of an egg played an important part in mythical accounts of the creation of the world. According to this tale heaven and earth were formed from the two halves of a mysterious World-Egg. The Easter egg is associated with this World-Egg, the original germ from which all life proceeds, and whose shell is the firmament. So there is a heathen connection between the egg and the ideas or feelings of birth, new life, and creation.

Easter eggs do have a very long ancestry. In their modern chocolate or cardboard form they date only from the later years of the last century, but giving real eggs, colored or gilded at Easter and also at the pre-Christian spring celebrations are infinitely older.

Long before the Christian era, eggs were regarded as symbols of continuing life and resurrection. The ancient Persians and Greeks exchanged them at their spring festivals when all things in nature revived after the winter. To the early pagans converted to "Christianity" under Emperor Constantine's rule, eggs seemed the obvious symbols of the Lord's resurrection and were therefore considered "holy" and appropriate gifts at Easter time. Pope Paul V appointed a prayer in which the eggs were "blessed." The eggs could then be eaten in thankfulness to God on account of the resurrection of the Lord. The custom of coloring eggs at Easter continued from paganism with only a change of dedication. These eggs are often red. Scarlet eggs were given in the spring by pagan peoples centuries before the birth of Christ. It is probably the favorite color because, like the egg itself, it is an emblem of life.

THE EASTER RABBIT

The hare is the true Easter beast, not the rabbit. He was sacred to the Spring-Goddess, Eostre. Hares were sacrificed to her. The hare was an emblem of fertility, renewal, and return of spring to the heathen. The egg, in modern American folklore, is the production of the rabbit or the hare. The story is that this hare was once a bird whom Eostre changed into a four-footed creature.

HOT-CROSS BUNS

Eating hot-cross buns is one of the Good Friday customs that has taken root in America. They are pagan in origin, for the Anglo-Saxon savages consumed cakes as part of the jollity that attended the welcoming of spring. Early missionaries from Rome despaired of breaking them of the habit, and got around the difficulty by blessing the cakes, drawing a cross upon them. But the cross was a pagan symbol long before the crucifixion. Bread and cakes were sometimes marked with it in pre-Christian times. Two small loaves each with a cross on them were discovered under the ruins of Herculaneum, a city overwhelmed by volcanic ash in A.D. 79. It is probable that the crosses here had a pagan meaning like those which appeared on cakes associated with the worship of Diana.

There are other pagan customs associated with Easter, but we have discussed the most common ones." - END

SATAN’S PLOT

Those who read the Christmas and Valentines message would readily see why pagan festivities were cloaked under popular Christianity. Reason being, the pagan festivities of these popular holidays are now being known because satan has already woven these occult festivities within 'Christian' traditions, unknowingly. So allowing it to be unmasked, internationally, would only drop the Christian values from it and the festivities would continue, as it was when it was openly occult. In this world, which is becoming a melting pot for culture and religion, no one will even notice or bother to give consideration whether or not it's Christian or not, after so many generations of it. No one is going to give up their traditions (bunnies, colored eggs, etc), even though they will find out that Christ nor God had nothing to do with it; or apart of it.

Satan would have then used a good name to preserve his occult practice until the dawn of the New Age and religious tolerance delusion. Reason being, he cannot beat Christianity, so he has to tolerate it and pervert it from within to try and achieve his goal. Here is a quote about one of the top members of satan's army, which confirms this strategy:

"Weishaupt [founder of the luciferian society- illuminati], a professor of ingolstadt, heartily hated the Jesuits, and formed his league of illuminati with the express intention 'of using for good ends the means which the Jesuit order had employed for bad'" (The power and Secret of the Jesuit -1930-Fillip Miller).

Because of these three letters on Christmas, Valentines and now Easter we really need to know what is a real Holiday. This tract might help, CLICK HERE.


Grace be unto you,
Oneil.


I thought Oneil made some good points.lv sis.c

[drummerboy_dave]

My favorite Oneil point:

"Grace be unto you".




Thank God Easter has past.

How long 'til December?!

[ddc101]

Wow Dave only 12 months away.Just think we have all year to think about it.lv sis.c

[Ysan]

Perhaps we should create a study group in church to acquire a PHD in a 4 year course in "Christian" and Pagan history. After reading 2000+ years of text then maybe we can illuminate ALL pagan-founded activities.

Anyone who finishes reading over 2000 years of text first wins a cheap trophy. ;)

[ddc101]

Wow a trophy!And I thought all I was getting out of it was a hard time.....lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

Boy! I can't wait til sunmass, how about you ddc.

[In His Service]

Hey DDC,
What we are getting is a great prize!!!

The Truth!!!!!
BuY the Truth and sell it not, PTL!!!!!
Bro. Timothy

[justavessel4him]

Bro. Bob,
Do you mean Mithrasmas??? Or rather Mithras Mass?

[Truthseeker]

Excuse my ignorance but what is Mithras mass?

