We talk the talk, but do we walk the walk?

[survivor4christ]

I hear that phrase, "talk the talk, but don't walk the walk" a lot. A few used that phrase to describe me years ago when I fellowshipped in and submitted to denom. teachings (backslid).

It used to bother me a lot, b/c the way I understood the Word, having faith was speaking those things that are not (yet) as though they are (now). So when people tried to pull legalism over my eyes and tell me that I will never be saved or delivered and would never live right...I would quickly refute them with the Word that says,

"..God will perfect that which concerns me..."
"..He that begun a GOOD work in me shall perform that work
until the day or Christ..."
"..the gift of God is w/o repentance..."

They called me arrogant and unsubmissive. And in a way they were right, I refused to submit to teaching that doomed me into a sinner's hell, when I knew that God told me that NO man could pluck me out of His Hands, Ever! I hung on to those promises (still do) like a pit bull. I eventually had to get outta there, b/c I was starving...starving for more truth, more substance, for meat...

But to this day I yet to reconcile that phrase as something that we as believers, justified not by works of the flesh, but by faith in God, I have a hard time accepting that this is something we should taut. It reeks of religious pride.

We should ask ourselves, "Is this saying discouraging to those who may be struggling in their walk with the Lord?" The little faith they have to believe God, in spite of their present circumstances and conditions, for their soul salvation...should we instead encourage them to press on in the Lord? That God's grace is indeed sufficient.."

Let me clarify if what I am asking is still not clear...

Most of the time when someone says talk the talk, but not walk the walk, it is being alleged that someone talks a good Christian walk but is not necessarily living up to that standard. Now I have heard preachers say that they have had to live what they preach, and I agree 110%!

But I also am not naive, and realize the best preachers are nothing but flesh and blood. We (all) have this treasure in an earthen vessel, so that God gets the glory! Preachers mess up, too! Let's just keep them in prayer!

But what my concern is that a weaker brother or sister out there who is already tore up about a situation in his or her own life that does not necessarily line up with what God says. They are getting to where they need to be-slowly but surely-like that vessel of clay on the wheel. They are being molded into the image and confirmity of the Lord Jesus Christ. They have come a LONG way, but are not at the finish line, yet. But God willing, they will, they will finish the race. They may not finish first, but they will endure til the end. The Word of God says that the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

The little legs on the wounded horse in the race will eventually heal and be brought back into proper alignment. That horse will run strong and hard, as at the first. And when she does, ain't no stoppin' her! That saint who everybody mocks and calls an ain't, thinks God cannot use them, they are washed up, tore up from the floor up, God has the ability and the power to raise up a mighty prince/princess of valor out of the fallen saint.

Amen! Halleluyah!!! Glory to God!!!

It is my belief that the same Job comforters who did very little to comfort me in my time of infirmity, and properly disciple an restore me into proper female Christian virtuosity (sp) will, like the brothers of Joseph who threw him in a pit only to have him be their deliverer...the same ones are going to have to come to me one day and I will have the Word of the Lord in my mouth needed for their deliverance, their salvation, their healing.

Lord, just baptize me with more compassion, forgiveness, mercy and love for them when they do!

So, what are you all takes on this phrase? Is it legit to use this phrase? Does anyone see what I am saying here? It is all about how this is perceived to the one(s) this phrase is supposed to be describing. It is not exhortation, encouragement. It is not discipling, it is not restoring a fallen one, it is not edifying. It kind of says, "I have it all together, and you do not. I am a better Christian than you are b/c I do not have those problems...."

No, but more likely the problems with the one(s) who say this type of thing are internal. And those are the problems that are hardest to see and recognize....

Just something to think about...

