Why Do Apostolics Have Hi-Tech Phobia? [Old Café]

[John Atkinson]

Archive At: http://www.apostolic.net/cafe/messages/23/4075.html?1047583874

[ddc101]

I heard on the radio today a speaker who said that too much technology turns churches from worshipping churches to spectating churches.What are your thoughts? sis.c

[BrotherBallard]

Sis. Cooper,

All these threads that you are resurrecting, the links on them are not working, or at least I can not view them.

In His Name!!!

[ddc101]

Sis. Cooper,

All these threads that you are resurrecting, the links on them are not working, or at least I can not view them.

In His Name!!!

Okay I don't know why they aren't working but I want to know what you think about the comment I gave on the topic? lv sis.c

[In His Service]

Bro. Bullard,
I asked why the old threads where being brought up in a new thread, and it got erased, BOOO HOOOO !!!

[ddc101]

Bro. Bullard,
I asked why the old threads where being brought up in a new thread, and it got erased, BOOO HOOOO !!!

It does not take a college professor to read the topic of this thread.I could not link to them either.I suppose it was part of what got lost awhile back in the crash.But it is a good topic nevertheless.I think we need to revise topic.These were some that had a great deal of posts in the originals and were brought over to the new system.lv sis.c

[LilOrphanAnnie]

I think it's a good point, that when the technology comes in, the people become more of spectators. When I was in grade school, I think 7th grade or so, I had a really great science teacher. He was full of life, loved what he did, was enthusiastic, he was really personal with us kids, everybody loved him. Then he got a computer, and could do all kinds of things with organizing the grades & whatnot on the computer. He started to get all involved in the computer, and things weren't as fun- fortuneately for us one day soon after he woke up and asked us if we thought it was better with the computer. We said no, he wasn't really with us any more, and so he apologized & stopped with the computer so much.

When I was reading about natural childbirth, before I had my babies, one thing a book noted was that in a hospital setting people get all involved in the technology, (especially guy people!!!) and almost ignore the main event, which is the mother and the birth. I think they have a valid point.

I lived in a place once that had fairly frequent electricity lapses, no electricity at all for a day or two at a time. (American Samoa. Long story.) It was interesting. I kind of liked it. It was very quiet, very restful, very natural. I wish today I could just turn the fuses all off sometimes, and spend a few days without electricity. Most of you may not understand this but electricity makes you tired, tense, to some degree.

Anyway in a church setting I think it is true, when there's a big screen with the Bible verses above it, the people's attention is on that screen. One time the microphones didn't work (in my previous church) and the speaker happened to be a missionary, used to preaching without electricity at all. I think he preferred it. He preached for a few minutes without the microphone, and to tell you the truth I liked it better. His voice was more real, the connection was much more real. (well, I don't know how to explain that one!) I wish we didn't use electricity & microphones & gadgets so much, whatsoever. (we overuse the microphones, I know- often the sound level is literally at a level to cause hearing loss. It was measured at my last church several times, they worked to fix it though.) But, gadgets are a good thing too, and we use them to reach many, many more people than we could one-on-one. It's a different age.

[NanaRenan]

Not sure what the original post said, but I remember a few years back...when the church had gotten too large for songbooks to be feasible, yet many didn't know the words to the songs, they brought in a large screen television to display the powerpoint slides with the lyrics...as well as a continuous loop of slides announcing events before and after service.

We had several families leave over having a "television" in the sanctuary.

Eventually, we replaced it (actually moved it to the fellowship hall where the daughter works meet and they use it) with a projector and screen.

I never could understand how that television was supposed to be our downfall.

[Renee29]

I heard on the radio today a speaker who said that too much technology turns churches from worshipping churches to spectating churches.What are your thoughts? sis.c


Sometimes I think our church gets too "caught up" in making sure our Power Point etc and everything is perfect. It doesn't make us spectators, but often times it's a distraction.

[John Atkinson]

It wasn't lost, I deliberately deleted the Old Cafe Archive from the web about 4 months ago.

