Go to the back of the bus??

[ThirdGeneration]

John- You said "On issues regarding ladies dress I would prefer that these be discussed in the ladies forum."

But you also said at the old Cafe skirt thread, "The standards that are taught by the UPCI and others weren't invented to make rules, they were based upon Godly Convictions held by Godly, praying men."

If the standards are MAN- made as you suggest, then why in the world should they be discussed in the ladies forum?

Please don't rob us of the opportunity to interact with ministers and brothers when discussing an aspect of our faith that touches every part of our lives.

And generally speaking, most women (although we have some exceptional women at the Cafe) have much more limited knowledge of God's Word.

So I want want nothing to do with the ladies' forum. If I want to talk to just ladies, I can go to church. But generally speaking, women can't freely talk to men or ministers the way we have been able to at the Cafe.

Please, let's keep our level of playing field!

[Goodshepherd]

Third said:
"And generally speaking, most women (although we have some exceptional women at the Cafe) have much more limited knowledge of God's Word.

Goodshepherd:
A person's knowledge of God is based on how much they study the word, and by how much they seek his revelation.

[BroRutledge]

Brother John

Keep it the way it is. You are doing the right thing and this is not a "GO TO THE BACK OF THE BUS" situation. Skirts, dresses, hair issues need to get off the bus and anybody that does not like to talk to the ladies in the special place for our precious women of faith that you have provided, and anybody who does not agree with the wonderful way that you have put this new cafe together can get off the bus too.

We can discuss anything that is in the women only or preachers only threads with the women and with the preachers freely in the general threads.

We all are able to read in all the threads so I see no problem at all. And even though I am sick of hair, skirt, and dress issues and although I know as well as anybody that we have exausted the standard subjects in the GNC I will continue to allow these discussions on the GNC and may even give my viewpoint from time to time which may or may not be pleasing to all.

Why revive that stinking dead horse that wants to occupy so much of our time? We have many things to discuss that will take us somewhere. These standard issues should be dealt with in the local assembly with pastor and non-rebellious saints who want to please God. Why keep going in the same old circle? It appears to me that somebody needs to go to her pastor and ask him what he wants her to do and just do it.

That will settle it.

God bless
BroRutledge

[witness4jesus]

Third, I cannot believe that you of all people said that. :eek: There are some women who have quite a bit of knowledge, but maybe they prefer to let their husbands look smarter. ;) Listening to Verbal Bean's Scummy Pot and his comment about the cutting of hair, I could not help but wonder what he would feel about our discussions on standards. The only standard should be a biblical standard. Nothing more, nothing less. While some of the standards we hold may not be heaven or hell issues so to speak, I do believe firmly that looking like we fit in is not the answer. The truth is, and few want to realize this, particularly with women's lib, but God does view women differently than He does men. He has a different purpose and design for them. It is evident all throughout the Bible, but our modern minds reject it, because it doesn't fit in with today's society. You use a example of modern civil rights to question something of a religious nature. Is our sense of what is right and wrong in the kingdom of God compared to secular society? Come on. I just want to go on record again as saying I do not see our godly standards of dress as any burden. I do it to please God. I do not presume that I am holy because of my dress, but I dress this way because of the holiness of Christ which is in my life. sis pam

[John Atkinson]

Actually, the men are at the back of the bus, you will notice that I did not create a special area for men only. I created a special area for ladies in deference to them, knowing that there are some areas where a lady can minister to a lady far better than a man, even a preacherman can.

There are topics that our ladies should be able to discuss without interference or comment from the men.

Likewise the ministers also, there are topics relevent to the ministry that it is nice to have a place to discuss things without interference or comments from people who are not in the ministry.

Everyone is free to meet and discuss anything within the bounds of social decorum and the GNC rules in the Open Café. Even if the topic is being discussed in the ladies are or the minister's area.

I haven't segregated us, I have merely widened our options and made the cafe attractive to a more diverse audience, as there will be ladies who will join us now because there is a place to talk to other ladies. And preachers who will feel more comfortable speaking to other preachers, who did not feel comfortable posting with the way it was out of good ministerial ethics.

