How do you get born again?

[BroRutledge]

I hear friends say things like "I'm a born again Christian" "I accepted Christ as my personal Savior" "I believed with my heart and confessed with my mouth" "I said the sinner's prayer" "I blinked my lights"
"I honked my horn" "I cried" "My grandma was born again no matter what anybody thinks"...etc...etc.

What does Jesus teach about being born again?

John 3:1-21
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

That conversation between this ruler of the Jews and Jesus is very interesting.

In order to see the kingdom we must be born again. In order to enter the kingdom we must be born again of the water and of the spirit.

I have thought about these words many times. It finally dawned on me one day that we cannot even see the kingdom of God until after we have entered into it. At any point before we enter in we can only look upon it from a distance somewhere on the outside.

Some have interpreted this passage to mean that a person can be born again to see the kingdom and then get born again of water and spirit in order to enter. That never has made sense to me.

I do not believe that Jesus was saying to Nicodemus that he shoud be born again in order to see and then born again again in order to enter.

Jesus was explaining in verse 5 how to get into the kingdom so that you can see the kingdom as spoken of in verse 3.

In many conversations that we observe in the gospels we see Jesus introducing the truth that he later explains in more detail.

I am not of those who believe that you are saved before you receive the Holy Ghost. The scripture is very clear in the teaching of the Lord that we must be born of water and of the spirit in order to enter and enjoy observing the things of God.

[BroDane]

Amen Preacher!!! Comon..say more!!!

[Brett]

Greeting's in the Most Precious Name of The Lord Jesus Christ, The Lord of Glory, KING of Kings, And The LORD of Lords, My Lord And My GOD........Amen Brother, There are a Lot of Professing Christians, who think Salvation Only consist's of getting on something called the Roman's road, and repeating a sinner's prayer, and that is all there is to it, and they also fall into the devil's trap of Easy Believism........Well the Bible Let's us know that the devils also believe and tremble, (James 2:19), So with their simple easy believism philosophy, they make the devils saved right along with themselve's. The Bible Clearly speaks of Believing with the Heart, and if you Believe with the Heart, You will "DO" what it say's, (James 1:22), But be Ye "DOERS" of The WORD, and not hearer's Only, Decieving your own selve's....and also that Faith without work's is "DEAD"....(Jame's Ch. 2),...And We must obey the Gospel..(2Thess.1:8) In flaming fire taking Vengeance, on them that know not GOD, And that "OBEY NOT" The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.......So, You see, it is so clear........If a person Truly believe's from the Heart, They will OBEY the Gospel, and Not Just Be a hearer of it, decieving their own self.................."And Why Wait?....OBEY Acts 2:38"...........be blessed in Jesus Name.............Brett Cannon, Banner Elk, NC, Aquila And Priscilla Acts 2:38 Truth Ministries www.freewebs.com/aquilandpriscillacts238/ (http://www.freewebs.com/aquilandpriscillacts238/) Maverick1@skybest.com

[Brett Cannon]

Greeting's again, in the Name that is above every Name, which is The Lord Jesus Christ,:bow: .....................Another thought on this topic is, (EPH. 2:8-10), (8) For by Grace are ye Saved Through Faith, and that Not of yourselves: it is the Gift of GOD. (9) Not of Works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good Works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them.......These are Great Scripture's, but they are Not to be taken out of context, or misinterpretation........as some false Teacher's try to make Salvation an "Easy Believing Philosophy"..........saying that "All" You got to do, is Just simply Believe, and then You are Saved, Making the devil's saved right along with themselve's, (James 2:19),...the devils also believe and tremble,.... if we study these Scripture's out, it doesn't confirm an Easy Believing Philosophy Salvation......Notice, in vs.8,...For by Grace are ye saved "THROUGH" Faith,...we know in Jame's ch.2, that Faith without WORKS is Dead,....so therefore, if there isn't any Works, then there isn't any Genuine Real Faith, and If there isn't any Genuine real Faith, then how can that easy believism believer, say that He would have Grace Salvation?....Notice: in vs.8 again, "THROUGH FAITH",:idea: .....see all of these Scriptures fit together, not Leaving anything overlooked, ...and the Scripture cannot be broken,...(John 10:35),....and now again Look at vs.10,...unto Good Works, which God hath before ordained "that We should walk in them"...:banana: , Now were getting Somewhere, Notice, that the Bible speaks of "GOOD WORKS" that GOD ordained that we Should walk in them......and Faith without works is dead, (James ch. 2)......Now I ask every one, Shouldn't We have Alive Faith?........But be ye doer's of the Word and Not Hearer's ONly, decieving your own selve's.(James 1:22).................Saint's we must give these truth's to those who believe in the False "Easy Believism Philosophy" concerning Salvation...............be blessed in Jesus Name,........Brett Cannon, Aquila And Priscilla Acts 2:38 Truth Ministries, Banner Elk, NC www.freewebs.com/aquilandpriscillacts238/ (http://www.freewebs.com/aquilandpriscillacts238/)

[Inspired-Eyes]

Bro rutledge excellent post,I hope this post sticks around!!!
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


For many years I struggled with that "born again" verse: until the Lord led me to its true meaning. I used to think, how can the apostolic and those who espouse the trinity use the same verses to preach their doctrine: they BOTH cannot be correct!

