Disappointed by Dad

[havefaithinGod]

I don't know if this is the best place to put this, but I wanted to get it off my chest. I have talked to my husband, mother, mother-in-law, and brothers and sister but considering the situation, they are all partial to my side. I need advice of a non-involved party. So here goes:

My parents divorced when I was 4. That was 20 yrs ago. He has barely been part of our lives. He came to get us once in a while. Sometimes he would go for months without a phone call or a letter. Sometimes my aunt (and pastors wife) would call to let us know that there would be a little get-together at her house because MY DAD WAS IN TOWN. Well thanks Dad for calling and letting us know! He wasnt a part of our schooling or our school activities. My mother worked very hard trying to take care of the 4 of us, alone. He payed child support when he felt like it or when he got thrown in jail for NOT PAYING.
He lived in the same state as us a whole of 1 year (6 months one time and 6 months another) in the 15 years I lived at home after the divorce. When I was 19, married, with a 11 month old Dad had a bad motorcycle wreck in Dallas Texas, where he was living at the time. The doctors didnt give him a very good chance of living. Naturally, no matter what had happened in the past, all four of his children dropped everything to be with him. Not because he had been such an active part of our life, but because inspite of it all, he was our father and we still loved him no matte what.
After the wreck, he couldnt walk for at least a year. The only family he had was in Tennessee, where I grew up. So he moved back there so his sisters and brother could help him out. I visited him as often as I could get to town. (I live an hour or so away.) I called him and checked on him almost everyday.
Since he has recovered from that incident, he found out he had cancer. They put him through chemo and they had toremove his nose. He is better. There is no more cancer in his body, Thank the Lord! I can understand how hard it must be to go in public places and have people staring at you. He doesnt really go out much.
But here is alot of my problem. Before I got in church (he is a backslider) he was ready to come every service and take me and even go with me just to see me back in church. Now that we have made up in our minds that nothing can stand inour way, I cant get him to go. I call him EVERY weekend and tell him that there is church on sunday. Id love to see him there. He keeps putting me off. He will tell me he will go next weekend if he can, then he will say at the last minute that he dont think he will go. It hurts me that he keeps putting me off.
My children were dedicated at church Sunday night and I asked my little brother to come. My oldest brother and his girlfriend came into town from Texas and they didnt know anything about it. They had other plans but put them off for a few hours just to be there for me. My mother raised us to be there for each other and I know that if anything happens in the next 5 minutes I could call my brothers and sister and they would drop everything if possible to be with me. Even my brother in Texas and my sister in Georgia.
Its sad that my father doesnt hold family as close as we do. He wants us to call him and visit him. He wants us to put forth so much effort but he doesnt want to give in return. We can call him and he will talk for 3 minutes. If someone beeps in or comes in, he will let us go. It hurts very badly that our father doesnt want to talk to us any more than that.
My husband and I have had some difficulties lately. Our car tore up and the ONLY way we could get something else is by getting a small loan from my dad. He is always telling me if there is something he can do let him know. When I let him know, he always makes me feel bad and cry before he will say yes. Its almost like he wants the glory without the effort.
My mother-in-law and husband think I should tell him how I feel. They think I should let him know how bad he has hurt me in the past and that it bothers me how he does. I dont want to hurt his feelings.

I know this has been alot of rambling and a little more information than needed, but I needed to get the whole story out there to make it understandable. I have been just trying to pray for him. But with all this bitterness toward him I still have bundled up, I am afraid the only way to get over it IS to have a talk with him.

Thanks for taking the time to read this..
April

[tufluv]

Well first off welcome to this cafe!

Glad you feel you could come here for some help from any of us..

Although our admin. tells us we are not to give anyone any advice, unfortuneately.

BUT..so as to avoid upsetting admin., I think its okay if we use the private messaging system that is set up here for us to use..in order to speak more privately..unless we hear otherwise that it is okay for any one here to speak to you publicly.

Or you may email me as well, I'm always ready to lend an ear..and offer any thing that may help out. I'm not perfect, for sure!
I may be out of pocket here for a few days..so I will just quickly PM you..you will know when this happens..I think. Bye for now.

[havefaithinGod]

OH, I think I even read that somewhere and just totally forgot. Thanks for the input and I got the message.

[Apostolic Kitty]

My mother-in-law and husband think I should tell him how I feel. They think I should let him know how bad he has hurt me in the past and that it bothers me how he does. I dont want to hurt his feelings.
I understand you don't want to hurt his feelings, but the thing is that he needs to get his feelings hurt. No, I don't mean that in a nasty way. What I mean is that the man needs to feel sorrow for how his actions have hurt his children.

I do agree that it would be good if you would sit down and have a heart to heart with him about how you feel, but let it be in a neutral place and without any bitterness coming through. In other words, in love -- not out of anger.

[pentecostal mom]

Hello and welcome. I have been in your situation and am in it now my father has never been a part of my life. This was his choice and now that he is in bad health he wants to be a daddy. All I can say is to be careful not to let this affect your spiritual walk. You will have to come to grips with and forgive your father for the pain and hurt he has caused you.

[tufluv]

Well, since the hammer has not come down on this thread, and persons have posted without being banned..I will make this one post.

I believe that there are many of us who have or are, disappointed in a family member.
Especially in this day/age where there are so many broken families.
Many innocent victims are left spiritually scarred for life even.

