The 1,000 years

[Romaw]

I really would like Bro. Rutledge to answer this if possible.
In Rev.20.. What is your understanding of the 1,000 in which satan is in the bottomless pit. And after that 1,000 years is over, he is loosed again out of his prison, for a season?
I have read and re-read this many times and truthfully do not understand it.
Will this start after the rapture? Or before? and the ones who are left, will they be with Jesus during the 1,000 years?
I am really trying to explain this to my grandson also.
Thank you , roma

[Romaw]

Well I am so sorry--- I made it sound like I didnt want anyones elses prospective on this. Please let me know yours. Again I do apoligize for my error.
roma

[SisEdith]

Well I am so sorry--- I made it sound like I didnt want anyones elses prospective on this. Please let me know yours. Again I do apoligize for my error.
roma
It's the millenial reign of Jesus Christ, the 1000 years of peace on earth. It's what the current world government is trying to set up...i.e. false peace on earth with it's false unity.

After the second coming, after he destroys the Antichrist system of government. Jesus Christ will set up his own government. Those who survived armageddon will be there. Those who go in the Rapture will rule and reign with Christ.

We don't speak much of it, because the Bible does not give any details but I sure am looking forward to it!
I must be saved, Oh Lord do whatever you have to do.

[Jim Stone]

And after that 1,000 years is over, he is loosed again out of his prison, for a season?
I have read and re-read this many times and truthfully do not understand it.
Will this start after the rapture? Or before? and the ones who are left, will they be with Jesus during the 1,000 years?
I am really trying to explain this to my grandson also.
Thank you , roma

It is the duration of the reign of Christ in His Kingdom when satan was defeated and the gospel is going forth to the nations, Satan unable to prevent the nations from being evangelized. He is bound from doing so by Christ.

[SisEdith]

It is the duration of the reign of Christ in His Kingdom when satan was defeated and the gospel is going forth to the nations, Satan unable to prevent the nations from being evangelized. He is bound from doing so by Christ.

Satan reigns in the earth right now, this is his kingdom. We are not living in the 1000 years yet, satan is still loose to kill and to destroy Gods people. The saints have not withstood the the mark of the beast yet verse 4.
And the Rapture has not taken place yet verses 5,6

The Gog and Magog war has not happened yet. The Antichrist and the false prophet have not been cast into the lake of fire yet which happens before satan is cast there forever verse 10.

And the Great White throne Jugement has not happened yet either.

Revelation 20 is the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on Earth. Jesus Christ does not reign yet, human Government is set up here.

[Mustard Seed]

So the saints will have to withstand the mark of the beast? I always understood that the rapture would take place before that point, and those who would withstand it were those who were not saved by that time, but knew enough of God and had enough love for Him to deny the mark, but the Church would be out of the way before then.

[SisEdith]

So the saints will have to withstand the mark of the beast? I always understood that the rapture would take place before that point, and those who would withstand it were those who were not saved by that time, but knew enough of God and had enough love for Him to deny the mark, but the Church would be out of the way before then.
I do not believe that anyone will be saved after the Rapture of the Church accept the 144, ooo.oo Jews.

If they can't live for God now, how are they going to live for God once the Holy Ghost and the Church is gone?

I do believe we are very close to having to have to say NO, to an ecconomic system that requires you to take somesort of mark or chip in your body. It's already developed and ready to be deployed.
I believe the saints will have to endure and be persecuted but I do not believe we will be here for the full reign of Antichrist. We will escape Gods wrath, but I can not see where we will be able to escape "some" of the Antichrist persecution of the Church. It's already starting.
The USA has already turned it's back of Jesus Christ. Judement?? how far off can it be? Fag marriages?? Accepted abominations before God? Books in the school library which promote this sort of behavior?? Check out the book King & King. A first grader brought it home from SCHOOL. Her parents were flabergasterd. This was in yesterdays news in NC.

[BrotherBallard]

ActsIsAlive,

Please provide scripture for the below statement you just made.

I once believed the exact same way you just stated, I know where you are coming from, but I can not find where there are 2 different "raptures," for lack of a better word, anywhere in the scripture. I was taught this end time doctrine since 1978. Only in recent history has my mindset or way of thinking been challenged.