Yes, Beloved, a man cannot believe unless it has been given to him FROM ABOVE. The Lord said, "Blessed are you Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you..." The revelation given to Peter came FROM ABOVE: from the Father of lights.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus the same thing, because Nicodemus had received the revelation that "...no man can do these things...except God be with him..." Jesus told him, "...except b a man be 'born again', he cannot SEE the kingdom..." In today's vernacular, Jesus said: "...except it be revealed FROM ABOVE, a man cannot understand nor perceive the kingdom..."
A young man came to Jesus, calling Jesus "...good Master..." When Jesus heard this, he asked: "Why do you call me good? There is none good but the Father." In effect, Jesus was asking the young man WHY he was calling Jesus "good": was he speaking of his own self, or had he received the revelation FROM ABOVE? Had he received the revelation that "...God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself..."?

The “Born Again” experience is a call to believe the Gospel: a calling to repent.

Brother villa

[Inspired-Eyes]

His NAME is Jesus!



A young man came to Jesus, calling Jesus "...good Master..." When Jesus heard this, he asked: "Why do you call me good? There is none good but the Father." In effect, Jesus was asking the young man WHY he was calling Jesus "good": was he speaking of his own self, or had he received the revelation FROM ABOVE? Had he received the revelation that "...God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself..."?



Brother villa

amen

[Inspired-Eyes]

Jhn 3:4 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=3&verse=4&version=kjv#4)Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=3&verse=5&version=kjv#5)Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=3&verse=6&version=kjv#6)That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=3&verse=7&version=kjv#7)Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


I sure hope I dont make anyone mad at me :) but I have a rare take on this.

In the scripture text here in context I dont believe that being born of water
is talking about being baptised in water but rather being born from the womb.

Since we know that baptisim is being burried with christ we know
that this is not being "born " but rather being "burried with him."

However there are countless examples in scripture that tells us that
we should be baptised "IN water" in the name. Not the same as "of water"

I personaly believe that being born again is seen in our example,
Jesus christ. Death burial ressurection.

For me I see that born again and born of spirit are very simular.
And to be born of spirit or born again we obey acts 2:38

Knowing that because of the work that JESUS did we are able to take part in it.
We are able to take part in His death burial and ressurection by
repenting being baptised in His name and recieving the holyghost.

If we look at the words that Jesus was the first born from the dead
we can see the example there of being "born again".

In order to be born only, one doesnt have to do anything.. but in
order for someone to be born again or resurrected we must
die.


Rom 6:4 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom006.html#4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Col 2:12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Col/Col002.html#12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

[Inspired-Eyes]

p.s. I dont know a whole lot of stuff. :)

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


Inspired-Eyes:
"In the scripture text here in context I dont believe that being born of water is talking about being baptised in water but rather being born from the womb."

If you are referring to a mother's womb, I have heard that from the AOG. If that were the case, there would not be any need for being baptized in water! It is similiar to the doctrine of salvation through repentance only: all I would have to do to be saved is repent, and then [perhaps?] get baptized and/or receive the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said, "He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved..."
Peter said, "Repent...be baptized...shall receive the Holy Spirit..."
That means, "Believe that God is righteous and I am not; believe that my sins will be remitted in the waters of baptism when the NAME that is above every name that is named is invoked on my behalf; believe that I will then receive the Spirit that is able to resurrect me on the last day." (Incidentally, that is the Gospel according to Brother villa).

Again, "...that which is born of the flesh is flesh..." So whosoever is born of a woman will operate according to the flesh; while "...he that is born of the Spirit, is spirit." What Spirit is that? The Spirit that was SPOKEN by the Lord Jesus and imparted to the apostles and prophets so we might believe and be saved, when he said: "The WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE." They are the WORDS which were spoken from the beginning, saying, " 'Let there be light': and there was light."


Brother villa

[Inspired-Eyes]

What I was saying is that born of water in that particular scripture was talking about being born of flesh.
Being born of spirit includes all of the following.......repentance
being baptised in Jesus name /burried with him into death(in water) and recieving the holyghost.
Now Just because I said that this particular scripture (to me) is saying
born of flesh doesnt mean I am saying that we should not be baptised in water.
There are many scriptures that tell us that we must infact be baptised in the
name........and this need be done in water.

[Inspired-Eyes]

Act 2:38 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Act&chapter=2&verse=38&version=kjv#38)Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
Mat 3:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat003.html#6) And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mat 3:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat003.html#16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mar 1:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar001.html#5) And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mar 1:8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar001.html#8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 3:23 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn003.html#23) And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

I am 100% in agreement with water baptisim.

[Inspired-Eyes]

His NAME is Jesus!




