"Kid-friendly" churches? [Archive]

Daydreamer228

07-20-2004, 08:19 PM

To make a long story short, I used to attend an Apostolic church (not UPC) that was so small that there wasn't a nursery for infants and toddlers. After trying to attend, my daughter said that she couldn't get anything out of the service if she was having to chase her very active toddler. We started going to a different Apostolic church (UPC this time) and were assured a nursery for her toddler and infant. Sunday night, we were only at the service for 20 minutes before we had to leave. No nursery care - again. It was impossible for us to handle the little ones (2-1/2 year old and 14-month-old, and both very hyper) and get anything from the song service, not to mention the looks we were getting from people turning around to see what the commotion was. So we left. One member even held the door open for my daughter and the kids to leave, no questions asked!

I posted this on another Christian forum that I frequent, and I just wondered if those in other UPC churches have found this to be the norm or if it's the exception to the rule. We're going to call around to other UPC churches in the area to see if there are ANY kid-friendly churches before trying to go again. On a side note, I'm still fairly new to the Pentecostal church so I don't really understand enough about it to be missing the service to keep them in the nursery, and my daughter hasn't been saved yet so she can't do it either.

As it is, the kids have to stay in the sanctuary during the song service anyway, so by the time the message is started, we're already too frustrated to get much out of it anyway. Is YOUR church kid-friendly? Thanks in advance.

Doris

hna_diana

07-20-2004, 08:49 PM

How funny that what you want in church is exactly the opposite of what I want! Not to say that my needs or opinions are any better or more correct than yours, but I feel differently about things.

I have two children. I took what I saw as 'my' God-given responsibility to 'raise them up in the way they should go' very seriously. If I had gone to a church that mandated nursery care so that the adult congregation would not be distracted, I would have politely turned around and never gone back.

Were my children normal? Well, maybe not. The first one had many allergies and was extremely colicy. Nursing made her happy, and as long as I was nursing her most of the time, she was reasonably quiet. The second one had few allergies, but was pretty active.

When they were toddlers I brought quiet play toys to church. I sat on one end of the pew, and a friend would sit on the other end. We would let the children travel between us as long as they weren't louder, or getting more attention than the minister.

I completely understand and sympathize with your situation of having extremely active children and not being able to benefit from services. However, I don't think that ALL parents should be encouraged or mandated to use available child care. I go to a church now that allows the children to come to the altar area and 'dance before the Lord' during the singing. This is a way to let the kids get the wiggles out before the preaching. They also allow nursing mothers to stay in the sanctuary (hopefully with a little cloth over any exposed skin). The volume is very loud in my church, so noisy kids are hardly noticed.

Have you considered that the children might be over-active because of allergies or other conditions? When my kids were small and rashy, I did a lot of study. I found out that allergies and intolerances can irritate children so that they appear to be uncooperative or even out-of-control, but that the real culprit is the irritation to their system. My younger child was very naughty under the influence of corn! My friend's child was uncontrollable under the influence of citrus. If we kept these things out of our children's diets, we had manageable little people.

Could it be that you're frustrated because you want them to be perfectly still and quiet? I've seen some kids that can be that way, and they usually have extremely docile parents. If there is livliness in the genetics, you have to expect it in the children.

God Bless! I'll be interested to read other opinions.

Hna. D

tufluv

07-20-2004, 10:22 PM

Well I have feelings on this topic.
'scuse the long post! :D

I come from a small church myself, ['bout 50 on a good day] but with MANY children..and we could never get anything organized in the way of a children's nursery, or church...at least not anything regular.
There were times that some of the sisters would volunteer, and we figured that the members with small children themselves, would be great candidates for helping out on rotation..but not frequently.
The pastor had to pretty much insist that the deacon or minister's wives help out with the children at regular intervals, and this did not necessarily mean taking them elsewhere..sometimes different sisters would take a child each to sit with them., etc. My sis friend and I did this many times. "adopt a child" LOL!..when I could which was rare since I was filming.

AND, it depends on what the focus of the church is..to reach out to the unsaved..helping them in any way possible, including providing a nursery so that they may be able to concentrate on what is being taught..or to just cater to the already saved..pew warmers, whom may let their children run wild.

I think that someone who is already an Apostolic, perhaps a mature one...might take turns helping out with the children. Sure many may say its for the parents themselves to watch their own kids, and some parents WILL insist they'd rather keep their little ones with them..and some children are very well behaved as in don't run up and down the aisles, refusing to obey their parents...running/screaming if you try to catch 'em to sit 'em down, etc. Kids can and will be kids..but that doesn't mean they don't have to mind.