Please note, I'm asking out of respect and not to demean you in any way, I too am just coming around in the study of eschatology. I am most definitely not an authority on the end time.

In His Name!!!

I do not believe that anyone will be saved after the Rapture of the Church accept the 144, ooo.oo Jews.

If they can't live for God now, how are they going to live for God once the Holy Ghost and the Church is gone?

[Mustard Seed]

Thanks for the food for thought, Acts. Of course, the only reliable source on this is the Bible, and I am certainly going to take some time tonight and re-read those passages.

This is how my pastor teaches it (in a nutshell): the saints will be raptured before the final seven years of tribulation begin, the mark of the beast will be made mandatory after that, and there will be those (though few) who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will be put to death and will be saved. Not saved in the terms of the saints, where they won't reign with Christ, but God will have a place for them on the New Earth. Of course, I am sure I am missing some finer details in my nutshell explanation of my understanding of it.

Consider what it would take for the mark of the beast to become mandatory. Yes, the technology exists now, and there are people taking the chip in their body now, such as a family from Florida that took it live on the Today show (the family is referred to as the Chipsons by the media.) But we are still living in a society where there are still people who refuse to get credit cards or debit cards, and even some who live just on cash alone. We are also still living in a society where debit cards and credit cards are not universally accepted wherever you go, though I see that is now becoming less of a problem, as more and more places that didn't take them are now taking them. Something so catastrophic would have to occur in this society and in this world for the goverment to suddenly make this thing mandatory and for masses and masses of people to line up and accept it, when there are still quite a few people who don't accept credit cards and debit cards.

So what environment are we living in now, I ask myself. We are living in a world where governments stage terrorist attacks and blame their fictional enemies and use that against the population to scare them into surrendering their civil rights. We are living in a society that allowed the Patriot Act to come into place that enables the government to search and seize your banking and electronic records without having to inform you or anybody else for that matter. We are living in a society where Christians and homeschoolers are considered to be hate groups and suspected terrorists. We are living in a society where if you are found to be a terrorists, the government can have you executed (signed into law by Clinton back in 1996.)

9-11 was a major step in the New World Order to gain control of people, and did you notice that the president and the government was really trying to push for a universal ID card? That is certainly a precursor to the mark of the beast, forcing everybody to have a universal ID card to even operate in this country or buy and sell. But 9-11 failed to allow the government to get the control they wanted at that point, so a worse and far catastrophic terrorist attack will be orchestrated by the Feds and the government in an effort to take away liberties.

I may be stepping out on a limb here, but do you recall within days of 9-11 what was said to be a likely target? Los Angeles, with a nuclear weapon. What is not so widely publicized is that a nuclear weapon was supposed to be used in lower Manhattan, but they couldn't pull it off. That attack will come in the future, and I personally believe it will be the event in time that destroys the world with fire, as the terrorist attack against Los Angeles will have catastrophic consequences. But before that there will be other terrorist attacks as planned and orchestrated by the New World Order and governments hoping to forge that New World Order.

One such global event, I believe, will be the Rapture. I Thess. talks of the Rapture having world wide consequences, causing the world to travail as a woman in labor. II Thess. talks of the Antichrist and how he will gain full power after the Church is out of the way. I do not believe the Mark of the Beast is going to become mandatory until the Church is gone. In that day, in the Great Day of the Lord, I believe that will be called either a terrorist attack or perhaps an alien invasion will be orchestrated. I have actually heard this taught in church, and I personally know the government has experimental craft that is often mistaken for UFOs. All they would need to do is send out several of these experimental craft and call it an alien invasion to explain the disappearance of millions of people world wide. Of course, however the media and the governement handle the situation, the fact remains that will be such a terrible day for the world that the people left behind will be so afraid and so in fear of what may come and snatch them away in an instant that billions will suddenly lay down their civil rights and take the mark of the beast. I have no doubt it will be presented as a way for people to be tracked by their loving and caring governement in the event they disappear.

I personally don't plan on taking the Mark of the Beast nor do I plan on hanging around when they make it mandatory to have it. I've been baptized in the Name of Jesus, and I have the blood of the Lamb on my heart and his Spirit in my soul and I plan on getting out of here on the Day of the Lord. I do not think God will want his Christians to have to refuse the Mark of the Beast, only to be found to be terrorists by their governement and put to death. And that is what will happen to who refuses the mark.

