Feminizing of Churches across America

[BrotherBallard]

I just started reading a book "Six battles every man must win," I'm curious as to how much "feminizing" is going on in the Apostolic ranks. Has the Church been a place and refuge for women for the past 4 to 5 decades, and due to the overwhelming response of ladies, the Church has been acclimated to their needs, wants, etc. From what the book states it is implying that men are not as active participants as ladies are, and from that stance the Church is being built around ladies.
The survey is accross all denominations in the USA, I'm curious, is this happening in the Apostolic ranks? I know from personal experience and the Churches that I attend and fellowship with, this isn't the case. Is this something that is only going on in 'secular' christendom, or is it seeping into our Churches as well?

In His Name!!!

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Well, what exactly do you mean by feminization of the church? What do you mean, catering to their needs?

I don't know if it's related but my previous pastor once spoke about the the male and female aspect of the church in this way- That the rules, the judgement, the "standards", the "doctrine" gun, the "head" stuff is very masculine. Mercy, grace, love for each other, ferverent fellowship, touchy-feely stuff, that is very feminine. (these are just terms he used to describe a phenomenon.) We as the apostolic church are very good at the "masculine" things, but NOT good at the "feminine" things. We'll tell sinners how to get to heaven, and preach sound doctrine, but emotionally they will just starve to death, and can attend 10 years and still be lonely, lonely, lonely because there's no-one to fellowship, love, or disciple them. (When the Prodigal Son left home, did the father go out to the byways and seek him out and love him back? No sir, he stayed at home. --I've literally heard that from certain people!! It's like, sink or swim, buddy!)

So anyway in this respect, the "feminization" of the church is a good thing. Other than that, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you explain please, cause it doesn't quite sound like what you were talking about.

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Ooops, I didn't notice it was in the men's discussions- sorry- but if my words are interesting enough maybe they can stand, otherwise I'll take them down-

[tufluv]

Ooops, I didn't notice it was in the men's discussions- sorry- but if my words are interesting enough maybe they can stand, otherwise I'll take them down-
Thats why I stopped myself also...did not want to be guilty of doing something not in good taste, or order.

[BrotherBallard]

Nothing out of order, but please don't confuse "feminine" with "feminist." Completely different. From what I'm reading, it's more along the lines of the "feminist" movement that is where the author is coming from in the 'Secular' Churches accross our nation. That's what I mean by 'feminizing.'
Did I clear up my question, or is it still as clear as mud?

Ooops, I didn't notice it was in the men's discussions- sorry- but if my words are interesting enough maybe they can stand, otherwise I'll take them down-

[LilOrphanAnnie]

a little more clear, but not much. Can you give examples? :)

[tufluv]

Nothing out of order, but please don't confuse "feminine" with "feminist." Completely different. From what I'm reading, it's more along the lines of the "feminist" movement that is where the author is coming from in the 'Secular' Churches accross our nation. That's what I mean by 'feminizing.'
Did I clear up my question, or is it still as clear as mud?
IF this is happening, and I'm not sure it is at least in my area, seems it would be partly due to the influx of women preacher/pastors now allowed.
Their influence would seem to produce more of this "feminizing" although I find it hard to associate "femine" with preacher/pastor.
Hope I'm not confusing what you meant..like Sis Caya, I'd like more examples.

[LadyRev]

IF this is happening, and I'm not sure it is at least in my area, seems it would be partly due to the influx of women preacher/pastors now allowed.
Their influence would seem to produce more of this "feminizing" although I find it hard to associate "femine" with preacher/pastor.
Hope I'm not confusing what you meant..like Sis Caya, I'd like more examples.


Oh yeah! There are TONS of women preachers/pastors among apostolics these days. Especially in the UPC! Yessiree theres more today than there were years ago. In fact, they will soon out number the MALE preachers/pastors...........















NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Put the "feminizing" blame somewhere else. :rolleyes:

:lame:


Ahhemmm, scuse me brethren for invading your section. I've seen a few guys over in the ladies section from time to time so I hope you'll let me slide. :D

[Abigail4476]

Bro. Ballard, let me see if I have this correct:

You are saying that since women make up the majority of church goers, that church has become more in tune with their needs than the needs of men?

If that is what you are saying, do you think that is good or bad?

If its not, explain some more....[please]

[BrotherBallard]

Please note my post that started this thread, I'm asking a question, due to a book that I'm reading. I'm not saying that women make up most of the Church in Pentecostalism, I'm stating what is in the book I'm reading.

Actually, it's more along the lines that due to the amount of ladies compared to men, the angle of the book is towards the masculinity of men in general, and what our roles are to be, and that in Churches today, the masculinity factor is diminishing. In other words, the reigns of leadership that men are not fulfilling are going to the ladies due to the fact that the men are not being men.

