Should apostolics date outside their race??

[Apostolicjoe19]

:confused: I have got myself in a situation that i need some assistance in . I have been raised up not being racial .To love everyone .I meet this girl and she is mixed .I see her as a God loveing person and ignore that part.I should of asked my pastor what he thought about it and this would of never happened ,but you know that devil he'll sneek up on you with anything.So i said i'd go out with her .Then i asked someone if it was right. They strongly advised me not to that it would in the long run take me off the track of God.So i'm asking the pastors and anyone else who could help me understand this situation. P.S. I listened to the preacher. Were not going out .I obeyed the soulwatcher. but i need some advise.

[seguidordejesus]

Bro. Joe,

I am 21 yrs old, and when I was about 17, I was in your same situation. I had been raised in an environment that was not racist, although I did live in Mississippi at the time. I wanted to date this girl who was mixed (black/white), thinking that my family would not mind. Oh, my did they mind. They did not approve, but eventually I saw that it was best to follow their advice and not get myself into anything that I wasn't willing to fight for, which as it turns out, I wasn't. Bro, this girl would have gotten me off track too, but from all appearances, everything was fine. If nothing else, the comments and hurtful remarks could get you bitter in the long run and make you turn from God. I believe your pastor has told you right, but it's definitely not easy, I went through many a tough discussion trying to explain to her why we couldn't be together. Listen to your elders, they have your best interests in mind, even though I didn't understand at the time. Looking back, I am thankful for people who cared enough to point to me that things weren't going quite right.

Bless you, Brother

Ben

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!

Beloved, I really do not understand the question.
Why should you need to ask ANYONE?
Are YOUR sins remitted in the NAME of Jesus? Are hers? Are both of you of the SAME persuasion / faith? Is the ONLY difference racial? How OLD are you? Do you really think you (this is how you come across) made a mistake?
Have you heard this childrens' hymn?
"Jesus loves the little children; ALL of the children of the world. Red and yellow, black and white..."
And the carnal man would ask: 'Yeah, but would you let your brother marry one?'
So, are you going to ask the carnal man, Beloved?

Brother Villa

[ddc101]

All things are permissable but not all things are edifying.What i have to ask is that if your pastor advised against it why are you asking our advice.I would say stick with your soul watcher and buy Bro.Yohes book on Racism.There are many mixed marriages in apostolic churches.It really depends on whether you love this person and are not into it for lust etc.The heart is the main issue here.Is this the person God is choosing for you? And I would ask this of anyone considering dating and marriage no matter the race.lv sis.c

[dllong]

I am single as you all know and I'm not too bad looking in a geeky sort of way so even though I am not looking for a woman at this time, do you think for one minute if a pretty, hispanic/black/oriental single woman were to join my church that I wouldn't try anything to get her attention?

YES I WOULD!

Dave

Hades to anyone that thinks differently!

(Grinning)

[ddc101]

Dave if you love your mother marry a girl who was raised Jewish and is now oneness apostolic.It would be the thing to win them.lv sis.c

[nytxn1971]

The only 'negative' thing I would say would to be to caution you, Joe.

I do not think it is wrong to date outside your race. I have no problems with it... but there are those that do. My words of caution would be that you make sure you are aware of that and if it's not worth it to you to fight for it, don't do it. There will be enough struggles in a same race marriage. A mixed race marriage will bring even more struggle (no matter where you live... much less, GO TO CHURCH).

That would be the only thing I would warn you about. If you can handle that, God Bless ya! If you like her and enjoy her company and you pray about the situation and God does not object, go for it! :)

[Thelordisone]

Amen!!

Good post Ron.

[Apostolicjoe19]

thank all of you for your advise.I believe that i'll stick with the pastor and Bro.Ben and Bro.Ron.I was gonna do that anyway.i just wanted more opinions than just one or two.well thanks again .

[Pastor D]

My friends:
I am somewhat shocked at the responses I have just read. If the basis of the objection is spiritual that is one thing. If a person objects to dating solely on the basis of race, it is racism. No scripture justifies that it is ungodly for a person to date, marry and raise a family with a person of a different race. I know several multi-racial Apostolic couples who are very happily married and living for God. In fact one of deacons and his wife are a beautiful multi-racial family and I am proud to be godfather to their son.

Perhaps the issue should not be to discourage marriage between races, but to finally and forcefully condemn the racism that is a part of the body of Christ. We may not admit, but many Apostolic churches practice racism. A friend of mine was denied ordination because he was Puerto Rican/Philipino and was engaged to an African-American. My pastor preached for another apostolic minister and was instructed not to lay hands on the white sisters in the congregation. I sincerely believe we will have to answer to God for allowing this societal hatred for people who do not look like ourselves. You know racism is another form of worldliness!

Pastor D

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!

AMEN! Brother D...

There was a minister who liked to repeat this phrase: "No matter how often you paint it, it will still look painted." At first I did not understand what he meant; but I believe it applies to this issue.

To paraphrase the above, 'No matter how you often you smell it, it still smells like racism'.

It's the GOSPEL, Church.

Brother Villa

[nytxn1971]

A friend of mine lives in a very racially divided town. Even in the church he went to, there was that hateful spirit. He once told me about a pastor he used to have that decided he was going to expose that spirit and those that harbored it in his congregation.

In the middle of a sermon, the pastor blurted out, "There's a place for white folks to go to church, and a place for black folks to go to church!" as if to make it sound like he was implying they should be separated. And one of the worst haborers of the racist spirit jumped up and shouted "Praise the LORD! AMEN, BROTHER!"
The pastor then smiled and said "...and it's RIGHT HERE!" as he pointed to the congregation.

He didn't have to say a word. The man was exposed for what he was... a bigot who had not the Love of God.

[Jesuseeker7]

I too live in a very racist town, and especially in this area it would be very difficult for a mixed relationship to survive. I agree with the post by Bro. Ron that says that the couple MUST be willing to fight for their relationship, even more so than a same-race couple would. There will be more pressure from the outside, and in my town at least it would be even worse within the church. But I see nothing at all wrong with it. I think it is beautiful to see people who can look beyond skin color and see people for who they are inside. Christians especially should be able to do this. I agree with Pastor D that this racism is tearing our churches apart, and I believe that the Lord is not pleased with the way we treat such situations.

I am single now, but when I meet the one the Lord has chosen for me, if he happens to be African-American or Hispanic or Japanese, I don't care. I will love him and fight for our relationship because I know it will be ordained by God. On the other hand, many people in my family and in my church would not approve and some would never accept that man as part of the family if he were of a different race. I can only pray that their eyes would be opened if that situation ever arises.

