Spiritual Abuse and The UPCI (Not what you think)

[John Atkinson]

I'll be the first to agree that people can go into certain UPC churches and meet legalism. phariseeism, condemnation and all sorts of stuff.

They can also find the same thing in certain ALJC churches, PAW churches, whatever churches. Spiritual abuse is not limited to UPCI assemblies.

We at Apostolic Network Ministries are sick of UPCI bashing. There are dozens of websites out there that have nothing but bad things to say about the UPCI. We want to create a web site:

www.welovetheupc.com

What we want to put there is positive things about the UPC. There is alot of negative that we would like to offset. The truth of the matter is that there are tens of thousands serving God today as a a direct result of a UPC church being there, with a godly leadership that reached for them and worked with them, and taught them the precepts of God.

We want your input, and the input of anyone who has been blessed by the UPCI. I believe there are more people out there with something good to say about the upc than there are with something bad.

The people with a bad report aren't afraid to stand up and tell it. Whay not give the folks with a good report a place to STAND UP AND TELL IT!

Thoughts....suggestions?

[BroRutledge]

Amen bro John.
.
Let's tell the whole worlld that there are some wonderful people of God in the UPCI doing great exploits in the Name of Jesus and making a difference for eternity.

We are here for the GOOD OF THE CAUSE.

Blessings

Renrutledge

[ddc101]

Amen Brothers I got saved in a UPC church.Bro.E.W.Reeves was my first pastor and for all my life I will always consider him my pastor.lv sis.c

[nightwatchman]

I got the Holy Ghost in a u.p.c. home mission church in Spring Valley Calif.I thank GOD someone had a burden....

[BroRutledge]

I was filled with the Holy Ghost and baptized in the name of Jesus in a UPC Church in Arkansas. I also witnessed many miracles as the power of God moved in these Jesus Name One God Churches.

[BroDane]

I was a UPC then I got priviledges... (UPC= Under Priviledged Child) :ohyeah:

(No relation to THE UPC..hehehe)

[survivor4christ]

I was born again in a UPC church in LaPlace, LA. That same day I attended General Conference in New Orleans. It was by far the most memorable, awesome, incredible experience ever!

I will never forget the spirit in the LA Superdome...so powerful! People from all ethnicities and backgrounds in one accord glorifying God and speaking the oracles of God, just like the book of Acts!

People were coming up to me and asking me how long I had been saved, I told them two, three hours tops! We would rejoice at the wonderful works of God!

A seed was planted in me. I do not believe I would have received that seed anywhere else other than the United Pentecostal Church. I have attended a slew of Apostolic churches, and none is like UPC. NONE!

I love it!

Sis. Wenona

[Oldpreach]

I was baptized , married , and refilled with the Holy Ghost all in a church where the Pastor is in the UPC fellowship. He is still like a father to me. Closest thing here on earth to one i have ever had , since i never knew one. We all have to remember the truth of the matter ,and that is this: UPC is a fellowship of ministers. The various bodies locally are not part of a denomination...or , at least are not supposed to be. UPC bylaws may have holes in them , but there are many good men in it. We need to have respect for the men there on a one by one basis , regarding them as the scripture says. For , if they are called of God to be a true man of God and minister of God, then God insists on this.

[Oldpreach]

P.S. --- Sis. Wenona , you truly have an absolutely beautiful Son !!!!! You 2 make a great couple ! :)

[survivor4christ]

Yeah, he really thinks he is my husband...won't let me sleep alone. He compliments me all the time, he truly runs the show!

If, or when I remarry, boy, that guy is gonna have trouble!:)
I thank God for the UPC!

Love, Sis. Wenona

[foreverblessed]

UPCI, is all I have ever known. While I know that it has its fault and failures, show me an organization that doesn't. I still think it is the best. :p Might be just a tad prejudice though. :redcool:

[Augusta]

Thank you Bro. John for this thread. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church. On September 13, 1993, the glory of God fell on me in the third row of a small UPC church in smalltown Texas. I was baptized in Jesus name and my life has never been the same. I have visited many churches, but the UPC has got it going on. When I hear people who grew up in the truth bashing the UPC, I think - "how spoiled." Now I am not so new to this that I am naive about some of the problems, but the church is made of people and people are still flesh. There are always going to be problems. I am now Youth Pastor at that church and I would not trade my UPC church for anything.

[dllong]

I have read many disturbing accounts of spiritual abuse in Pentecostal (so-called) churches on the internet. Most of the accounts are from the members themselves. It vexed my soul. Then I realized these people could easily be exaggerating their many claims and I found myself beleiving everything they said. I had no idea if what they were saying was true or false. So why did I read them? I have no idea. So I quit. Then I put my head deeply back into the sand and pretended it doesn't exist.
(Note the sarcasm).

These are truly terrible days to be alive.

In Jesus,

Dave Long :cry:

[light]

Originally posted by dllong
I have read many disturbing accounts of spiritual abuse in Pentecostal (so-called) churches on the internet. Most of the accounts are from the members themselves. It vexed my soul. Then I realized these people could easily be exaggerating their many claims and I found myself beleiving everything they said. I had no idea if what they were saying was true or false. So why did I read them? I have no idea. So I quit. Then I put my head deeply back into the sand and pretended it doesn't exist.
(Note the sarcasm).

These are truly terrible days to be alive.

In Jesus,

Dave Long :cry:

There are dissatisfied people in every walk of life. In or out of the truth. We will never get away from that fact. Having said that it time we move on.

This is a good time to be alive and serving our Saviour. I wake up each morning thanking God for writing my name in the Lambs Book of life before the foundation of the world. Dave he cared so much that he planed his own death for mine and your salvation before he made this world. He then carried it out on the cross of Calvary. WHAT A FRIEND, WHAT A SAVIOUR.
Alway remember he knew and cared for you before he hung the moon.

[pastorb]

You know I am not UPC, but I am overjoyed to hear these testimonies. It's wonderful that people remember when they believed I thought I was the only one.

I was saved Sunday April 24, 1988 along with my wife. I watched her get baptized and then I was next while she was in one room tarrying with the sisters, I was in the other with the pastor and some brothers.

We were the first to get up during altar call and my wife, two babies 13 and 4 months walked down the isle hand in hand, choosing life more abundantly together and we have been married 18 wonderful years and God gave me the best woman in the world.

I'l put her picture up with mine in a little while

[drummerboy_dave]

It seems like an alright idea. I'd have no objection to it, but shouldn't it be the banner of Christ that we're all lifting up, not the banner of the UPC?

I also, was born again, inside a church, pastored by a UPC minister. That does not make me, UPC. I am however, a Jesus' name, apostolic, pentecostal.

I understand and appreciate the need for leadership, and I sincerely respect everyone, who takes on such responsibility. I'd like to go on the record, as one, who'd like to see the leadership of all the organizations do a better job of encouraging fellowship between the camps.

[BroRutledge]

Bro Drummerboy

We are lifting up the banner of Christ by looking at the positive side and giving glory to the Lord for the wonderful things that are happening in this organized effort to do a work for God.

In the midst of all the stones being throne, we are simply saying that it is not all bad. God is using the efforts of the UPC to save many people and we give God all the praise and Glory as we lift up the banner of Christ in standing for the good and declaring that those who seek to do harm by writing and saying terrible things about the people of God do not have the strong voice. They may be loud, but there is much evidence that declares beyond any shadow of doubt that God is using the UPCI and many other groups and independants to promote his cause.

I praise God for every independant group and every Apostolic organization in the world. The enemy who wants to destroy any one of us wants to get us all.

We are here to lift up the hands of all people who call on the name of the Lord in truth, and we stand against any atempt to destroy or defame any of the brothers and sisters or the systems that they have selected to work with.

There is a cause involved here, and it is time for some people to wake up and realize that the Apostolic people are in this together.

I have been in and out of the UPC all my life. I makes no difference to me what group an apostolic works with. I have never belonged to the UPCI, but I have carried license with the UPCI at various times for many years. Whether in or out I belong to God and fellowship all the true people of God that I meet.

If I wanted to be mean, I could write books on the bad things in orginizations and in independant Apostolics in general, but If I should decide to write a book it will be for the good of the cause and not an effort to destroy any part of it.

God has been good to me, and I have been blessed while serving as an independant pastor, ALJC Pastor, and UPCI pastor. It is all the same as far as I am concerned.

This is the work of God and when somebody is picking on my brothers and sisters they are fighting against the cause that I love with all my heart.

I believe we all need to pray for all the people of God and if there be any good...THINK ON THESE THINGS.

God bless.
BroRutledge

[Adoniyah]

You expressed my sentiments exactly, brother Atkinson.

I was born in a UPC (known as PAofJC in those days) Parsonage in 1940 during the midst of a hurricane. The place is Gum Point, Louisiana. It is now an ALJC church.

I received the Holy Ghost at age seven under a UPC tent preached by a red hot revivalist UPC preacher by the name of W. E. Gamblin. I was later baptized in a UPC church by a UPC preacher by the master of all Preachers, brother George Glass, Sr. in a UPC church pastored by C. G. Weeks who later became the Dist. Supt. of the Louisiana District.

I was married in a UPC church by a UPC preacher whose name was Buford Miller in Pascagoula, Miss. in 1964.

For many years an Elder in a great UPC Church.

I have preached in a great number of UPC Churches. I know many UPC preachers and thousands of UPC saints.

But, I am not UPC. I belong to the Lord.

I love and appreciate the UPC for the many things that they have given me, for the dedication that they have made to give the whole Gospel to the whole world.

I know that the devil hates the work of God which they, as an organization, have dedicated themselves to. I have an undying appreciation for that. Needless to say, I have poured much of my life and resources into their efforts in harmony to reach the Lord with the ONLY MESSAGE OF SALVATION.

[Apostolic Kitty]

Sis. Weona: Yeah, he really thinks he is my husband...won't let me sleep alone. He compliments me all the time, he truly runs the show!

My boy has a tendancy to be that way, too. When I look in the mirror sometimes and he catches me he'll just shake his head and say, "mom, I don't know why you're doing that. You're beautiful the way you are."