I am curious to know, Acts, what world event do you think will take place while the Church is still here that will cause the government to enforce the Mark of the Beast on everybody?

[SisEdith]

ActsIsAlive,

Please provide scripture for the below statement you just made.

I once believed the exact same way you just stated, I know where you are coming from, but I can not find where there are 2 different "raptures," for lack of a better word, anywhere in the scripture. I was taught this end time doctrine since 1978. Only in recent history has my mindset or way of thinking been challenged.

Please note, I'm asking out of respect and not to demean you in any way, I too am just coming around in the study of eschatology. I am most definitely not an authority on the end time.

In His Name!!!
Zec 12, 13, 14 speaks of the second coming and the salvation of those Jews who accept him at his coming.
Daniel 9 God tells us that the tribulation is for the Jews.

The rapture is for the Body of Christ which we will be caught UP into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air. He will not desend to earth at that time. At the second coming he will set his feet on the Mount of Olives and it will split in two.

[BrotherBallard]

ActIsAlive,

I do not have all the answers, but here is a link that goes into a small segment of Post-Tribulation:

http://mikeblume.com/tribul1.htm (http://mikeblume.com/tribul1.htm)

Remember, this isn’t a salvation issue, this is a disagreement amongst Apostolics in general, and disagreements that have great friends disagreeing on both sides of the issue, but in the end are still great fiends.

I personally do not believe in the 2 rapture theory anymore, it’s too hard to swallow when you read through the Bible.

I apologize that I can not accurately explain my position since I’m just embarking on this study, I do though feel that Post-Tribulation is the accurate stance. Let me clarify something even though I feel this way, doesn’t negate the fact that the King of the universe, Jesus Christ can come when He wants to! I’m a child of His and I’m here to win souls regardless of the Pre or Post trib stance.

As Bro. Booker states, “whether it’s pre-trib or post-trib, I’m pan-trib. However it pan’s out I want to be ready for His coming.”

Below is a link to a portion of what is being discussed. I too am trying to study out the Pre and Post tribulation studies; I copied and posted the response below the link:

http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/post/q3.htm

Good question! Does it really matter? Of course, anything in the Bible is worthy of our attention, but what are the practical differences between the positions? I began studying the Post- position because Pre-Tribulationism is so prevalent and so easily accepted as gospel truth yet I just did not see it Biblically. At first I was studying both positions, but after I started leaning towards the Post- position I quit reading anything which was Post- and would only read Pre-Trib authors and the Bible. I read and listened to the best Pre-Trib scholars I could find but found their position thoroughly unconvincing. I wanted to know why everyone believed this position when I could find so little Biblical support for it. Jesus own disciples asked him when he was coming back and his answer was "after the tribulation" (Matt. 24:3; 29-31). To me this was very clear. It seems that he told them this for a reason. I believe he wanted us to be prepared.

I guess the biggest worry I have about Pre-Tribulationism is this: Most of what I have heard preached on Pre-Trib (not by theologians, but on the popular level) is stuff like, "God wouldn't do that to us" or "God's not a wife-beater" and the simple fact that Pre-Tribulationists confuse the Tribulation with the wrath of God. The point is that when the Tribulation is here many people who have been taught Pre-Trib will feel like "God must not love me." We have no concept of persecution in North America in the twentieth century. This is going to be the worst time ever (Matt. 24:21). On the back of my book I have this statement:

Christians have suffered persecution since the church began. History shows that when the church was regularly being persecuted they were able to endure, but when persecution let off for a good period of time and then began again, every time without fail, multitudes would renounce their faith in Christ. If we are going to go through this time period, then it is of utmost importance that we are psychologically ready for it. There is no excuse for this to take us by surprise. Jesus said, "Behold, I have told you in advance" (Matt. 24:25).

In His Name!!!

[SisEdith]

I am curious to know, Acts, what world event do you think will take place while the Church is still here that will cause the government to enforce the Mark of the Beast on everybody?[/QUOTE]


I am aware of all the things you speak of. I also know that the USA is leading the way into the NWO.

I believe an all out attack on the US will cause everyone to shout "YOU MUST DO SOMETHING" this will be the end of our liberty and as it is right now; there is not much left.