YET, if one knows JESUS..and truly believes in HIM..that HE can transform lives as HE has done over and over..
..then I believe that some measure of comfort can be provided by that knowledge, and knowing that GOD is in control; we can pray that HE give us strength to handle delicate situations in a manner that HE would approve of..

We know that GOD was merciful to US..and that we should in turn be merciful to others. THe Bible says that we are to 'honor your mother and father'...it is not a suggestion.
It may be hard to do..but overcoming the inclination to "let 'em have it" would be so much more pleasing to GOD, I think..and result in even greater blessings within our lives..some that may not even be apparent at first.

We are to bury our animosities along with our old self.
It can be difficult to get over hurts, but it is well worth it. It may not be easy, but it CAN be done. We have our Savior as the perfect role model.

My own parents hurt me (and still do) in ways that strike as 'darts' within my heart/soul, but understanding goes a long ways. Forgiveness even farther. We may still hurt, no matter what.
But one glorious day, we will enter the realm where there will be no more sufferings - Hallelujah! All will be forgotten/forgiven! :yeah:

I am not against sincere confrontation, or long heart-to-heart talks - as long as they are approached in a kind, gentle manner; as much as possible. And it can be emotional, of course. We are human., no big surprise! lol
LOVE should be foremost, though..

Our LORD can wipe away all tears, :bow: if we let HIM.

[havefaithinGod]

I appreciate all of you who have posted. In a way I guess this is an advice thread, but as I have always been one to ask for advice and then never take it, I dont consider it as such. (You are not wasting your time . I am taking this all into consideration.)
I think the thing I am more worried about is that he will be the same way with my children. He will always want them to contact him and visit him, but he will never take the time to put them first when they do so. I dont ask to be first in his life all the time. But when I visit him or call him, I expect him to put everything aside (except something urgent) and take time out for me. I THINK I AM THAT SPECIAL!!!
I would like to sit down and have a heart-to-heart with him, but I am afraid I would just end up being angry or I would hurt him beyond repair. My father isnt saved and I am afraid I would do damage that would cause him to never come to the Lord. It is always something to ponder when talking to anyone. For now I will pray for him and in spite of his treatment of his children, I will show him nothing but love. Maybe that love will help lead him to the Lord. God can do all things!

April

[NanaRenan]

April -- just read your signature. You have a Father who loves you, has always been there for you and drops everything when you need Him. Praise God!

Now -- I agree with you -- I had to walk back into my father's life just before he died, in spite of serious hurt and being shut out by him. Why?

*Because he was my father and the Word of God commands me to honor him.*

Just as saved wives with unsaved husbands are to submit, like it or not, as long as it doesn't cause them to sin -- children are to honor their parents, like them or not.

I would guess that a lot of his problems are a lack of social skills and relationship skills -- probably contributed to the failure of his marriage and his lack of contact throughout your life. These things are learned early in life and never really change unless the person recognizes their flaw and works hard to correct it....and, of course, allows God to help them.

I'm not advising you what you should do, only speculating on what I might do in your situation. Since your contact with him was so limited during your formative years and your relation some what unfamiliar, I would jsut have a good long sit-down with him. I know that I would be very emotionally vulnerable, so I'd probably make notes on specific things I needed to get said AND I'd have someone supportive included in case I broke down. (My husband is very diplomatic and always served me well in this way.)

Then I would tell him how I felt. A few times we had to borrow money -- my mother wasn't happy until I groveled and begged and then she never let me forget what she'd done YEARS after it had been repaid. That hurt, and I wish I could go back and tell her AT THE TIME how badly it hurt.

I'd tell him how much I want to see him in church, how you want him to be different with his grandchildren than he was with ya'll, etc. I think if you keep to your notes and choose your words carefully you can convey these thoughts without causing harm or hurting his feelings.

Now -- THIS IS A WORD OF ADVICE!! :beammeup:

IF you decide to do this, rehearse it. Several times if need be. Make very sure that it doesn't turn into a blaming game. That is very easily done when emotions are involved.

Turn every point back on yourself. Instead of "You shouldn't have..." or "You never did...." which puts people on the defensive and they aren't hearing you because they are formulating their defense in their head.

Make it "When you did _____ , I felt ______ ."

Or "When you said _____ , I heard _______ ."

A lot of time we never have a clue how something we said or did impacted someone because we weren't inside their head at that moment.

This type of communication has helped our marriage. My husband's upbringing was very different from mine and he isn't still scarred from it today. He can make innocent remarks that would mean nothing to him, but they are filtered thru all my "baggage" and feel hurtful to me. I do the "When you said _____ , I heard _______ ." with him ALL the time. It helps me to find out what he REALLY meant, which is never as bad as I imagined. And it helps him know to choose his words a little more carefully.

Anyhow -- that's my helpful hint for today. I'll be praying for you, April.

P.S. I forgot to add in that writing a letter is always an option, as well. But, your skill a communicating your feelings as well as the persons ability to read and accurately assess what is being said has to be taken into consideration.

There are people I could have written a letter to, but it wouldn't have worked on my Dad. And I've even helped edit letters....one lady I worked with on my last job was estranged from her father and he was dying. She wanted to let him know how badly he'd hurt her before he was gone. She showed me the letter she had written every sentence was "You never..." and "You always..."

She gave me permission to write an alternative letter. I just merely took every thing she said and changed it to "When you did this, I felt thus." She broke down and cried when she read it. She said, "What I wrote was all angry and would have only made him mad back. This is how I really feel."

Unfortunately, I don't know the results of that letter...my job there ended and I didn't see her again. But whether it helped her make peace with her father or not, it helped her recognize how to communicate with him not only on paper but in person.

