Is women preacher wrong?

[Holyvessel]

I am new and I have heard that women preacher are not found in the bible.
So my question is Will God use a woman to preach or is that just for men?

[Truthseeker]

There's a thread as long as texas on it you can refer to.

[bigcatdaddy]

I am new and I have heard that women preacher are not found in the bible.
So my question is Will God use a woman to preach or is that just for men?
It is just for men. Women do not belong behind the pulpit. In Samoa we only let them feed the babies. Feed babies is what women do best!

[Holyvessel]

I need bible, for your anwers, please bring me the Word Of OUR LORD.

I cannot acept your comments.

[Holyvessel]

I did not get your answer, or the tread you talk about.

What I want is yes or no and bible for it.

I know this is a very dificult subject and there is a lot of high minded people who try to push there views, like bigcatdaddy,
but i want what GOD say's that's all.

[bigcatdaddy]

I need bible, for your anwers, please bring me the Word Of OUR LORD.

I cannot acept your comments.
I no know who you Lord be, but my Lord is Jesus! and he does say the truth always! In Samoa, we no let women speak. It is bad for church. We let them feed babies like da Bible says.

Please tell me if you woman. If you woman, I no speak with you no more!

[Gods messanger]

Yes women can preach. The Bible says Nor jews nor gentiles. And it says Nor male nor female.

I am a preacher and I'm a women. God spoke to me to Preach. If God tells a women to preach then they should.
The Bibles also says ( your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy) So if women are supose to be quite how can we prophesy? God Bless.

[bigcatdaddy]

Yes women can preach. The Bible says Nor jews nor gentiles. And it says Nor male nor female.

I am a preacher and I'm a women. God spoke to me to Preach. If God tells a women to preach then they should.
The Bibles also says ( your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy) So if women are supose to be quite how can we prophesy? God Bless.
You woman. I no can talk to you no more.

[Holyvessel]

Ok. But the scripture you quoted was for salvation not preaching .

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 ¶For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

these verses does not meantion preaching just salvation
how did you come to the conclusion from these verses that it is talking about women preachers.

I just need to know where in the bible is written that God called a woman to preach that all.

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Honestly, I think you're pulling our legs!

Well if you're not- this is a forum- you can feel free to not talk to females all you like, but you're going to be pretty silent, and if you announce each time that you're not going to talk, then it makes the rest of us #1) wonder what issues you have #2) ignore you because we're not really interested in your issues with women.


:laugh:

[NanaRenan]

There are several pages of posts on this topic in another thread:



http://goodnewscafe.net/showthread.php?t=1316

[Holyvessel]

you still did not bring bible , and you do not have a meek and humble spirit , all you have is a debateting spirit and you are rude!

If you want to minister to someone learn how too.

And know I not a woman.

But I will not treat a woman or speak to a woman like you have done.
I would prefer that you do not speak in this tread.

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Here are some threads debating women preachers.

Women preachers:
http://www.goodnewscafe.net/showthread.php?t=2957

"Why women should not pastor":
http://www.goodnewscafe.net/showthread.php?t=2107

[bigcatdaddy]

I not know strange American custom of pulling the legs of women...we do not do dat in Samoa!!! But I know one thing, we do not give Samoan shell projectifier microphone to no woman!!! Oh, I forgot one thing, we let dem shell clams too, not just feed babies. Too bad so sad pants on fire you miss out on great words of Samoan warrior!!!

[LilOrphanAnnie]

So tell me, where in Samoa do you come from?

[bigcatdaddy]

You woman Annie, I no talk to you :D

[LilOrphanAnnie]

I'm not a woman-

I'm a cartoon character- that's a photograph, not a drawing!

I just think you might be totally pulling our collective chain-

[Truthseeker]

I did not get your answer, or the tread you talk about.

What I want is yes or no and bible for it.

I know this is a very dificult subject and there is a lot of high minded people who try to push there views, like bigcatdaddy,
but i want what GOD say's that's all.


What I meant is there is a huge thread laready on the sunject you can refer to. I think some have pulled it up for you to look at.

[bigcatdaddy]

I'm not a woman-

I'm a cartoon character- that's a photograph, not a drawing!

I just think you might be totally pulling our collective chain-
Since you only drawing instead of photograph pulling chain woman, I tell you where I from.

I from island of Upolu, city of Apia, where I work as janitor for Prime Minister Sailele Malielegaoi TUILA'EPA, I have wonderful job of empty his trash every
Aso Lua and Aso Tofi. No more questions, fa’amolemole, I still think you woman behind crazy picture. In Samoa we no have moli hair either.

Tofa Soifua

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Tofa Soifua means goodbye

Fa'amolemole means Please

Aso Lua is Tuesday (I think) & I forget what day Aso Tofi is.

I don't know what Moli is-

(I lived in American Samoa for 3 yrs at one time)

Well I hope you don't go though- You're welcome here!! :)

[ddc101]

I believe women can preach.My mama preached to me for years.She set me straight but I did not listen.It took years.Then I got salvation and mama was one of the first to get saved right after since we had been catholics.But hey
Mama could preach baby don't you forget it.I felt conviction long before I ever went to the pentecostal church.I had to face mama.Look out what you say because mamas don't just feed babies they also train them up in the ways of the Lord.lv sis.cc

[Moderator]

Since you only drawing instead of photograph pulling chain woman, I tell you where I from.

I from island of Upolu, city of Apia, where I work as janitor for Prime Minister Sailele Malielegaoi TUILA'EPA, I have wonderful job of empty his trash every
Aso Lua and Aso Tofi. No more questions, fa’amolemole, I still think you woman behind crazy picture. In Samoa we no have moli hair either.

Tofa Soifua

And currently you are at the Texas A&M University-Kingsville. So even when you are "playing" lets refrain from name calling.

[ddc101]

Well bigcatdaddy in my book we call that lying.lv sis.c

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Hahahahahahaha

I shoulda gone with my first instincts-

Had me going for a minute at the end there! :icon_laug :spin: :icon_danc

[bigcatdaddy]

Samoan internet no work no mo' :D

[revtonysantucci]

acts 2:17-19 " 17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

The male, and female are considered "man" or mankind. God calls women to preach, and he calls Men to preach. The people who teach, that women preachers are wrong, are liars. And all liars will have a place in the lake that burns with fire. LET GOD BE TRUE< AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.

P.S., let your women in the church, be loosed to preach


love Rev. TOny Santucci

[Holyvessel]

Sorry it did not say preach it said prophesy ,
these are to diffrent things.

If prophesy and preaching was the same then why did paul said women should not speak?????

[NanaRenan]

Wow, bigcatdaddy -- while your English word-usage and syntax needs a little work, you have an uncanny grasp on punctuation and capitalization. I'm especially fond of ellipses and exclamation points myself...!!!...!!!...!!!

Welcome to GNC! :yeah:

[bigcatdaddy]

Aso tofi Thursday in english language

Moli mean orange in english language

I tink I by accident...how you say...high jack de thread.

Have been very fun wit choo all...I say goodbye forever

Well, maybe :D

[ddc101]

Say big cat daddy do you wear one of those big white diapers?

[Truthseeker]

acts 2:17-19 " 17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

The male, and female are considered "man" or mankind. God calls women to preach, and he calls Men to preach. The people who teach, that women preachers are wrong, are liars. And all liars will have a place in the lake that burns with fire. LET GOD BE TRUE< AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.

P.S., let your women in the church, be loosed to preach


love Rev. TOny Santucci


That scripture has nothing to do with preaching.

[LadyRev]

That scripture has nothing to do with preaching.

I know you didn't make this post quoted above. Surely it must have been some imposter impersonating you incorrectly brother. :D


Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Ac 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Ac 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

Prophesy -
Strong's Number: 4395
Original Word Word Origin
profhteuvw from (4396)
Transliterated Word
Propheteuo

Definition -
to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict
to prophesy
with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining esp. to the kingdom of God
to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation
to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
to act as a prophet, discharge the prophetic office

Did Jonah prophesy?

Jonah -
son of Amittai and a native of Gath-hepher; 5th of the minor prophets who prophesied during the reign of Jeroboam II and whom God sent also to prophecy to Nineveh.

OR did Jonah preach???

Jonah 3:2 -
Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Do all that preach prophesy? Not necessarily. Do all that prophesy preach? How can they not?

Do all that receive the Holy Ghost speak in tongues? Most certainly! Do all sons and daughters that receive the Holy Ghost prophesy? Not necessarily.

Ne 6:7 -
And thou hast also appointed prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem,...

[Holyvessel]

Well thank you very much at lease someone has broung bible and information that is helpfull.
Just a minor question sis?

what about women Pastor , were is it written at ?

[ddc101]

II Jn 1:1-6
1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
(KJV)

[Truthseeker]

II Jn 1:1-6
1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
(KJV)
And? :cool:

[Holyvessel]

it does not say pastor, Elder can have meaning meanings. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

[Truthseeker]

I know you didn't make this post quoted above. Surely it must have been some imposter impersonating you incorrectly brother. :D


Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Ac 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Ac 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

Prophesy -
Strong's Number: 4395
Original Word Word Origin
profhteuvw from (4396)
Transliterated Word
Propheteuo

Definition -
to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict
to prophesy
with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining esp. to the kingdom of God
to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation
to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
to act as a prophet, discharge the prophetic office

Did Jonah prophesy?

Jonah -
son of Amittai and a native of Gath-hepher; 5th of the minor prophets who prophesied during the reign of Jeroboam II and whom God sent also to prophecy to Nineveh.

OR did Jonah preach???

Jonah 3:2 -
Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Do all that preach prophesy? Not necessarily. Do all that prophesy preach? How can they not?

Do all that receive the Holy Ghost speak in tongues? Most certainly! Do all sons and daughters that receive the Holy Ghost prophesy? Not necessarily.

Ne 6:7 -
And thou hast also appointed prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem,...


Oh I see, your trying to rebuke a man. ;)

My answer wasn't thorough enough I guess. Let me rephrase it, that scripture doesn't prove women pastors/elders/bishops. Anyone can preach without holding a postion of eldership. IMO


BTW Did you know "reverend" is a title for God? You might want to prayerfully reconsider your screen name. :tup:

[Holyvessel]

That's right .

Psalms 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

[LadyRev]

Oh I see, your trying to rebuke a man. ;)

My answer wasn't thorough enough I guess. Let me rephrase it, that scripture doesn't prove women pastors/elders/bishops. Anyone can preach without holding a postion of eldership. IMO


BTW Did you know "reverend" is a title for God? You might want to prayerfully reconsider your screen name. :tup:


Holy is also a title for God. So I guess we should stop referring to ourselves as holy??? As in holyroller, holy vessel...etc. :yeah:

:banana:

[Truthseeker]

Holy is also a title for God. So I guess we should stop referring to ourselves as holy??? As in holyroller, holy vessel...etc. :yeah:

:banana:

poor comparison.
:p

[Truthseeker]

That's right .

Psalms 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

yeah none of us can claim our name is holy or reverend. So we should obstain from such, as in Rev. Billie Bob and Holy Joe Blow.

[Truthseeker]

So not only is there no women reverends, no men as well. :tup:

[Holyvessel]

The verse holy and reverend is his NAME.

[Truthseeker]

The verse holy and reverend is his NAME.

Walk on through there!!!!

[ServantofGod]

Yes women can preach. The Bible says Nor jews nor gentiles. And it says Nor male nor female.

I am a preacher and I'm a women. God spoke to me to Preach. If God tells a women to preach then they should.
The Bibles also says ( your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy) So if women are supose to be quite how can we prophesy? God Bless.
Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Plainly! God has never called a woman to preach his word nor will he ever will. So, if there is any woman up preaching then she is in sin and is in danger of going straight to the pit of hell. Therefore, I suggest to you women to repent of this wickedness of trying to usurp authority over a man by traying to put yourself in an office that God never meant for you. Also for the woman who quoted this quote above, God will never never call a women to preach his word. For the scriptures plainly teach, I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence. That is plain.

Please check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[Deonna]

38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men (or women as is the case), and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Acts 5:38-39

[ServantofGod]

38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men (or women as is the case), and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Acts 5:38-39
Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This has no application to women preachers, and another thing you added the women just in the case. And you know what the bible says about adding and taking away from God's word, it is most certainly self destruction for you. So, please receive the holy engrafted word that is able to save your soul and come out from any church that is lead by a woman for that church is not of God.

Therefore, please refrain from adding to God's word

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service
Brother Mark Burton

[tufluv]

And currently you are at the Texas A&M University-Kingsville. So even when you are "playing" lets refrain from name calling.
You know thats broSeguidordeJesus..right?

OR....... one of his buddies..LOL!!

:laugh: :laugh:
Its funny for sure! :banana:

[4HimILive]

Therefore, please refrain from adding to God's word


LOL! But that's exactly what you have done! You make claims like:


God has never called a woman to preach his word nor will he ever will. So, if there is any woman up preaching then she is in sin and is in danger of going straight to the pit of hell. God will never never call a women to preach his word.

Can you show me these claims in the Bible? If not, you have also added to the Word of God.

[Deonna]

Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This has no application to women preachers, and another thing you added the women just in the case. And you know what the bible says about adding and taking away from God's word, it is most certainly self destruction for you. So, please receive the holy engrafted word that is able to save your soul and come out from any church that is lead by a woman for that church is not of God.

Therefore, please refrain from adding to God's word

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service
Brother Mark Burton


Brother, so are you saying that EVERY time the word "men" or "brethren" is used in the Bible, we women don't have to obey that scripture....I mean after all, from what you're saying, we can't change that word to address us women.

Examples:
BRETHREN, if a MAN be overtaken in a fault........ Gal 6:1

MAN shall not live by bread alone......... Matt 4:4

If any MAN preach any other gospel...... Gal 1:9

If any MAN love not the Lord.......... I Cor 16:22


BTW, I posted that scripture because this topic has been hashed over and over and over and over and over, etc. I don't argue this topic ~ if women preaching are of their own will, then God will deal with them and it will come to nought. But if it be of God, who are you to try to stop it lest you find yourself fighting against God?

:D

[Janice Alvear]

Judgment Day will tell the story.
My son believes so much in women preachers he thinks people that don't believe in them are lost...so this story never stops. Are there women preachers? Yes, will they be saved? Leave that to the Judge of the earth. Neither my son knows and neither does "servant of God". For neither are God
Who art thou that judgeth another man's servant?
I respect men that believe and men do not believe in women preachers...it all depends on their spirit. We can differ but we cannot be unkind.
We can even feel that we are right but we do not have to be offensive and use derogatory language and put ourselves in the place of God.
I personally do not think trinitarians are saved but I would never tell one you are going to hell. I would try to live in such a way that they would be interested in knowing why I am different. In fact the Lord has blessed me to share oneness with several pastors and today they are oneness.
Hard and cold are not traits of the Master loving and kind are.
One preacher put in his paper a picture she donkey(ha..) and put below it woman preacher. That was so cruel and unthoughtful.
For many years I went to a spiritist (devil worshippers) leper colony and never told them they were going to hell. I even helped in their christmas party. Before it was over we were praying some of them through to the Holy Ghost.
There at the colony we baptized the head witchdoctor...Not one time did I ever offend them but in the years working there I prayer scores of them through to the Holy Ghost. They loved me so much they nicknamed me their angel...
The priest that was there told them one Sunday in Mass they could visit the Missionary"s church. Why? While Rome is not our friend we are friends to even our enemies. I was kind to the old priest and in the end many of his people became believers...
One of my daughter in laws mother was Assembly of God. Her husband a pastor. They lived in a far interior state of Brazil where the Jesus Name message had never been taken...she died without the knowledge of baptism in Jesus name. Many times Meire has asked me was her mother lost.. because she had never even heard of baptism in Jesus Name. In the last service she was in there was a message that said God was going to call home 3 people. The bus wrecked and her mother was one that was killed. She died penned under the wheels of the big bus speaking in tongues...
Now judges write the next post on if she was saved or lost...
Would a just God condemn her to a burning hell because she never heard or would he condeam those that know and never went?
Would a just God condemn me for going where men have never been to tell the story of Jesus or will He condemn the men for not going?
My dear friends...why don't you stop reading this post for the next 15 minutes and weep for the millions that sit in pagan darkness...
I wonder should we fuss and fight about such trivial things...while the world rushes madly toward hell?
Do we straighten pictures in burning houses?
My son just visited an entire little city that has NEVER HEARD THE JESUS NAME MESSAGE.
Will we eat our bread alone? Are we content to live in our little selfish world with our titles of Bishop or Doctor so and so...Where are the real men and women that will join the ranks on the front lines?
I am weeping now...for I no longer have the strength or health to be on the front lines...but my sons are there. In fact two of them are away from their homes and families today in the far interior telling the story of Jesus...

[centerofhiswill]

sis. alvear, well put. if i was lost without God, and lived in a remote area as you live, i would appreciate anyone (man or woman) to come and give me the salvation message.

[Deonna]

Judgment Day will tell the story.
My son believes so much in women preachers he thinks people that don't believe in them are lost...so this story never stops. Are there women preachers? Yes, will they be saved? Leave that to the Judge of the earth. Neither my son knows and neither does "servant of God". For neither are God
Who art thou that judgeth another man's servant?
I respect men that believe and men do not believe in women preachers...it all depends on their spirit. We can differ but we cannot be unkind.
We can even feel that we are right but we do not have to be offensive and use derogatory language and put ourselves in the place of God.
I personally do not think trinitarians are saved but I would never tell one you are going to hell. I would try to live in such a way that they would be interested in knowing why I am different. In fact the Lord has blessed me to share oneness with several pastors and today they are oneness.
Hard and cold are not traits of the Master loving and kind are.
One preacher put in his paper a picture she donkey(ha..) and put below it woman preacher. That was so cruel and unthoughtful.
For many years I went to a spiritist (devil worshippers) leper colony and never told them they were going to hell. I even helped in their christmas party. Before it was over we were praying some of them through to the Holy Ghost.
There at the colony we baptized the head witchdoctor...Not one time did I ever offend them but in the years working there I prayer scores of them through to the Holy Ghost. They loved me so much they nicknamed me their angel...
The priest that was there told them one Sunday in Mass they could visit the Missionary"s church. Why? While Rome is not our friend we are friends to even our enemies. I was kind to the old priest and in the end many of his people became believers...
One of my daughter in laws mother was Assembly of God. Her husband a pastor. They lived in a far interior state of Brazil where the Jesus Name message had never been taken...she died without the knowledge of baptism in Jesus name. Many times Meire has asked me was her mother lost.. because she had never even heard of baptism in Jesus Name. In the last service she was in there was a message that said God was going to call home 3 people. The bus wrecked and her mother was one that was killed. She died penned under the wheels of the big bus speaking in tongues...
Now judges write the next post on if she was saved or lost...
Would a just God condemn her to a burning hell because she never heard or would he condeam those that know and never went?
Would a just God condemn me for going where men have never been to tell the story of Jesus or will He condemn the men for not going?
My dear friends...why don't you stop reading this post for the next 15 minutes and weep for the millions that sit in pagan darkness...
I wonder should we fuss and fight about such trivial things...while the world rushes madly toward hell?
Do we straighten pictures in burning houses?
My son just visited an entire little city that has NEVER HEARD THE JESUS NAME MESSAGE.
Will we eat our bread alone? Are we content to live in our little selfish world with our titles of Bishop or Doctor so and so...Where are the real men and women that will join the ranks on the front lines?
I am weeping now...for I no longer have the strength or health to be on the front lines...but my sons are there. In fact two of them are away from their homes and families today in the far interior telling the story of Jesus...



WOW!!! Very well said! Very good points! Thank you for sharing that! It really does make you weep to think about that. :cry:

[ServantofGod]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Truly women preachers are not of God. And hear me and listen good! God will never never call a women to preach. I emphasize moreover that every woman that is up preaching has been sent by the devil out of hell. Truly that is plainly. Look at I Timothy chapter 2 verse 12

I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.

I Corinthinans 14 verse 34-35 teaches that it is a shame from women to preach. Again Isaiah 3 verse 12 says women preachers will lead you to hell.

So, it is very plain that every woman preacher is of the devil

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

Please check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com

[ddc101]

Don't you just love it? :flame:

[jesusonly238]

Well, well, well! I see where this man gets it from. He is a follower of a certain man who thinks he is an Apostle. So, what does this Apostle say to the fact that women preachers have led more people to the truth than he has?

[4HimILive]

sis. alvear, well put. if i was lost without God, and lived in a remote area as you live, i would appreciate anyone (man or woman) to come and give me the salvation message.
Like Sis. Alvear, there is a woman in Australia who is presently alone and spreading the Word of God to her neighbors. I know she has asked for help from men....from anywhere....to come for even a couple weeks and help her, but none have come, whether they are able or not. I am not able, and neither are many others, but still, even in her own country, none have come. It saddens me to know that others will say she is hell bound for doing something that no man has yet to do in her part of the world. If I were lost without God, I wouldn't care if a donkey came and spoke to me, as long as I was saved, that's all that important. It isn't the messenger that God cares about, but the message.

[4HimILive]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Truly women preachers are not of God. And hear me and listen good! God will never never call a women to preach. I emphasize moreover that every woman that is up preaching has been sent by the devil out of hell. Truly that is plainly. Look at I Timothy chapter 2 verse 12

I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.

I Corinthinans 14 verse 34-35 teaches that it is a shame from women to preach. Again Isaiah 3 verse 12 says women preachers will lead you to hell.

So, it is very plain that every woman preacher is of the devil

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

Please check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com
Can I ask why this guy hasn't been banned for these comments yet? Bro. Rutledge? Sis. Cooper? Bro. Atchinson? I know I'm not the only one offended here, and I'm neither woman nor preacher.

[jesusonly238]

Brother,
This man is the product of a mindset of which he needs deliverance from. I was of that mindset, and if my Pastor and his wife had not helped me to get deliverance, I would not be right today. This brother needs another dip into the colling water, I do believe, before he condemns and damns everyone who is not like him.
Lord help this man see the truth, in Jesus name!

[4HimILive]

Brother,
This man is the product of a mindset of which he needs deliverance from. I was of that mindset, and if my Pastor and his wife had not helped me to get deliverance, I would not be right today. This brother needs another dip into the colling water, I do believe, before he condemns and damns everyone who is not like him.
Lord help this man see the truth, in Jesus name!
Until he posted his real name, I thought he was another 'famous' preacher from Durham, NC. LOL! I bet they are good buddies, from the way he talks!

[Michael dl Sota]

Instead of banning him, why not refute his interpretation of scripture?

[ddc101]

Hi Micheal welcome to the cafe.Whats your take on that scripture.lv sis.c :angel:

[4HimILive]

Instead of banning him, why not refute his interpretation of scripture?
I never saw scripture that stated women who preach are going to hell, have you? Since there aren't any, then what is there to refute?

As for banning him, I believe he's crossed the line according to the GNC rules.


Rules of Conduct

We do not allow any rebuking, hatefulness, name calling, or verbal attacks by any person or group of people, toward any person or group of people.

I believe his stating that "every woman that is up preaching has been sent by the devil out of hell" and "if there is any woman up preaching then she is in sin and is in danger of going straight to the pit of hell. Therefore, I suggest to you women to repent of this wickedness" and "every woman preacher is of the devil" is breaking that rule above quite plainly.

[Janice Alvear]

Before this goes to far let me say there are some things we never will understand all the why's of God. Why my old faithful mother traveled to Brazil and here where her insurance is no good, and she gets a little over 300 dollars from her gov. check and her bills run at least 2000 every month and she hardly knows she is in the world...why would this happen to someone so faithful? Why the beggar sits on the street, the children stave. one in every three are hungry this morning in Brazil, why God speaks to the heart of a weaker vessel to go into the mist of a pagan worshipping people.
Oh the questions I will some day ask him that today we undestand only in part.
Does it hurt to be criticized? Of course. I read some where that men and women stood on the waysides of the places Jesus passed and called him bastard. Did it hurt? Of course. Did he lower himself to respond to what they did not understand? No. Am I called t be a missionary? Yes. Will I lower myself to fuss and fight and name call to defend my call? No. I will just quitely do my tiny task that He asked me to do. I am postive others could do much better even our brothers and sisters on the GNC that have so much to say why a woman cannot glean in the harvest fields. I personally have no talents so anything that has been done here so the credit first goes to God and a host of Brazilian saints and my family that has worked very hard.
I only know that in June 1968 I had just turned 18 and caught a plane to Brazil with the promise of 25 dollars a month. Today there are many churches scattered throughout Brazil under our direction and many that we helped start that preach the Acts 2:38 message that work independent or with other groups.
Today two of our sons are in a convention in far north Brazil of a little church that I baptized the first converts in that area long ago...
I really doubt if there are any women on their platform this morning in their convention not that they do't believe that God can use a woman but today there are capable men that carry on...Would they love for me to be there? Yes. Would they want me sitting right beside them on the platform? Yes. That is why I like to fade in the background...my work is done...I took Jesus to them...now they can carry on...I have no desire to be seen or recognized.