Jesus said, "He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved..."
Peter said, "Repent...be baptized...shall receive the Holy Spirit..."
That means, "Believe that God is righteous and I am not; believe that my sins will be remitted in the waters of baptism when the NAME that is above every name that is named is invoked on my behalf; believe that I will then receive the Spirit that is able to resurrect me on the last day." (Incidentally, that is the Gospel according to Brother villa).

Again, "...that which is born of the flesh is flesh..." So whosoever is born of a woman will operate according to the flesh; while "...he that is born of the Spirit, is spirit." What Spirit is that? The Spirit that was SPOKEN by the Lord Jesus and imparted to the apostles and prophets so we might believe and be saved, when he said: "The WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE." They are the WORDS which were spoken from the beginning, saying, " 'Let there be light': and there was light."


Brother villa

AMEN BROTHER!

[Bro.Sam]

...

In order to see the kingdom we must be born again. In order to enter the kingdom we must be born again of the water and of the spirit.
...
I am not of those who believe that you are saved before you receive the Holy Ghost. The scripture is very clear in the teaching of the Lord that we must be born of water and of the spirit in order to enter and enjoy observing the things of God.

In John 3:3 Jesus said that a person has to be born again to see (experience) the kingdom of God. The late Bro. L.R. Ooton called this "the except without exception."

In John 3:5 Jesus answers the question posed by Nicodemus about re-entering his mother's womb for this second birth. Jesus says, "except a man be born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." He does not say, "except a man be born again of water and Spirit..." Because of the wording there some believe Jesus was contrasting the two births, one of water (or born of the flesh) and one of Spirit (born of the Spirit).

[Bro.Sam]

One of the factors that affects our view of just how and when a person is saved is our understanding of what the “water” is or of what the term “born of water” means in John 3:5.

For purposes of this post I am using the terms “born again” or “regenerated” and “saved” as being the same experience. This would be salvation according to the way I understand that it is presented in our New Testament. I’m using it in the sense that we have been saved from sin and we are currently saved. I am not using it in the sense that our salvation will not actually be completed until we are resurrected incorruptible and immortal.

There are not a whole lot of references to being born again in the Bible that I can think of right now. The primary passage is John 3:1-21 which is the classic story of Nicodemus who came to Jesus by night. 1 Peter 1:23 refers to a time in the past when we were “born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, by the word of God.” James 1:18 says “of his own will begat he us with the word of truth.” In Titus 3:5 Paul speaks of “the washing of regeneration” and in Gal 3:29 he says, “ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” and follows that with a reference to our having been baptized into Christ (into the name of Christ according to the Syriac Bible) and having put on Christ. The Apostle John refers to us as “sons of God” (1 John 3:1-2), “children of God” (1 John 5:2) and as “born of God” (1 John 5:1, 4) plus other references in his epistle.

A few words about the classic passage on regeneration. John starts out by telling us about Nicodemus, a ruler (Sanhedrin member) and a Pharisee who came to Jesus by night. Jesus spoke these words to him, “Except a man be born again (or born anew or born from above), he cannot see (perceive, comprehend, experience) the kingdom of God” (verse 3). Nicodemus asks, “How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?” Jesus then answers this query as recorded in verses 5-8. “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus then asks another question, “How can these things be?” Jesus then gives an explanation which is found in verses 10-21. The account goes on. Jesus answered and said unto him, “Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

Jesus said that there is a birth of water and a birth of Spirit. He also said that this new birth experience was something “that we (He and others at that time) do know, and that we have seen” (verse 11) so it was something that had already happened to some and had been experienced by some. Jesus also said that this rebirth was the result of believing in Him (verses 15-21). He compared it to the Israelites in the wilderness receiving new life by looking by faith at the brazen serpent which had been hung on a pole (Numbers 21:4-8).

Now, what about the “water” in verse 5?

I don’t know how many opinions there are about what the “water” is that is spoken of there. I know about several and I will list them below.

1. Some believe that “born of water’ refers to our first birth. In our mother’s womb we were carried in a sac of water. When we came into the world this water was spilled. A woman may refer to this by saying, “My water broke,” or “they (hospital workers) broke my water.” The fluid is some times called “amniotic fluid” but is generally referred to as water. Those who believe in this theory say that in verse 5, Jesus was answering Nicodemus’ question about being born when he is old and about entering into his mother’s womb again. Jesus was saying some thing like, “No, you don’t go back into the womb. Don’t confuse the two births. This is a second birth, a rebirth. The first birth was a birth of water but the second birth is a birth of the Spirit. The first birth was of the flesh and affects you physically but the second birth is a birth of the Spirit and affects your spirit.”

2. Some believe that the “water’ spoken of in John 3:5 is the “Word of God.” Both 1 Peter 1:23 and James 1:18 mention the word being part of the new birth process. Another verse used to support this is John 15:3 where Jesus said, “Now are ye clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.” Jesus is the vine and we are the branches and these branches are clean through the word. I think it was Bro. Gordon Magee that said Jesus was not referring to washing the branches with the word like water but was referring to pruning them with the penknife of the word. Another verse that is used to show that this water is the word is Eph 5:26 that is usually (mis)quoted as “that he might sanctify and cleanse it by the washing of the water of the word.” If you read the King James Bible it does not really say it quite that way.