It really is up to the parents that..IF they decide to keep their children in the sanctuary, to also run after them..and not expect others to.

Some parents do not want anyone touching their kids, and thats fine, I was like that...but if THEY don't do anything and those kids are disrupting service for others..that is not being thoughtful of others.

I am writing with my own home church in mind. There was a particular set of sisters, who were so much alike everyone thought they were twins...those girls were "terrors" I mean running up to the platform even..with their parents doing nothing. Those girls were afraid of no one..and totally disrespectful..and oblivious to what everyone was there for, they were about 6 yrs old when they started coming.

Just recently in returning to visit that church, 3 yrs later...they are 'bout the same! They must be ADHD or something. Yes, we were very glad that their dad first started coming, got baptized...his wife jumped in right after..as it turns out her heart was not doing it for the right reason..she caused much trouble amongst the sisters (long story)..was very disobedient..etc.

Another problem with disruptive children in the sanctuary is when I was filming the services...its so very hard to do when children (and even some adults) pass right in front of the camera...and the children being noisy..one could hardly hear the preaching! When it came time for me to edit and then air on t.v. the videos...I was embarassed to have lots of background noise blocking out the sermon! (and not just kids, some adults talking as well! lol )..I could only edit so much! lol [and they're wanting me to return to do this again]??? :eek:

There must be ORDER in the house of GOD...respect!
Reverance., When the WORD is being read..how sad that some people don't even stop talking even then! This happened in my last church a lot! And the pastor's own wife, sons..co-pastors youth...ALL talking amongst themselves. :grumble:
I could hardly believe it. Seems the WORD of GOD has taken a back seat to fellowship in the sanctuary during preaching in some churches..I don't miss that! AND, don't get me started on those "muching" on treats like candy, gum, etc.!! :grumble: :grumble:

Having been in baptist churches for many many years before ever even hearing about Apostolics,...their churches always had a nursery, and childrens church., there are two churches I was a member of during my 16 yrs (off and on) as one. Very organized.

Yes, I AM for children learning how to be in church like the adults, BUT...they are NOT adults and cannot be expected to act as such. IF they cannot behave in adult church, there should be somewhere else available for them to "act out" to where the first time visitors will not leave disgusted, or frustrated.
I was taught, and believe..that "visitors" are so very special and important. The unsaved's needs should come first. First impressions are difficult to undo.

HnaDiana - sorry if these opinions of mine conflict with yours..BUT..we're still sisters!

Daydreamer228

07-20-2004, 11:05 PM

My daughter also has a 5-year-old son who usually sits very quietly during the service. I don't mind any child being in the sanctuary, and even taking part in the service, but I've only seen two other young children there. Both are a little older than my granddaughters. With them not having been in church before now, they can't really be expected to know how to act in church, which is why we'd like the nursery for now.

I was also raised in the Baptist church, where we had one particular lady to watch the nursery. There was a speaker in there so she could still hear the service. (The nursery at this church is right off the sanctuary, so they can still hear the service, ideally anyway.) In addition, if there were no small ones for the nursery for that service, the lady was free to be in the sanctuary. I was in the sanctuary from as far back as I can remember. But I was started in church at birth. My mom was the pianist. I really regret not starting my children and them not starting my grandchildren in church from birth. So we're just trying to find a resolution to it the distraction.

Not having a nursery is only part of the problem. As stated in my first post, we didn't actually leave until we started getting the looks from the adults who were turning around. We were doing the best we could to keep them under control. Not meaning that we were expecting them to sit down and be still, but to just be quiet in their play and to not venture out of our row. Every time we stopped the older girl from going out of our row (and disturbing those sitting at either end), she'd throw a tantrum. (Trust me, we DO believe in disciplining them, she's just very strong-willed and it's hard. As my daughter says, God's still working on her.) Give them another year or so to calm down a little, and we'll be more than happy to have them be in there with us.

I've been asking around out of curiosity about other denominations and I'm finding that no nursery is getting to be the norm. I'm more concerned with distractions during the service. I know that if we aren't getting anything out of the service because of the distractions, then those who are turning around to glare at us aren't either. (Our church is small, maybe somewhere around 60 members, but it's only three years old.)

Anyone else? Thanks again for the input!