I'm not wanting to turn this into a "Can a lady Pastor thread." We already have one of those, I'm wanting to find out if this is happening in the Apostolic ranks. This book is written by a trinitarian, and I'm wanting to get a perspective of the world as those in GNC see it.

[ddc101]

I don't think that is the case whatsoever in the Apostolic church.In fact the apostolic assemblies cater to family life.Also I know there are more women in church than men.But the word says of Jesus that great was the company of women that followed him and ministered to him and that is still the same today.Women minister to the body of Jesus Christ.When we pray for one another and strengthen each other with uplifting words we are ministering to Jesus.I am glad to be saved.lv sis.c

[BrotherBallard]

What threads are they invading and who are they, I'll take care of them myself!!!:realmad: :ninja: :redcool:




Ahhemmm, scuse me brethren for invading your section. I've seen a few guys over in the ladies section from time to time so I hope you'll let me slide. :D

[Abigail4476]

Please note my post that started this thread, I'm asking a question, due to a book that I'm reading. I'm not saying that women make up most of the Church in Pentecostalism, I'm stating what is in the book I'm reading.

Actually, it's more along the lines that due to the amount of ladies compared to men, the angle of the book is towards the masculinity of men in general, and what our roles are to be, and that in Churches today, the masculinity factor is diminishing. In other words, the reigns of leadership that men are not fulfilling are going to the ladies due to the fact that the men are not being men.

I'm not wanting to turn this into a "Can a lady Pastor thread." We already have one of those, I'm wanting to find out if this is happening in the Apostolic ranks. This book is written by a trinitarian, and I'm wanting to get a perspective of the world as those in GNC see it.Okay, I gotcha!

Yes, I think it is happening to some extent. In fact, just last year we had some issues come up where some of the young men in our church were complaining about the responsibilities their wives handle in the church--everything from Sunday School Teachers to Drama director to choir members--however, when asked if they would be willing to fill the spots themselves, they were oddly silent.

So, yes...I think in many cases women are doing the majority of the work simply because men can't or won't. That is not to imply that women are doing something wrong by handling the responsibilities, because truly, if it has to be done, someone has to do it.

In our church for example: I would gladly turn the music department over to someone else who is competent, male or female--and there are at least two competent men in our church (and one other woman who could also handle the job)--however, neither man wants the job or would be willing to do what it takes to keep a quality music department running smoothly.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not so much talking about women taking over, as you are men sitting back and not doing enough....right?

[Rico]

Oh yeah! There are TONS of women preachers/pastors among apostolics these days. Especially in the UPC! Yessiree theres more today than there were years ago. In fact, they will soon out number the MALE preachers/pastors...........















NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Put the "feminizing" blame somewhere else. :rolleyes:

:lame:


Ahhemmm, scuse me brethren for invading your section. I've seen a few guys over in the ladies section from time to time so I hope you'll let me slide. :D


To quote a famous line from the movie, "Amityville Horror", Get out! Get out!







:jk:

You can stay. :p

[BrotherBallard]

Correct!!!
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not so much talking about women taking over, as you are men sitting back and not doing enough....right?
Let's notice and you stated it in your reply, how many men are Sunday School teachers? How many men are Choir directors? How many men are not doing different functions within a Church, that due to necessity, the ladies are having to undertake?

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Well guys, get with the program then. Stop being whiny babies and step up to the plate. :shrug:
(no offense meant to anyone present!! Just talking about the issue in general!!)

BTW I don't think it's true in my church. We have several men that work very hard & my pastor prays & works harder than any of them. God bless the men.

[tufluv]

Correct!!!

Let's notice and you stated it in your reply, how many men are Sunday School teachers? How many men are Choir directors? How many men are not doing different functions within a Church, that due to necessity, the ladies are having to undertake?
Im not sure that every time a woman takes over one of these positions, its because no man offered to...men just as women, should be appointed for those type positions.
Sometimes volunteering works, and may even be attempted at first., as in my first church, but if no one volunteers, then appointments may follow., and some churches may do this in reverse., I can only attest to what I've seen here, in my first home church.


Why else would one ask if its everywhere..if this is the norm...that women seem to run most everything (paraphrasing) in the church. In my last church, it really bothered me that we had the pastor's "wives" running everything., and screening whom could talk with the pastor; and instead mediating with messages! :grumble:

The fact that the pastor's allowed this indicated to me they were most likely 'hen-pecked' into giving them free rein., and so the leadership reflected this lack of control, as in no ministries, etc., the women wanted things to go as easily and work-free as possible, not really interested in reaping in the harvest., but instead going through the motions. That church is smaller than ever right now.
Some men are just brow-beaten by women., who can be very domineering.