Love to you all,
Sis. Wenona

[Bro.Steingass]

Sister,

It sounds to me like the people who should be nurturing and feeding you are almost backbiters. I've seen it before. If you don't feel the Love of God there, then go, now, and find Apostolics who will Love and nurture you. Faith, Hope, and Charity, the greatest of these is Charity. Charity is all too often translated as Love. Charity is Love of Humanity. If someone is so cold as to not Love people, then IMHO they are just at Church for the fellowship, not to really Live for the Lord. I've seen this on numerous occasions.

If possible, associate yourself with Loving brothers and sisters.

[tufluv]

SFC:
It kind of says, "I have it all together, and you do not. I am a better Christian than you are b/c I do not have those problems...."

I haven't been where you speak of having been, Sister...as far as people talking that way about me, for I never went back to the trini church, after being backslidden from it for many years. They have few standards, having a 1/2 truth themselves, no goals to attain. I left due to renewed fellowships with the world. Its really the LORD that I left, not any denomiation. SO, GOD allowed me to suffer much dire consequences, and then showed me the TRUE church to come back to, Halleluyah!

As for this phrase, I see nothing altogether wrong or evil about it., maybe perhaps you have that connotation with it, and thats why you dislike it. And, true, I have heard it said in a mean-spirited way, but I ignored it, back many many years ago.
I now see it as a simple statement, saying "What's the deal with you talking about JESUS all the time, (etc.) and you are still doing _ _ _ _ _ _ (fill in the blank)?? The 'world' is always looking to find something to criticize in a professing christian., satan loves to accuse the 'saints'.
And, truly, if someone talks about the goodness of the LORD, goes around quoting the word, spreads the gospel message, or does some ministry for the LORD ( as we all should ) but one's actions speak contrary to what one 'preaches'/witnesses, then THAT is when someone might use that phrase, sure its not edifying, it is said more in a 'critical' nature, but it should also be a 'cue' to one, that something is amiss in one's personal testimony. WE can get mad, OR start examining ourselves., for people do 'watch' us closely, with a critical eye. Its inevitable we may do something in some small way even (temper, gossip?) that someone will hold us accountable for.
You know the LORD does!! HE may even use a person saying that to remind us we are amiss somewhere. Yes, it hurts to be corrected.
Now in Apostolic churches, yes, I know how critical we can be!! :D
As far as towards someone coming back, (knowing WHY they left) or just because they left, it can cause some people to never trust that person again., human nature, I guess, and something that really should not be there. I'm sure GOD is not pleased., but that should also never stop someone who is truly after GOD'S own heart, to fall back further. It takes a strong commitment to GOD alone, that will prevail. Certain people watch for signs of 'fruit' and if its not there, they talk-because GOD expects us to have 'fruits' of repentance, and 'fruits' of HIS spirit., to be 'separate and holy' away from the world of darkness, totally.
THAT is a goal that must be attained.

P.S. Strangely enough, sis, there is a poster I made about a year ago, to use in our youth classroom, that says that very thing, "if you wanna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk" its a very coo-ool poster, shows teens walking down a road pictures of foosteps all over, a bible, and a person saying 'that', I did it in response to my sister wanting me to make it!For the youth (she taught that class) and I just did as she asked...I thought it came out good, its now hanging right next to me in my 'office'..! It has some scriptures on it as well, one is Psalm 119:101 and the other is James 1:22...

[servant]

Sis Wenona,
The bible says that Enoch walked with God. That's the bible's way of saying he had a relationship with God. The bible calls Abraham the friend of God. Jesus told His disciples they were His friends. It's more than what we say and do. It's a relationship with Jesus that counts. Whether anyone else thinks you're right with God or not doesn't matter, as long as you know for yourself that God is pleased with you.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, it's my bedtime,

Serv :)

[stmatthew]

A pastor named Carl Ballestero had several young up and coming preachers in his church and decided to have a revival with these young men as the speakers. Each on at his turn gave a firey sermon on hell and how sinners would burn there forever. At the end of the last night, Bro Ballestero got up and commended the young men for their zeal, but made one comment of critisizom.