[bill]

The internet is filled with all kinds of lies regarding the UPCI. You know, I wonder if the internet was around in the first century, might there have been a "spiritual abuse" website about those who were followers of Anninias and Saphira? We need to continue to preach and teach the Truth even if it offends people.

[bishop1]

Apostolic Kitty,
Is it true that you are only 10 years old ?

Something Good about the UPC -- Lets See hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Oh Yes - altho I have never held a UPC Ministerial Card - I have been Blessed to preach Revivals, Youth camps, Camp-meetings, Seminars, Funerals, and Weddings in United Pentecostal Churches. I now consider the UPC District Supts. of Michigan, Ohio, Metro New York, North Dakota, South Carolina, North Carolina, Iowa, Maine, Alabama, Colarado, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mass/R.I., Mississipi, Canadian Plains, Central Canadian, British Columbia, & the Atlantic Provinces my personal friends.

My Dad was PCI {pre-UPC} I have given up my bed to Bro.Goss, Bro.Welsh, Bro.Gamlin, Bro.Webb, Bro.Morgan, Bro.A.D.Urshan, Bro.Ben Urshan,etc. and the list can go on.

My UPC mentors were Bro.V.Jordan, Bro.K.Reeves, Bro.F.Munsey, Bro.W.R.Starr, Bro.N.J.Bibbs, Bro T.Barnes, Bro.S.R.Hanby, & Bro.M.Stairs.

We had a month long revival in a UPC, 16 Holy Ghost filled, 22 Baptized in the Name of Jesus, AND The Sunday A.M. Attendance Doubled Each And Every Sunday That Month !

I could say more but I think that you get my drift by now.

[Apostolic Kitty]

Bishop,

Where do you get the idea that I am only 10 years old? Or, are you just being silly?

[Adoniyah]

Bishop1:

Do the names Hiram Holland, Matt Holland, Willie Holland mean anything to you?

[bishop1]

Adoniyah,
The Apostolic Preaching Holland Name goes on and on and on -
Willie, Jimmy Don, James, N.L.,Ralph, Larry, Ronnie, Stanley,
and thats jost some of the Holland Apostolic Preachers, Not ot mention all of the other preachers that have the Holland Blood. Lets not forget the LADY TALKERS/PREACHERS that have the Holland Blood, And the Holland Girls that married Apostolic Preachers. {K.H.Mendenhall, Keith Mendenhall,R.E.Davenport,Lee Davenport, J.Greer,B.Moore,D.Baker, J.Hyams, G.Blacksher, C.Walker, B.Holt, L.O'Donnell, C.Kleiman and others.

This APOSTOLIC Message did not start in
1901, 1914, or 1916.

IT STARTED ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST
AND IT HAS NEVER BEEN STOPPED !

GOD HAS ALLWAYS
AND WILL ALLWAYS
HAVE A VOICE

" HIS TRUTH MARCHES ON "

[Nathan]

No denomination is perfect. I disagree strongly with the UPCI's (current) stance on several issues, both practical and doctrinal, but I'm still glad it's here. God uses all churches in some way, and the UPCI is no exception.

We are nowhere near perfect, and yes, there IS a very dark, ugly side to the UPCI at times -- but there's a dark, ugly side to just about anything.

I hope that God continues to use the UPCI throughout the world, and that He will continue to guide its leaders and members into greater truth.

[foreverblessed]

Bishop,
Since you know so many older pioneers, do you know the late Herbert Bye or Allen Cayten?, and I know I didn't spell Bye's name right.

[Phyllis]

Good morning

I was baptised in Jesus Name in a UPC chruch and even though I did not fully understand any of the teaching at that time as I was young and it was all new to me I believe that God used that as part of bringing me into the full truth of Jesus name later on in life that I now knowand experience.I believe God will bless the Pastor that baptised me and tried to show me the truth I just was not ready at that time to follow Jesus but the seed was planted many years ago and now is coming to full bloom under a annointed and Godly Pastor that I have now .God bless

sister Phyllis

[bishop1]

Foreverblessed;

Sorry for the slow post But I have been plagued with computer hackers, virus', and two complete crashes in the last 10 days.

Now in answer to your questions:
Both are very well known, In fact Bro. & Sis. Byes always found a place of rest at the UPCI Church pastored by my dad in Crawfordsville, Indiana.
They also visited the Church that I pastored annually.
:bow:

[pastorb]

Nathan,

Depending on the organization, I do not consider them a bad or dark thing. Everybody has flaws. The key is to allow the organization to be a tool you can draw from and let God be your guide. No body has a lock on anything, but Jesus.

And I much rather stand with a brother headed in the right direction than to walk alone.

[foreverblessed]

Bro. Holland,

I asked my sister, and was filled in on your family history in Indiana. I know a lot of your family members.

God bless!

[Adoniyah]

Brother Holland:

My father and Brother Hiram Hllland, brother of Matt Holland were best of friends until his death in an auto accident in the early 1950s. Brother Hiram Holland was a mighty man of God. I love to tell the story of Brother Hiram and the mule.

Many years ago, when I was quite young, Judy Holland, sister of Willie, and I, contemplated our future. I have not seen her for many years, but I remember how lovely she was, a great christian lady.

I know many of the Holland family members. I have the highest regard for them, as did my father.

As you stated, though I do not find everything in the UPC completely perfect, I praise God for the great work for his kingdom that they are doing around the world.

[dabody7]

Although, I have witnessed the shortcomings of the UPCI but I do not feel that the UPCI as a whole is to blame. There are always going to be people who will fall away from the faith but that is based on your relationship with God. I love UPCI and do believe that we are moving in the right direction under Ken Haney. There are issues that have been shaped by man over the years and I do have difficulty agreeing with their standpoint. I do respect their standpoint though. I will always turn to the Bible first for any understanding on such issues and follow my pastor as he follows Christ. UPCI is one of the few organizations that have had the truth revealed to them through much prayer and seeking. Thank God for that. I will continue to pray for blessing and annointing for the UPCI to continue the ministry set forth by Jesus on the day of Pentecost.

[jhlent]

Just curious, if many still feel the same way….??

I have seen some on this forum that has had not 1 good thing positive to say for the UPCi, even though they hold lic. In it…. What a great witness….

[John Atkinson]

I still like 'em. Don't want license with 'em, but I still like 'em!

[jwharvell]

I go to an ALJC church but I have nothing but good to say about my UPCI brethren. I agree somethings in every organization could use some tweeking. You know why IT HAS PEOPLE IN IT! :)

[YouProllyKnowMe]

I love the UPC! I think it is the best oneness organization there is. I hope everyone feels the same about the organization they are part of!
My pet peeve is people running down the UPC with a membership card in their wallets. If it is bad...get out! But to be running it down while you are a member....you are talking about yourself!! I do not trust people that do that...(this applies also to people that run down their places of employment..it is unethical and do not trust people that do so). Wow....I think I have found my soapbox, LOL!
I came to God in a UPC church in Herndon, Virginia. I was a kid on the Sunday School bus, got the Holy Ghost when I was 13, the only one in my family that went to church. I was there until I moved away after high school. Spiritual abuse?...oh, I could write a book on it. But what would be the point? It wasn't the organization that mistreated me...and God didn't mistreat me..and by His grace I am still here living for HIM, with too many blessings to count! :banana: I am still in a UPC church....across the country in the Texico District now (the greatest district by the way :D hope you all feel that way about your districts, too...if not...move! LOL ) God has given me an awesome life! I am excited about the future...I think the UPC has God-given leadership...and I am looking for and expecting GREAT THINGS!!!

Wow..and I didn't even know I had a soapbox...LOL!!! Thank you for this thread. All the UPC bashing I have seen on message boards have been disheartening.

God Bless!
Debby

[Christian Woman]

I think the UPC is great and i have great respect for many of the leaders.

I was baptized and filled with HG in my UPC church 20 years ago. We had visited 5 years before and felt God like never before. We LOVED the music also and still do. Nobody has it like the UPC!!! We also visited a Valentines Banquet and i was nervous around all these 'really religious people' :)

Between our first visit and getting saved we would preach to everybody about how you could feel God down at that church. Sometimes we would be slobbering drunk in a nightclub and telling our friends about that church and preach to them :) We didn't even know hardly what we were talking about except I remember telling someone you got to be baptized in JESUS Name!

We would have serious talks at home with friends and tell them 'when we decide to get saved, we know where we're going, we felt God there!'

We were both raised in different donominations and had never felt the HG before. Then in 1983 we had a very close friend whos family we are very close with was killed in motor cycle accident. He was 21 and was missing for about a week before they found him in the tall grass beside the road.

His sister was one of my best friends and she's the one who invited us to her church and V Banquet 5 years before!

We got saved shortly after the funeral Bro Baxter preached. There were a bunch of us that got saved from the death of that young man.

yep i love the upc!

[itsajagain]

If it wasnt for UPC church members in Georgia sharing Jesus... teaching me about the Holy Ghost... listening as I was filled with His Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues... organising my baptism... and UPC missionaries in Australia I sure wouldnt be baptised in Jesus name... I know their support and encouragement in those early months is all that kept me going... the willingness of the UPC people to reach out and help me start on my journey with Jesus is something I will hold dear to my heart...

You know it is like sacking a whole football team because one person drops the ball... individuals are what make up a church... people = fallibility... individuals means also that each is responsible for thier own thing...

I for one thank the Lord for UPC...

AJ

[ReneeP]

[QUOTE=Adoniyah]

I was born in a UPC (known as PAofJC in those days)

Pa of JC STILL exists!

I also was PAJC but now they are far and few
So I now attend a UPC church and LOVE IT!

[BroRutledge]

If it wasnt for UPC church members in Georgia sharing Jesus... teaching me about the Holy Ghost... listening as I was filled with His Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues... organising my baptism... and UPC missionaries in Australia I sure wouldnt be baptised in Jesus name... I know their support and encouragement in those early months is all that kept me going... the willingness of the UPC people to reach out and help me start on my journey with Jesus is something I will hold dear to my heart...

You know it is like sacking a whole football team because one person drops the ball... individuals are what make up a church... people = fallibility... individuals means also that each is responsible for thier own thing...