Doris

Daydreamer228

07-20-2004, 11:12 PM

What I'm trying to say (and not doing a very good job of it) is that I want to see my daughter saved and filled with the Holy Ghost, then we can work on the kids together instead of feeling distracted from the purpose of being there.

Doris

oneway238

07-20-2004, 11:17 PM

I think it is good to have nursery to take you kids to:)
If that is what you want to do but also if you decide to keep you kids out of the Nursery if your kids start make to much noise you need take them out

we are a small church:) I am praying we grow so we can have nursery every service:)
we have a nursery in the morning service on Sunday.

I work in the nursery.

GBU all
oneway238

oneway238

07-20-2004, 11:23 PM

LilOrphanAnnie

07-20-2004, 11:37 PM

I totally understand the concerns about dealing with toddlers in church. When we moved here not long ago, one of my priorities in finding a church was having a good nursery. It is just impossible to keep some kids still for that long. My girl, she is 3-1/2 now, it could be done, with some effort. But my boy, he's 1-1/2, NO WAY!!

Generally I have found that smaller churches/home missions works just aren't able to have space & all. I deliberately excluded home missions churches from my search for this reason!

However I did find a wonderful church. They finished their new building recently, and the nursery is somewhat small but very nice. It is a room in the back of the sanctuary, soundproof mostly, with a window, and they even installed a speaker so one can still hear the preaching. This is very important to me. I missed at least a good two years' worth of preaching, because my last church didn't have speakers in the nursery, and it was downstairs, and I had to nurse my kids. (When they did get a speaker, a key nursery employee dictated that having it on was "too distracting"- uh-huh- ) Here is a hint (I didn't do it but I should have): If for whatever reason they just won't put a speaker in, then buy a baby monitor. Stick the sending part in your purse or a bag and leave it at your seat. Probably if you close the bag, you can still hear o.k. & no-one will know. Take the receiver into the nursery with you, then you can still hear the sermon. (See if there is a headphone slot on the receiver & use bud earphones if you want to be discrete.) However most churches are good about having speakers. You can always track down who is in charge of the sound department, be real sweet, keep asking for speakers each week, and offer to buy wireless speakers if necessary. They can be had pretty cheaply & they just plug in, very easy to do.

Plus, if a church that God directs you to doesn't have a nursery, then offer to help. Share your concerns with the pastor and/or whoever is dealing with the kids of that age. Help organize something, find a room to do it in, fix it up nice, make a list of nursery helpers, etc.- if the church is just not having one because of space & lack of help, then they should be glad to have you. (Some churches really believe all children should be in the sanctuary and just "trained better" to be quiet, I guess. I'm so-o-o happy mine isn't like that.)

One thing though, and I confess I haven't done it with my kids, is to practice having church at home. Like, practice sitting them down for increasingly longer periods of time, lots of rewards, etc. That way they learn to just SIT for 30 minutes or eventually, the whole couple hours or whatever.

havefaithinGod

07-20-2004, 11:43 PM

I can understand what you are saying. While your daughter is seeking the Holy Ghost you would like for her to feel free to do so without having to chase children.

There are times in service that I wish so badly someone would come take my child so I can worship the way I need to. I have a 4 year old and a 3 month old. My daughter is pretty good during worship service and will sit with a friend if I leave my pew. My son however needs attention.. I didnt need to tell you all that. Hes 3 months old.LOL.

I havent done it yet because people are good about taking my son if they see that I am trying to worship, or if I ask them to watch him. But I have decided that when I feel the spirit moving on me to do something, I will take my son to someone. I dont want to hinder anyone from getting a blessing, but (and I dont mean this rude in any way, although it will sound as such) there are people who arent going to worship no matter what you do. Why does it hurt them to watch my son while I get mine??

A friend and I have already talked about maybe we just need to grab our kid and run with them.

My daughter was horrible in church when we first started. She has been to Sunday School alot since she was little, but she wasnt used to night service. We stuck with it. We took her out if she got too rowdy, corrected her, then we went back into service. We sat close to the back. Finally we decided that we were tired of sitting in the back.

So we moved 6 pews from the front. We told our daughter that the sides of the pew were the invisible gates and she cant go past the gates... ( she liked to get out in the aisle and spin-- just i know .. a big distraction and not to mention embarrassing). Plus we told her we were lots closer to the pastor. If he saw her acting up he could get on to her.

