I am in a dilemma

[Bro.Steingass]

Brothers, Sisters,

My wife and I have been attending a church in Ft. Wayne, IN for the past year. We both came back to the Lord about a year ago, were re-filled, and have been Living for the Lord very happily. However, 6 months or so ago, Her parents started coming to our church. At first, It was great, we saw signs of improvement in them almost immediately.

Allow me to digress shortly:

My wife was raised in the truth, however, she, and her parents were raised under a dictatorial pastor. As a result of the living conditions, she never really gave her heart to the lord completely, and backslid along with an entire generation. Her parents continued to live under different pastors, different churches, but the same old story.

Her father is the type who can sing and shout, and praise the Lord, and then on the Car-ride home be as hateful and mean as possible. He is selfish, money-driven, and would just as soon make a buck off of his kids and grandkids than help them if they need tires, etc. He will yell at his wife that the Chicken is cold while she slaves away at the kitchen preparing dinner, then yell at her for splashing water on her blouse while at the sink. Immediately he'll ask hatefully why his glass of Pop is not full. He is greedy, selfish, and hateful, has been his whole life, yet he knows scripture, and otherwise of course is faithful to the lord.

My wife still bears scars from this kind of upbringing. Her Dad will be quick to tell anyone that "they need to pray" or "they'd better go to church:" etc. etc. but God-forbid his fully-grown, backslidden kids tell him anything about himself.

he is feared. However at times he can be mellow, and he is knowlegeable on numerous subjects, so conversation is never a problem, and ultimately, he's her Dad, and my Father-in-law, so we love him, and want nothing more than to see him come to the realization of his faults (1: admittance) and then to a genuine altar of repentance (2: repentance), and finally some life changes (3: action)

I can say, honestly, from experience, that spending too much time with him can easiy influence one to act in like fashion.

Her mother is a genuine prayer warrior, while yet very uneducated, she has been more or less forced into submission to him. She puts up with more than any woman should ever IMHO.

SO, when their church folded (no one attended) they began attending ours, as I said, we saw immediate improvements, however, it has become just like times of old, they feel as if they have to tell us when to pray, what to do, etc. etc.

We backslid initially after we were married for 6 years, for this very same reason, we could not feel free to worship in our way, because we were expected to walk their walk with God, and not our own.

We refuse to backslide again, however, the atmosphere is continually tense.

Before anyone says "Just Pray about it" save your keyboard, because we have been praying about it and praying for strength, and praying for patience, and praying for the ability to forgive.

Still it continues. My wife has been withdrawn, she says she doesn't feel free to worship because she's being analyzed constantly, she didn't even feel like going to church.

She determined that she wanted to find a different Church.

"We found our church on our personal calling from God, then they came and took it all away."

Here is the Dillema:

I don't want to find a new church, I can overlook them and their problems, just like I expect my Brothers and Sisters not to condemn me for my shortcomings. I teach SUnday School, We work in the church on whatever needs done, We fellowship regularly with the wonderful friends we've attained, We love our Pastor, We Love the Saints. And yet, what is all that if We cannot feel God.

We discussed, we argued, we even fought some. I understand her position, I respectfully disagree, however, I have seen a wife go elsewhere while her husband stays, and it is not healthy, nor do I believe it's right.

I expalained that regardless we owe the Pastor reason and explanation, so the proper thing to do is talk to him.

We have this scheduled for this evening, and I am very worried, regardless of faith.

[stmatthew]

Bro Steingass,

I believe going to your Pastor with this dilemma is the proper action to take. I encourage you to lay it all out to him and hold nothing back. Here his coucil on the matter. I am praying for you even now.

[Bro.Steingass]

Thank You Brother,

I believe the same, however, My wife is hesitant to speak becuase of the fact that if the Pastor sees the problems, she wants God to reveal it to him instead of us.

She doesn't want to be telling all of her Dad's problems to the Pastor.