[ThirdGeneration]

Bro. Rutlege- Already been there and done that. The counsel more than 20 years ago was to stay in the church no matter how differently I felt about the side issues that were not specifically commanded in Scripture.

The good thing about such tolerance is that we have never had the great fall out with minister's kids that you have spoken of in other posts.

The bad thing about such a policy, is that as the decades have passed, we are losing more young people since non-conformance with status quo while not labeled as sinful, does cut them off from participating in any ministries including choir and music. Usually this leads to isolation for a young person that is not yet spiritually strong enough to stand on their own two feet.

Thus, the policy of tolerance (as the Scripture teaches) is that we have a very large, growing assembly of believers. However, the inability to move beyond old traditions has absolutely cost us precious children that were born in our assembly and from what I have seen; assemblies everywhere. IMO

So I speak.....

Witness, I am aware of very few couples at the Cafe. Trust me- my husband gets the car keys when we are in the same vehicle.

John- I applaud all the effort you have put into the Cafe, despite my reservations about the seating arrangements.

Btw- I understand about professional ethics. However, there is NO counsel involved when posters discuss Scripture. Counsel is when the poster says "this is exactly what YOU should do" rather than saying, "this is how I interpret that particular Scripture." IMO

Now if you excuse me, I have to go bake some cookies and clean some toilets.....

[ddc101]

Sister Third,
I had hoped you would post over on the ladies threads.I am so sorry you see them as segregation.I do not.In fact I see them as a way for women to air their feelings with other women about things that are not relevent to speak to men about.So when you post there and speak to me you are speaking to a minister as well as a lady who is a saint as well.I know more women who have depth in the word than you are giving credit for.In fact great was the company of women who followed Jesus and ministered to him.And it is still such today.It is a noble thing for a woman to be a woman of the Word and of the Spirit.lv sis.c

[drummerboy_dave]

Regarding this subject, I am leaning the same direction as Third.

I will admit that I haven't been through the other forums, yet. There may not even be anything to be concerned with, but by seperating the "preachers" and "the ladies" from the rest of the membership, it seems as if there is an effort being made, although I'm sure it's not intentional, to create "social classes" between members. Then, by allowing members to view, but not post, seems to aggrevate the irritataion, in my opinion.

Certainly, there were many, many topics that I have read, and not posted in, simply because I was either, unqualified to speak on it or uninterested. But, to not be given the opportunity to speak in a thread, because of my gender or the calling of God on my life, seems to paralell discrimination.

My bible has lead me to believe, that we are all equal members, of the body.

[ddc101]

Drummerboy I disagree with you on this one.Some pastors will never get on a board with other pastors saints due to the disharmony it causes.Maybe this is not your idea of church government but nevertheless it exists.Also what would you and I have in common discussing things like what happened at ladies conferences or the methods I use to homeschool my children.Also many men do not like the idea of their wives getting on the internet talking to men about whatever and vice versa.My husband has no problem with it but at least the ladies have an option.I like it.In fact Sis.Foreverblessed is about to start a thread that is going to be a study for ladies and i am excited about maybe using it for my ladies group at church because I teach the ladies.You however could read it but what ladies ministry do you lead that you could teach it to? Get the general idea? sis.c

[nytxn1971]

I'm sick of 'standards' discussions... There is so much more to this walk than 'standards'.

[Sandy]

That is a good point Bro. Dave.

A few years ago I was on a forum that also did this same thing too. But they also would not allow any women on there either as I recall. :-)

My husband and I have pastored, and are doing so now as well, although the group is very small yet. But then the community I live in is also very small too. :-) But I don't feel led to join in asking permission to post there none the less. Although I don't know exactly why. Maybe it is because it does appear to be segregating those that are apprently anointed in leadership capacities from the rest of the body from discussing issues that appear to be things that only the leadership would have real revelation from God regarding. Not that this is the heartfelt reason for doing it, or is even true. But for some reason, it just doesn't set well with me, and since it doesn't, I cannot in good conscience become a part of it as long as I feel this way about it.
Not that I am right about this either. It is just my feelings about it at this time. Maybe I would feel differently if you had a place where everyone that doesn't proclaim to be in one of those ministry gifts have a place where they could post, discussing subjects on their heart, not allowing any of the ministers to post there. :-)

Although we could all claim to be teachers, since the scripture does say, I believe, all are apt to teach. :-)

As for the ladies area. I don't know how I feel about that. There are issues that I would not want to discuss with other men, just as there are issues that men would not desire to discuss with women. but I do believe in all fairness you should have a place for men if you are going to have one for the women too.