[ddc101]

Sister April,
Just reading your message.Heres what I get.Your dad sounds like he is carrying a load of guilt.Forgive him and loose him in the Spirit realm.lv sis.c

[tufluv]

April -- just read your signature. You have a Father who loves you, has always been there for you and drops everything when you need Him. Praise God!

Now -- I agree with you -- I had to walk back into my father's life just before he died, in spite of serious hurt and being shut out by him. Why?

*Because he was my father and the Word of God commands me to honor him.*

Just as saved wives with unsaved husbands are to submit, like it or not, as long as it doesn't cause them to sin -- children are to honor their parents, like them or not.

I would guess that a lot of his problems are a lack of social skills and relationship skills -- probably contributed to the failure of his marriage and his lack of contact throughout your life. These things are learned early in life and never really change unless the person recognizes their flaw and works hard to correct it....and, of course, allows God to help them.

I'm not advising you what you should do, only speculating on what I might do in your situation. Since your contact with him was so limited during your formative years and your relation some what unfamiliar, I would jsut have a good long sit-down with him. I know that I would be very emotionally vulnerable, so I'd probably make notes on specific things I needed to get said AND I'd have someone supportive included in case I broke down. (My husband is very diplomatic and always served me well in this way.)

Then I would tell him how I felt. A few times we had to borrow money -- my mother wasn't happy until I groveled and begged and then she never let me forget what she'd done YEARS after it had been repaid. That hurt, and I wish I could go back and tell her AT THE TIME how badly it hurt.

I'd tell him how much I want to see him in church, how you want him to be different with his grandchildren than he was with ya'll, etc. I think if you keep to your notes and choose your words carefully you can convey these thoughts without causing harm or hurting his feelings.

Now -- THIS IS A WORD OF ADVICE!! :beammeup:

IF you decide to do this, rehearse it. Several times if need be. Make very sure that it doesn't turn into a blaming game. That is very easily done when emotions are involved.

Turn every point back on yourself. Instead of "You shouldn't have..." or "You never did...." which puts people on the defensive and they aren't hearing you because they are formulating their defense in their head.

Make it "When you did _____ , I felt ______ ."

Or "When you said _____ , I heard _______ ."

A lot of time we never have a clue how something we said or did impacted someone because we weren't inside their head at that moment.

This type of communication has helped our marriage. My husband's upbringing was very different from mine and he isn't still scarred from it today. He can make innocent remarks that would mean nothing to him, but they are filtered thru all my "baggage" and feel hurtful to me. I do the "When you said _____ , I heard _______ ." with him ALL the time. It helps me to find out what he REALLY meant, which is never as bad as I imagined. And it helps him know to choose his words a little more carefully.

Anyhow -- that's my helpful hint for today. I'll be praying for you, April.

P.S. I forgot to add in that writing a letter is always an option, as well. But, your skill a communicating your feelings as well as the persons ability to read and accurately assess what is being said has to be taken into consideration.

There are people I could have written a letter to, but it wouldn't have worked on my Dad. And I've even helped edit letters....one lady I worked with on my last job was estranged from her father and he was dying. She wanted to let him know how badly he'd hurt her before he was gone. She showed me the letter she had written every sentence was "You never..." and "You always..."

She gave me permission to write an alternative letter. I just merely took every thing she said and changed it to "When you did this, I felt thus." She broke down and cried when she read it. She said, "What I wrote was all angry and would have only made him mad back. This is how I really feel."

Unfortunately, I don't know the results of that letter...my job there ended and I didn't see her again. But whether it helped her make peace with her father or not, it helped her recognize how to communicate with him not only on paper but in person.
GOOD POST!
I used to read up on lots of self help psychology centered material in my life. I had thought in high school that is what I wanted to be (psychologist)..but I instead turned into needing one, lol!
ANYWAY, Ive read about using that very method, and yet forget to use it!
It is quite helpful though, and PRACTICE is very important.

[Naomi]

I have a different take on this. The Bible says to give honour to whom honour is due. If you have a parent that's a no-good, I don't think honour is due. My Mother is definitely a no-good, and has always been. There's no way in this world I could ever honour her. She has caused major destruction in the lives of her children. She has never apologized to any of us. If she did, I may see her in a different light, but I don't think she ever will. Parents like that don't see any wrong doings in their deeds. I know some of you here will say, well, you have to forgive them. Well, listen to what Jesus said concerning forgivness to those who have wronged you. Luke 17:1-4 It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; AND IF HE REPENT, FORGIVE HIM. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying I REPENT; THOU SHALT FORGIVE HIM. I know I'll get slammed for my thinking, but that's what Jesus said. I do agree we need to overcome bitterness towards people who have wronged us. I don't agree that God expects more from us than He does for Himself. If you are unrepentant to God, He will not forgive you. April has tried to give her Father a chance to repent to her, but he keeps following the same pattern. I've NEVER seen people like this change. I know plenty of them. April, you need to follow your heart in this situation. If you've done all you can do, you will not be held responsible for his salvation. He knows what he needs to do.

[Apostolic Kitty]

I don't see anywhere in the bible where it says that you are exempt from honoring your mother or father if they are not good parents.

That scripture in Luke that you quited speaks of 'brother' -- not mother or father. Besides, we are commanded to forgive -- period -- not just if the person who offended us repents. To say that that scripture says you only have to forgive when that person repents is twisting scripture. And, even if it wasn't, why would anyone want to be bound by unforgiveness anyway? Ick.