I for one thank the Lord for UPC...

AJ
This is the sister AJ who will be joining us again in a few days.
Thanks to all of you who are helping us to help sis AJ get back online.

God bless,
BroRutledge

[BroRutledge]

I have only good things to say about the United Pentecostal Church. If I wanted to I could easily focus on those moments when I didn't like certain things, but the good FAR outweighs the bad. I also love the ALJC and many other great Apostolic organizations. Some of the finest people I know on the face of the earth also attend independant works that are not connected to any particular organizations.

Regardless of organizational ties or non organizational preferences, there is only one group that is going to make it. THE REDEEMED.

I want to be in that number that no man can number and enjoy eternity with my brothers and sisters forever.

During my ministry I have carried liscense with the UPCI for several years and also the ALJC for several years. I gave up my license to pastor a work in louisiana for a few years because the older minister that had pioneered the Church and raised it up for almost 50 years before I went there had taught them that they should never be part of an organization. I don't know why he felt that way, but there were about three hundred members there who did not believe in UPC ALJC or any other organization.

God blessed us in that work, and many people found God. During the period of time while we were there the Lord helped the congregation to adjust to accepting UPC brothers and sisters as good people to fellowship. Some of them didn't know where to draw the lines because bro Hemphill had felt for years that they should not be in an organization, but yet he accepted them and worked with the organizations. The Lord used me to help them to come to a greater appreciation for all the people of God. The Church has grown and is doing very well today.

Bro Carl Shurte succeeded me as pastor there and has done a tremendous job of taking them forward. Here is a link to the Church there in West Monroe, LA where we were mightily blessed, and I will never forget those wonderful days.

http://www.livingwayapostolic.org/

Here is a recording of the founder of the Church, bro W. T. Hemphill. Bro Hemphill is the father of Joel Hemphill. You may have heard of the singing Hemphills. Joel wrote the song..."HE'S STILL WORKING ON ME" and many other wonderful songs while I was there. In fact I was the first person to hear that song as bro Joel took the words out of his shirt pocket and wanted to get my opinion before he finished the song. Candy Hemphill recorded that beautiful song "CONSIDER THE LILLIES" While we were there. I conducted the wedding for Joey Hemphill, taught Trent Hemphill piano lessons, and conducted bro W. T. Hemphill's funeral while there. Howard and Vestel Goodman came and formed a trio with me for several songs at the service and afterward I sat with them for several hours talking about our precious truth, and there were many details that I may share later on another thread. There are so many beautiful memories and things we could discuss that it would take several books just to get started.

Bro W. T. Hemphill was never part of any organization, but was accepted by the UPC ALJC and many others as highly respected minister of the Gospel in good standing. He was loved by all, and even though he felt that organization was not the way to go, he loved the people of all the Apostolic organizations as well as the independants and showed only kindness and appreciation to all.

At his funeral there were thousands and I mean thousands of people from all over the world walking by his remains. We kept his body at the Church for a couple of days while several thousand came to show their love and appreciation to this man of God with tears in their eyes. Often during that time long lines of people would break into praise and worship and hundreds of them were ministers and missionaries from many organizations who came to God under the ministry of W. T. Hemphill.

Here is bro W. T. Hemphill 87 years young with a short testimony that he gave shortly before he passed away. He was standing next to me as I held the mic and died a few days later.

http://www.acts238.org/wthemphill.m3u

God bless
BroRutledge

[TodayAGiftFrGod]

OK... So, I too was born into and grew up in the UPC . . .

Some of the wonderful ministers in my life who grounded me were:

Bro. Donald Atkinson
Bro. Wesley Ates
Bro. Jerry Ensey
Bro. Anthony Mansfield
Bro. Greg Holley

There have been others since, but those were the ones I knew during my establishing years...All except Bro. Holley were pastoring in Arkansas when I met them. Bro. Holley preached a couple of revivals and probably preached the revival message that really set my feet in concrete when I was going through those teenage years and was getting mixed up with the wrong crowd.

I thank God for those ministers and the foundation they instilled into me of the marvelous life of Christianity....

[milady]

I am Apostolic but I do not attend a UPC church so I don't know much about the UPC except for it stands for the truth,and that is all that matters.
Yes,we need a page that tells of the good things of the UPC.
I do not like it when I see people bashing the UPC or other Jesus name oneness churches.

[Janice Alvear]

As I good the and the bad I thought of this little story:






I once read a story about a king and his kingdom. The king called in two servants. He told the first servant, "I want you to go throughout the kingdom and gather weeds of all different varieties and bring them back to me." Then the king told the other servant, "I want you to go around the kingdom and gather flowers of all different kinds and bring them back to me." He told them that they each had one week, and then the two servants went out. The first servant came back after a week with armfuls of all different kinds of weeds. He said, "I never knew there were so many weeds. I am convinced that ameall we have in this kingdom is weeds."
Soon the other servant returned and said, "Look at all these flowers. I didn't realize we had so many flowers. We have flowers of every variety imaginable. The way I see it, all we have in this kingdom is flowers." One servant saw only weeds; the other one saw only flowers. Why was that? That was what they were looking for. The man who was looking for weeds found weeds, and the man who was looking for flowers found flowers.
Likewise, if you look for negative things, that is what you are going to see. On the other hand, if you look for positive things and look to help others, you will be lifted. You find what you look for. God is faithful to His people. If you seek Him for help and divine direction, He will give you what you need.



So it is with all churches much is in the way we look at things. I am not UPC but I have many precius friends that are. I would never join the UPC because I have a different type burden and vision for the foreign field...but that doesn't mean they are wrong juur outlooks and burden is different. I have worked all my life toward the work here being a Brazilian work and not being governed by Americans that can come and sell their churches.
The UPC has done great things for God. Of course their may be a dark side there usually is to all man made organizations. BUT most or all other groups are just the same independents included...
Yes there are abusive UPC churches but there are abusive independent churches...the most abusive place I ever visited in my life was NOT a UPC church...so it wrong to use the general term the UPC is abusive.
People get abusive usually as power goes to their heads and they decide they are God's main mouthpeice with some revelation and what they really want is their own little (big) kingdom that revolves around their revelations. They put on a show of humility that decieves the simple but they are full of themselves. They scare the simple, turn them into slaves tell tell the people they are God's chosen and to speak against them would bring eternal damnation on them....A real man of God is a servant. He is kind even when he has to correct he does not transmit ill will or belittle people. In fact we have been studying on this in our Bible studies the last few weeks. Well so much for that...

[Anvilfire]

In my life time I found there is good and bad in everything except Jesus.I recieved the holyhost in an upc church and I attend a upc church .
But within the upc there are thing I don't care for. I have not been able to find other apostolic people to find differences between them or the upc to make a judgement.
I'll say this people that believe in oneness and the acts 2:28 message
and live a clean holiness lifestyle are people I can fellowship with. I would love to meet other apostolic people but the only churches in my area are upc :shrug:
will I leave my church no,but will I invite others over for bbq you bet:yeah:

[BrotherBallard]

Bro. Atkinson,

I don't know how I missed this thread, but it is definitely a needed one. Sis. Alvear brought out very good points in her reply.

From a personal standpoint, I've been very abused by a UPC Church, but if that is what I focused on, I wouldn't be here today. I received the Holy Ghost in 1978 in a UPC Church; the Pastor was Brother L.D. Fletcher in Springfield, MO. I have nothing but good memories of Bro. Fletcher and the Church I came out of! I thank God for allowing me to be a part of the work in Springfield. Some of the Men of God that I esteem very highly are UPC licensed ministers!

Like Sis. Alvear stated in the above story, let's focus on the Flowers and not the Weeds!

In His Name!!!



Yes there are abusive UPC churches but there are abusive independent churches...the most abusive place I ever visited in my life was NOT a UPC church...so it wrong to use the general term the UPC is abusive.
People get abusive usually as power goes to their heads and they decide they are God's main mouthpeice with some revelation and what they really want is their own little (big) kingdom that revolves around their revelations. They put on a show of humility that decieves the simple but they are full of themselves. They scare the simple, turn them into slaves tell tell the people they are God's chosen and to speak against them would bring eternal damnation on them....A real man of God is a servant. He is kind even when he has to correct he does not transmit ill will or belittle people. In fact we have been studying on this in our Bible studies the last few weeks. Well so much for that...

[BlessedinHim]

I've been UPC for 14 or so years. I'm still in it. It must be good. I'll have to agree that some individual churches in UPC may give a bad name to the whole. I've been in 4 abusive UPC churches. It's not just UPC, the same thing goes on in Baptist, and other denoms.

[TodayAGiftFrGod]

I've been UPC for 14 or so years. I'm still in it. It must be good. I'll have to agree that some individual churches in UPC may give a bad name to the whole. I've been in 4 abusive UPC churches. It's not just UPC, the same thing goes on in Baptist, and other denoms.One of the reasons it is not always the name that up over the door that matters.... Apparently even some can have a name that portrays truth but their spirits differ .... Whether or not they teach and practice the teachings of the scripture should be what matters....

[BrotherBallard]

TodayAGiftFrGod,

Your right! So many times, Churches no matter their affiliation, basically run wild with various and sundry "doctrines" that may not even be Biblical. Some will use just enough Truth to make the Bible say what they want it to say so that they can control the members of that particular Church.

Just because there are a couple of "flakey" Churches, doesn't mean they speak for all Christendom. The sad part is, those types of Churches are the one's that people hear about.


In His Name!!!

[FedwaySHE]

Totally agree with Bro. Ballard.



I was saved in a Home Missions UPC work in Federal Way that later became one of those 'flaky' churches. I never once did blame the organization for our particular church's downfall. However, my husband felt the Lord lead him to return to his previous church in SeaTac, Washington.

For one 'bad' thing that people say about the UPCI organization, I have at LEAST 5 good things to say.....

1. I'm thankful for the unity of the UPCI... (yes I know there are bad apples, BUT majority is unified...)
2. I'm thankful for fellowship meetings... (and we dont just fellowship with upci churches either)
3. My district in particular (okay i'm biased) seriously i think we have an awesome youth board
4. Prejudice is not a big issue in Washington State (welll from what I have observed)
5. Which ever UPC church i visit here in Washington, I always feel at home.