3. Others believe that the water spoken of in verse 5 is the Spirit of God. God’s Spirit is referred to as water several places in the Bible. This is based on a rule called “Granville Sharp’s rule.” This rule states that “when you have two nouns, which are not proper names, and the two nouns are connected by the word "and," and the first noun has the article ("the") while the second does not, both nouns are referring to the same person.” This rule is some times invoked by Oneness teachers to show that phrases like “our God and Savior” or “the God and Father” both refer to the same person because there is no “the” in the Greek text in front of the second noun. I am not a Greek scholar. I don’t know if that applies here but some say it does and the “water and spirit” both refer to the same thing. The Amplified Bible offers as an alternate reading “except a man be born of water even the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Dr. Kenneth Wuest’s Expanded Translation renders verse 5 as “unless a person is born out of water as a source, even out of the Spirit as a source, he is not able to enter the kingdom of God.”

4. Another theory is that “born of water” refers to water baptism. The (Roman Catholic) Douay Bible has a note at John 3:5 which says, “By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism: and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words (Matthew 28:9).” The Roman Catholics are not the only ones that believe this. It is also taught by some Protestants, by the Church of Christ (Campbellites) and by some Oneness Pentecostals. Another verse used to show that this is water baptism is Ezekiel 36:25-27 where God speaks of a time in the future when He will sprinkle Israel with clean water to cleanse them, give them a new heart, put a new Spirit within them, take out their heart of stone, and cause them to walk in His statutes and keep His judgments. Also cited is the old custom of Jews referring to Gentiles who had converted to Judaism and had gone through the mikveh cleansing as being “born of water.”

There may be other interpretations of what the water of John 3:5 means but these are some that I have heard. You may have heard others. You may believe one of the above or maybe none of the above. I just wanted to show that there are different ways that people look at John 3:5. I am not arguing in favor of any of these. I’m just placing them before you.

[cineasttx]

I believe you are born again when you receive the Holy Ghost.

[Bro.Sam]

I believe you are born again when you receive the Holy Ghost.

question about this.

Ordinarily we tell people to repent and then get baptized in water first.
Then the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) is a subsequent experience.

Do you believe a person is born again when they receive the HGB whether they get water baptized or not?
or
If a person receives the HGB prior to water baptism, is the person born again prior to water baptism?

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


Bro.Sam:
"For purposes of this post I am using the terms “born again” or “regenerated” and “saved” as being the same experience. This would be salvation according to the way I understand that it is presented in our New Testament. I’m using it in the sense that we have been saved from sin and we are currently saved. I am not using it in the sense that our salvation will not actually be completed until we are resurrected incorruptible and immortal.
"

The "Born Again" experience IS NOT necessarily synonymous with salvation, although no one can be saved without it BECAUSE no one can be saved and not repent.
The term "regeneration" refers to the restoration of fallen man: not solely as individuals, but as humanity as a whole.

The words "Born" has two definitions in the Greek: they are (1) "to come out of the womb"; and, (2) "to be begotten". That is why Nicodemus misunderstood Jesus, and asked him, "...can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered that a man, in order to ENTER into God's kingdom, must first be begotten of God; that is, a man must allow God's word to take ahold of a his heart and soul.
The Apostle Peter said as much: "Being born again (begotten from above), not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. The Apostle John also bears witness, saying: "Which were born (begotten), not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I submit that a man is NOT "born again" when he receives the Holy Spirit: but it is a sign that he has been accepted into God's family. Now, God can accept a person because he knows the person's heart; nevertheless, one can reject the counsel of God to the point that he will be rejected! That is why those who genuinely have the Holy Spirit and REJECT the NAME of the Lord in the waters of baptism are in danger of their souls...because satan has "...beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."


Brother villa

[Inspired-Eyes]

It is good and easy to talk with you bro villa and bro sam. I appreicate you both
for you kindness.

Bro Villa, this is just a few simple things I feel because I am a very simple person.

When the people of the new testament were told to be bapitsed, they were not
in the least bit confussed (in my strong opinion) of what that ment. I believe they
understood very well that to be bapitised was to be submerged, or burried, in the
water. I think its the people today that get confussed on what it actually means
to be bapitised. I want to just let you know that (in my strong belief) in order to
be born again we must be bapitsed in the name for the remission of our sins
no matter where we place it..... meaning bapitised first or holyghost first doesnt
matter , because we have a God who knows all and sees all. I believe those who
heard Jesus and those before him and after saying be bapitized..... Even those before referance in john; understood,
(hey you
go get in da water and envoke that name and put on that name because this
is a name given whereby you must be saved.)

Which brings me to something else...when I said before that I BELIEVE
in order to be born again we must die..........I feel that when we are
bapitsed (in the name in the water) we are burried into his death.

And to be quite honest I only use the terms in this order ....
death burial and ressurection, because I know the common person
can understand these terms. When I really look at........

