Is Jesus In The Godhead, or Is the Godhead in Jesus?

[BroRutledge]

Colossians 2:4-12
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

That settles it.
The godhead is in Jesus.
Jesus is not just one of the members of the godhead.

The philosophy and deceit of mankind has produced a traditional acceptance of a God committee made up of three persons. The Word of God does not back up the teaching of the three person godhead.

God is Spirit.

John 4:4-26
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

This chapter in the word of God is so dear to me. A sincere person with a heart seeking after God can find the truth about God in this passage.

Jesus made it so simple for this woman at the well that she could not deny that the moment of revelation of the Godhead had arrived.

People all over the world today are coming to the knowledge of TRUTH, and along with this revelation they are also seeing the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus.

I was in a revival sometime ago where bro Robert Bayer was preaching about the identity of Jesus. It was awesome. The message was recorded, and I am glad to share it with you.

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO BRO BAYER PREACH (http://www.acts238.org/bayer4.m3u)

[nytxn1971]

Col 2:6-15 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: (7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. (8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (12) [b]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (15) [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

[Brett Cannon]

Greetings in the Most precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ..........Definitely the Godhead is in Jesus.....Col.2:9.....he is the image of the invisible GOD.......for Jesus was God, come in the flesh....He, Jesus was son of man, son of God, and the real revelation is that he was God, come in the flesh........and NO i cannot fully understand One hundred percent of all of that, but i do believe that the Scriptures fully declare it in abundance...........and I believe that we must accept this gospel truth, (John 8:24).........Peace to you all...........Brett Cannon, Banner Elk, NC, Aquila And Priscilla Acts 2:38, Truth Ministries www.freewebs.com/aquilandpriscillacts238/ (http://www.freewebs.com/aquilandpriscillacts238/) Maverick1@skybest.com

[BOBJAMES]

BOTH !

John 14:10-11

[Donny Cage]

It should also be noted that...

God was manifested in the flesh (1 timothy 3:16) (Manifest means "reveal")

When God was revealed in flesh, how many "persons" were born? One. Jesus the Christ. He is the EXPRESS image of God's substance (Hebrews 1:3) Yet He is ONE person.

Trinitarianism holds to the idea that only the second person of a triune God was revealed in the flesh. Scripture, and Jesus says otherwise ("If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father").

God was manifested in the flesh (If God is a trinity, then the trinity was manifested in the flesh) - of course we know He is not a trinity, thus explaining why only one person showed up.

The problem comes from a pre-conceived idea that God is multiple in persons. When a trinitarian sees "Father" they automatically see "one of three persons". Yet, the biblical meaning for "Father" (pertaining to God) is and always has been a title/role of God (Malachi 2:10) as He is the Creator of all things. Of course He is also the Father of the Son, in the NT, but not figuratively. Literally. Luke 1:35; 2 John 1:3; Hebrews 1:5

I'm rambling. The Godhead is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Godhead. This is not to say that there are multiple persons and Jesus is one of these person within a group called "God".

"I am in the Father and the Father in Me" John 14:10

[Bro.Sam]

Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus?
The answer is, "Yes."

[tellmehow]

Colossians 2:4-12
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

That settles it.
The godhead is in Jesus.
Jesus is not just one of the members of the godhead.

The philosophy and deceit of mankind has produced a traditional acceptance of a God committee made up of three persons. The Word of God does not back up the teaching of the three person godhead.

God is Spirit.

John 4:4-26
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

This chapter in the word of God is so dear to me. A sincere person with a heart seeking after God can find the truth about God in this passage.

Jesus made it so simple for this woman at the well that she could not deny that the moment of revelation of the Godhead had arrived.

People all over the world today are coming to the knowledge of TRUTH, and along with this revelation they are also seeing the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus.

I was in a revival sometime ago where bro Robert Bayer was preaching about the identity of Jesus. It was awesome. The message was recorded, and I am glad to share it with you.