[Naomi]

I didn't twist scripture in any way. It's straight out of the book.

[LilOrphanAnnie]

That's all good advice. My father & his family were never around for me, I mean at all ever, and here are a few things I learned from it. These things may or not apply to you.
---------------------------------
If someone won't work at having a relationship with you, don't force it. Let it go. Change your expectations of what the relationship "should" be, and just let them go.

If someone is around, but very dysfunctional, you have to decide at what point they are still allowed to be around you and your family. There are times when it is necessary to get them out of your life, because they are too damaging. It is o.k. to get rid of people like that, even if they are your parents or siblings or whomever. However this is a very last resort.
You can forgive as an act of will, and keep praying about it, and eventually you will have the nice fuzzy feelings that accompany it. However even after that, sometimes little thoughts like ("that $%&&^$ !!") will come up. It's o.k. to acknowledge the pain behind it, say "Well, yes, he WAS a jerk- but I forgive him." Even if you don't feel like it, do it as an act of will. Then DROP that thought, rebuke it if you have to, and go on to something else. There is a part inside that was hurt & is saying Hey!!!! and it needs to be heard & comforted, but not to let it wallow in hurt & bitterness. Keep praying about it & do nice things for yourself to comfort yourself that day, but don't wallow in it. Eventually it will get better.

[NanaRenan]

I have a different take on this. The Bible says to give honour to whom honour is due. If you have a parent that's a no-good, I don't think honour is due.

But which one is a one of the ten commandments....?


My Mother is definitely a no-good, and has always been. There's no way in this world I could ever honour her. She has caused major destruction in the lives of her children. She has never apologized to any of us. If she did, I may see her in a different light, but I don't think she ever will. Parents like that don't see any wrong doings in their deeds. I know some of you here will say, well, you have to forgive them. Well, listen to what Jesus said concerning forgivness to those who have wronged you. Luke 17:1-4 It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; AND IF HE REPENT, FORGIVE HIM. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying I REPENT; THOU SHALT FORGIVE HIM. I know I'll get slammed for my thinking, but that's what Jesus said. I do agree we need to overcome bitterness towards people who have wronged us. I don't agree that God expects more from us than He does for Himself. If you are unrepentant to God, He will not forgive you. April has tried to give her Father a chance to repent to her, but he keeps following the same pattern. I've NEVER seen people like this change. I know plenty of them. April, you need to follow your heart in this situation. If you've done all you can do, you will not be held responsible for his salvation. He knows what he needs to do.
Sister Naomi -- I completely understand how you feel. My mother -- while filled with the Holy Ghost all her life -- did some things to my sister and I that I could NOT see as Christian.

At one point the devil even had me convinced that if there were going to be people like my mother in Heaven I didn't want to go there!

I spent over 30 years of my life waiting for some lightening bolt from Heaven to conk her on the head and she would suddenly realize "You ARE a good daughter and I love you!"

It never happened....and then Alzheimer's robbed her of her mind. As it peeled away the layers of her personality the first to come off was the hard, stern outer shell of protection she had built around herself. The nicest I'd ever known her in the 38 years of my life she was on this planet was when she no longer knew who anyone was except my dad.

I saw glimpses and understood things. When she got to the stage were she couldn't make coherent sentences to tell you if she was hungry or need the bathroom, if you put old hymns on the CD player she sang every verse without missing a word. If you prayed with her -- her prayers were long and loud and powerfully moving often ending up with her and the ones praying with her speaking in tongues.

That told me that no matter what had gone on before -- loving God was such a core part of who she was that I was in no place to judge her for what she had done to me....He is the only one who can do that.

Thru talking with relatives and friends before she died and at her funeral I was able to piece together some of what made her withdraw into herself and put up that cold hearted front that hurt everyone else so much - and I came to believe she never comprehended the pain she had caused.

At the treatment I had received, if it were not for my husband and children, I would have never looked back when I left home at 16. She would have died without me ever knowing anything of her than my mistreatment at her hands. And I would have carried bitterness in my heart all of my days.

But because -- as an example to my children -- I MADE myself go back down there and "honor" her, God released that in me and allowed me to heal.

I don't believe "honoring" is the same as inviting more mistreatment. We have to protect ourselves and our families -- boundaries must be established. But there needs to be a deep enough communication to establish whether or not it is desirous to proceed. And, I suggest attempting to find the root of the problem -- what wrongs occurred in their life to bring about their actions.

[tufluv]

what wrongs occurred in their life to bring about their actions.
Best piece of advice in all your advice!

I've always done this..or tried to. I've been the type that researches, tries to analyze people, what makes 'em tick..etc.
As a teen in high school, I figured thats what I wanted to do, be in the psychiatric or psychological field..but then it never transpired.

YET, before coming to this relationship with Jesus, I tried on my own to figure myself and others out., and it does help to a certain extent.

Understanding bringeth compassion.
Compassion bringeth forgiveness. (in most cases), and its true that if someone is bringing more harm than good..despite the understanding..its best to disassociate from that person or persons, and just pray for them.

Just because we can forgive someone, pray for them...does not mean we must stay around them if they don't repent and persist in harmful actions.

[Apostolic Kitty]

My dad isn't really all that great. He's done many things to hurt us, including committing adultery (my mom was his first wife) and destroying our family. He was often not there for me.