[Renee29]

Well, I think there are alot of cases, like my case. My husband works full time (way more than 40 hours a week, it's what the job demands) he barely makes it to church much less doing extra type things. I on the other hand, don't work and have the freedom to go down to the church whenever and practice music, work on other projects etc.

[BrotherBallard]

I can't put in a couple of sentence what the book is stating....(Maybe that's why it's a BOOK!!!!) :laugh:

If anyone is interested the book is "6 battles every man must win," Bill Perkins.
http://www.christianity-books.com/Six_Battles_Every_Man_Must_Win_And_the_Ancient_Sec rets_Youll_Need_to_Succeed_0842382879.html

[tufluv]

I can't put in a couple of sentence what the book is stating....(Maybe that's why it's a BOOK!!!!) :laugh:

If anyone is interested the book is "6 battles every man must win," Bill Perkins.
http://www.christianity-books.com/Six_Battles_Every_Man_Must_Win_And_the_Ancient_Sec rets_Youll_Need_to_Succeed_0842382879.html
Sounds like the type book EVERY godly man should read.

It should be required!

:D

[Rico]

Well, I think there are alot of cases, like my case. My husband works full time (way more than 40 hours a week, it's what the job demands) he barely makes it to church much less doing extra type things. I on the other hand, don't work and have the freedom to go down to the church whenever and practice music, work on other projects etc.


Thank you very much. I was going to post something very similar. We live in an age where it is not uncommon for men to have to work 50-60 hours a week. Lots of men have to work on Sunday now when they didn't have to in the past. We still very much believe that women should stay at home instead of working and then fault the men for not having the time to do more at church because of having to work lots of hours. I wonder how many of these women Sunday school teachers, music directors, etc., even have full time jobs.

[Abigail4476]

Thank you very much. I was going to post something very similar. We live in an age where it is not uncommon for men to have to work 50-60 hours a week. Lots of men have to work on Sunday now when they didn't have to in the past. We still very much believe that women should stay at home instead of working and then fault the men for not having the time to do more at church because of having to work lots of hours. I wonder how many of these women Sunday school teachers, music directors, etc., even have full time jobs.
I do agree that in many cases the men are working full time jobs. However, in the case of the women's responsibilities--every one of them[in our church] either has a fulltime job, or they are the mother of small children (which is most certainly a fulltime job.) So comparing the time that would need to be invested in order for men to be committed to a role in church can be a volatile point, IMO.

I'm a stay at home mom, however, I can guarantee you that I have less time than my husband does. I've also worked an outside job, and I can assure you that it was easier than fulltime mom. My husband works very hard, and he is also involved in church obligations; but there are some men who work a consistent 40 hours a week, and they spend their extra time golfing, shopping on e-bay, refinishing cars, fishing, hunting, raquetball[sp?], collecting old bicycles, etc, etc. I'm not saying those things are wrong or bad--I'm just saying that if there is time to have hobbies and extra-curricular activities, then there is certainly time to be invested in church obligations. It's just a matter of prioritizing.

I think it is understood that a man should take care of his family first; so should a woman. However, if there is time for women to take care of church obligations after they have fulfilled their familial obligations, I'd think there's time for men to do the same.

[bjc40]

Have You ever noticed at how many church functions and assemblies the majority are women? Have You ever noticed how many women and kidos come to church without their husbands compared to how many men come to church without their wife?
So, are there more women saved than men? Or is it that women are more "spiritually sensitive" than men?
Just wondering....
:confused:
Brother bjc40

[tufluv]

Have You ever noticed at how many church functions and assemblies the majority are women? Have You ever noticed how many women and kidos come to church without their husbands compared to how many men come to church without their wife?
So, are there more women saved than men? Or is it that women are more "spiritually sensitive" than men?
Just wondering....
:confused:
Brother bjc40
Good question.

As has been posted already, there may be many factors as to why men aren't around as much as women., yes...I believe we are "sensitive", but as for more than men? I would not go that far.

And many women must come without husbands...I am one that has for the most part...had to do this. Salvation is a personal issue, and must be worked out individually. We as individuals, male or female...have our hands full with our own salvation...and caring for others, etc., evangelizing and such.

I'm not sure its a fair "general" assumption that more women are involved.

In either regard...ALL genders need to get more involved, and pastors need to let anyone who is so compelled to work in some ministry area...(not necessarily pastor/preach either)! There's plenty to do for everyone!

:D

[NanaRenan]

Have You ever noticed at how many church functions and assemblies the majority are women? Have You ever noticed how many women and kidos come to church without their husbands compared to how many men come to church without their wife?
So, are there more women saved than men? Or is it that women are more "spiritually sensitive" than men?
Just wondering....
:confused:
Brother bjc40
Just something to consider....