But then I am not running this place am I? :-) So it is really not for me to say, other than giving my opinion.

[John Atkinson]

The open discussion are is still the level playing field that it always was. That has not changed.

This is no different than a local church.

There are elders or ministers meetings where peopel discuss things relevent to their callling.

And there are ladies group meetings where ladies discuss things that are of no interest whatsoever to the majority of men.

I view this as a broadening of horizons, and something that will draw people.

As it stands I know ministers who will delight in the ministers forum, who would not join in conversations in the open forum.

The playing field is still level, and there is no implication that anyone is better than anyone else.

All the threads are viewable. This may sound harsh, but there are times when ministers are speaking that saints have no business butting in.

Likewise when ladies are discussing ladylike things, men need to just stay out.

If anyone has a comment on what is being discussed, you are free to state it in the open forums, where it won't break the flow of the conversation in the private forums.

[light]

Originally posted by nytxn1971
I'm sick of 'standards' discussions... There is so much more to this walk than 'standards'.


Yes Ron let's talk about something else.

How about lets talk about how to enter the Kingdom Of God?

#1What steps are nessary?

#2What happens if I can't follow each step?(assuming you believe in more than one step)

#3 What do you believe will happen here? Im on my death bed and can't be moved and I die. Oh I wasn't baptised in Jesus Name.

[nightwatchman]

Mark16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Here's your answer brother.......:flame:

[John Atkinson]

#1What steps are nessary?

Believe the Gospel, Repent from Sin, Be Baptized, i.e.fully immersed in water, in Jesus Name, i.e. the NAME is spoken by the one baptizing, not on the authority of in a bunch of titles, Recieve the Holy Ghost, in which case you WILL speak in tongues, if you didn't you didn't get it.

Then live a holy life eschewing sin and the world and worldliness and being led of the Spirit-the Holy Ghost that was received.

#2What happens if I can't follow each step?(assuming you believe in more than one step)

When God say's go jump in a lake, he isn't talking Lake Livingston or Lake Michighan. That is why we are so active in trying to convince people of point #1 above.

#3 What do you believe will happen here? Im on my death bed and can't be moved and I die. Oh I wasn't baptised in Jesus Name.

The bad news is: "Sorry old son. You didn't make it"

If someone can be saved without baptism in Jesus name on their deathbed than they can be saved without baptism at any point in their life. In which case the trinitarians are correct and we Apostolics are all wrong.

Sorry, but the way I read the scriptures is, no baptism=no salvation=no heaven. Period

Thus my advice is to pray REAL hard that God will raise you up enough to get to the water.

[Sandy]

Well either that or let someone carry you down to the river anyway. Whats the difference since you are almost dead anyway, whether you die in bed or while you are in the river, speaking in tongues and getting saved, is the way I look at it. :D

[servant]

:bow: Angels bow before Him, heaven and earth adore Him, what a Mighty God we serve!

I'm just so proud to be here on the new and improved GNC!!!

I love it!

God bless,

Serv :)

[foreverblessed]

Good to see you serv, I wondered where you were!

[light]

Br. John said:
The bad news is: "Sorry old son. You didn't make it"

If someone can be saved without baptism in Jesus name on their deathbed than they can be saved without baptism at any point in their life. In which case the trinitarians are correct and we Apostolics are all wrong.

Sorry, but the way I read the scriptures is, no baptism=no salvation=no heaven. Period

Thus my advice is to pray REAL hard that God will raise you up enough to get to the water.

.Yes Br. John you are right. I was trying to get Ron(nytxn1971) to answer these questions. Ive seen some very questionable posts on other boards and thats the reason for the questions and the way they are worded.

Maybe we can get him to give us the answers after his honeymoon.