Her behavior has changed so much. She is learning. We arent sure sometimes if she is even listening to the service, but on the way home she has some question about the preaching to ask about.

During worship service, our church goes up to the front to worship. She likes to go up there too. She leaps and lifts her hands. Maybe she doesnt really know what its ALL about but she has an idea. She knows people are praying and thanking God for His blessings. She wouldnt know these things were she stuck back in a nursery every service.

I can understand the benefits of a nursery. I also know first-hand the benefits of taking your children in the sanctuary. Those children will soon get used to being there.

It bothers me though that you have had people stare because of the commotion of the children. I know it is distracting at times, but you have to make a point not to stare. Ok, I have had people turn and look at us. When the pastor is preaching and he acknowledges my husband or I during the message, my daughter says.... "OOOOH HES TALKING ABOUT YOU!!"

I have said alot I know.. I hope this makes sense. I realize the point of your question. Perhaps you could find saints in the church willing to help take care of your daughters children while she tries to get all she can out of the service. But later on you will see the benifits of letting them witness the awesome power of a Holy Ghost filled service.

LilOrphanAnnie

07-20-2004, 11:51 PM

My oldest is 3-1/2. I'll be glad when I can train her to be in service. I don't generally get to, because the youngest BOY cannot keep still whatsoever, I have to have him in nursery. Cause I'm alone there, I have to take her with me, I don't want to burden another saint with keeping her in line in the sanctuary, it wouldn't be fair. Well, the time will come when I will be able to keep the other one in line too, in the sanctuary.

ddc101

07-20-2004, 11:53 PM

Hi Sister,
I suppose kid friendly was not a good term to describe what you are discussing.We should all be kid friendly.In our church family we all stay in the sanctuary for Sunday service and then we break into childrens church.I and my helper take the children out.As for small babies there is a book availble from Pentecostal Publishing House on How to teach small children to behave in Church.As for the stareing....shame on them.We encourage everyone to bring all children to church.The kids love song service more than the adults.
In fact one three year old just shouts all over and really worships.She puts us to shame.I am a mother of three.I understand that children can be disruptive.
I used to take my last two into the nursery which was equipped with a glass window and speaker.I can remember times when I asked myself....why did I even come tonight.But thats a part of raising a family.I have been a part of large assemblies with nurseries but honestly I like to see the family enviroment in church.We just need to teach them young to behave.I still am honing in on my seven year old.She gets out of hand from time to time and I am on the platform and her daddys doing the preaching.Sometimes its a trial but I will say that adults need to be more acceptable of children in church.Hey if we miss anything we can always get the tape.lv sis.c

oneway238

07-21-2004, 12:08 AM

[QUOTE=ddc101]Hi Sister,
I suppose kid friendly was not a good term to describe what you are discussing.We should all be kid friendly.In our church family we all stay in the sanctuary for Sunday service and then we break into childrens church.I and my helper take the children out.As for small babies there is a book availble from Pentecostal Publishing House on How to teach small children to behave in Church.As for the stareing....shame on them.We encourage everyone to bring all children to church.The kids love song service more than the adults.
In fact one three year old just shouts all over and really worships.She puts us to shame.I am a mother of three.I understand that children can be disruptive.
I used to take my last two into the nursery which was equipped with a glass window and speaker.I can remember times when I asked myself....why did I even come tonight.But thats a part of raising a family.I have been a part of large assemblies with nurseries but honestly I like to see the family enviroment in church.We just need to teach them young to behave.I still am honing in on my seven year old.She gets out of hand from time to time and I am on the platform and her daddys doing the preaching.Sometimes its a trial but I will say that adults need to be more acceptable of children in church.Hey if we miss anything we can always get the tape.lv sis.c[/QUOTE

yes, we need to be understanding for each other,
GBU
oneway238

Daydreamer228

07-21-2004, 06:09 PM

Good points, thank you. I know that "kid-friendly" wasn't a good term, I just couldn't think of another term at the moment. I guess I was still feeling the frustration. Thanks for the mention of the book, too. I'll definitely check that out. You've made me remember one of the things the 2-1/2-year-old has learned already. I was in severe pain not too long ago. She came up to me and put one hand on me, raised the other in the air, and closed her eyes. It was the sweetest thing. It really wasn't that bad to keep the toddlers in the sanctuary until the baby started walking. Now there's two to chase after. If one of us leaves with one of the toddlers, the other toddler will then start acting up because she feels left behind.