Have you ever noticed when people (examine yourself first) are struggling with living for God (either flat out running from His Will or just in spiritual warfare) the first thing they do is drop their most important responsibility in God's Holy Order.

For women -- they become rebellious. This is the opposite of submitting to their husband and pastor and in standards-practicing churches that usually means a strong move away from anything that is thought to represent holiness or identify them as part of that group.

For men -- they sometimes shirk their God-given responsibility to be the spiritual head of the family. The quickest way to sever that tie is to avoid going to church. He may only be seeking to lighten that burden on himself and not considering the ripple effect it might have on his marraige, children and the church body.

I grew up in a world like you mentioned, but to be honest, I've noticed more and more in recent years how many MEN come to church without their wives. The women without husbands still out-number them, but the gap is narrower now than I've ever seen.

And I'm sure I notice that more BECAUSE I am a woman and because while I was backslidden my husband became exceedingly faithful in his attendance. BEFORE I rebelled and quit going, he wasn't too worried about being punctual and if he'd had a bad day on Wednesday he'd stay home now and then. But when I backslid -- he really stepped it up and never missed an opening prayer or the altar call at the end.

[Rico]

I do agree that in many cases the men are working full time jobs. However, in the case of the women's responsibilities--every one of them[in our church] either has a fulltime job, or they are the mother of small children (which is most certainly a fulltime job.) So comparing the time that would need to be invested in order for men to be committed to a role in church can be a volatile point, IMO.

I'm a stay at home mom, however, I can guarantee you that I have less time than my husband does. I've also worked an outside job, and I can assure you that it was easier than fulltime mom. My husband works very hard, and he is also involved in church obligations; but there are some men who work a consistent 40 hours a week, and they spend their extra time golfing, shopping on e-bay, refinishing cars, fishing, hunting, raquetball[sp?], collecting old bicycles, etc, etc. I'm not saying those things are wrong or bad--I'm just saying that if there is time to have hobbies and extra-curricular activities, then there is certainly time to be invested in church obligations. It's just a matter of prioritizing.

I think it is understood that a man should take care of his family first; so should a woman. However, if there is time for women to take care of church obligations after they have fulfilled their familial obligations, I'd think there's time for men to do the same.


You are very right about one thing, we do like to fish, golf, go to ballgames, etc. Women have got their hobbies too. Our church has a group of women that have gotten into scrap booking. I don't really see the point in it but many of them would never spend 6-7 hours with a fishing pole in their hand trying to land the fish to end all fish stories either! At least the stay at home moms have the option of bringing the children to the church with them while working on activities and such. I'm happy as long as the person who God intended to have the position has it. It doesn't really matter much to me whether a woman is the music director or a man.

[ddc101]

Thank you very much. I was going to post something very similar. We live in an age where it is not uncommon for men to have to work 50-60 hours a week. Lots of men have to work on Sunday now when they didn't have to in the past. We still very much believe that women should stay at home instead of working and then fault the men for not having the time to do more at church because of having to work lots of hours. I wonder how many of these women Sunday school teachers, music directors, etc., even have full time jobs.


Sister Cooper does.I have a full-time job and eighty-four year old Poppa.
We pastor a church.I teach Childrens Church.In fact right now its the only sunday school for children we have since we are small.We own our own business and have two school aged daughters.I also play lead song service every service.Would I trade? Nope.Its always been this way even in the word.

Matt 27:55
55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
(KJV)

Mark 15:41
41 (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
(KJV)

Luke 23:49
49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
(KJV)

Acts 17:12
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
(KJV)

[Former PK]

Bro, Ballard,

Maybe you could list the 6 lessons.

I'm not sure if you are intending the same thing. But, Dr. Dobson, has made a very similar observation about society in general. That the efforts of the feminist movement has been somewhat suscessful in feminizing the male image. This has resulting in much gender confusion and also confussion on exactly what a mans role is in society.

[ddc101]

Personally I don't think the feminist movement has anything to do with feminizing males.They are fem if they want to be.Come to La and see all the men working hard in the crawfish fields and driving tractors in the rice and sugarcane and wonder again if we can make a generalized statement like that.What the feminist movement has succeeded in is only one thing...blowing hot air.We women could care less what they say.The only good thing to come out of that is poor working women whose husbands have dumped them can earn a decent wage.The rest is just junk and actually most women I know would love to be stay at home wives or mothers.The do it out of necessity.lv sis.c

[tufluv]

Bro, Ballard,

Maybe you could list the 6 lessons.