Acts 2:38 Isa.9:6

[witness4jesus]

Third, I am afraid you missed my point about women and knowledge. Maybe they know more than you give them credit for. I admit that there have been times I have stuck out at church. But there were plenty of women in the church that I went to that wanted to learn about the Bible. Believe it or not, most of the people that signed up for our Bible college were women.

At the same time, there are plenty of times I just want to talk to a woman, and not to a man. About ladies' stuff. About serving God as a woman.

Most of the men of my former church, however, did not seem as geared toward "men's conferences", "men's meetings" as the ladies. I think the ladies were just so anxious for the opportunity to get together with other ladies. They spend so much time taking care of their families, it could leave some women drained, and so they looked forward to the ladies meetings, etc.

But I also have a question for BROTHER ATKINSON. I seem not to be able to post to the Ladies Discussion Board, though I have subscribed to it. Is there a reason for that?

sis pam

[survivor4christ]

I don't see a problem with the new setup.

This makes ministry more pointed and relevant.

In the ladies forum, what if a sister had an issue with her husband, he was cheating, or he was bisexual, or something very personal.

There is a difference between how a man would minister to that need and the way a woman would. Because a woman knows what a woman goes through, they are better equipped to minister to each others needs.

Ministers need this also.

I think it is wonderful that we all will still be able to see the discussions.

This is a step in the right direction.

God bless you all
Sis. Wenona

[Sandy]

Well, yes, I did interrupt. Sorry Bro.

But I did think my answer was a good pracitical reasonable answer none the less, in light of the fact that if you are going to die anyway, much better to die and go to be with the Lord than to die and go be with that other person IMHO. Right? And since repentance consists of our willing to die, taking up our cross and following after Jesus (Mt. 10:38-39), what better way to go?

[truemessianic]

Originally posted by nytxn1971
I'm sick of 'standards' discussions... There is so much more to this walk than 'standards'.
Standards are the basis for our walk with Messiah in this world, as pertaining to our witness. We show ourselves to be holy both in attitude and appearance.
But, as for all the talk about standards, I agree in a way. We are to go on to the greater works, and not return to our former basics. We are to move forward. Everyone has standards to abide by according to the Bible. That is basic. The Bible is clear on standards.
What we need to do is just go on to the more maturing works.
Standards are vitally important, but should not be the only thing we thrive on.

[witness4jesus]

Our standard should be the Bible standard.
If it is in the Bible, then we should do it.
If it is not, then it should not be doctrine.

Its that simple.

There are standards for which it does not say,
"thou shalt not" but there are sound Godly principles
to back them up.

But we do need to beware that our dress does not
become our religion. Our dress needs to be a
reflection of what is on the inside.

sis pam

[drummerboy_dave]

I'd like to get back to, what Third, so aptly described as "the seating arrangements".

With due respect given, to admin, the mods, the ministry, and the ladies, I humbly disagree, that dividing the GNC into any "subgroups" is a step in the right direction. I'm sure, that my own "personal esteem issues" are driving this, but I must air my feelings, because The GNC has become, a part of my life.

Over the many months I have spent here, I have grown to love the GNC and appreciate all of it's members. It has become my home on the web, for well over a year now. I have grown attatched to the GNC, and so many of the brothers and sisters who fellowship here. It is difficult to explain the phenominon that exhists. While none of us, share the same views on everything, I have always felt a genuine kinship among us. While there has been many a scuffle, I think that for the most part, our love and respect for one another, has been able to shine through it all.

We have discussed innumerable topics, here. None, more often than --- well, I won't say it.

I have grown angy sometimes, and many nights, weary. I've been speechless, discouraged, and frustrated. I've also, been blessed, educated, encouraged, and maybe a time or two, appreciated.

I have opened my heart here, so many times, that I'm not afraid to tell you now, that this is probably one of the few places outside my home, where I feel my voice, can really be heard.

The bible says, that a house be divided against itself, can not stand. I certainly, do not, wish to threaten this curse, upon the good foundation that has been established here at the GNC, but I do wonder if it has been considered. Also, I do not see any of the merits, mentioned heretofore, as out-weighing the disunity that segregating the group, illudes to.

Up until now, we have all had an equal voice to share our hearts and our thoughts with. It is my heartfelt opinion, that our voices can not remain equal, if we are divided into classes.