It was very difficult for me to listen to him crying over the break up of his adulterous relationship (after his second divorce) some years back. He was so depressed and, because I love him, I felt for him and comforted him the best I could, yet there was a part of me that kept thinking that he was reaping what he had sown. He kept asking me to pray she would come back to him. Of course I didn't. I already knew it wasn't God's will. I only prayed that God's will be done in his life.

Even as an adult he still isn't there for me...or his only grandchild, my son, who wouldn't know him if he saw him on the street...and it would have been so easy over the years for him to just add my son to his roster every other weekend during his visitation with his other four children who are close in age to my son.

Yes, he's very difficult to honor -- especially since he is mostly absent. However, I do my best by calling him every so often.

Other than that, and being there should he need me, I have no clue how I would.

[Apostolic Kitty]

I've always done this..or tried to. I've been the type that researches, tries to analyze people, what makes 'em tick..etc.
As a teen in high school, I figured thats what I wanted to do, be in the psychiatric or psychological field..but then it never transpired.
LOL

Me too....

Understanding bringeth compassion.
Compassion bringeth forgiveness. (in most cases), and its true that if someone is bringing more harm than good..despite the understanding..its best to disassociate from that person or persons, and just pray for them.

Just because we can forgive someone, pray for them...does not mean we must stay around them if they don't repent and persist in harmful actions.
Amen.

[pentecostal mom]

Sister Pam that was so moving. I am sorry for all that you suffered but I am glad that God gave you the grace and power to understand. Iam in awe! We serve such a good God.

[Naomi]

NanaRenan, You said "What wrongs occured in their life to bring about their actions." To me, that is just an EXCUSE for people to justify their wrongdoings. With the wrongs done to me as a child, I should be out committing murders, robberies, etc. BUT, I CHOOSE to do otherwise. We all make consciense decisions to do right or wrong. We know when we are hurting someone. My Mother knows to this day she is still hurting me, but she won't stop. People who choose these actions are selfish, self absorbed. I could choose to use the EXCUSE that because I was treated wrongly, I can do the same to my sons. I know that would be wrong, just the same way that everyone else that does it knows it's wrong.

[Apostolic Kitty]

NanaRenan, You said "What wrongs occured in their life to bring about their actions." To me, that is just an EXCUSE for people to justify their wrongdoings. That's not "just an excuse". It explains a lot! And, if that person also understands where they came from, it can help them deal with the issues and move on.

[Naomi]

Not knowing where we came from still doesn't negate the fact that we KNOW when we are hurting someone.

[NanaRenan]

Not knowing where we came from still doesn't negate the fact that we KNOW when we are hurting someone.
Often, but not always.

And be sure that I'm not advocating when people excuse away their behavior because bad things happened.

Explanations are not "excuses". Understand someone else's behavior HELPS me, but it doesn't excuse them. This is particularly important in close familial relationships.

I'll use my mother for instance -- cause she's the "instance" I know best.

She was distant to the point of being cruel, in the opinion of many. I NEVER -- in my memory -- EVER heard my mother say the words, "I love you." She would give me a fake hug before boarding the youth camp bus -- because all the other mothers were crying and hugging their "babies" who were gonna be gone a week. If I said, "Mama, do you think I'm pretty?" as little children will do, she'd snap "Pretty is as pretty does and you've never done anything I ever thought was pretty".

She was highly critical and told my sister and I on a daily basis "You'll never be worth the salt that goes in your bread." And I won't even go into the physical punishments!!!!! I'll just quote my therapist who once said, "I don't know why you haven't climbed a clock tower with a high-powered rifle by now."

Anyways --

When Mama's mind started to slip a little, I sought to get genealogical information from her before she was gone. When I brought up the subject of a younger sister who I'd never known the levee broke and a flood of information came out.

My grandparents had been stern and distant in that Victorian way -- they had raised five children this way.They were 7 and up when this last baby girl was born. Being kids, they loved her, played with her constantly and adored her. My mother believed those actions brought about her death. I plan to write a book on Mildred some day....it's an amazing story. The thumbnail version is when this beloved baby sister died someone either TOLD my mother or she concluded it in her own childlike mind that God had "taken her away because we just loved her too much."

Suddenly, it all made sense. She had kept us at arm's length, never "spoiling" us by physical affection, words of love or praise in order to PROTECT us.

She truly didn't realize what she was doing was wrong. I know its sounds ludicrous.

And just so you don't think my mother was some ignorant country bumpkin -- she graduated from high school valedictorian at age 16 and went to college on full scholarship although she did not finish.

[Naomi]

If she truly didn't realize what she was doing was wrong, that's a different story. And I would never consider that you came from a country bumpkin. You are very wise.

[NanaRenan]

NanaRenan, You said "What wrongs occured in their life to bring about their actions." To me, that is just an EXCUSE for people to justify their wrongdoings.

Some people do use the events of their life as an excuse to do wrong...and I agree, that is wrong. That's not what I'm talking about.

With the wrongs done to me as a child, I should be out committing murders, robberies, etc. BUT, I CHOOSE to do otherwise. We all make consciense decisions to do right or wrong.

I choose -- by the grace of God -- to not repeat what was done to me either, or to go out and do wrong. But it's impossible to imply that what I suffered didn't impact who I am today. Because of God's hand on my life and a lot of prayers -- I've been able to do good and not wrong.

But you can take any ONE of the blessings of guidance in my life away and I might've made a poor choice and the outcome been totally different. I might've given full reign to the memories of what I had suffered and visited them in full on my children.

We know when we are hurting someone. My Mother knows to this day she is still hurting me, but she won't stop. People who choose these actions are selfish, self absorbed.

Or still hurting themselves.

I could choose to use the EXCUSE that because I was treated wrongly, I can do the same to my sons. I know that would be wrong, just the same way that everyone else that does it knows it's wrong.
There are those who know it's wrong and do it anyhow and there are those who really don't know they are doing something wrong.

Satan can only decieve us into sin by convincing us it's not wrong and/or that we won't be punished for it. Have you ever fallen for a lie of the devil?

[NanaRenan]

If she truly didn't realize what she was doing was wrong, that's a different story. And I would never consider that you came from a country bumpkin. You are very wise.
Thank you, that's very kind of you.

[havefaithinGod]

That must have been a horrible way to grow up. In weird way, it is almost *though not conceivable* understandable from your mothers point of view. Especially to be made to feel like that about the death of your own sibling.

I try to come up with an explaination in my mind why my dad could be this way. He is not lacking in telling us that he loves us. The part he lacks in is showing it. I cant think of anything that couldve made him like this. His parents were very affectionate people. He was the baby of the family and all siblings baby him.. still! I think its just that he was never made to grow up. Its sad that a 48 yr old man still hasnt. He got married to my mother very young. 18 years old. I hate to say this but had my sister not been on the way, I really dont think they would have gotten married. He joined the navy right before my sister was born and spent the next few years being a dad only on leave. How convenient. Maybe had he stayed around and NOT joined the navy he would have been a better father.
You see how easy it is to say those things.. Maybe if ____ had not happened, things would be different. Maybe if I had _____, things would be different. One thing I will never say is that my mother should have done things differently.... Since I can fuss about the things he does not do, I will give honor where honor is due and tell you, God gave me the best, most caring, loving mother of the lot.

April

[Apostolic Kitty]

Not knowing where we came from still doesn't negate the fact that we KNOW when we are hurting someone.
I don't believe any said it did.

[Apostolic Kitty]

My grandparents had been stern and distant in that Victorian way -- they had raised five children this way.They were 7 and up when this last baby girl was born. Being kids, they loved her, played with her constantly and adored her. My mother believed those actions brought about her death. I plan to write a book on Mildred some day....it's an amazing story. The thumbnail version is when this beloved baby sister died someone either TOLD my mother or she concluded it in her own childlike mind that God had "taken her away because we just loved her too much."
How incredibly sad! :cry:

[Apostolic Kitty]

April, though your picture is dark, I can tell you are very pretty...and you remind me of my friend's daughter. Do you have freckles in those shadows?

[ddc101]

Sister Rena,
I can attest to what you wrote about your mom and alzeheimers.It transformed my mom.She only knew dad and me.Anyone else who came over she would look straight at them and say....Is that you Dana? lv sis.c

[havefaithinGod]

lol.. yes i do have freckles. My daughter has them too. She says Jesus gave them to her and her mommy. and she doesnt want her new brother to have them because Jesus just gives them to girls.
I know the photo is dark.. but its the only one i really have and I dont know about the rest of you, but I like to know who I'm talking to. Thought it might help to 'know me'.


April

[Apostolic Kitty]

lol.. yes i do have freckles. My daughter has them too. She says Jesus gave them to her and her mommy. and she doesnt want her new brother to have them because Jesus just gives them to girls.
I know the photo is dark.. but its the only one i really have and I dont know about the rest of you, but I like to know who I'm talking to. Thought it might help to 'know me'.
LOL

My friend's daughter also has freckles...lots of them.

Just don't tell your daughter that my husband has freckles, too...

[NanaRenan]

I had an exchange in PM today from someone who said the posts on this topic made her realize she had been harboring bitterness towards the parent who hurt her. I sympathized with her because of where I've been.....and I shared the following with her.....(we both agreed this was important enough to share here -- hope it touches someone.)


Last year my pastor preached a wonderful Bible Study on why God chose a DOVE as the symbol for the Holy Spirit -- instead of a hawk or an eagle or a sparrow.

He went thru the characteristics of a dove and related them to scriptures that describe the Holy Spirit.

For instance: Doves are monogamous -- the Holy Spirit is faithful and will never leave you.

The BIG ONE that about knocked me over was --

Doves have no gall bladder, so there is no bile in a dove. (Ever thrown up bile...?) :( The Holy Spirit can not dwell where bitterness is.

WHOA!!!!

That lesson came right before my dad got sick and died and because of some things that happened with him at the end of his life, my sister was completely out of his life and I only spoke to him when he initiated it.

I had to make a decision to go to him, as an example to my children of doing the right thing. But hours and hours on the road gave me plenty of opportunity to think on the dove and the bitterness.

Bitterness is very insidious and you can be operating in the spirit unaware that it's lurking. That's why I'm all about working thru things to try to cut it out before it spreads like a cancer.

[tufluv]

I had an exchange in PM today from someone who said the posts on this topic made her realize she had been harboring bitterness towards the parent who hurt her. I sympathized with her because of where I've been.....and I shared the following with her.....(we both agreed this was important enough to share here -- hope it touches someone.)


Last year my pastor preached a wonderful Bible Study on why God chose a DOVE as the symbol for the Holy Spirit -- instead of a hawk or an eagle or a sparrow.

He went thru the characteristics of a dove and related them to scriptures that describe the Holy Spirit.

For instance: Doves are monogamous -- the Holy Spirit is faithful and will never leave you.

The BIG ONE that about knocked me over was --

Doves have no gall bladder, so there is no bile in a dove. (Ever thrown up bile...?) :( The Holy Spirit can not dwell where bitterness is.

WHOA!!!!

That lesson came right before my dad got sick and died and because of some things that happened with him at the end of his life, my sister was completely out of his life and I only spoke to him when he initiated it.

I had to make a decision to go to him, as an example to my children of doing the right thing. But hours and hours on the road gave me plenty of opportunity to think on the dove and the bitterness.

Bitterness is very insidious and you can be operating in the spirit unaware that it's lurking. That's why I'm all about working thru things to try to cut it out before it spreads like a cancer.


Excellent post and thoughts Sister!

Yes that same bitterness does lurk, I've known it in me..over my parents treatment of me..their favoritism towards my sister whom is now deceased..has affected my other siblings as well. Its terribly sad..and even incomprehensible to ME..how a parent can do this. I love all my 3 sons equally. :grumble: I can never understand how they can be that way, for it [favoritism] still carries forward in my sisters children, and their children, perhaps even more so due to her death. :shrug: My children have never known or had, the type relationship of love that can come from real grandparents.

We ALL have our family experiences to show where some root of bitterness takes hold, and attempts to choke us to death! :eek:
Myself, I chose the alcohol way to deal with it all, and nearly died from it. :cry: Emotions sure can be hurt., consequences/manifestations are far reaching, and hard to get rid of.

No, bitterness must be dealt with RIGHT AWAY, and only by giving it to GOD..for HE alone can help with that. Bitterness, anymosity, etc., are all meant to be deadly, either physically, but most of all, spiritually.

[Apostolic Kitty]

That lesson came right before my dad got sick and died and because of some things that happened with him at the end of his life, my sister was completely out of his life and I only spoke to him when he initiated it.

I had to make a decision to go to him, as an example to my children of doing the right thing.
Thank you for confirming to me that calling my dad every so often is the right thing to do even though he never reciprocates or bothers with his only grandchild, my son. It would be so easy. However, when I consider that my DH doesn't really even know his dad and has only talked to him once in his life I feel I should at least keep some contact with mine. There are many times I have thrown up my hands and said "forget it" about even bothering with my dad, but I just can't bring myself to follow through with inaction.

[Hornet]

Hello. This has been a very interesting thread. None of us are without our heartaches in this life. That's part of life. It makes us or breaks us! How we deal with/handle the "results" of our personal "heartaches". I must agree with the post that made mention of how important it is to recognize what hurts/heartaches happened in the life of your dad, April, or the cause of each of our heartaches, to cause him /them to react or behave in the manner they have done. Sometimes there are pains in someones life that NOONE except God Himself even realize. You may think he's the baby of the family and spoiled rotten, BUT, somewhere in his life, he was hurt either physically, emotionally or spiritually. That could have come from being too pampered or protected, disallowing him to grow up and take responsibilites for his actions as a child/adolescent/adult. It's so important how we raise our children. None of us are perfect and we all do things that "we" think is "right/good" for others, not being inside them to see how "they" react to the things we've done/said. Sometimes we hear of it years later and have no clue what they're even talking about because our intent was so different from their receiving.

[someonehere]

well.. i'm new here, but couldn't help but reply to this post.. not sure how much it will help, but I will say that before I got in church I had a lot of bitterness towards my mother, and hurt and even hate.. and we hardly talked at all.. but after I got in church.. i prayed and prayed so hard for God to fix our relationship... but in His answering me.. He changed ME.. and how I viewed the whole situation.. we are close as can be now, and she is still the same, and she isn't even in church.. but the Lord changed me by showing me how to love her for who she is, and not who i feel like she should be.. I wish I could explain it better.. and I still look at people whose parents are in church, and there for them all the time and help them, and still want those things.. but the fact is.. i don't have that.. but I do have a mother.. and I love her for what she is, and don't compare her to what I think she should be.. and when I started doing that.. I let go of so much resentment and bitterness.. and now I can be close to her and love her for what she is and just accept that.. I don't know if this is any help in your situation.. but it really has helped me..
Hugs~
Julie

[tufluv]

well.. i'm new here, but couldn't help but reply to this post.. not sure how much it will help, but I will say that before I got in church I had a lot of bitterness towards my mother, and hurt and even hate.. and we hardly talked at all.. but after I got in church.. i prayed and prayed so hard for God to fix our relationship... but in His answering me.. He changed ME.. and how I viewed the whole situation.. we are close as can be now, and she is still the same, and she isn't even in church.. but the Lord changed me by showing me how to love her for who she is, and not who i feel like she should be.. I wish I could explain it better.. and I still look at people whose parents are in church, and there for them all the time and help them, and still want those things.. but the fact is.. i don't have that.. but I do have a mother.. and I love her for what she is, and don't compare her to what I think she should be.. and when I started doing that.. I let go of so much resentment and bitterness.. and now I can be close to her and love her for what she is and just accept that.. I don't know if this is any help in your situation.. but it really has helped me..
Hugs~
Julie
Your post says a lot of what I also have come to see since coming into the TRUTH about 6 yrs ago..I have certainly grown spiritually, and have lots more to go.
Praise GOD that HE has never given up on me..and that HE has a sense of humor with me, lol! (I think)
If we would love all those the way HE loves us..this world would be so much nicer. ;)
HE is perfect, I am not..that makes it challenging. :D
..and tuf at times. :spin:

[John Atkinson]

Hi there and welcome to the GNC, Tufluv mis-quoted me on the advice bit, I was saying that I don't wan't people giving PASTORAL advice.