I'm not sure if you are intending the same thing. But, Dr. Dobson, has made a very similar observation about society in general. That the efforts of the feminist movement has been somewhat suscessful in feminizing the male image. This has resulting in much gender confusion and also confussion on exactly what a mans role is in society.
Sounds like a great idea, and study.

I don't know why anyone would have a problem in such a study, as it can be eye-opening..I'd LOVE to "check it out"..I've always appreciated DrDobsons teachings, even though a trini, he is an educated man, psychologist, and I would not entirely discount everything he has to say - kinda hard to believe a "trini" would see some of these things related to gender role switching, and then YET not necessarily see the whole of GOD's truth, as in JESUS name salvation.
That he would Not make "the connection"..between this topic of biblical gender roles rearrangement (by man) and recognize that lots more from the Bible, has been rearranged (by man) to accomodate personal preference, and/or current "cultural" trends.

Many studies/surveys are done all the time., I find them all interesting, and something in any of these may show us something we'd never seen before.

Truth is sometimes hard to swallow, yet we are to LOVE truth.

[BrotherBallard]

What the feminist movement has succeeded in is only one thing...blowing hot air.
Sis. Cooper I disagree, the feminist movement is actually "louder" than the gay rights activists. It's a very vocal and wealthy force in the states today. That same statement is not all inclusive in today’s society. I work in a hot bed of feminism and liberalism, in fact out of the 80 or so people in my place of business only 5 or less are conservatives, the rest are hard core liberals/feminists! These people are very active and they believe whole heartliy in their actions! It's a spirit that has swept the USA over the past 100 years or so and has become more intense since the 1960's.

[tufluv]

Sis. Cooper I disagree, the feminist movement is actually "louder" than the gay rights activists. It's a very vocal and wealthy force in the states today. That same statement is not all inclusive in today’s society. I work in a hot bed of feminism and liberalism, in fact out of the 80 or so people in my place of business only 5 or less are conservatives, the rest are hard core liberals/feminists! These people are very active and they believe whole heartliy in their actions! It's a spirit that has swept the USA over the past 100 years or so and has become more intense since the 1960's.

yet, there are a FEW normal women who would love to NOT have to assume leadership positions in the home due to a lazy or otherwise unchallenged man laying around not doing anything...or absent..from the home due to various reasons, NOT all of which might be the man's fault..I'll give 'em that.

Some of us women ARE the innocent victims of this 'feminist' movement that has largely contributed to the fraying of the fabric that holds a traditional (biblical) family together., while some of had embraced parts of this movement initially, as free rein to be "all that we can be"...(or were supposedly held back from being)..pursuing more fulfilling (and/or necessary) careers outside of homemaker.

I'm afraid, but not too proud, to admit that I was once a hard-core proponent of 'equal rights' when "in the world"...but no longer, since I am no longer "of the world"! :D GOD has helped me to see many of the former errors of my ways, praise JESUS! :bow:

This has been a large-scale attack by satan, against the family...and has sub-issues involved, such as the 3ltr word that promotes promiscuity..larger amounts of "liberated" women begin to feel (and continue to) that its okay to be the 'aggressor' in pursuing intimate relations with the opposite sex, just for "play"..men are more often the victims or targets, of brazen women (nothing new about this?), looking for a 'good time'. :D These actions further contribute to the disintegration of the family unit., and it goes on and on, the circle of destruction widens. So many women I've heard say "who needs a man"!
Does this help or hinder..a man assuming his rightful GOD-given role in a family unit?

And some of these men are either williing, or too weak to resist. Their masculinity being already challenged by the woman taking the red light called "equal rights" to assume such more aggressive attitudes, some men have just given up, given in...handing over control of areas formerly reserved for them, up to and including the leadership over the family unit. HEAD of household.

We see this evident in tax laws that were revised to include "whomever" these days IS the head of the household, most likely to acccomodate single parent homes, which numbers have evidently grown to such an extent that made it necessary to develop this (not too new) category under which to file taxes. How convenient.. :grumble:

Better stop now, I might could write my own book on this! JMHO's
Sorry if I've gotten :nt: I tend to do this..for my viewpoints usually include veiwing the bigger picture.
OR, I may just be ramblin... :D

[ddc101]

Sis. Cooper I disagree, the feminist movement is actually "louder" than the gay rights activists. It's a very vocal and wealthy force in the states today. That same statement is not all inclusive in today’s society. I work in a hot bed of feminism and liberalism, in fact out of the 80 or so people in my place of business only 5 or less are conservatives, the rest are hard core liberals/feminists! These people are very active and they believe whole heartliy in their actions! It's a spirit that has swept the USA over the past 100 years or so and has become more intense since the 1960's.