A.repentance,B. baptisim (we know what that means) , C.recieving holyghost

I see , A.I am sorry for my ways and am now willing to do it your way,
B. Doing it your way now and will be (buried with you into death)for remission
of my sins.
C. I recieve Your precious gift (Your spirit)

Not always in that order , but I doing all these things am a new creature,
have newness of life, am born again. Baptisim is essential to new birth,
Holyghost baptisim is essential to the new birth. I will learn from the spirit how
to walk, I am sure I will crawl some before I walk and I might even stumble
but I will walk after the spirit none the less. IT IS MY PRAYER
THAT I WILL ENDURE TILL THE END AND BE SAVED.

[cineasttx]

question about this.

Ordinarily we tell people to repent and then get baptized in water first.
Then the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) is a subsequent experience.

Do you believe a person is born again when they receive the HGB whether they get water baptized or not?
or
If a person receives the HGB prior to water baptism, is the person born again prior to water baptism?

Let me explain further, When we repent (turn away) from sin, and are baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Gost, that is the point of rebirth as I understand it. The Spirit of God is born in us at that point.
And yes I believe some people get the Holy Ghost before baptism and some during, and some after. So yes they are born again prior to water baptism if they have received the Holy Ghost. He restores our souls to the position we are to be with God.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


cineasttx:
And yes I believe some people get the Holy Ghost before baptism and some during, and some after. So yes they are born again prior to water baptism if they have received the Holy Ghost. He restores our souls to the position we are to be with God.

Have to ask you, Beloved: What about the "sin" question?

I maintain, as does scripture, that the "born again" experience is repentance and NOT salvation itself. It is given to "...see the kingdom..." On the other hand, being "...born of water and of the Spirit..." gives us an entering IN to the kingdom. Nevertheless, sin will not allow us to enter in.
In Deuteronomy, the Lord speaks by the prophet, saying: "I have put before you life and death: good and evil. CHOOSE therefore life, that you and your seed may live." The offer is for life; but Israel was GIVEN to first see, so that they might choose life. They had an option NOT to choose life, but death. Today, we also have an option: whether or Not to repent. One will not repent if he does not heed the calling.


Brother villa

[ThroughTheCross]

In the first place the word repent used in Acts 2:38 meant to "change one's mind" Hence Peter preached The message about this is the same Jesus that you Crucified. So they were to change their mind about Jesus and accept he was the Messiah. Accepting that then allowed the Spirit to come and live inside of the believer and then only could one turn from sin. Noone without God can turn from sin, as our hearts are continueously on evil from our youth. Thats the problem with the Modern Church, most think that you can turn away from sin on your own then come to God. It is imppossible for man to turn from sin without being born again!

Secondly according to your own belief and doctrine here then Bro. Sam was not saved until May of 1956.

"Saved/justified/born again March 28, 1955
Baptized in water in Jesus' Name October 27, 1955
Received the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) May 20, 1956"

I argue that by your own belief and Doctrine then if Bro. Sam would have died or the rapture took place then He would not have been saved. Becasue he was not baptized until 6 months later. For the ones that believe you have to have the Holy Ghost then he was not saved until over a year later in May of 56'

I agree that simply believing is not good enough becasue the Devil also believes but believing from the heart and accepting the Word of God and repenting(Changing your mind about God and live for him) instead of the devil. Doing that then allows the Spirit of God to come into you which in turn will produce good works if you yeild to the Spirit of God.

Your works are not the works of the Gospel. Your works are man made and therefore The object of your Faith is not in the Finished work of Christ but that of yourselves saying that you yourself on your own turn from sin and then go dunk in some water some where and then that is still not good enough you claim that you have to speak in tounges. It is all you, you, you, what you do, and not what Christ has already done.

Please my apology for the straighforwardness but I to must spread the Gospel and was not sent to baptise but to Preach Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. You look down on people that are just as Spirit Filled, Tounge talking as you and condem them becasue it was not your way!

Therefore I proclaim "Repent" (Change your mind) and let the love of God fill your hearts and your lives.

In Christ

[angelindesguise]

In the first place the word repent used in Acts 2:38 meant to "change one's mind" Hence Peter preached The message about this is the same Jesus that you Crucified. So they were to change their mind about Jesus and accept he was the Messiah. Accepting that then allowed the Spirit to come and live inside of the believer and then only could one turn from sin. Noone without God can turn from sin, as our hearts are continueously on evil from our youth. Thats the problem with the Modern Church, most think that you can turn away from sin on your own then come to God. It is imppossible for man to turn from sin without being born again!

Secondly according to your own belief and doctrine here then Bro. Sam was not saved until May of 1956.

"Saved/justified/born again March 28, 1955
Baptized in water in Jesus' Name October 27, 1955
Received the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) May 20, 1956"

I argue that by your own belief and Doctrine then if Bro. Sam would have died or the rapture took place then He would not have been saved. Becasue he was not baptized until 6 months later. For the ones that believe you have to have the Holy Ghost then he was not saved until over a year later in May of 56'

I agree that simply believing is not good enough becasue the Devil also believes but believing from the heart and accepting the Word of God and repenting(Changing your mind about God and live for him) instead of the devil. Doing that then allows the Spirit of God to come into you which in turn will produce good works if you yeild to the Spirit of God.