[Holyvessel]

A small study for the Ladies.

Another argument is the plea that some Christian women possess every gift claimed by males: zeal, education, holiness, power of speech, and therefore it is asked why these are not qualifications for the ministry in the case of the woman as well as for men.

It is advocated that it is a damaging and a cruel policy, to deprive the church of the souls that could be won and the good that might be done, which these gifts and graces might procure when exercised in the pulpit by women. Some women claim that they have felt the impulse of both the Spirit and their conscience to proclaim the gospel, which they feel, confirms God's call to the ministry. They say, that they, “must obey God rather than men,” and they warn us against opposing their impulses, for they say, “it is possible that we ‘will only find ourselves fighting against God.’”They argue that the Apostle Paul himself has told us, in the new creation of grace that, “there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, slave or free.” In Christ, “there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female” [Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:28]. Our answer: if the spiritual kingdom levels all social and earthly distinctions, then its official rights should be equally distributed without any regard to persons-but it is obvious that this is just not the case.
4. Next, it is claimed that God has decided the question by setting His seal of approval on the preaching of some blessed women.

For example, they cite women such as Miss Sarah Smiley, who is commonly referred to as “Friend”. If the successful results of her ministry are not of God’s grace, then we can reasonably discredit all the fruits of the gospel that are displayed by those whose lives have been changed by her preaching. And so they ask triumphantly, “Would God use and honor an agency which he himself has declared to be unlawful?” We reply, “Yes.” However, this confident argument is founded on a very obvious mistake.

Surely God does not honor, but he does use agents whom he disapproves of.

Surely God does not approve of a man who “preaches Christ out of envy and rivalry” (Philippians 1:15), yet the Apostle Paul rejoices in the fact that “whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached.” There are two very simple truths, which no believer disputes, destroy the whole force of their argument that the “ends justify the means.” One is that a truly sincere Christian may go in the wrong direction in one particular area of their life, and our heavenly Father, who is very patient, may withhold his displeasure from the misguided efforts of his child, through Christ's intercession, because, though misguided, he is his still God’s blessed child. The other is, that it is one of God's clearest and most blessed prerogatives to bring good out of evil. Thus who can doubt that it is wrong for a man dead in his sins to intrude into the sacred ministry? Yet God has often employed such sinners to convert souls; not sanctioning their profane intrusion, but glorifying his own grace by overruling it.

This plea for women preachers may be also refuted by another answer.

If the rightfulness of actions is to be determined by their results, then evidently it ought to be by their complete results.

But who is competent to say whether the complete results of one of these devout blunders will be beneficial or harmful? I will grant that a zealous female may convert or confirm several souls by her preaching. But isn’t it also possible that she may, by this bad example, in the future introduce an amount of confusion, disturbance, strife, error and scandal which will greatly outweigh the initial limited good? This question cannot be answered until time is ended, and it will require an omniscient mind to judge it. Thus it becomes perfectly clear that present seemingly good results cannot ever be a sufficient justification of conduct, which violates the clear Word of God. This is our only sure guide. Bad results, following a course of action not commanded in the Word, may present a sufficient, even a commanding reason for stopping. Likewise, good results following such action may suggest some probability for continuance, however when the course of action transgresses the command of Scripture then such probability becomes worthless.

[Abigail4476]

I never saw scripture that stated women who preach are going to hell, have you? Since there aren't any, then what is there to refute?

As for banning him, I believe he's crossed the line according to the GNC rules.


I believe his stating that "every woman that is up preaching has been sent by the devil out of hell" and "if there is any woman up preaching then she is in sin and is in danger of going straight to the pit of hell. Therefore, I suggest to you women to repent of this wickedness" and "every woman preacher is of the devil" is breaking that rule above quite plainly.
4HimILive,

There are some people who are so obnoxious, that they only make themselves look bad, and I can't speak for the entire Moderating Team, but I sometimes find this amusing and like to let them have a little rope with which to hang themselves. Don't worry; such behavior won't go unchecked for very long.

[tufluv]

poor comparison.
:p
BroRob, you may be right cause I was just thinkin that
"Holy" is an adjective, {word used for descriptive purposes.}, and we have HIS permission to be called "Holy..as HE is Holy"..HE tells us in HIS WORD, that we must strive be holy - (verb for suggested action)
JMHO. :D

[tufluv]

.. I will grant that a zealous female may convert or confirm several souls by her preaching. But isn’t it also possible that she may, by this bad example, in the future introduce an amount of confusion, disturbance, strife, error and scandal which will greatly outweigh the initial limited good? ..YES. Thus it becomes perfectly clear that present seemingly good results cannot ever be a sufficient justification of conduct, which violates the clear Word of God. This is our only sure guide.. however when the course of action transgresses the command of Scripture then such probability becomes worthless.
Just my 2cents on thoughts provoked by your post as quoted above..my reply in blue.

[ddc101]

What is the motivating factor behind this thread? I have to wonder.Because someone who seems to have all the answers started out by asking a question.
Also I have to say it once and for all

Is Women preacher wrong? .........Which women preacher would that be?????Or is it just that someone has english for a second language.....hum......lv sis.c

[4HimILive]

Originally Posted by Holyvessel
.. I will grant that a zealous female may convert or confirm several souls by her preaching. But isn’t it also possible that she may, by this bad example, in the future introduce an amount of confusion, disturbance, strife, error and scandal which will greatly outweigh the initial limited good?


There was a YES answered to the bold statement above, however, can you name one woman preacher to went down the road of confusion, disturbance, strife, error, and scandal? I can name about 30 male-once Apostolic-preachers off the top of my head who fit that statement, but not a single woman.

Since you don't want to name her publically, you can send it by PM to me.

[Janice Alvear]

Glad the Lord has a few "judges" that have decided my fate...ha.......
I sure am tired due to mothers illness. We are wondering if she will leave for glory tonight. She sure will be in shock to find out that her daughter that has been on the mission field for almost 40 years cannot go to heaven...my 2 other sisters do not serve the Lord but she was counting on me being there with her...LOL...

[Estrada]

He loves us all so much. I can't imagine how much it would hurt the Lord to see a son put a sister down because of her love for the gospel because of her "talent" that she has chosen to multiply and do great exploits for her master Jesus Christ. When a saint (put the labels aside right now) can look on another saint and realize that it is the Holy Ghost speaking through them the power of the Almighty God not the human but, the spirit of God himself boy, will revelation come forth! The spirit of God is powerful no matter who he uses it is his spirit!!!! A person who has a deep consecrated walk with God will hear from God will receive great gifts from God because they are walking in the spirit and not in the flesh! What I have realized that many people today do not walk in the spirit do not have deep consecrated prayer lives so therefore they have trouble relating they have a hard time seeing but, get them in the spirit and "keep" them in the spirit and when they come out of it they will realize that there are no limits to what God can do...it is his spirit working through men, women and children! He is powerful not a weak God who only has to hide behind a man when he has vessels all over the earth young and old! It's awesome the spirit of God has revealed himself to Moses in a burning bush was the bush the power of was it the Almighty God! I sometimes wonder where is the conviction of a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ who chooses not to becareful in their choice of words towards one another. The tongue is so unruly and it can be so cruel that is why we are supposed to be very careful because we are going to be judged by every word that proceedeth out of our mouths and we should never speak contrary to our brother or sister to put them down for the good they are doing. I can relate that we can disagree I have disagreed with my brother/sister during certain instances but, that never meant that I did not love them or respect them I just may not agree with them and chose that for myself.. So, Lord bless the people of God who chose to walk faithfully and in much consecration and Lord help those that need strength to do your will according to your righteous your ways are higher than Gods ways so, according to his word I put my trust in God far above humanity! He is my shephard and my armour and continually watches over all of us day and night...so brothers lets not put down your sister...lets not let the enemy sit back and delight in that one bit...give no way to the devil... Lord bless you all...

and may our Lord Jesus Christ use whomever he wills and may we continue to yield our vessels unto him...

[ddc101]

Glad the Lord has a few "judges" that have decided my fate...ha.......
I sure am tired due to mothers illness. We are wondering if she will leave for glory tonight. She sure will be in shock to find out that her daughter that has been on the mission field for almost 40 years cannot go to heaven...my 2 other sisters do not serve the Lord but she was counting on me being there with her...LOL...


Sister Alvear,
Jesus did not call you to the mission field to pour out your life and give up all that remained of your own personal desires to send you to hell when its over.lv sis.c

[Janice Alvear]

I know I was just amazed at some people be so quick to condemn ...glad Jesus never condemned except those that condemned...
Love you my friend....mother at this moment is still with us...

[ddc101]

Sister I am so sorry that she is ill.I remember how she had gone to live with you when you came over last year.Thank the Lord you got all those memories to cherish.I would not trade the memories for anything with my mom.lv sis.c

[Holyvessel]

part two of my two cents

When the apostle teaches the equality of everyone in the privilege of redemption, it is obvious he is speaking in general, and not of official positions in the visible church, but of access to Christ and participation in his blessings.
Paul’s exclusion of women from the pulpit is as clear and emphatic as his assertion of the universal equality in Christ. Surely he does not intend to contradict himself. Our interpretation is also established by other instances of a similar kind. The apostle expressly excludes “new converts” from the office of preacher and minister. Yet no one dreams that he would have made the newness of their salvation a ground of discrimination against their equal privileges in Christ. Without a doubt the apostle would have been just as ready to assert that in Christ there is neither young nor old, just as in Christ there is neither male nor female. Equally, every rational man would exclude children from the office of pastor in the church, yet no one would belittle their equal standing in Christ. Likewise, the apostle denies Christians who were guilty of polygamy from being a pastor, however sincere their repentance. If, then, the equality of these classes in Christ did not imply their fitness for public office in the church, neither does the equality of females with males in Christ imply it. So we can see that the scope of the apostle in these verses proves that he meant nothing more, for his purpose in referring to this blessed Christian equality is to reveal that all classes of Christians have a right to church membership and that Christian love and communion ought to embrace everyone.

Next, we see that when the claim is made that the church must concede the ministerial function to the Christian woman who sincerely believes she has been called to it, we have a dangerous perversion of the true doctrine of calling or being called to the ministry. True, this calling is spiritual, but it is also scriptural.

The same Spirit who truly calls the minister also dictated the Holy Scriptures. When even a godly man says that he thinks the Spirit has called him to preach, there may be room for doubt; but there can be no doubt whatever that the Spirit calls no person to do what the word dictated by the Spirit, forbids. The Spirit cannot contradict himself. No persons are entitled to claim a specific call of the Spirit for them individually to do or teach something contrary to or in violation of the Scriptures previously given to the church, unless they can sustain their claim by some miracle. Again, the true doctrine of calling is that the man whom God has intended and qualified to preach discovers his call through the word. The word is the instrument by which the Spirit teaches him, with prayer, that he is to preach. Therefore, when a person professes to have felt this call whom the word distinctly precludes from the work, like the new Christian, the child, the repentant polygamist, or the female, even though we may ascribe her mistake to a well-intentioned zeal, then we absolutely know that she is mistaken; she has confused a human impulse with the Spirit's calling.

Next, the scriptural calling comes not only through the heart of the candidate, but also from the Church itself, for the call is never complete until the Church has confirmed it.

But by what rule will the Church be guided in the matter of ordaining ministers? By the simple declaration of any one who assumes to be sincere? Truly not. The Church is expressly commanded not to “believe every spirit, but to test the spirits to see whether they are from God.” They have no other rule than Scripture. Who can believe that God's Spirit is the agent of such anarchy as this, where the Church holds in their hands the Word, teaching them that God does not call any woman, and yet a woman insists against them that God has called her? God “is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints.” It is on this very subject of calling to public teaching and preaching that the apostle makes this declaration.

Next, The argument from the seeming fitness of some women, by their gifts and graces, to edify the churches by preaching, is then useless and false.
When God endows a woman with the ability to understand and teach His Word, it may be safely assumed that he has some wise end in view; he has some area or sphere in which her gifts will come into proper play. But surely it is far from reverent for the creature to decide, against God's Word, that this sphere is the pulpit. God’s wisdom is better than man's. The sin involves the presumption of Uzzah. He was right in thinking that it would be a bad thing to have the sacred ark fall into the dirt, and in thinking that he had the physical strength to steady it, just like any Levite; but he was wrong in presuming to serve God in a way that God had not prescribed. So when men lament the “unemployed spiritual power,” which they suppose exists in many gifted females, as a great loss to the church, they are reasoning with Uzzah; they are presumptuously setting their human wisdom above God's wisdom.

The argument, then, whether any woman may or may not be a preacher of the word should be primarily one of Scripture.

Does the Bible really prohibit it? I assert that it does.

First, the Old Testament, which contained, in seed, all the principles of the New Testament, allowed no regular church office to any woman. When a few women were employed as mouthpieces of God, it was in a purely extraordinary office, and in which they could offer supernatural evidence of their commission. No woman ever ministered at the altar, as either a priest or a Levite. No female elder was ever seen in a Hebrew congregation. No woman ever sat on the throne of the theocracy, except the pagan usurper and murderess, Athaliah.

Now, this Old Testament principle of ministry is carried over to a degree in the New Testament where we find the Christian congregations, with elders, teachers, and deacons, and its women invariably keeping silent in the assembly.

[Holyvessel]

another two cents

Secondly, if human language can make anything plain, it is that the New Testament institutions do not allow the woman to rule or “to have authority over a man.” (See 1 Tim. 2:12; 1 Cor. 11:3, 7-10; Eph. 5:22, 23; 1 Peter 3:1, 5, 6.)

As a minimum, in church affairs, the woman's position in the church is subordinate to the man's. And according to New Testament precedent and doctrine, the call to preaching and ruling in the church must go together. Every church elder is not a preacher, but every preacher of the church must be an elder of the church. It is clearly implied in 1 Timothy 5:17 that there were church elders who were not preachers, but never was their a preacher of the church who was not an elder. The scriptural qualifications for preaching, that is, the knowledge, holiness, experience, authority, dignity, purity, were even more exacting qualifications than those listed for elders. Truly, “The greater includes the less.” Therefore it is simply inconceivable that a person could experience a true call to the public preaching and teaching of the Word and not also called to be an elder. Therefore, if it is right for the woman to preach, she must also be a church elder. But God has expressly prohibited the latter, and assigned to woman a domestic and social place, in which her demand that she be an elder and a preacher would simply be anarchy.

This argument may be put in a most practical and specific shape, which will reveal its absolute absurdity. Let it be granted, for argument's sake, that here is a woman whose gifts and graces, spiritual wisdom and experience, are so superior to others, that her friends feel that it would be a great loss of power in the church to confine her to silence in the public assembly. Therefore, for that reason, she exercises her public gift and finds great success. She becomes the spiritual parent of many newborn souls. Is it not right then, that her spiritual offspring should look up to her for guidance? How can she, from her position, justify herself in refusing the needs of these newborn babes in Christ? She herself felt properly driven, by the deficiency in the quantity or quality of the male preaching in this church, to break through the restraints of sex and contribute her superior gifts to the winning of souls. Now, to carry this further, if it appears that a similar deficiency of male leadership, either in quantity or quality, exists in the same church, then the same impulse must, by the stronger reason, prompt her to assume the less public and prominent work of church leadership and rule. She ought to take over the responsibilities of a senior elder, and thus preserve the fruits she has planted. She ought to admonish, command, censure, and excommunicate her male converts, including, possibly, the husband she is to obey at home, if the real welfare of the souls she has won requires such action. All this would be absurd and very damaging to the church.

Let us now look at the Word of God concerning the preaching and leadership of the church; we shall find them particularly, even surprisingly, explicit.

First, we have 1 Corinthians 11:3-16, where the apostle discusses the relation and manner of the sexes in the public Christian assemblies; and he assures the Corinthians, verses 2 and 16, that the rules he announces here were universally accepted by all the churches. Two principles are laid down: first, verse 4, that the man should preach (or pray) in public with his head uncovered, because in that capacity he stands as God's herald and representative; and to assume at that time the emblem of subordination, a covered head, is a dishonor to the office and the God it represents; secondly, verses 5, and 13, that, on the contrary, for a woman to appear or to perform any public religious function in the Christian assembly, with her head uncovered, is a glaring impropriety, because it is contrary to the subordination of the position assigned her by her Creator, and to the modesty suitable to her sex; and even nature settles the point by giving her, her long hair as her natural veil. Even as good taste and a natural sense of propriety would protest against a woman going in public without that beautiful emblem and adornment of her sex-her long hair, cut off like a common soldier or a laborer, even so, clearly does nature herself sustain God's law in requiring the woman to appear always modestly covered in the church. The holy angels who are present, as invisible spectators, hovering over the Christian assemblies, would be shocked by seeing women professing godliness publicly display themselves without this appropriate emblem of their position (verse 10).

1. The woman, then, has a right to the privileges of public worship and the Lord’s Supper; she may join audibly in the praises and prayers of the public assembly, but she must always do this with her head covered.

The apostle does not, in this chapter, stop to make the distinction, that if every public herald of God, must not have their heads covered, and the woman must never have her head uncovered in public, then she can never be a public herald of the Gospel. But let us wait. He is not done with these questions of order in public worship; he steadily continues the discussion of them through the fourteenth chapter, and he then in time reaches the conclusion he had been preparing, and in verses 34 and 35, expressly prohibits women from preaching, saying, “women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak” (in that place), but must be in submission, as the Bible says. “If they want to inquire about something,”-about some doctrine which they hear discussed but do not comprehend, then “they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” And in verse 37, he ends the whole discussion by declaring that “if anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted,” so as to be entitled to challenge Paul’s instructions, then “let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command,” and not his mere personal conclusions. So to challenge Paul’s clear instructions on such pretensions of spiritual impulse is inevitably wrong and presumptuous. For the unchallengeable Lord does not issue commands in contradictory ways.

[Holyvessel]

ending part of previous



The next passage is 1 Timothy 2:11-15. In the eighth verse, the apostle, having taught what should be the tenor of the public prayers and why, says: “I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer” (referring to the practice which the two sexes publicly prayed together). He then commands, in keeping with the tenor of the passage in 1 Corinthians 11, for Christian women to come to church dressed in the most modest clothing, so as to express the humble modesty of their sex. He then continues: “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach” (context is to teach in public) nor “to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived;” (by Satan) “it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner” (first). “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”

In 1 Timothy 5:9-15, a sphere of church ministry is clearly defined for older single women, and for them only, who are widows or have never been married and are without any near relatives. So specific is the apostle that he categorically fixes the limit to those sixty years old, below which the church may not accept. What was this sphere of labor? It was evidently some form of deaconess type work, helping others, and clearly not preaching, because the age, qualifications and connections all point to these private benevolent tasks, and the uninspired history confirms it.

Now, to all the younger women the apostle then assigns their specific sphere of ministry in these words (verse 14), “So I counsel younger women to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander,” either against Christians or Christianity in general. Here we find strong evidence that Paul assigned no public preaching function to women. In Titus 2:4, 5, women who have not reached old age are “to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.” And the only teaching function even hinted at for the older women is found in verse 4, which is that they teach these private domestic virtues to their younger sisters. We can clearly see that the apostle here assigns the home as the proper sphere of activity and ministry of the Christian woman. That is her kingdom, and clearly not the secular workplace nor the church. Her duties in her home will basically keep her away from the public functions. She is not to be in authority over men, but a loving subject to her husband.

The grounds on which the apostle rests the divine legislation against the preaching of women make it clear that we have construed it correctly. Bringing together 1 Corinthians 11 with 1 Timothy 2, we find the following: The male was the first creation of God, the female a subsequent one. The female was made from the substance of the male, being taken from his side. The purpose of the woman's creation and existence is to be a helpmate for man, and in a sense in which the man was not originally designed as a helpmate for the woman. Therefore God, from the beginning of man's existence as a sinner, put the wife under the kind and compassionate authority of the husband, making him the head and her the subordinate in domestic society. Then finally, the action of the woman in yielding first to Satanic temptation and aiding to seduce her husband into sin was punished by this subjection, as seen in the curse of Genesis 3:16, where it is declared that the husband will rule over the wife, and the sentence on the first woman has been extended, by imputation, to all her daughters. These are the grounds on which the apostle says the Lord enacted that in the church assemblies the woman shall be the student, and not the public teacher, ruled, and not ruler.

The reasons against the public preaching and teaching by women apply to all women, of all ages and civilizations alike. Such reasons are, indeed, in strong opposition to the radical theories of individual human rights and equality now in vogue with many today. Instead of allowing all human beings a specific equality and an absolute natural independence, these Scripture doctrines assume that there are orders of human beings naturally unequal in their inherited rights, as in their bodily and mental qualities; that God has not ordained any human being to this proud independence, but placed all in subordination under authority, the child under its mother, the mother under her husband, the husband under the church and civil authorities, and these under the law, whose guardian and avenger is God himself.

The inspired commands of Scripture are explicit to every honest listener, as explicit as human language can make it. Yet modern ingenuity has written much to try to explain it away. One is not surprised to find these expositions, even when advanced by those who profess to accept the Scriptures, colored with a lot of error. For a true and honest reverence of the inspiration of Scripture would scarcely try so hopeless a task as the misrepresenting and diffusing of so clear a law. Thus, sometimes we hear these remarks uttered almost as a sneer, “Oh, this is the opinion of Paul, a crusty old bachelor with his head stuffed with those ideas of woman which were current when society considered her an illiterate, a plaything, and a slave.” Or, we are referred to the fable of the paintings of the man dominating the lion, in which the man was always the painter, and it is said, “Paul was a man; he is jealous for the authority of his sex. The law would be different if it were uttered through a woman.” What is all this except open unbelief and resistance, when the apostle says expressly that this law was the enactment of the Christ who condescended to be born of woman.

[Holyvessel]

sorry just got a lot to say

Again, one would have us read the prohibition of 1 Corinthians 14:34, as “women are not allowed to ‘babble,’” rather than that they are “not allowed to speak.”

Therefore they try to show that the verb used here is in the negative sense only, and that the prohibition is that a woman is not allowed to talk nonsense in public, but does not exclude, but rather implies, her right to preach, provided she preaches well and only solid Biblical truth. No expositor will need to reply to such criticism so wretchedly absurd as this. But it may be good to simply point out in refuting such an argument that the opposite of this verb in Paul's own mind and statement is “to be silent.” The implied distinction, then, is not here between solid speech and babbling, but between speaking publicly and keeping silent. Again, in the parallel passage (1 Timothy 2:12), the apostle says “I do not permit a woman to teach” where he uses the Greek word “didasko” whose regular meaning means “to teach” in the general sense-any kind of teaching. And the apostle's whole logic in the contexts is directed, not against silly teachings by women, but against any public teaching by women.

Another way they try to dodge the truth of the text is to say that, “Yes, the law is indeed explicit, but it was only temporary.”

When woman were, what paganism and the eastern harem had made her, she was indeed unfit for ruling and public teaching; she was only a grown-up child, ignorant, impulsive and rash, like other children; and while she remained so the apostle's exclusion was wise and just. But the law was not meant to apply to the modem Christian woman, lifted up by better institutions into an intellectual, moral and literary equality with the man. No doubt if the apostle were alive today, he himself would have acknowledge it.