[hna_diana]

I visited a UPC in 1969, received the Holy Ghost, was baptized in Jesus Name, and have been serving Him ever since. I haven't been able to find any other organization in my area that seems to preach the doctrine and live separate from the world as well or better than UPC. I'm sure that other good organizations exist, but in our area, it seems that I have not been able to locate any.

I have become extremely distressed about changes I have seen in the UPCI over the years. Thank God that the DOCTRINE has not changed!

[jhlent]

Good post and Welcome to the GNC

[HSdad]

Is there something else?:eek:
The fellowship
the doctrine
the exhorting
the correction
the wife:rolleyes:

God has provided so many blessings during my association with the UPC

(although, 20 years ago it always seem funny to me that the letters were the same as the Universal Product Code and all the hullabaloo with the Beasty Mark)

[BrotherBallard]

LOL!!! Yep you've been around the "UPC" a while! :laugh:


(although, 20 years ago it always seem funny to me that the letters were the same as the Universal Product Code and all the hullabaloo with the Beasty Mark)

[rocky]

I was baptized and received the Holy Ghost in a church pastored by a man that was in UPC. I think it is a great Org. but there are still some pastors and saints{ the pastor are saints also} that make mistakes. We have got to remember they are human also and humans are fallible.
Let's forgive and move on.

[BlessedinHim]

God has provided so many blessings during my association with the UPC

Besides a true doctrine, (truer) its the blessings that stand out most. I was blessed in other pentecostal type churches, but God really started blessing me when I came back to UPC. Being in God's will requires me to be in UPC and God blesses me for it. My life has prospered greatly.

I don't even try to put socks on anymore. God just blesses them right off.

[Brian Lynch]

I attend a PAW Church in Nottingham UK. We have a UPC Church in Nottingham too. I have visted it. I know some of the brethren there. This ministry of the UPC started about 10 years ago. The UPC Church there make you welcome.

I went to Manchester UK to a meeting there. It was a lovely meeting. Black and white people together. So different to racist allegations I have heard about the UPC. I think some of the UPC teachers are outstanding. They have been a blessing to me.

[Qwizcoach]

I was baptized and received the Holy Ghost in a church pastored by a man that was in UPC. I think it is a great Org. but there are still some pastors and saints{ the pastor are saints also} that make mistakes. We have got to remember they are human also and humans are fallible.
Let's forgive and move on.

I believe we would find this true of any organization and of the many independent churches!

[NanaRenan]

Wow! I'd never seen this thread before. Thanks to whoever bumped it up top!

I, too, get sick of hearing the UPCI, specifically, get slammed for everything wrong that's done in the name of Christianity.

Only serves to prove that UPC must be doing something the devil don't like!

The only problem I've seen in 42 years is that we're all still human. Pastors, elders, praise leaders and Sunday school teachers alike -- none of us are glorified yet. Until then, problems will creep up.

But if we all try to live by Psalm 119:165 ... we'll realize that nothing anyone says or does is worth getting our feelings hurt over, and if we'll focus on HIM everything else pales in comparison.

[Janice Alvear]

I have known and know people who were and are in abusive situations and I know it is human like for especially certain type personalities to fall into traps but many times people are in abusive situations because they don't have a personal walk with God. They just take someone else's word and believe whatever they are told to believe. We need to be more mature and adults in our walk with the Lord. It is scary to see so many oneness people deep in strange false doctrine. We should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
I was watching a communist march today (downtown) here in Brazil and I thought about the hour we are living in and how the devil tries everything he can to get us off track. He knows that the most of us are solid when it comes to baptism in Jesus Name and the oneness so he spends his time bringing new revelations to steer us off somewhere in left field...
I told my children the other night we really must have a personal experience with the Lord.
My youngest boy said to me today, Mother I wish I were more like you. I asked him in what way. He said, you are always praying...Oh! if we could only realize our strength is in prayer, our help is in prayer. Prayer sustains us, guides us, opens doors...

[TodayAGiftFrGod]

Wow! I'd never seen this thread before. Thanks to whoever bumped it up top!
You are welcome! ... I'll take credit for that one back on the 14th of July! :bow:

[survivor4christ]

Okay I don't go for orgs usually...

I was born again in a UPC church and I love the spirit there! :banana:

JMHO,
Sis. Wenona

[florahall]

UPC ???

I love UPC, even if I have a bad experience on two UPC church that I attended. the same thing with the independent church. It is not the organization that is bad but it is the people or the leader or the pastor, or the pastor wife or the deacon or you name it, all bad people you can find it in the church. There are few people that did not have bad background before they join the church. The church had change them to become a good person and that is the testimony that you will hear from the people. There are a lot of good people too, and there are also people that uses the church of UPC for business and for scam, because it is a big organization and there are a lot of business potential. A woman convicted of felony thief uses the church and the members of the church for her business , to scam people, steal, money from the members of the church and thier credit cards. She even manage to convince the Pastor and the Pastor wife and other elders in the church to join on her business, that lead to stealing and scam. She also uses her being a member of the UPC church to scam elderly and steal money from them. She even pay tithes of the money she stole from one of the person in the church. I have been ask so many times untill now if the woman is still in UPC or still in the church. This woman really distroy the name of UPC and not only the name of the church but divided or distroy the church. I was told some of the members that left the church because of this woman. Adultery, fornication, stealing scam, lying, envy, and ect. this woman is very expert in doing the crime. Thank God and it is a relieve of our church that this woman not in the UPC anymore.

What ever we do as a member will reflect the reputation of the church and the organization. And not only the organization but it does reflect our faith as apostolic pentecostal. Again Untill now I and my other friends in church sometimes ask by people that know her not becasue she is good person but because of her bad reputation and her sin and crime. Again Thank God, that she is not in UPC anymore or any of the church that I do fellowship .

I am happy to be a member of the UPC or a member of any apostolic church that preaches the truth not a lie and a church that has standard inside and outside and do do what they preach.

A lot of people dont want to be a UPC because they cannot follow the rules and regulation and the standard of the Organization.
One God, One faith and one Baptism, and one wife if you want to be a pastor of the church, unless the wife dies. This is just one of the rules but there are many more.

UPC don't put chain on the members, but they have rules to be followed and it is your choice to follow or not.

Sister Flora Hall

[PastorS]

I'll be the first to agree that people can go into certain UPC churches and meet legalism. phariseeism, condemnation and all sorts of stuff.

They can also find the same thing in certain ALJC churches, PAW churches, whatever churches. Spiritual abuse is not limited to UPCI assemblies.

We at Apostolic Network Ministries are sick of UPCI bashing. There are dozens of websites out there that have nothing but bad things to say about the UPCI. We want to create a web site:

www.welovetheupc.com

What we want to put there is positive things about the UPC. There is alot of negative that we would like to offset. The truth of the matter is that there are tens of thousands serving God today as a a direct result of a UPC church being there, with a godly leadership that reached for them and worked with them, and taught them the precepts of God.

We want your input, and the input of anyone who has been blessed by the UPCI. I believe there are more people out there with something good to say about the upc than there are with something bad.

The people with a bad report aren't afraid to stand up and tell it. Whay not give the folks with a good report a place to STAND UP AND TELL IT!

Thoughts....suggestions?
NOTE: There is no INDEX or DEFAULT.HTM so the site is showing a directory...

[PastorS]

Im not UPCI, but have met a few UPCI members and ministers. While helping a church in Stockton CA 5 years ago, I met brother Haney and got to know his burden for at that time his church and school. Today as the leader in the UPCI I thank the Lord for people in leadership, specially those who have an awesome testimony.

May the Lord richly bless your efforts on that website. How can we make a donation???

[4everwithJesus]

So is the site going up?? Progress report please!

I would love to have a wonderful site devoted to the UPC so when someone googles the organization they get that site and not the so called spiritual abuse site (thank you Lois Gibson).

[oneway238]

I was baptized and received the Holy Ghost in a church pastored by a man that was in UPC. I think it is a great Org. but there are still some pastors and saints{ the pastor are saints also} that make mistakes. We have got to remember they are human also and humans are fallible.
Let's forgive and move on.
AMEN:tup: as I always say you pray for me and me for you and we will make it
GBU

[oneway238]

I am a oneness Apostolic Pentecostal Born again child of the Lord Jesus
who has obey acts 2:38:tup: :icon_danc :banana:

People make mistakes:down: but there is no way I am going back:banana:

We need to let the Lord lead us:banana:

I am blessed:banana:

GBU
sis robin s

[KentuckyDad]

No matter the name of the group, sometimes there will be a wolf in sheep's clothing, or saints that thrive on "being hurt" and drawing attention to themselves.

My hearts desire lies in churches pulling together to build orphanages in America and elsewhere, and more emphasis reaching out to non-English speakers.

[SignsofPraise]

Great Idea Bro. John.

I was Raised and Saved in a UPC Church, and still attend a UPC church so I dont see why so many would bash it. But thats Human Nature...

[bjc40]

I posted a thread which was titled "The UPCI Declining" which was meant to address if the UPC needed to change some of their standards. It did get some "abuses" mentioned.
All denominations and independent churches are subject to having "spiritual abuse", I seen it in independent churches as well as denominational. There are UPC churches with "sound" practices and some with "unsound" practices, but that doesn't make the whole denomination wrong. (though I do think they will have to modify there stance on certain issues)....
Just My Thoughts,
Brother bjc40

[Janice Alvear]

Usually the problem is not the organization it is the individual...and when a person has a problem somewhere and they run from it the problem appears at their next hideout.
I do not belong to the UPC but am thankful for many good friends that do...whatever the organization or group there is always a potential for abuse.
I do believe some people enjoy be abused or either they are totally blind to what abuse really is.
As my kids would say, "brainwashed mother, some folks are brainwashed..."
As a whole the UPC has many good factors and many good people. I don't think people should judge them because of a few out of balanced people.

[revtonysantucci]

I'll be the first to agree that people can go into certain UPC churches and meet legalism. phariseeism, condemnation and all sorts of stuff.