"You've preached them into hell, now please give them the way out!!!"

The goal is not to condemn, the goal is to save and heal. SIS W., it seems like those around you wan'ted to just put you in hell, yet you saw in God, dispite their attemps to keep you there, a way out. Thanks be to God that giveth us the victory!!!

[survivor4christ]

I hear ya!

I understand that, when Paul says that while preaching to others, he has to keep himself, lest he finds himself a castaway.

No argument there, total agreement with the Word...

I guess I have personal hangups about 'public' reproof, correction. I believe it stems from an incident that occurred in my dad's church we grew up in. We were baptist, and my great uncle was the pastor. He got in the pulpit and gossipped and ran down everyone! And most of the chuch was family; well, most of the family just took it and moved on. 'Rev.', as he was called, was just like that and no one dared challenge him. Even though he was sort of a pervert himself (I won't air family dirty laundry here; they will never forgive me).

Well, my dad was not the type of person to just take public correction from Rev-from, from his uncle, from anyone-lightly. One day Rev. ran down folks for not paying tithes. My dad to this day does not pay tithes, just doesn't believe in it. I will never forget--I was maybe 6 or 7 years old and sang in the children's choir. After church my dad took off my robe outside of church. Rev and his family lived in their apt. building next door to the church. My dad grabbed a brick and wrapped it in the robe and threw the robe and brick at Rev's door!!! And he was screaming and crying at Rev. I have only seen my dad cry maybe twice or three times my whole life...I was so scared, I started screaming and crying! My dad didn't return to church for a long time after that.

I think about that incident and wonder what was accomplished by the 'man of God' abusing his authority and publicly humiliating my dad like that. My dad-even though he was a college graduate, a veteran, and an active part of politics and community service, had the hardest time finding a teaching job in N.O. for years due to scandal within the N.O. School Board. (I love my dad b/c he is so bold and stands for what he believes in!) I won't get into the scandal here, but my dad was sort of blacklisted from teaching in the N.O. schools most of my childhood! He is now a teacher at Frederick Douglass High in N.O.

Anyway,

Rev. knew of the struggles my dad and our family was having b/c my dad had to swallow his pride often and go to Rev. to ask for money to feed us. But Rev. abused his authority, exploited my dad and publicly humiliated him. Why? Him being a black man, how could he do that not just to another 'brother' but his own nephew like that? I believe God judged him for that; Rev and my sweet Aunt Mary are now gone and the church is run by his son...I just pray that he gets past religion and tradition, learn from the mistakes of his father and go on to perfection and the revelation of who Jesus really is. I already have an aunt who is married to a Pentecostal preacher and is converted to this truth!

Praise God!!!

Who knows why leaders do the things they do? To make themselves seem important in the public's eye? Maybe he ran out of messages to preach so he felt rankin' on his sheep would be a clincher, family at that! But that thing wounded my dad. I think that is part of the reason he pays no tithes to this day. He has apostolic friends, and is seeking after the Lord. He plays the organ for several different churches, is not a member anywhere.

Please keep my dad in your prayers, he is hungry but needs much prayer...

I bring this up b/c preachers, leaders, mentors, those whom God is using to disciple his sheep into the fold need to be VERY careful on how they minister to folks. You never know how much damage you are really causing, even at using a statement many deem as not that hurtful.

In another thread under the minister's section, Elder Adoniyah brought up about this book, "You have not many fathers" by Mark Hanby, who I understand was oneness at one time. That was a very profound book. It talks about the concept of spiritual fathers and the importance of having them. Paul was a spiritual father to Timothy...I cannot recall Paul rebuking Timothy to the point of humiliating him publicly or shaming him, exposing his dirty laundry out in the open...EVER! My Bible says that LOVE, real LOVE, covers a multitude of sins.