This is at least a more decent argument. But as for a proper interpretation of the text it is as unfair and untenable as the other. For, first, it is false to assume that the Apostle’s conception of the Christian woman was that of an ignorant grown-up child from the harem. The harem was not a legitimate Hebrew institution. Polygamy was not the rule, but the exception, in reputable Hebrew families; nor were devout Jews, such as Paul had been, ignorant of the unlawfulness of such domestic abuses. Jewish manners and laws were not like the peoples around them, but a glorious exception to the surrounding nations, in the place they assigned woman; and God's Word of the Old Testament had doubtless done among the Jews the same ennobling work for woman which we now claim Christianity does. The competent archeologist and historian know that it has always been the trait of Judaism to assign an honorable place to woman. Accordingly, we never find the apostle drawing a depreciated picture of woman; every allusion of his to the believing woman is full of reverent respect and honor. Among the Christian women who come into Paul's history there is not one who is portrayed after this imagined pattern of childish ignorance and weakness. The Lydia, the Lois, the Eunice, the Phoebe, the Priscilla, the Roman Mary, the Junia, the Tryphena, the Tryphosa, the “beloved Persis” of the Pauline history, and the “elect lady” who was honored with the friendship of the Apostle John, all appear in the narrative as bright examples of Christian intelligence, activity, dignity, and graciousness. It was not left for the pretentious Christianity of our century to begin the liberation of woman. As soon as Christianity conquered a household, it did its blessed work in lifting up the feebler and oppressed sex; and it is evident that Paul's habitual conception of female Christian character in the churches in which he ministered was at least as favorable as his estimate of the male members. Thus the state of facts on which this argument rests had no place in Paul's mind; he did not consider himself as legislating temporarily in view of the inferiority of the female Christian character of his day, for he did not think it was inferior. When this unfounded argument is inspected it unmasks itself simply into an instance of quiet egotism. The women of our day who feel they are called to preach are in effect saying, “I am so elevated and enlightened that I am above the law, which was good enough for those old fogies, Priscilla, Persis, Eunice; and the elect lady.” Indeed! This is modesty with a vengeance! Was Paul only temporarily legislating when he termed modesty one of the brightest jewels in the Christian woman's crown?

A second answer is seen to this plea in the nature of the apostle's basis for the law.

Not one of them is personal, cultural, or temporary. Nor does he say that woman must not preach because he regards her as less holy, less zealous, less eloquent, less educated, less courageous, or less intellectual, than man. Those who advocate woman's rights have a continual tendency to confuse the issue, claiming that the apostle, when he says that woman must not do what man does, meant to belittle her sex. This is a sheer mistake. You will search in vain for any belittling of the qualities and virtues of the female sex; and we may also at this point properly disclaim all such intention. Woman is excluded from this masculine task of public preaching by Paul, not because she is inferior to man, but simply because her Creator has ordained for her another work which is incompatible with the public preaching and teaching of the Word.

Further, we can plainly see that the scriptural law was not meant to be temporary, and had no exclusive reference to the ignorant and childish woman of the Eastern harem, because every basis assigned for the exclusion of women preachers is of universal and perpetual application.

They apply to the modern, educated woman in the exact same way as they applied to Phoebe, Priscilla, and Eunice. They do not lose a single grain of force by any change of social practice or feminine culture, rather they are grounded in the facts of woman's origin and nature and the intended role and purpose of her existence. Thus this second argument for women preachers is totally closed. And the argument finds its final deathblow in such passages as 1 Timothy 2:9 and 5:14. As I have mentioned earlier, a few older women of special circumstances are admitted as assistants in the work of the deacons. However, the apostle then clearly assigns the rest of the body of Christian women to the domestic sphere, indicating clearly that any attempts by them to go beyond their assigned role would give the enemy an opportunity for slander. Here, then, we have the clearest proof, in a negative form, that the Apostle Paul did not plan the assigned role of women to be temporary; for it is for woman as elevated and enlightened by the gospel that he preached, that he laid down the limits of their ministry.

The justification is not found in any belittling of woman as man's natural inferior, but in the ancient fact: “he created them as male and female.” In order to establish human society God saw that it was necessary to create for man's mate, not his exact image, but his counterpart. An identical creature to man would have utterly marred their companionship, and would have been an equal curse to both. Although there is an obvious similarity in the man and woman, yet there are unique differences which clearly reveal that each is fitted for works and duties unsuitable for the other. And it is no more a degradation to the woman, that the man can do some things better than she can, than the fact that the woman has natural superiority in other things.

[HISchick1985]

Hi, Im new to The Good News Cafe but I must reply...I sat under a woman Pastor for 10 years , she was and is very anointed of God. In The Word we can refer to LYdia who housed and likely preached to many.Also Debra was a judge of Isreal for 40 years used to lead many in the way God wanted. I have now moved to another church, the Pastor dont believe wemon should preach. I disagree... He hasnt convinced me, b/c I have seen God do too much through the wemon preachers I know was anointed in the Holy Ghost.

[Holyvessel]

Hi, Im new to The Good News Cafe but I must reply...I sat under a woman Pastor for 10 years , she was and is very anointed of God. In The Word we can refer to LYdia who housed and likely preached to many.Also Debra was a judge of Isreal for 40 years used to lead many in the way God wanted. I have now moved to another church, the Pastor dont believe wemon should preach. I disagree... He hasnt convinced me, b/c I have seen God do too much through the wemon preachers I know was anointed in the Holy Ghost.
Your pastor does not have to convince you , THE word of GOD that does it,



And the women you use as examples :Lydia and Debora , The bible does not say they preach....GOD told Debora to SING not preach... and there is no mention that Lydia preach , your assuming.. if the bible said it happend then i am fine with it but the bible never teach that women are and where called to preach and to be pastors..
An it should not matter how much schooling you have you should alway be ready to learn and to read. espesially when it concerns GOD and HIS WAYS.
Which is the way of Holliness

[Estrada]

Is an awesome example of a woman preacher. It is the Holy Ghost speaking "through" her...She has preached UPC camp meetings, she has prayed for men and had a message from the Lord for them as they have sought the Lord through her "willing vessel" as she yields herself unto him our Creator! I thank God for women of faith who choose to hear from the Lord as "they" are the ones seeking God for what is his "will" for "their" lives the last they should have to endure is criticism from the body of Christ...we should all fear God enough to watch the unruly tongue and keep our opinions to ourself and let the Judge be the Judge its too hard to play God...lol.....his job is just to great for he is worthy of it and he alone! Lord bless you all:nt:

[ddc101]

Holy Vessel,
What it seems to amount to is that you are getting this teaching off another site and copying it and pasting it here.Because those are not your typical conversational language.So why are you not looking the scriptures up yourself and seeing what it says for yourself and posting? Did you not start this thread?

[Janice Alvear]

There are thousands of internet opinions of what the scriptures say...
I am sure thousands in Africa that have been saved directly or indirectly through the Freeman's will rise up and call Sister Nona blessed in that day...

My heart goes out to the true women that have sacrificed so that the gospel could be taken to distant shores...
Strange last night when my husband walked in someone had did a lady preacher wrong and he found out about it...His first words to me were, "I hate that maffa that mistreats ladies..."
I am grateful for a husband that is my covering and we work together in the harvest fields...I know what it is to be alone...
Beloved, I do know quite a bit about the cost of working for God, battleing the all that hell can stir up so that the message will not be told...

[4HimILive]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Truly women preachers are not of God. And hear me and listen good! God will never never call a women to preach. I emphasize moreover that every woman that is up preaching has been sent by the devil out of hell. Truly that is plainly. Look at I Timothy chapter 2 verse 12

I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.

I Corinthinans 14 verse 34-35 teaches that it is a shame from women to preach. Again Isaiah 3 verse 12 says women preachers will lead you to hell.

So, it is very plain that every woman preacher is of the devil

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

Please check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com
What does this dude know anyway. He's just turned 24 years old and been in church not quite four years. He's just a novice who has heard this stuff spewed out across the pulpit somewhere and just repeating what he's been told. Any convo I would have considered with him is over. I'm not interested since it's not his own studies that led him to this conclusion. In addition to the fact that he's young and so blatently rude.

[Janice Alvear]

What does this dude know anyway. He's just turned 24 years old and been in church not quite four years. He's just a novice who has heard this stuff spewed out across the pulpit somewhere and just repeating what he's been told. Any convo I would have considered with him is over. I'm not interested since it's not his own studies that led him to this conclusion. In addition to the fact that he's young and so blatently rude.


Rude I would say...

[4HimILive]

Rude I would say...
I don't mean to come across as rude, sorry.

[Janice Alvear]

My friend: When you have lived among the darkness of paganism as long as I have you would understand why even though you may not believe in women in ministry you can be kind to them. I know lots of people and pastors that do not really believe in women in ministry but they respect them and their endeavors in the Kingdom and leave the final judging to God.
I agree some women are pushy, bold, brazen and out of their place but on the other hand think of the men that get out of their place. So we cannot judge one person by someone else.
Kindness is the law of God. Notice Jesus in the garden: Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus)." John 18: 10 [NIV]
Sometimes anger, fear wanting to be seen, wanting to be a Bible Scholar can make us do the craziest things. Peter found himself clutching a sword and couldn't help using it for the wrong purpose.
Jesus acted quickly to put right the situation; he touched the man's ear and healed him.
So, son learn to speak with kindness…One of the many young pastors I most admire in the states is Brother Steve Pixler. He doesn’t believe in women preachers but I feel comfortable around him and so do other ladies that minister. He is kind to ladies and so godly. One of my sons works out of his church and when my son came to me discussing who he could work under I suggested Brother Pixler! I look up to him as a man of God. If I were to happen to be at his church and the LORD spoke something to me I would go to him he is the watchman for his church. His answer would to me be what God would say to me at that moment. A woman that feels something from God a wise man will give ear to her just as David did to Abigail. A WISE woman will not down men, blast them no MATTER what the circumstances are. She realizes her need for a covering.
I personally make no decisions without consulting with my husband because that is the godly thing and the wise thing to do. In fact I don’t even go anywhere without him knowing it unless we are apart. Then circumstances may arise that some decision would hae to be made but now that our boys are older and if Brother Alvear is not around I usually call one of the boys to see their opinion.
Is is not usually the fact a woman preacher is bossy many woman that hate women preachers scream at their husbands, belittle them in front of the church people, their children and where ever and often run the church behind the scenes…so son you are young and if you are sincere God will lead you and whatever your convictions are on any subject be kind expressing them for there may come a day you may feel different about any given thing.
I have seen people backslide rather than say they were wrong about something. Life is fragile handle it with care. So are friends handle them with care.

[Estrada]

that while her husband was away that she would pastor the church and preach revival that God would heal the lepers at the altar that their withered hands would spring forth and be healed in those services as she laid hands on them and prayed the prayer of faith for them even while she was sick herself...she said as they were being healed....and their heads were bowed in prayer...she would be behind the pulpit and pick up her glass of milk and drink because she was so ill...but, that did not stop the move the God he still was going to do a work through her willing vessel!!! Praise God! For women of God that allow the spirit of God to minister "through" them...it is his spirit and not the individual...you see people are always trying to focus on the man/woman that must not be the focus should be on the spirit! It is by his might and not of our own... One time her husband was so compelled by the Holy Ghost to get the message out that he typed on those old typewriters that barely typed I forgot what she called them and he typed tract after tract of this salvation message took off in a train and she hadn't heard from him in a long time by the time she saw him again his shoes were worn out and blisters were on his feet w/blood from going about Africa on a train he had typed it in their languages...I'm telling you talk about dedication...they did not store up treasure for themselves here on earth...nor were they concerned about a retirement plan they had a revelation we are just passing through this world and we've got a message to declare amoungst the people of this world that Jesus Christ gave every drop of blood that a soul would be saved. My husband and I have traveled throughout many states and parts of Mexico such as Rio Bravo and Mexicali we have prayed with people in many places some of them were saved in those cities and we recommended they attend their local apostolic church. I live here in the USA and I pray for those who feel its allright to drive a 50,000 Lexus and have boats and motorhomes and are out camping all weekend long just having a grand old time...Something inside me never wanted that for myself....its called conviction....it's called being full of that precious oil....Then to see all the trinitarians having food banks, homeless shelters, and out giving gifts to the poor on Christmas and I want to know how many apostolic churches are doing that today...We must always remember the letters written to the churches and say to ourselves there is a judgment day coming there were talents given out and there are going to be those who chose to do what they chose to do with their talents we can not control that situation there are going to be vessels that are not full the bible says so.....what was that oil? I can't speak for others only pray for the world however, I need to be full for myself and teach my children the same because that is my responsibility and I will give an account to God for my own actions and words...I want to give him my very best and at the same time be aware of what the scripture says......Very important...

Jude 1: 22-23....And of some having compassion, making a difference 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

:)

[Brotherminister]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

I just want to plainly put the nail into the coffin of women preachers once and for all time. God has never called, nor sent, nor will God ever call a woman to preach. For preaching is a divine act, calling or function that is solely given unto the man. It is never meant for the woman and if there are any women who are preachers on this forum or that is up preaching then I advise them to sit down before they die and go straight to hell for their error.

In conclusion of the whole matter God has never called a woman to preach, it is truly an offense unto the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ for any woman to do so. For she is in a position that our everlasting God and Saviour Jesus Christ has never put her.

If anyone has any questions please reply to this post, or send me an email at MinisterforChrist@hotmail.com or check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[Janice Alvear]

Not even worth wasting time to answer...

[Moderator]

To whom it may concern.
You may post all the scriptures you want.You may state your ideas and opinions but when you come to the place where you call your brothers and sisters baptized in Jesus name horrible things and condemn them to hell then you need to rethink your own salvation.
To have a teachable spirit is wonderful.
To have a spirit that can teach is wonderful.
For the two to meet in the word and come to understanding is also a beautiful thing.
But when someone sees the word differently than you calling them names and condemning them to hell is far from christian behavior.
The Moderator.

[Janice Alvear]

Thank you Moderators... I agree with you 100%. Sister Alvear

[Deonna]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

I just want to plainly put the nail into the coffin of women preachers once and for all time. God has never called, nor sent, nor will God ever call a woman to preach. For preaching is a divine act, calling or function that is solely given unto the man. It is never meant for the woman and if there are any women who are preachers on this forum or that is up preaching then I advise them to sit down before they die and go straight to hell for their error.

In conclusion of the whole matter God has never called a woman to preach, it is truly an offense unto the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ for any woman to do so. For she is in a position that our everlasting God and Saviour Jesus Christ has never put her.

If anyone has any questions please reply to this post, or send me an email at MinisterforChrist@hotmail.com or check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

Hmmm, I don't see how your above comments put the "nail in the coffin" once and for all. :wah:

[Deonna]

...I live here in the USA and I pray for those who feel its allright to drive a 50,000 Lexus and have boats and motorhomes and are out camping all weekend long just having a grand old time...Something inside me never wanted that for myself....its called conviction....it's called being full of that precious oil....Then to see all the trinitarians having food banks, homeless shelters, and out giving gifts to the poor on Christmas and I want to know how many apostolic churches are doing that today...

Sis Estrada, I'm with you on that. That's exactly how my husband and I feel.

[Brotherminister]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Only devils and those who do not know God fight against the truth of God. For anyone that would condemn me speaking against women preachers are of the devil themselves. And I will not bow you moderators for the truth of God's word will stand supreme for all time. Therefore, I pray that you all repent or perish in hell. And again you are not my brothers or sister for my true brethren are those that do the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[Estrada]

I just thought I would ask :o because you have spoken so boldy against the people of God and have called his "spirit" filled children devils? I don't think you realize what you are saying. My husbands alway says OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE HEART THE MOUTH SPEAKETH....We all need to becareful and definitely not put one another down...for what we believe or how we choose to live for God....Also, why would a man be so overcome with degrading women? I think there may be some other issues here that we all may not be aware of so, if you would stop speaking in that mannerism it would be greatly appreciated..:nt: .towards the body of Christ....the Lords chosen people.....

May I ask have you been filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

[ServantofGod]

Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Sister! you do not know this God that you speak about because you condone something that he condemns which is women up preaching. I belong to First Church of our Lord Jesus Christ under the leadership of Pastor Gino Jennings who is a true man of God and he condemn all women preachers as servants of hell. Please check out our church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Mr. Burton must have helped write that "holiness or hell" website as well.

http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com/

**disclaimer- I am not in favor of the link I just put up**

[ServantofGod]

Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Again! because the book of scripture condemns women preachers and I as a true child of God who believ what the book says I condemn women preachers and everything else that the book condemns. So I emphasize moreover that women preachers are agents of the devil. Here me loud and clear women preachers are agents of the devil who is on their way to hell which is the lake of fire. Do you understand!

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[LilOrphanAnnie]

We understand that you are-

-thoroughly convinced of your own viewpoint
-ungracious, unloving, unmerciful, rude, and offensive

and-

What happens if believers who have obeyed Acts 2:38 just like you have, think that the things YOU have displayed here will send YOU to hell?

Yeah I know, it won't change you one bit. You're thoroughly convinced you're right, and bless God you're going to preach the "truth" despite whatever "opposition". I think all most people asked for was politeness but they couldn't get even that.

:icon_laug

[ServantofGod]

Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Say what you want about me, Brother Jennings, and the truth that we stand on for it is not us that you speak against but the very God that you say that you serve and that you strive to know and to obey. Therefore, I advise you to repent and submit unto the way of Holiness.

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[tufluv]

Mr. Burton must have helped write that "holiness or hell" website as well.

http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com/

**disclaimer- I am not in favor of the link I just put up**
Hey that reminds me, whatever happened to broBishop!
(pastor of that church)?? He used to post here lots.

I miss him, and his love of milk (2% if I recall correctly) :D

[Brotherminister]

We understand that you are-

-thoroughly convinced of your own viewpoint
-ungracious, unloving, unmerciful, rude, and offensive

and-

What happens if believers who have obeyed Acts 2:38 just like you have, think that the things YOU have displayed here will send YOU to hell?

Yeah I know, it won't change you one bit. You're thoroughly convinced you're right, and bless God you're going to preach the "truth" despite whatever "opposition". I think all most people asked for was politeness but they couldn't get even that.

:icon_laug
II John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Therefore, because you've obeyed Acts 2:38 will not justify you to enter the kingdom for that simply puts you into the body of Christ. However, in order to be qualified for the first resurrection then we must abide in the doctrine of Christ which is the doctrine of God. But if refuse to abide in the doctrine of Christ Jesus that you, I, or anyone else do not have God then we will be sent straight to hell. So, I advise you to repent and renounce women preachers before you go to hell.

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[Brotherminister]

Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus.

God never sent men to sugar coat the message of truth but to speak plain, raw, direct and to the point. Only religious spoiled brats would hate the things that I've posted, therefore, I pray you to examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith or not before your end comes.

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton

[Holyvessel]

Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus.

God never sent men to sugar coat the message of truth but to speak plain, raw, direct and to the point. Only religious spoiled brats would hate the things that I've posted, therefore, I pray you to examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith or not before your end comes.

Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark BurtonThe LORD will be the Judge not you , yes we agree that we do not want to have sugar coated truth , but there is a right way of doing it .

Jesus said

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



And when you sign up for this site you agreed to the rules and laws of this site, now here we see you broke the rule and laws, so since you broke GOD law, what law you might ask , you lied and we know what the bible say’s about lying,

you already new before you enter this site that you was going to condemn . So you sin willingly and we know what the bible says about sinning willingly……

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

I am just using the same measure you used on women here.

And since you agree to the rules of this site and you broke them then you are guilty..





Now yes the bibles never called a women to preach . But I can find where the bible calls a woman pastor..

[Oneness]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Brother! you have misinterpreted what Jesus said because you do not have understanding of what Jesus said. For the scriptures justify righteous judgement which is judgement that leans unto the book of scripture. Also, in the book of Acts Peter and another brother was brought before the Jews and they told them to abide by their rules to not preach in the name Jesus. And you know what Peter said, Judge ye whether we should obey God or man. So, I am saying the same thing to you, Judge ye whether we should obey God or man. Therefore, say what you want, call me what you want, if you do not comply with the book then to hell you, and everybody else is going. For God hates wickedness, and he send men to cry boldy, in the rawest, and plainest manner against that which is not right. Because you have condemned me declaring this only proves that you are not of God. Even if you are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and have the Holy Ghost. You still are of the devil out of hell for transgressing God's law.

Please check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com
Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark Burton
The LORD will be the Judge not you , yes we agree that we do not want to have sugar coated truth , but there is a right way of doing it .

Jesus said

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.



And when you sign up for this site you agreed to the rules and laws of this site, now here we see you broke the rule and laws, so since you broke GOD law, what law you might ask , you lied and we know what the bible say’s about lying,

you already new before you enter this site that you was going to condemn . So you sin willingly and we know what the bible says about sinning willingly……

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

I am just using the same measure you used on women here.

And since you agree to the rules of this site and you broke them then you are guilty..





Now yes the bibles never called a women to preach . But I can find where the bible calls a woman pastor..

[tufluv]

:eek:

Here we go again!

:spin:

Guess I was wrong. :shrug:
He's gone again., what a surprise. :grumble:

Surprise back at me - he is NOT banned..was I just seeing things?
Am I "losing it"...? :laugh:

Yikes! :spin:

[Holyvessel]

Greetings! in the name of the one true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Brother! you have misinterpreted what Jesus said because you do not have understanding of what Jesus said. For the scriptures justify righteous judgement which is judgement that leans unto the book of scripture. Also, in the book of Acts Peter and another brother was brought before the Jews and they told them to abide by their rules to not preach in the name Jesus. And you know what Peter said, Judge ye whether we should obey God or man. So, I am saying the same thing to you, Judge ye whether we should obey God or man. Therefore, say what you want, call me what you want, if you do not comply with the book then to hell you, and everybody else is going. For God hates wickedness, and he send men to cry boldy, in the rawest, and plainest manner against that which is not right. Because you have condemned me declaring this only proves that you are not of God. Even if you are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and have the Holy Ghost. You still are of the devil out of hell for transgressing God's law.

Please check out my church's website at http://www.truthofGod.com (http://www.truthofgod.com/)
Peace be unto you!

Yours in Christ service,
Brother Mark BurtonWell yes Peter was told not to do it.

He did not enter into a pack or covenant like you did and you agreed, Peter would never had agree to this site because it prohibits you to speak with condemnation

You have entered into an agreement and broke the law . you lied and then you try to justify it.

You cannot justify sin just as these women try to justify preaching or pasturing.

You are no different from them.

You try to justify your lying actions by the word of GOD and you condemn yourself by the Same word

GOD say we must be perfect with out spot but you have a spot .It’s the spot of lies.



Just like Uzzah try to prevent the Ark from falling and put his hand on it he was struck down by GOD. Uzzah was doing something right but yet GOD struck him DOWN. for going against his WORD..

So would you if you don’t repent from your sins. You have entered twice and agree but yet you broke it again you lied again you sin again.

Peter and the rest of the Holy and perfect apostles never enter into an agreement in which they broke.

[Estrada]

Now since you say you attend church I have some questions for you...How many women are in your church? How are they treated or are they mistreated by you or do they even know your view points on this matter...is this a woman bashing gathering that you attend after you spend lots of time thinking that you are condeming Gods people to hell....here in this fellowship that we have here? Furthermore, if you are a humble man...and if you believe in men in leadership/authority then why are you not humbling yourself to Elder Rutledge who has banned you from being a part of this online fellowship that we have. Would you please respect our dear elder and submit and obey his request to not speak so harsh towards the Lords people here and remove yourself per the boards request... afterall elder Rutledge is a man of God making this request to you and he is not a women so due to that fact alone would you please remove your negative postings and stop this....:icon_craz

[no3gods]

Well yes Peter was told not to do it.


He did not enter into a pack or covenant like you did and you agreed, Peter would never had agree to this site because it prohibits you to speak with condemnation

You have entered into an agreement and broke the law . you lied and then you try to justify it.

You cannot justify sin just as these women try to justify preaching or pasturing.

You are no different from them.

You try to justify your lying actions by the word of GOD and you condemn yourself by the Same word

GOD say we must be perfect with out spot but you have a spot .It’s the spot of lies.



Just like Uzzah try to prevent the Ark from falling and put his hand on it he was struck down by GOD. Uzzah was doing something right but yet GOD struck him DOWN. for going against his WORD..

So would you if you don’t repent from your sins. You have entered twice and agree but yet you broke it again you lied again you sin again.

Peter and the rest of the Holy and perfect apostles never enter into an agreement in which they broke.
I think Holyvessel's points should be taken seriously, and chewed on for awhile.
women should not be allowed to ursurp authority over men. period. does that mean they can't be misionaries? or be an aid to ther husbands in the ministry? no.
the problem with women in a leadership postion is it's more emotions, rather than logic. women are more prone to being deceived than men, for Eve was deceived, but Adam simply transgressed.
it is only in this age of "women's" rights that this is such a big problem. -in my opinon-
el. rushing, from Cal., has a message called "the feminazation of the church". many women, once they feel they've been called, think they are on the same level as a man preacher, and therefore demand the respect they think they deserve, and that is where they get into trouble.

that is not the feeling it get when i hear sis. alvear and her posts. she has a ministry, but i do not beleive she would try to "ursurp" authority over a male preacher.
i think this is the underlining minunderstanding. God can use a women to minister, but the calling of the permanent offices of the ministry, Precher, Teacher, Pastor, Evangalist, Apostle, is for a man. and that is backed by scripture, not emotion.

in Jesus name,
bro. michael

[ddc101]

Get a grip Micheal I have a college education.Women today aren't knots on a log.Grow up.