They can also find the same thing in certain ALJC churches, PAW churches, whatever churches. Spiritual abuse is not limited to UPCI assemblies.

We at Apostolic Network Ministries are sick of UPCI bashing. There are dozens of websites out there that have nothing but bad things to say about the UPCI. We want to create a web site:

www.welovetheupc.com

What we want to put there is positive things about the UPC. There is alot of negative that we would like to offset. The truth of the matter is that there are tens of thousands serving God today as a a direct result of a UPC church being there, with a godly leadership that reached for them and worked with them, and taught them the precepts of God.

We want your input, and the input of anyone who has been blessed by the UPCI. I believe there are more people out there with something good to say about the upc than there are with something bad.

The people with a bad report aren't afraid to stand up and tell it. Whay not give the folks with a good report a place to STAND UP AND TELL IT!

Thoughts....suggestions?
Hey, When we left the first church I went to when I first Got in church four years ago, We were welcomed with open arms at a u.p.c. church in chalmette la. Pastor Milton Martin Jr. What a great help. HE helped me get so close to God, you could smell him.
The preaching was uplifting, and he even had higher holiness standards. There I was used to preach in jail,street,Nursing Home,church, and teach sunday school. He believes in following the Holy Ghost, and the bible along the way with it. It's the same thing though. he-he-he. The U.P.C.I has some of the best ministers alive such as: Gordon Poe, Lee Stoneking,Martyn Ballistero, Gary Howard, Larry Padgett, Wade Bass, Steve Pixler, Paul Mooney, Felix Crowder, etc. All those people I know personally and I can take what they say to the bank most of the time. Gordon Poe on the other hand, is a force to be reckoned with. Don't be a lazy minister, or pastor, and think your gonna get away with it, when you let him preach for you. He will show you the love of God, and let you know there is a place of no return. I love the upc

[JesusWaysOnly]

why arent we just the church! why the extra name.

1Cr 1:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr001.html#13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

[Former PK]

why arent we just the church! why the extra name.

1Cr 1:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr001.html#13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


That is a Wonderful idea!!! Now if we could just rid ourselves of all of the humans and their nasty ideas. Their need to segregate and congregate. Their ideas that my revelation is higher than yours. Their inferiority and Superiority and just plain egos.

Then we will all get along as one big happy family.

Personally, I feel that will be the miricle of Heaven.

[LilOrphanAnnie]

If anyone can think of how to spread the gospel to millions, send missionaries to all parts of the world, keep all it's hundreds of thousands of members holding to a certain standard of doctrine, rescue orphans, produce a high volume of apostolic literature & media, and etc - WITHOUT having an organizational body to organize it & do it by, then WHY DON'T THEY. Personally I don't see that these achievements could be possible without some sort of organizational body, which is what the UPCI is.

The UPC isn't perfect, but neither is any other group, or arrogant non-group that thinks it's better because it doesn't have a name, or whoever. We are all just people doing the best we can, we all have flaws & problem areas. When people do MORE on their own than the UPC, then maybe they have a right to judge.

[BroRutledge]

If anyone can think of how to spread the gospel to millions, send missionaries to all parts of the world, keep all it's hundreds of thousands of members holding to a certain standard of doctrine, rescue orphans, produce a high volume of apostolic literature & media, and etc - WITHOUT having an organizational body to organize it & do it by, then WHY DON'T THEY. Personally I don't see that these achievements could be possible without some sort of organizational body, which is what the UPCI is.

The UPC isn't perfect, but neither is any other group, or arrogant non-group that thinks it's better because it doesn't have a name, or whoever. We are all just people doing the best we can, we all have flaws & problem areas. When people do MORE on their own than the UPC, then maybe they have a right to judge.
I understand what you are saying, however we should remember that things which seem impossible to us are possible with God.

The organization could not figure out how David could defeat the Giant, but he did and the system had very little to do with it. The organization could not see how any good come of the stand taken by the three Hebrew boys, but they stood and were willing to go through the fire. It was impossible but God used them to bring and awareness of the true God to more people that day than all the efforts in the history of the system.

God is doing a great work in the world that we never read about in the Pentecostal Herold or the Forward Magazine. Some of the greatest revivals and awesome moves of God are not reported in orginazations that report things to make themselves look good.

While I am not against organized effort, I do not give any glory to the system. All glory goes to God, and God's army is much larger than any orginized system.

The people of God far outnumber the various groups we have organized, and God is sending his people forth and doing awesome things that seem impossible to us everyday. We just don't hear about it sometimes because the people involved didn't carry a card with our system.

God bless
BroRutledge

[LilOrphanAnnie]

Amen & GBU Bro. Rutledge!

[Buckeye]

I was baptized in Jesus Name and filled with the Holy Ghost in Alexandria, La. November 1978. This was when the church was located on Rapides Ave.and Bro. Anthony Mangun was pastoring in Plano, TX.

I came from the denominal world (Presbyterian for years, Church of Christ before that). I thank God that Jack Hickman from Silsbee, Tx. had a burden for me and won me to the Lord. I also thank God that there was a UPC church in Alexandria that believed this Acts 2:38 gospel. I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for people who believed this New-Birth truth. :tup:

[JesusWaysOnly]

I understand what you are saying, however we should remember that things which seem impossible to us are possible with God.

The organization could not figure out how David could defeat the Giant, but he did and the system had very little to do with it. The organization could not see how any good come of the stand taken by the three Hebrew boys, but they stood and were willing to go through the fire. It was impossible but God used them to bring and awareness of the true God to more people that day than all the efforts in the history of the system.

God is doing a great work in the world that we never read about in the Pentecostal Herold or the Forward Magazine. Some of the greatest revivals and awesome moves of God are not reported in orginazations that report things to make themselves look good.

While I am not against organized effort, I do not give any glory to the system. All glory goes to God, and God's army is much larger than any orginized system.

The people of God far outnumber the various groups we have organized, and God is sending his people forth and doing awesome things that seem impossible to us everyday. We just don't hear about it sometimes because the people involved didn't carry a card with our system.

God bless
BroRutledgethis statement is greatly appreciated, it scares me sometimes to see people putting more faith into the system than into God. Lord Jesus open our ears to hear your voice, and humble our hearts to know you are all sovereign.

[nomoreshackles]

I know! It's so weird how of all the apostolic denominations the UPCI is so picked on. Some UPC churches ARE cults but so are lots of trinitarian churches and other apostolic churches... not just the UPC.

[Estrada]

I'm sorry maybe that is too forward of a statement and please don't let me offend anyone in anyway whatsoever if, so I will apologize immediately. However, there are so "many" different organizations that if a person really sat back and counted them all and what they believe they may leave with a big headache. I'm all for an organization that really presents oneness in the body of Christ between Gods people all Jesus name/Holy Ghost filled children of the most high God! However I am not for an organization that chooses to seperate themselves from all Gods people "other" than those that are part of "their organization". I feel thats wrong..Plus, a person can walk through so many of these organizations and they have all sorts of different standards going on it can amaze the mind...I sometimes imagine Jesus walking through a midst of organizations and he has this "man made" organization fighting with the "man made organizatioin" or going against a little independent apostolic church cause they believe in being independent and that God did not place everyone to choose to say their from this one or that one....Paul didn't even allow them to say so and so baptized me and so and so baptized me and here we have people saying well, i'm from this organization and i'm from this one and we can't fellowship with your chuch cause your not part of our organization...when things go on like that to be honest with you its ridiculous simply ridiculous how can anyone see that as being the will of God when Jesus Christ himself prayed for us to be one:angel: Or how about you need someone to "vouch" for you or you need to carry this card around so that people will know you are a good person:idea: I'm sorry but, I refuse to carry a card that says I'm a good person cause I belong to this organization and on the back it reads I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't watch tv....lol...lol...I'm sorry if the Lord can't speak up on behalf of his children and we have resorted to pieces of papers and having to keep files on saints with any little mistake they've done so that if they ever move their :yeah: new pastor can call us up and we have to pull out a file and state this and that....I'm sorry feels like gossip to me....about one of Gods children...I'm sorry but, I don't want any part of that God never gave authority to no man/position to gossip and degrade your brother and sister....:realmad: We have a small growing little independent church and they are so bound with love I would never even want those babes to know this kind of stuff goes on in some apostolic churches thats for sure. Their masters are to be as their servants we work hard for our families in the church to be a help and encouragement to them and to bring them closer to Jesus never would we think to ever try to be Lords over God heritage for one bit...:confused: I want to know where leadership is getting all that control from? I don't see that when I read the new testament at all...I see help, wisdom, forewarnings and instruction so that we can all put on the armour of God together and fight this battle as one body holding strong til Jesus comes:spin:

[Estrada]

Bro. Morgan is awesome as well as Bro. Stoneking and many others. They have great evangelists as well. :yeah:

Praise God for all "his" wondrous works when men let "him" do the wondrous works through them praise God!

[TonyAlan]

I have visited the spiritual abuse website started by Lois Gibson many times in the last couple of years. She is definitely leading many people astray. I am a very liberal apostolic but, she is even encouraging people to stay out of church for indefinite periods of time for what she calls " healing period". Most of the people I've met on this forum Lois Gibson heads up, are very bitter and self-absorbed. There may be a lot of things I don't agree with in the UPC and ALJC org., They are by far
the closest to truth I have found.

God Bless, Tony Hamilton

[Estrada]

however we should never shun our brother and sister...I'm sorry but, I don't believe that..Yes, the UPC has great preachers and are doing their very best. As long as there is a devil he will blind men to promote disfellowship and disunity he did it in heaven he does it on earth and I know that is in definite existence today. My husband and I are very strong against that. We do take a stand on those who promote that whether it be an independent or an organization any "organization" church body. My goodness we are living in the last days. What I feel for is for those saints who choose to obey man rather than God that are living in that and don't come out from amoungst it....Like I can't talk to you cause you are not part of my organization and my pastor teaches this...... I feel for them.... WE ARE ONE BODY!!!!! :bow: OF JESUS CHRIST BEING CHIEF CORNERSTONE!....