Brother Ballard,
not trying to be contentious but that would not survive in Louisiana.The cajuns take those out and they disapear and are never seen again.I suppose maybe its due to locale because here everyone has to work to make if financially and we are mostly too tired to get on tv or go to rallies.lv sis.c

[electladynb]

I know exactly what you are referring to. Typically, most churches tend to do more in regards to emotionalism which isn't something that a man demonstrates that much. And it could be because of so much emotionalism that many men choose not to go to church. It is also said that there's not as much knowledge gained, which is what men would prefer.... even in conversations amongst the genders; women will talk about family, cooking, etc. whereas men will always ask about their job, career, etc. Not saying that women and/or men don't do vice versa. But rather that typically the type of conversation between genders is different.

There definitely should be more of a balance. Of course this isn't EVERY church, but if a person were to give a "stereotype" (no matter if it is incorrect or not) about the church, we would find that most people associate moreso "femininity" with church. Which is sad, but true.

Brother Ballard, I hope that helps.

[ddc101]

I don't think we can judge the church like this.Jesus wept over Lazarus yet most men have trouble weeping.Maybe its because the Lord asks men to get in touch with the inner man and who they are in Jesus and that makes some men uncomfortable.Its not the women its the men and I know for sure my pastor doesn't feminize things.lv sis.c

[NanaRenan]

Sis. Cooper I disagree, the feminist movement is actually "louder" than the gay rights activists. It's a very vocal and wealthy force in the states today. That same statement is not all inclusive in today’s society. I work in a hot bed of feminism and liberalism, in fact out of the 80 or so people in my place of business only 5 or less are conservatives, the rest are hard core liberals/feminists! These people are very active and they believe whole heartliy in their actions! It's a spirit that has swept the USA over the past 100 years or so and has become more intense since the 1960's.
I do think there are widespread effects we've become accustomed to.

For instance:

Men hesitate to open doors for ladies, afraid it might be found offensive. I especially noticed this when I was younger. Either it has gotten better OR because I'm "identifiable" by my manner of dress as a conservative, I get preferential treatment. (Not meaning to launch standards into this thread.)

My sons had trouble accepting that my VOICE carried as much weight as a parent because I don't "bring home a check" even though nothing their father has ever said or done gives them the right to think that. It's because they've been conditioned by the media and society that if women don't work outside the home they have no value.

I could go on, but the packers will be here in the morning. YIKES!

[ddc101]

I wonder if its because I am from the south.Not to get preferential but we have Southern Gentlemans here still.My son is one.Also my husband.He opens my car door and oh well if he forgets I just stay put until he remembers..lol..
But anyway I have never had a problem with men paying the resturant tab either...... :icon_laug lv sis.c

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!

Feminism in the Church? What has been happening is "role reversal".
Beloved Sisters, please bear with me. In no way am I attempting to demean you, nor occupy a place that is reserved solely for your husbands. This preacher is only declaring what he has witnessed.
The religious movement has been more prone to "role reversal" because, by and large, women have been more easily manipulated. Even in the apostolic movement, I have witnessed men being muzzled while women are allowed to be more vocal. True that it is the females who generally first get into "church"; then, their children; and finally, their husbands. Because many fellowships have very few male members, and less communion among themselves, men have matured very slowly in the things of God. Males HAVE been more dominant in the heirarchy, and women are serving THEM (the males in positions of authority) under the color of submission.
In Mexico, as in many Third-World countries, most of the jobs are given to women; they are fast becoming the principal breadwinners. Women are also given "equal status" in the communication networks: testifying that the "world" has a greater sense of equality and righteousness than the Church. Especially in the news media, we can see a man and woman working side-by-side; subtly intimating equality of the sexes and the intimacy of husband and wife (to be more politically correct, maybe I should have said wife and husband).
Now the facade has been discarded, and this spirit is trying to force itself into the Church. It is unfortunate, in the eyes of this preacher, that many of our Sisters have been taken in by this movement. It is even more unfortunate that my Brothers, even some in the Ministry, have also partaken of this fruit.

It's the Gospel, Church!
Brother Villa

[BrotherBallard]

Thank you for your response Brother Villa you see where I'm coming from.
I in no means am accusing anyone here of this, I'm really inquiring as to how many have or if they noticed this happening within the Apostolic ranks.

In His Name!!!

[tufluv]

His NAME is Jesus!