I wish I could agree on getting the tape if we miss something, but they very rarely tape the services at our church, so if we miss anything, it's just lost. I found that out by requesting a tape of a service once and then learned that a tape wasn't made. Thank you all again for your responses. (And truth to tell, I can block out anyone else's child being disruptive and not miss any part of the service, I just can't seem to block my grandkids or still hear the service on while disciplining them! Guess that's a one-track mind! LOL)

Doris

luvmyfamily

07-21-2004, 06:10 PM

The church my family attends has a LOT of children, so children's ministry is very important for us. We have Teen ministries, children's church, tot church, and nursery. Our family is thankful for these services, because my younger children can not sit still in a service and often begin to cry from being bored. Our nursery is very well organized; as in EVERYONE who has babies (and those without babies also choose to be put in the schedule) must serve during a service once a month. The woman in charge has people's names down on a calender for specific service dates and times. And that is when you are expected to serve. She hands out copies of the month's calender so you know when it is your turn. And that is the way it is accepted to do at our church. Nobody gripes and complains about it, and they don't worry about trying to get someone to volunteer.

My mom and dad's church (pastor), on the other hand, nobody does anything. They have a nursery (although the only kids in it are mine, when I visit), and they do have "children's church", both of which always has to be my mom to head up. Nobody else volunteers to do ANYTHING and it is very frustrating. They are a tiny church (about 7-10 people on average), and even then my parents cannot do EVERYTHING alone. But that is off-topic.

We are a military family with small children, and we move often, and we look for churches that have nurseries. We don't want other people to be distracted or disturbed during service, especially if they are unsaved and their very soul could depend on what they could or could not hear the preacher say.

ddc101

07-21-2004, 06:27 PM

Sisters I am glad I taught my children to behave in Church.Derek was no problem.He just slept on the pew until about the age of twelve.He woke up and one night received the Holy Ghost,got baptized etc.Stephanie was seven and Ashleigh six.Everybody got to be rocked back and forth on my lap in the prayer room since almost birth.Derek did not because he was not a newborn when I got saved but about four years old.Also we are a small church.But it really helps to bring a small carry bag for each child with small play toys and a coloring book and colors.Just don't get ones that make noises Because more than once our daughters doll did the loud...mama...thing during the preaching.Its possible.I know families who have well behaved in church large families.lv sis.c

Abigail4476

07-21-2004, 06:56 PM

I have always been a proponent of keeping our kids in the sanctuary with us. We taught our girls at a very young age to sit on the front row while we played music, and by the age of two, they were not allowed to go out just so they could play instead of sit still. Our son is now 22 months old, and we are gradually making the transition, getting him used to being in church for the entire service. We started much younger with our girls.

I like the convenience of having a nursery if its needed, but it should NEVER be mandatory, IMO, for parents to leave their children in nursery rather than take them to the house of God.

Children are a blessing from God, and I certainly don't see any Biblical principles that support keeping them out of His house just so there will be less background noise. :flame:

I agree, ddc; all churches should be "kid-friendly." Those who aren't should go back and re-read the story about the disciples shooing the children away, and Jesus' subsequent rebuke.

tufluv

07-21-2004, 07:18 PM

No one is talking about "shoo'ing" the kids away.

There's also a scripture in the Bible that speaks of everything being done decently and in order.

IF and only IF children cannot be controlled during a church service where the holy WORD of GOD is being taught...IMO they should have an alternate area to where they can "play" or be taught in terms they can understand at their age level.

I don't see it EVER as proper for children to run amuck amongst adult members and VISITORS..distracting from the holy WORD of GOD. There are plenty of other opportunities for children to learn about GOD's spirit, at church, or even at their homes.

Truthseeker

07-21-2004, 07:23 PM

I think if we train right, they will respond right. Not perfect all the time, but right.

I wouldn't pick a church on if they have a nursery or not.