I believe it's the 6th Trumpet War of Revelation that will bring rise to the Antichrist. I think most people will think that the 6th trumpet war is Armegeddon when in fact it's not at all.

I know that the EU is the revived Holy Roman Empire.

We are seeing the fufillment of endtime prophesies in our lifetime! This is soooooo exciting to me. I believe that the Bible tells us that we were born for such a day as this!!

[SisEdith]

[QUOTE=BrotherBallard]ActIsAlive,

I do not have all the answers, but here is a link that goes into a small segment of Post-Tribulation:

http://mikeblume.com/tribul1.htm (http://mikeblume.com/tribul1.htm)

Remember, this isn’t a salvation issue, this is a disagreement amongst Apostolics in general, and disagreements that have great friends disagreeing on both sides of the issue, but in the end are still great fiends.

I personally do not believe in the 2 rapture theory anymore, it’s too hard to swallow when you read through the Bible.endquote

I do not believe in 2 raptures either. There is only one and it's for the Bride of Christ.

Brother Ballard,
I understand where you are coming from. I was post-trib for a long time and got to the point where I didn't know which one was correct. I was a hard nose on this issue. Jesus set me straight when I saught him for an answer.

I do not feel that the "church" will go through the tribulation only because Jesus Christ showed me Daniel chapter nine one day when I cried out to him in confusion. Post-tribulation would mean that the church took the Jews place and we didn't. That is replacement theology and it's false. The tribulation is for them, not the church.

I know it's not a salvation issue but it's a Biblical question and the answers are there. I like you could not understand the pre-trib stance. I do know because of the replacement theology that goes with the post-tribulation.

[SisEdith]

[QUOTE=BrotherBallard]ActIsAlive,

I do not have all the answers, but here is a link that goes into a small segment of Post-Tribulation:

http://mikeblume.com/tribul1.htm (http://mikeblume.com/tribul1.htm)

Remember, this isn’t a salvation issue, this is a disagreement amongst Apostolics in general, and disagreements that have great friends disagreeing on both sides of the issue, but in the end are still great fiends.

I personally do not believe in the 2 rapture theory anymore, it’s too hard to swallow when you read through the Bible.endquote

I do not believe in 2 raptures either. There is only one and it's for the Bride of Christ.

Brother Ballard,
I understand where you are coming from. I was post-trib for a long time and got to the point where I didn't know which one was correct. I was a hard nose on this issue. Jesus set me straight when I saught him for an answer.

I do not feel that the "church" will go through the tribulation only because Jesus Christ showed me Daniel chapter nine one day when I cried out to him in confusion. Post-tribulation would mean that the church took the Jews place and we didn't. That is replacement theology and it's false. The tribulation is for them, not the church.

I know it's not a salvation issue but it's a Biblical question and the answers are there. I like you could not understand the pre-trib stance. I do know because of the replacement theology that goes with the post-tribulation.


I also do not believe for one moment that the Tribulation has passed. I am sorry.

[RevDooley]

This is a very controversial subject. I agree with Bro. Ballard,; it is important that we remain friendly towards one another, even if our personal view finds some disagreement here (which is already evidenced).

One statement that has caught my eye is concerning America. My personal take on that is that we as a country are not going to matter much. There is precious little apocalyptic scripture that refers to us as a nation.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This seems to refer to Joseph's dream, indirectly. He saw a very similar thing prior to his rise to power.

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

So, we can cross reference this to show that we as a nation are going to shelter Israel and her seed. This includes the church.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

America has already done all of this. We, as a nation have protected the rights of Jew and Christian alike. That is why God has blessed this great country. However, as we decline morally, so shall His protective hand begin to leave us. This will be disturbing to many, but I believe it is already clearly laid out in Revelation.
We would like to think that we will continue until His eminent return. Scripture doesn't seem to bear this out. I don't think we should just stick our heads in the sand and hide. We are in danger of doing just that since we are so comfortable.
Remember the ten virgins:

Matt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

We need to make sure that we are ready. This is a solemn warning to the church. The virgins represent those who have not sullied themselves with the world. They have kept themselves pure for His return. Yet, half of them were lazy. They were lost because they didn't want to send time putting oil in their lamps, which I believe is prayer.
Jesus said "When ye pray..." (Matt 6:7, Mark 11:24, Luke 11:2). He didn't say "if ye pray", but "when ye pray". God expects us to pray. How else will you develop a real relationship with Him?
I like this verse:
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:... It shows that God was interested in Adam and Eve enough that He showed up to talk to them. If He is going to show up, how can we NOT show up to pray? We must pray so that we don't hear those fateful words "Verily I say unto you, I know you not".