Feminism in the Church? What has been happening is "role reversal".
Beloved Sisters, please bear with me. In no way am I attempting to demean you, nor occupy a place that is reserved solely for your husbands. This preacher is only declaring what he has witnessed.
The religious movement has been more prone to "role reversal" because, by and large, women have been more easily manipulated. Even in the apostolic movement, I have witnessed men being muzzled while women are allowed to be more vocal. True that it is the females who generally first get into "church"; then, their children; and finally, their husbands. Because many fellowships have very few male members, and less communion among themselves, men have matured very slowly in the things of God. Males HAVE been more dominant in the heirarchy, and women are serving THEM (the males in positions of authority) under the color of submission.
In Mexico, as in many Third-World countries, most of the jobs are given to women; they are fast becoming the principal breadwinners. Women are also given "equal status" in the communication networks: testifying that the "world" has a greater sense of equality and righteousness than the Church. Especially in the news media, we can see a man and woman working side-by-side; subtly intimating equality of the sexes and the intimacy of husband and wife (to be more politically correct, maybe I should have said wife and husband).
Now the facade has been discarded, and this spirit is trying to force itself into the Church. It is unfortunate, in the eyes of this preacher, that many of our Sisters have been taken in by this movement. It is even more unfortunate that my Brothers, even some in the Ministry, have also partaken of this fruit.

It's the Gospel, Church!
Brother Villa
RIGHT ON, BROTHER!

IN other words - AMEN!

You have hit the nail right on the head, it is something I have hinted at-that a large part of this infiltration of this spirit of "equality" among genders...that is responsible for any semblance of the female gender being more dominant in positions that should be more MALE dominant...AND one other accurate point made is :
Because many fellowships have very few male members, and less communion among themselves, men have matured very slowly in the things of God.
Now THIS comment is more along the lines of what I was looking for in the thread I started in the Pastor department of which no MEN have commented on...(called "leave the 99?"..but this is part of the problem., the MEN that are in leadership, do not always have the best interests of other men members there..such as seeing as to their spiritual condition; more men should be allowed AND HELPED..to grow into leadership positions by the men (pastor, ministers) already present.
It may even be a question of jealousy (yes it happens) of those in leadership wanting to retain their positions.
It could be any of umpteen reasons.. :shrug:

[Single4ASeason]

Thank you very much. I was going to post something very similar. We live in an age where it is not uncommon for men to have to work 50-60 hours a week. Lots of men have to work on Sunday now when they didn't have to in the past. We still very much believe that women should stay at home instead of working and then fault the men for not having the time to do more at church because of having to work lots of hours. I wonder how many of these women Sunday school teachers, music directors, etc., even have full time jobs.
My church runs about 70. All of the Sunday School teachers are women. And they all have full-time jobs. The music director is also one of the Sunday School teachers. The song leader is male, and the Sunday School superintendant is male. And there are two other male musicians. The youth pastor is a man.

There are a few ministers in the church who are male.

Our church is made up mostly of women. (Might be why I'm still single!) (ha)

But I don't feel that it has anything to do with working full-time jobs. I work full-time in a town that is an hour away from where I live. And I am a student at night. But I still teach a Singles class.

Pamela

[FreeinHim]

Why are most of the posts in the "mens" room by ladies ? No offense , but what is the point of having it ? Hey , thnks for the imput , but now shew !!!

[essaias]

It seems to me that the entire society has been "effeminised" to a certain extent. And it also seems to me that religion has become effeminate in many ways. And yes, apostolic churches have become effeminised. Notice I say "effeminised" and not "feminised". An effeminate church could still theoretically be all male.

What is effeminisation? To put it bluntly, it is something you might call "Babylonian castration". It is a neutering of the male influence and qualities.

Consider the following -

1. We often hear jokes - in church and out of church - about how the man is the king of his castle, except when the missus is around. Funny, funny, hahah, we all know it isn't "really" that bad... but the jokes are still there. Now, imagine cracking a joke like that 100 years ago? Most people probably wouldn't have got the punch line.

2. Music 100 plus years ago was primarily thought-directed. By this I mean the dominant element in the music was the "idea" being put forward by the lyrics. Nowadays, music is mostly dominated by the "feel" of the melody or rhythym or harmony.

3. Music today is almost 90 percent "love songs". 100 years ago, although they had love songs, they weren't nearly as common as today.

4. People emphasise that a man of God should be "sensitive" to the Spirit, whereas in the past it was often more apropos to say a man of God should be "empowered" or "led" by Lord's spirit. The emphasis is subtle, but from following one's King to being "sensitive".

5. Hymns and spiritual songs have gotten a lot more - well, "mushy". Kind of a "Oh, I'm just in LOVE with Jesus" type of thing, a lot more so than they used to be. And the love expressed back then was done a little differently. Nowadays it seems like a lot of songs are "Jesus is my boyfriend" type, rather than "Jesus is the Hero I follow into death and beyond" type of thing.

6. Men have completely apostasized from their God-gieven responsibilities in the area of child training. The women are expected to "handle the kids". Who teaches most children's Sunday school classes? Usually women. Whereas the raising and training of boys is best done by Fathers. (Not saying mothers are not needed, they are! But a boy can only look up to a man for a role model of how to be a man.)