[whatevah]

A lot of people who were raised in church were/are taught that TV is of the devil, and that the internet is trash, too.

Yes, there is a ton of trash on the TV/cable/sat. and yes, a lot more on the internet. But, there is also a lot of trash off-line and off-air, as well. You can't drive anywhere without seeing a billboard catering to one of the fleshly desires, to say nothing of the various "corner stores" with the windows covered in ads for some brand-name alchohal or another.

I've been hearing lately suggestions that we as christians fight back using technology for good. The UPCI webcasted their General Conference for anybody to watch, there are many sources to listen to christian music and apostolic preaching for free online.

Getting a little lower-tech, I see no problem in using technology in church. A lot of churches are moving away from transparencies to LCD projectors hooked into computers to even large-screen TVs. Even when I was in grade school at church, we had a "monitor" and vcr for watching McGee & Me and other videos.

As far as I know, the UPCI licensed ministers aren't allowed to have televisions. Some extend this to monitors and VCRs/DVD, as well. Everybody has had a weak point in life, and for some people, TV was that point. I can respect that. Shunning monitors is probably a good idea, there's a lot of garbage in BlockBuster. But, then, there's a whole lot of trash on the internet, and you don't even have to pay or go to a store. And, hey, what about all the trashy radio stations, lets yank the radios out of our cars. Where do you draw the line? Like I said above, you have to control it, and not let temptations get the best of you. Christian websites like this are awesome, come here rather than turning on the "tube".

Renee - yes, people can get fixated on things. Especially with new shiny toys. Just look at us musicians when we get new equipment. We just have to make sure that we concentrate on what's important. Hey, if we have to sing from memory for a service because the computer isn't working, let it be, God probably has a special plan for that service.

One of the nicest uses of computers/projectors in church I've seen is putting the scripture onto the wall. Sure saves time when the preacher is switching from Matthew to Romans to Psalms to Jude to Acts ;)

[jwharvell]

I heard on the radio today a speaker who said that too much technology turns churches from worshipping churches to spectating churches.What are your thoughts? sis.c

I know of a church that does power point presentations during the service. Now if it was simply for music puposes or so forth I could understand, but I am talking pictures and so forth on the wall behind the platform during service. Kind of distracting if you ask me. I am all for technology but I think some have taken it to extremes. Even funerals now are going on with these power point presentations. Memorial websites can be set up through the local newspaper here and people go and post publicly what basicly amounts to email correspondence to a dead people. Kind of morbid and depressing in my oppinion. I think everything can be taken to far. Computers serve a purpose and can be purductive then at times they can just be in the way and annoying. You have to find a balance somewhere.

Just Pondering
JW

[NanaRenan]

A lot of people who were raised in church were/are taught that TV is of the devil, and that the internet is trash, too.
.......
Shunning monitors is probably a good idea, there's a lot of garbage in BlockBuster. But, then, there's a whole lot of trash on the internet, and you don't even have to pay or go to a store. And, hey, what about all the trashy radio stations, lets yank the radios out of our cars. Where do you draw the line? Like I said above, you have to control it, and not let temptations get the best of you.
I sat under an elder pastor for many years who'd vehemently preached against televisions (and before that radios) for 50+ years. At the end of his ministry he made the remark to my husband and I, and a few others standing around, that he wished instead of a total ban that they had taught the saints how to choose wisely and stay in control. He knew logically that there was no inherent evil in a documentary on tornadoes or a collection of home videos of pets -- those educate and entertain. But by making it a black or white issue, there was no room for such.

I have lived both with TV and without. Frankly, I just as soon not have one at all. I see it a little like snake charming. You have to always be on guard, it can turn on you in a heart beat and you can be successful for years and years and one slip be deadly.