I respectfully submit that leaders and the such who believe it is spiritual to run down the sheep-publicly-I wholeheartedly believe need to repent b4 God. I do not believe God wants the sheep to be run down, especially in the public. If reproof or rebuke is needed, take the sheep to the side and privily expound the way of God MORE perfectly to them, as Priscilla and Aquila did to Apollos. He was in error, but was fervent after the Lord and wanted more of God. If P and A had publicly ran down Apollos-I believe he would have never accepted this most precious truth and a revival would have been hindered.

The key here is PRIVILY reproof. Rebuke. Yes, reproof is a welcome thing, and is needed. But take heed to how reproof is given, it will determine whether it is taken to heart and repentance occurs or if rebellion will follow.

It is only the grace of God that I love the Lord as I do. B/c man lets you down every time. Which is why I struggled with the spiritual father concept for a long time, still have a few qualms about it when I see how sheep are treated, the gross error that is so massively being taught, and the deception that is so rampant.

My dad used to sing this song, "I'm so glad that man didn't save me..." I used to love hearing that song, still do. Man lifts you up today, tomorrow they are stoning you.

This is one for my dad! Samuel, I love you so much!!!!

Love, Sis. Wenona

(Disclaimer: I know that Rev and all still involved in the Baptist church that still rejects truth are not of God. I still believe God can lead them into this truth, in that I have seen family come to truth out of the Baptist church. So when I used the terms, 'man of God' and the such, I was speaking in perspective to how these teachers/preachers are viewed by their congregants, not necessarily how I perceive them to be. Peace!)

Thanks, Bros. Burdette and Serv and my Sis. Tufluv!

[Sandy]

That is so sad Sister Wenona. We will pray for your Dad, as it sounds as though he has been very hurt. The scripture that came to mind regarding your Dad Sister is written in Is. 42:3 and also in Mt. 12:20.

I think we all sometimes need to ask ourselves, are we giving reproof thru the love of God to another, or to lift ourselves up above them instead. Because usually that is what someone is doing that does this in the wrong way. And often it is really because they are not confident before God themselves that causes this to happen. I have an idea this uncle had a very big problem in that area.

I had a relative, who is no longer with us, that was constantly talking about other people, especially people in the family, putting them down. I believe the Lord showed me that she did this because of having a big problem with her own inferiorities. Often people do things like this because of having a problem with inferiiorities thesmselves, that we may not ever know about.

[iasparrow]

Sis Wenona,

I can tell you have been through some trib. you are a
SURVIVOR in Christ !!! I am an Apostolic newbee
having grown up in a Lutheran church, completely
different. It has taken me years to adopt to what and
who I really am, I have been searching for a long time.

One of the things I have found since going to an
Apostolic Oneness church is that there are some, as
there are in any church, who judge your walk or your
talk as if to put you under a microscope, but for the
majority - they are "the" most loving, devoted, hard
working, encouraging peeps there is. God has used
their love to win me!

Keep your chin up and walk uprightly, you have alot
you can teach others, such as a newbee like me!!!

Praise Jesus & God Bless You & Your Family,
Love, Sis. Rodgers

[survivor4christ]

Thank you, Sis. If you didn't catch it, my dad's name is Samuel.

I understand having inferiority complexes and all. I still struggle with this. Glory in it as a matter of fact, b/c in my inferiority God is made superior. In my weakness, God is made strong and perfect in my life.

But in the very few cases where God has used me to reprove someone, I have never done so publicly. Ever! And it was my prayer that even if they did not receive the word at the time, that God would soften their hearts and allow His salve to come in and let that Word penetrate their beings. And I prayed that they would take it in the spirit as it was intended, in a spirit of love. I have wept over friends and loved ones who God told me to tell them such and such and I knew they wasn't gonna be thrilled about it, but not only b/c I loved them so much-but b/c I love the Lord more, I could not hold on to the Word from God. He told me whether they would hear or forbear, I had to give it.