[SisEdith]

This is a very controversial subject. I agree with Bro. Ballard,; it is important that we remain friendly towards one another, even if our personal view finds some disagreement here (which is already evidenced).

One statement that has caught my eye is concerning America. My personal take on that is that we as a country are not going to matter much. There is precious little apocalyptic scripture that refers to us as a nation.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This seems to refer to Joseph's dream, indirectly. He saw a very similar thing prior to his rise to power.

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

So, we can cross reference this to show that we as a nation are going to shelter Israel and her seed. This includes the church.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

America has already done all of this. We, as a nation have protected the rights of Jew and Christian alike. That is why God has blessed this great country. However, as we decline morally, so shall His protective hand begin to leave us. This will be disturbing to many, but I believe it is already clearly laid out in Revelation.
We would like to think that we will continue until His eminent return. Scripture doesn't seem to bear this out. I don't think we should just stick our heads in the sand and hide. We are in danger of doing just that since we are so comfortable.
Remember the ten virgins:

Matt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

We need to make sure that we are ready. This is a solemn warning to the church. The virgins represent those who have not sullied themselves with the world. They have kept themselves pure for His return. Yet, half of them were lazy. They were lost because they didn't want to send time putting oil in their lamps, which I believe is prayer.
Jesus said "When ye pray..." (Matt 6:7, Mark 11:24, Luke 11:2). He didn't say "if ye pray", but "when ye pray". God expects us to pray. How else will you develop a real relationship with Him?
I like this verse:
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:... It shows that God was interested in Adam and Eve enough that He showed up to talk to them. If He is going to show up, how can we NOT show up to pray? We must pray so that we don't hear those fateful words "Verily I say unto you, I know you not".


I also agree in that we need to pray. We need to be prayed up and always walking in and full of the Holy Ghost which I think the oil represents.

Praise the Lord. Jesus will be coming soon! I think America has a role in the creation of the NWO, no doubt in my mind.
The Bible tells us that ALL Nations will come against Israel. Our Government has already sold out Israel by agreeing to a Palistinian State. If we harbor her, that's great! But I do not see where we wille escape judgment seeing this moral decline and utter turn from the Lord.

[SisEdith]

>>America has already done all of this. We, as a nation have protected the rights of Jew and Christian alike. That is why God has blessed this great country. However, as we decline morally, so shall His protective hand begin to leave us. This will be disturbing to many, but I believe it is already clearly laid out in Revelation.endquote

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37656

America is not doing everything it should be doing as far as Israel is concerned. It is running scared of Arabs!!

[RevDooley]

America is not doing everything it should be doing as far as Israel is concerned. It is running scared of Arabs!!

I don't believe that we as a nation are "running scared" of anything. The situation with the Arab/Israeli problem is very complex. This has tied the hands of many of our presidents.

We can't continue to shield Israel if the word of God is to be fulfilled. It is already laid out in Revelation. My concern is that the church not become lazy in America.

We have it so good compared to other countries. We drive nice cars, live in nice homes. We have running water, electricity, gas. We have so much to be thankful for and yet, we tend to get attitudes about these things as if we actually own them. We don't own a thing. It all belongs to God. We are just using them in this life.

How often do we allow our self-righteous attitudes to interfere with what God wants to do in our midst? Doesn't this stem from things? After all, if we have a lot of "things", we tend to think that we are being blessed by God. Last time I checked, the devil is the prince of the power of the air. That means he is in control of things of this world, that includes the monetary system. If that is the case, owning things can actually be bondage. And we think we are blessed so we have the right to look down our pentecostal noses at others who are less fortunate. (This is not being directed at anyone in particular. It is just an attitude that I have dealt with in my own life and see so much of in the church.)