[stmatthew]

Bro,

I don't believe it should be a "he does this, and he does that" meeting. Start with you and your wife. Where are you battling. How are you dealing with it. Are you and your wife hearing God, or are situations hindering. Focus on your feelings and how you and your wife can better coop with the situation at hand. What are the options.

I truly am praying for you and your wife. This is probably the most difficult battle to face. Family.

[tufluv]

Well, brother, with all of us praying for you, it should goes just as GOD wants, and you as well., that is, if you've made up your mind to do whatever it takes, and I will pray that your pastor is truly lead of GOD, in his counsel to you. I will bring you up in prayer at church tonight.
Someone once said that GOD allows us to go through trials so that whatever we learn, assuming we endure, we can pass on to others, that is my fondest goal.
GOD BLESS YOU! Walk by Faith, even afraid!

[Hebrews116]

Originally posted by Bro.Steingass
My wife is hesitant to speak becuase of the fact that if the Pastor sees the problems, she wants God to reveal it to him instead of us.

She doesn't want to be telling all of her Dad's problems to the Pastor.


Bro. Steingass, one thing to remember, your Pastor is just a man. God doesn't tell him everything and every little detail that's wrong in everyone's life that sit's under him.

This Christian walk is a walk by Faith. It takes Faith to sit down with your Pastor and share what you're dealing with. He may ask for some time to pray about it, with which to find the mind of God in the matter and give you good, solid, and godly advice.

Go to him. That is the best advice.

God Bless

[foreverblessed]

I agree with Stmatt that you need to take the situation to your Pastor, especially since it concerns your walk with God.

Your wife also needs to realize that although God does speak directly to a pastor about needs of the saints, it is usually in more general terms.
I used to think my Dad (who was my pastor) had a direct phone line to heaven, and sometimes it used to scare the wits out of me. Although he had a keen spirit of discernment, he was just older and experienced and knew people pretty good.
Later, when my brother became pastor, I realized that God doesn't usually reveal to Pastors what is going on in a saints life. They might see the deterioration of your spiritual walk and be concerned and pray for you, but are probably just as clueless as the next person.
Your pastor really needs to know what your facing in your personal life so he can help in whatever way he can. Don't sit around waiting for God to reveal something to him.

Second thing:
No one can hurt you any deeper than family. I know this from experience. There is a very fine line between love and hate.

You as the head of household and spiritual leader of your home, needs to stand up and refuse to allow anyone or anything to come between you and God, or against your family unit. Once you leave and cleave, you become a separate family from all those inlaws. Don't allow anyone to destroy it!
If your wife grew up with the emotional abuse, then you need to protect her from that same source of emotional abuse from ever hurting her again. Be firm, tell them, if you can't respect my wife, and family, your not going to be apart of my family and everyday life. Stick to it, put your foot down. Don't give them any choice but to follow your rules. Go ahead be the bad guy. Your shoulders are strong enough to take it. Trust me. It will work!

No one including family, can hurt, take advantage of, or manipulate you, unless you allow them too.

Hope this helps, God bless you, and I will be praying for you!

[Bro.Steingass]

Thank you Brothers and Sisters,

We have spoken with our pastor, He could only offer his biased opinion that he didn't want us to leave, and he offered to begin praying about it, and we should do the same. He also suggested a discussion (confrontation).

I love this, he offered her answer in the form of a question. "Don't take this the wrong way, but don't you think you're running from the problem?"

Which is so very true, if we run, we give up everything in trade for something that is not for sure (new church, etc.), her parents then don't have to do anything, they may follow us someday. But if we stay and learn to adapt, and learn to co-exist with them regardless, creating a sort of "insulator", then the problem can be solved.

I will lead that confrontation, I suppose if they can forgive and forget other things that have happened to them involving their other Kids, then surely, even a temporary "no-speak" is worth the insulator that is built in the end.