Your works are not the works of the Gospel. Your works are man made and therefore The object of your Faith is not in the Finished work of Christ but that of yourselves saying that you yourself on your own turn from sin and then go dunk in some water some where and then that is still not good enough you claim that you have to speak in tounges. It is all you, you, you, what you do, and not what Christ has already done.

Please my apology for the straighforwardness but I to must spread the Gospel and was not sent to baptise but to Preach Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. You look down on people that are just as Spirit Filled, Tounge talking as you and condem them becasue it was not your way!

Therefore I proclaim "Repent" (Change your mind) and let the love of God fill your hearts and your lives.

In Christ


Through The Cross,
I didn't understand the Apostles Doctrine Until about 14 years ago.
I Married my husband who was raised Apostolic when I was 18. I was raised in a Southern Baptist home. But in 1993, God started working in my life and gave me a whole new prospective. He knew I truly desired to be saved. We sold our home and moved to my husband's community, ( which I said I would never live in, placed me in an Apostolic church which I said I would never go to, and filled me with the Holy Ghost which I said wasn't necessary in order to be saved. ) I'm no longer the old person I use to be, but am a new creation in Christ Jesus. The Holy Ghost is for everyone. I hope you will study the book of Acts more closly, and God will open your understanding and help you understand His plan of salvation if you desire it. It is the one true plan of salvation. :angel:

[zurnman]

In the first place the word repent used in Acts 2:38 meant to "change one's mind" Hence Peter preached The message about this is the same Jesus that you Crucified. So they were to change their mind about Jesus and accept he was the Messiah. Accepting that then allowed the Spirit to come and live inside of the believer and then only could one turn from sin. Noone without God can turn from sin, as our hearts are continueously on evil from our youth. Thats the problem with the Modern Church, most think that you can turn away from sin on your own then come to God. It is imppossible for man to turn from sin without being born again!

Secondly according to your own belief and doctrine here then Bro. Sam was not saved until May of 1956.

"Saved/justified/born again March 28, 1955
Baptized in water in Jesus' Name October 27, 1955
Received the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) May 20, 1956"

I argue that by your own belief and Doctrine then if Bro. Sam would have died or the rapture took place then He would not have been saved. Becasue he was not baptized until 6 months later. For the ones that believe you have to have the Holy Ghost then he was not saved until over a year later in May of 56'

I agree that simply believing is not good enough becasue the Devil also believes but believing from the heart and accepting the Word of God and repenting(Changing your mind about God and live for him) instead of the devil. Doing that then allows the Spirit of God to come into you which in turn will produce good works if you yeild to the Spirit of God.

Your works are not the works of the Gospel. Your works are man made and therefore The object of your Faith is not in the Finished work of Christ but that of yourselves saying that you yourself on your own turn from sin and then go dunk in some water some where and then that is still not good enough you claim that you have to speak in tounges. It is all you, you, you, what you do, and not what Christ has already done.

Please my apology for the straighforwardness but I to must spread the Gospel and was not sent to baptise but to Preach Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. You look down on people that are just as Spirit Filled, Tounge talking as you and condem them becasue it was not your way!

Therefore I proclaim "Repent" (Change your mind) and let the love of God fill your hearts and your lives.

In Christ
You are aware that even Jesus was baptised, the Holy Ghost like as a dove decended on him and he had just recently preached "repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". Jesus was our example to follow. The house of Cornelius were believers of Jesus, but needed Peter's message "Acts 2:38" in which they were baptised and recieved the Holy Ghost. You might could say, "what would have happened if they had died before Peter got there." There's an answer to this question in the scriptures,...(I have never seen the righteous forsaken....) What God did for the house of Cornelius, he did for Bro. Sam...He provided everything needed and in plenty of time.

[ThroughTheCross]

Angelindesguise,

Thanks for you kind comments, I in fact have and do continue to study the book of Acts as well as all scripture. I am in fact born again,(Saved, washed in the Blood Jesus Christ, old man dead and am a new creature in Christ Jesus). I am in fact Holy Ghost Baptized, filled with the Spirit whatever one chooses to term it. I do in fact Speak in Tounges and God uses me with the "Gift of Tounges" in service at various times as He chooses. But because it was not your way will you now say that I am not saved and the Tounges that I speak are not of God?

Zurnman,

I too believe in Water Baptism but not for me to be Saved. Cornelius's household heard the Word and accepted the Lord Jesus Christ and were filled with the Spirit the same as the day of Pentecost then were Baptised in Water. There is no rule nowhere in scripture stating that one must be water Baptised to be saved. I am saved because I have repented (changed my mind and now live for God by the Power of the Holy Spirit), by believing in the finished work of the Cross. That work was a Finished work, all sin had been Atoned, then, now and forever. By accepting that then the Spirit of God can then come into my life, hence "Born-Again" and that produces good works, or "Fruits unto Repentance" as John the Baptis said. "for the remission of sin" or "forgiveness of sin" is mis translated and actually should read "Because of remission of sins" we are to be Baptised.