[ThirdGeneration]

Drummerboy Dave- I don't want to scare you, but a study not too long ago found that the American bathroom is usually cleaner than the kitchen. The handle on your refrigerator door probably has a host of nasty microbes on it!!

And no- I am not posting that on the women's thread. In part because there really are not "women's issues" and "men's issues."

We have single moms here and we have single dads. The old idea of masculinity as uninvolved with the kids is no longer reality (and our children are better for it).

What effects our sisters may be the very thing one of the brothers has never figuered out about his wife. When a brother shares a thought, we may recognize something about our husbands, fathers, or brothers, etc.

When a sister says that life is tough right now..... I think there are some brothers on the Cafe that are going to pray for her and might want to say that.

As far as wanting to share deep personal feelings with other sisters as a poster suggested; this public domain is not the place. Private email between individuals would be far more fitting.

And I understand what you are saying Drummerboy Dave about a community that we have had here (even in our community disagreements).....

But we had a community precisely because we could disagree and share our hearts and the Scripture as we saw it.

For the most part, we (especially women) have not had the opportunity to fellowship and speak of the Word of God with others that loved His Word as much as many of us do.

I know that this is also true for some of my brothers on this board. I suspect that if you are not a "pulpit minister" there are not too many people to sit around and talk about the Word of God (And I mean more than scratch the surface).

The diversity of thought has been great for stirring the pot. Our view point, often reflecting our own fellowships or particualar regions of the country; has sometimes had to shift as God's Word has been presented in a way that shows more light.

Collectively, we have uncovered more ideas than anyone of us, would alone.

Being able to freely post with ministers has been truly an amazing and gratifying part of the exprerience. They have indeed sharpened us; but I am equally certain that we sharpened them. Because unlike a congregation that does not talk back (I certainly do not at my church) we have been free to express ourselves here.

I have heard the argument that some ministers are uncomfortable posting with other pastor's sheep. PLEASE!!!! How egotistical.

If they really think that is a problem, why say they are a minister? And for goodness sake, aren't there already a ton of internet boards for ministers only?

I am sorry! This is not the local church. Thank God!!! That is why I was here.

How sad if I had not had the opportunity to interact with Alvear, Adoniyah, Groce, Mfblume, Bro Rutledge, Ddc, Pastorb, Litekeep, Servant, Stmatt, Sandy, Faithchild and Bill aka Apostolic Man, etc.

So why is it that the ministers need to be able to discuss things without the peanut gallery posting too? You know, they just might learn something from us, if they chose to listen!

And, interestingly enough; the minister's discusion that presently has the most posts is one that really has nothing to do with ministers in particular.

I certainly have learned from the ministers that have posted. I have learned much from those that do not have "pulpit ministries" as well.

And in truth, the posters that have disagreed with me, have probably done the most for me since they cause me to dig deeper into the Word of God.

My life has been enriched because of the the diversity of posters at the cafe.

How boring the Cafe will become if the seating arrangements stagnate; if we are not allowed to post freely as the topic arises; and we are not allowed to freely interact with all posters.

Oh sure there is the general forum.... But it doesn't feel the same knowing the seating arrangments.

The thing about the internet is, you do not have to read the standard threads if they bore you and you are sick of them; you do not have to make a lengthy response to a poster who addresses you; you do not have to post; but in the past, you always had to think!

I will be interested to see where the ministers I respect, post. I am not so sure that I plan to stay on this bus.

Please don't all rush to show me the door!

[BroRutledge]

I see no problem with the forward direction of the GNC, and as far as the door goes we are all free to use it any time we wish to come or to go.

I feel that I will do most of my posting in the general posting areas, and I am quite confident that other ministers will do the same. I would think that the ladies will spend most of their time in the general discussion threads also. Whatever we discuss in the rooms for ministers only or ladies only can be freely seen by everybody in the GNC

If you want to discuss something that is being discussed in the ministers only or ladies only threads, just open up a thread with the same subject that you find being discussed there and we will all join in the discussion. The ministers and all ladies and men in the GNC are still part of the general discussions as much as ever, and nobody is trying to be higher than anybody else.

For now we will keep it as it is. If it doesn't seem to be the best way to go we can change things later to make it better.