Thank you brothers and sisters. This is truly what the Family of God is all about---Help like this. :)

Reminds me of that old song...The church...triumphant

God bless all of you!

[truemessianic]

Bro. Steingrass, I will pray for you in this matter, as well as your wife and entire family.

[Bro.Steingass]

Thanks truemessianic,

and thank you all for the prayers, they are truly coveted.

BTW,, truemessianic, is that picture on the wall behind you hanging crooked? or is it just my eyes?

God Bless

[truemessianic]

Hold up...
That picture is not crooked. It's straight. It's the house that's crooked!!! LOL
Naw, it is an unusual plaque of the 10 Commandments on the wall in my dining room/office.

[ddc101]

Bro.Steingass,
I read all the posts here tonight.May I ask if you wife knows that you are discussing this on the net? Would she be offended if you ask her to come and discuss her feelings here at the cafe? It may do her alot of good.Sometimes women are taught that to be anything but agreeable will rock the boat and Lord forbid we rock it.So then they harbor the feelings inside and it leads to anger and bitterness.I for one hate confrontation.Especially is it leads to name calling and backbiting.These things are real and can happen.You Father in law does deserve respect even of you disagree.I for one know that my dad feels that no matter how old I am that he is still the dad and I am still the daughter.I have had to tell him on more than one instance that things are my husbands decision to make and not his.Any man can accept this if approached in the right manner.For instance.If your wife told her dad some really good things such as...Dad you raised me right and to be submissive to my husband and to love the Lord and then go into why she takes the stance she does.This would pave the way for an open discussion rather than a big all out name calling argument with anger and people leaving the will of God kind of thing.Parents are sensitive but when we show them respect things work out.We still have to honor our mothers and fathers and yet be mature enough to draw the line nicely.Funny
I know some parents much like yours...hehehe...sis.c

[bishop1]

BROTHER;

Some years ago I fasted and prayed for Patience.

I got nothing but all kinds of trouble and it seemed as if everything was crashing down around me. Nothing was going right and it seemed as if all of Heaven had closed it's doors.

One morning, as I was praying at my usual 4:00 a.m. prayer time, The Lord Spoke To Me "You Wanted Patience" and impressed me to read these scriptures. I immediately got up and read - - -
ROMANS 5:1/5 - - - -

{1} - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with GOD thorough Our Lord Jesus Christ:

{2} - By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in the hope of the glory of GOD.

{3} - And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also; knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

{4} - And patience, experience, and experience hope;

{5} - And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of GOD is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Brother,
- - - I've Already Read The Book - -
- - - - - AND WE WIN !

:angel: :bow: :tup:

[Jim]

Brother Steingass,

There is another thread that I believe you may find helpful for the situation you have described.

The title is:

For foreverblessed: Boundaries

I hope you will consider purchasing the Boundaries books and workbooks for your family. You will find many practical biblically based strategies for improving relationships with people like your father-in-law.

I will post a message in the Boundaries thread to bring it to the front of the Cafe as it doesn't show up unless you request more that the last 30 days of posts

God bless,

Jim

[Oldpreach]

I read this Brothers initial post and one thing came to mind , and that is , a confrontation.

Then i read thru the responses and am disappointed that really no one suggested this. But , his Pastor did , thnk the Lord.

Let me tell you all something , if i may. The idea of tolerating this kind of behavior is so absurd that it makes me wonder if many of you have the right concept of the Lords teachings in this area. Do you really think cowering to a Christian hypocrite helps them>???? Well , if you do , you are wrong. I have seen this repeat it self so many times its just sickiening. This man needs to be called on this at once. First , with the Pastor at this poor Brothers side. And if that doesnt help , in front of all.

It is my experience that many times the teachings of Jesus regarding Church disipline are ignored and we put our concepts in place of them in the name of "kindness" when all longsuffering and kindness has already been exhausted. I have seen some go reprobate because they were just allowed to run amuk in there meaness , misbehavior and hyp-a-critterness. They developed a false sense of rightness because no one would call them on it like the Lord said to do.