God bless!

[Apostolicjoe19]

We have a multi cultured congregation ,but i guess that there is a little tension between dateing .I am young in the Lord ,and just wondered was that right . I'm the kind of person that looks on the inside and looks at the persons attitude .I look past their size ,height,looks ,and color.I believe within me my opinion is "if they have the HolyGhost and is liveing for God that there shouldn't be a problem.I don't mean to stir up something with this Post .I just wanted more opinions.Thank you all for replying.:beammeup: :angel:

[Pastor D]

Apostolicjoe:
You have no need to apologize. You have done nothing other than bring attention to an area in the body of Christ that is sorely lacking--racial harmony. The church was ordained by Jesus Christ to break down barriers sin, law, prejudice. We are either the same in God's eyes or not. The Bible declares Him to be no respecter of person. If we claim to have the whole truth and we are willing to articulate it about every other issue, why not race? I sincerely believe God will judge the church for not taking a stand within its own rank against the racism that is among us.

[seguidordejesus]

Bro. Joe,

It is true that there is much racism among us. I don't know if I said before, but in the post that I put at the beginning of this thread, and the situation that occurred, all of that happened in Mississippi, where you are from. So I know firsthand that that type of thing is not well-received. It is not WRONG, as in sin, to date or marry this girl, but PLEASE be sure before you go against Godly advice and go out on a limb....are you willing to fight for this relationship? because in Mississippi, my friend, FIGHT is what you will do...in order to have any sort of harmony within the community about your relationship (if you were to marry her) you would probably have to move to a more racially mixed environment. I lived in Jackson , by the way, and it was bad there...I can only imagine what it's like in Tylertown. Good luck, my brother, pray pray pray. Sometimes these things just aren't worth the effort. Count the cost.

[Gideon]

Pastor D well said....

Hey ApostlicJoe19 which one do you want A wife that is

1. Virtuous that is a crown to her husband

2. or one that is rottenness in your bones


Obey your Pastor after all you went to him for help; but letting other people to choose your life partner can be dangerours ; you might end up with the bad apple and misery just a thought...

[Apostolicjoe19]

I'll take # 1 bro. thanks .

[servant]

Bro Joe,
The basis of racism is so superficial, shallow and downright carnal! For anyone who professes to be a Christian and believe that races shouldn't intermarry because it's against the bible is absolutely ignorant of the Word of God. The Bible stricly forbids believers from marrying unbelievers, NOT Whites from marrying Blacks, etc.
In the OT, the Jews were forbidden from marrying Gentiles. The reason? It would eventually dilute the Jews out of existance. The holy seed would mingle with the unholy to the point where there would no longer be a people seperated and holy unto God. They would be totally worldly and ungodly after just a couple of generations.
It's the same way in the NT Church. Believers shouldn't not marry unbelievers. Why? Just imagine if all of the young people in your church married unbelievers. In just a generation or two, your church would no longer be Apostolic at all. The devil is well aware of this. It's the doctrine of Balaam spoken of in Revelation. Balaam couldn't outright curse the people of God with his mouth, so he came up with another plan. He told the Moabites to send their daughters to the Jew boys and get them to intermarry with them. Eventually this thing became a stumbling block to the Jews.
Same way with the Church today. It will eventually become a stumbling block if our young people intermarry with unbelievers. They'll produce spiritual "half-breeds" who lack the purity of doctrine and fire that the Church needs to survive.
Back to the race issue. I for one don't see a thing wrong with dating/marrying a person of another race as long as that person is Apostolic, on-fire for God. Check your motives. Is it lust? Do you look at her as a "novelty" to get attention or cause controversy or jealousy? Or are you really drawn to this person because of who she is, not what she is? What of your pastor's advice? Is his advice based on a spiritual standpoint because he's concerned that she isn't where she needs to be with God, or is it based purely on the fact that she's not of the same race as you?

Serv :)

[kirkje]

the question I have on this is "how can it get you off track with God" to me that makes no since. If she is of like faith how can we seerated the races. The next thing you would say is you should put one of left side of the church and the other of the right. Come on guys. I was raised in a family that was like that, and for awhile so was I. but when I got the holy Ghost my thinking has changed. Maybe because I have changed and now am a part of the body of christ. How can we seperated a Body just because of color. Now if the Pastor has said no maybe God gve him some insight and that is a different story but i would hope it isnot on race alone. anyways thats my 2 cents

[Cherokee]

Except we become as a little child.........Have you ever sat and watched innocent toddlers at play? Make us all like them Jesus that we can destroy the ugliness and pain and suffering such things cause to hinder the unity we could have when we become one with Him. The Master's Bouquet filled with the sweetest fragrance....Love Ya' in Jesus!!!!......Cherokee

[Thelordisone]

Nice post Sis Dever!!

[logos]

I can't believe this question is even asked of apostolics.

[Apostolicjoe19]

if you don't ask you'll never know

[ddc101]

I do not object to marriage for anybody as it is a covenant and given by God.But the main issue is not about race.The main issue is about the will of God for your individual life.If I were married to a black man I would be non productive in winning souls here.The people we have been given to work with are very prejudice.Sure they need to get over it but also I do not need to put stumbling blocks in their way.Because until they have the Holy Ghost they are not going to GET OVER it.And if my life choices are more important to me than the choices Jesus has for me for the work he has prepared then I need to reconsider my life choices.Sure you may marry anyone you choose but be prepared for the ugliness of people.Also understand that you may be limiting your work in the Kingdom of God in this life.It is here that we have to work while it is yet day.Better still I say like the apostle Paul if you can be single and give all your time to the work of God then do so.Because marriage can either make or destroy ministry.And thankfully I have Bro.Cooper.lv sis.c

[Pastor D]

Why do we take a courageous stand on every other issues other than race. Racism is just as unrighteous as fornication, adultery, alcoholism, etc. On these issues we have what amounts to zero tolerance. We do not excuse any of these behaviors by saying that is just the way people are. Are the saints in San Francisco more tolerant of homosexuality simply because the people there have more a proclivity towards this deviant behavior? The Bible says that God is no respecter of person and if anyone respects persons, they commit sin. The Bible says that by one blood God created humanity. If we are going stand on the whole truth, we must stand for all of it, including the fact that racism is unrighteous and does not express the will of God for humanity.