We have provided you with a good seat to sit in where you can see everything and talk to everybody on the bus. We are not all going to sit in the same seat all the time. Enjoy your ride and feel free to lean forward, backward, or to the side and discuss anything with anybody at any time on this beautiful new bus that is ready to take a long and wonderful journey.

We want you to stay with us and enjoy the trip.

God bless
BroRutledge

[witness4jesus]

Third:
In part because there really are not "women's issues" and "men's issues."

Witness4Jesus:
So you are saying that everything that pertains to the life of a woman could pertain to the life of a man. As a woman approaching a certain age and facing certain things, I would disagree. There are things I would discuss with the women here that I certainly would not want to discuss with the men or have them involved in.

I have to ask those of you who feel women are being segregated whether they believe men and women are now perfectly equal in every way and that there is no division of roles in God? I also would ask, whether you, in your local assemblies, object to ladies' meetings, conferences, etc. as well as men's meetings.

The Bible and modern societies views of men's/women's roles do not agree. The Bible clearly shows that God has different purposes, designs, roles for men and for women. The very fact that he made us different shows something. Men may interact with children, and even be single parents, but they can never be a mother. If you are saying that men bond with children in exactly the same manner women do, I would have to disagree.

Men and women think differently, have different emotions, and their modus operandi in life is different, and to fail to see the difference, I believe, is to fail to see the definitions God gave us.

sis pam

[John Atkinson]

drummer, third. I understand where you are coming from, I don't think you get where we are coming from.

We have expanded, not taken away from. How would it be different if I just opened up a minister's only discussion board on another site? I thought about it you know.

Or a ladies only discussion board on another site? All I have done is intergrate it into one instead of seperating it. That way we only have to buy one license for the board software instead of three, and we don't dilute the membership by spreading it accross three boards.

Try to look at it from that veiwpoint. We are going to grow. We are not stagnating.

What ya'll aren't hearing is that nothing has changed. The open Area is as open as it ever was. And if you look at it, the same interaction is still going on in the open area. It has not changed, and that is where the majority of the posting is going on.

In short you folks are overeacting to a misperception of what is going on. I am sorry, but this is the way it is, and the way will stay until we decide otherwise.

Discussing this further will be fruitless.

Also, if you remember a post on the topic, I did state that if iether the ladies forums or the ministers forums became cliques to the exclusion of the open discussions, that we would return to the old structure.

Please try and look at it as three seperate discussion boards on the same page. I hope that you folks hang in here with us.

Third, you and I will never see eye to eye on certain things, but I value you and want you here. Stick it out with us and see how it turns out.

[ThirdGeneration]

BroRutledge- You're the driver!

I think I will just sit back, relax, pour myself a drink (coca cola) and see where the bus is headed.

I now understand that there are some posters that may not have the same fellowship opportunities in their churches that I do in mine. So, maybe being able to talk just among women is a big deal.

And the ministers that would choose to isolate themselves, probably don't have much to contribute anyway!


John- Never say never! God is not finished with either one of us....

[BroRutledge]

Glad to have you here sis Third.

Hang in here with us, I am sure that many good things are up the road ahead for us all.

God bless
Bro Rutledge

[ThirdGeneration]

Witness- Everything that affects women, affects the men that love them; rather we are speaking of husbands, fathers, brothers or sons.

I personally could not discuss any issues in cyberspace (for all to see), that I would not be comfortable discussing with a brother directly. But that is just is just me.

Did God assign particular gender roles? Well yes, of course! When was the last time you ever heard of a man giving birth to a baby?

Do I object to women's meetings in local churches? No. Of course not. Would it surprise you to know that I have even been spotted at the women's only prayer meetings?

The point that I tried to express; was that while I could find hundreds of Pentecostal women to talk to right at home, I would be hard pressed to carry on an in depth Biblical discussion with very many of them and certainly nothing as exciting and challenging as the Cafe.

I never said that fathers and mothers serve the same purpose in their children's lives. I think Foreverblessed's recent post on the ladies forum spoke volumes about one of the critical areas in which fathers greatly influence and affect their daughter's lives.

I also believe that fathers are generally more interested in their children today or at the very least, seem to have more hands on time with their children than in the decades past. Thus, threads about parenting are probably of interest to some fathers also.