[nomoreshackles]

I'm sorry maybe that is too forward of a statement and please don't let me offend anyone in anyway whatsoever if, so I will apologize immediately. However, there are so "many" different organizations that if a person really sat back and counted them all and what they believe they may leave with a big headache. I'm all for an organization that really presents oneness in the body of Christ between Gods people all Jesus name/Holy Ghost filled children of the most high God! However I am not for an organization that chooses to seperate themselves from all Gods people "other" than those that are part of "their organization". I feel thats wrong..Plus, a person can walk through so many of these organizations and they have all sorts of different standards going on it can amaze the mind...I sometimes imagine Jesus walking through a midst of organizations and he has this "man made" organization fighting with the "man made organizatioin" or going against a little independent apostolic church cause they believe in being independent and that God did not place everyone to choose to say their from this one or that one....Paul didn't even allow them to say so and so baptized me and so and so baptized me and here we have people saying well, i'm from this organization and i'm from this one and we can't fellowship with your chuch cause your not part of our organization...when things go on like that to be honest with you its ridiculous simply ridiculous how can anyone see that as being the will of God when Jesus Christ himself prayed for us to be one:angel: Or how about you need someone to "vouch" for you or you need to carry this card around so that people will know you are a good person:idea: I'm sorry but, I refuse to carry a card that says I'm a good person cause I belong to this organization and on the back it reads I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't watch tv....lol...lol...I'm sorry if the Lord can't speak up on behalf of his children and we have resorted to pieces of papers and having to keep files on saints with any little mistake they've done so that if they ever move their :yeah: new pastor can call us up and we have to pull out a file and state this and that....I'm sorry feels like gossip to me....about one of Gods children...I'm sorry but, I don't want any part of that God never gave authority to no man/position to gossip and degrade your brother and sister....:realmad: We have a small growing little independent church and they are so bound with love I would never even want those babes to know this kind of stuff goes on in some apostolic churches thats for sure. Their masters are to be as their servants we work hard for our families in the church to be a help and encouragement to them and to bring them closer to Jesus never would we think to ever try to be Lords over God heritage for one bit...:confused: I want to know where leadership is getting all that control from? I don't see that when I read the new testament at all...I see help, wisdom, forewarnings and instruction so that we can all put on the armour of God together and fight this battle as one body holding strong til Jesus comes:spin: I totally agree... we are saved by JESUS not an organization.

[NanaRenan]

I know! It's so weird how of all the apostolic denominations the UPCI is so picked on.
Simple! The devil hates and and all who preach the TRUTH. And the bigger the group -- more potential power to spread the TRUTH -- the more he hates them.

[NanaRenan]

I have visited the spiritual abuse website started by Lois Gibson many times in the last couple of years. She is definitely leading many people astray. I am a very liberal apostolic but, she is even encouraging people to stay out of church for indefinite periods of time for what she calls " healing period". Most of the people I've met on this forum Lois Gibson heads up, are very bitter and self-absorbed. There may be a lot of things I don't agree with in the UPC and ALJC org., They are by far the closest to truth I have found.

God Bless, Tony Hamilton
There are numerous websites where people with hurt feelings that the devil has amplified and blown all out of proportion go to spill a flood of bile against churches and pastors that preach the truth. It can break your heart reading the stories and seeing how the devil has hurt the writers and many who read with his lies.

I am not saying that the "spiritual abuse" does not happen. But, one must be prayerful and very, very certain that they aren't just nursing hurt feelings into something more than they are when they join in these diatribes against apostolic churches.

There've been many times in my 42 years when I've been "hurt" or "offended" by some word or action of the pastor or church members. I even backslide over some of them -- completely abandoning the church for seven years.
But in hindsight -- with my heart prayed up and my eyes on Jesus -- I can honestly say that in each and every instance if I had gone to my knees in prayer and weighed that "offense" against my love for God, it would have melted away to nothingness in comparison.

PSALM 119:165 Great peace have they that love thy law and nothing shall offend them.

I'm glad there wasn't a website for me to vent on back then -- for I would have no doubt built quite a case against the church in my state of mind at the time. As it is, I pray I led no one astray then and pray I make no misstep to lead any astray EVER.

[christian]

I certainy believe in Acts 2:38 as the plan of salvation and oneness.
I have communicated with Lois Gibson she is a friend of mine do I agree with her on everything no I don't but I still love her anyways.
She has treated me with very well as mater fact of she has helped with some Avatars of mine online.
LOL to all and may God bless The UPCI.

[christian]

One thing I appreciate about The UPCI is how many people have heard the plan of salvation due to Harvest time and such worthy efforts as this.
How many churches are blessed by The WAF sunday school material ?I see this material in alot of IND.churches.

[GODis1]

Guess I will have to "bump" this one ;)
I was raised in UPCI and have held license with them off and on since '75.
They aren't perfect, but neither am I (my wife needs to see my write that! ha-ha)
As a parent, I have made mistakes. My parents made mistakes, and my family has made
mistakes. I still love them and they still love me. We are a family.
People will always get hurt. That is part of life. What they need to beware of is getting bitter. That
can/will destroy if not rooted out.
It never entered my mind to dis-fellowship with the organization because of a particular stand or disagreement. For a very personal reason, I am not active in the ministry but still hold license with
them.
Not all organization is bad. I personally believe that there was some organization in the early church.
In Acts 15 we find situations that had to be dealt with and without the problem(s) being resolved who
knows where the church would be today.
Any way, I thank God for the UPCI and the other organizations. I pray for the leadership and will do
my best to submit to them till they start preaching something that isn't Bible or true :)
Nuff ramblin ;)
God bless,
GODis1 \o/

[daisy lover]

Well...here we go. I found this MB by accident...but then again, maybe I didn't. I am a member of the Jesus Name Penicostal Church in Chehalis, Washington. I have attended church for about 5 years and finally, after fighting the devil for so long, I prayed thru and recieved the Holy Ghost under the guidence of visiting Bro Ballistero. This was April 9, 2004 and on April 11, 2004, Easter, I was baptized.


I tell you, this is the best place for me to be right now!!! :spin:

[HighFrequency]

I have only good things to say about the United Pentecostal Church. If I wanted to I could easily focus on those moments when I didn't like certain things, but the good FAR outweighs the bad. I also love the ALJC and many other great Apostolic organizations. Some of the finest people I know on the face of the earth also attend independant works that are not connected to any particular organizations.

Regardless of organizational ties or non organizational preferences, there is only one group that is going to make it. THE REDEEMED.

I want to be in that number that no man can number and enjoy eternity with my brothers and sisters forever.

During my ministry I have carried liscense with the UPCI for several years and also the ALJC for several years. I gave up my license to pastor a work in louisiana for a few years because the older minister that had pioneered the Church and raised it up for almost 50 years before I went there had taught them that they should never be part of an organization. I don't know why he felt that way, but there were about three hundred members there who did not believe in UPC ALJC or any other organization.

God blessed us in that work, and many people found God. During the period of time while we were there the Lord helped the congregation to adjust to accepting UPC brothers and sisters as good people to fellowship. Some of them didn't know where to draw the lines because bro Hemphill had felt for years that they should not be in an organization, but yet he accepted them and worked with the organizations. The Lord used me to help them to come to a greater appreciation for all the people of God. The Church has grown and is doing very well today.

Bro Carl Shurte succeeded me as pastor there and has done a tremendous job of taking them forward. Here is a link to the Church there in West Monroe, LA where we were mightily blessed, and I will never forget those wonderful days.

http://www.livingwayapostolic.org/

Here is a recording of the founder of the Church, bro W. T. Hemphill. Bro Hemphill is the father of Joel Hemphill. You may have heard of the singing Hemphills. Joel wrote the song..."HE'S STILL WORKING ON ME" and many other wonderful songs while I was there. In fact I was the first person to hear that song as bro Joel took the words out of his shirt pocket and wanted to get my opinion before he finished the song. Candy Hemphill recorded that beautiful song "CONSIDER THE LILLIES" While we were there. I conducted the wedding for Joey Hemphill, taught Trent Hemphill piano lessons, and conducted bro W. T. Hemphill's funeral while there. Howard and Vestel Goodman came and formed a trio with me for several songs at the service and afterward I sat with them for several hours talking about our precious truth, and there were many details that I may share later on another thread. There are so many beautiful memories and things we could discuss that it would take several books just to get started.

Bro W. T. Hemphill was never part of any organization, but was accepted by the UPC ALJC and many others as highly respected minister of the Gospel in good standing. He was loved by all, and even though he felt that organization was not the way to go, he loved the people of all the Apostolic organizations as well as the independants and showed only kindness and appreciation to all.

At his funeral there were thousands and I mean thousands of people from all over the world walking by his remains. We kept his body at the Church for a couple of days while several thousand came to show their love and appreciation to this man of God with tears in their eyes. Often during that time long lines of people would break into praise and worship and hundreds of them were ministers and missionaries from many organizations who came to God under the ministry of W. T. Hemphill.

Here is bro W. T. Hemphill 87 years young with a short testimony that he gave shortly before he passed away. He was standing next to me as I held the mic and died a few days later.

http://www.acts238.org/wthemphill.m3u

God bless
BroRutledge

I just found this too....

I have only been goign to Living Way since March 2005 and I LOVE IT!! Revival, revival, revival!!!!!! Bro Shurte is a powerful man of God!! I admire him greatly! I enjoyed reading your post, i learned a little about my church's history. Anythign else you would like to share, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks! :D

[daisy lover]

We are not UPC at my church, but it would be ignorant for me to say something bad against a church that is a UPC church. That would be like me saying "I like ice tea but I don't like yours because you don't put ice in it." Do you get what I am saying. We are taught the same thing. It is just descrimination.

[Estrada]

Let's be for one another whether we be part of an organization or independent let's love one another and reach for the upmost gift of them all which is Charity a divine love for one another given to us through the Holy Ghost. Thats what we should all desire to seek after is loving our brother/sister at any cost whether we agree or disagree. I like to speak and get along with all Jesus name organizations/independents however, shunning my bro/sister is not the best idea when the walk accordingly to the word of God and we know them by their fruits...Amen!

