Is It Ever Permissible For A Christian To Kill?

[Faithchild]

Xerf. In His Service. I'm not seeking validation for murder in my heart!:D I know that the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" should be rendered, "Thou Shalt Not Murder." So, I'm aware there is a distinction between personal pre-meditated killing, etc. Is the Bible against a death resulting from killing an intuder? Or from killing as a soldier in war? Suicide? Euthanasia? I'm researching these subjects and am interested in your input.

[Hebrews116]

I have to admit, FC, sometimes your wording makes it difficult to just give you an answer. This is going to require some thought based upon the way you worded the question.

God Bless!

[Thelordisone]

A Christian should never kill. How many did the Lord Jesus Kill or his apostles?

God Bless!!

[justavessel4him]

It is not even permissible to hate!!!!!

[Faithchild]

The Bible is silent about the possibility or not if the Lord and his disciples ever had to physically defend themselves against attack.We simply don't know. In that same vein, killing isn't always done out of hatred. Sometimes it's out of fear, duty, sympathy. I'm not after knee-jerk platitudes here, I'm looking for Bible answers.

[Ysan]

What if a man trys to kill your family or break into your house. I wouldn't use "shalt not kill" as a reason to at least wound and apprehend the criminal. If the carnal flesh takes over and you use brute strenghth, and the criminal dies; I'm not sure.

As for killing in war, there are times when we must serve our country. I'm not sure if serving the country is justified, but I rarely doubt if you were killed in war after killing another individual that it would be held against you. I could be wrong, thankfully I don't know anyone personally who died in war.

[truemessianic]

Killing an intruder...I don't know. I know this, if a man were to come to my house armed andtry to do harm to my family, I will not hesitate to defend the lives of the ones I love by any means necessary. However, if there can be a non-violent solution, then I am all for it.
As for military service, I believe it is an honorable calling, and as such, should be honored. When one goes into the military, the call to defend from enemy forces may ask for there to be violence and death. Is it OK? No violence is OK. But, I do not think that in such circumstances it is wrong.

[Ysan]

I agree with you truemessianic,
I just got done discussing this on #bible on undernet. People who say they would not defend their family or country is something that I can not comprehend. I know familys who would give their own life defending one another. This is one of the greatest kinds of love.

Luke 17:33 Whoever seeks to save his life loses it, but whoever loses his life preserves it.

[Xerf]

One is unable to claim that God doesn't kill for HE says:

Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

BUT neither can one justify killing because of Deut. 32:39

BECAUSE

FOR one to be justified in killing, one must also be able to say.... "and I make alive."

I kill -- I make Alive

I Wound -- I heal

To be able to do ONE you must be able to perform BOTH!

Far as I know..............ONLY GOD can do both!

THUS the commandment.........."thou shalt not kill"

(btw, this is talking of motivation, not self-defense, but a heart condition that, akin to lust, ends in an act)

IMHO

:)

[Xerf]

ooooooooooooppps..............I forgot to use my stiff-laced other me...............sorry!!!!!

:)

[Bro.Steingass]

I wonder the same thing, my mind mulls these things:

Didn't the Hebrew people have God's blessing on their wars? God told them on numerous occasions to fight.

1Sa 23:2 Therefore David inquired of the LORD, saying, Shall I go and smite these Philistines? And the LORD said unto David, Go, and smite the Philistines, and save Keilah.


Here it was not only commanded, but "right in the eyes of the Lord"

Deu 13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

Deu 13:14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

Deu 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

Deu 13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again.

Deu 13:17 And there shall cleave naught of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;

Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.


Now, I understand that in these cases God was directly commanding the killing, but God has always blessed Israel in wars far beyond their Physical abilities.

Israeli War of Independence (1948-1949):

"Upon independence, Israel was invaded by the armies of six Arab nations: Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. In addition, local Arab Palestinian forces also fought the Jewish Israelis."

(source: The History Guy)

In this more recent case, Israel did not have the Military and Technological advantages they have today. Some historians have described them as a bunch of rag-tag soldiers without a real military heirarchy. And miraculously, they fought of the defenders.

I believe this is merely prophecy, and God's promise to the Children of Israel fulfilled, however, that is a different discussion for a different time.

**CLARIFICATION**I'm not claiming these scriptures justify killing, I am just musing. Food for thought.

[committed]

I have wondered about this, too. To me the scripture when Peter cut off the ear of the soldier pretty much sums it up. But self defense in something else....I can say what I would like to do, but no one knows until something happens....and then I would say God looks at the heart. He knows our hearts and what we are thinking....and he knows that we are just clay....I believe it would be case by case situation, except, if you had all along intended to kill someone....that would be different....in my opinion anyway.

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

Beloved, it depends on one's personal convictions, according to previous posts on the subject. Another thing, if we are trying to justify killing, then we will definitely use the Old Testament scriptures; but if we do not condone it, then of course we will rely on the New Testament.
The primitive Church did not try to defend itself, but fled persecution, and preached the Gospel as they went; see the testimony of Phillip. After the Day of Pentecost, there is no record of the Church killing anyone, but of being killed "...for His Name's sake..."
The Lord expressed a difference between the "... daughters of MEN..." and the "...sons of God..." Are we called to act as 'men', or as the sons of God? Is killing another "...suffering wrong..."; or can it be said to be a "...work of righteousness..."?
My guess is there are some that will defend killing another, and use 'history' to justify their rationalizations.
"I place before you good and evil, life and death; CHOOSE , therefore, LIFE..."