Witness, I do agree that men and women are different. VIva la difference!

[foreverblessed]

Third,

I think some Fathers have been interested in the everyday life of their children for some time now.
I am positive that you have had a wonderful Father who valued your opinions and you as a child/women. It shows in your self confidence. There has been more involvement of Fathers in childrens' lives in more recent times. I think that it is wonderful for the children of today.

I had a Father who was very involved, very interested in our thoughts, feelings, and encouraged each of his four daughters to reach for the potential that God had given them. I was his baby, so I was spoiled too much, but I have to admire the careers, accomplishments of my olders sisters. They are very self assured and I have to say that it stems from their strong relationship with their Father.
Dad was a man that listened to what we had to say, and built up our confidence that what we had to say was worth something.

Today, I am just as comfortable (if not more) sitting among a group of males in conversation.
I grew up listening to preachers sitting at our dining room table discussing everything that preachers talk about. I wouldn't take anything for those memories. I learned so much from the wisdom that they shared.
The Cafe is the closest I have come to that fellowship with ministers, and others that share the Word of God and their thoughts.

I have come to love the Cafe, and although I might not post in all threads, doesn't mean that I don't read them and learn and grow from their wisdom.

While I am enjoying the topics on the women's forum, I don't have a problem with men being able to reply, or give their encouragement or opinions. In fact I would value them. JMO

[ThirdGeneration]

Bro. John! posted in announcements:

"Well, we but it to a vote and decided to open all the forums for posting.

The minister's forum is still there, and will be used for ministry related threads, but is open to anyone for posting.

The ladies forum likewise, will still be moderated by ddc and will focus on Ladies discusions, but will be open for all to post in.

The vote, as well as a couple of persuasive arguments caused me to rethink the "private posting" area concept."

WOW! The seating arrangements feel more comfortable all ready.....

I think I will get another coke and ponder; I might even check out the ladies section too since all are welcome.

Of course it will take a couragous brother to post there! But I am confident that this board has couragous posters.

Thank you Bro. John and Bro. Rutledge.

[ThirdGeneration]

Foreverblessed- I always enjoy your posts but I am not so sure what you mean by the problem thinking women are smarter.....

I hope no one thought that I was suggesting that women aren't smart! My only contention was that too many have not taken a great interest in Scripture.

I truly cannot imagine anyone that I have ever met that was not smarter than me in some area. And of course there are many that are just plain smarter than me all the way around!

[ddc101]

Sister Third,
Now might be a good time to pray about that call.No its not that many have not taken a great interest in scripture.Not everyone feels the tug like those who are called to do something specific.
Its not just the sisters.Look around and see there are alot of brothers in church who do not feel the need to study as much as those who are active in ministries.Not everyone has the same call and gifts.I am one to do deep research.My husband is more doctrinally geared.He would rather preach a message on christian living and I am always happier to share my latest research and teach a bible class to older saints who need meat.Now there are times when the Lord shifts gear with Bro.Cooper and he feels to drop his adult lesson and preach a soul stirring evanglistic message.Then there are those who are called to a ministry of prayer and intercession.We all are called to pray but some have the gift of divers tongues.This is the tongues used in intercession.
All of the body may experience this from time to time but these special people almost always walk in this realm.They are not the most smiley people you will ever meet in church.They are usually the serious carrying a deep burden for the people or the pastor.Not everyone prays this much.Usually these folks look arouond them and say...hey...these people don't pray enough.Because they cannot fathom why everyone is not as burdened as them.Its the call and gift of God.Its their ministry chosen by Jesus.lv sis.c

[searching]

Wow, when Sis. Third is happy, everyone is happy! LOL! I am also feeling better about this myself, even though I have been silent about it.

Me...

[foreverblessed]

Third,
I edited that part of my post. I am too tired to explain what I meant. Catch you another time.

[John Atkinson]

Well, I am happy that people are happy.

Whenever I put up a poll asking for everyones opinion, please don't be silent, that is one way we gauge which direction to go. The reason I didn't ask about moving to vBulletin is that it was a technical necessity. We want this to grow, and growth meant losing a system that wasn't up to snuff for that growth.