With the Love of the Lord,

Pastor D

[seeker]

Thank you Pastor D. Very well said. :tup:

[ddc101]

Well I agree to disagree with Pastor D.I have friends of many races.But in the deep south if you marry one get ready for ugliness to begin.Sorry I still believe your christian witness comes first and the will of God.And if you consider this racism then I am a racist.lv sis.c

[Pastor D]

Sister C:
Is racism wrong? If it is ungodly, then the church must take a stand. Why are we so ready to "stand out" as it relates to dress, life style, music, etc., but unwilling to stand out as it relates to accepting all people. You do not choose to drink simply because people in your locality do so. So how can we pretend to accept the belief that races should be divided and segregated. Racism is hatred of people solely on the basis of ethnicity and if we refuse to take a stand in order to win people to Christ, have we truly won them? I too live in the south and have lived in the north. Racism exists everywhere, just as all forms of sin. I still raise the question that how can we stand against unrighteousness and not stand against this. Jesus broke down barriers constantly and we have been called to do likewise. We cannot permit ourselves to hide behind "that's just the way things are."

Pastor D

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!


Quote:
"The people we have been given to work with are very prejudice.Sure they need to get over it but also I do not need to put stumbling blocks in their way...Sure you may marry anyone you choose but be prepared for the ugliness of people.Also understand that you may be limiting your work in the Kingdom of God in this life...Sorry I still believe your christian witness comes first and the will of God."
Beloved, can a 'Christian witness' come before the 'will of God'? As to the stumbling blocks, are they not put there to 'choose between right and wrongf'? Else why the scripture: "...I put before you a block of stumbling..."? Only the non-believers will stumble on truth; not the ones who embrace it. Now, how can ANYTHING limit the kingdom of God? Is it not, rather, that IF I do not wish to suffer for the Gospel, that will hinder the kingdom of God? Did the death of the Church's first martyr, Stephen, hinder Church growth?

Quote:
"Now if the Pastor has said no maybe God gve him some insight and that is a different story but i would hope it isnot on race alone."
Amen! IF the Pastor said no, let us hope it is because he heard from the Lord.

Quote:
"...racism is unrighteous and does not express the will of God for humanity."
Only we are called to not be "...unequally yoked..."; that is, marry outside of the faith. Scripture does not teach about marrying outside of the race.
I was very surprised to find that there STILL exists more than shreds of 'racism' in the Church. But, some Brethren refuse to grow up. One thing that persists to bother me is the delineation of race among the Oneness 'organizations'. I guess every 'race' also seeks authority of like color.

Brother Villa

[Mitzy_4God]

I am a little surprise at some of the responses. Race.....we're not all blind visually; however, some of us are color blind, and there are some of us who are spiritually blind. When you're color blind, you see people for who they are not the color of their skin. When you're spiritually blind, comprehension of why people love someone of a different race than their own is beyond a spiriitually blind person's comprehension. All they see is color and differences. God sees the heart and all blood is red! We will all stand before the same God and the same God will judge all people and all races.

We can't be ignorant. Racism does still exist in America, but we can make a difference when we act on love not color.........

[BloodBought]

Bro. I applaud you for the stance you have taken to obey them that have the rule over you. This is not a race issue, this is an issue of a shepherd that knows all the situation and knows those involed and he has the autority from God to instuct you in what will draw you closer, not just in the natural but spiritually to the calling on your life. Remember he can see further down the road than you can even imagine.

[Pastor D]

BloodBought:
I certainly agree that this brother should heed the words of his pastor. At the same time, I believe that there should be inquiry regarding the pastor's advice. It is entirely possible that the issue is about the brother and/or sister's preparation for marriage and not so much who he is marrying. The only way to clarify is for the brother to ask why? If the reasoning is not centered on race then I support the pastor's advice. If it is based on race, I question the godly motivation of such counsel.

[jdcord]

Should Apostolics date outside of their race?

Ideally? Yes.

Practically? It depends on the culture and country in which Jesus has placed the couple.

There are areas of the U.S. where it would STILL not be the wisest thing to date or (God forbid, *L*) actually marry someone of a different race. No, it is not against God's laws, nor against the laws of the state, but a pastor must be wise, and look ahead in areas where the prospective couple is looking thru rose colored glasses. A pastor cannot afford to look thru rose colored glasses. If two people of different races hooking up will cause them severe problems socially, and even in any ministry they hope to attain, then a pastor needs to give them sound, wise advice, and paint an extremely ugly picture for them of what awaits them. If he doesn't, he is failing them!

Certainly he can paint such a picture without condoning the type of behavior and attitudes that they can expect to see and feel. But paint it he must, IMO. If the couple still wishes to continue on with their plans anyway, at least they were warned.

So I guess my answer is that yes, they most certainly should be able to. But that doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do, or even a wise thing to do.

Oh, and just so ya'll know, my wife and I are of different races: she is Irish/German, and I am pure Puerto Rican. However, I am an extremely white skinned Puerto Rican (most people are shocked to find out I am hispanic, because I don't really look it), because my ancestors were upper class snobs who wouldn't have dreamed of marrying outside their class or culture (which was nothing but other extremely white skinned Puerto Ricans). My generation is the first in our family to stray from that and marry other races and classes.

However, If the situation and cultural attitudes were the same in P.R. as they had been, say, 50 years ago, marrying my wife would have been a serious issue, and would have caused me some problems back home on our Isla de Encanta (island of enchantment). Any good pastor, IMO, would have made absolutely certain that I understood the possible serious ramifications I might face for such a marraige.

[Apostolicjoe19]

i thought that threads go away after a wile . I did as my paster said and that is the bottom line.I love the ministry and don't understand all of it .but i do know that the pastor can see what we can't see.for example " realy happened" these three sis. about 15-20. allways went on a 45 minute ride from there church to a neighboring church .Well this one night the pastor said that he had a vision of three Young people getting in a wreck he seen everything except the people and the color of the vehicle . the pastor asked that the older saints get behind one young person and pray with them. this one girl got terribly sick alittle after church and could not go with the other two girls .well that mon. this girl got a call from her pastor and said that her two friends were in a wreck. and if the girl that was sick was rideing she would have her head severed.and would not be here this day .they hit a tree.and something came through the back glass and went strait were the other girl usually sits. so that is that. i got my answer and thanks for the replys .but please don't make this into an arguement. bye and God Bless

[Berean]

Hello Joe and others,

My opinion is that you should date who you desire to date, get to know who you desire to get to know, regardless of race.