[OneGodDivine]

Archive At: http://www.apostolic.net/cafe/messages/23/4075.html?1047583874
Dead link John

[ReneeP]

I am all for having *new toys* :tup:
I believe we as God's people can have the very best.
I like a good sound system, I love powerpoint...(wish we had it!)
HOWEVER..what I dont like is when these hi tech things fail..it seems like everyone loses their salvation! :grumble:
We have a praiseteam and they were singing one night and for some reason the sound was not coming through their monitors and oh my goodness they were off key and came off the platform ranting and raging about the sound and I looked at them and said..first of all...everyone of you ought to be able to sing your part even if it wasnt coming through the system and second of all..you would have never made it several years ago when sound systems didnt even exist!
Like I said..dont get me wrong..I LOVE all our techs and I know as a choir/music director it makes my job much easier when I can hear what is going on but I am not about to blow my stack over little things ;)
Just my opinion :)

God bless
Renee

[In His Service]

We use a power point to project the words to the songs or chorus that are sung. This is so that new believers and or visitors, can feel comfortable and join in the singing.

For most of the saints, we know the words to most praise songs and or chorus upside down, backward, forwards, any way you look at it, LOL LOL!!! If a newer song is added it helps all to learn it more quickly, the see and learn method is much quicker than to just listen and learn.

During our dedication service, before the service began, we had a power point presentation playing on the front wall of where the church started to the new building. Other than that, it is not used for any other purpose during service.

Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

ps
We also have a power point going on announcements before each service. Things like special upcoming services, to let visitors know we provide a nursery, birthdays and such, etc....

[backseatradio]

I have definately noticed that alot of apostolics are afraid of modern technology. I grew up with the idea that you was going to hell if you had a tv in your home and was even terrified when i first got my computer and got online.

Now days i see it as its not the tv or computer/internet thats gonna hurt ya. its what you choose to do with it. I personally dont care to have a tv simply because i have a hard enough time keeping myself out of trouble with just the internet. choose the internet over the tv because its more interactive. I do think its good to use things like tv and internet to spread the gospel. Wish more apostolics would get ahold of the technology and put gospel programs on tv and internet.

[ddc101]

I love technology in its place.I am married to inspector gadget.lv sis.c

[OneGodDivine]

I love technology in its place.I am married to inspector gadget.lv sis.c
Your funny ddc101, inspector gadget lol. :laugh:

[Norman]

"I think it's a good point, that when the technology comes in, the people become more of spectators"

It's that way when people are not properly motivated to maintain their devotion to God, and to worship. However, anything that is a hindrance needs to be re-evaluated. No, I don't think technology is wrong in itself, but we have to be careful how we use it.

[TodayAGiftFrGod]

Someone mentioned a TV in the sanctuary... Personally, I wouldn't think it would be right to have a TV in the sanctuary even if it were for the praise and worship songs if one attends a denomination that teaches and preaches "NO" TVs... Seems a big screen and projector would be more appropriate... To have a TV in the sanctuary and try to teach no TV seems rather conflicting and VERY confusing....

Personally, I don't feel TV is wrong in and of itself... It's what one chooses to watch on it... As I've said before, the INTERNET has caused my family many more problems than the television EVER did..... Radio and reading material can also be worse than TV .... It's an example of where people need to be taught RIGHT from WRONG rather than given a list of dos and donts... If people would be taught righteous living and right from wrong, to pray, and follow the spirit, the Church would not be deemed so legalistic with and require their list of rules and regulations, some of which are definitely scriptural and some are debateable...

As for using the new technology in the services, I think it is absolutely wonderful.... The hymnals are very seldom used in the churches I've attended in many years and newcomers seem so lost when they come to church and don't know the songs... especially if they want to sing along... For those who have been in church for a length of time, we forget how frustrating it can be until you go somewhere else where they sing a different style, and suddenly you find yourself in a situation where YOU don't know the words and far be it from understanding those singing sometimes... I attended one church for almost 4 years and never did learn the words to the choruses they sang... Putting words to songs on the projector screen is wonderful to people who don't know the words to the song... I also enjoy reading the announcements up there before service... I've also seen it used to promote the church in general and give guidance to new faces who may not otherwise know how to get around to various veins and outreaches of the church... They can be very informative and helpful...