[Janice Alvear]

I am writing this as my mother is laying in a 3rd world country in fact the poorest state of Brazil dying so it will be a short post. I left the hospital at their request but if she makes it until two this afternoon I will be back they wanted me to get away for a few hours and try to rest or relax so I turned the GNC on!
Even in our grief we must realize we are not alone thousands others are suffering and life is short even at the longest. That is why we must treat each other “fragile handle with care”
It takes finely tuned people to the will of God to express kindness in the mist of disagreement unfortunately “Holy Vessel” does not understand how to express his differences in a kind way. IWhy call some lady a child of the devil and other expressions he used.
The issue is not only over women preachers, it runs deep and long in many areas on the end times, holiness standards, could Jesus sin, and all kinds of things. We become passionate without love, zeal without wisdom in many of our differences. We part bitter enemies and forgot all the good someone may have done for the kingdom of
God.
Above all let us be kind...

[revtonysantucci]

Why look at scripture first. Look in your heart. Does it cry out for the lost. Do you hunger to see your lost loved ones come into the truth. Does Jesus call out in any way he can in your church. Do you believe God has total authority while tuggin on your heartstrings. Is the creator of this world, the one who soothes the hurts that happen in your life. Do you still believe in love. The ministry is for everyone, including women, and children. Now here's bible. "Acts 2:16-21

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
KJV
God is using what he wants, according to what is said here. Including women.

What people need to see is : there are people in the pulpit, who aren't called to preach. They only pay attention to it when it's a woman.

The somoan woman isn't God. Jesus Christ is God. Let God be true and every man a liar

[mefoster]

Very well said Sis. Alvear. Many seem to forget that Christ himself said to have love one to another. Are male pastors devoid of even THIS emotion? or does logic overrule the Love of God? Christ also was not devoid of emotion, and he responded with emotion when he drove the moneychangers out of the temple.

Yes, I am a woman. Yes, I am called of God to minister. But would I purposely offend anyone? purposely be a stumbling block? By the Grace and help of God, no.

Matt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
(I believe I just used scripture, I must have some logic in me somewhere with that college education) :rolleyes:

[Holyvessel]

So what,

Paul was taught by the best in his days

Acts 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
Acts 22:3 ¶I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Paul had a great reusme. But let see what he said about his education
he called his education dung no good

So don't pump your self up too high you might crash on the way down.

[Holyvessel]

I never called any lady a devil

Where you getting that from



All we are talking about is women preacher and if they are called by GOD



In this tread I hear much reason why women are called and why they feel this and feel that. But never bring bible. The Bible is the word of GOD unbreakable

Unmovable never ending never changing.

And to imply that GOD change anything in his word because he love us. Then you don't know GOD.





The true issue is that GOD never called a woman to preach, now for you Sis. Alvear, you have express you opinion on this tread saying that since there is no men of GOD in Brazil to work for GOD that you will do it and GOD will be please. Is just wrong and being deceitful

Let me say this: GOD is LOVE and there is no mistake on that,

And to imply that GOD will override his word for love is a disgrace.

What you think you’re the only one that’s helping the poor or the sick or the suffering…. You’re mistaken and to justify your works it’s just sad.

Yes there are problems in the whole world, the government the people that don’t belief in GOD the people that worship Mary instead of GOD false religion etc... There where there when JESUS came and Left and when he comes again.

I work tirelessly to help everyone in the world. I never know where I going to be or what state I am going to minister at or what Country GOD will send me at. But where ever he sends me I will go and have gone.

And to suffer in these Country having

Stranger spit at you or beat you. I am there to help them and they kick me and want to hurt me because I represent GOD and have the government against you because you try to preach openly in a park or in a corner, having the same police that country shot at you. Yes I know what it is to try to help every one that is poor and sick lame and suffering and yet, they reject GOD they prefer to live a lie.

But I will not use that to justify my calling.

Even if a person that is not called to be a pastor or a preacher, has an obligation to help to give all they have for GOD. And if they don’t well let just say they have to answer to GOD. Every person in the church Men Women and child has an obligation to serve the world that they live in. It’s sad because I see women saying that they are called and they leave the country to go to another state to do the will of GOD as they say.but what about the comunity they left. look out side and you will see the drug dealer the prostitute the drunk the homeless, children without mother living in the streets with out a home here in this country why when GOD called a person they never go where there is truly a need always somewhere comfortable where the most persecution is not having enough money to by a shirt or a tie.



Anyway If a women is called to be a preacher or a pastor of a CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, it must be writing in GOD word, So please don’t give me experience because experience does not qualify as being called. Don’t give me I have done this I have done that, because works does not qualify as being called.

I want bible book chapter and verse.

If is not written then don’t justify yourself, if you feel that also does not qualify you as being called.

felling pity does not qualify anyone as being called.

GOD had mercy on us all.
that why he died for us all but we made a choise to serve GOD with all our souls.

So lady of the cross , just bring bible . Look if any women bring bible that called a them to preach or to be a pastor . bring bible and i will be the first to accept it and advocate for it .....

[no3gods]

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. [/url]13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (qvb://0/anchor/13)14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. -1 Tim 2:12-15

this is from MacArthur's New Testament Commentary: (i can email the entire artilce if you want it. just email me: no3gods@hotmail.com)

The Role of Women

Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. ([url="about:blanksteplinkto4 54 2:11-54 2:12"]2:11–12 (qvb://0/anchor/15))

Paul continues his discussion of women’s duties by defining their role as learners rather than teachers during the public worship. While they are not to be the public teachers in that context, neither are they to be shut out of the learning process as was generally the case in ancient times. The verb in verse 11 (about:blanksteplinkto4 54 2:11) is an imperative form of manthanō (“to learn,” “to be informed”), from which the Greek word translated “disciple” or “learner” derives. When Paul says let a woman … receive instruction, he is not requesting, rather he commands that the women be taught. That Paul is here discussing the order of the church (cf. 3:15 (about:blanksteplinkto4 54 3:15)) shows the learning he speaks of was to take place in that context (cf. Acts 2:42 (about:blanksteplinkto4 44 2:42)). It should be noted that despite the claims of some to the contrary, teaching and worship are not mutually exclusive. Rather, knowledge of God and His Word helps stimulate worship. Worship is to be in spirit and in truth (cf. John 4:20–24 (about:blanksteplinkto4 43 4:20-43 4:24)).

It may seem obvious to us that women should be taught God’s Word, since they are spiritually equal in Christ and the commands of the New Testament are to all (1 Peter 2:1–2 (about:blanksteplinkto4 60 2:1-60 2:2)). It was not at all obvious, however, to those who came from a Jewish background. First-century Judaism did not hold women in high esteem. While not barred from attending synagogue, neither were they encouraged to learn. In fact, most rabbis refused to teach women, and some likened it to throwing pearls to pigs.

Nor was the status of women in Greek society much better. William Barclay writes,

The respectable Greek woman led a very confined life. She lived in her own quarters into which no one but her husband came. She did not even appear at meals. She never at any time appeared on the street alone; she never went to any public assembly. (The Letters to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon [Philadelphia: Westminster, 1975], 67)

[no3gods]

The existence of such a mind-set at Ephesus may have contributed to the reaction of the women against such denigration. Unfortunately, some went too far, overreacting to their suppression by seeking a dominant position. Before Paul confronts that overreaction, however, he affirms their right to learn.

The prevalent Jewish tradition about women did not come from the Old Testament. The Old Testament affirmed that women have a spiritual status equal to that of men. The Mosaic law was given to all Israel, women as well as men (Deut. 1:1 (about:blanksteplinkto4 5 1:1)). Both were to teach it to their children (Deut. 6:4–7 (about:blanksteplinkto4 5 6:4-5 6:7); Prov. 6:20 (about:blanksteplinkto4 20 6:20)). The protection of the law applied equally to women (cf. Ex. 21:28–32 (about:blanksteplinkto4 2 21:28-2 21:32)). Women had inheritance rights (Num. 36:1–12 (about:blanksteplinkto4 4 36:1-4 36:12)). Men and women alike participated in the Jewish religious feasts (cf. Ex. 12:3 (about:blanksteplinkto4 2 12:3); Deut. 16:9–15 (about:blanksteplinkto4 5 16:9-5 16:15)). The single greatest spiritual vow, the Nazirite vow, was open to both men and women (Num. 6:2 (about:blanksteplinkto4 4 6:2)). Women were involved in spiritual service (Ex. 38:8 (about:blanksteplinkto4 2 38:8); Neh. 7:67 (about:blanksteplinkto4 16 7:67)). Nor did God hesitate to deal directly with women (Gen. 3:13 (about:blanksteplinkto4 1 3:13): 16:7–13 (about:blanksteplinkto4 1 16:7-1 16:13); Judg. 13:3 (about:blanksteplinkto4 7 13:3)).

[Holyvessel]

I never called any lady a devil

Where you getting that from



All we are talking about is women preacher and if they are called by GOD



In this tread I hear much reason why women are called and why they feel this and feel that. But never bring bible. The Bible is the word of GOD unbreakable

Unmovable never ending never changing.

And to imply that GOD change anything in his word because he love us. Then you don't know GOD.





The true issue is that GOD never called a woman to preach, now for you Sis. Alvear, you have express you opinion on this tread saying that since there is no men of GOD in Brazil to work for GOD that you will do it and GOD will be please. Is just wrong and being deceitful

Let me say this: GOD is LOVE and there is no mistake on that,

And to imply that GOD will override his word for love is a disgrace.

What you think you’re the only one that’s helping the poor or the sick or the suffering…. You’re mistaken and to justify your works it’s just sad.

Yes there are problems in the whole world, the government the people that don’t belief in GOD the people that worship Mary instead of GOD false religion etc... There where there when JESUS came and Left and when he comes again.

I work tirelessly to help everyone in the world. I never know where I going to be or what state I am going to minister at or what Country GOD will send me at. But where ever he sends me I will go and have gone.

And to suffer in these Country having

Stranger spit at you or beat you. I am there to help them and they kick me and want to hurt me because I represent GOD and have the government against you because you try to preach openly in a park or in a corner, having the same police that country shot at you. Yes I know what it is to try to help every one that is poor and sick lame and suffering and yet, they reject GOD they prefer to live a lie.

But I will not use that to justify my calling.

Even if a person that is not called to be a pastor or a preacher, has an obligation to help to give all they have for GOD. And if they don’t well let just say they have to answer to GOD. Every person in the church Men Women and child has an obligation to serve the world that they live in. It’s sad because I see women saying that they are called and they leave the country to go to another state to do the will of GOD as they say.but what about the comunity they left. look out side and you will see the drug dealer the prostitute the drunk the homeless, children without mother living in the streets with out a home here in this country why when GOD called a person they never go where there is truly a need always somewhere comfortable where the most persecution is not having enough money to by a shirt or a tie.



Anyway If a women is called to be a preacher or a pastor of a CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, it must be writing in GOD word, So please don’t give me experience because experience does not qualify as being called. Don’t give me I have done this I have done that, because works does not qualify as being called.

I want bible book chapter and verse.

If is not written then don’t justify yourself, if you feel that also does not qualify you as being called.

felling pity does not qualify anyone as being called.

GOD had mercy on us all.
that why he died for us all but we made a choise to serve GOD with all our souls.

So lady of the cross , just bring bible . Look if any women bring bible that called a them to preach or to be a pastor . bring bible and i will be the first to accept it and advocate for it .....

[Estrada]

My goodness how long are you going to spend debating these differences through the scriptures...so far through all this has anyones mind been changed over to either side? Obviously not...we can all still abide in the love of God towards one another...we must respect one another at all times regardless of our "opinions" really when you think about it opinions are roaring rampid in this world...this posting back and fourth on this subject obviously is drastically time consuming...why don't you choose to speak about the miracles of God, the grace of God, the love of God and how mighty he is....I'm sure you can find much more "good" postive things to speak about...like encouragement, uplifting your brother/sister, testifying about the goodness of God....as a matter of fact some of you need to put a timer by your computer and time on how much time you really spend on these subjects.....some of that time can be focused in prayer, outreach, making flyers, business cards knocking on your neighbors door we really got to move it church the Lord is going to come and what do you want him to find you doing? Oh, well Jesus I spent about so many hours debating on your daughters in the ministry....hello? Lord bless you

[ddc101]

I know plenty preachers who are called not by God but by mammon.lv sis.c

[Holyvessel]

Well if you think it a waste of time then no need to reply carry on making flyers Etc...



That why we have treads here to discuss difficult subject
I may not be convincing you or any other so called lady pastor.

GOD does the convincing and convicting and dealing with the souls

I just happen to disagree with lady pastor or preachers and I am obligated by GOD to speak on this matter in this forum or in the street or any where that need to be discussed.

I bring bible nothing else; I do not bring my understanding because GOD mind is higher than mine.

As the Scripture says

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

So my opinion is irrelevant, so I must bring Bible his word
2 Tim 3:

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.



But like I said before we have proud women very proud, you can’t tell then not to preach or Pastor GOD forbid... they give 500 reasons why they should and yet it’s not back up by GOD word. Bring me BIBLE not excuses BIBLE simple

If GOD does not mind then it should be backed –up scripturally

[Janice Alvear]

I once heard Sister Nona Freeman say when God called her she told God she didn't believe in women preachers...guess after 40 plus years preaching and thousands of souls in Africa and other places...I guess God convinced her...

[Holyvessel]

I once heard Sister Nona Freeman say when God called her she told God she didn't believe in women preachers...guess after 40 plus years preaching and thousands of souls in Africa and other places...I guess God convinced her...This is one of many examples of not obeying GOD word.



She may have preach to thousand or even millions but was she called?

That’s the question



There is no stopping any Lady or Man from doing anything they want to do.



Example : Like the crusade , they left there land to do the will of GOD by making war against people who did not want to believe in Jesus , Hey they rule the world at that time and no one could stop them, so it was easy to accept that GOD was involved on their behalf . after all they was doing it in the name of GOD and they conquered Jerusalem ..

who can say to them that there wrong and they should stop.

The men had pride and the so called lady pastor have pride also.

I bring bible that say they cannot do such things

they bring excuses and 500 reason and works to imply that they are called.



Bring Bible… You say that GOD called you then you must have scripture backing.





Paul said : that GOD word was manifested by preaching.



TITUS 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;





Look I will bring a story from the BIBLE ,



Uzzah was very happy that the Ark was being return , He knew That no one was to touch the Ark, only the persons that are called where the only one that could handle it (Levi). But Uzzah saw the Ark moving and so he tried to hold it to prevented from falling and GOD struck him down. He was doing something that he felt that was right after all he was preventing the ark from falling and hitting the ground. But GOD still struck him down. David and The rest of Israel mourn him. He was in the right but he was going against GOD WORD..



So what,

the lady did this or did that or you are doing this and doing that. Like I said before WORK’S is not an excuse to say your called.



It also apply to Men who also claim that there Called and there not.
they do works and they have success but there are wrong because they are not called.

[NanaRenan]

She may have preach to thousand or even millions but was she called?

That’s the question



There is no stopping any Lady or Man from doing anything they want to do.
Sister Freeman most specifically did NOT want to go to Africa, even though the CALL to that continent had been impressed on her from a young age. It wasn't until she was at death's door that she submitted and promised she'd go where ever God wanted her to go.

I don't know how you define a "call", but the history and testimony of just that one woman sounds as much like any call I've ever heard any man recount.

[Holyvessel]

Sister Freeman most specifically did NOT want to go to Africa, even though the CALL to that continent had been impressed on her from a young age. It wasn't until she was at death's door that she submitted and promised she'd go where ever God wanted her to go.

I don't know how you define a "call", but the history and testimony of just that one woman sounds as much like any call I've ever heard any man recount.So now we should disregard GOD word because you fell something?



That your defense of the lady...



What about Mother Teresa look at the great works she has done for GOD.



But let’s see what does the bible say’s on this issue



Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[NanaRenan]

What about Mother Teresa look at the great works she has done for GOD.



But let’s see what does the bible say’s on this issue



Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mother Teresa sadly, sacrificed her life caring for the physical bodies of suffering thousands and bearing witness to a false doctrine.

Sister Nona Freeman preached the truth of Acts 2:38 around the world for 50+ years.

There is no comparison.

[Janice Alvear]

Rev 20:12-21:1

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


KJV
All we do and all we say are recorded. Mark Burton you too will stand beside ladies that had led battles, spoke the workd of the Lord both to king and priest, ladies that saved their cities, their people, ladies that angels cursed those that did not help them, ladies that went everywhere along with the men preaching the good news...
All our works will be revealed on that day I counsel you as an old mother of the church not as a woman preacher to lay your fight aside and do what god wants you to do in His kingdom. It is time wasted because a lady that has heard the voice of God is a changed lady forever.
I have fulfilled a mission that God called me to do. I am sure sister Freeman has also and many others.
I have never desired or wanted names or titles.I consider myself an unworthy instrument in the hands of a Divine God yet with a divine mission. I have enough common sense to turn things over to a man when there is one but many times on my journey on the mision field I was all alone.
It is easy to condemn a lady sitting in the riches of america...come visit the snake, spider infested backlands where you cannot even get a drink of cold water. Come to the huts and hovels of the jungles where I have been. Have the indians cook you little frogs to eat, a family bring you cooked cat, eat rats in the backlands among the earth's forgotton ones...
Sit down by a candle light and read the Bible to some pagan worshipper not knowing how you will be recieved...Wonder on what pile of cornshucks you will sleep. Watch a snake wind its way above your head in some area hoping he doesn't fall on you...
I could tell you more about real mission life in many parts of the world...
Take off your white suit throw your copied bible studes to the wind and get a real walk with the Lord. MY son if you will permit me to use this term don't waste your time trying to prove your point if that is what you believe...believe it...but geive your time and talents to the spreading of the gospel...
I must go now am on my way to the hospital...

[NotEven]

1 Timothy 2:11-12 proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” In the church.

God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created
(1 Timothy 2:13) and the way in which sin entered the world (2 Timothy 2:14).

God, through the Apostle Paul, restricts women from being pastors, preaching to, teaching, or having authority over men.

This not because men are always better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not true). That is simply the way God designed the church to function.

Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership – in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative and proclamational role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5).

The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or serving as a pastor / having spiritual authority over men. This does not make women less important, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with how God has gifted them.

The context of 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 is talking about interpreting and understanding the gifts of tongues and prophecy (1 Corinthians 14:26-32).

Therefore, 1 Corinthians 14:34 is not commanding women to be absolutely silent in the church all the time. It is only saying that women should not participate when tongues and/or prophecy is being interpreted and tested (1 Thessalonians 5:19-22; 1 John 4:1).

This is in agreement with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 which says women should not serve as pastors and not teach or have authority over men. If women were involved in deciding whether a prophecy was truly from God, they would be disobeying what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

Therefore, Paul tells women to be silent when tongues and prophecy are being interpreted so that they will not be disobeying 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

[Holyvessel]

Mother Teresa sadly, sacrificed her life caring for the physical bodies of suffering thousands and bearing witness to a false doctrine.

Sister Nona Freeman preached the truth of Acts 2:38 around the world for 50+ years.

There is no comparison.
WOW you call some one false and great works

And you give praises to another that has works and is in disobedience with GOD word

How you justified that?

[Holyvessel]

Rev 20:12-21:1

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


KJV
All we do and all we say are recorded. Mark Burton you too will stand beside ladies that had led battles, spoke the workd of the Lord both to king and priest, ladies that saved their cities, their people, ladies that angels cursed those that did not help them, ladies that went everywhere along with the men preaching the good news...
All our works will be revealed on that day I counsel you as an old mother of the church not as a woman preacher to lay your fight aside and do what god wants you to do in His kingdom. It is time wasted because a lady that has heard the voice of God is a changed lady forever.
I have fulfilled a mission that God called me to do. I am sure sister Freeman has also and many others.
I have never desired or wanted names or titles.I consider myself an unworthy instrument in the hands of a Divine God yet with a divine mission. I have enough common sense to turn things over to a man when there is one but many times on my journey on the mision field I was all alone.
It is easy to condemn a lady sitting in the riches of america...come visit the snake, spider infested backlands where you cannot even get a drink of cold water. Come to the huts and hovels of the jungles where I have been. Have the indians cook you little frogs to eat, a family bring you cooked cat, eat rats in the backlands among the earth's forgotton ones...
Sit down by a candle light and read the Bible to some pagan worshipper not knowing how you will be recieved...Wonder on what pile of cornshucks you will sleep. Watch a snake wind its way above your head in some area hoping he doesn't fall on you...
I could tell you more about real mission life in many parts of the world...
Take off your white suit throw your copied bible studes to the wind and get a real walk with the Lord. MY son if you will permit me to use this term don't waste your time trying to prove your point if that is what you believe...believe it...but geive your time and talents to the spreading of the gospel...
I must go now am on my way to the hospital...My sis you still don't get it.



It not about stat or what have you done, you act like your the only one that been to a very poor Country to minister to people.

I have know and been around Men that gave there live for the Gospel.

We are not talking about works we are talking women who claim to be call to pastor or to preach and they are in disobedience to GOD word.

Trying to Justify it by works... O I done this for the poor or I done that.



And as for being poor at the age of 12 my mother and father abandon me. Was in the streets eating from the trash. In the freezing cold living in abandon houses in-between the wall so the cold wind won’t hit me. Having all my belongings in a bag.

Yes I too needed someone to minister to me did not find one no lady no man for 7 year living like an animal.



My Father left because he had Issue he fought in Vietnam never was the same person again. First time I saw him again at the age of 27. I am 35 now



My Mother left because she could not handle life without my Father. At the age of 25 I saw her, forgave her and him at the 29 after I was reborn.



It’s funny because I remember all the suffering I went thru but there is not feeling.

What I mean is that GOD put a joy in my life now that all the bad times they where many. Have no bearing on my life now. It’s like a dream. I take my kid’s to do personal work and explain to them the life that I lived and the life GOD gave to me to live. now every moment of this new life I spent is to help the homeless and unwanted and the unloved. I do it not because I am called but because it the lease I can do for GOD.

And if you lady that claim to be called. Would have said that you do it out of love for GOD then I know exactly what you mean. Yes I am called not to be a pastor. My calling is to preach and minister. My lovely wife OOOOhh, I am not even worthy to live with. Work for (WOAR) Women Organized Against Rape. And don’t get me started on GOD whom I am not even worthy of serving or living for…

But one thing I will do fervently is defend his WORD.

Any way I had to bring a little history of myself that way you may know a little about you little brother who it telling you don’t disobey GOD WORD because you works will not justify you actions.

Peacebe with you all. I have other things to do right now.. May not replay in a while so if you don’t hear from me don’t be too happy … I be back in a week or so.

[ddc101]

Holy Vessel you are treading on dangerous ground telling Sister Alvear that she is not obeying the word and that her works do not justify her ministering.
Not only here at the Cafe but in the eyes of the Lord.
And btw She is not out of order and does not even claim to be a preacher.She is a missionary and her husband a very used and very Godly pastor of pastors.Shame on you.Apologize to her.You are not justified by your works either.Judging is totally wrong.Since when are you God?