Brother Villa

[BroDane]

Yes, it is permissible to put members to death:

Col 3:5 Put to death, then, your members that are upon the earth--whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry YLT

[Faithchild]

Hnovilla, If I am being attacked for the cause of Christ, I feel like it's proper to shield myself and attempt to block the blows but I shouldn't actively seek to physically harm the persecuter. HOWEVER if it's just a mugger, etc., I feel fully justified in protecting myself by whatever means necessary.

[In His Service]

Bro. Villa,
Well said!!
Prayers your way
Bro. Timothy

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

Beloved, when is ever NOT for the cause of Christ?

Brother Villa

[Faithchild]

Bro. Steingass, I appreciate the time you put into your post. At the moment I am stewing on it's implications. As the holidays (grandkids,etc.) are screaming for my attention, I'll have to get back to the GNC on Monday evening. God bless!

[tufluv]

I really thought that this has/had been covered already on numerous other threads! Talk about :bore:!
[I know, I don't have to read it!] but there's so much talk going on & on & on about the war, does killing have to be such a prevalent topic of discussion amongst Apostolics? There should not even BE any question, about killing/murder, if one looks back to the numerous other related threads. How is this edifying? If speaking about holidays is not edifying in any way, how is this?
Just curious.
Bro.Dane: your post #131 was at least a new take! :D

[ddc101]

Hi Bro.Yohe,
No I don't believe its permissable to kill.It was one of the ten commandments.Jesus further emphasized this when he said to love your neighbor,and love your brother.I personally can say that I have felt the urge to harm people before in my flesh.But thats retaliation.I believe that we are to follow after the shepherd Jesus Christ and manifest the same spirit that he did.
Unjust treatment of his humanity did anger him.But I am truly for the scripture that says:

Rom 12:19-21
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
(KJV)

lv sis.c

[O2blikehim]

IS IT EVER PERMISSIBLE FOR A CHRISTIAN TO KILL?

Sure a Christian may kill! As long as you only kill other Christians, and you do it with deep heartfelt love.

Also you should observe the limits and quotas just as you should with hunting animals, and do not let your prey suffer for extended periods of time.

:yeah:

I would also recommend entering into deep worship at the completion of the killings, to make sure God gets the glory. May I suggest some ilse runnings and other worship frenzies.

Stephen

[Ysan]

Originally posted by tufluv
does killing have to be such a prevalent topic of discussion amongst Apostolics?

How is this edifying? If speaking about holidays is not edifying in any way, how is this?


What should be the main topic be in the Apostolic denomination? Yeshua? ;)

I see your point, not many of these topics here are edifying. Killing plays a major role in American Patriotism, some even associate war with freedom. Stonewall Jackson and Anecdote Burnside are two familiar characters in history. Some schools teach children about the civil war, which I personally believe plays on the intellectual and subconscious levels of the mind which make killing seem justified because they see murders as heros. We need prayer back in our schools!

[Faithchild]

Tufluv, I see your point. Why should Apostolics be able to relate to the times? Why we are citizens of another world! Why should we seek to go to "the world" when we can sit around our keyboards and edify ourselves? Let's not learn how to answer society's questions from the Bible. Why should we think or try to make the world see that the Bible IS relavent to today's problems? Why should we proclaim that Jesus is the answer? After all we SHOULD'NT spend anytime thinking about those problems! Talk about a snore! Just tell them to obey Acts 2:38 or go to Hell! Now that's what I call edifying!

Thank you, Tufluv for that admonition.:beammeup:

[justavessel4him]

But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood. I Chronicles 28:3 Doesn't look to me like God was too pleased with shedding another man's blood even in the Old Testament

[In His Service]

Vessel,
That was very good! We read because he was a man of war!

DDC, I enjoyed your post also. Avenge not ourselves, guess that leaves out self defense would it not, :~). Isn't it great how God covers all the bases!!!!

Prayers for all,
Bro. timothy

[tufluv]

AMEN, Vessel & Bro.Tim! :angel:

[Bro.Steingass]

Faithchild,

Good Points. The basis for Christian Belief is the belief that the Bible is the unerring Word of God. We could start a whole new thread on "Oprah Christians" who believe that the evil Jews just invented the entire Old Testament to edify themselves and invent their closeness to God.

Without the common belief that the Bible IS, then the belief that Jesus IS, can seemingly never be taught, at least I cannot understand it.

I will start that thread.

[Thelordisone]

Amen Hnovilla!!

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

Beloved, is it ever NOT 'for the cause of Christ'?

Brother Villa

[jhlent]

Bro. Jim,
Yes I feel that we New Testament believers are justified in killing – not murdering, but in killing.
There is a fine line between the two – but never the less a line just the same.
I don’t have my note available on this – I will look for them.
I also feel that there is sufficient evidence for death penalty today.
Those that advocate non-violence seem to always sling a different tune – when it comes home to them. Let someone try to hurt their child or grandchild and sit back for a new bible study on how they were justified in “Defending” their family.

p.s. :photo: - pssssst hey Bro Jim
Some say I feel that way because I’m “Italian” and it’s a part of my heritage.
Well their wrong………. :realmad:


I’m actually of “Sicilian” decent. Chicago Style
:jk: