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Bro.Steingass
04-21-2003, 10:16 AM
Sometimes labeled "Oprah Christians"
after Oprah Winfrey, an immensely popular TV talk show host.

I don't know exactly what Oprah believes in, and I didn't invent this name, but I don't have any other way to describe this belief.

I had a boss, a self-proclaimed Liberal, and I got to know him over a few years, I saw his actions and beliefs, and realized he didn't have a clue.

He took a stand, a while back during a company-wide United way fundraiser, and refused to support the United way under his disagreement with them over their support for the Boy Scouts of America refusing to allow Gay Scout leaders. Obviously drawing critisizm to himself in our Conservative area of the Country.

At the same time he bragged about his involvement in a local church men's group, which struck me as odd, I assumed him to be non-church going, as most denominational churches teach against homosexuality, afer all, it's the Word of God, but so is Acts 2:38, and we know how seriously that is taken.

However, I paid little attention to him (he's the flightly type, you know, walks the halls, stops and talks to everyone, then forgets what he was doing)

Oh, he rambled on and on, echoing the National Democratic party's policies, but I didn't mind him much.

Until one day, he came into my office for something, behind me on a cupboard hung a picture of Saddam Hussein and Yasser Arafat, between the teo of them read the following:

"America, how can we concentrate on pushing the Jews into the sea while you wage your racist war against us"

Wait until you get the satire before reading any further. (hint: The PLO's mission is to push the Jews into the sea, and claim Israel as palestine, and protestors call the US racists against the Arab people, see the double standard?)

Anyways, It's a political poster, he came into my office and began to laugh at it, admitting that it was a valid point. He, being outspoken against racism, I thought we struck a mutual chord.

However, (getting to my point)

He began to mention the Bible, and I thought "Ok God, you've opened a door, give me the words I need"

Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

So, I mentioned that God's promise was to the Children of Israel Forever

Num 18:19 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute forever: it is a covenant of salt forever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee.

Then he hit me:

he said that the Hebrew people have done far worse throughout history than the Arabs ever have, as far as Human Rights violations. In response to my mentioning that God's promise is still with Israel, he said that The Hebrew People invented their closeness and heritage with God, they wrote the Old Testament as a conspiracy the show their divinity.

Then he said that any Promise God had with them is cancelled because they rejected Jesus Christ. Jesus message was of Peace and tolerance. Jesus rejected the Jews, and Jesus would never condemn anyone. Everyone goes to Heaven, he believes.

I sat, shocked and awed. This is why he calls himself Christian, and supports Homosexuality....he belives that the Old Testament is made up!!!

I was amazed, and still do not understand. I know with say, a Buddhist, they do not belive in one, all powerful God, so assuming that they know Genesis 1:1 is never done.

However, a self-proclaimed Christian??? I told him I didn't know what to say, I belive that the Bible is the infalable Word of God, and he didn't, so I couldn't continue the conversation. He twists Christianity to conform around his Liberal beliefs of free Sex, drugs, and rock and roll, not ofending anyone. But his wife, in charge of a local charity used book sale, made a stink in refusing to sell any books that were sexually explicit i.e. harlequin romance novels.

I say, you're free to believe how you wish in the USA, however, It irritates me when someone is not consitent with their beliefs, speaking ignorantly, just rebelling against the establishment for the sake of Anarchy. That's Anarchism, and NOT accepted By God.

How does one even begin to witness to a person such as this, who doesn't eve really know whay they stand for something?

If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. BTW, this man is well educated, in his late 50's, and you would think knows better.

ddc101
04-21-2003, 10:21 AM
Bro.Steinglass,
Did this man have the Holy Ghost? If not that is the answer to your question.He's carnally minded.Just attending church does not make someone a christian.Probably the main thing you could do if the wall put up is not so thick that its unpenetratable is to find common ground and then witness about the basic plan of salvation.We have to overlook a lot of things in order to win some.After he gets the Holy Ghost then God can deal with him on other views.lv sis.c

Bro.Steingass
04-21-2003, 11:01 AM
Sis,

Understandable about having the Holy Ghost, however you don't understand, if he's taught anything other than what he already believes, he shuns it, puts up a bull-headed attitude, like "I don't want to learn".

During the war, every TV in the building was on the news, because he didn't agree with it, he went around turning the TV stations, which of course, 125 people then turned them back. When people confronted him in his views, and challenged his logic with facts, and said "turning the channel won't change the reality of it, he simply stated "I don't care, I don't want to like it" and stormed off.

See, my life has already convicted him, and the truth stares him in the face. I don't have any common ground to start from.

It's all so simple for anyone to say "teach them acts 2:38" however, how will one believe and obey acts 2:38 when they don't believe Genesis 1:1??

OK, let's suppose he doesn't belive in the OT, fine, the 1st chapter of Matthew chroncles the Bloodline from Adam to David, from David, to Mary, to Jesus

Assuming he belives Jesus is the MEssiah, the 1st Chapter of Matthew then establishes Jesus' Adamic, Abrahamic, and Davidic lineage. That';s Jewish Lineage, and according to his belief, it's all a farce. See, no consistency in belief, therefore no common ground. Of course I could prove to him through the scriptures, but if he does the TV thing with me, there's no hope of witnessing once he tunes me out.

O2blikehim
04-21-2003, 12:30 PM
Bro. Steingass, Obviuosly the man has problems and needs a closer relationship with God. You may not be able to help him at all at this time.

I did wish to comment on the one point you wrote about.

"Then he said that any Promise God had with them is cancelled because they rejected Jesus Christ."