Reading all I have a really good book to recommend to you that actually covers exactly what you are going through. It is called Sons of Oil and was written by Bro Dave Huston, who is a member here.

I wrote a review of it a couple of months ago at http://www.christianquill.com/review.archive/sons.of.oil.02.04.htm

There is a link to purchase a copy at the bottom of the review.

[NanaRenan]

I have a really good book to recommend to you that actually covers exactly what you are going through. It is called Sons of Oil and was written by Bro Dave Huston, who is a member here.

I wrote a review of it a couple of months ago at http://www.christianquill.com/review.archive/sons.of.oil.02.04.htm

There is a link to purchase a copy at the bottom of the review.
Thanks Bro. A --- Looks like a good one. I look forward to reading it and think it might help my sister, too.

[tufluv]

Tufluv mis-quoted me on the advice bit, I was saying that I don't wan't people giving PASTORAL advice.
Uu-uuh-mm...if I did so, my apologies.

But that is the impression I got., since there are many topics that are being brought up lately that are of delicate, sensitive nature(s).
Of personal significance to the poster(s).

And reality is that many pastors either don't care to hear this kinda stuff, or are reluctant to advise..and/or some posters do not even have a pastor.
Some posters are reluctant to have a pastor know certain things as well.
Possibilities are endless.

[someonehere]

well i think people should go to their pastors.. but.. i myself am guilty of not.. in fact i've NEVER went to any of my pastors in 9 years.. i felt like they are too busy, and didn't want to bother them, or felt like i should just go ot the Lord in prayer, and shouldn't call on them.. now the church i'm in.. i haven't allowed myself to get close to anyone.. especially the pastor.. so really its my own fault.. and there are alot of times i wish i could go to someone for advice.. i guess the older i get the more i realize i need some Godly wisdom from an elder whose been there and done that.. not sure.. and here I am jabbering on.. i don't even know what the point of this was. I guess just to say.. Dont be like me and not go to your pastor? thats part of their job, and a way God gave us to help us with things..

[havefaithinGod]

well i think people should go to their pastors.. but.. i myself am guilty of not.. in fact i've NEVER went to any of my pastors in 9 years.. i felt like they are too busy, and didn't want to bother them, or felt like i should just go ot the Lord in prayer, and shouldn't call on them.. now the church i'm in.. i haven't allowed myself to get close to anyone.. especially the pastor.. so really its my own fault.. and there are alot of times i wish i could go to someone for advice.. i guess the older i get the more i realize i need some Godly wisdom from an elder whose been there and done that.. not sure.. and here I am jabbering on.. i don't even know what the point of this was. I guess just to say.. Dont be like me and not go to your pastor? thats part of their job, and a way God gave us to help us with things..I agree with you. Part of the pastors job is to council saints. But have you noticed the number of people racing to get to him after service?? I am the same way about not wanting to bother my pastor. Our pastor grew up with most of the people in the church (as he was the former pastors son), so there is a pretty open line of communication there. My husband considers him (as we all should) a friend , when he is not behind the pulpit. He knows that he can talk to him about anything. I have counciled with my pastors wife a time or two. I am not one to bombard them with every little trouble tho. I can see how busy they are.
What I mean is, go to him for problems. But be selective. Trying going to God first. Of course that is just my opinion. All of you can keep doing what youre doing if it works for you.:)

Sister, I was the very same way about not letting myself get close to anyone. Our church runs approximately 120 people and I was used to a small church of 20-25. I didnt know many people although I had visited that church all of my life. My husband worked 3 rd shift and wasnt able to go to church often. I refused to go alone because I didnt know anyone. Now that we have made up our mind that we are going no matter what, I have opened up and pretty much know everyone. There isn't anyone that I cant sit down and have a conversation with. (although, as anywhere, some are more fun to talk to than others.. .lol) Open up to them. Get close. You will be surprised at what you are missing. It helps alot in your worship also.

I really enjoy reading your posts by the way

April

[someonehere]

thanks for the advise april.. and i know you are totally right.. its kind of hard getting out of a rut once you have been in it a while.. we went to our first church for 3-4 years.. it ran about 150.. then went to a church that was about 30 - 50.. very close knit bunch of wonderful people at both churches.. then moved out of state, and have gone to this one 3 years, its like 350 people, and we sit in the back balcony seat.. we have befriended a few people, but we talk mostly online to them, and not after or during church etc.. its sad to say, but i've only prayed at the alter at this church one time in 3 years, and that was when my 5 year old asked to go pray at the alter. Its my own fault, but now that i'm in this rut i'm having a hard time getting out.. and.. at the first two churches we went to, i worshiped so much more.. so i agree about what you said with fellow ship helping worship.. somehow i just can't let go around anyone at this church like i could the other ones.. we kind of stepped out of God's will by moving here to begin with, so i feel like i'm wandering around in the wilderness at this point.. the church we attend is a wonderful church with wonderful men of God as pastors.. a father and son.. but we know we aren't where we belong, and within the next couple years lord willing, we feel like we're being led back to the first church we attended. It has a different pastor now, but we like to think of it like we're going "back to bethel" for that refreshing and reminder.. We know God has so much more for us than what we have right now.. just please pray for us if you would.. I want to get back in His will, and follow the leading of the Lord.. Sorry this is so long, i've jabbered on again.. I just told you here more than i've told anyone at my church.. lol.. God bless..