The Original Church

[BroRutledge]

As I read the book of Acts and see the original Church in the beginning of the Apostolic movement I get blessed. I often witness rejoicing in the congregation as I preach about the early Church and the things that happened as they all were moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

What type of Church government did they have? Are we Apostolic? What type of government should we have?

What are your thoughts? What is Church government and who governs?

God bless
BroRutledge

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

The Lord Jesus governs. As we look at Acts 15, we can see the order which was developing as the apostles and prophets spoke.
The Apostle Peter spoke first; he was the first in the Ministry among those who spoke. Then Barnabus spoke; he preceded the Apostle Paul in the Gospel. and was the vehicle God used to bring Paul to the Ministry. Paul spoke next. He also preceded James, the Lord's brother. Finally, James spoke. But notice his words: they established the words of Peter, and Barnabus and Paul by the MOUTH OF THE PROPHETS! hE DID NOT INTERJECT his OPiNION, but left the judgment to the Lord.
OUR words and actions should correspond to theirs, as says also the scripture: "...submit yourselves to them that have the RULE over you..." In today's vernacular, this scripture should read: "...consider those who have PRECEDED you in the Lord..." This does not speak of a human government, but of an authority that is only from the Lord.
Brother Villa

[Jim]

Hnovilla,

Your wrote:

as says also the scripture: "...submit yourselves to them that have the RULE over you..."

What verse are you quoting above?

Thanks.

God bless,

Jim

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

Brother Jim, to your question: the scripture I gave was a literal translation from my Spanish Bible at hand. In the KJV, it reads: "...Remember them which have the rule over you...", and "...obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them...": Hebrews 13:7, 17, respectively. In most congregations I have visited, these scriptures are applied to the pastors.
I maintain v.7 should be applied to the person(s) who preceded one in the Lord (witnessed to us), and to the mature Christians(INCLUDING the Ministry); while v. 17, is applied to the Ministry as a whole, not solely a 'pastor'..
Oftentimes the words submission and subjection are misapplied because they are interchanged. My personal studies have shown me this:
Submission: to prefer others before self. We do this when we allow an 'elder' to speak, sit down, first, etc. Basically, it is just 'common courtesy'. It is completely voluntary.
Subjection: we are all subjects of the King, and as such, are not allowed to give our opinion as to His will. Minister and laymen, we are to speak "...thus says the Lord." The Ministry, especially, should be extra careful. We must remember that we are called to Minister to the Church, who is the BRIDE of the Lord...our BOSS! This is strictly It is mandatory.
Well, Beloved, for a person who does not to write long posts, I guess I get too wordy. Sorry!
Brother Villa

[Joan]

Bro. Villa,

Who do you say is an "elder"? Who is in the ministry?

I recently heard a pastor's wife tell a story about visiting a church where she referred to one of the "Lord's Annointed" as just a saint. I've been around for a while so I understand that she meant no insult o this saint, but it sounded like a class separation instead of proper discernment of the Lord's body.

Submission may have an element of common courtesy but what I think submission is really is when a leader SERVES the body of Christ (what some might consider a mere "saint" or laity) and does what is scripturally based to equip the saint, whom the Lord says is "His annointed", for the work of ministry. A "church leader" is supposed to serve the Lord by making "laity" the actual ministry to build the body of Christ. I think that's what the Bible says. In turn, the eqipped saint will give an account of his qualifications and progress in the work with a humble spirit.

I would recommend that you read the book The Glorious Church by DAHuston and Jim McKinley. It's a great book.

God bless.

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

Beloved, an 'elder' is one who has matured in the ways of the Lord. This, of course, also includes the Ministery. Peter, one of the original twelve apostles chosen by the Lord, said of himself, "...who also am an elder..." He did not exalt himself by claiming ONLY his status as an apostle, but one of the brethren.
Submission IS common courtesys and it works in all levels of faith; whether it is in the Ministry, the helps, the gifts, or the 'child' in the Lord. After all, we ARE to serve one another. Today, there is much misunderstanding as to what actually constitutes an elder and the Ministry; even what preaching is.
The Church, as a whole, is called to preach: "...shew forth the praises of Him who called you out of darkness and into His marvewloius light..." The Ministry is also called to preach; yet preaching does NOT make one a Minister (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher). Unfortunately, many in the Church are attempting to fit the scriptures into their mold, instead of submitting to the scriptures.
Who are DHouston and JMcKinley? Are they Oneness? I guess that if you recommend the book, it is because you have discerned I need it. Thank you!

Brother Villa

[John Atkinson]

Bro Villa,

Bro McKinley and Bro Huston are Apostolic. Bro Huston oversees an assembly in Pennsylvania. I have had the pleasure of spending a small amount of time with him and do recommend his books. Some of which my be downloaded at www.gloriouschurch.com

[Jim]

Brother Villa,

I am Jim McKinley. Several of the posts you have read and commented on here are studies on the original apostolic structure of the local assembly written by Dave Huston and myself. Joan referred you to a book we have written on this topic.

God bless,

Jim

www.GloriousChurch.com

[Hnovilla]

His Name is Jesus!

Beloved, thank you all for the info. Now if I could only learn how to download!

Brother Villa

[Jim]

Brother Villa,

Please send me an e-mail at Jim@GloriousChurch.com and I will send the material by e-mail so you don't have to download it.

God bless,

Jim

www.GloriousChurch.com