Withholding Information??

[Apostolic Kitty]

I have a question...

Just recently my son, who has never had anything below a "B" on his report card, came home with his progress report. It showed he had a "C" in science because he didn't turn in two assignments. He was very upset by this and was crying. He said he was afraid he was going to get in trouble with my husband over it. I signed the paper and gave it back to him, admonishing him to bring his grade up, and did not mention anything about it to my husband.

I do not normally do things like that. I usually tell him everything, but I figure a progress report is only that -- it's not a report card or even as important as one. Also, my boy could easily bring his grade back up to honor roll by report card time, so why make a big fuss.

So, I'd just like to know. What do you think? Is it that big of a deal?

[Joan]

Why wouldn't you tell the child's father? What's the purpose of not telling him? What if your son doesn't pull his grade up before report card? Is it a father's responsibility to be the overseer? Is he able to appropriately oversee his family's needs and provide for them if he doesn't have all the information? Why would your son be afraid of getting in trouble for getting a C on his report card? Would you like your husband to know this information and not tell you?

Honor Roll is cool but some kids go on to greatness even if they missed the honor roll at times in their young life. (I'm a homeschooler so you'll have to understand . . . I have the liberty of not giving my kids grades :-)

Perhaps your son needs some help in organizing his assignments so that he doesn't miss any.

[ddc101]

Hi Apostolic Kitty,
I tell my husband everything.I believe that you and yours have
a good rapport from what I know.I think it will have alot to
do with the approach you take.Probably Brother will see it the
same way you do.You son seems so very disapointed.I would
approach the situation from the angle of why did he not turn
in these assignments when he knew to do so? lv sis.c

[ddc101]

Sis.Joan,
I did not remember you were a homeschooler.So am I.God bless.lv sis.c

[justavessel4him]

Hi Kitty,
I believe that it is wrong for you to keep this from your husband. I also believe that by keeping this from your husband you are teaching your son that it is alright to hide things from his father and undermining your husband's authority in your son's eyes. You are in essence actually aiding you son in deceiving his father. At least that is the way that I see it. I hope you don't get upset with me for telling you this. After all, you did ask and it is the responsibility of the older women to teach the younger women to love their children and to love, and obey their husbands.

BTW we also homeschool.

[ddc101]

Sis.Martha,
what homeschool material are you using?lv sis.c

[justavessel4him]

Sis C,
I use mostly School of Tomorrow. I am certified as a Supervisor with them from my time working in the school at the church we attended a few years ago. I started out my daughter, who is now 17 using it, and now use it with some other various things. I am now homeschooling my granddaughter and next year my grandson will start school. We are using ACE(School of Tomorrow) with them, as well. but will also use other sources. My ideas and convictions concerning education have changed over the years. But maybe we can talk about that another time.

[ddc101]

Amen Sister that is the same material I use to school my 13 year old.I would love for us to have a church school.lv sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

Originally posted by Joan
Why wouldn't you tell the child's father? What's the purpose of not telling him? What if your son doesn't pull his grade up before report card? Is it a father's responsibility to be the overseer? Is he able to appropriately oversee his family's needs and provide for them if he doesn't have all the information? Why would your son be afraid of getting in trouble for getting a C on his report card? Would you like your husband to know this information and not tell you?

Honor Roll is cool but some kids go on to greatness even if they missed the honor roll at times in their young life. (I'm a homeschooler so you'll have to understand . . . I have the liberty of not giving my kids grades :-)

Perhaps your son needs some help in organizing his assignments so that he doesn't miss any.

Joan, the point of the question really had nothing to do with honor roll. It had to do with withholding information from my husband -- information I didn't consider very important. I was questioning how I handled the situation. Thanks for the interrogation anyway.

[Apostolic Kitty]

Originally posted by ddc101
Hi Apostolic Kitty,
I tell my husband everything.I believe that you and yours have
a good rapport from what I know.I think it will have alot to
do with the approach you take.Probably Brother will see it the
same way you do.You son seems so very disapointed.I would
approach the situation from the angle of why did he not turn
in these assignments when he knew to do so? lv sis.c

TBH, Sis. DDC, hubby and I do have a good rapport and do agree on most things, but our biggest conflict is with my boy. I say "my boy" because I was a single mom for 7 1/2 years. TBH, hubby is not very wise on parenting due to the lack of parenting he received as a child. He did not have a father figure in his life till he was 27 (drunk dad deserted the family when hubby was 1 1/2)and His mother was (and still is) a pathetic example.