7. Historically, women have been characterised as being more liable to being carried away by passions, whereas men were thought of as being predominantly directed by intentions and rationalities. Now, however, look for example at PRomise Keepers - where men are encouraged to explore the "phallic" side of their being, where music is typical effeminate charismatic nonsense, etc etc. This is a clear sign that PK is an effeminising movement. But its popularity shows that many men have been effeminised.

Now, this is not to say the effeminisation of society or of the church is total, it isn't. But it is much more effeminate than it used to be.

And it don't have anything to do with women preachers! :)

peace-

[Bro_rod]

Not to get anyone up set, Bbbbut I have been in Churches where the Wife Had more say in what went on in the Church, influence that is than what she should have.
Over Asst Pastors , Elders anyone.
You can pretty well tell when a church is run by the wife.

Sorry but truth is truth.
And there is not a Bible based Call for a woman to Pastor.
Women have a great call of God,there are a lot they can do.
But they can not fit the calling laid out in the word to pastor,preach.

I do not aplogize but I do not attend services preached by a woman.
It is like going to a baptise church or a catholic church Those men can preach but they are not lead of God.

In loove oof Truth
Bro Rod Johnson

[ddc101]

If what you all are saying would be true and I think its false.Then what you are in actuality saying is that then brothers in the church are a bunch of whimps who let their wives run over them.I disagree with you all.I know many apostolic men and their wives surely do not run them or the church.Not the church as I know it.Oh maybe some half stepping folks but not the church of the living God.So watch what you say.You just may be including yourself.I in fact think the church is in tip top form.I know Brothers and Sisters who are out winning the lost not just stopping to criticize. :flame:

[SimoneDeLorean]

In most of the churches I have attended in my life, women were in the majority.

Why? Well, for one thing, there are more women than men.
For another, with most people I have known; the women seem more concerned about themselves spiritually and were more amenable to churchgoing.

There is a lack of real male role models in the United States, not just in churches.

Men need to get up, take their families to church, and be the spiritual leader of the home.
Unfortunately, oftentimes the wife has to assume that role, along with several others than men are supposed to do.

I noticed at my son's softball league, most of the "coaches" were women.

This would have been unheard-of a generation or so ago. But the single-parent home is very common now, unfortunately.
It's very sad.

[jesusonly238]

In the house church I am a minister in, we have only 4 men and 6 women. The men have their roles in the Church leadership, as the sisters do as well. The key is all doing what they should do for the kingdom.
As a member, I see nothing wrong with teaching a Sunday School or even working in a nursery. Traditionally a female job, I see a need, and need to step in. I work anywhere from 40-50 hours a week, roughly. But, I still pick up saints for church from work to their house to church, and help my Pastor out in any way I can.
Men, if there is a need, do not say it is a woman's job. Do the work in Jesus!

[Perthman]

1 I beleive we should all get involved in the work of God where He has put us , like someone posted , there is work for us all to do, if not particular activities, then our own personal witnessing for Christ is doing our part also............. 2 The world may have traditionally looked at men as being tough, and not showing feeling ,or being aloof even in his family. But read the old testament,Jacob and Esau's reconciliation, Joseph, when united with his eleven brothers David, and Jonathon's friendship, and it continues, they wept sore, Even in Israel's backslidden state it was said that the Kings of Israel were merciful kings. We do not go by feelings, but there are times when God may touch you, and what are you going to do, keep a stiff upper lip because men don't get emotional we must not resist His Spirit, So there are the two different instances, there's the natural affection for family members, and also the spiritual. But men who don't cry when they lose a loved one,or they hold it in , and beleive me it takes a lot of effort to do that .become emotional cripples . In the spiritual if we resist the Spirit of God we're being stiffnecked. There's nothing wrong with a man who has a sensitive nature if he lets God have His way with him.The same goes with a bold confident man. The world may look at men who display the fruits of the Spirit as weak ,or effeminate sometimes; but we don't. It might look a little like emotionalism to those who are not pentecostal when they enter a pentecostal church, but that is nothing new.God may move by His Spirit, and there may not a be a dry eye in the place, unless your trying to resist. Nothing effeminate about that.

What I've written isn't what brother Ballard was referring to when he started this thread , but it is relevant.

[Apostolicdad]

(not patting myself on the back) where i attend church its not a woman that cleans the floors or anything, i help my assist pastor to clean the church to take some load off of him, so give me my apron and duster and let me go at it:spin:

[tufluv]

(not patting myself on the back) where i attend church its not a woman that cleans the floors or anything, i help my assist pastor to clean the church to take some load off of him, so give me my apron and duster and let me go at it:spin:
LOL!
Amen!
You go brother! :D