I know that this is a never ending argument here as we all can go dig every scripture in the Bible and try to justify our claims. But you did not answer the question about Bro. Sam

What happened to all the saints that died before the UPC decided to split from the Assembly of God in 1945? were they really saved? What about the ones that were there and was the ones that split? Can not possibly believe none of them were truly saved until they split and formed this "False Doctrine"

In Christ

[John Atkinson]

eis (for) doesn't mean "because" in any lexicon I have ever looked at. But rather into, unto, for, towards...

Thus
for the remission of sins
unto the remission of sins
into the remission of sins

All say the same thing. Because is a manufactured definition because some folks don't like the real one.

With all long suffering and charity I would like to remind you that this site is zealous about the "True Doctrine" of Repentance, Baptism in Jesus name and the in-filling of the Holy Ghost as absolutely essential for salvation.

And we don't pay the bills here to allow people who don't believe that to come proselytize with the false doctrine that say's there is another plan.


(8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
(9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The Gospel Paul preached was the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The response to the Gospel Paul preached is the same one Peter did to the Jews at Pentecost and the household of Cornelius, that was preached by Philip also to the Samaritans.

On this web site there is no debating that. If you want to debate oneness folks... go to CARM.

In Him,

[angelindesguise]

eis (for) doesn't mean "because" in any lexicon I have ever looked at. But rather into, unto, for, towards...

Thus
for the remission of sins
unto the remission of sins
into the remission of sins

All say the same thing. Because is a manufactured definition because some folks don't like the real one.

With all long suffering and charity I would like to remind you that this site is zealous about the "True Doctrine" of Repentance, Baptism in Jesus name and the in-filling of the Holy Ghost as absolutely essential for salvation.

And we don't pay the bills here to allow people who don't believe that to come proselytize with the false doctrine that say's there is another plan.


The Gospel Paul preached was the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The response to the Gospel Paul preached is the same one Peter did to the Jews at Pentecost and the household of Cornelius, that was preached by Philip also to the Samaritans.

On this web site there is no debating that. If you want to debate oneness folks... go to CARM.

In Him,

Thank you Brother John, I appreciate what you stand for. :angel:

[Manila1485]

Why does something that seems so simple confuse a lot of people? Maybe the fact that it is so plain causes it to get overlooked.

Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. Then Jesus went on to say that except a man be born of water and Spirit, he will not enter into the Kingdom. Jesus was clearly saying that being born again requires being born of water and Spirit.

He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved.

[ThroughTheCross]

"in any lexicon I have ever looked",

That would be the ones that you choose to be correct.

"True Doctrine"?'

With all lonsuffering and Charity you mean "False Doctrine" as you preach another Jesus! The Jesus of the Bible was not good enough for you! The suffering and death that He endured was not good enough for you! So you have to create another way by your works and formulas. "The Name" the Power is not in the name as you speak but the Power is The One who is behind that name!

You go ahead a kick me off of this forum but it will not change the fact that you Preach another Jesus! and believe but are afraid to say that I am not saved and the Holy Ghost that is within me is not of God!, Becareful Brother as to what you say about God!!!!!!!, Why not try and convince me your way rather than to say not allow me freedom of exspressing what I believe is the "True Gospel". Your statements are very typical of a Pharisee!!!!!!!!!!!

with all love my Brother,

In Christ

[zurnman]

Angelindesguise,

Thanks for you kind comments, I in fact have and do continue to study the book of Acts as well as all scripture. I am in fact born again,(Saved, washed in the Blood Jesus Christ, old man dead and am a new creature in Christ Jesus). I am in fact Holy Ghost Baptized, filled with the Spirit whatever one chooses to term it. I do in fact Speak in Tounges and God uses me with the "Gift of Tounges" in service at various times as He chooses. But because it was not your way will you now say that I am not saved and the Tounges that I speak are not of God?

Zurnman,

I too believe in Water Baptism but not for me to be Saved. Cornelius's household heard the Word and accepted the Lord Jesus Christ and were filled with the Spirit the same as the day of Pentecost then were Baptised in Water. There is no rule nowhere in scripture stating that one must be water Baptised to be saved. I am saved because I have repented (changed my mind and now live for God by the Power of the Holy Spirit), by believing in the finished work of the Cross. That work was a Finished work, all sin had been Atoned, then, now and forever. By accepting that then the Spirit of God can then come into my life, hence "Born-Again" and that produces good works, or "Fruits unto Repentance" as John the Baptis said. "for the remission of sin" or "forgiveness of sin" is mis translated and actually should read "Because of remission of sins" we are to be Baptised.