He tends to be cynical about things sometimes and acts accordingly. Sometimes I find his behavior to be quite crass and I will sometimes stand in his way if I think it will be harmful to James. He has gotten better in the 4 years of our marriage, as have I, but still has a real far way to go and it can be very trying for me.

I really got tired sometimes of my husband coming down on James hard for things that do not merit it. In this case, I knew hubby would come down hard on James and I found no reason for it considering what it was about (progress report) and wanted to avoid it -- so I did without much of a thought and handled the progress report problem (minor) in the way I knew it should be handled (just a talk).

What makes his behavior even harder to deal with sometimes is that my dad used to be harsh to me for no reason when I was a child (without also showing me love and tenderness) and I grew to hate him so much that I used to fantacize about getting him back for how he treated me. I am so glad the Lord delivered me from that, but at the same time I don't ever want such animosity to ever come into my family.

[Apostolic Kitty]

Originally posted by justavessel4him
Hi Kitty,
I believe that it is wrong for you to keep this from your husband. I also believe that by keeping this from your husband you are teaching your son that it is alright to hide things from his father and undermining your husband's authority in your son's eyes. You are in essence actually aiding you son in deceiving his father. At least that is the way that I see it. I hope you don't get upset with me for telling you this.

No, your response did not upset me at all. It was an honest answer about the subject, which is what I was asking for. I can see where you are coming from. I didn't even consider that it was encouraging him to be deceitful or I might not have done it. In the situation I find myself put it, it's sometimes difficult to know what to do. I want my son to respect and admire my husband, but find my husband is often not worthy of such honor. How can a child respect someone who shows them no consideration?

[Joan]

Kitty,

You wrote to me "thanks for the interrogation anyway". Really? That statement sounded like sarcasm. I was most certainly NOT interrogating you. I was writing questions that someone might ponder when trying to arrive at their motives for making decisions. You asked the question about withholding information and you are the one that made the actual grade the reason for what might be a point of contention in your family relationships. You are the one who first mentioned the honor roll as something that would be the goal of keeping peace in the family. If your son gets honor roll by report card time then the progress report will be a non-issue is how I interepreted your reasoning for withholding the info.

Good grief, I'm a woman like you, a mother like you, and a wife like you. I'm not trying to condemn you in any way. I struggle sometimes too with things.

It may very well have been the right decision to withhold that information based on some of the information you later gave about the actual relationship between your boy and your husband.

I never expected you to answer to me any of the questions that I posted in reply to your original question. They were questions you might ask yourself, period. It seems to me that your conscience was pricked a little that you should have told your husband and that is what prompted you to post your original question. If I'm wrong, then fine. But if I'm right, then so what? What's the worse case if you blew it? Repent and sin no more (so to speak). If I'm wrong about your conscience then what does it matter what anyone else's opinion of the situation is?

I'm a complete stranger I know. I was just replying based on the information I had. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack of any kind on you. I dont presume any authority on the subject of "your" marriage. I was basically replying generally speaking.

We may be able to agree on this: all of us are lumpy bumpy. None of us are quite perfected yet. Jesus knows we're in the process of perfection and He has grace towards us.

[Apostolic Kitty]

It was sarcasm. I ask for opinions of a situation and you asked me a whole lot of questions which, to me, without an explaination, seemed more like an interrogation.

[justavessel4him]

Hi Kitty,
Thanks for the positive response to my post. You said a couple of things in your posts that I wanted to comment on. You said that your husband lacked good parenting skills because of his upbringing. I don't know anything about your husband, except what you have said, but I don't think that a bad upbringing will cause you to be a bad parent. Also, you said that you had bad experiences growing up (so did I). I wonder how much your experiences with your father color how you see your husband's behavior with your son. I know from my own experience that I tended toward being to soft with my kids because of the harsh treatment I got when I was growing up, and thought my husband was to hard on them sometimes. I had to learn that my childhood was coloring how I saw things and that I wasn't always right in how I perceived a situation.
You also said, "How can a child respect someone who shows them no consideration?" By your example. Maybe if you would teach your son to respect his stepfather it would even help your husband to be a better dad. Sometimes people react to the way people expect them to act. Also, you have to remember that even if you think he is wrong, he is still head of your home.
One other thing I noticed is that you refer to your child as "my" son. Could this "my child" instead of "our child" attitude cause division and make the situation worse? Just somethings for you to think about. Please don't think I am judging you in this, I only want to help. I know from my own experience that things that happen to us as children affect us in many ways. Some good and some not so good. I also know that the Holy Ghost can help us overcome those things and the effects they have on our lives. I will pray for you and your husband.