[Janice Alvear]

Sister Cooper tonight you will recieve an e mail from a friend of mine asking for a favor I did not have your phone number so I sent her your e mail. If you want to call her her number 6182390603. Her name is Teresa Compton. You will love her she is so precious just like a daughter to me.
I am on my way to the hospital mother continues worse everyday.
Don't even worry what Holy Vessel says it only shows his lack of wisdom. Eternity will reveal all things...
I love you, my friend. Pray for me during this very dificult time. Sister Alvear

[Estrada]

My husband seems to think that men that are on women bash crusades have a lot of more issues that are not seen to the natural eye. A women can be in the ministry and be in full subjection to her husband and Christ. Why would any man ever think that a women in the ministry is not in subjection? Hello? They are most definitely under subjection and that is the reason why they are there doing the will of God in their lives for him and bringing souls to Jesus by the Holy Ghost power! Yes, they are very much in obedience to their own husbands and the word of God as a matter of fact the husband is the head of the wife and another man should not cross those limits and try to over step his authority and tell his wife that she is not called to do a work for she is under the authority of her husband and Christ..and called into the ministry...:)

[ddc101]

Sister Alvear,
I have not seen the email as of yet.I hope you are doing well and that your mother is resting well.lv sis.c

[Deonna]

Round and round we go and when this will stop, nobody knows....except God (He knows the day of His return). :spin: ;) :yeah:

[estrada1]

Greetings in the Name above all names, I too have overviewed this forum somewhat and happend to see alot of the Brethren belittle the women in the ministry. I would'nt imagine God not wanting to use a willing vessel whom ever it may be. But then again, men wont allow it. Can I ask one question to the men whom disagree with women in ministry or leadership. In the choir most of the women are leaders. In Sunday school, Most of it is by women in leadership. If some of the brethren do have so much against your women in the ministry being used of God. Then try doing it with all men. At times I believe and have seen for myself women used mightly by God. One thing, God also brought them out of darkness into his Marvelous light. it was'nt only men he did that too. What about the fivefold Ministry. Is that only for men only. Let me ask this where does it show you in your bible that Only Men where used of God. Praise the Lord there is some women preachers in here that their husbands are mighty men of God. So why cant we allow God to grow a church unto himself instead of us trying to control it our way. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34). When he wrote the Corinthians, he was dealing with a church that was very disorderly in their services. Much of the letter was spent correcting excesses and abuses. Some of these pertained to women in particular and some were to the entire church. Paul is not being prejudiced against women when he instructs the Corinthian women to keep silence.

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

[EvangFlowers]

Hello Church,

I was reading this post on women preachers and felt compelled to reply with my own post to share what God has done for me. I am a woman (neither here nor there, but for the sake that someone will ask in time LOL) who has been called by GOD to preach. I have been preaching for 11 years now and have been very blessed seeing souls saved and lives changed. I, as most of you have read where Paul was talking to the church of Corinths where they became unruly and were sat down by being told Women are to keep silent in the Church. I also read not even just a few more Scriptures down that Paul even ask the men of that time If the word of GOD came from them only and going on to further ask them if only God spoke to them..and even to saying to them in verse 37......"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38.. "But if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant." Reading in I Cor. chapter 14 verses 34-40...Let all things be decently and in order. Plain and simple enough to see that GOD uses whomsoever will. Just let it be done in order and with decency. But another thing I would like to remind those that are against a person doing a work for GOD due to their gender or race or failures and indifferences.Matthew 23:13 " But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!forye shutup the kingdom of heaven against men, for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."This church is a GOD thing not a male or female thing.. Not a Jew nor Greek thing, It is all about JESUS CHRIST and none other. I don't get up to preach for SIS. Flowers I rise to give the word to see GOD bring deliverance to his people , salvation to them, Healing to their lives, Peace to the souls. The church was built on the men and women of GOD working the field such as the Apostles and Priscilla and Aquila and Prophetess Anna, and Phoebe and the elect lady preaching to the souls.AMEN!The Bibles clearly states in Romans 8:13-14 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14." for as many as are led by the Spirit of GOD, they are the *sons* of GOD."
Are women not led by GOD after being born of water and of the Spirit? yes they are.. SO that makes them the SONS OF GOD... Neither jew nor greek male or female in the eyes of GOD.. just HIS CHILDREN DOING HIS WILL. IF we add to or take away anything to the word of GOD Let us be accursed the Bible teaches. But Let us stand together and work for the Time is short and we soon shall see things come upon this world that will make the biggest trimble. IN JESUS name with love may this bless you that read and hunger to know GODs perfect will. In CHRIST, SIS FLOWERS Preacherladyfullyloaded@apostolic.net

[no3gods]

Hello Church,

I was reading this post on women preachers and felt compelled to reply with my own post to share what God has done for me. I am a woman (neither here nor there, but for the sake that someone will ask in time LOL) who has been called by GOD to preach. I have been preaching for 11 years now and have been very blessed seeing souls saved and lives changed. I, as most of you have read where Paul was talking to the church of Corinths where they became unruly and were sat down by being told Women are to keep silent in the Church. I also read not even just a few more Scriptures down that Paul even ask the men of that time If the word of GOD came from them only and going on to further ask them if only God spoke to them..and even to saying to them in verse 37......"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38.. "But if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant." Reading in I Cor. chapter 14 verses 34-40...Let all things be decently and in order. Plain and simple enough to see that GOD uses whomsoever will. Just let it be done in order and with decency. But another thing I would like to remind those that are against a person doing a work for GOD due to their gender or race or failures and indifferences.Matthew 23:13 " But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!forye shutup the kingdom of heaven against men, for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."This church is a GOD thing not a male or female thing.. Not a Jew nor Greek thing, It is all about JESUS CHRIST and none other. I don't get up to preach for SIS. Flowers I rise to give the word to see GOD bring deliverance to his people , salvation to them, Healing to their lives, Peace to the souls. The church was built on the men and women of GOD working the field such as the Apostles and Priscilla and Aquila and Prophetess Anna, and Phoebe and the elect lady preaching to the souls.AMEN!The Bibles clearly states in Romans 8:13-14 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14." for as many as are led by the Spirit of GOD, they are the *sons* of GOD."
Are women not led by GOD after being born of water and of the Spirit? yes they are.. SO that makes them the SONS OF GOD... Neither jew nor greek male or female in the eyes of GOD.. just HIS CHILDREN DOING HIS WILL. IF we add to or take away anything to the word of GOD Let us be accursed the Bible teaches. But Let us stand together and work for the Time is short and we soon shall see things come upon this world that will make the biggest trimble. IN JESUS name with love may this bless you that read and hunger to know GODs perfect will. In CHRIST, SIS FLOWERS Preacherladyfullyloaded@apostolic.net

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Praise Jesus!

I would like to go back in time for this post.


if you were sitting under Paul’s ministry, would he confirm you the into ministry as a Pastor, Preacher or Evangelist? would he approve of your “calling”?



I know God calls, but He will not go against his word. If what Paul wrote is the commandment of God, the it is the commandment of God! :)



Let’s see what Paul would say to you:



11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. [/url]12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (qvb://0/anchor/12)13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.[u]

I Tim 2:11-14



You can not be a women Pastor, Preacher or Evangelist and obey that scripture, the Word of God.

End of discussion. Anything above and beyond that is emotionalism and feelings. If our society wasn’t so bent on “women’s rights” and “women’s lib” we wouldn’t be having this debate, Paul wouldn't even entertain this discussion.



You need to submit yourself to the word of God for that is the will of God.



--I will email you an interesting article.

-bro. hastings

[Janice Alvear]

I would gladly work with Apostle Paul. Whatever the women did I would do my best to do it. I would not work with some that "think" they know what Paul said because they are mean to say the least to their wife and say nasty things about women in their pulpits.
I really don't think it is the fact if a woman stands behind a pulpit for the first few hundred years there were not even church bulidings much less pulpits.
I think our spirits have a lot to do with who God works through. Just because a man is a "man" does not mean he is capable. Now do not take that wrong. I do believe in order. I believe in headship. I thik there are different stages and levels as the church progresses. There are times that Deborah's are needed. times Ester's are needed, there are times even in a natural buliding some things are needed that are maybe not a permanent part of the building but without those things the building could not have been built. That is the way I PERSONALLY feel that my ministry has been in South America.
In my early days I did a man's job, a woman's job and other people's jobs because I had no help to speak of. Today I do not have to do very much at all...mostly type for the mission...BUT I well remember when I wished for GODLY men and women....today I am surrounded by them but it was not always that way...
A woman that likes to act like a man is completly OUT of her place. But not only in the church world that is true in any aspect of life. There are roles for both men and women. I really don't think it is a woman's job to lay bricks, mix mortar because she is designed by God for But I did it because I didn't have the money to pay a man to do it in those early years and no man was a bricklayer among the first men I won to the Lord...Today I doubt if I could even lay a straight line of bricks because it was so many years ago...but there was a time....
The churches don't even need me today as they have pastor's and workers.
So I say as an old mother, a married woman, a mother of 11 of which 7 are boys and all work in the ministry...4 work as missionaries...others in local ministries...Blessed is the woman that knows how to fill in, step back when it is time, lay a brick if needed, wash dishes, cook and have a good spirit though it all!
One other thing Bible studies on paper are one thing getting there is another thing...so don't try to destroy the tools that just might help you get there...Rather promote a sweet working spirit...Let God be the final judge...what we don't understand or even agree with could be God's doings, so be careful what we say until we are very sure of what we are saying.

[Estrada]

I'm so thankful unto the Lord for his faithful daughters that give him their very best they are so inspiring. I'm very grateful to even be able to read sister Alvears posts. Thank you for all your wisdom and labor for our Lord Jesus Christ and Saviour I'm sure your excited about receiving a crown from your father with many jewels of a soul winner..for you wore many hats in the harves field...:spin: I can't imagine living in another country..I have been to Mexico and Canada but, thats about it. How did your mother fit in Brazil? How was it for her and how did she adjust?

Lord bless you

[Janice Alvear]

I'm so thankful unto the Lord for his faithful daughters that give him their very best they are so inspiring. I'm very grateful to even be able to read sister Alvears posts. Thank you for all your wisdom and labor for our Lord Jesus Christ and Saviour I'm sure your excited about receiving a crown from your father with many jewels of a soul winner..for you wore many hats in the harves field...:spin: I can't imagine living in another country..I have been to Mexico and Canada but, thats about it. How did your mother fit in Brazil? How was it for her and how did she adjust?

Lord bless you

Mother loved to be a missioanry's helper...she loved me and because I love Brazil and mission work she came to love Brazil and mission work. Mother was a prayer warrior. Very seldom did she even get up to testify in church but she sat there and prayed for the pastor and the service. Right now she is still fighting for breath in our hospital. They have called us in several times during the past two weeks but she keeps holding on...Her final resting place will be here with us and then on to glory....
May God bless you it is almost time to leave once again for the hospital...

[Estrada]

I wish I would of had a chance to meet such a beautiful mother. Surely a saint of God. Sister Alvear I call you blessed to have a mother like you is truly a blessing from God. Your mothers love will still shine through you and all she has instilled in you what a beautiful love from a mother to a daughter..what dedication..

[christian]

Hey women preach pretty Good my wife preaches to me all of the time.Ouch here comes that rolling pin again. :icon_craz
All husbands need preaching too ain't that right Sistahs.

[Deonna]

Hey women preach pretty Good my wife preaches to me all of the time.Ouch here comes that rolling pin again. :icon_craz
All husbands need preaching too ain't that right Sistahs.
:tup: :icon_laug

[tufluv]

Hey women preach pretty Good my wife preaches to me all of the time.Ouch here comes that rolling pin again. :icon_craz
All husbands need preaching too ain't that right Sistahs.
Thank YOU..thank you!

What a man!
Brother!

Saved me the trouble and risk of posting such a truth...Heheheheh!!

My husband can attest, that I surely can preach up a storm..'round here..
I exhort him to clean up his mess....OR .. that he may very well..
reap what he sows..all over his nogin!! :eek:

:icon_laug :icon_laug

IF anyone could SEE what I'm talkin about...you'd be standing right alongside me...with a rolling pin..
..and then some! :laugh:

BTW: He knows that I am merely jesting..
and continues to ignore me... :grumble:

After being beat all his life by a much heavier meaner (drunk) man...
I doubt he's afraid of anything or anyone! :yeah:

[no3gods]

oh yah, i forgot. the ends justify the means, regardless of what Pual said. which by the way, is the WORD OF God, not the feelings of wo(man).

with that said, i would like to clarify. i do not mean a women cannot not aid the ministry, but she should not (according to the Bible) Pastor, Preach, Teach or hold authoritive positions over man.

once again, i hold to the bible, not my feelings. for my Pastor's wife has a great speaking ability, but that is not the qualification of a Pastor, preacher, evangalist.

:)

[Estrada]

Then does that mean since they should not teach...that they should not teach Sunday School because that is holding authority over a man??????

Now, a woman can very much be at the pulpit preaching/teaching under the authority/permission of her pastor and husband very much so...Just because she is preaching does not mean she is usurping authority over the man how is that possible a pastor may even be present as well...is that usurping authority?????

[christian]

Well now I was taught to brush my teeth by my Mother she held authority over me.

[no3gods]

what did Paul say?

the very nature of preaching is taking authority, otherwise why would we look to preachers for guidence and instruction?

preachers, teachers, pastors, evangalists, are authorities in the church- therefore those roles should not be held or administered by a women. not because she is inferior spiritually, but because that is the way God set it up.

sunday school is a whole different ball park, since it is dealing with children, and not the guiding and instruction of the body of Christ as a whole.

[Estrada]

But, that is not the answer to my question if the man/pastor is present and the women is preaching under his authority how is that usurping authority over the man. She is preaching under his authority it is done that way in many of churches. If any situation would be out of order he is present to correct it. Such as the choir, song leaders teachers they all report to their pastor. So it is the woman who is preaching in the presence of the saints and the man of God however, that particular church is run. But, when someone comes in saying this ought not be pastor.....they are then attempting to usurp authority over the pastor which would not be the will of God..

[no3gods]

so is it okay if i, being the head of my house, stop working, give permission to my wife to find a job and support us while i and take care of the kids and the house??.....

according to the bible i'd be worse than an infidel, but according to the logic on this thread, it'd be perfectly ok, as long as i approved of it, oversaw it, and felt that i should-regardless of scripture....

to preach requires one have authority, not just from their pastor, but from scripture. if pual said for a women not to teach (and i think the context would show that he's talking about the church, for i don't think they had sunday school in those days anyway) then how can a women preach and obey what paul said:

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a women to teach (i will hold to that he is refering to the 'body' of Christ), nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence." 1 tim 2:9-12

with paul's reference to the fall of man in the next verse, i think we can understand WHY he said this.

"13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

the women was deceived, not the man. this is why they are not/shold not (be) allowed to lead, guide, instruct, teach, preach in the church from the pulpit.

was paul a sexist? no. he just had an understanding of what happened, and what can happen.

some may say or point to women who have not been deceived, but that's not the point. the point is, that they are NOT suppose to be in that position anyway, so the arguement is invalid and null.

[Janice Alvear]

what did Paul say?

the very nature of preaching is taking authority, otherwise why would we look to preachers for guidence and instruction?

preachers, teachers, pastors, evangalists, are authorities in the church- therefore those roles should not be held or administered by a women. not because she is inferior spiritually, but because that is the way God set it up.

sunday school is a whole different ball park, since it is dealing with children, and not the guiding and instruction of the body of Christ as a whole.


If I really believed that what you say then I would never ever under any circumstance let a woman teach a Sunday School class. The Roman Catholic church has always said, "give us a child until he is five and he will always be a Catholic." What is instilled in the early years of childhood are what a child takes with him trhough life...the ole saying the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world...
Silence in the church would mean silence not an off and on thing. I think there are better ways of explaining that scripture...A woman teaches through song, she may testify and give something that a brother might learn, she may exhort in a testimony all of that would go against what you have just said...testifying is more than, "I thank God for the Holy Ghost..." I have heard some mighty testimonies in my life....
The scripture in Tim. was a home sitting if you will read the whole passage...
A woman can be mighty and powerful in God yet she does not have to be bold and brazen...Her motive should not be to get up and show off her knowledge but if she is moved on by the Holy Ghost then it is not her it is the Holy Ghost that is speaking...The HOLY GHOST would never get out of line with God's word.
My dear brother, I have never claimed to be a woman preacher oly a missionary but I have visited thousands of churches when men's wives ruled from the bench without ever saying a word behing a pulpit...so a meek and quite spirit is more than not getting up behind a pulpit or sharing something from the Bible...
Chruch is not a building....for we are living stones, all part of a building...sll have a place...
I must leave in a little while for the hospital my 80 year lod precious mother is dying...or I would share more.
Please, pray about the words you use and try to help women find their place in God. I remember the words of a lady mssionary that once went to China, strange that there are mostly women here working as missionaries when there are so many saved men in the states...must look strange to God sure seems strange here...

[Janice Alvear]

what did Paul say?

the very nature of preaching is taking authority, otherwise why would we look to preachers for guidence and instruction?

preachers, teachers, pastors, evangalists, are authorities in the church- therefore those roles should not be held or administered by a women. not because she is inferior spiritually, but because that is the way God set it up.

sunday school is a whole different ball park, since it is dealing with children, and not the guiding and instruction of the body of Christ as a whole.


If I really believed that what you say then I would never ever under any circumstance let a woman teach a Sunday School class. The Roman Catholic church has always said, "give us a child until he is five and he will always be a Catholic." What is instilled in the early years of childhood are what a child takes with him trhough life...the ole saying the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world...
Silence in the church would mean silence not an off and on thing. I think there are better ways of explaining that scripture...A woman teaches through song, she may testify and give something that a brother might learn, she may exhort in a testimony all of that would go against what you have just said...testifying is more than, "I thank God for the Holy Ghost..." I have heard some mighty testimonies in my life....
The scripture in Tim. was a home sitting if you will read the whole passage...
A woman can be mighty and powerful in God yet she does not have to be bold and brazen...Her motive should not be to get up and show off her knowledge but if she is moved on by the Holy Ghost then it is not her it is the Holy Ghost that is speaking...The HOLY GHOST would never get out of line with God's word.
My dear brother, I have never claimed to be a woman preacher oly a missionary but I have visited thousands of churches when men's wives ruled from the bench without ever saying a word behing a pulpit...so a meek and quite spirit is more than not getting up behind a pulpit or sharing something from the Bible...
Chruch is not a building....for we are living stones, all part of a building...sll have a place...
I must leave in a little while for the hospital my 80 year lod precious mother is dying...or I would share more.
Please, pray about the words you use and try to help women find their place in God. I remember the words of a lady mssionary that once went to China, strange that there are mostly women here working as missionaries when there are so many saved men in the states...must look strange to God sure seems strange here...

[Estrada]

I'm sorry a women is not supposed to work? I hold a full time job sometime working 48 hrs to 56 hr a wk to "help" support my family I also have 5 children with one on the way. I wake up at 2:00am to go to work and I'm home at 12:00pm sometimes exhausted but, I have to do what I got to do to "help" support my family. The women in the bible worked 2 were grinding at the mill...the virtuous women worked as well. However, we prayed and the Lord told my husband he would prosper him if he started a work...well, God answered and after the close of escrow on our home in a state that has a right to work law and minimum wage is about $5hr and believe me to my shock they will offer that at jobs regardless of your schooling and prior work experience this state is bound by that right to work law (I'm from Cali and I had never heard of such a thing) however, we are the children of God and we are not bound by this worlds circumstances.....My husband was not even looking for a job...and the bank that is doing our home loan was so impressed with my husband called back and offered him a loan officer position at 80,000 a year...opened up a new office in our city "created" the position for him!!!! That was God! For he is our creator!! He just went in this company in another state and asked for a home loan!! God is good and the Lord blessed our home and our finances! He "CREATED" a position for my husband and their office is now opened in our city..he gots plane tickets paid for to California, rental car, hotel and everything for training and my husband has no experience in this line of work! God is good and faithful and just!

[Estrada]

I'm sorry but, do you think my husband was happy that his wife had to work so hard..I started working on April 19 of 2004..not at all but, we had to do what we had to do to make it. I have 6 wks until my home is finished being completed and escrow closes and we move in! However, I told my husband maybe I will continue to work 3 days a wk. after escrow closes because my company pays 100% health insurance for my whole family which is great because we are union. However, all accomplishments of our family have been made with much prayer, weeping, intercession and brokeness before our Creator..why because we have needs and love our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! He is our father and he will take care of us...I remember one time on the way home from work I was weeping and praying in the Holy Ghost in my car I pictured all my children and I at my husbands feet laying hands on his feet and praying for God to bless him when I got home the phone rang and it was that company! The man also told my husband he felt led the moment he met him to create a position for him and he is open to the word of God! The Lord is victorious very victorious!

[AnointedByHim]

What does this dude know anyway. He's just turned 24 years old and been in church not quite four years. He's just a novice who has heard this stuff spewed out across the pulpit somewhere and just repeating what he's been told. Any convo I would have considered with him is over. I'm not interested since it's not his own studies that led him to this conclusion. In addition to the fact that he's young and so blatently rude.

If he studied the Word, there are many instances where God used women in the ministry and that includes preaching. The men who don't believe that God uses women as preachers must not have looked in His Word, because it is many places.

BTW, I use to not believe in women pastors until I studied the Word and I am a man.

[perspicuous]

Greetings to the Board.

I salute Sister Alvear and her family for their service to God and thank you!

I'll chime in on this topic.

The Bible mentions prophetesses--Phillips daughters, and Deborah. "Your sons and your daughters shall

prophesy." I don't think we should try to box God in and try to hard to define the phenomenon of women whom

God has used in evangelism, preaching and missionary work. If a Pastor asks a woman to speak, she is not

usurping authority but rather is submitting to authoirty. Let God choose His tools!


However--I agree with no3Gods. I don't believe Paul would have ordained a woman.

Jesus did not.

Paul does salute prominent woman church workers in his epistles, showing they weren't invisible in the apsotolic

Acts Church. Nowhere, though, did he call them Pastors. The Epistlles are full of references to ministers Paul

sent or recommended, and he always set men over the churches.

Look at Stephen--I don't believe he was a Pastor. Yet see how God used him. I think its something like this with

women preachers. So, I think they can teach, preach and even be missionaries--but I believe they should not

be Pastors.

Now as for the sister who asked why so many saved men in America but not many on the mission field--I think I

know the asnwer. What has American culture, education and family life been doing to our boys and young men

for the last forty years? Many don't have the foggiest idea what a man is--they are scattered like sheep, having

no sheperd. They learned male identity from Hollywood, liberal textbooks, and unfit role models that proliferate in

a sexually permissive society as the family breaks down. I know many men don't step up, but don't tell me Betty

Friedan and Gloria Steinem had nothing to do with it.

Churhes today are gaining refugees from a culture war. In other ages, though sin has always been around,

the souls coming into the Church at least understood their own sex role.

Yes, God can make such a man right, and they ahve no excuse if they don't become the man God wants them to

be.

But isn't that what we are all trying to be-what he wants?

God Bless You all.

[no3gods]

I'm sorry but, do you think my husband was happy that his wife had to work so hard..I started working on April 19 of 2004..not at all but, we had to do what we had to do to make it. I have 6 wks until my home is finished being completed and escrow closes and we move in! However, I told my husband maybe I will continue to work 3 days a wk. after escrow closes because my company pays 100% health insurance for my whole family which is great because we are union. However, all accomplishments of our family have been made with much prayer, weeping, intercession and brokeness before our Creator..why because we have needs and love our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! He is our father and he will take care of us...I remember one time on the way home from work I was weeping and praying in the Holy Ghost in my car I pictured all my children and I at my husbands feet laying hands on his feet and praying for God to bless him when I got home the phone rang and it was that company! The man also told my husband he felt led the moment he met him to create a position for him and he is open to the word of God! The Lord is victorious very victorious!
you work! that is totally wrong! .................. :jk:

that was not my point at all. i was saying that the bible says the man is suppose to be the bread winner (if the wife has to help, what can you do about it? you can cut car payments and stuff like that, but sometimes that still doesn't make a one income family livable. my wife has worked before.) and if the man was to neglect that duty, then he would be wrong, no matter that he willingly stopped working or not.

persicuous lived up to his username. i would agree with what he wrote, for, like taco bell, we need to "think outside the box" when discussing God.

Lord bless....

[Estrada]

you work! that is totally wrong! .................. :jk:

that was not my point at all. i was saying that the bible says the man is suppose to be the bread winner (if the wife has to help, what can you do about it? you can cut car payments and stuff like that, but sometimes that still doesn't make a one income family livable. my wife has worked before.) and if the man was to neglect that duty, then he would be wrong, no matter that he willingly stopped working or not.

persicuous lived up to his username. i would agree with what he wrote, for, like taco bell, we need to "think outside the box" when discussing God.