Yes I said it, RACE SHOULD NOT EVEN BE AN ISSUE!

If you find that person attractive, and they are saved, I say go for it!

Sure you may be surrounded by idiots and bigots who have a fool's mentality and think that there is something wrong with 'mixin' races' (as they would say here in Mississippi). Some of these evil creatures may even be lurking in the Apostolic Church, masquerading as saints of God!

Don't let these discourage you. It may be a social struggle, but so what? The Civil Rights Movement in my home state was the 'mother' of social struggle!

But as Fredrick Douglass once said...

'Without struggle, there is no progress...'

I believe that!

If its not worth fighting for, then what is it worth?

I question any pastor that would discourage two saints from different races from dating each other if they wanted to. Now he should warn them that they may have to deal with idiots, and people who they love whom they didn't even know were idiots whose idiotic ways would be made manifest by this action.

But the pastor should in no wise discourage it.

If he does, then maybe I am wondering whether or not he as some racism that he needs the Holy Spirit to purge him of so he can be saved!

That is the good thing about Churches confronting racial issues instead of dodging them.

Confronting racial issues can bring out the devil in some saints, but this is necessary if we want them to be saved!

The sooner it is brought out, the sooner they can repent and get their heart right before God, who is no respector of persons.

Excuse me for not mincing my words here, but this had to be laid on the line, IMO.

Thanks for reading my opinion,

God is LOVE!

We teach GRACE not RACE!

Brother Berean

[danrice]

In the old testament it says not to date outside your race[them being israel] because the other races had different faiths and gods. If She is a born again holy ghost filled women she is your race,atleast in gods eyes. A gentile grafted into the vine. So pray about it and treat it like you would anyother prospective relationship.

[AnointedByHim]

Brother Joe,

You should ask your pastor why he is against it. If it is because God gave him insight, then listen to him. If it is because she is of a different race, then I would question him and the motives behind it. I personally wouldn't listen to a pastor who would say not to date someone because they are a different race. That is an ungodly answer and would be someone that I would watch and get away from because he would not be following Christ. You also have to look at your motives for wanting to date her too.

[Grooms]

Apostolicjoe19

Dear Brother, Review the Life of Moses then Solomon.

Culture and prejudice: An opinion that has been formed in a hasty way without careful thought; bias,
People show prejudice when they dislike other people they belong to anouther religion or a differnt race.

So brother Joe what's wrong with getting to know someone on a freind ship level.

I have been married now for 10yrs., and have 5 children.

I have mentors some good some not sogood, but i trust the leading and guiding of the HOLY GHOST!

You see when we stand in front of Jesus on that final judgement day, if we have not judged ourselves according to the word and by God's rightious standard we will be without excuse. So my 2cents worth is read your bible, pray and seek God's WISDOM-he gives it with measure to those who ask in faith.Develope friendships you will be a well rounded person for it. And remembe we all came from Adam, then Noah-by way of either Shem, ham ,or Japath. So color is only skin deep. Uglyness-I men Prejduice is like rottness to the bone!
grooms

[Rico]

It gets real tough to hate when them grandbabies are staring you in the face.

[AnointedByHim]

Look at Moses: He married an Ethiopian woman and look what happened when Miriam started saying something against it: she got leprosy. God blessed Moses even though he wouldn't enter the land flowing with milk and honey.

Joseph married an Egyptian woman and God blessed him and his family.

The best thing to do is to seek God about this and ask Him to reveal to you, what He wants you to do. If you do this, then God will not lead you wrong. Another thing, ask God to block it, if it is not His will for you or if you are getting ready to make a mistake. I did that and God kept me from marrying the wrong person.

Another thing, there are some people in church that will be against it for nothing more than race. I did date someone from a different race and there was too much of a demand put on me to be able to keep seeing her. Let me give you some of my experience in this situation:

I went out with a Apostolic lady of a different race and she was wonderful to be around. We got along great at church and when we went out. I use to go over to her house and visit with her and her family. We enjoyed each others company. The problem came when her dad wanted me to work 2 jobs and give her the kind of life that she is use to, basically to give her material things.

At first, I was against it but then I decided to go ahead and get 2 jobs to make a point. So, I got 2 jobs and after I got those 2 paychecks, I dropped her, stop going to church, and starting going out on the weekends by myself. I got the point across and I didn't have much to do with the family or her anymore, but I did keep on taping the church services because I enjoyed it.

After a while, her dad asked me if I would ask her out. I said, "God has someone for me and to take another woman out would be like cheating." He said, "You could take her out as a friend." I said, "I can't."

After that, they left the Apostolic church and started going to a trinitarian church.

[pdavis]

Amen Bro. Dave - I believe the Bible states that Miriam and Aaron were upset with Moses because of his Ethiopian wife. Some feel that of course she may have been black because the Bible also states "can the Ethiopian change the color of his skin?", but of course there are other views also. I was raised in Texas and it took pastoring in NY to acquaint me with mixed couples and eventually I discovered that in my heart I can see no wrong. Racism is absolutely wrong in Gods eyes. I have told my daughters that they are welcome to marry a black apostolic man as long as she loves him and they are living for God. Or the man can be hispanic, indian, asian. But he must be apostolic.

However, I have counseled couples that wanted to marry to realize that there are at times social consequences, though not as bad in some areas as in others. But I believe you can say the same thing when the rich girl marries the poor man. A couple must decide with prayer but should not fear the idea of intermarriage as referring to race - only intermarriage outside of the church should be avoided.

Bro. Davis

My friends:
I am somewhat shocked at the responses I have just read. If the basis of the objection is spiritual that is one thing. If a person objects to dating solely on the basis of race, it is racism. No scripture justifies that it is ungodly for a person to date, marry and raise a family with a person of a different race. I know several multi-racial Apostolic couples who are very happily married and living for God. In fact one of deacons and his wife are a beautiful multi-racial family and I am proud to be godfather to their son.

Perhaps the issue should not be to discourage marriage between races, but to finally and forcefully condemn the racism that is a part of the body of Christ. We may not admit, but many Apostolic churches practice racism. A friend of mine was denied ordination because he was Puerto Rican/Philipino and was engaged to an African-American. My pastor preached for another apostolic minister and was instructed not to lay hands on the white sisters in the congregation. I sincerely believe we will have to answer to God for allowing this societal hatred for people who do not look like ourselves. You know racism is another form of worldliness!