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO BRO BAYER PREACH (http://www.acts238.org/bayer4.m3u)

Bro. Bayer is the one who memorize the whole bible? He preaches without carrying the book. When he preach just tell you to flip the chapter and verse and then he quote the chapter and verse of the bible?? I love that man preach! He is a good preacher!

[Inspired-Eyes]

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: ..



I rejoice in the truth..............Listening to message, thank you for the link .

[Evangelist Paul]

This is the truth: There is one God; Jesus is God.
God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost; He has revealed himself as the Father of all that is and that through his Son he created all that is, and by the agency of his Holy Spirit he conducts business in the universe.

How does he do that without being "three persons?" - I don't know.

How does he do that as being the fullness in Christ? I don't know.

I can quote scriptures until I have exhausted all that has been written and still I cannot fully explain the spiritual essence of God. The mystery of God will not be fully realized until we reach beyond the veil of this flesh that causes us to see as through a glass darkly, and we stand face to face with the one who is God Almighty. Then we will understand.

Until then; we believe as the scripture has said, "The Lord he is one" and God was manifest in the flesh (and ALL Christians believe that to be Jesus).

The bottom line, according to scripture, is not that we are able to define God to the satisfaction of all others but that we accept the fact that God is one and that Jesus is the fleshly manifestation of that God.

I believe that every christian believes that.

[Cassius]

Colossians 2:4-12
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

That settles it.
The godhead is in Jesus.
Jesus is not just one of the members of the godhead.

The philosophy and deceit of mankind has produced a traditional acceptance of a God committee made up of three persons. The Word of God does not back up the teaching of the three person godhead.

God is Spirit.

John 4:4-26
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

This chapter in the word of God is so dear to me. A sincere person with a heart seeking after God can find the truth about God in this passage.

Jesus made it so simple for this woman at the well that she could not deny that the moment of revelation of the Godhead had arrived.

People all over the world today are coming to the knowledge of TRUTH, and along with this revelation they are also seeing the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus.

I was in a revival sometime ago where bro Robert Bayer was preaching about the identity of Jesus. It was awesome. The message was recorded, and I am glad to share it with you.

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO BRO BAYER PREACH (http://www.acts238.org/bayer4.m3u)

Trinitarians actually do believe that the Godhead was in Christ. Of course, if you believe that God is only one Person then to believe that the Godhead was in Christ would mean to believe that Christ is the only Person in the Godhead. So in that sense your logic is understandable Mr. Rutledge.

However, if you take the reasonable and biblical approach and realize that there is a plurality in the Godhead, it is actually very clearly taught in the Bible that Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead but that He still wasn't His own Father. Here's why. The KJV, which you yourself say is your favourite translation (translated by the Trinitarian scholars of the Church of England) uses the word "Godhead". The old English word "Godhead" comes from the term "Godhood" which meas exactly what it says - that which makes God, God. It is the same word as "manhood", "womanhood", etc. It describes the makeup and nature of an individual. Hence, Colossians 2:9 was clearly saying that "that which makes God, God" was totally revealed in Christ. It says nothing of the Father being incarnated in the flesh. It says that the Godhood was manifest in bodily form. Hence, Chirst, as the Eternal Son of God and Second Person of the Trinity, being fully God Himself, was a manifestation of the Godhead in all it's totality. Hence, 1 Timothy 3:16 says that God was manifest in the flesh. If the Son is fully God, and He was manifest in bodily form, then, logically, God was manifest in the flesh. This says nothing of the Father being incarnated which is something that is up to YOU to prove.

[OK_Kid]

The Godhead is: Father, Word, and Holy Ghost. The Godhead is Spirit. All the fullness of the Godhead, is manifest in the man Jesus Christ. The man Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son. Son is NOT a title that is in the Godhead, but the Godhead is manifest fully in the only begotten Son. Father, Son, Holy Ghost, is the Trinity Godhead! Father, Word, Holy Ghost, is the Oneness Godhead!