Lord bless....
We are living in a time when one man just can't support the whole family whether he has a job or not no matter what the education is. We are living in a world where the rich seems to get richer..corporate America. However, the Lord is good regardless of this worlds situations. Unfortunately in some of these posts men have began to rise against women and openly state their "opinions" on women in the ministry/working. Thats fine they are entitled to have them however it does not mean they are necessarily right and everyone is going to do an about face and agree with them in reality they should focus on themselves and what are they going to do for the Lord. There are some apostolics here who will hold up a post on how its okay to wear pants/make-up and those are man made "standards" yet, when I read the bible it was written by men who were inspired by the Holy Ghost! So, the Lord must of gave men wisdom to set standard and order in the church! Thank you Jesus! However, there is a lot of love in here just the same maybe some of us don't agree on situations that does not make us not keep the "love" between one another and "unity" unless, bro. Rutledge has to ban someone...lol..lol...he passes judgement on that one and its not very often Thank God..:laugh:

[Janice Alvear]

I understand that there are times a woman has to work on a public job. I taught English for several years to help one of my boys buy a car here in Brazil so he could better take care of the work of the Lord. One suggestions I give to our sisters is consider something you can do from your home and help on the budget.
I do not mean this for our dear precious sister Estrada but I know some people that both husband and wife work two jobs and still cannot meet bills...but if you will look at their life style you will understand why.
It does not take near as much to live as some people think. It takes a lot of money if a person does not plan the meals, has to have name brand clothes, has to eat out and on and on...
Greed is the most dependable of all human passions. It causes us to want more and more, never satisfied.
Sisters, pray about each thing you do. Ask God to help you find bargains. When I am in the states I go to the 2nd hand stores looking for clothes for the people here and for our family.
This is not the case with our dear sister here but some ladies cannot pass a mall, a walmart, a shoestore they are compelled to stop...and usually buy something that is probably not really even needed. Those signs that say save at bargains are really saying spend, spend, spend.
I don't know what this has to do really with women who minister but the Bible does say for the older women to teach the younger women...so this is a little advice..."Usually, if you can pay for something, you don't need it".

[Estrada]

godly advice in any direction in life is surely a blessing thank you sister Alvear. We are very much a conservative family. We do our best to budget and not spend our money unwisely. That alone can be quite risky. I have 5 children to clothe and they dress very nice thanks to a clearance rack..lol...lol...as far as driving fine cars I can't imagine paying for a car payment on what some people have to live on monthly as being the will of God "for myself". I remember a time when brother Morgan preached on the spirit of this world entrapping the people of God through debt so, the Estrada family don't have much debt at all not after that sermon he preached..lol..lol..One time my son came home and seperated his "needs" from his "wants" his teacher had taught him the importance of the two I really had appreciated that very much even though I thought he already knew..lol..lol....I choose not to join this worlds ideas of living with all its lures and attractions I always found the simplier ways in life are most always the best... We want to remain a blessing to others and when I leave this world one day I'd rather feel peace in my spirit to say I chose to believe it was better to give then receive. I want to look back and reflect on my life and accomplishments in God and say I gave it my best shot and did whatever this human body could to help the cause of the ministry and furthering of the gospel of Jesus Christ thats more important than life itself. This opportunity of for my husband came by the mercies of God because he knew what would become of this job for him and where we were going to go with it. Believe it or not by right now my husband is at a photo shoot with him in his suit and sweater for advertising for the company..His photo representing the company and contact numbers will be advertised in Washington, Idaho and Oregon...Can you imagine? Apostolics in business..lol..lol..Well, Lord prosper us as you will so that we can be a help to others! Our church members are in shock! Not only that they are testifying to others about this and the people are asking questions how did this come about? Did you have experience in this line of work? Well, it all started with groanings that cannot be uttered...it all started with intercession before our God who is a prayer answering God! Who is able to do all things a God who made us a promise and kept his very words! A God whom showed great mercy on his beloved children! I appreciate Good News Cafe I got to hear the testimony of the Alvears so powerful, sincere, and true. I couldn't of asked for more and many others. Lord bless you all and sister Alvear one day hopefully I'll get to go to Brazil! That would be nice!

[Janice Alvear]

You are welcome anytime to come my precious sister. I love you.

[CESARG]

Hi there people,

I read many items regarding women preacher on the thread. Just a question either for the idea of non women preacher or pro women preacher. Why did Jesus Christ picked 12 MEN where in fact Jesus have a WOMAN and a blessed mother MARY to be an apostles and to have the anointing and preaching the Gospel of God revealled? Jesus Christ could have picked MARY the blessed to preach and why is that isn't so? Please don't be offend and please no none sense and out of context answers.

There are things which may look rigth but ends up wrong and there are things which looks wrong but at the end is rigth. This does not imply to what Jesus has done but rather to our answers to the above questions. Please no emotional answers but biblically sound answers
Thank you.
God Bless in Jesus name.
Bro Cesar

[tufluv]

Hi there people,

I read many items regarding women preacher on the thread. Just a question either for the idea of non women preacher or pro women preacher. Why did Jesus Christ picked 12 MEN where in fact Jesus have a WOMAN and a blessed mother MARY to be an apostles and to have the anointing and preaching the Gospel of God revealled? Jesus Christ could have picked MARY the blessed to preach and why is that isn't so? Please don't be offend and please no none sense and out of context answers.

There are things which may look rigth but ends up wrong and there are things which looks wrong but at the end is rigth. This does not imply to what Jesus has done but rather to our answers to the above questions. Please no emotional answers but biblically sound answers
Thank you.
God Bless in Jesus name.
Bro Cesar
Mary an apostle? Where is that stated?
I know that she was there in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, and did receive the infilling of the HG..as did the other 119., and now many of us also have received this holy gift., praise GOD.

I'm not sure where you're going with your comments...and btw, Welcome to this Cafe, I see this is your first post., I've noticed many new posters beelining to this thread. :D

[survivor4christ]

God Bless!

If a man of God, be it a pastor, a bishop, an apostle, or whatever his role of leadership in the local church...

If that man of God allows a woman to preach, teach, exhort a body of believers, that man of God has delegated authority to that woman to do so, thus she is not usurping authority over anyone.

An example of a woman (or man) usurping authority over a congregation would be if in a testimony service if a woman starts off testifying and ends up preaching. Or if asked to give announcements and they start testifying. That is out of order. A man or a woman can usurp authority over a service.

How so with a man?

If a man does anything in the service that has not been delegated, approved or sanctioned by the pastor, the Holy Ghost in the pastor, that is out of order.

If a man or woman starts a group on their own w/o prior permission from the pastor, such as a cell group, a prayer group, a class, or the such, that is out of order and usurping authority.

The thing about authority is that it has to be given by those in authority. When one submits to one in authority over them, be that in a marriage or in ministry, this is the proper order.

In the kingdom of God, there is neither male or female. I heard a preacher say that if we still look at the vessels of God as male or female that we are not operating in the Spirit, but in the flesh. Speaking in tongues and all. Dancing around the church and such. But in the flesh.

My bible says to judge NO man after the flesh. Male flesh, female flesh, black flesh, white flesh, Puerto Rican flesh, flesh dressed in Versace, flesh in a polyester suit. NO flesh...

We are operating in the kingdom when we can look at each other and see the Spirit of God instead of gender, or class, or race, or ethnicity.

Love, Sis. Wenona

[LadyRev]

Hi there people,

I read many items regarding women preacher on the thread. Just a question either for the idea of non women preacher or pro women preacher. Why did Jesus Christ picked 12 MEN where in fact Jesus have a WOMAN and a blessed mother MARY to be an apostles and to have the anointing and preaching the Gospel of God revealled? Jesus Christ could have picked MARY the blessed to preach and why is that isn't so? Please don't be offend and please no none sense and out of context answers.

There are things which may look rigth but ends up wrong and there are things which looks wrong but at the end is rigth. This does not imply to what Jesus has done but rather to our answers to the above questions. Please no emotional answers but biblically sound answers
Thank you.
God Bless in Jesus name.
Bro Cesar

Welcome to the Cafe. :)

Theres already quite a long thread on this topic that you may want to browse.

Check out the "Women Keeping Silent In The Church" thread.

And just food for thought...it would have looked a bit strange for Jesus to have women with him as disciples in his day considering they traveled from place to place all the time, slept outside, didn't have a set meeting place, etc. I doubt his mother would have cared for that kind of life much either. ;)

[Sister Alvear]

Bro. Cesar:

Strange Jesus told the women to go and tell...Of course the men were hiding behind locked doors!...
Just teasing you my brother...I will not fuss on this issue just had a funny thought when I read your post...

[jhlent]

God Bless!

If a man of God, be it a pastor, a bishop, an apostle, or whatever his role of leadership in the local church...

If that man of God allows a woman to preach, teach, exhort a body of believers, that man of God has delegated authority to that woman to do so, thus she is not usurping authority over anyone.

An example of a woman (or man) usurping authority over a congregation would be if in a testimony service if a woman starts off testifying and ends up preaching. Or if asked to give announcements and they start testifying. That is out of order. A man or a woman can usurp authority over a service.

Love, Sis. Wenona
Close – and still good.

A simple definition of usurp is -

Seize and take control without authority – to take authority that does not belong to you.

To usurp authority is NOT gender specific - it is something done by - man, woman, boy or girl… Not gender or age specific

So for a woman to usurp authority it also could pertain to her driving the chariot when he should have…. Maybe even as far as to say…. she was throwing out the garbage when he should have….. NO NO – that last illustration was no good to use – simply because well you see…. The garbage was in the kitchen and we ALL know that the Kitchen is a WOMAN’s DOMAIN…. :ninja:

[tufluv]

Bro. Cesar:

Strange Jesus told the women to go and tell...Of course the men were hiding behind locked doors!...
Just teasing you my brother...I will not fuss on this issue just had a funny thought when I read your post...
Sister (and not to fuss either) but JESUS told the women to deliver a message from HIM to them (apostles)...that HE would be in 'town' soon to visit with them.(para)
So many people take this as a message of the gospel, and while the women were excitedly reporting their 'sighting' of JESUS to those apostles, the job given them by JESUS was to deliver that particular message.

I suppose we can say it was a two-fold message/mission. :D
Couldn't report that message without also including the fact that JESUS had indeed RISEN! :bow: and thus able to send an in-person message. Praise GOD!

[Sister Alvear]

I am at a borrowed computer so I do not want to take up too much time but isn't it wonderful that He arose and because of this our GOD is different from all the "gods" of this world. His tomb is empty...Oh, praise God for that. Blessings to all.

[Estrada]

and praise the Lord Jesus is still telling sisters to deliver messages today...because he is still speaking and his sheep know his voice that still small voice they can still hear it today! Amen

[CESARG]

Mary an apostle? Where is that stated?
I know that she was there in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, and did receive the infilling of the HG..as did the other 119., and now many of us also have received this holy gift., praise GOD.

I'm not sure where you're going with your comments...and btw, Welcome to this Cafe, I see this is your first post., I've noticed many new posters beelining to this thread. :D


Sorry if the implication of blessed means an apostle to you but surely is not to be so. Simply, Mary inspite of her nearnest to Jesus as an earthly mother would have been given the anointing to preach if woman are allowed to preach at all. I probably say that Jesus would not since at the begining woman are supposed to be under subjection to man. Very simple I just feel sorry for women who would want to praise God in her own way rather than Gods way. Sorry but since time change some women think they can equal men in this respect. God made you the way you are and God can't be wrong it is just we do things we want because we think we can offer more to God by doing things equally with man. Please with due respect I don't mean you are a lesser human, I know some women more witty and talented than some men but it does not give women any liberty to do equally as man does for still they are under subjection to man. Thanks and praise God.

[tufluv]

CESARG:
Sorry if the implication of blessed means an apostle to you but surely is not to be so.
No I did not say nor think that "blessed" = apostle, don't know how you reached that conclusion., but thats okay. ;) Posting by Internet isn't always the clearest way to communicate., as would be speaking in person, LIVE.
Please with due respect I don't mean you are a lesser human, I know some women more witty and talented than some men but it does not give women any liberty to do equally as man does for still they are under subjection to man. Thanks and praise God.
I have never considered myself, nor even been treated as, a lesser human, :banana: and have never claimed that we women are considered in that light, although some other women that have posted before on this very long thread, have seemed to have that complaint.

I am perfectly content with how GOD made me, and the role(s) that HE assigned to women., my, we have so-o much to do already, and to contribute to HIS work as well, is an honor.
I am very blessed indeed to have been given a "pardon" by JESUS., and am free now to proclaim HIS name and goodness to anyone crossing my path..I don't need, nor seek, a 'pulpit' to do it from, either. :D

I started a poll sometime back on this topic of gender equality(?), you might check it out., although its too late to vote, it was a fun thing to do, and interesting to catch others opinions.
http://goodnewscafe.net/showthread.php?t=6115

I LOVE my JESUS! There is one other thread I started not long ago either called "In Love"...regarding this., as well.
http://goodnewscafe.net/showthread.php?t=6330

Glad to have you on this forum, although you haven't posted much, there is much to read in our archives..on related topics. Just 'search' :yeah:

[LadyRev]

I probably say that Jesus would not since at the begining woman are supposed to be under subjection to man. Very simple I just feel sorry for women who would want to praise God in her own way rather than Gods way. Sorry but since time change some women think they can equal men in this respect. God made you the way you are and God can't be wrong it is just we do things we want because we think we can offer more to God by doing things equally with man. Please with due respect I don't mean you are a lesser human, I know some women more witty and talented than some men but it does not give women any liberty to do equally as man does for still they are under subjection to man. Thanks and praise God.

The scripture makes it plain from Genesis through the New Testament that the HUSBAND would rule over the wife and the wife is to submit to her OWN husband.

The scripture does NOT support ALL men being over ALL women. A woman does NOT submit herself to all males simply because they are male. As the church, the bride of Christ, is espoused to ONE husband, Jesus Christ, and the church submits to Christ, so the wife submits to her OWN husband. OWN husband meaning ONE, not plural.

[Berean]

God Bless!

If a man of God, be it a pastor, a bishop, an apostle, or whatever his role of leadership in the local church...

If that man of God allows a woman to preach, teach, exhort a body of believers, that man of God has delegated authority to that woman to do so, thus she is not usurping authority over anyone.

An example of a woman (or man) usurping authority over a congregation would be if in a testimony service if a woman starts off testifying and ends up preaching. Or if asked to give announcements and they start testifying. That is out of order. A man or a woman can usurp authority over a service.

How so with a man?

If a man does anything in the service that has not been delegated, approved or sanctioned by the pastor, the Holy Ghost in the pastor, that is out of order.

If a man or woman starts a group on their own w/o prior permission from the pastor, such as a cell group, a prayer group, a class, or the such, that is out of order and usurping authority.

The thing about authority is that it has to be given by those in authority. When one submits to one in authority over them, be that in a marriage or in ministry, this is the proper order.

In the kingdom of God, there is neither male or female. I heard a preacher say that if we still look at the vessels of God as male or female that we are not operating in the Spirit, but in the flesh. Speaking in tongues and all. Dancing around the church and such. But in the flesh.

My bible says to judge NO man after the flesh. Male flesh, female flesh, black flesh, white flesh, Puerto Rican flesh, flesh dressed in Versace, flesh in a polyester suit. NO flesh...

We are operating in the kingdom when we can look at each other and see the Spirit of God instead of gender, or class, or race, or ethnicity.

Love, Sis. Wenona

Sister Wenona,

Praise Jesus. This philosophy has already been refuted many times over on this message board by myself and others.

1 Timothy 2:12 says that the woman is not allowed to teach the man or usurp authority over him.

Now if a pastor 'delegates' a woman the authority to violate the Word of God in 1 Timothy 2:12, 'he' is out of order, and just as out of order as the woman who feels this pastor has such 'authority' to delegate.

Nobody can 'delegate' a woman authority to sin. This is all the same as a pastor 'delegating' a woman the authority to fornicate with him, another violation of the Word of God. If she would say 'no' to the fornication, she should say 'no' to teaching the man and having authority over him.

When God's Apostle commands 'no,' then any man who 'delegates' a 'yes' is out of order and himself and all who follow him are sinners because they are violating the Word.

Show me in Scripture where God's Word said 'no' and a 'man of God' said 'yes' and God was okay with that violation.

Show me once and I'll believe you, otherwise your philosophy should be rejected in Jesus' Name.

Agape to you Sister from Brother Berean

P.S. God has said 'no' to women teaching men and having authority over them, and any woman who defies 1 Timothy 2:12 has definitely 'usurped' that authority. Yes she 'took it by force,' because God has not allowed her to have it. If I don't allow you to have something of mine, and you go and have it anyway in spite of my word, then you have 'taken it by force!'

[tufluv]

Sister Wenona,

Praise Jesus. This philosophy has already been refuted many times over on this message board by myself and others.

1 Timothy 2:12 says that the woman is not allowed to teach the man or usurp authority over him.

Now if a pastor 'delegates' a woman the authority to violate the Word of God in 1 Timothy 2:12, 'he' is out of order, and just as out of order as the woman who feels this pastor has such 'authority' to delegate.

Nobody can 'delegate' a woman authority to sin. This is all the same as a pastor 'delegating' a woman the authority to fornicate with him, another violation of the Word of God. If she would say 'no' to the fornication, she should say 'no' to teaching the man and having authority over him.

When God's Apostle commands 'no,' then any man who 'delegates' a 'yes' is out of order and himself and all who follow him are sinners because they are violating the Word.

Show me in Scripture where God's Word said 'no' and a 'man of God' said 'yes' and God was okay with that violation.

Show me once and I'll believe you, otherwise your philosophy should be rejected in Jesus' Name.

Agape to you Sister from Brother Berean
:eek:
Get your face mask (like pitchers wear) on, brother..I'm sure there's a heap of tomato's to come flyin at ya.. :D

And no doubt lots of knashing of teeth...for your illustration.
FTR, I see what you mean., moreso, that GOD is serious.

*ducking as well*
*leaving for a much needed vacation* :D

[LadyRev]

1 Timothy 2:12 says that the woman is not allowed to teach the man or usurp authority over him.


This is God's order for the HOME. This is NOT speaking of CHURCH order.

To say otherwise is to make Paul look like a blubbering idiot. Paul is one of the very ones that said that women would prophesy IN CHURCH.

If you don't LEARN something, if you don't OBTAIN KNOWLEDGE from prophesy, what does it profit? What is its purpose?

I Cor. 14:3-4
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


Exhortation means...

persuasive discourse, stirring address
instructive, admonitory, conciliatory, powerful hortatory discourse.



And...once again...ALL WOMEN are NOT subject to ALL MEN. Men in general do NOT rule over women in general. This is NOT scriptural.

You can harp about "creation order" if you like. It doesn't change a thing. Creation order determined who became the head of the family it did NOT determine who became the head of the church.

Therefore, a woman that preaches/teaches in the church is NOT usurping authority over the men because ALL men do NOT have authority over her.

To say that ALL men have authority over ALL women is as ludicrous as saying that ALL pastors throughout the world have authority over ALL laity throughout the world simply by virtue of being a pastor.

Its not only impossible, its not scriptural.

[dllong]

(1Co 14:34) Let your5216 women1135 keep silence4601 in1722 the3588 churches:1577 for1063 it is not3756 permitted2010 unto them846 to speak;2980 but235theyarecommanded to be under obedience,5293 as2531 also2532 saith3004 the3588 law.3551

(ducking from Tufluv)

:-)

[Berean]

(1Co 14:34) Let your5216 women1135 keep silence4601 in1722 the3588 churches:1577 for1063 it is not3756 permitted2010 unto them846 to speak;2980 but235theyarecommanded to be under obedience,5293 as2531 also2532 saith3004 the3588 law.3551

(ducking from Tufluv)

:-)

Why are you ducking from Tufluv brother? Maybe you should duck from Lady'Rev.'

LOL!

:icon_laug

[tufluv]

Berean:
1 Timothy 2:12 says that the woman is not allowed to teach the man or usurp authority over him.
..and also in 1Tim.3:5 it says:
"..for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of GOD"?
Sounds like its the man's job to take care of the church of GOD..as long as his family is also in ruled in GOD's order..man being the head of the home...GOD being the head of the CHURCH...

[WantToBeProv31]

Berean:

..and also in 1Tim.3:5 it says:
"..for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of GOD"?
Sounds like its the man's job to take care of the church of GOD..as long as his family is also in ruled in GOD's order..man being the head of the home...GOD being the head of the CHURCH...


The first thought I had when I saw this post was "OOOH, GOOD ONE!!!"

But, then that might make it seem like there are two opposing teams here :D

There is no getting around the fact that MEN are called to be the elders of the church of God. But, some people will go to extraordinary lengths to show that the Bible does NOT mean what the Bible means :bore:

I always love it when I see you write about how we women have sooo much the Lord has given us to do, WHY do we want to try to take on the men's role too?

I think it is the same crazy spirit that makes women want to go into the work force and compete with men there.

God help the women that are trying to fill the man's role AND their own God given roles. They are asking for heartache and undue stress.

I feel for all the women of today who think this is normal and okay and that they are supposed to be exhausted all the time (mentally and physically).

Oh, but I digress. It is just that both of these issues bother me and they are related IMO.

Sister, keep up the good work. :)

[tufluv]

The first thought I had when I saw this post was "OOOH, GOOD ONE!!!"

But, then that might make it seem like there are two opposing teams here :D

There is no getting around the fact that MEN are called to be the elders of the church of God. But, some people will go to extraordinary lengths to show that the Bible does NOT mean what the Bible means :bore:

I always love it when I see you write about how we women have sooo much the Lord has given us to do, WHY do we want to try to take on the men's role too?

I think it is the same crazy spirit that makes women want to go into the work force and compete with men there.

God help the women that are trying to fill the man's role AND their own God given roles. They are asking for heartache and undue stress.

I feel for all the women of today who think this is normal and okay and that they are supposed to be exhausted all the time (mentally and physically).

Oh, but I digress. It is just that both of these issues bother me and they are related IMO.

Sister, keep up the good work. :)
Thanks sister, your comments are so true, women take on more (sometimes by necessity, of course) than is needed..with the breakdown of the 'family unit' seen more in this generation than ever, a mother/wife can be the determing factor in keeping a traditional family unit together, BY standing firmly within her GODgiven gender roles, against the 'darts' of the devil, who seeks only to "break up" marriages/families.

Commenting on the words I bolded above, No, there should not be two opposing sides, in fact there is only ONE side, GOD's side, and HE has already spoken., if people don't want to listen, obey, that doesn't change one 'dot' or 'period' of HIS Word.
I am not posting scripture for to 'win' any side, {and I'm glad that you can discern that}; I was chosen to be on the winning [GOD's] side years ago., I cherish HIS Word., as my necessary food., Who in their right mind/soul would want to taint this nourishment?
GOD desires that we be in UNITY abiding in HIM..and not fighting over what HIS Word means. :bow:

[LadyRev]

Berean:

..and also in 1Tim.3:5 it says:
"..for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of GOD"?
Sounds like its the man's job to take care of the church of GOD..as long as his family is also in ruled in GOD's order..man being the head of the home...GOD being the head of the CHURCH...


...and also in 1Tim 5:14 it says:
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Definition of guide:

Strong's Number: 3616
Definition:
to be master (or head) of a house
to rule a household, manage family affairs

Sounds like its BOTH the man's job and the woman's job to rule the house, in God's order.

Qualification for leadership in the church is contingent upon successful leadership in the home by BOTH men and women.

And lastly, in regards to the word "man"...

The word "man" as used in I Timothy 3 (and many other places) is defined as "whoever, whatever" (as shown below). That doesn't sound "gender" specific to me.

If you insist that the word "man" in I Timothy 3 is gender specific and therefore exclusively "male", then you must apply other scriptures, that use the same word "man", in the same manner, excluding women. To be consistent that is...consistent being a key word.


Definition of "man" (as used in the scriptures below):

Strong's Number: 1536
Original Word Word Origin
ei[ tiß from (1487) and (5100)
Definition:
whoever, whatever

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)


Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Re 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

and the list goes on...

:beammeup:

:realmad:

:banana:

[LadyRev]

There is no getting around the fact that MEN are called to be the elders of the church of God. But, some people will go to extraordinary lengths to show that the Bible does NOT mean what the Bible means :bore:

This is your opinion and you are entitled to it. ;)

But in my opinion (an opinion shared by many), the only ones going to "extraordinary lengths" are those that oppose women preachers.

Man-made doctrine has complicated things but truth is always simple. ;)

I think it is the same crazy spirit that makes women want to go into the work force and compete with men there.

So...you believe that all women that don't agree with your views have a "crazy spirit" making them do things like entering the work force and preaching the gospel?

You believe that all women that don't agree with your views and are doing things you don't believe they should be doing, are simply doing so because they want to "compete with men"?

My my...sounds somewhat like the religious folks of Jesus' day. They even went as far as to call Jesus Beelzebub for the works that He did.

God help the women that are trying to fill the man's role AND their own God given roles. They are asking for heartache and undue stress.

I feel for all the women of today who think this is normal and okay and that they are supposed to be exhausted all the time (mentally and physically).

Yes, we certainly do need God's help. Whether we are in the work force or not, whether we preach or not, we all need God's help to do what God would have us to do.