Pastor D

[ddc101]

Brother Davis,
I know some ministries that flip over this issue and actually use the word to teach that the word of God is against it.They use the scriptures from the old testament.They say it is perversion.I say that anyone can not be the right person for you regardless of race.Let God decide.He knows whats best.Some people are just raised too different to get along.lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

I think every one should just stay with their own kind! :realmad:

[Sheepish]

Wow. This is so not an issue for me. Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, eh? I can't believe some of the comments on this thread. They truly stink of racism. Hey, let's all pray about it. Ask Jesus to reveal His perfect will to us in word and in Spirit. Pray in faith. Then let's all meet back here in a few months to repent!
God bless you ALL!

[OneGodDivine]

I believe that there is only one race, the human race, everything else is pigmentation or the lack of it. My Pastor is black his wife is a German (white). My Pastor visited the states year before last, some churches (Apostolic) he visited in Tylor Texas made him feel unconfortable but in south Texas they gave him full freedom behind the pulpit. I myself am white but I love my Pastor more than my biological father or any other step dad I have had in my life. My Pastor was a young man during the 50s and 60s. He remembers the race wars and the Klan. My wife who is also German cannot understand why there are Apostolics or any other form of christian for that matter who would look down upon or even condemn a mixed marriage. And frankly neither do I.

[Truthseeker]

I believe that there is only one race, the human race, everything else is pigmentation or the lack of it. My Pastor is black his wife is a German (white). My Pastor visited the states year before last, some churches (Apostolic) he visited in Tylor Texas made him feel unconfortable in south Texas they gave him full freedom behind the pulpit. I myself am white but I love my Pastor more than my biological father or any other step dad I have had in my life. My Pastor was a young man during the 50s and 60s. He remembers the race wars and the Klan. My wife who is also German cannot understand why there are Apostolics or any other form of christian for that matter who would look down upon or even condemn a mixed marriage. And frankly neither do I.


It's not so much their adainst mixed marriages, but more against against white and black marriages. It's mostly a white/black thing.

[OneGodDivine]

It's not so much their adainst mixed marriages, but more against against white and black marriages. It's mostly a white/black thing.
I say Its no ones business but your wifes, yours and Gods. Unfortunately America the land of the Free the Home of the Brave has to a large part looked more like Pre-Mandella South Africa than what it should be and the Church has no place messing in a Holy Matrimony between a Man and a Woman.

[In His Service]

Bro. Rob,
Actually from where I live I find that it is not mostly a black/white thing. You have a very strong indian/hispanic prejudice against those groups marrying. The feelings of racism with these groups here, are probably more strong than the feelings of many of the black/white issue. In our area for many years who did not see mixed marriages of any race, but very limited.For years there was only a couple of couples you would see out together. That has changed drastically within all race groups in our area.

I feel like someone said earlier, we are all one race, the human race. The only thing we in church need to worry about is marrying in the faith. We live on the other side of the tracks, as some would say. We live along side about every race that is in our area. Every side by side, looking out for each other in most cases.

God sees the heart, not the color of the skin in every one.

Be blessed
Bro. Timothy

[In His Service]

I think every one should just stay with their own kind! :realmad:

:goof: :banana: :goof:

[jdcord]

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:9-11
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

In Christ there are no more races. Anyone who freaks out about people marrying someone of another race isn't putting on the mind of Christ, they are putting on the mind of racism.

Of course, I suppose others could use Galatians 3:28 to claim that since there are no more male or female in Christ, that it's ok to marry someone of the same sex. :rolleyes: Oy Ve.

[Truthseeker]

Bro. Rob,
Actually from where I live I find that it is not mostly a black/white thing. You have a very strong indian/hispanic prejudice against those groups marrying. The feelings of racism with these groups here, are probably more strong than the feelings of many of the black/white issue. In our area for many years who did not see mixed marriages of any race, but very limited.For years there was only a couple of couples you would see out together. That has changed drastically within all race groups in our area.

I feel like someone said earlier, we are all one race, the human race. The only thing we in church need to worry about is marrying in the faith. We live on the other side of the tracks, as some would say. We live along side about every race that is in our area. Every side by side, looking out for each other in most cases.

God sees the heart, not the color of the skin in every one.

Be blessed
Bro. Timothy


I was refering more withen the predominantly white churches.

[BrotherBallard]

I think every one should just stay with their own kind!

Bro. Rob you’re hilarious!!!


Well this is definitely an interesting forum, I don't usually read ENTIRE threads but this one had piqued my interest!

This is a hot topic for me because of my past!

I have been in/around Pentecost/UPCI/Apostolic, since 1978. If I heard it once I've heard it a thousand times, "I'm not racist, I love Black people, but I don’t' think blacks and whites should marry...." This is coming from those within the UPCI organization. In fact the former Church I attended, (by the way it was predominately white) was dead set against "inter-racial marriages," but the Pastor married a white lady and a Hispanic man??? Sit on that for a while! What it boiled down to is black and whites should not get married, because of skin color. That is so wrong!

I noticed that people mentioned Moses and the Ethiopian woman, and it was stated that Jews were not suppose to marry outside their race. Now lets take a look at the lineage of Jesus, one ancestor of Jesus was a Harlot, not only was she a Harlot but she was a Gentile, it was Rahab!!!

I live in the South, Ft. Worth to be exact, and if you were to walk into our Church you would notice something, we are a "mixed" congregation. We have blacks, Hispanics, whites, Phillipino's, Sri Lankins, etc. We have Black and white couples, Hispanic and white, black and Asian, and etc. Racism stops at the door it is not allowed in our Church!!!

If you want to go by Biblical standards on Race, there are only 2 races. 1. Jews 2. Gentiles. That's it.

Well since I'm on a soap box, someone told me once (an older family member to be exact), "...I feel God has called me to witness to and win black people..." I came back with this reply, "...no God didn't call you to witness and to win Black people, God called you to win Souls, it doesn't matter what color their skin is!!!"

Racism or reverse Racism is so ingrained in people. It is passed down from generation to generation. With the mercy and grace of God, overcoming racism can be Victorious!!!

The question that started this thread is "Should Apostolics date outside of their Race?"
In my opinion you should take everything into consideration, whether it's the same race or not. Seek cousel before you get married. Remember the person your dating now and contemplating marriage with, will be the person you will be living with for the rest of your life! Make sure your in the Will of God!!!

In His Name!!!