I think more fathers need to step to plate on this area, IMO.

ddc101

07-21-2004, 08:38 PM

Amen I agree Brother Rob.I think its boths responsibility.I love to see mom and dad actively envolved with the children.I cannot stand to see the mom get the glares.But honestly do you think the criticism goes to the dad for the ill behavior...Sister So and So take your child out...etc.Sis.so and so's house is so dirty all the time.Even if she works full time as well as he does.Ultimately the sister will get the evil eye over it believe me.What really floors me is to see a man correct his wife in public over the children misbehaving.I have seen this time and time again.lv sis.c

Truthseeker

07-21-2004, 08:48 PM

seguidordejesus

07-21-2004, 08:56 PM

but there's somethig different when the belts in dad's hand!

lol, you´re absolutely right! it´s called F-E-A-R!!!!
(or should be, anyway :))

ddc101

07-21-2004, 09:41 PM

Because of Jewish tradition you will find those analogies but consider what these writers said:

Prov 30:17
17 The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.
(KJV)

Prov 31:1-6
1 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.
2 What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows?
3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
(KJV)

Matt 15:4-6
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
(KJV)

Both mother and father are included in the upbringing.A good mother can teach you honorable things but a bad mother can teach you shameful things
1 ddc 101

Jillian

07-22-2004, 09:58 AM

I agree with Abigail. I raised my children on the pew, they can be taught to sit quietly, or have a paper and pencil to doodle with. I want my chilren where the spirit of God is.
I have seen little ones praying and dancing and such.

When my youngest was a little baby, still in a carrier seat, I would sit her in it on the pew beside me, as our Pastor started preaching her eyes would dart around trying to find him. As she got older and she could sit up she would follow him with her eyes. One of her first words was Hallelujah, it was so cute. It was a word she heard said a lot. As the music quieted you could hear her little voice "allwuja" My pastor looked at me and I just nodded yes.

She loves the Lord and her church so much.
Here is a sad story.
I had just lost my father 11 days prior, Katie was 5 at that time. Also her stepgrandfather was dying from cancer, so our pastor whom she loved very much told her she could call him grandpa. As he was ending his message the very day he told her that, he died of a heart attack. Her stepgrandpa also passed away that same evening. It was a hard year for me but thank the Lord for his peace and mercy.

Abigail4476

07-22-2004, 10:00 AM

I agree that many behavioral problems are caused by one parent or the other not fulfilling their responsibilities. Fathers and mothers both are vital contributors, and to have either one neglecting their children's upbringing will result in confusion, lack of discipline, disrespect, etc., on the part of the child.

Fathers are a good source of discipline, however, mothers are a good balance to that, because men have a tendency to be too harsh in this area. (See the military to prove my point) (The military has its place, of course, but the home is not that place)

In the case of misbehaving children in church, I agree, discipline is in order. However, we taught both of our daughters to sit on the front row quietly, and I don't believe my husband ever used a belt. They have received spankings for misbehaving, yes...but they were so young when we started teaching them, that spanking them wasn't appropriate. That isn't how we taught them to sit still. Spanking and discipline shouldn't be interchangeable. Spanking, IMO, should be a last resort, and only for open rebellion or defiance. It shouldn't be a tool commonly implemented for general guidance. Spanking is one small method of discipline; it most certainly shouldn't be the whole method or even the most commonly used method.

Qwizcoach

07-22-2004, 11:24 AM

My husband and I keep our son in service with us. I've been asked several times about putting him in our church nursery and helping in the nursery. When he is older (he is 14 mos now) I will send him to Sunday School, but for now my husband and I are doing the "babysitting" right on the church pew. Jacob loves to sit on daddy's lap and watch the pastor preach, clap his hands, and yell amen (his form anyway which is usually AAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhh LOL). I love seeing him clap and raise his hands and wave them in worship! How else is he going to learn, but to be in service with us? I believe it is our responsibility to train him how to behave and worship in service. He won't learn that playing with toys in the nursery. He gets plenty of time to play with toys M-Sat.

If he gets out of hand I quietly take him to the back and correct him. I definately don't take him to the nursery for being noisy in church !

NanaRenan

07-22-2004, 01:46 PM

As it is, the kids have to stay in the sanctuary during the song service anyway, so by the time the message is started, we're already too frustrated to get much out of it anyway. Is YOUR church kid-friendly? Thanks in advance.

Sister Doris - Praise the Lord!

I understand where you're coming from entirely. I've often invited people with small children to church only to have them leave and never return because there wasn't a nursery availble like they were used to in their other churches.

Mine are pretty much grown now (15, 18, 21 and 23 - but I have a GrandDoll so it's still an issue I'm familiar with). When mine were little our church was small and the elder pastor was adamant against an actual nursery. We did have a room for changing diapers, breastfeeding or soothing a fussy baby, but it wasn't manned all the time where mother's could leave their children and return to the service.

Many is the time I walked out of church and wondered why I had bothered going!

But, we did survive.