People really need to wake up in America and see what is happening to their so called "spirituality". We don't need a "reality check", we need a "spirituality check". We had better wake up and pray like never before so that God's hand will be stayed towards us as a nation.

[SisEdith]

I don't believe that we as a nation are "running scared" of anything. The situation with the Arab/Israeli problem is very complex. This has tied the hands of many of our presidents.

We can't continue to shield Israel if the word of God is to be fulfilled. It is already laid out in Revelation. My concern is that the church not become lazy in America.

We have it so good compared to other countries. We drive nice cars, live in nice homes. We have running water, electricity, gas. We have so much to be thankful for and yet, we tend to get attitudes about these things as if we actually own them. We don't own a thing. It all belongs to God. We are just using them in this life.

How often do we allow our self-righteous attitudes to interfere with what God wants to do in our midst? Doesn't this stem from things? After all, if we have a lot of "things", we tend to think that we are being blessed by God. Last time I checked, the devil is the prince of the power of the air. That means he is in control of things of this world, that includes the monetary system. If that is the case, owning things can actually be bondage. And we think we are blessed so we have the right to look down our pentecostal noses at others who are less fortunate. (This is not being directed at anyone in particular. It is just an attitude that I have dealt with in my own life and see so much of in the church.)

People really need to wake up in America and see what is happening to their so called "spirituality". We don't need a "reality check", we need a "spirituality check". We had better wake up and pray like never before so that God's hand will be stayed towards us as a nation.
Exactly what I was trying to say to your previous post. The Bible tells us ALL nations will come against Israel Your previous post was saying that America would shield her. My point was that America is doing everything to betray her, not shield her. She can not shield her if Gods prophecies are to come forth. She can not flex her muscle either which is what I actually meant by running scarred. Not that she's scarred at all, but that it's allready worked out. It "looks like" she does not want to flex her muscle because she does not want the Arabs to withold oil or strike again at US targets. She does not want to "upset" them!!!!

If Gods hand is stayed towards this nation this would just delay prophecies of a one world government. I think the Antichrist will rise out of the rubble, one we are taken down he can easily rise to power to fix everything.

This is just my take on the situation.

[RevDooley]

Sister AIA, I have misread your post and if you have taken offense at my post, please forgive. I meant no offense. I believed that you had a different view and I was expressing what I had found in the Bible. It is nice to know that we are on the same page on this issue.

[SisEdith]

Sister AIA, I have misread your post and if you have taken offense at my post, please forgive. I meant no offense. I believed that you had a different view and I was expressing what I had found in the Bible. It is nice to know that we are on the same page on this issue.

Why would I have taken offense? Also glad to hear we are on the same page.
Lord Bless you!
AIA

[ddc101]

Wow we lost this thread for a while and its was so good.lv sis.c

[Charles Johnson]

Sister Edith,

Praise King Jesus. I read your comment about Replacement Theology. I am a Replacement Theologian, and I have been so for about four years now. Before that, I was deceived and taught the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine according to the heresy of Dispensationalism. I am now Post Trib and I would like you to consider Replacement Theology, for I can prove that the New Testament teaches it. Now maybe you are unaware of what Replacement Theology really teaches. Maybe you are so against Replacement Theology because you don't understand it. Here are my links to Replacement Theology as well as the Post Trib Rapture Truth.

Please open your mind then open your Bible. I believe that you will find the points in these studies very reasonable and backed by the New Testament Scriptures, the Apostles' Doctrine, our only source for absolute Truth.

Here are the links...

http://johnson.jesus-messiah.com/studies/replacement-theology.htm

http://johnson.jesus-messiah.com/studies/resurrection.htm

You will enjoy these studies of the Bible. Once you then see the scope of what Replacement Theology really is, I believe you will find it to be the only logical conclusion of the New Testament Scriptures concerning the Israel of God.

We can discuss this if you wish, either by e-mail or here on this message board. I can start a fresh thread for it if you want to.

As for the 1,000 years, it is future and it is literal. The thought that the Devil is bound today is error, in my opinion, otherwise what Devil have these Pentecostals been casting out all these years?

:shrug:

Agape in Christ Jesus the King of Israel (John 1:49),

Minister Charles A. Johnson III

Apostolic Minister of the Holy Blood

[mfblume]

I believe the thousand years is only signifying, or symbolic, as is most of Revelation since the very first verse says the message is "SIGNIFIED" in the book. That means symbolic.