[Truthseeker]

I have been in/around Pentecost/UPCI/Apostolic, since 1978. If I heard it once I've heard it a thousand times, "I'm not racist, I love Black people, but I don’t' think blacks and whites should marry...." This is coming from those within the UPCI organization. In fact the former Church I attended, (by the way it was predominately white) was dead set against "inter-racial marriages," but the Pastor married a white lady and a Hispanic man??? Sit on that for a while! What it boiled down to is black and whites should not get married, because of skin color. That is so wrong!

Exactly, There not so much against mixed marriages but balck white marriages. I know of a Pastor who was against it, but married white and latino. Alot of it boils down to they don't want the black men marrying their daughters. This one of the main reason of the split shortly after the azusa era. They figured if they continue to have interacial worship next will be marriages. Some just haven't gotten over it.

But let's not get stuck on the negative, ALOT! of Ministers and saints are seeing the errors of the past. We can't put all in the same basket.

[BrotherBallard]

But let's not get stuck on the negative, ALOT! of Ministers and saints are seeing the errors of the past. We can't put all in the same basket.You are so right Bro.!!! The tide is changing, slowly, but it's changing. People are questioning thoughts, ideas, traditions, etc., that have been passed down from generation to generation, not just on this issue but several non-salvific issues, that have been taught it's this way or no way. God is working on our men and ladies, in miraculous ways!

The focus now is souls! Pr. 11:30 "...and he that winneth souls is wise."

In His Name!!!

[ddc101]

Hi Rob,
Actually having many black and mixed friends I am told the big stigma among the blacks that they are hard against a black lady marrying a white man because in slavery times what the families had to endure at the hand of the white masters,overseers etc.Prejudice is worldly but I understand that folks are coming to church with many things they need deliverance from.For some its cigarettes,for others fornication and others prejudice.We just need to love those old prejudice people until they change their minds.I know what it is in my own life.I am cajun french.When I travel around folks think I am from another country because of my accent.And I have been treated ugly and called the n word.Especially since I have such kinky hair.I am not even part black.But if I was I would want to be dark and pretty like many of my black girlfriends.I will never be ashamed of who I am.God made me exactly like he wanted and I am ever so glad.I have many folks in my family that are mixed including nephews and nieces.They are treated so ugly that is why I told my brother in law that its just WORLDLY thats all.He likes that term because he's not saved and its the first he ever heard of it.lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

Hi Rob,
Actually having many black and mixed friends I am told the big stigma among the blacks that they are hard against a black lady marrying a white man because in slavery times what the families had to endure at the hand of the white masters,overseers etc.Prejudice is worldly but I understand that folks are coming to church with many things they need deliverance from.For some its cigarettes,for others fornication and others prejudice.We just need to love those old prejudice people until they change their minds.I know what it is in my own life.I am cajun french.When I travel around folks think I am from another country because of my accent.And I have been treated ugly and called the n word.Especially since I have such kinky hair.I am not even part black.But if I was I would want to be dark and pretty like many of my black girlfriends.I will never be ashamed of who I am.God made me exactly like he wanted and I am ever so glad.I have many folks in my family that are mixed including nephews and nieces.They are treated so ugly that is why I told my brother in law that its just WORLDLY thats all.He likes that term because he's not saved and its the first he ever heard of it.lv sis.c

It boils downs to the women. Black men don't want black women with white men, even though they might chase white women themsleves. And white men don't want white women with blacks. It's a little worse if the women is a knock out. We have had stronger looks from black men, then anyone else, but for the most part we haven't had no trouble. Everyone generally looks at interacial couples, even we do.

Not only those coming need deliverence from prejudice,but those in the church as well, including the ministry. It's just not preached on much.

[ddc101]

Brother let em look.Marriage is a covenant and to be respected.amen.lv sis.c

[Pastor D]

Praise the Lord everybody!
I am excited to see so many stand up for the truth here as it relates to the church and race relations. Too many believers have been infected with this spirit and no one had responded to it. A number of pastors have been afraid to speak up regarding and were in fact infected with this spirit of racism themselves. To be prefectly honest there can be just as much racism in predmoninantly black congregations as in predominantly white congregations. I have heard ministers make stereotypical statements about other ethnicities. We must begin to see people as people--with souls that need the gospel. I am praying for the day when people just want to be in a church where the word is preached. Currently, I pastor a predominantly African-American congregation in a town historically known for its racism. We are however drawing a limited number of white and hope to eventually reach out to the Hispanics of our city. Please pray that all the barriers will be broken.

Pastor D

[ddc101]

Pastor D,
You mean you aren't going to start paying white folks to come to service?
I saw that in a time magazine article where this african american minister was offering white folks money to come to worship at his mostly black church.
I promise you that if you did all the bum would come out of the woodworks.Hey this might work for us here in Kaplan...lol.Considering how many moochers we have come across....

Anyway on the serious side I have friends who pastor a church in an area that is seems they have that same situation as you.Sadly people in that community are very close minded regarding race.You hear stuff like,"Oh yeah my cousin got religon and married a black man." etc.Whatever excuse they have to down the church and say ugly things I suppose to justify keeping the devil they have become so fond of petting.lv sis.c

[Pastor D]

Sis C:
You are so right. Amazingly enough, a large number of white people have come to our church, been visibly and heavily blessed by the anointing in our services. They compliment the music ministry, the word and everything else about the church, but most have been unwilling to commit themselves to the church. I will not give up. The Lord has given me a vision for a multi-cultural church and I know that it will come to pass. Thanks for the encouragement and no, I will not pay white people to come, but I might consider giving them a 20% rebate on their tithes. LOL
:sb:

[In His Service]

I think that one thing that is not taught upon much of the time to the church is this. We don't just need the attitude of multi races in our church, but we need that in our daily lives. Many times you see a multi ethnic church service, but away from the church the groups then go back to fellowship with just thier ethnic group.

The key is really breaking many of the cultural traditions of seperation in order for our lives to take on the mind of Christ in our daily walk with others.

Be blessed,
Bro. Timothy

[BrotherBallard]

Bro. Timothy,

That is so right!!! In other words we need to live like Christians, even outside the 4 walls of the Church, and that includes predjudice. People CAN overcome predjudice through the Blood of Jesus! God can deliver from drugs, alcohol, fornication, racism and a multitude of Sin!!!

In His Name!!!