One trick I learned -- I would "collect" little goodies throughout the week and put them in a bag and staple it shut. Each child got exactly the same thing at the others so there was no squabbling between them. And they only got their bag if they behaved during song service -- by "behaved", I mean I expected them to be on their feet and clapping like we were. That is usually enough activity to keep them entertained. The goodie bags came out after the sermon text was read and we were seated.

For the most part, whatever doo-dad was in the bag served to occupy them thru most of the sermon and they either drifted off to sleep :bore: or entertained themselves til it was over.

Now that church is much bigger and does have a staffed nursery for infants to 2 y/o. I guess the idea is that 2 is about the age they need to start being trained to behave in service.

I know it can feel awkward and embarrassing to have people look. Because I remember this so well, I fight hard to not look, but sometimes, it's a reflex. If I do, I always try to smile a great big "I-know-exactly-how-you-feel, Sister" smile at the mom. Anyone who's ever raised a child on the church pew knows it's never easy.

Another thing to consider....I've heard several preachers remark on this.....after years of preaching, they believe babies and children are very sensitive to the movement of spirits around them. My current pastor says you can sometimes sense a move of the Holy Ghost by watching the children -- they'll become very quiet and watchful. Likewise, he says, if there are agitating spirits present trying to disrupt service and keep people in the flesh -- they'll often provoke the children to cry or misbehave.

Just threw that out for consideration -- don't mean to start another controversy. :beammeup:

luvmyfamily

07-22-2004, 02:24 PM

Well one big thing with us is that more than half of the year, Daddy isn't with us. He is deployed somewhere. So when it is up to only Mommy to try and control a toddler, a preschooler, and a 6-year-old, to be quiet in a pew (even with quiet toys) that is when she REALLY needs the help of a nursery, etc. And like one sister said, it is good when the children can go to a place where they can understand at their own level (i.e. nursery, children's church, etc.). It isn't "shooing" them out, or keeping them from God's Word, for the sake of quiet. it is ministering to them.

Also, my 12 year old, who's English is very limited, understands Jesus in KID terms, rather than adult terms. When she goes to children's church, she gets SO much more understanding than she does when she sits in the sanctuary with me. She doesn't understand about our way of doing things, especially at the altar, where, as she puts it, we are "crazy". It really intimidates her and scares her a bit to see people dancing in church, speaking in tongues, falling to the floor, etc. We are not out of control as I have seen some churches, but still she is quite apprehensive about it. Anyway that is all I have to say.

And I have nothing against having children in the sanctuary when they are good and behave themselves. it is a blessing when they have the control to do that.

Daydreamer228

07-22-2004, 09:00 PM

"My current pastor says you can sometimes sense a move of the Holy Ghost by watching the children -- they'll become very quiet and watchful. Likewise, he says, if there are agitating spirits present trying to disrupt service and keep people in the flesh -- they'll often provoke the children to cry or misbehave."

You know, I never thought of it like that! Of course!! That makes a lot of sense!

One poster mentioned Dad being part of the discipline. That doesn't work in my daughter's household. Dad isn't home from work enough to discipline, and when he is there, he barks at them and curses, etc. Not a good example. Usually, he'll ask my daughter why she doesn't try to stop them from doing whatever it is (changing channels on the TV, turning on and off the light, which the 2-year-old does when she's sleepy). He doesn't go to church. He claims to be an atheist, I just know he was raised in the Catholic church, but the only time I've ever known him to attend a service was when my daughter and I started going to this church and he showed up at one service to "see who she's interested in."

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll check out the dollar store this weekend to see what I can find that would keep them occupied during services. On one hand, I'd like for them to be in the nursery so we can get what we need from the service. But on the other hand, I'd like for them to stay in the sanctuary to learn. I was raised in church from birth and I was in the sanctuary for as long as I can remember. Mom is gone now, so I can't ask if she ever did put me in the nursery, but we were taught from birth how to behave in church.

Thank you all again. You're really helping me to see both sides of this.

Doris

NanaRenan

07-22-2004, 09:24 PM

Dad isn't home from work enough to discipline, and when he is there, he barks at them and curses, etc. Not a good example. Usually, he'll ask my daughter why she doesn't try to stop them from doing whatever it is (changing channels on the TV, turning on and off the light, which the 2-year-old does when she's sleepy). He doesn't go to church. He claims to be an atheist, I just know he was raised in the Catholic church, but the only time I've ever known him to attend a service was when my daughter and I started going to this church and he showed up at one service to "see who she's interested in."
Sister, I'll pray for your daughter and son-in-law. I know how that must worry your soul.