However, whenever I post a poll or ask for suggestions, don't be silent!

The whole reason we have this thing going is for you!

:D

[Adoniyah]

Third:

Over the many months that we've been here we have shared a lot. I have come to love and respect you greatly. However, if you tell me those cokes are not diet......I am going to rethink. LOL

[servant]

:realmad: (that's Third confined to the "Ladies Only" forum).

Let the "lovefest" begin!!!

Serv :):grumble:

[ThirdGeneration]

Ddc- Everyday....

Adoniyah- What! You don't put sugar in your coffee? Why brother, it must be just that good ole Holy Ghost that makes you so sweet!

Serv- Yeah right! :yeah:

[bill]

Light,

If you deem the commandments of God as COMMANDMENTS and not SUGGESTIONS, then you better find a way to get off your death bed and be baptised in Jesus Name!!!

I do not believe in "death bed" repentance. Before you come to the banks of deaths river, you better make good and sure that you are already saved, born again of the water and of the Spirit. People don't wait until the last minute to buy their plane ticket, just before it takes off for fear they may miss it. Think of this, if you have the money and you're right there paying for the ticket, and the plane takes off, even though you may have had the money, would you make it on the plane if it had already taken off? NO! You better get right with God while there still is strength, and while there still is time.

And besides all that, we do not, and should not, base our doctrine on hypothetical situations. It's what thus saith the Lord.

[bill]

As far as "going back to the back of the bus", I thought that's where they belonged. :yeah:

[Faithchild]

I generally agree with ThirdGen on most things (If I don't she cleans my plow!), but I do think that Bro. John's intentions were honorable in setting up diverse forums. Though it's very indirect, I think the GNC flourishes at the good pleasure of pastors. If they felt that things that should be discussed discreetly were openly damaging the faith of their church members, the GNC could receive a "off-limits for church members" directive. How dare they? Start a thread! I think the original idea gave the Apostolic.Net a little "cover." Of course the fact that all forums can be viewed, in effect, removes that "cover." I have seen forums restricted to ministers only (both posting and viewing) attempted. Nobody uses them. I don't because I already know their tired predictable positions from their tired predictable voting on issues
(Not to mention their tired predictable preaching!)!

[Faithchild]

Bill, don't believe in death bed or late-in-life repentance? I firmly believe Acts 2:38 must be obeyed by EVERYONE, but the parable of the vineyard workers bears out the fact that those that have served the Master, even briefly, will get the same reward. Remember we don't "earn" salvation, it is given to us.

[Adoniyah]

Yeah, I know what you mean Faithchild. The girl has cleaned mine a few times also. She is good at cleaning plows. I've needed mine cleaned a time or two and I can always depend on her to do it. If I were a pastor, I would sure like to have her as one of my saints. She would cause me to pray more and strive even harder to be all that God wanted me to be. :) What a blessing!

On the matter of late-life-death-bed-repentance, as Bill indicated above, I would be a bit suspect in its validity even if they received the Holy Ghost.

Maybe I should talk about this on another thread. There is more to salvation than Acts 2:38.

[bill]

Faithchild,

Let me clarify what I mean. When people are on their deathbed, they are usually too weak and feeble to get up and be baptised in Jesus Name, although I'm sure in the course of the past 2000 years of history, it's happened once or twice. However, everyone has a chance to hear and respond to the gospel while they have strength left in them. Despise not the day of your youth. Say a sinners prayer all you want on your deathbed, but you better find a way to be baptised in Jesus Name too.

[Hnovilla]

Hi Name is Jesus!

Sister Pam: "maybe they do it to make their husbands look smarter". AMEN!
The Apostle Paul wrote, "...ask your own hubands AT HOME..."
If the woman had an unbelieving husband, what better way to whet his curiosity! Or if he was limited in the knowledge of scriptures, why he could go and ask a Minister, or one of the boys in Church...and learn, grow in grace, and come to a fuller knowledge of Him.
I have a sister to wanted to divorce he husband so desperately, but that is precisely the advise she took. Now he is saved, full of the Holy Spirit, and she is the one begging him to go home!
Brother Villa

[ddc101]

Preach it Bro.Villa....sis.c