While I would not say the promise is canceled, it most certainly is fulfilled in Jesus, and in Him alone. If one rejects Jesus Christ he is indeed rejecting the "promise". This is not only true of the Jews in particular but those in every nation today.

I have found it most helpful to agree with those you witness to whenever possible. The common ground may open other avenues of discussion.

In Christ, Stephen

Bro.Steingass
04-21-2003, 12:46 PM
Right!

If I just went around saying "obey or burn in hell!!" I think whatever avenues that were possibilities would be closed quickly.

And your point about promises fulfilled in Christ, I agree, but I believe in the beautiful Harmony of the Bible, I also belive that after the day of the Gentiles is fulfilled, he will return for his first Love, however, I don't care to discuss the pre-mid-post thing again, so we'll all just agree to disagree there.

I told this guy that even if he didn't believe in the Old Testament, that Ezekiel and John both prophesied the same prophecy of Gog and MaGog ----regardless of interpretation, the text is the same.

How can he argue that, unless he thinks the Apostles were lying Jews too???

Regardless, Anti-semitism is Not of God, and I refuse to be caught up in it. (not implying any one here is)

committed
04-21-2003, 01:08 PM
Bro. Steingass,
I agree with you. I am working with a new ager at my job.....whew are their beliefs messed up. She knows basically where I stand.....and I haven't got her over yet, but with lots of prayer things can change. We had a special service about 3 Sundays ago, called friends day and she actually came....and enjoyed it. So all hope is not lost. What I would do, is just be his friend....many times we have to wait until the chips are down, before they look our way...it has taken me 5 years to get this far with my new age friend. One thing I have learned in these years is that until they actually come to God in truth, we have no clue of what they are thinking or praying. And remember His word will never come back void!
God bless you in your burden!

witness4jesus
04-21-2003, 02:12 PM
Brother Steingass, I dont believe in anti-semitism; God's promise is to all nations.

But I am curious about your idea that God's promise is still to Israel. Israel the nation, was made desolate because of her rejection of Christ. The promise is now to the church, and whosoever will enter her gates. There is no more Jew, nor Greek, for we are all made one people in Him. That is the reconciliation.

sis pam

Hnovilla
04-21-2003, 03:01 PM
His Name is Jesus!

Amen, Sister W4J!
Church, when the Apostole Paul arrived in Ephesus, he found certain believers. As he spoke with them, he found them lacking. He then asked them whether they had the Holy Spirit; then in which how they were baptized. Afterward, he proceeded to preach the Gospel to them.
When we encounter a non-believer/unconverted, we could employ the same tactic. Never should we discuss the scriptures at their level of understanding, for it will only lead to more confusion or resistance on their part. We need to bring them to the level of basic salvational understanding. These type of people do not need the baptism of the Holy Spirit, they need the Gospel!
Those who KNOW the Gospel will preach the Gospel.

Brother Villa

ddc101
04-21-2003, 06:29 PM
The easiest way to get to this man due to his pride it to try to befriend him.lv sis.c

iasparrow
04-22-2003, 12:24 AM
Dear Brother,

I understand your frustration with your coworker, I have run into many people like this in my walk with the Lord as well. It is sad and unfortunate for those who are close minded, it seems to be the trend that most of the time when they spout out those types of comments like his thoughts on the Jews, that's exactly what they are "Thoughts" they have no scriptural ground for them, and rather they have probably come from someone else who has said that to them and it was just accepted. When people are taught certain things from childhood such as racism, antisemitism, etc.
it sticks with them until they are shown the Undeniable Truth of the Gospel.

What I have found to be useful in this situation is when I encounter someone like this and they spout out some ignorance, to me it is ignorance because they have not been made aware of the truth. I get to talking with them when I have the perfect opportunity, I tell them I am interested in getting to know more about their beliefs, I like researching all types of things and religion is one of them. Could they provide me a source for the foundation of their beliefs? That would be great! and I tell them I am Apostolic and give them a source that has the foundation of my beliefs in, such as pamphlets or a special paper I have made on my computer. They may provide you with some sort of documentation of their doctrine or they may never, they can take mine or throw it away or look at me like I am Apostolic and I am crazy! but they may also take the time to read it when no one else is around, like kids get into candy when no one else is looking, you can pray over the info that you give to this person and pray that it strikes this persons curiosity. And let me say that most of the time, they do and then come the questions.

When the questions come I get really excited and I know the Lord has pricked their heart for knowledge and truth,
Maybe a friendly non-intrusive way of conversing about your differences will spark his curiosity even a little bit.

Good Luck and God Bless!
Sis. Rodgers

Faithchild
04-22-2003, 11:32 PM
Bro. Steingass, I've been warned by Admin to stay away from promoting David Duke's writings on this forum. So obviously I will.
What we see as evidence of God's blessing on the Jewish people, people such as your boss interpret it as evidence of an international Zionist conspiracy. In the spirit of "Becoming all things . . ." If you were well-versed in his bias, then perhaps you could incrementally poke enough holes in it until the true Light could shine through? It's a tough one . . .

Bro.Steingass
04-23-2003, 07:29 AM
Faithchild,

Good point.. What bothers me is his inconsistency, If he believes the whole Zionist plot thing (a KKK doctrine) how then can he also stand up and believe against racism (a KKK doctrine)

Stupidity....what's sad, everyone around him thinks he's stupid. Why don't some people believe in RIght and Wrong, Good and evil. WHen I was a kid, cartoons and comics promoted Good vs. Evil, now they're all liberalized, and the big bad corporation, or Evil Zionist masters are in charge. --Pathetic