I know that this is a never ending argument here as we all can go dig every scripture in the Bible and try to justify our claims. But you did not answer the question about Bro. Sam

What happened to all the saints that died before the UPC decided to split from the Assembly of God in 1945? were they really saved? What about the ones that were there and was the ones that split? Can not possibly believe none of them were truly saved until they split and formed this "False Doctrine"

In Christ
You must feel that what ever your affiliation is has the truth and I am lost because of my belief in "False Doctrine". Or do you believe even those following "False Doctrine" can be saved. I believe one must first understand who Jesus is and that his first consideration for any one is to acknowledge his existence as their Saviour, then repent, the first commandment God ask of those wishing to enter into the kingdom of heaven, then be baptised even as he was, by immersion in water and this must be done in the Name of Jesus...Acts 2:38...and he shall give you the Gift of the Holy Ghost...and with many other words taught by the preachers he sends to us we are told to save ourselves from this untoward generation. There are so many things to do and yet some say there is basically nothing to do. Excepting Jesus as your Saviour is only the beginning of Salvation it is not the end of it. Am I saved if I except Jesus as my Saviour or doomed by my "False Doctine" even though I agree with you on the only requirement to be saved as explained by you. Or exactly what does your affiliation require for being "Born Again"?

[zurnman]

Why does something that seems so simple confuse a lot of people? Maybe the fact that it is so plain causes it to get overlooked.

Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. Then Jesus went on to say that except a man be born of water and Spirit, he will not enter into the Kingdom. Jesus was clearly saying that being born again requires being born of water and Spirit.

He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved.
I understood that and I am very simple minded. :)

[John Atkinson]

"in any lexicon I have ever looked",

That would be the ones that you choose to be correct.

"True Doctrine"?'

With all lonsuffering and Charity you mean "False Doctrine" as you preach another Jesus! The Jesus of the Bible was not good enough for you! The suffering and death that He endured was not good enough for you! So you have to create another way by your works and formulas. "The Name" the Power is not in the name as you speak but the Power is The One who is behind that name!

You go ahead a kick me off of this forum but it will not change the fact that you Preach another Jesus! and believe but are afraid to say that I am not saved and the Holy Ghost that is within me is not of God!, Becareful Brother as to what you say about God!!!!!!!, Why not try and convince me your way rather than to say not allow me freedom of exspressing what I believe is the "True Gospel". Your statements are very typical of a Pharisee!!!!!!!!!!!

with all love my Brother,

In Christ

Well... it's been fun. Not afraid, BTW, the ONLY way to be saved is to obey Acts 2:38 and then keep serving the Lord in Holiness until death or his coming, whichever comes first.

I have no doubt people receive the real spirit of God, but the purpose is to lead them and guide them into ALL TRUTH, which includes Jesus name baptism. Romans says that they that are LED by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

If people don't follow the Spirit into ALL TRUTH, then well..... fill in the blanks. I don't want to judge, but the word is the judge, I don't send anyone to hell. Nor do I take anyone's going there lightly, especially one who believes in Jesus.

With all love to you as well. It isn't with animosity that I ban you, but rather the motive of keeping this site within it's designated purpose, as a place for Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals.

No hard feelings...

[Manila1485]

I understood that and I am very simple minded. :)

You're not as simple minded as you make out, brother. lol. You post some very good, thought prevoking points.

Well... it's been fun.


I knew that was coming, and not a moment too soon.

[John Atkinson]

I knew that was coming, and not a moment too soon.
The guy was plainly here on a mission. I have gotten to where I can read the motive in the post regardless of how nice the words sound. I don't give place to that.

[zurnman]

Yes, Believing in the Lord Jesus and excepting Him as your personal Saviour is part of Salvation. There are many that believe this is the beginning and the end of Salvation. They believe all of the rest of the scriptures is like desert, you can take it or leave it. To me, excepting Jesus as my Saviour means I'm going to not only believe in Him, but every thing He has spoken. The entire Holy Bible are His words. If I am going to confess I believe in Him I must do what He says for me to do. The first thing He ask us to do is repent. There is no salvation beginning with out repentance. And the repentance must be heart felt and real, not just words that are repeated from a card or tract. 2 Corinthians 7:10...For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. If a person truly repents they will seek to be born again, nothing can stop them from Baptism in Jesus name, and receiving the promise of the Holy Ghost the gift from God. NOTHING. If a person does not desire this then they have not truly repented and there can be no salvation because there is no godly sorrow. You may say I'm as saved as any one baptised in Jesus name, If you are His bride then you will love Him and take His name or there will be no bride groom coming for you.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


"Accepting" Jesus IS NOT part of the Gospel message. He is the Savior of the world whether we "accept" (agree with) him, or not.
The Gospel is still "He that believes (Repent,) and is baptized (and be baptized EVERYONE of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins), SHALL BE saved (SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Ghost)."

There are two reasons why everyone receives the Holy Spirt: (1) because one has repented and has been baptized "...for the remission of sins...", and the Lord has received them to himself; and (2) because the Lord has received them to himself, and is giving them the opportunity to be baptized "...for the remission of sins...". Either way, the scriptures cannot be broken.

Are all those who believed and were taught that baptism was not important truly "lost"? Well, the church is not called to judge the dead, but to preach to the living.
Can we say that ANYONE denying the NAME of Jesus is truly "saved"? "For there is no other NAME under heaven, given among men, in which we MUST be saved."


Brother villa