[In His Service]

Truth seeker,
Look up mithras in a encyclopedia. It will be eye opening. Do a net search, there is so much.

Bro. Timothy

[ddc101]

Bro.Tim,
I looked that term up.Am I imagining it or did that idol look like a man in drag? sis.c

[John Atkinson]

Jer 10:1-3
(1) Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
(2) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
(3) For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

1Pe 5:6-9
(6) Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
(7) Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
(8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
(9) Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Jam 4:7-8
(7) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
(8) Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


This may seem foolish to some, but I don't spend an inordinate amount of time studying pagan religions. Considering also that most of what is known about these religions, especially the Mitraic mystery cult, comes from second hand sources. As there was no written record of practices and etc.

My thought is that if I spend my energies drawing nigh unto God, then there will be no aspects of idolatry in my life.

[ddc101]

Hi Brother John,
I never asked you but what denomination did you belong to before you were saved?
I was Roman Catholic.I had to study which practices were pagan and which were not because I possibly was doing them unknowingly.It would be like never growing.Like coming to the Lord and not putting into practice the things of God because you have a different idea what those things are.Once I learned what was christian and what was pagan I was able to turn away from the things that are idolatry.Believe me when I say that I did not know.I was kneeling down speaking in tongues with a rosary in the other hand...I kid you not.lv sis.c

[John Atkinson]

Heh Heh, I said it a couple of times myself :-) as I was a catholic as well.

My post was more from an instructional point, because some folks get so obseesed with this topic that they will study idolatry to the point that that is all they study.

[ddc101]

I can see where people can become obcessed with anything.But then there is the other flip side.Those who never ask themselves why they do things and just do them rote regardless if they are pleasing to the Lord or not.I cannot see where me praying to Mary and praying to Jesus at the same time could have been.But then somebody had to come along and teach me that catholism is wrong and its practices abominable.I was not the norm just catholic in name person. I really practiced the Way of the Cross and went for the Blessing of the Sacrament.I went to the all night open church prayer.I went to six am mass.I played guitar for three catholic prayer groups.I had a novena card for whatever need you had in my purse and candles light all the time.I had one rosary of which the beads were as big as oranges.Once when the priest came over to visit he said those ought to be worth ten each.Had I not learned what was christian and what was idolatrous I would not be able to teach others coming out as I do.
God knows what he is doing.lv sis.c

[In His Service]

Sis. C,
Well said, I appreciate you sharing that with us. Many would not have a problem with a person spending a great deal of time studying history of America, or our political system. When those speak of studying of pagan ways that have been part of society almost since the beginning, it seem that they are looked down upon. History will back the Word of God we find out more every day. More discoveries over the years that proves even to skeptics that the things written in the Bible are true.

Thanks again
Bro. Timothy

[tufluv]

And yet those skeptics will remain 'skeptics', since PRIDE will not allow them to EVER admit maybe they might be wrong, the very thought is alien to them...
Sad, but its true, "pride goeth before destruction"., skeptics are on a one-way road to that destruction. I wager that some prefer that to admitting that someone else was RIGHT!
Skeptics are basically "unbelievers", tell them its white, they say black, good, they say bad, etc., arguing to hear themselves talk, to get attention, while there is no real interest in TRUTH for these.

DDC: GOOD points! Don't see how anyone can argue with that! Only a 'skeptic' would..perhaps someone bent on ridiculing those whom do care to learn what 'not' to do as well as what TO DO!
P.S., Sis Cooper, Its hard for me to even imagine you like that!! lol
:D A miracle, indeed!

[ddc101]

Tufluv,
I have been to charismatic meetings inside a catholic church where it was acceptable for Mary to speak through someone as well as Jesus.People claimed all kind of miricles would occur and even would say they smelled perfume like the scent of roses.
Now that I have learned about spirits I know that they manifest themselves sometime with a certain odor.And the funny thing was it never seemed odd to any of us.Except for the time when one of the priests was jealous of my relationship with my roommate whom he had a thing for.He supposidly prophesied to me get this...out loud and in front of the whole group about all the sins I had told him in the confessional(under the guise of it being Mary) and how I needed to get back up.Well that did it for me.I began searching for truth.No way does God tell the whole world things you have shared in private...but man does...sis.c

[dllong]

The scent of flowers/rose's is very common.

The sense of smell is closely related to that area in the brain that is used for memory. Have you ever caught the aroma of something and it took you back to a time in your life that you recall vividly? Believe it or not, scientists have discovered that the opposite is also true. If you are experiencing something or remembering something that happened in your past it can actually produce the scent in that portion of your brain.

Many people recall many times in their childhood when at a funeral or wedding when praying or observing the Virgin Mary in a picture or seeing a person in a casket, the room is filled with flowers, especially roses. Those mental images and the smell of roses are burned into that area of memory in the brain. These memories have deep spiritual meanings an stay with the individual for life.

Dave