[zealwriter]

GODHOOD: that which makes GOD perceivable as GOD.
CHRIST is the consummation. CHRIST (or the blanket of flesh that GOD Almighty came and dwelt among us in) is the manifestation which makes GOD perceivable, as GOD is invisible. Variable semantics cause strifes and contention. Taste ye the power of the HOLY GHOST as illustrated in "Acts" and see that the LORD is as good as HE said and more than we'll ever be able to explain this side of glory.
Son of GOD: Extension, Manifestation, Outward Expression of GOD Almighty Himself, Rose of Sharon, King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father (Is. 9:6), The Beginning and Ending (1st Corinthians 15:28), Progenitor of all things (Col. 1:16).
There is the old English def' and then along with it is the Jewish concept in the translation. To the Jews "Son of GOD" meant equal with/or the same as GOD. That's why they took up stones to stone CHRIST at Him proclaiming to be "The Son of GOD" which is a distinct difference from "A Son of GOD". We could go on and on and on with this and opening it up more and more but I say again let the POWER speak for itself. He's the kind of GOD where there IS "proof in the pudding".

[Spreadhisword]

Trinitarians actually do believe that the Godhead was in Christ. Of course, if you believe that God is only one Person True Apostolic doctrine teaches that God was IN a person. Not that God was a person. We don't believe God was a person in no way. 2 Corinthians 5:19 ("God was in Christ"), 1 Timothy 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh") then to believe that the Godhead was in Christ would mean to believe that Christ is the only Person in the Godhead. So in that sense your logic is understandable Mr. Rutledge.

However, if you take the reasonable and biblical approach and realize that there is a plurality in the Godhead, (Duet 6:4 is a fundamental scripture on how God is one in every way. And the fact that the fullness of the Godhead (which by the way the definition of the Godhead is everything that makes God who he is, the quality of being God. The some total of God’s character, quality, attributes, personality.) This very clearly tells us that Jesus was the complete identity of who God was and is and that there is no plurality in the Godhead. it is actually very clearly taught in the Bible that Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead but that He still wasn't His own Father. Here's why. The KJV, which you yourself say is your favourite translation (translated by the Trinitarian scholars of the Church of England) uses the word "Godhead". The old English word "Godhead" comes from the term "Godhood" which meas exactly what it says - that which makes God, God. It is the same word as "manhood", "womanhood", etc. It describes the makeup and nature of an individual. Hence, Colossians 2:9 was clearly saying that "that which makes God, God" was totally revealed in Christ. It says nothing of the Father being incarnated in the flesh. What about 2 Corinthians 5:19? "GOD WAS IN CHRIST" It says that the Godhood was manifest in bodily form. Hence, Chirst, as the Eternal Son of God and Second Person of the Trinity, I would like to note here that no where in the bible are the two latter statements mentioned. There is not such mention of the Son being eternal or that he was a second subordinate person of a Trinity as this member has stated. being fully God Himself, was a manifestation of the Godhead in all it's totality. Hence, 1 Timothy 3:16 says that God was manifest in the flesh. If the Son is fully God, and He was manifest in bodily form, then, logically, God was manifest in the flesh. This says nothing of the Father being incarnated which is something that is up to YOU to prove.

Let's not forget John 1:1 here "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." And then John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

If one was to look up the meanings of the words "Word" and "God" in verse one they would find this.

Word: It means "The Divine Expression"

God: It means The Supreme Divinity

So now we can read this verse a little more clearly, In the beginning was the Divine Exspession, and the Divine Exspession was with the Supreme Divinity, and the Divine Exspession was the Supreme Divinity. I might also add that the Divine Exspession was Christ.