[ddc101]

Sis.Martha you stated:
but I don't think that a bad upbringing will cause you to be a bad parent.
Yes a bad upbringing can cause you to be a bad parent.It took me years to change because I overdisciplined my son.My parents did the same to me.I was Sergent Carter at home.Yes it can be
overcome.
I know this seems wierd but some people have had such bad examples that the right thought patterns concerning parenting does not compute ...know what I mean?
lv sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

I already know the things I went through with my dad affects how I see my husband as a dad -- because he does some of the same things -- AND THEY ARE WRONG! When you discipline a child you should do it IN LOVE and be sure that they know that, although they messed up they are still loved. My husband does not do this with my son just the same as my dad did not do it with me. I told him about this and how I am afraid that how he acts toward my son might cause him to be rebellious toward him and how boys NEED their dads in their preteen/teen years most.

I also know that there have been times where he has been hard on him that it's been good and it is sometimes hard to recognize, but I am not even talking about that b/c I have learned the difference and how to step out of it UNTIL he crosses that line.

This whole "husband being the head of the home thing", I admit, had been a struggle for me -- especially considering there is actually no indication of such, though I really desire more than anything to see that. I am the one who does most of the work. He is currently in school full time although he had to drop his spring classes b/c his schedule was too much and caused him to not do well in his classes. He doesn't like doing housework and doesn't help much to get it done. I do admit, he does cook way more than I do, will do dishes and does run some of the errands, but if I were home, I'd be doing much more. And that's what we both want -- and the main reason he is in school. I am sure when he is out and working steady things will be much different and much easier in these respects, but for now I feel like the whole burden is on me.

And, about the "my child' thing. That was largely to explain that my husband, although he is called "dad", is not actually his dad. James is my child. If my husband were to walk out the door tomorrow he'd have no ties except what emotional bonding they have done. Rob has filed papers to adopt him, but it's never happened b/c of financial situations and what-not.

[Apostolic Kitty]

Originally posted by ddc101
Yes a bad upbringing can cause you to be a bad parent.It took me years to change because I overdisciplined my son.My parents did the same to me.I was Sergent Carter at home.Yes it can be
overcome.
I know this seems wierd but some people have had such bad examples that the right thought patterns concerning parenting does not compute ...know what I mean?
lv sis.c

I know exactly what you mean. I had to overcome a lot of things, too. There is such a fine line you have to walk between not disciplining enough and overdoing it.

About the "not computing" thing... my husband had a revelation about four months ago when we got a van that he was actually part of a family. My reaction was "we've been married almost four years and you're just realizing this??".

Sometimes he's slow, but he has gotten better in the past four years just as I have become a better wife in the past four years. But I am not where I want to be (nor is he). He is trying to do better. He even subscribed to Parents Magazine hoping it would help him be a better parent. I just wish he'd read my books by Dr. Dobson and pray about them. Parent's Magazine is good, but Dr. Dobson is like steak on these issues. God knows his books are what have helped me.

...and, apparently I am striving to or I would never have written some of the things I have written here (as it is I am concerned I said too much). I did take Hebrews & Forever's advice though. I am reading Power of a Praying Wife. Maybe I should get him "Power of a Praying Parent"??

I am glad this is a somewhat closed forum. Otherwise I would not have felt as free to share even what I did.

[justavessel4him]

Sis C.
I understand that one's upbringing can and does often have a negative effect on what kind of parent they will be. What I said was that it doesn't have to mean that you will be a bad parent. Sometimes we learn from our bad experiences. We can learn from other peoples mistakes. We can learn not to make the same mistakes as our parents did. The Holy Ghost can help us to overcome those things.

I do understand what you are saying, and we do have to grow in things including parenting.

I believe that this is one of those things in which the older women are to teach the younger, to love their husbands and to love their children. I hope I have learned something through the years that I can pass on to my younger sisters.

[justavessel4him]

Kitty,
As I said before, I will pray for you and your husband. Sometimes the growing process can be painful. If I can ever be a help to you in any way, please just let me know. Feel free to write to me at my personal e-mail address. I respect your desire to grow and set things right in your home.