No, we are not asking for heartache and undue stress by obeying the call of God to preach the gospel. On the contrary...disobedience to the call would most certainly be asking for heartache and undue stress.

[LadyRev]

(1Co 14:34) Let your5216 women1135 keep silence4601 in1722 the3588 churches:1577 for1063 it is not3756 permitted2010 unto them846 to speak;2980 but235theyarecommanded to be under obedience,5293 as2531 also2532 saith3004 the3588 law.3551

(ducking from Tufluv)

:-)

You got the "duck" right brother. :laugh:

:icon_laug

[tufluv]

Its amazing the lengths that rebellious women will go to undermine the role of the man in the home..and church. :grumble: I wouldn't call any of them 'friend', 'sister', nor wish to have anything to do with 'em., as some already know but persist! :realmad:
On the other hand I praise GOD for the sisters who do also understand that GOD doesn't want nor need us, HIS precious daughters, us out there pretending to be as men., (i.e. the human race members that can get a woman :eek: pregnant- man and woman are different).

GOD is not mocked. Its not so unusual that there are some women that think they are equal with men. This social "ill" , as well as bibilical disregard, is decades old already and they're all around us, I see them everyday..our society is now a twisted conglomeration of broken homes, promiscious women, (singing 'whats good for the goose is good for the 'gander' as their children grow up without GOD in their lives); so "proud" of their accomplishments, but the bible says that "pride" goeth before destruction., sadly, their 'day' is coming. UNLESS they repent., I know that I am grateful that I had that merciful last chance from GOD. :bow:

I do feel sorry for men, (i.e. the human race members that can provide 'fruit' for the procreation of more humans), though., and thankfully the ministors and pastor's wives I've had the privilege to know, are humble, submissive to biblical order, being the 'helpmeet' to their husbands and great role models for us sisters..here. Their men can be proud to called them wife, their children to call her mother. ;)

Thankfully here , in the JESUSname org, that I was baptized in, the men of GOD do understand and obey GOD's WORD as regards women being in church leadership roles that GOD meant, for men only..in HIS HOLY WORD.
:banana: No 'language' or translation barrier, here. :yeah:
GOD is so-o good! :icon_danc

[LadyRev]

Its amazing the lengths that rebellious women will go to undermine the role of the man in the home..and church.

Undermine? On the contrary...a wise woman preacher encourages the role of the man and helps him to be complete. Likewise, a wise man preacher encourages the role of the woman and helps her to be complete.

The church, the bride of Christ, is not complete without BOTH men and women. We need each other.

This isn't about undermining, hating, or feminizing men. This is about working for God together, as one. For the body of Christ has many members yet we are one.

We are ALL (not just the men) kings and priests unto Him...

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Definition of priesthood:

Strong's Number: 2406

Definition:
the office of a priest
the order or body of priests


3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Definition of king:

Strong's Number: 936

Definition:
to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign
of the governor of a province
of the rule of the Messiah
of the reign of Christians in the millennium
metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control

Definition of priest:

Strong's Number: 2409

Definition:
a priest, one who offers sacrifices and in general in busied with sacred rites
referring to priests of Gentiles or the Jews,
metaph. of Christians, because, purified by the blood of Christ and brought into close intercourse with God, they devote their life to him alone and to Christ

[tufluv]

Back to the main question of this thread, in case I may not have made my response clear, I say FTR:


YES!!
as long as any woman is conducting herself, outside of GOD's ORDER..that should be obvious., questioning or twisting HIS Order is a HUGE identifying mark.
:bow:
THIS is my last post on this topic., I feel that the HG is being grieved.
Posts are getting just too-oo repetitious..and even ridiculous.

[LadyRev]

Back to the main question of this thread, in case I may not have made my response clear, I say FTR:


YES!!
as long as any woman is conducting herself, outside of GOD's ORDER..that should be obvious., questioning or twisting HIS Order is a HUGE identifying mark.


Thank God that all the women preachers I know are WITHIN God's order.

And thankfully they aren't questioning nor twisting His order but rather they are being submissive to God's order...GOD being first, then the husband if married, then the pastor and so on.

Thank God for MEN that submit to God's order as well. Instead of setting themselves up "as God" they acknowledge Him as the ultimate head, not esteeming themselves higher than they ought.

[LadyRev]

Its amazing the lengths that rebellious women will go to undermine the role of the man in the home..and church. :grumble: I wouldn't call any of them 'friend', 'sister', nor wish to have anything to do with 'em., as some already know but persist! :realmad:
On the other hand I praise GOD for the sisters who do also understand that GOD doesn't want nor need us, HIS precious daughters, us out there pretending to be as men., (i.e. the human race members that can get a woman :eek: pregnant- man and woman are different).

GOD is not mocked. Its not so unusual that there are some women that think they are equal with men. This social "ill" , as well as bibilical disregard, is decades old already and they're all around us, I see them everyday..our society is now a twisted conglomeration of broken homes, promiscious women, (singing 'whats good for the goose is good for the 'gander' as their children grow up without GOD in their lives); so "proud" of their accomplishments, but the bible says that "pride" goeth before destruction., sadly, their 'day' is coming. UNLESS they repent., I know that I am grateful that I had that merciful last chance from GOD. :bow:

I do feel sorry for men, (i.e. the human race members that can provide 'fruit' for the procreation of more humans), though., and thankfully the ministors and pastor's wives I've had the privilege to know, are humble, submissive to biblical order, being the 'helpmeet' to their husbands and great role models for us sisters..here. Their men can be proud to called them wife, their children to call her mother. ;)

Thankfully here , in the JESUSname org, that I was baptized in, the men of GOD do understand and obey GOD's WORD as regards women being in church leadership roles that GOD meant, for men only..in HIS HOLY WORD.
:banana: No 'language' or translation barrier, here. :yeah:
GOD is so-o good! :icon_danc

:huh:

FTR - Any woman that opposes this posters view is rebellious, is not a friend nor a sister, is pretending to be a man (that can impregnate women), and is likened unto promiscuous women.

I guess I should feel honored and privileged. Especially since Jesus was falsely accused and even referred to as Beelezebub...

:spin:

[Abigail4476]

Its amazing the lengths that rebellious women will go to undermine the role of the man in the home..and church. I wouldn't call any of them 'friend', 'sister', nor wish to have anything to do with 'em., as some already know but persist!

On the other hand I praise GOD for the sisters who do also understand that GOD doesn't want nor need us, HIS precious daughters, us out there pretending to be as men., (i.e. the human race members that can get a woman pregnant- man and woman are different).

GOD is not mocked. Its not so unusual that there are some women that think they are equal with men. This social "ill" , as well as bibilical disregard, is decades old already and they're all around us, I see them everyday..our society is now a twisted conglomeration of broken homes, promiscious women, (singing 'whats good for the goose is good for the 'gander' as their children grow up without GOD in their lives); so "proud" of their accomplishments, but the bible says that "pride" goeth before destruction., sadly, their 'day' is coming. UNLESS they repent., I know that I am grateful that I had that merciful last chance from GOD.

I do feel sorry for men, (i.e. the human race members that can provide 'fruit' for the procreation of more humans), though., and thankfully the ministors and pastor's wives I've had the privilege to know, are humble, submissive to biblical order, being the 'helpmeet' to their husbands and great role models for us sisters..here. Their men can be proud to called them wife, their children to call her mother.

Thankfully here , in the JESUSname org, that I was baptized in, the men of GOD do understand and obey GOD's WORD as regards women being in church leadership roles that GOD meant, for men only..in HIS HOLY WORD.

No 'language' or translation barrier, here.

GOD is so-o good!

Tufluv, according to your stringent interpretation of these scriptures, you are not even supposed to be on this forum speaking about spiritual matters, since that could qualify as teaching. (There are men who read here.)

Regardless, your post is way over the top. As usual you have included no names, but that does not keep the implications and insinuations from hitting the mark, and you know it very well.

Here's an example:

Tufluv is eating an orange.

Abigail says nothing directly to Tufluv, but tells a friend close by that "All women who eat oranges are of the devil."

Then, when tufluv is offended, Abigail says, "I didn't say you were of the devil--I said all women who eat oranges are of the devil." That would be a ridiculous denial, and you know it.

Don't think for a moment that you are going to get by with name-calling, insult flinging or any other kind of flaming, disrespectful behavior on the GNC simply because you don't include a username or real name next to the insult or in your post. You've already been warned by Bro. Rutledge to keep things toned down. I strongly suggest that you heed his warning.

The truth is, when you make such implications, you are including godly women who have devoted their entire lives to working for the kingdom of God, and have done so with godliness, femininity, while in submission to their elders. Such women include (but aren't limited to):

Sis. Alvear
Sis. Nona Freeman
Sis. Oma Ellis
Sis. Vesta Mangun
Sis. Thetus Tenney
Numerous female missionaries
Female Sunday School teachers
ddc101
LadyRev

To name a few.

Be careful who you sling insults at. God isn't pleased when one of his children is wrongly accused. You may disagree with their actions or beliefs, but that never gives you the right to attribute foul motives for their actions or beliefs. I would think that you could at least acknowledge that there are women who are teachers, leaders, preachers, ministers and missionaries who do so simply because they feel God wants them to, because they are devoted to Him, and not because they wish to steal anything from any man.

I appreciate that (for the most part, unless I have missed something) Berean and other men have been able to amicably discuss their differences with Sis. Alvear, ddc, LadyRev and others without stooping to slinging mud at their ankles and accusing them of rebellious, masculine natures who only want to replace men for whatever reason. You would do well to follow their examples and post scriptures and logical reasoning for your opinions, rather than just ranting about how you thank God you aren't like "those women."

[tufluv]

[QUOTE]I would think that you could at least acknowledge that there are women who are teachers, leaders, preachers, ministers and missionaries who do so simply because they feel God wants them to, because they are devoted to Him, and not because they wish to steal anything from any man.
I have..but of course that would not be noted.
Sister Alvear, knows where I stand in regards to her and her husbands ministry., and I know from her that she has not been offended by anything I've said about rebellious women. I've posted before, how I feel about her and missionary work in general..but again, thats never noted.

Sis Cooper and I also have an understanding and are friends., if you really want to know exactly how I personally feel about this topic, feel free to email me., I can explain in detail., I wish you wouldn't just jump to conclusions., as I mentioned to you already.

All this I've said has been said in response to your post to me, I really don't need to have others jump in and join the bandwagon, so to speak, I have countless times been disrespected as well, but that doesn't seem to count. :shrug: And really I am no one to anyone, but GOD., I'm glad for at least, that., oh, and a husband and sons, that love me.
Again, my apologies to all, I may have more to say later. :bow:

[Abigail4476]

All this I've said has been said in response to your post to me, I really don't need to have others jump in and join the bandwagon, so to speak, I have countless times been disrespected as well, but that doesn't seem to count. :shrug: And really I am no one to anyone, but GOD., I'm glad for at least, that., oh, and a husband and sons, that love me.
Again, my apologies to all, I may have more to say later. :bow:

Tufluv, I seem to recall a few weeks back when you were not the only one corrected for misbehavior and inappropriate posts, so you are not being unduly "picked on."

Being corrected by a moderator in no way indicates whether you are "loved" or not. I'm just doing my job, and in this instance, its not all that enjoyable.

[Berean]

...and also in 1Tim 5:14 it says:
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Definition of guide:

Strong's Number: 3616
Definition:
to be master (or head) of a house
to rule a household, manage family affairs

Sounds like its BOTH the man's job and the woman's job to rule the house, in God's order.

Qualification for leadership in the church is contingent upon successful leadership in the home by BOTH men and women.

And lastly, in regards to the word "man"...

The word "man" as used in I Timothy 3 (and many other places) is defined as "whoever, whatever" (as shown below). That doesn't sound "gender" specific to me.

If you insist that the word "man" in I Timothy 3 is gender specific and therefore exclusively "male", then you must apply other scriptures, that use the same word "man", in the same manner, excluding women. To be consistent that is...consistent being a key word.


Definition of "man" (as used in the scriptures below):

Strong's Number: 1536
Original Word Word Origin
ei[ tiß from (1487) and (5100)
Definition:
whoever, whatever

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)


Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Re 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

and the list goes on...

:beammeup:

:realmad:

:banana:

Dear ALL,

This post is evidence of the utterly ridiculous argumentation of women ministers, pastors, and those who support them. Quote the qualifications of an overseer to a 'female overseer' to demonstrate how they don't meet the qualifications, and you may get some equally ridiculous theory.

Quoting 'guide the house' to mean 'rule the house.'

So a woman rules the house? Well, her husband is in the house, so does the woman rule the husband?

The husband definitely rules the wife (Genesis 3:16), therefore the woman cannot qualify to take care of the house of God, because the husband rules her. The woman does not rule the man, therefore her rule is not one of Spiritual authority. Sure she is to take care of the household affairs, but many of them don't even do that! To take care of household affairs does not mean that the woman rules the house or the husband. The husband is in charge, and IF you think that the woman's rule over the house is equal to or greater than the man's rule over the house, you are rebellious.

You love quoting other Scripture where 'man' means 'mankind,' but you neglect to quote the Scripture where 'man' means a literal 'man' and NOT a woman. Let me help you out here, Sis.

Matthew 1:19 - Then Joseph her husband, being a just MAN, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Matthew 7:9 - Or what MAN is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Matthew 8:9 - For I am a MAN under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this MAN, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Matthew 8:27 - But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of MAN is this, that even the winds and the sea obey HIM!

And the list goes on, and on, and ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

There are one thousand six hundred and fifty-eight uses of the word 'MAN' in Scripture, New Testament alone, and many of them are not referring to 'man or woman/mankind' but instead are referring to 'man' specifically.

The key is context. Since 'man' is used in 1 Timothy 3's list of qualifications of an overseer, and the pronouns 'he' and 'his' are used, it is likely that 'man' used in the text cannot include women.

When you consider the rule of the house (which includes the people in the house because it speaks of the children), only a husband is implied and the interpretation is sure.

I pray that nobody is deceived by your dishonest use of the Word of God here. Don't quote other Scriptures as if 'man' used in the Scripture refers not to 'male only,' but instead to 'man or woman/mankind.' You are wrong, and there are MANY places where 'man' in Scripture does refer to 'male only.'

1 Timothy 3 is one of those places, on the list of qualifications for an Overseer.

Your argument is intellectually dishonest, bias, ridiculous, although quite amusing to refute!

Agape to you from Brother Berean

[LadyRev]

Dear ALL,

This post is evidence of the utterly ridiculous argumentation of women ministers, pastors, and those who support them. Quote the qualifications of an overseer to a 'female overseer' to demonstrate how they don't meet the qualifications, and you may get some equally ridiculous theory.

"Ridiculous theory" is your opinion and nothing more. There are many MEN and women of God that disagree with YOUR opinion.

Once again, as mentioned on the "other" thread, I'm sure your "brethren" will be happy to read your opinion of them.

Quoting 'guide the house' to mean 'rule the house.'

So a woman rules the house? Well, her husband is in the house, so does the woman rule the husband?

The text speaks for itself. Even the ENGLISH definition of GUIDE supports what I previously posted.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=guide&x=12&y=16

Main Entry: 1guide
Pronunciation: 'gId
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Old Provençal guida, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English wItan to look after, witan to know -- more at WIT
1 a : one that leads or directs another's way b : a person who exhibits and explains points of interest c : something that provides a person with guiding information d : SIGNPOST 1 e : a person who directs another's conduct or course of life.


According to scripture, the woman is the GUIDE to the home. This is her GOD GIVEN responsibility.

A wise husband recognizes this and is not threatened by this. Its GOD's plan, whether you like it or not.

I can't help that you obviously don't like the definition of GUIDE.

The wife is a HELPMEET, not helpMATE. This means that MAN needs HELP and God designed the woman to help by guiding the home. God has given her this responsibility and she will be held accountable to GOD.

A wife doesn't have to ask her husband's permission for every little thing around the house that needs doing. She has GOD GIVEN authority to take care of the home, the husband, the children. And her husband should TRUST in her to where he doesn't hover over her like a domineering tyrant type boss! If the husband CAN'T trust her, then obviously theres problems.

The wife fulfils her God given role UNDER the authority of her husband.

Proverbs 31: 1 - 31
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. 25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. 26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. 27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her. 29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. 30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. 31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

You think the Proverbs 31 woman didn't have any "authority"??? Think again and read again.

You think the Proverbs 31 woman ran to her husband asking permission to do the things she did? I think NOT!

The husband definitely rules the wife (Genesis 3:16), therefore the woman cannot qualify to take care of the house of God, because the husband rules her.

Genesis 3:16 speaks of the marriage relationship only. God's order for the HOME. It was NOT speaking about CHURCH order.

To take care of household affairs does not mean that the woman rules the house or the husband. The husband is in charge, and IF you think that the woman's rule over the house is equal to or greater than the man's rule over the house, you are rebellious.

According to scripture, (which you have NOT refuted successfully), the woman is indeed the HEAD of the house UNDER the headship of her husband. Both GREEK and ENGLISH definitions of the word GUIDE support this.

Christ is the HEAD overall, the husband is the HEAD of the wife UNDER the headship of Christ, the wife is the HEAD of the house UNDER the headship of Christ and her husband, and the children are under all of the above.

This has nothing to do with who has "equal or greater rule". Each has God given authority to fulfil their God given roles in the home.

The husband has greater responsibility overall as he is to LOVE his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. He is to nourish and cherish his wife even as his own body. Too many husbands today aren't willing to GIVE themselves. They want the headship, they want to "be the boss" but they don't want the overall responsibility. They point their fingers back at the wife when things go wrong. Such men are in the rebellion to God's word and yet they have the nerve to point fingers at the wife.

You love quoting other Scripture where 'man' means 'mankind,' but you neglect to quote the Scripture where 'man' means a literal 'man' and NOT a woman. Let me help you out here, Sis.

Oh I wasn't "neglecting" the scriptures where "man" means a literal "man" and not a woman. It just so happens that the verses used against women preachers DO NOT use the "literal" word for man but rather use the word "man" that means: WHOEVER, WHATEVER.
"Whoever and whatever" is a far cry from being "gender" specific. :D

The key is context. Since 'man' is used in 1 Timothy 3's list of qualifications of an overseer, and the pronouns 'he' and 'his' are used, it is likely that 'man' used in the text cannot include women.

Context is only PART of the key. Due to the way scripture is written, it is necessary to study the meaning of the words used when the exact same english word, with multiple meanings, is used multiple times.

Also, pronouns (he, she, his, him, her) do NOT determine whether scripture is gender specific or not.

For example...

The word "man" in the following verse is NOT gender specific. But according to YOUR interpretation of I Timothy 3, the word HE would cause it to be specifically referring to MEN only.

Joh 3:5 -
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When you consider the rule of the house (which includes the people in the house because it speaks of the children), only a husband is implied and the interpretation is sure.

And I suppose children are only required to obey their FATHER and not their mother? A mother doesn't RULE her children? I think you are mistaken.

there are MANY places where 'man' in Scripture does refer to 'male only.'

I never said otherwise. You are twisting things now.

Of course there are MANY places in scripture where "man" refers to male only. There are also MANY MANY places in scripture where "man" refers to mankind, WHOEVER, WHATEVER...as in I Timothy 3.

Your argument is intellectually dishonest, bias, ridiculous, although quite amusing to refute!

You have failed to refute anything I have posted. My argument is not dishonest, bias, ridiculous or amusing.

I believe the readers can judge for themselves. And I challenge you to do more than offer your mere opinions...give us something of substance.

[tufluv]

Abigail:
Tufluv, I seem to recall a few weeks back when you were not the only one corrected for misbehavior and inappropriate posts, so you are not being unduly "picked on."
Sure, whatever you say. I wouldn't want to be in your 'moderator' shoes., it can't be much fun, but someone has to do it, I guess.

[Berean]

"Ridiculous theory" is your opinion and nothing more. There are many MEN and women of God that disagree with YOUR opinion.

Once again, as mentioned on the "other" thread, I'm sure your "brethren" will be happy to read your opinion of them.



The text speaks for itself. Even the ENGLISH definition of GUIDE supports what I previously posted.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=guide&x=12&y=16

Main Entry: 1guide
Pronunciation: 'gId
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Old Provençal guida, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English wItan to look after, witan to know -- more at WIT
1 a : one that leads or directs another's way b : a person who exhibits and explains points of interest c : something that provides a person with guiding information d : SIGNPOST 1 e : a person who directs another's conduct or course of life.


According to scripture, the woman is the GUIDE to the home. This is her GOD GIVEN responsibility.

A wise husband recognizes this and is not threatened by this. Its GOD's plan, whether you like it or not.

I can't help that you obviously don't like the definition of GUIDE.

The wife is a HELPMEET, not helpMATE. This means that MAN needs HELP and God designed the woman to help by guiding the home. God has given her this responsibility and she will be held accountable to GOD.

A wife doesn't have to ask her husband's permission for every little thing around the house that needs doing. She has GOD GIVEN authority to take care of the home, the husband, the children. And her husband should TRUST in her to where he doesn't hover over her like a domineering tyrant type boss! If the husband CAN'T trust her, then obviously theres problems.

The wife fulfils her God given role UNDER the authority of her husband.

Proverbs 31: 1 - 31
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. 14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. 25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. 26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. 27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her. 29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. 30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. 31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

You think the Proverbs 31 woman didn't have any "authority"??? Think again and read again.

You think the Proverbs 31 woman ran to her husband asking permission to do the things she did? I think NOT!



Genesis 3:16 speaks of the marriage relationship only. God's order for the HOME. It was NOT speaking about CHURCH order.



According to scripture, (which you have NOT refuted successfully), the woman is indeed the HEAD of the house UNDER the headship of her husband. Both GREEK and ENGLISH definitions of the word GUIDE support this.

Christ is the HEAD overall, the husband is the HEAD of the wife UNDER the headship of Christ, the wife is the HEAD of the house UNDER the headship of Christ and her husband, and the children are under all of the above.

This has nothing to do with who has "equal or greater rule". Each has God given authority to fulfil their God given roles in the home.

The husband has greater responsibility overall as he is to LOVE his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. He is to nourish and cherish his wife even as his own body. Too many husbands today aren't willing to GIVE themselves. They want the headship, they want to "be the boss" but they don't want the overall responsibility. They point their fingers back at the wife when things go wrong. Such men are in the rebellion to God's word and yet they have the nerve to point fingers at the wife.



Oh I wasn't "neglecting" the scriptures where "man" means a literal "man" and not a woman. It just so happens that the verses used against women preachers DO NOT use the "literal" word for man but rather use the word "man" that means: WHOEVER, WHATEVER.
"Whoever and whatever" is a far cry from being "gender" specific. :D



Context is only PART of the key. Due to the way scripture is written, it is necessary to study the meaning of the words used when the exact same english word, with multiple meanings, is used multiple times.

Also, pronouns (he, she, his, him, her) do NOT determine whether scripture is gender specific or not.

For example...

The word "man" in the following verse is NOT gender specific. But according to YOUR interpretation of I Timothy 3, the word HE would cause it to be specifically referring to MEN only.

Joh 3:5 -
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.



And I suppose children are only required to obey their FATHER and not their mother? A mother doesn't RULE her children? I think you are mistaken.



I never said otherwise. You are twisting things now.

Of course there are MANY places in scripture where "man" refers to male only. There are also MANY MANY places in scripture where "man" refers to mankind, WHOEVER, WHATEVER...as in I Timothy 3.



You have failed to refute anything I have posted. My argument is not dishonest, bias, ridiculous or amusing.

I believe the readers can judge for themselves. And I challenge you to do more than offer your mere opinions...give us something of substance.

You and I obviously disagree, no need to discuss further. All of the questions and challenges you have ever sent my way, I have answered and refuted at some point or another. I only post against these theories of yours for the benefit of other readers.

:)

[Revivalist]

I dont normally write on any women vs man preacher threads but I do believe this one has gotten to the point that it isnt becoming to either " so called" side. I dont believe arguing will change anyones mind and sway them to change there opinion and believe something different. It has gotten way past discussion into a big insulting match

Whether ( Brain freeze and cant remember how to spell that word) it be man or woman preacher stand back and let God promote your ministry. If its a God called thing there will be plenty of fruits

[ddc101]

Back to original topic post.
Is Women preacher wrong?
Which women preacher?
What poor syntax.

[LadyRev]

You and I obviously disagree, no need to discuss further. All of the questions and challenges you have ever sent my way, I have answered and refuted at some point or another. I only post against these theories of yours for the benefit of other readers.