Now let's look at verse fourteen. "And the Word was made flesh," The Divine Expression was made flesh. That Divine Exspression (Jesus Christ, The Son of God) that was called the Supreme Divinity (God the Father) was made flesh. Now that is the Father being incarnated if I ever heard of it! Not to mention (once again) 2 Corinthians 5:19 "God was in Christ", John 10:38 "the Father is in me, and I in him.", John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [spoken, revealed] him". Matthew 1:18 "she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Luke 1:35 "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." All of these scriptures refer to the incarnation. There now it has been biblically proven to you. Now it is up to YOU to prove your statements true. You know the ones, the Son is eternal and the second person of some Trinity. Try proving God as a person period. I'd love to see that in the scripture! Especially sense the bible calls God an invisible, eternal, everlasting, Spirit! (John 4:24, 1 Timothy 1:17, colossians 1:15, Hebrews 11:27, Psalm 41:13, Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 63:16, Habakkuk 1:12) The bible never calls God a person, but we certainly can find where it calls him a spirit! God was eternal but the Son eternal? This can't be seems how we read where the Son ceased to exist at one point in time. Remember he died? So you now believe that God ceased to exist?

[Spreadhisword]

The Godhead is: Father, Word, and Holy Ghost. The Godhead is Spirit. All the fullness of the Godhead, is manifest in the man Jesus Christ. The man Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son. Son is NOT a title that is in the Godhead, but the Godhead is manifest fully in the only begotten Son. Father, Son, Holy Ghost, is the Trinity Godhead! Father, Word, Holy Ghost, is the Oneness Godhead!

The definition of the Godhead is everything that makes God who he is, the quality of being God. The sum total of God’s character, quality, attributes, personality. OK_Kid you are stating here to the effect that the Godhead is a substance this is untrue. One cannot be in the Godhead it is not a substance. The Father, Word (or Son), and Holy Ghost donnot make up The Godhead. That is a Trinitarian Idea. The Godhead is the definition I gave at the beginning of this post. It is everything that makes God who he is. The quality of being God. it is the sum total character, quality, attrbutes, personality. Here let me leave you with a study on this subject.

[Spreadhisword]

Do Father, Son, and Holy Ghost make up the One God?


I was reading the debate between two gentlemen on CARM (Schmit (Oneness) and James (Trinitarian), and I saw this closing comment from James. I found this quite interesting.

"So to sum up, we have within the One Godhead, the Person of Jesus, the Person of Father and the Person of the Holy Spirit. They are three distinct persons who all have the same nature/ essence that make up the "One" Being of God. There are "NOT" three gods as my opponent states. Again, I have proven that Jesus is indeed God the Son and not God the Father."

I have heard this comment a lot from Trinitarians and have come to the realization that they have no clue of how God is one. You see by saying what has been said here by this gentleman and others like him who believe this statement. They believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (or Spirit as some say), are what makes God who he is. And this idea goes against the Word of God. You see in Genesis1:1 the first four words say "In the beginning God....." These first four words prove our friend James and many others wrong in what they claim of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost make God who he is. Because if you read it correctly Genesis 1:1 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NASB&passage=Genesis+1%3A1) is saying that God was God before he became our Father (Malachi 2:10 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NASB&passage=Malachi+2%3A10))(The Creator). God was God before he became the Son (Matthew 1:21 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NASB&passage=Matthew+1%3A21))(The Redeemer). God was God before he became the Holy Ghost (John 14:6 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NASB&passage=John+14%3A6), John 14:16-18 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NASB&passage=John+14%3A16-18), John 14:26 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NASB&passage=John+14%3A26), Titus 3:5 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NASB&passage=Titus+3%3A5)) (The regenerator or the Life).

They DONNOT make him. He made them. He was God before all of this and yet these people try to sway everyone else from the truth of the scriptures and limit God to their imaginations. You see by saying what you said there James you limited God. And God is unlimited! God is not limited to a person(s). Or to anything for that matter. You put a limit on God just by what you say and believe. No wonder these people can't understand truth when it is looking them right in the face! That is not letting the spirit lead you. That is letting your human thinking overcome you and draw you aside. You see when you allow your mind to lead you, you can get into a lot of deep water. Be careful of the gainsayers all. (Titus 1:9)

[Spreadhisword]

I have even heard some people who claim to be Apostolic Pentecostal call God a person. Now I am Apostolic Pentecostal and have been my whole life. Yes, I have been raised in this truth. And let me tell you I have seen people change, and come, and go, and I think I've seen it all. But right when I think I have seen it all, something new pops up!