[ddc101]

I just found this too....

I have only been goign to Living Way since March 2005 and I LOVE IT!! Revival, revival, revival!!!!!! Bro Shurte is a powerful man of God!! I admire him greatly! I enjoyed reading your post, i learned a little about my church's history. Anythign else you would like to share, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks! :D
Amen I love the Shurtes.
Heres an old story that not many know.
Brother Shurtes mother Sister Geneva Antoine is a wonderful lady and friend of mine.She used to get out in her car when Brother Shurte was a little boy and go up and down the streets with a megaphone shouting....Come to Pine Forest Pentecostal Church Sunday School.He was raised right.That lady has a burden for souls.They are blessed to have her living there with them and attending Living Way.High Frequency if you see this tonight please tell her
that Sister Dana Cooper said hello.I love that little lady.lv sis.c

[bjc40]

Clothesline Religion....:eek:
Ever heard that before? I have..
Since I came into the truth of "oneness" I have attended independent apostolic churches and UPCI churches, and I am currently attending a UPCI church.
I think those who make that accusation fail to realize there is more to apostolic beliefs than the outward appearance. They fail to examine the theology, doctrine or history of the apostolic church for themsleves.
And yalls opinion???
Brother bjc40

[survivor4christ]

Bro BJC...

I have a hard time reading your posts.

Some of the words are white and blends in with the background and some are blue.

Just thought you should know... :spin: :spin:

Love, Sis. Wenona

[HighFrequency]

Amen I love the Shurtes.
Heres an old story that not many know.
Brother Shurtes mother Sister Geneva Antoine is a wonderful lady and friend of mine.She used to get out in her car when Brother Shurte was a little boy and go up and down the streets with a megaphone shouting....Come to Pine Forest Pentecostal Church Sunday School.He was raised right.That lady has a burden for souls.They are blessed to have her living there with them and attending Living Way.High Frequency if you see this tonight please tell her
that Sister Dana Cooper said hello.I love that little lady.lv sis.c

May I ask how you know her? Are you here in Louisiana somewhere? Just curious!

Wow, yeah I knew she was a godly woman! She is sweet! Can you believe she still drives herself!? I was just floored when I saw her hop in her little Dodge Neon one nite after prayer meeting and drive off! lol :laugh: I just wasn't expecting it! I thought for sure she rode with someone! She is a very independent lady! I admire her! Yes, If I get a chance to catch her I will tell her you say hello!

They are great ppl, I have only been there since March, but I love it there! It's a big church (700+), but doesn't have a "big church mentality". You don't get shunned...you never ever feel like an outsider...it's one big Revival minded family! :banana:

[Estrada]

No church is perfect it all comes down to where an individuals heart is at with God and if they run in packs or not...like a group of individuals just being plain carnal...you can't look at one situation and stereotype a whole organization because of it that wouldn't be right...it is how we treat one another that counts we don't have time to worry about situations that are not impacting our personal lives alls we need to do is pray for ourselves, one another and we should have a burden to pray for the BODY OF CHRIST as well...which includes the UPC Amen!

[ddc101]

May I ask how you know her? Are you here in Louisiana somewhere? Just curious!

Wow, yeah I knew she was a godly woman! She is sweet! Can you believe she still drives herself!? I was just floored when I saw her hop in her little Dodge Neon one nite after prayer meeting and drive off! lol :laugh: I just wasn't expecting it! I thought for sure she rode with someone! She is a very independent lady! I admire her! Yes, If I get a chance to catch her I will tell her you say hello!

They are great ppl, I have only been there since March, but I love it there! It's a big church (700+), but doesn't have a "big church mentality". You don't get shunned...you never ever feel like an outsider...it's one big Revival minded family! :banana:

Hi
Yes I know her from Brentwood United Pentecostal Church in Pensacola,Fl where she was a member for years along with her aunt Sister Kimmons and her Sister.Lv sis.c

[HighFrequency]

Hi
Yes I know her from Brentwood United Pentecostal Church in Pensacola,Fl where she was a member for years along with her aunt Sister Kimmons and her Sister.Lv sis.c



ooooh yeah ok! Yeah, I knew they were from FL. Do you know Bro Shurte's son, Troy? Well, he is now back in FL pastoring a home missions church.

[ddc101]

If I remember he is married to Kim Farrel.Isn't he around Coral Gable?

[BroRutledge]

I just found this too....

I have only been goign to Living Way since March 2005 and I LOVE IT!! Revival, revival, revival!!!!!! Bro Shurte is a powerful man of God!! I admire him greatly! I enjoyed reading your post, i learned a little about my church's history. Anythign else you would like to share, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks! :DPraise God

It is good to see you here.

Please tell bro Shurte and all my friends at the Church I said hello.

I really came to love those people while I was there. We have some wonderful memories.

God bless
BroRutledge

[HighFrequency]

Praise God

It is good to see you here.

Please tell bro Shurte and all my friends at the Church I said hello.

I really came to love those people while I was there. We have some wonderful memories.

God bless
BroRutledge


I will do that!! Yes, they are great ppl! :)

[HighFrequency]

If I remember he is married to Kim Farrel.Isn't he around Coral Gable?

yes, his wife's name is Kim...I don't know her maiden name, that's probably it. I foget where he said he was going...it's in the ALJC minister contact book online.

[cody]

I found this thread while lurking. ;)

I was born into the church through the UPCI and I love it.
I know, its not perfect, but is anything on this earth except our Lord? No.

[Estrada]

I don't like to shun anybody how about you?

[BrotherEastman]

I was baptized in Jesus name and filled with the precious gift of the Holy Ghost in the UPC. My pastor who prayed with me to recieve the Holy Ghost was the late Rev. Kenneth Fields in Oxnard, California in the fall of 1978. Thank you Jesus for the UPCI......I was UPC born..I was UPC bred, and when I die I'll be UPC dead. :banana: :banana: :banana:

[mfblume]

I was baptized in Jesus name and filled with the precious gift of the Holy Ghost in the UPC. My pastor who prayed with me to recieve the Holy Ghost was the late Rev. Kenneth Fields in Oxnard, California in the fall of 1978. Thank you Jesus for the UPCI......I was UPC born..I was UPC bred, and when I die I'll be UPC dead. :banana: :banana: :banana:

I was saved in the UPCI, but I am not presently in the UPCI. I believe and teach and preach the same doctrine of salvation and Godhead as UPCI, but the UPCI is not something I would say I would die as part of. It's only an organization. I would never equate it with the Body of Christ.

Not saying you did this, but I would never glorify the UPCI as some do. I think it hurts the Lord to divide the body of Christ by saying the UPCI is as important to me as the Body of Christ is. I was saved in the UPCI, but I would far rather phrase it that I was saved in One God Apostolic truth, and when I die I will be a One God Apostolic.

[BrotherEastman]

I was saved in the UPCI, but I am not presently in the UPCI. I believe and teach and preach the same doctrine of salvation and Godhead as UPCI, but the UPCI is not something I would say I would die as part of. It's only an organization. I would never equate it with the Body of Christ.

Not saying you did this, but I would never glorify the UPCI as some do. I think it hurts the Lord to divide the body of Christ by saying the UPCI is as important to me as the Body of Christ is. I was saved in the UPCI, but I would far rather phrase it that I was saved in One God Apostolic truth, and when I die I will be a One God Apostolic.
I suppose your right brother, but it was in the UPC that I have my heritage with God. It was in the UPC that I recieved the most precious experience with God, it may be different with you and I am not bashing your history or heretage. God bless you Bro. Blume.

[mfblume]

I suppose your right brother, but it was in the UPC that I have my heritage with God. It was in the UPC that I recieved the most precious experience with God, it may be different with you and I am not bashing your history or heretage. God bless you Bro. Blume.

It was no different with me. But I personally could not, before the Lord, feel any issue of "heritage" with a man-made organization.

I am not so intolerant as one author "seems" to have been (and I ONLY SAY "SEEMS"), but he had a point. He said, any UNITY less than the Body of Christ, so far as a body of fellowship is concerned, is not to be considered, and is an incorrect assessment of what spiritual UNITY we should embrace before the Lord.

God made the BODY OF CHRIST. Man made lesser bodies in it. And anything man-made can become an idol. It is not to everyone in the upci, but the upci is an idol to many in it. I appreciate the upci for what it really is. But not more.

God bless you, too. :)

[BrotherEastman]

Does authority come from man? How then can you say an organization is man-made? Did not God himself form the earth, because it was without form? Did God cause everything to be organized from the beginning? Bro Blume forgive me, but this thread was started to give a good report of the UPCI not bash it.:mad: :huh:

[John Atkinson]

I just wish I could go to general conference... good people of God and great fellowship would be there.

I do love the UPCI.

[BrotherEastman]

I just wish I could go to general conference... good people of God and great fellowship would be there.

I do love the UPCI.
Bro John. I'll be there. Why can't you go??

[mfblume]

Does authority come from man? How then can you say an organization is man-made? Did not God himself form the earth, because it was without form? Did God cause everything to be organized from the beginning? Bro Blume forgive me, but this thread was started to give a good report of the UPCI not bash it.:mad: :huh:

Brother, had God started the UPCI, it would be in the bible. God started the BODY OF CHRIST. THAT is in the Word. Organizations are not God-made just because God organized things. God is into organizing things, but when man does it, it is not God doing it. :) That does not mean it is wrong. It just means we cannot say it is God as the Body of Christ is God. Organizations are well and good, in their right places. But not beyond that. :)

[Rulkiewicz]

Is the website down?

[BrotherEastman]

Brother, had God started the UPCI, it would be in the bible. God started the BODY OF CHRIST. THAT is in the Word. Organizations are not God-made just because God organized things. God is into organizing things, but when man does it, it is not God doing it. :) That does not mean it is wrong. It just means we cannot say it is God as the Body of Christ is God. Organizations are well and good, in their right places. But not beyond that. :)
Thats the problem with some folk, they think that God didn't start the UPC much like He didn't start any other Apostolic organization. Bro. Blume I'll encourage you to read "United We Stand" then you can tell me whether or not God had a hand in the formation of the UPC. I really think you are not understanding of my testimony.