:)

You are right, we do disagree and will have to agree to disagree. ;)

There are some basic questions you have not answered but I was not really expecting an answer so I'll just let it go at that.

[LadyRev]

I dont normally write on any women vs man preacher threads but I do believe this one has gotten to the point that it isnt becoming to either " so called" side. I dont believe arguing will change anyones mind and sway them to change there opinion and believe something different. It has gotten way past discussion into a big insulting match

Whether ( Brain freeze and cant remember how to spell that word) it be man or woman preacher stand back and let God promote your ministry. If its a God called thing there will be plenty of fruits

You spelled "whether" correctly. ;)

As for fruit, I agree with you. But many discount that as proof.

[Revivalist]

well then it luks leyek my fonix has once agin werked fer me

[Revivalist]

If they get hungry enough they wont mind if the fruit is an apple or orange as long as it feeds them and satisfies the hunger pains they are having.

:photo: Gee Im suprising myself with such wisdom of analogies

[LadyRev]

If they get hungry enough they wont mind if the fruit is an apple or orange as long as it feeds them and satisfies the hunger pains they are having.

:photo: Gee Im suprising myself with such wisdom of analogies

~L~ You are right! I like the analogy. :D

[LadyRev]

Tufluv & Berean and possibly others,

Please accept my apology for anything I have posted that may have been offensive and/or insulting.

Sometimes in the heat of discussion, things tend to turn personal when opposing views are presented. Without the benefit of hearing voice tones and seeing facial expressions, it is easy for text to come across harsh and personal.

It is not my intention to hurt anyone nor do I disrespect anyone as a person based on differing views. No matter what your view is regarding women preachers, you are still my brothers and sisters in Christ. And family members don't always agree on everything.

Tufluv, although we have differing views, I have nothing against you as a person. I was sincere when I posted in regards to your health and I did pray for you when you posted your need on the prayer request board. I'm sorry my words have hurt you. Since I have hurt you publically, I felt like I needed to apologize publically.

Berean, I enjoy discussing this topic with you even though we will probably never agree. I can't help but respect the fact that you obviously take this topic very seriously, as do I.

Since Tufluv probably has me on ignore, could someone please forward this post to her via PM or email? Thanks.

[Berean]

Tufluv & Berean and possibly others,

Please accept my apology for anything I have posted that may have been offensive and/or insulting.

Sometimes in the heat of discussion, things tend to turn personal when opposing views are presented. Without the benefit of hearing voice tones and seeing facial expressions, it is easy for text to come across harsh and personal.

It is not my intention to hurt anyone nor do I disrespect anyone as a person based on differing views. No matter what your view is regarding women preachers, you are still my brothers and sisters in Christ. And family members don't always agree on everything.

Tufluv, although we have differing views, I have nothing against you as a person. I was sincere when I posted in regards to your health and I did pray for you when you posted your need on the prayer request board. I'm sorry my words have hurt you. Since I have hurt you publically, I felt like I needed to apologize publically.

Berean, I enjoy discussing this topic with you even though we will probably never agree. I can't help but respect the fact that you obviously take this topic very seriously, as do I.

Since Tufluv probably has me on ignore, could someone please forward this post to her via PM or email? Thanks.

Sister I do believe that this is sincere. No hard feelings, okay?

I love you with Agape, unconditionally. You know that the Word commands the same of yourself, and I am sure that you feel the same as I do in that regard.

Your apology is accepted and I appreciate the spirit that you have shown here. Our doctrinal wars aside, know that I love you my Sister in Christ Jesus. May the Lord judge between us, and have mercy upon us both, is my prayer. I believe that we can disagree without being violently disagreeable, verbally speaking of course!

May you be blessed in Jesus' Name from Brother Berean

[Bro: Dan Rowe]

i believe that anyone could preach as long as its their calling and they are annointed by the word of god. i don't believe that they are supposed ti just sit around whie the men do everything. i believe god can even use a little kid to preach to a whole congegation.

[ddc101]

i believe that anyone could preach as long as its their calling and they are annointed by the word of god. i don't believe that they are supposed ti just sit around whie the men do everything. i believe god can even use a little kid to preach to a whole congegation.
Hi Welcome to the GNC.I believe a kid can preach it up under the annointing.lv sis.c

[nosey1]

What i think about a woman preacher is that if they could somehow stay femine when they send out a rebuke or preach, or point the finger, but i've just doen't know how a woman could breath, correction, fire, brimstone toward a man in a femine role. Just a thought

[LadyRev]

What i think about a woman preacher is that if they could somehow stay femine when they send out a rebuke or preach, or point the finger, but i've just doen't know how a woman could breath, correction, fire, brimstone toward a man in a femine role. Just a thought

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Scripture, the word of God, reproves, corrects, instructs. The man or woman is simply an instrument for God to speak through.

[jhlent]

Tufluv & Berean and possibly others, (JHLent) Hey this means ME also....:rolleyes:

Please accept my apology for anything I have posted that may have been offensive and/or insulting. (JHLent) NO I will NOT..!..!..!
NOT till you send me some dear meat.... since you now only live down the road a few hours...

It is not my intention to hurt anyone nor do I disrespect anyone as a person based on differing views. (JHLent) yes it is it's in your nature... once you come out of the kitchen a woman turns Mean:flame:
I will await you peace offering of a tenderloin & roast to show forth your Real apology :ninja:





waiting & hiding also from woman with rifle...

[LadyRev]

I will await you peace offering of a tenderloin & roast to show forth your Real apology :ninja:





waiting & hiding also from woman with rifle...


LOL! I'm only bowhunting at the present time and haven't been successful yet. Early gun season is a few weeks away yet.

However, when I do bag a deer, I'd be happy to share a roast or something. When you coming this direction???

[rachel28]

I am new and I have heard that women preacher are not found in the bible.
So my question is Will God use a woman to preach or is that just for men?

Women preachers are right. A women preacher prayed me through with the holy ghost and baptize me. She was anointed from God to do the work of the ministry. Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; :12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of christ: It did not say anywere men or women in this scripture. Philippians 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life. Galatians 3:28. 1Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. It doesn't say man or woman its say they. Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus. Romans 10:14,15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? they again. Acts 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas; this woman was full of good works and aimsdeeds which she did. Isaiah 61:1 The spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. Read all 1Cor 12:1-31 Especially verse :6
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. :7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. :11 But all these worketh that one and the selfame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. God give his gifts for all his children. You see there is too many scriptures that proves that he is God and his in charge of the church and his people. Not men ruler of each other, but he is. Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. If women be silent in church, then women can't testify in church how good God is, women can't speak in tongues or sing or teach sunday school. It says to be silent, but thats not what it really says. So if that is really what it means, then I will ask my husband at home if I can speak in church. HEHE. Love you In Jesus Name

[ddc101]

I still keep wondering which woman preacher is wrong.....note the thread title....Is woman preacher wrong? Could have been a thread to look at a news revue or something!!!:icon_craz

[Berean]

Women preachers are right. A women preacher prayed me through with the holy ghost and baptize me. She was anointed from God to do the work of the ministry. Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; :12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of christ: It did not say anywere men or women in this scripture. Philippians 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life. Galatians 3:28. 1Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. It doesn't say man or woman its say they. Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus. Romans 10:14,15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? they again. Acts 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas; this woman was full of good works and aimsdeeds which she did. Isaiah 61:1 The spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. Read all 1Cor 12:1-31 Especially verse :6
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. :7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. :11 But all these worketh that one and the selfame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. God give his gifts for all his children. You see there is too many scriptures that proves that he is God and his in charge of the church and his people. Not men ruler of each other, but he is. Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. If women be silent in church, then women can't testify in church how good God is, women can't speak in tongues or sing or teach sunday school. It says to be silent, but thats not what it really says. So if that is really what it means, then I will ask my husband at home if I can speak in church. HEHE. Love you In Jesus Name

Praise the Lord,

These arguments, all of them, have already been refuted time and time again. Read the old threads.

Agape to you from Brother Berean

[Logos_on_Fire]

Hello...
I believe that women have a ministry in testimony and preaching to the women of the faith. The women of God must be teachers, and maintain good testimonial credit for the younger women growing up in the faith. Having said this, I believe that there will be times when women will preach, even in the midst of the congregation, but not from the pulpit which is traditionally maintained for men; as this is the responsibility of Godly men in the family unit/body of Christ. I hope this is helpful, and well, I can provide scripture if you desire. God Bless!
Who can separate GOD?

Logos on fire

[angelindesguise]

I not know strange American custom of pulling the legs of women...we do not do dat in Samoa!!! But I know one thing, we do not give Samoan shell projectifier microphone to no woman!!! Oh, I forgot one thing, we let dem shell clams too, not just feed babies. Too bad so sad pants on fire you miss out on great words of Samoan warrior!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :yeah: :wah:

[searching]

I don't know if women preachers are wrong anymore than men preachers being wrong, but one thing I know for sure is that people using bad grammar are ALWAYS wrong!!

[wahaneebelly]

Why do you think God is only speaking to women or those who are for pro-women preachers. Maybe God is speaking to men who are a bunch of couch potatos....like get of your rear ends and do your job instead of forcing the women to do it....just a thought.And I find it easier to believe that Paul was wrong about the issue of women teaching than to believe that God wants institutionalized sexism in the church.

[electladynb]

Well, I was able to minister a women's message on this Sunday for mother's day from Titus 2:3-5 entitled "Whatcha talkin about, woman." I said what God had me to say and then I sat down and my husband reiterrated some of the points that I made....it was a blessing....

[MawMaw]

Well, I was able to minister a women's message on this Sunday for mother's day from Titus 2:3-5 entitled "Whatcha talkin about, woman." I said what God had me to say and then I sat down and my husband reiterrated some of the points that I made....it was a blessing....

Sounds interesting! Could you by any chance post it here? :nerd2:

[electladynb]

Unfortunately we didn't record it..... But the basis was the discussion of what the aged women should be like and then using that as the backdrop of what they should be teaching the younger women....

[jsc1215]

I am new and I have heard that women preacher are not found in the bible.
So my question is Will God use a woman to preach or is that just for men?
Whenever this topicis discussed, often the Scriptures in Timothy are the point of reference. In the case of bishops and deacons, the Bible is certainly clear of those officeholders being the husband of one wife. The Bible is also clear that a woman should not usurp authority over a man.

What is not clear, and causes division among the saints, is how different organizations view the concept of authority. Some, like the PAW, are very open and grant pastorships to women. Others, like the more conservative COOLJC, would be hard pressed to ever license a woman as a pastor. The UPCI (I am a member of one of their churches) licenses women, but only a very small percentage fill a pastoral role. In each of these cases, the authority is given to women. This is important to know because of the questions surrounding usurping authority.

From an individual standpoint, I more closely follow the scriptures and disagree with granting specific offices to women only because there is no precedent in the Word of God. If the organization chooses to do something contrary, then those who make those decisions will be accountable for their errors.

This is a touchy topic because we all have heard women speak under the anointing of God. The question remains: does the granting of authority by an organization constitute a breach of Scripture?

God bless...time for me to eat breakfast and get ready for church!

[tufluv]

Whenever this topicis discussed, often the Scriptures in Timothy are the point of reference. In the case of bishops and deacons, the Bible is certainly clear of those officeholders being the husband of one wife. The Bible is also clear that a woman should not usurp authority over a man.

What is not clear, and causes division among the saints, is how different organizations view the concept of authority. Some, like the PAW, are very open and grant pastorships to women. Others, like the more conservative COOLJC, would be hard pressed to ever license a woman as a pastor. The UPCI (I am a member of one of their churches) licenses women, but only a very small percentage fill a pastoral role. In each of these cases, the authority is given to women. This is important to know because of the questions surrounding usurping authority.

From an individual standpoint, I more closely follow the scriptures and disagree with granting specific offices to women only because there is no precedent in the Word of God. If the organization chooses to do something contrary, then those who make those decisions will be accountable for their errors.

This is a touchy topic because we all have heard women speak under the anointing of God. The question remains: does the granting of authority by an organization constitute a breach of Scripture?
God bless...time for me to eat breakfast and get ready for church!
GOD is the ONLY authority over HIS WORD., (simple).

[LadyRev]

Personally, I'd rather obey God than men.

God called me and I responded. I have to answer to God for myself. If I'm wrong, I will answer to God. Likewise, if you are wrong, you will answer to God.

God is not the author of confusion. Man has created the confusion in regards to what God has to say regarding women preachers/pastors.

[jhlent]

Personally, I'd rather obey God than men.

God called me and I responded. I have to answer to God for myself. If I'm wrong, I will answer to God. Likewise, if you are wrong, you will answer to God.

God is not the author of confusion. Man has created the confusion in regards to what God has to say regarding women preachers/pastors.
GOD HAVE MERCY.....

SHE's BACK.............................................


What ever you say WATCH OUT - she (a woman) OWNS A GUN..!.! :usaflag:

[jhlent]

just something to consider

Usurp
USURP', v.t. s as z. [L. usurpo.]

To seize and hold in possession by force or without right; as, to usurp a throne; to usurp the prerogatives of the crown; to usurp power. To usurp the right of a patron, is to oust or dispossess him.

Vice sometimes usurps the place of virtue.

[Usurp is not applied to common dispossession of private property.]

G831
αὐθεντέω
authenteō
ow-then-teh'-o
From a compound of G846 and ἕντης hentēs (obsolete; a worker); to act of oneself, that is, (figuratively) dominate: - usurp authority over.

Note: it is Non-Gender specific

[jhlent]

Why do you think God is only speaking to women or those who are for pro-women preachers. Maybe God is speaking to men who are a bunch of couch potatos....like get of your rear ends and do your job instead of forcing the women to do it....just a thought.And I find it easier to believe that Paul was wrong about the issue of women teaching than to believe that God wants institutionalized sexism in the church.

You would rather see Scripture is wrong...??
Where is the logic in that...??

[Janice Alvear]

I0,000 Braziiians rejoice that I came to Brazil....

[LadyRev]

GOD HAVE MERCY.....

SHE's BACK.............................................


What ever you say WATCH OUT - she (a woman) OWNS A GUN..!.! :usaflag:

I do own a gun. But my God is really the one to watch out for. He's the one that calls and chooses and woe unto those who stand against what God does.

:kitty:

[LadyRev]

I0,000 Braziiians rejoice that I came to Brazil....

Praise God!

[revtonysantucci]

Women have been used by God ever since the Old Testament. PROPHETESS give any hint. All flesh means all flesh. Men and women. A woman can preach and teach in a way that men cannot. Just because they are the weaker vessle don't mean that GOd didn't equip them with what they need to do to do the same job. People are always saying junk about women preachers but nobody says anything about accomplished women preachers like Nona Freeman, Sis. Alvear, or anyone else who has been successful working in any way towards the growth and development of the KIngdom of God.

[Dordt]

I always thought a pastor can be a good preacher, but a good preacher is not always a good pastor.
A preacher could be a good evangelist, but an evangelist is not always a good pastor.
Maybe I am just babbling away, but I believe to be a good pastor should have the qualifications for all of it...preacher, evangelist and pastor. .

I believe a female could be a great preacher and evangelist.
But I believe a man should be the pastor of a church.



Females being pastors of churches smells like radical feminism to me.
I guess now I's gonna get it....

[searching]

Females being pastors of churches smells like radical feminism to me.
I guess now I's gonna get it....

LOL! I'll be gentle....

Seriously though, for you and those who are similar in thought, what do you think of women in other forms of authority, like doctors, police officers, store managers, judges, and such like? Do you believe they also have an air of 'radical feminism' because they are in a position once primarily held by men?

I'm just asking to see how you feel, not to discuss ad nauseum a topic that I believe is just plain silly to be discussing. ;)

[revtonysantucci]

I have a woman doctor. There are plenty of women judges, police officers and stuff like that. Women need to know thery are important within the church also. There is enough criticism about women in the ministry. Women are capable of doing the same jobs as men.

[searching]

I have a woman doctor. There are plenty of women judges, police officers and stuff like that. Women need to know thery are important within the church also. There is enough criticism about women in the ministry. Women are capable of doing the same jobs as men.

I was asking the question because it seems that those against women preachers and/or pastors believe that those women are somehow acting under their own authority yet don't believe male preachers and/or pastors are doing the same.

Male and female--we are all under the authority of God, regardless of our capacity in the kingdom.

Some may not agree, but that's ok. There are male preachers and pastors I won't listen to for various reasons but that doesn't mean I have the right to state they aren't under the authority of God. My disagreement with them doesn't make me suddenly omniscient.

Some don't like women doctors. That's ok. Find a male doc to give your money to. That doesn't mean that women docs are somehow less of a MD than a male because you don't like women docs, right?

Some don't care for male nurses. I've heard horrible comments about them in my nursing career. They are horribly stereotyped and the general attitude is that they couldn't make it as a doc, so they settled for being a nurse. Sad. If you don't want a male nurse caring for you, request a female. It's ok, and no questions are asked.

It's no different with women preachers and/or pastors. If you don't think they should be in that capacity, talk to Jesus about it and move on. I would be very worried speaking against someone called of God, believing He made a mistake and went against His own Word, or what I perceive to be what He meant to say in that book.

If I don't like it, I have to option to find another church to attend. That being done, comments and my opinion should really stay behind my lips.

I wonder what would have happened had the people who gathered around the temple to hear Anna speak about the birth of Christ instead mumbled and murmured about how they thought she should not be in the temple because she was a woman and wanted Zachariah to preach to them instead.

Remember what happened to people who murmured against Moses? Do we think God turns a deaf ear when we do the same to a woman?

Funny how we speak about being safe than sorry when it comes to standards and other such issues, but when it comes to running our mouths, we just keep those jaws flapping.

[Dordt]

LOL! I'll be gentle....

Seriously though, for you and those who are similar in thought, what do you think of women in other forms of authority, like doctors, police officers, store managers, judges, and such like? Do you believe they also have an air of 'radical feminism' because they are in a position once primarily held by men?

I'm just asking to see how you feel, not to discuss ad nauseum a topic that I believe is just plain silly to be discussing. ;)

in general I believe family life is being destroyed because women are not home taking care of their children. The family unit is in shambles these days.
Children are growing up by themselves. Of course not in all cases, but things surely have been changing the last 30 years....

Call me old fashioned.

[RandyWayne]

LOL! I'll be gentle....

Seriously though, for you and those who are similar in thought, what do you think of women in other forms of authority, like doctors, police officers, store managers, judges, and such like? Do you believe they also have an air of 'radical feminism' because they are in a position once primarily held by men?

I'm just asking to see how you feel, not to discuss ad nauseum a topic that I believe is just plain silly to be discussing. ;)

Miss going at it with RDP? LOL
(This subject, and jewelry, were the only threads he ever participated in.)

[searching]

in general I believe family life is being destroyed because women are not home taking care of their children. The family unit is in shambles these days.
Children are growing up by themselves. Of course not in all cases, but things surely have been changing the last 30 years....

Call me old fashioned.

If you want to know the truth, it's the lack of MEN that are the cause of the breakdown in families, but I don't believe that has anything to do with the topic, especially because there are lots of older women whose children are grown or don't have children at all. I really don't think this has anything to do with the topic. In addition, if pastoring takes one away from their children, why are bishops admonished to keep their children in line, NOT the mothers of those children?

But again, I don't think that really has anything to do with why someone would be against women preachers/pastors. Most women nowadays work for a living and are gone from the home a lot more than pastors/preachers are.

[searching]

Miss going at it with RDP? LOL
(This subject, and jewelry, were the only threads he ever participated in.)

I'm convinced that men who are obsessed with discussing what women do that they feel only men should do, or obsessively discussing other womens issues probably have bigger problems in their lives, and I probably don't even want to know. LOL!

[searching]

If you want to know the truth, it's the lack of MEN that are the cause of the breakdown in families, but I don't believe that has anything to do with the topic, especially because there are lots of older women whose children are grown or don't have children at all. I really don't think this has anything to do with the topic. In addition, if pastoring takes one away from their children, why are bishops admonished to keep their children in line, NOT the mothers of those children?

But again, I don't think that really has anything to do with why someone would be against women preachers/pastors. Most women nowadays work for a living and are gone from the home a lot more than pastors/preachers are.

Ah, but I don't believe you are old fashioned, just perhaps a bit behind the times. ;)

There aren't many households that can survive on one income alone anymore, and I believe it's important for women to also have a career, especially since bad things happen and often, women are left alone to care for the children while living on welfare and living in housing, raising children with a welfare mentality that will carry on for generations.

There aren't many people in prison who will tell you that the reason they are there is because their parents worked constantly and were never home to raise them. In fact, quite the opposite. Most of them will tell you they lived poorly, daddies weren't around, and mommies were working menial jobs (if at all) or on drugs.

My family, by the grace of God, is a success story. I was a single parent for my oldest two children. I refused to live on welfare, although I had to use it sometimes to help out. I worked, went to school, got a degree, and the only time I lived in housing was when I had brain surgery and wasn't able to work the two years prior.

I was always involved with my children. I attended Cub Scouts, ball games, PTO, concerts, school sings and plays, church events, took vacations, and did the best I could to ensure they never needed anything.

Today, my son is 20, married and making a career in the Navy. My daughter (who is 18 today), is a life long honor roll student who is in the National Honor Society and a senior in high school.

I have two younger children whose birth mother left when when they were babies. They are now 8 and 9, but I'm raising them with the same values I raised my older children with, but lucky for them, they have two parents, however, we both work to provide for them.

I didn't say all this to pay myself on the back because it's been God all the way that helps us through it all and continues to do so.

I believe welfare mentalities are handed down. My mom was also a single parent but also refused to live on welfare. We didn't have the best of lives, but she taught me to work for everything I have and trust God for it all.

It's quite possible for women to raise their children and work also, just as it's possible for men to do the same. Raising children isn't a woman's job, but also just as much the man's.

Now, back to the topic that I just sidetracked. LOL!

[Dordt]

If you want to know the truth, it's the lack of MEN that are the cause of the breakdown in families, but I don't believe that has anything to do with the topic, especially because there are lots of older women whose children are grown or don't have children at all. I really don't think this has anything to do with the topic. In addition, if pastoring takes one away from their children, why are bishops admonished to keep their children in line, NOT the mothers of those children?

But again, I don't think that really has anything to do with why someone would be against women preachers/pastors. Most women nowadays work for a living and are gone from the home a lot more than pastors/preachers are.

I know it's off topic, but you asked a question and i answered it.
Also I still believe feminism is weaseling it's way into the church.
Maybe not as much into the apostolic churches as into the other ones.

[searching]

I know it's off topic, but you asked a question and i answered it.
Also I still believe feminism is weaseling it's way into the church.
Maybe not as much into the apostolic churches as into the other ones.

Feminism...what do you mean by that statement? I ask because I hear people throw that term around but what they really mean is that they don't like female leadership, so they state that it's feminism. I'd like to hear your definition.

And I don't mean to hit and run, but I have to work the next three nights, then it's the weekend. I'll answer when I can, I promise.

[Dordt]

The definition in general:

Check "Impact of feminism on the family":

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Feminism/destroying_families.htm

[g_moses]

The definition in general:

Check "Impact of feminism on the family":

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Feminism/destroying_families.htm

Whoa man. You might have warned somebody about the aborted fetus picture in there. Seriously, that was a bit staggering.

I don't think that feminism in that sense is really that strong in any community. Kind of like any political branch, there are always a few nuts to ruin the name for everybody.

[John Atkinson]

I'm convinced that men who are obsessed with discussing what women do that they feel only men should do, or obsessively discussing other womens issues probably have bigger problems in their lives, and I probably don't even want to know. LOL!I'm sorry, but there are men things women have no business doing. Going to the men's room for example. It clearly says "men" right there on the door. That means it is a room just for men.I go in there and find a woman, I'm gonna have something to say about that...youse guys got your own room right next door... go there...

[searching]

I'm sorry, but there are men things women have no business doing. Going to the men's room for example. It clearly says "men" right there on the door. That means it is a room just for men.I go in there and find a woman, I'm gonna have something to say about that...youse guys got your own room right next door... go there...

In this day and age, you really have no idea who is in the stall next to you. In Trinidad, CO, over 5000 sex change operations take place every year.....by a she male doctor too.

Yeah, they look like men, but....

FTR, I use the women's, even if going by the signs on the door indicate I should use the men's...;)

[searching]

The definition in general:

Check "Impact of feminism on the family":

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Feminism/destroying_families.htm

Is it possible to quote something you want me to read in particular about how you feel and how it relates to women preachers?