Now I understand what people are trying to say when they call God one person. But they also have to understand the danger of such words. Calling God a person is unbiblical. The bible says God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and it also calls him invisible.

Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus the image of the invisible God.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 Timothy 1:17 Calls God invisible.

1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Hebrews 11:27 also rferas to God as invisible.

Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Now these verses and many more show us that the God we believe in is not a person. We can say God was IN a person. (John 1:1, 14, 2 Corinthians 5:19, 1 Timothy 3:16, John 10:38, John 14;10-11, John 17:21, 23) But no where in the Bible does it actually say that God was a person. Therefore it is more accurate and biblically correct to say That God was IN a person, not God is a person.the only personage we ca n give to God is through the person of Jesus Christ. This my friends is true Oneness Theology.

[Dordt]

That God was IN a person, not God is a person.the only personage we ca n give to God is through the person of Jesus Christ. This my friends is true Oneness Theology.

Should that not be that God is in a person?
Because Jesus did not die, He is alive today.

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


Dordt:
"Should that not be that God is in a person?
Because Jesus did not die, He is alive today."

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

God was in the BODY of "...the man, Christ Jesus...": this signifying that the body was only the vehicle which God used to redeem man. But once Jesus was risen and then ascended to heaven, "...God hath made that same Jesus...both Lord and Christ." Too often we "see" the Lord only with our natural understanding, and confuse the Spirit which abode in him, and the body which veiled the TRUE GOD: "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh...".
A precious UPC Brother here in Scottsdale wrote a hymn about this, writing: "When I looked past the veil it was easy to see: he's my Lord and my God." We need to look past the veil, Beloved.

Now in reference to the death of Jesus, I find the the words of the Apostle Paul: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures...". He also wrote that had Jesus not risen from the dead, then we would all still be in our sins: you see, Beloved, the resurrection belongs only to Him who first "...died, according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures...".


Brother villa

[kingdomscribe]

The Godhead IS NOT: Father, Son, Holy Spirit
The Godhead IS NOT: Father, Word, Holy Spirit

The Godhead is God Himself. The Godhead was inside the body of the Son.

[zealwriter]

One individual operating in three distinct functions for the salvation of mankind-the oneness of GOD (Matthew 28:19)

[Aquila]

It's all in Him!

[kingdomscribe]

Often times even us Oneness believers fall prey to Trinitarian definitions of words like the word Godhead. If you ask someone, "What is the Godhead?" More than likely they will say that the Godhead is: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; or Father, Word, and Holy Spirit. That is a Trinitarian definition of the word Godhead, and not the etymology and true definition of the word Godhead from the Greek. Even if you read the context of every place where the word Godhead is used (which is only found in three places: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9) it is clear that the definition of God is not talking about three manifestations that God revealed Himself in. In fact if you look up the word Godhead in the Strong's you will find that in all three places they are not the same Greek word used (although they are very similar).


Acts 17:29 – Godhead: Theios (Strong’s # G2304): Deity
Romans 1:20 - Godhead: Theiotes (Strong’s # G2305): Divine Nature
Colossians 2:9 - Godhead: Theotes (Strong’s # G2320): Divine One


The passage in Colossians even proves that Godhead is not talking about 3 manifestations: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. IF the fullness of the Godhead is inside the Son, and IF the Godhead is 3 manifestations, then you will have two sons (the Son inside the Son which makes 4 manifestations instead of 3 manifestations). The word Godhead in Colossians 2:9 means Divine One which is GOD HIMSELF, not 3 manifestations.