[mfblume]

Thats the problem with some folk, they think that God didn't start the UPC much like He didn't start any other Apostolic organization. Bro. Blume I'll encourage you to read "United We Stand" then you can tell me whether or not God had a hand in the formation of the UPC. I really think you are not understanding of my testimony.

But testimonies much match the Word of God.

Here is what I meant to you:

I read the book you noted, and I believe I have a proper understanding of what the fellowship is all about. And I give honour to whom honour is due. The UPC is worthy of honour.

However, the UPCI and all other fellowships that preach the truth are all part of the great body of Christ. Man-made fellowships is all they are, though. They are not like the CHURCH in general. And I believe God was behind the formation of such things, but not to the degree you take it to, though. And they are like "scaffolding" surrounding the body of Christ. Scaffolding is removed after the structure is built. The body of Christ remains though. There will be no UPCI in heaven, nor another such fellowship, but there will be the BODY OF CHRIST in heaven when it's all said and done.

If the UPCI was constructed of God, then it would not have started in 1945, but would have been named in the second chapter of Acts. (And please don't give me that "one accord means 'United' ", bit, and the day of Pentecost means "Pentecostal" and add that to the word "church." lol).

The scaffolding is good! We need it TO A DEGREE, but no further.

There are several fellowships that are all good and involverd in the Body of Christ. But they are not the body of Christ in and of thesmelves. So I have to disagree with you on this. :)

[BrotherEastman]

But testimonies much match the Word of God.

Here is what I meant to you:

I read the book you noted, and I believe I have a proper understanding of what the fellowship is all about. And I give honour to whom honour is due. The UPC is worthy of honour.

However, the UPCI and all other fellowships that preach the truth are all part of the great body of Christ. Man-made fellowships is all they are, though. They are not like the CHURCH in general. And I believe God was behind the formation of such things, but not to the degree you take it to, though. And they are like "scaffolding" surrounding the body of Christ. Scaffolding is removed after the structure is built. The body of Christ remains though. There will be no UPCI in heaven, nor another such fellowship, but there will be the BODY OF CHRIST in heaven when it's all said and done.

If the UPCI was constructed of God, then it would not have started in 1945, but would have been named in the second chapter of Acts. (And please don't give me that one accord means "united", bit, and the day of Pentecost means "Pentecostal" and add that to the word "church." lol).

The scaffolding is good! We need it TO A DEGREE, but no further.

There are several fellowships that are all good and involverd in the Body of Christ. But they are not the body of Christ in and of thesmelves. So I have to disagree with you on this. :)
Excuse me, but my testimony is scriptural or "word of God" I was baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, since when is this not scriptural. I recieved salvation in a United Pentecostal Church according to Acts 2:38. I still think you may be reading into my origanal posting.

[mfblume]

Excuse me, but my testimony is scriptural or "word of God" I was baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, since when is this not scriptural. I recieved salvation in a United Pentecostal Church according to Acts 2:38. I still think you may be reading into my origanal posting.

Excuse me, but your testimony does not make the UPCI an institution built by God. Your testimony is indeed the word of God! But I thought you referred to your testimony of the UPCI. Acts 2:38 makes the CHURCH and the BODY OF CHRIST proven to be God's building, not the UPCI. As great and wonderful as the UPCI is, it is not the Body of Christ. Sorry. If that was not the case, then I know people not even saved in the UPCI. So that would mean they could still go to heaven and not even be saved, but they are part of the UPCI structure and fellowship. :D If you get my drift.

All I am saying is that ANY fellowship formulated by man to operate in a secular governmental system for the sake of finances and licensing, etc., is not, in and of itself, the CHURCH and the body of Christ. It is scaffolding only. And one day all fellowships will be gone and all that wil be left is the BODY OF CHRIST. But let's not neglect our brethren who believe and preach what we do simply because they're not in the same "scaffolding" we are. :) THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING. :D

Let's all say "scaffolding".

[BrotherEastman]

Excuse me, but your testimony does not make the UPCI an institution built by God. Your testimony is indeed the word of God! But I thought you referred to your testimony of the UPCI. Acts 2:38 makes the CHURCH and the BODY OF CHRIST proven to be God's building, not the UPCI. As great and wonderful as the UPCI is, it is not the Body of Christ. Sorry. If that was not the case, then I know people not even saved in the UPCI. So that would mean they could still go to heaven and not even be saved, but they are part of the UPCI structure and fellowship. :D If you get my drift.

All I am saying is that ANY fellowship formulated by man to operate in a secular governmental system for the sake of finances and licensing, etc., is not, in and of itself, the CHURCH and the body of Christ. It is scaffolding only. And one day all fellowships will be gone and all that wil be left is the BODY OF CHRIST. But let's not neglect our brethren who believe and preach what we do simply because they're not in the same "scaffolding" we are. :) THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING. :D

Let's all say "scaffolding".
Bro. Blume, I hane never said that other Apostolics were not a part of the body.

[mfblume]

Bro. Blume, I hane never said that other Apostolics were not a part of the body.

I know. But would you say God built all the other apostolic fellowships, too? The point is, brother, that the UPCI is not the Body of Christ. And it sounded like you said it was.

I agree God was behind it when it was formulated, but only in the sense that God is behind anyone today who wishes to preach the truth and must resgister with the government in order to be recognized as such for transferring finances overseas and licensing preachers and giving tax deductible papers to congregants. No more. And these fellowships will be gone one day.

I wish you had responded to those points I made, so you could get my point. :)

[BrotherEastman]

I know. But would you say God built all the other apostolic fellowships, too? The point is, brother, that the UPCI is not the Body of Christ. And it sounded like you said it was.

I agree God was behind it when it was formulated, but only in the sense that God is behind anyone today who wishes to preach the truth and must resgister with the government in order to be recognized as such for transferring finances overseas and licensing preachers and giving tax deductible papers to congregants. No more. And these fellowships will be gone one day.

I wish you had responded to those points I made, so you could get my point. :)
The only reason I didn't say anything about the other Apostolics was because this thread was to post good things about the UPC. Did you read the entire thread????

[mfblume]

The only reason I didn't say anything about the other Apostolics was because this thread was to post good things about the UPC. Did you read the entire thread????

Hey, I only said God did not build the UPCI as He did the church, and you said he did. That was the point between us. You sounded as though you said an organization, or even many of them, is the body of Christ. They are PART and IN the body, but God never made them as He did the Body. That is all I am saying. And saying one would die upc is putting the issue a little too much out of proper persepctive, I think.

[NewLife06]

I have been a part an independent Apostolic church for the past three years. But, I was born and raised in the upc.. I was baptized in a upc church and received the Holy Ghost at a upc campground..
Thank God for the UPC!
But much more than that, I thank God for the Apostolic Church as a whole.. I thank God for the body of Christ all over this world, including upc, aljc, paw, and every other organization and fellowship and independent work which preaches the One God Jesus' Name Acts 2:38 message! We are all the same, one group is not anymore important that any other group, we're all a part of the body!

[NewLife06]

Hey, I only said God did not build the UPCI as He did the church, and you said he did. That was the point between us. You sounded as though you said an organization, or even many of them, is the body of Christ. They are PART and IN the body, but God never made them as He did the Body. That is all I am saying. And saying one would die upc is putting the issue a little too much out of proper persepctive, I think.


I must say...















AMEN!!!! :D

[BrotherEastman]

Hey, I only said God did not build the UPCI as He did the church, and you said he did. That was the point between us. You sounded as though you said an organization, or even many of them, is the body of Christ. They are PART and IN the body, but God never made them as He did the Body. That is all I am saying. And saying one would die upc is putting the issue a little too much out of proper persepctive, I think.
I'm not sure of your point, but saying "I was UPC born and I was UPC bred and when I die, I'll be UPC dead" really shouldn't matter to you. Maybe its too much for you, but you have no idea of who I really am and where I've been, or what circumstances my life has brought me through. ONCE AGIAN, IT REALLY SHOULD NOT MATTER TO YOU.

[Inspired-Eyes]

May our Lord God continue to bless the efforts of the upci.

If it were not for my youth pastor in my youth and His wife
and even his mother and father. I would not be where I am
today. All of which were members of this good organization.
I know that it was a large part of my process and growth.
With that being said...... I must say...........

Sgs 2:4 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Sgs&chapter=2&verse=4&version=kjv#4)¶He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me (is) love.
Sgs 2:10 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Sgs&chapter=2&verse=10&version=kjv#10)¶My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
Sgs 2:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Sgs&chapter=2&verse=16&version=kjv#16)My beloved [is] mine, and I [am] his: he feedeth among the lilies.



Col 3:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Col/Col003.html#17) And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

[KJammer]

My pastor is a liscened UPC preacher but our church is not UPC. We do adhere to the UPC rules. A lot of people believe that the UPC brainwashes people and are to controling. The UPC has rules for a reason. Its to keep the worldly things out. I will fellowship with anyone who knows the truth. My church has some rules we go by and the UPC church on the other side of town has the same rules we do and plus different ones. I cannot go by the pastor in that church, I must follow the pastor that God gave me. If I see some saints at a movie theater in the mall, it is not my placed to say anything because their pastor might allow that. Even if they were saints from my church, it is still not my place to say anything.

Botton line is this. The UPC is just a organization, but its the best organization. Does the UPC save you? No it does not. There are plenty of UPC'ers that will not make it. If you know the truth, then I will fellowship with you.

Please do not talk bad about the UPC because I dont talk bad about other organizations.

If all you will fellowship with is other UPC'ers, the I will say this with out hesitation. Are you doing what God called us to do. To tell a trinitarian the truth you must fellowship with them. To tell a athiest the truth you must fellowship with them.

The UPC should be known for its love of people. Yes people do bash the UPC, I have heard alot of people in the UPC bash others as well. They are no better then those that bash us in the UPC. Instead of telling someone you are UPC, why dont you tell them you are blood baught and sealed saint of Jesus christ. Then explain why you are UPC. Dont just tell them the truth about the UPC, show them. Talk is cheap, action speak louder than words.