So it is kind of puzzling when I see some carelessly, with no love, no prayer, no anointing, no unction, try to reprove someone. And cause a deep bruise in their spirits. In Dr. Hanby's book, he mentions the concept that it is sometimes necessary to 'sheer the sheep.' It goes along the same lines of the vessel of clay in the Potter's Hands, on the wheel being marred beyond recognition. Then God takes that vessel and makes it into something else, a whole other vessel. The pruning of the tree for more fruit.

Hanby goes on to say that if a spiritual father is going to sheer the sheep, by way of instruction of the Lord, then that s. father should have the anointing and means, the grace, to heal the bruise administered to the sheep. Don't break the sheep legs and then cannot administer healing to those legs. God told Jeremiah that he would be anointed to build up and to break down, to pluck up and to grow...to edify and to tear down. God blessed him not only with authority to reprove, but with the grace, the anointing, the power, the love to restore.

The ministry to true restoration imho, is not really as impacting as it should be. Many are so very good at tearing down, but have no power to build up. At giving birth to newborn babes in the Lord, but not at rearing up healthy, anointed spiritual children functional in the Kingdom.

Rearing children is glamorized, for lack of a better term, just as is giving birth and pregnancy in the natural is. The term, 'baby lust' comes to mind. But once those beautiful Gerber babies are born into the kingdom, who changes the diapers when they make a mess? Who is gonna burp them babies after they have eaten the Word so that it can be properly digested? Who is gonna ensure they are properly being taken care of and watched over? Who will teach them how to crawl, to scoot, to walk, to talk, to run? Their ABC's and 123's? How to protect themselves from danger, the enemy? How to become what they are destined to be in God?

Raising children (in the kingdom) is a great responsbility. Being spiritual fathers is even a greater responsibility. Hanby mentions one reason that many do not want to be spiritual fathers is b/c they do not want to be held responsible for having to sometimes bruise a sheep; they wonder and are concerned if they will be able to effectively restore such a one to proper relationship (with himself and God)

These dilemmas are masterfully (imho) brought into light in Hanby's book. I had forgotten what a good book it was.

This does bring a question in my mind-what of the scripture that says we are to call no man father?

I understand why he (Hanby) is in 'hiding' so to speak. He has like this ranch and comes out only to minister the Word. The Body has become very callous in some things. It will eventually get into alignment with the will of God, but wow, what a caricature of what God has ordained!

It is not clear to me whether Hanby is still oneness or not; I do know he was at one time. Sorry I went off on a tangent, again!:)

:bow: God Bless you and welcome to the GNC, Sis. Rodgers!:bow:

Love, Sis. Wenona

[Adoniyah]

Sister Wenona:

You have really been through it but indeed you are a great survivor. I am amazed at how well you are doing considering all that you have been though. You are indeed MORE than a conqueror. Not many could come though as well as you have and still be standing as well are you are. You are a truly remarkable girl.

I will also pray for you sweet Dad, Samuel. How greatly the Lord must love him. Oh, if he could only come to the great knowledge of Jesus through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Inferiority complex? You? No? I do not believe it. You are very intelligent as it is displayed in your thoughts and in your writing. You have a shining personality...I can see it in the expressions in your words and in your pretty smile. You have the Holy Ghost and you know the name of Jesus. GOODNESS!!! Girl, what's wrong with you? Do you think Michael Jordan would have a inferioty complex on the basketball court? Not by the hair of my chinny-chin-chin! Neither should you.

We all luvya more than ukinknow. :)

[survivor4christ]

God Bless you, Elder!

That means a lot. I love you all, too!!!

Sis. Wenona

[tufluv]

Sis Wenona:
I 'ditto' Adoniyah's post right above mine (easier than copying it!)
and I'd like to add I will be praying for your dad as well, and your precious babies!

[Joan]

Sis W. Have you ever read the book Sons of Oil? You might wanna check it out. Author: David A. Huston.

[survivor4christ]

Is this available through PPH?

Love, Sis. Wenona