[pentecostal mom]

Hello everyone. I am from a single parent home. My mother was married twice during my growing up years. (Not in Church) After I was grown my mother married a good man and has been married for 16 years. She told me part of the problem with the other men was me she couldn't handle them dicsiplining me because she was afraid they wouldn't do it in love. I would advise you to be careful about siding with your son over your husband. If your son is in any way manipulative he will put you in this situation more often and it will drive a wedge between you and your husband. Maybe it would help with your husband's harshness if you talked with him and told him how you feel in a calm non-accusing way and then told him that you love him and you know he loves you and James and only wants the best for you all and tell him that you are going to completely submit to him in this area. Maybe some of his harshness is jealously. I know me and my mother had a VERY close relationship because we were all we had. We still are extremely close my husband pokes fun at me --he just doesn't understand. I didn't mean any of this in an ugly way and I hope you don't get mad about me saying your child might get manipulative-I have kids and I know how they can be especially when they are bright kids.

[Apostolic Kitty]

PM:

I know my son can be manipulative sometimes, but that is not really the issue with me. We've gotten past that.

I have talked to my husband in a calm, non-accusing way many times about the way he handles things, but it has not made a lasting difference.

What would it be to submit to him in this and not take sides? Would that be allowing him to put my son down and not say anything when he gets frustrated with him?

I do know my husband is jealous, but he is jealous because his mother did not make him feel special as a child. I do not know if he is jealous b/c of anything else.

[foreverblessed]

ApostolicKitty,
I understand totally what you are saying. That is something that is very hard to balance in a marriage. I am sure that is even more difficult because of him not being his natural father.

In my marriage is was very similar. I even had to go speak to my pastor about it. I didn't want to be unsubmissive, but I had a hard time with my kid's "natural" father disciplining them. He didn't do the disciplining in love, and it disturbed me. I didn't want to undermine his authority in the home and as a Father, but he was a man who couldn't control his actions or mouth, when angry.
Kids make you angry, it is natural, but at the same time, as adults we need to be able to control our actions.

Just so some of you don't pre judge me, he served one year suspended sentence on probation, for child abuse against his three girls. He used excessive force in whipping them, and just for the record, I wasn't the one who reported him to authorities, a neighbor did. I stood firm in court that I believed in spanking, but that I did agree he had used too much force and left bruising, and I didn't agree with that. I was later informed that their next step was taking them from me, if I had stood behind my husband in his right to whip them as he did. Even in Court mandated counseling, I refused to back down on my belief in spanking being biblical. I had to go through extended counseling myself because of it. Finally the counselor gave up on me, admitted that he believed in spanking too, as long as it was done out of love, and the last recourse in disciplining.

I also agree with Pentecostal Mom concerning children being smart and using what they know to be manipulative. Because Division of Family Services had to come and check out our home in this case, my kids would use this even against me. For a short time after this happened, I was told anytime I would go to discipline my girls that I wasn't "allowed" to do it.
I finally had to set them straight, I took my kids by the State ran orphanage, and told them if they didn't want to come under my authority, they didn't have to worry about calling DFC on me, I would call them first and deliver them to the dept. myself. Pretty much cured that one. They sure didn't want to go live in that scary place. :)

AK, just keep reading that book "Power of a Praying Wife" continue to pray for your husband for this area in his life. I know for a fact that it works.
One of the areas that I prayed for the most with my husband, was his anger problem. God changed him! I mean he changed him, he would laugh and make comments later on how mellow he had become! I would look toward heaven and whisper a "thank you". I didn't fear for my kids or me during the last four years of our marriage, he was changed in that aspect of his life. Prayer works! God can turn your husband into a loving, wonderful father that disciplines in Love. Trust God for it.
Now if other areas of his life had be conquered in prayer, we might still be married. Doesn't mean that God couldn't have done it though.

As for the subject of a step father disciplining a child. I don't think I would have a problem there, as long as the man took the time to build a loving relationship and rapport with the kids before jumping right in to straighten things out. Actually I pray that God does send me a wonderful man to help me in raising these kids.