[ddc101]

PastorD you have not pastored until you come to South Louisiana and deal with this culture.Brother it will make you say uncle I promise.The sin is so deep that you need a Holy Ghost straw to stick up through the muck to get some air.Lord help us.But it keeps me on my knees for sure.I could care less the color or race or culture of the people who come just Lord send some who will be faithful and love the brethren.lv sis.c

[Troy E. Victory]

I have noticed in our area, a lot of mixed dating is done initially for shock value. After the shock wears off, many of the relationships wind down.

I wonder about the motive of any pastor who discouraged the black/white dating. The main concern of any dating relationship is if it takes you from your relationship with God, not what society thinks about the skin color of the person you are dating. We do need to let mixed couples know what to expect from society. We also need to let them know how to deal with the negative attitudes. The best thing we can do is support their decision.

Skin color makes no difference to me.
What I want my kids to look for in a relationship is:
1. Someone with a strong relationship with God.
2. Someone with common interests.
3. Someone with lots of $$$$ (just kidding).
In our area, it's usually white girl/black guy dating that goes on.
My wife and I talked about this trend and how we are going to handle it if my daughter decides to date a black guy.
The first thing we do is to sit down with both of them and determine if they are serious about a relationship, or is it more to get under people's skin. If they are serious about dating, we will let them know a lot of people won't like it, but as long as their motives for dating are right, they will have our support. If they want to date to stir up negative emotions in people, my wife and I will put a stop to it. (I don't think I'll have to deal with this problem because my daughter is forbidden to date while I'm breathing.)

If two people from different races on on fire for God date, you have a responsibilty to support them. Anything less than support amounts to racism at worst, apathy at best.

[Truthseeker]

I have noticed in our area, a lot of mixed dating is done initially for shock value. After the shock wears off, many of the relationships wind down.

I wonder about the motive of any pastor who discouraged the black/white dating. The main concern of any dating relationship is if it takes you from your relationship with God, not what society thinks about the skin color of the person you are dating. We do need to let mixed couples know what to expect from society. We also need to let them know how to deal with the negative attitudes. The best thing we can do is support their decision.

Skin color makes no difference to me.
What I want my kids to look for in a relationship is:
1. Someone with a strong relationship with God.
2. Someone with common interests.
3. Someone with lots of $$$$ (just kidding).
In our area, it's usually white girl/black guy dating that goes on.
My wife and I talked about this trend and how we are going to handle it if my daughter decides to date a black guy.
The first thing we do is to sit down with both of them and determine if they are serious about a relationship, or is it more to get under people's skin. If they are serious about dating, we will let them know a lot of people won't like it, but as long as their motives for dating are right, they will have our support. If they want to date to stir up negative emotions in people, my wife and I will put a stop to it. (I don't think I'll have to deal with this problem because my daughter is forbidden to date while I'm breathing.)

If two people from different races on on fire for God date, you have a responsibilty to support them. Anything less than support amounts to racism at worst, apathy at best.


Some do date interacial for the wrong motives. Because it's different, trendy, forbiddin and so on.....

Some get into a relationship because of a persons money, prestige, career and so on... Which is wrong to.

Just like any relationship the motive has to be right.

As far as my daughter, I don't believe in dating so I don't got to worry about it.

[ddc101]

I also do not believe in dating but betrothel.lv sis.c

[milady]

I have no problem with people dating or marrying outside theri race. God made all people the same. Skin color makes no difference.

[ddc101]

Dating outside of their race? Hey we can hardly get some folks to come to church outside their race much less date.This is the south.People have actually said they would not come to church here because we are a mixed congregation.So be it I say.Amen stay away and keep the nasty spirit with you.No one is going to heaven if they cannot love the brethren.I wonder what the look will be on somes faces when they view Jesus Christ who was never a blue eyed blond.lv sis.c

[Luv~N~Jesus]

Dating outside of their race? Hey we can hardly get some folks to come to church outside their race much less date.This is the south.People have actually said they would not come to church here because we are a mixed congregation.So be it I say.Amen stay away and keep the nasty spirit with you.No one is going to heaven if they cannot love the brethren.I wonder what the look will be on somes faces when they view Jesus Christ who was never a blue eyed blond.lv sis.c

Beard and all!! :bow:

[Truthseeker]

Beard and all!! :bow:

Wait one cotton pickin minute! Jesus wasn't clean shaved?

[Deonna]

Man looks on the outside (skin color, social standing, etc) but GOD looks on the heart.

I see nothing wrong with it.

BTW Bro Rob, nope, Jesus wasn't clean shaven *shock* :yeah:

[Truthseeker]

Man looks on the outside (skin color, social standing, etc) but GOD looks on the heart.

I see nothing wrong with it.

BTW Bro Rob, nope, Jesus wasn't clean shaven *shock* :yeah:


Well, I guess he wouldn't have been allowed to preach in alot of churches then. He didn't keep the standard. :rolleyes:

[ddc101]

Bro.Rob,
that is in todays churchs because it was not considered rebelliion in his day.To be clean shaven or round off the corners of your beard were rebellion in the times of Christ.lv sis.c

[Luv~N~Jesus]

Bro.Rob,
that is in todays churchs because it was not considered rebelliion in his day.


....To be clean shaven or round off the corners of your beard were rebellion in the times of Christ.lv sis.c

So if a man grows a beard today, exactly what is he rebelling against?? You can use that same argument really to say that women wearing long hair doesn't apply today because we are in a different culture. A witch once told me that they believed there was power in the womans hair and they used it in thier ceremonies for various things and it was a very sacred symbol to them. So, if we used that line of reasoning then wouldn't it be rebellion if we had long hair? No. I see nothing rebellious about looking like my Jesus.

I grew up in a different time though and I know I don't fully understand the impact of the hippie era but really for those in my generation, it is not comprehended how a preacher can preach against beard knowing Jesus and the great prophets (most of them) and priests had them. :wah:

[Luv~N~Jesus]

Well, I guess he wouldn't have been allowed to preach in alot of churches then. He didn't keep the standard. :rolleyes:

yes, how sad. I have witnessed this first hand to someone very dear to me. My Dad, and it is very hurtful.

[Truthseeker]

Maybe we should encourage facial hair since most politicians are cleaned shaved and we don't want to be associated with that do we? Most ministers could fit right in with the politicians. :shrug:

[Truthseeker]

So if a man grows a beard today, exactly what is he rebelling against?? You can use that same argument really to say that women wearing long hair doesn't apply today because we are in a different culture. A witch once told me that they believed there was power in the womans hair and they used it in thier ceremonies for various things and it was a very sacred symbol to them. So, if we used that line of reasoning then wouldn't it be rebellion if we had long hair? No. I see nothing rebellious about looking like my Jesus.