And the thousand years are never mentioned anywhere else in the entire bible aside from this book. And Revelation is not a book from which we can derive doctrines, because it is not explicit teaching. There are too many enigmas in it that are not explained in the same book. And so in a book that shows Jesus as a lamb with seven horns (which horns are never explained), we cannot make a doctrine out of something in it that is not found in explicit teaching eslewhere in the bible where there is explicit teaching.

The only safe recourse is to realize that Revelation is only visions of what is cleary and explicitly taught elsewhere in the bible. If you cannot find thousand years in anywhere else in the bible, then realize it is symbolic of something that is already in the bible elsewhere.

Does this mean Revelation is not inspired of God nor is profitable for doctrine? Of course it does not mean that. Revelation is indeed inspired of God. But we must rightly divide the word. In other words, you cannot get a doctrine of God from Song of Solomon, for example, since that whole book is an allegory.

There are certain books that contain explicit doctrine.. The gospels, Acts and epistles. But not Revelation. Revelation is profitable for doctrine because that means IT IS INVOLVED IN DOCTRINE, but not in ascertaining doctrine.

For example, liberals go to Romans 10 to show that baptism is not part of salvation. However, Romans is not written to sinners with explicit instructions on how to get saved. It is written to people already saved who did not need all the details listed to them all over again when Paul references salvation. Acts is where we read of explicit detailed instructions on how to get saved. So it is rightly dividing the Word to go to Acts and not Romans in order to find out how to be saved.

Same with Revelation and doctrine. Revelation is too symbolic to derive doctrines from. Revelation symbolizes what the explicit teaching of prophecy reads in the parts of the bible where we can form doctrines.

Who among us would take soemthing out of Revelation that was not mentioned in the gospels or epistles, that concerns salvation, and make a doctrine out of it? We cannot make a doctrine of salvation from words that the apostles and Jesus did not explicitly teach as salvation doctrine. Same with any other doctrine.

Jesus already bound the devil because he said you cannot spoil the strongman until you first BIND HIM. And Col 2 says Jesus SPOILED the devil. taht means He first BOUND HIM. How many times does the devil have to be bound anyway?

And some say the devil is still causing sins and tempting people, so he cannot be bound. BUT THAT IS NOT WHY REVELATION SAID HE IS TO BE BOUND. He is BOUND for the distinct purpose of not deceiving the world to attack and destroy the church. The devil cannot do that today. Many nations protect the church still. But I believe ONE DAY HE WILL BE ALLOWED TO, and WILL deceive the nations so that not one nation tolerates the church, and then God wil destroy the sinners.

Revelation 20:3-9 KJV
(3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
(4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Notice that the deception in verse 3 is explained specifically in verse 8. Deception to the nations to gather them to battle against the church, which is the New Jerusalem, since the OLD Jerusalem was abandoned and destroyed.

Most who argue with my thoughts never notice that verse 8 explains the deception in verse 3. They think that satan's presence in crime and destruction and his devils that still must be cast out means he is not bound. That is the result of shoddy bible study. A true careful student of the word will note that he is ONLY BOUND IN REGARDS TO ONE SPECIFIC ISSUE -- DECEIVING THE NATIONS TO DESTROY AND NOT TOLERATE NEW JERUSALAM (which Heb 12:22 says is the church).

[apostle]

I will only give a little insight.

I see it like this.
When Jesus opened the graves, is when Satan was loosed.
The pit is not the lake of fire. Hell was cast into the lake of fire.
Talk about war in Heaven?

So when Jerusalem became habitation of devils, and held every foul spirit is when the graves were opened. From there they went to the lake of fire.
The spirits that were with Jesus came into the New Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. And the voices spoken through the apostles and others were the resurrected that were slain.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

We are with Christ now.
There was a thousand years before the cross, a short space, then a thousand years again.
There was 1260 days before the cross, a little season, a 1260 days after the cross.

in the midst of years is the gospel. In the midst of years God poured out his wrath. In the midst of years God remembered mercy.

Hab 3:2 O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

What do you think Prince is, and what was he cast out of?