My son-in-law was raised to attend a Methodist church, rather infrequently. He name claims to be an atheist. He resents that church is such a big part of our lives and that my granddaughter loves to go to church with us more than anything. Now we've had to move away and aren't there to take her. He surely won't and my daughter works most weekends.

I've had to walk away and put them in God's Hands.

But you keep believing!!

tufluv

07-22-2004, 10:33 PM

Well maybe I'm a bit odd...but I believe that sermon time is a highly reverant time..and everyone should be intent on listening GOD speak through the preacher.

People, even on their own, can be easily distracted as in day-dreaming, or whatever. lol

But add anything else to that mix, and then there are "excuses" why someone did not pay attention or got distracted. Misbehaved or just loud children in the sanctuary who are NOT paying attention to the preacher, can be disruptive.

Someone mentioned how else can children learn about GOD..and to worship GOD? How bout at home? They can be pre-taught at home, not only about GOD, but how to behave at church, and really anywhere. Mine were very good children, well-behaved (luck?), respectful, in our early baptist days..even to this day. I would read christian story books to them..sing to them gospel songs, etc. at home.

I've seen young couples bring in their adorable new babies into the sanctuary, just to sit there and coo all over them, play with them, etc....instead of focusing on the WORD! The parents must be spiritually fed, so that they in turn can bring up their children right.

Babies are adorable, and even others around can be distracted by their preciousness (I have been)..but there's a time and place for everything. I'm sure they do lots more coo'ing over them at home, lol! I'm not knocking that.
But, if they start crying..its time to take them into the lobby or elsewhere so that others can hear the preaching.
Babies/children should be with parents as long as they behave. Parents need to regard the others there whom are trying to hear and learn.

Its important for toddlers to learn social skills, interact and fellowship with other children their own age in the nursery, sunday school, or childrens church., on their own level.
Just my take on all this., having raised three sons.

Daydreamer228

07-22-2004, 11:51 PM

NanaRenan

07-23-2004, 08:10 PM

Thank you for your prayers. I am about to move in with them, which can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing. Someone told me that once we move in together, my son-in-law will be the head of the household, but I'll be the spiritual leader of the house. Seems like a heavy load for me! But that's a little off-topic.
Off topic or not, all the more reason to keep you ALL in my prayers.

Last summer my husband and I rented a house back in Dallas -- where we moved from and where my married kids wanted to move back to. I lived there to kind of "hold down the fort", babysit, cover bills, cook and do laundry while they went about the business of getting jobs, getting enrolled in school and finding a place of their own.

My son-in-law set out to sabatoge this situation from the "get-go". And after only a few months moved out on his own leaving daughter and granddaughter behind. They eventually moved out, too, but not where he is.

It is a great mess. In my honest opinion -- the spirits that my son-in-law "entertains" by his wicked lifestyle were NOT content to live in a home where prayer, fasting and Bible study went on. They made him too uncomfortable to live there.

After he AND my daughter were gone, things became much more pleasant for those remaining and shortly thereafter my son was refilled with the Holy Ghost and he and his wife are now attending church.

You moving in will probably have a strong effect -- which way? There's no predicting. Just expect that there will most likely be spiritual battles.

I'm not saying this to be pessimistic and certainly not to scare you. But based on what you've already said and what I've recently lived thru -- I'll be very surprised if this is an easy or pleasant endeavor.

God bless. And feel free to send me a private message any time you need to talk. I'll be praying.

ddc101

07-24-2004, 11:45 PM

This is just my opinion okay but I have am married with children and one is married.If I ever had to move in with them for any reason I would have to mind my own business.It would be my son and daughter in laws household I would be the spiritual head of myself and myself only.Honestly I don't care if they need a live in baby sitter I would not do that sister.It can turn out to be the ugliest thing you were ever tempted into.They need to figure out how to make it as a couple not with you moving in and sitting.It could end up in a major family war.Plus your daugther is going to be tempted to come to you with everything and that could greatly undermine your son in laws authority in the home.Regardless if he is saved or not he is still the authority there.
I say pray hard before doing this.It could be your worst nightmare.How about going to your pastor and asking what he thinks.If he says the same as me then you know that its two or more witnesses.I am putting myself on the line telling you this.You may not ever like me but I have to say it.lv sis.c