At least Bro. Jim brought up the concept of boundries. I have those books. But , this is far past that even that unless it is of the utmost seriousness. People do NOT get better when you tolerate their nonsense...they go reprobate ! So , for everyones sake , do it quick , before its too late ! Let this man know in no uncertain terms that you will not fellowship him until he gets it together. This is scripture !!! Oh , how we replace God sometimes !

Im only saying all this because i know that all love has already been shown. Plez take this the right way if you end up reading this Bro. Steingass.

[Bro.Steingass]

Originally posted by Oldpreach
I have seen some go reprobate because they were just allowed to run amuk in there meaness , misbehavior and hyp-a-critterness. They developed a false sense of rightness because no one would call them on it like the Lord said to do.



You sir, are explaining exactly what we fear. It is a touchy situation indeed, however, I have been so graciously blessed with the prayers of so many of you and friends here.

If God be for us, who can be against us.

When asked if My wife cared abou discussing this: I assume I am mostly annonymous.


Thank you Brothers, Sisters, May God Bless You.

Oldpreach: I love your sig line:

I love this quote too:

"The authority of the civil defense ... issued a warning to the civilian population not to pick up any of those pencils because they are booby traps," he said, adding that the British and American forces were "immoral mercenaries" and "war criminals" for such behavior.
"I am not talking about the American people and the British people," he said. "I am talking about those mercenaries. ... They have started throwing those pencils, but they are not pencils, they are booby traps to kill the children." - M.S.S.

ROTFL

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

Amen Bro. Silva! I do not believe a Christian needs to tolerate any type of abuse or offense, but after prayer act on the scriptures: "...if your brother offend you..."
Step Two: "...if your brother hear you not, take with you one or two more [other witnesses]..."
Step Three: "...if he neglect to hear them, tell it to the Church..."
I do not read where the Pastor should be the 'sole' arbiter, but that all things should be established "...by the mouth of two wittnesses or three." Naturally, these witnesses should be 'faithful' and not just three friends of whoever feels offended.
Of course, there is more, but...

Brother Villa

[ddc101]

Yeah Old Preach,
Let him go in there and blow them all out of the water and cause a family breach that could take years to heal.I am sure the bible supports that.Meanwhile all of us lilly livered cowards will be crying our eyes out at the report.lv sis.c

[Oldpreach]

To Bro. Stiengass: Yes , may the Lord belss you and yours also. Also ,yes , there are so many jewels be M.S.S. , they are hard to keep track of ! He is the best thing ever....


To ddc: guess your ingnoring half my post to this Brother. You have no idea the experience ive had with this exact situation. Plez take the venom elsewhere.

[pastorb]

Brother Steingass,

It appears to me that this is more your wifes problem instead of her dads.

After reading this the bible says Husbands love your wives as Christ love the church and gave himself for it. I know how hard it is to leave when you plant roots.

I had to learn that my first ministry was my wife and children. Teaching Sunday school, sitting on the pulpit and all the other accolades don't matter if your immediate family is suffering.

Your ministry will always make room for you where ever you go, but as the priest of your house you have to provide an environment condusive to worship in and out of church.

I work Graveyard and my wife work for the city Government but when I get home and before she leaves we wake up everybody and we pray to cover eachother as well as the home. Don't allow the devil to use this as a wedge to come against your home.

I Don't know your personal situation but I will become confrontational when it comes to my wife amd family. If the environment with her parents is a strong hinderance and she is suffering because of it.

My suggestion would be to talk to your pastor as everyone has suggested, seek the mind of God in prayer and for the sake of your wifes sanity comeout from among the unclean thing, and let her see that you have her back.

Isn't there a sister church that your pastor can refer you to?

[ddc101]

Oldpreach,
I have no venom.But how well can one actually know a situation when all sides have not been heard.lv sis.c