[ddc101]

Hi Apostolic Kitty,
When I read your last post it struck a chord in me.Bro.and I were married when my son Derek was about 6 years old.I did not allow him to discipline him for awhile.I didn't want my son to resent him but to respect him.In the meantime I began to help my son to see him as dad.He viewed my real dad as his dad because we lived with my parents since my son was about two.In fact my dad
was Navy.My son is Navy.My dad retired an electrical engineer.My son is an electrician and is in this particular program in the Navy.He got into it first in high school on an apprienticeship program and worked all through high school for a contractor.Then went on to get a full apprienticeship from the electrical contractors union.He took on the dilligence that my dad possesses.But from Bro.Cooper he took on qualities like working on his own cars and being a great conversationalist.He also has
gestures like Bro.Cooper.It is neat knowing he's not his natural dad.Bro.Coopers dad and stepdad are both retired Navy.So theres a big proud factor where Derek is concerned.I wanted to
share that in the long run your son and husband will bond.Just don't try to hard.These things happen naturally.When we were first married my husband was very selfish.He was not raised in a household with children.But over time he began to bless my son
with words and deeds.Now he is ever so proud of him.When Derek was at CampDavid for the last couple of years he brought
Bro.Cooper home a big picture of him and the Bush Family at
Thanksgiving.I never saw Bro.brag so much.No one would ever know he is not the natural father.So hang in there.Things have a way of working themselves out when we serve Jesus.Heres a scriptural promise:

Isa 45:2-3
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
(KJV)

Hang in there! lv sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

foreverblessed --

While I have never had to deal with my husband physically harming my son when physically disciplining him, you basically hit the nail on the head.

Really my husband is a good man and does love James, but I really don't think he "gets it".

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Apostolic Kitty]

Sis. Cooper:

James did not have anyone as a father figure in his life before I was married. He was always around women. I wish my dad had been there for him.

Hubby and son have bonded to a degree, but I don't see where hubby takes the initiative as much as I think he should. I do know that part of the reason is because we don't have money to do some things he wants to do with James.

He get so frustrated when he tries to "teach" James something and James does not get it right away. It does not help that hubby is NOT a good teacher. So happens the clash of the kid who is a perfectionist, wants to do it right the first time, but is human and the man who expects him to get it right the first time and doesn't allow room for the kid to be human.

I do know that he is proud of the achievements he has made, but is not so quick to share that with him. It's much easier to be critical. :(

[ddc101]

Apostolic Kitty,
Over the years things will change.God has a way of bonding us all.If you keep on praying for him God will speak to his heart.You have to war this thing on your knees in order to win the war.lv sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

Sometimes the war makes me pretty weary. How I long for PEACE...

[ddc101]

I know what you mean sister.There comes a time when you are so worn and weary that you even find yourself telling the Lord that you are tired when you pray.When you are at this place he
always sends you a token for good.lv sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

Very true, Sis. Cooper! Just when I feel like giving up, He always comes and lifts me up.

[ddc101]

God is so good and in all the areas we fell deficient he is able to supply the need.No matter if we have lived for him for years or just received the Holy Ghost last night.He is able.And he cares about us as we care for our own children.I think of this scripture:

Isa 49:15-16
15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
(KJV)

I often ask the Lord in prayer to look down upon the palms of his hands and see (insert name ) there.He holds us in his hands.lv sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

Well, Sister Cooper....

I told hubby over the weekend about the progress report thing and you were right. He DID agree with me -- that it was not a big deal.

However.....when he mentioned it to James in jest, James became angry with me that I had "broken my promise". I told him I hadn't promised him anything that I had only told him I wouldn't mention it....and that it was wrong, so I was correcting it.

I then asked him if he thought it was right for me to keep secrets from my husband. Some may say that a kid would not understand that, but I know James does and he reluctantly agreed that it was not right.

I told him I didn't want our family to be the type that kept secrets from each other and how it was wrong for me to do that to dad -- not only because we shouldn't have secrets, but because I was teaching him wrong by my actions. I told him I should not have doubted hubby like that and, even if I thought he would have fussed over it, I should have just told him anyway.

Fortunately, this came out while my best friend was visiting. She and James are very close and she, not only comforted James, but shared with him how her mother used to hide things from her step-father and how -- even though she had good reason to -- it taught her how to be deceitful. She even asked him if, once he grew up and got married, he would want to keep secrets from his wife or have her keep secrets from him. Of course he said "no".

I felt like such an idiot for making a moutain out of a molehill, but I'm still learning...

:shrug: :goof:

[Joan]

Wow, that sounds like a really great thing happened. That was a really great lesson for your son too. It probably helped your son to see that his step-dad is o.k. with him being imperfect sometimes. Praise God. And you got some really good ministry from some of the ladies in this thread. God is good. Have a great day.

[ddc101]

Amen Sister Kitty,
Great report...lv sis.c