Joh 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

[Charles Johnson]

Brother Blume,

Praise the Lord Jesus.

History is not on your side as far as the devil being bound from deceiving the nations since Calvary to destroy the Church. Israel as a nation tried to destroy the Church. Why was not the devil bound from deceiving that nation to destroy the Church?

Then Rome as an empire/nation tried to destroy the Church. This is especially true during the persecutions under Nero and his next few successors. Why was not the devil bound from deceiving that nation to destroy the Church?

Many nations have tried to destroy the Church. Many Islamic fundamentalist nations are trying to destroy the Church today. Several communist nations have tried to destroy the Church in recent times. Why was not the devil bound from deceiving those nations to destroy the Church?

This notion of yours, with all due respect, does not make any sense when one looks at the history of persecution against the Church of Jesus. You claim that the devil is bound from deceiving the nations to try and destroy the Church, and yet during the entire Church age the devil has deceived nations to try and destroy the Church.

I know you are amillennial and all, and I will respect you in this discussion. Your conclusions as it concerns the devil being 'bound' here, don't make sense. I cannot accept that the devil is bound and has been bound for the entire Church age from deceiving the nations to try and destroy the Church, when the history and the Bible is filled with these 'national' persecutions.

Also brother Price asks a great questions here, 'how can Satan be bound in one sense and not bound in another sense,' according to your teaching? Either he is bound or he is not bound, right?

Help our understanding here...

[mfblume]

Brother Blume,

Praise the Lord Jesus.

History is not on your side as far as the devil being bound from deceiving the nations since Calvary to destroy the Church. Israel as a nation tried to destroy the Church. Why was not the devil bound from deceiving that nation to destroy the Church?

Praise God, brother!

Brother, the prophecy reads that the ENTIRE WORLD will come against New Jerusalem, not a little outfit here and there every now and then. Let's be scriptural.

Then Rome as an empire/nation tried to destroy the Church. This is especially true during the persecutions under Nero and his next few successors. Why was not the devil bound from deceiving that nation to destroy the Church?

The entire world is the issue, brother. And the devil was BOUND from accomplishing that successfully. That is the whole point. The devil has always tried, but IS BOUND

So, brother, please explain to me how Jesus could spoil the devil and that cannot be done unless he is first bound? Let's not avoid each others' points.

Many nations have tried to destroy the Church. Many Islamic fundamentalist nations are trying to destroy the Church today. Several communist nations have tried to destroy the Church in recent times. Why was not the devil bound from deceiving those nations to destroy the Church?

Read above.

This notion of yours, with all due respect, does not make any sense when one looks at the history of persecution against the Church of Jesus. You claim that the devil is bound from deceiving the nations to try and destroy the Church, and yet during the entire Church age the devil has deceived nations to try and destroy the Church.

Gog and Magog from across the whole earth???

Revelation 20:8 KJV
(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


I know you are amillennial and all, and I will respect you in this

No I am not. Amillennialism means no millennium. Don't believe Mr Reckart's words about me. He has purposely distorted my beliefs. If the church age is the millennium, then how can I be amillennial?

discussion. Your conclusions as it concerns the devil being 'bound' here, don't make sense. I cannot accept that the devil is bound and has been bound for the entire Church age from deceiving the nations to try and destroy the Church, when the history and the Bible is filled with these 'national' persecutions.

You miss the actual words of Revelation. Gog and Magog from across the entire earth.

Also brother Price asks a great questions here, 'how can Satan be bound in one sense and not bound in another sense,' according to your teaching? Either he is bound or he is not bound, right?

Haha. Wrong. Picture a dog. It is bound on a chain. Can it walk so far? Yes. So it is not bound from walking that far. Can it tear up the earth and bury bones within the radius of it's bondage? Yes. Same thing. Why would the devil be said to be bound in one specific area if he was bound for everything? Whey would John write of only one distinct area of bondage?


Hope that helps.

[apostle]

I believe the devil was bound in the garden when God put the same old serpents face to the dust.

I believe the devil was loosed from the earth at Jesus resurrection and put to the fire.

The devil is bound and cannot touch us, unless God gives him slack from the chain so he can try us and bring us closer to him, like Job.

Besides all that. The devil was only given a short space. two thousand years is not a short space. half an hour is though.