[Norman]

I heard on the radio today a speaker who said that too much technology turns churches from worshipping churches to spectating churches.What are your thoughts?

I think that is a definite possibility, but it doesn't have to be that way. There could be a point even during a power point presentation where they stop and sing or something.
I saw a power point presentation once this year and I asked the person giving the presentation if that was a photo of Guadelupe Peak in West Texas and he said he didn't know, but he said it was on all power point presentations. Does anybody know what mountain peak is pictured on Power Point?

[dabody7]

I prefer the power point for music cause I am deaf and a cochlear implant user. I have about 85% hearing but still need help in knowing the words to songs. I used to keep a binder full of songs but would spend half the time looking for it and now they have it up on the screen which saves me the trouble of figuring out the song and allows me to get into what they are singing. I am not a big fan of powerpoint during preaching......the only power should be the Holy Ghost.

[jfred]

I personally don't see anything wrong with Technology being used in homes or in the Church service. If it takes away from what God is doing then it's not good but for some it doesn't. I know some people are so hung up on things they can't worship if there is a monitor or screen.

At our church we have the blessing of being a brand new group of people so the technology we have we all like and there is nobody there to throw a fit and leave because of power points, stage lighting, monitors, etc...

We would have had problems for some people but those all left when we had the audacity to use clowns in the auditorium at our old building, or was it when we dared show a "video" from UPC general confrence, or maybe when my Dad taught a Wednesday Bible study to the Adults a few years back and used an old Carman song as an example and played (I think) "America Again" little things that are just way to much for some people to handle.

I heard a great message a few years ago titled "Hang up your hang ups" It looked at some of these things.

Jamin

[TodayAGiftFrGod]

I don't think technology is the problem, the problem is us. It's what you do with something that makes it good or bad, not just having it.
AMEN! . . . People have, however, been so programmed that "this and that" are "wrong" rather than being taught "right from wrong" in "concept" that it is so hard for some people to grasp it...

I thank God for my revelation and for breaking me out of that bondage and that was how I felt about it too... Bound to rules and regs that changed from one church to the other rather than freedom in Jesus whereever I go...

[TodayAGiftFrGod]

I heard a great message a few years ago titled "Hang up your hang ups" It looked at some of these things.

Jamin
Great message and concept... Glad God delivered me from them...

[Former PK]

I don't think technology is the problem, the problem is us. It's what you do with something that makes it good or bad, not just having it


AMEN! . . . People have, however, been so programmed that "this and that" are "wrong" rather than being taught "right from wrong" in "concept" that it is so hard for some people to grasp it...

I thank God for my revelation and for breaking me out of that bondage and that was how I felt about it too... Bound to rules and regs that changed from one church to the other rather than freedom in Jesus whereever I go...

Light Knight and Today, both make good points. I especially agree with the phrase about this and that being wrong......

Of course in the context of 35 plus years ago. Most folks could only get one or two channels, even in the big cities, you had maybe five if you had an independant and PBS. There was not enought content that was considered acceptable, that included Roy Rogers ( just for a measuring tool ). That the entire medium, was considered flith. Except for the news, if you could turn it off. And the next step was that a person wouldn't. So therefore toss the whole thing.

So instead of teaching restrain, we vilified the technology. Now we have ways of using it that could easily benefit the church. Beside the fact that we have a much wider range of acceptable programs and allong with the fact that we have seriously lowered our standards on what is ok to watch.

Changes in the technoogy, such as camera size and cost, Tape and DVD's and computer monitors, have made it a much more accessible media. But we are still stuck with what we were teaching decades ago. And the quandry is that we were either wrong then or we are wrong now!!!!!

The basic problem with new technology and the church is that, there are worldy enities that have the funds to use new things as they come along. We tend to be at least 5 years behind. By that time, the world has capitalized on it. And we stand in the dust, pointing a finger, and calling it worldly. Again I will state that we have not had an orginal thought since 1945. Most everything we have barrowed from the Baptist.