I grew up in a different time though and I know I don't fully understand the impact of the hippie era but really for those in my generation, it is not comprehended how a preacher can preach against beard knowing Jesus and the great prophets (most of them) and priests had them. :wah:

It wasn't rebellion then nor is it now.

[Deonna]

Aren't we just a tad :nt: ? :laugh:

[ddc101]

Amen! lv sis.c

[Whosoever Will]

I don't like it, I don't advise it, and I don't promote it, but I can't find any scripture against it either. God has been dealing with my heart regarding this subject. I am going to hold my peace for now and let God continue to instruct me.

[Truthseeker]

I don't like it, I don't advise it, and I don't promote it, but I can't find any scripture against it either. God has been dealing with my heart regarding this subject. I am going to hold my peace for now and let God continue to instruct me.


Well, it's a start.

[AnointedByHim]

There is nothing wrong with dating or even marrying anyone of a different race, unless the Lord tells you not to. Then, if you go against what He has said, it will be downright disobedience.

[ShiningEpistle]

I totally agree with AnointedbyHim.

[Bro. Jason Odde]

Praise the Lord everyone!!!!!!!!!
I have been raised in the Church, Saved in the Church, and MARRIED in the Church. My wife is mixed. To make a long story short. I remember assuming that I would not be able to Date my wife. I talked to my Pastor. His responce was that if he were to keep me from seeing this Girl on the sole reason of her race, that he would NOT be in juxtoposition with Gods word. This is not a Bible issue, but a racism issue. I have spent MUCH time studying this and have NEVER been able to come up with a reason, outside of racism, that this would be relevant to my walk with God. I do understand that I do not live in the south. And YES I have experianced REVERSE Racism. But I LOVE MY WIFE for who she is. Not what other people think. When some one black gets the holy ghost, do you say to another.....A Black man got the Holy Ghost the other night? Do you do the same for WHITES? Do you say "Three White people got the holy ghost?"
My first child we'll be arriving in a few short days.......I pray to God that somehow these barriers we'll be lifted in the Apostolic Church. I do not want to have to explain this one to her. THAT My Freinds would be a Sad Day!
God Bless Bro Jason Odden

[searching]

When some one black gets the holy ghost, do you say to another.....A Black man got the Holy Ghost the other night? Do you do the same for WHITES? Do you say "Three White people got the holy ghost?"

I just want to interject something here because I feel that it was implied by the writer that to use such language is somehow racist. If not, I apologize in advance. I am white, so when I am talking about someone white to another person who is white, the implication is that who I am talking about is also white. If I am referring to another person of any other race, I will mention that as well.

The same goes for if I'm talking to someone about a female friend of mine. I'm female, and if I say, "I was talking to a good friend of mine the other day", the implication is that the friend is also female.

I don't think it's racist to refer to another person being of a different race. Everyone does it. I have black friends who talk to me, and will mention things like, "I was working with this white girl the other day and I was able to witness to her". I take no offense, but had she not told me the girl was white, I would have assumed she was referring to a black girl. Does it matter? Maybe not, but if it doesn't matter, then it isn't a big deal if someone does do it, right? (rhetorical question)

I think that some people have taken it overboard in referring to another person's race. My son is 12, and he refuses to refer to a black person as being black. He calls them "African American", and that's ok, but I asked him why he does that. He said he thinks it's rude to call them black. Where he got that idea I don't know. Have I missed something? Can someone give me a clue here like Bro. Rob or Sis. Wenona?

I attended a church a couple years ago and they have a Hispanic church there as well, most who don't speak English, but they attend and wear a headset to hear the translation. Me, in my apparent stupidity and innocent ignorance, said to a white woman who also attended there, "It's wonderful that there is such a big Mexican population here", or something to that effect. She got this look of horror on her face and told me that "we don't call them Mexicans, we refer to them as Hispanics so they don't get offended". I was like HUH? I have Mexican friends and Puerto Rican friends and they never told me they were offended if I called them Mexican or Puerto Rican.

Perhaps I need lessons on being a little more politically correct and I wouldn't mind someone teaching me cause I certainly wouldn't want to ever offend anyone. And this post is WAAAAAAY longer than I anticipated and perhaps even a bit :nt: Sorry.

Me...

[ddc101]

okay this seems wierd to me but I do say black.I am not offended by it nor is anyone else I know.It never seems to bother anyone unless they are touchy.lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

okay this seems wierd to me but I do say black.I am not offended by it nor is anyone else I know.It never seems to bother anyone unless they are touchy.lv sis.c

I call my wife chocolate drop! :yeah: :spin: :yeah: :sb:

[Truthseeker]

I think that some people have taken it overboard in referring to another person's race. My son is 12, and he refuses to refer to a black person as being black. He calls them "African American", and that's ok, but I asked him why he does that. He said he thinks it's rude to call them black. Where he got that idea I don't know. Have I missed something? Can someone give me a clue here like Bro. Rob or Sis. Wenona?


It depends on the person. Here's the thing why some don't like the term black. What is a black person? They come in various shades and colors. Some lite, semi brown and some midnight black.

The main reason is this:

When you see a hispanic why don't you call them browns?

When you see an Asian why don't you call them lites or olive colored?

When we know of someone from Italy descent we call them Italians not browns.

When we we know of someone from Mexico descent we call them mexicans not browns.

When we know of someone from Asia we might call them asians or orientals not lite brown.

So some of African descent prefer to be called African or african american not black.

[searching]

It depends on the person. Here's the thing why some don't like the term black. What is a black person? They come in various shades and colors. Some lite, semi brown and some midnight black.

The main reason is this:

When you see a hispanic why don't you call them browns?

When you see an Asian why don't you call them lites or olive colored?

When we know of someone from Italy descent we call them Italians not browns.

When we we know of someone from Mexico descent we call them mexicans not browns.

When we know of someone from Asia we might call them asians or orientals not lite brown.

So some of African descent prefer to be called African or african american not black.

But Bro. Rob, I'm white, yet I'm not white. When I was born I was blue. Doc slapped me bum and I was pink. When I'm sick I'm green. When I'm embarrassed I'm red. When I get hurt, I'm black and blue. My normal color is more of a peach. I'M NOT WHITE, YET NON-WHITES CALL ME THAT!!!!


I have yet to have a non-white person call me American, or German-American. How would they know? I could be Russian, Scandinavian, French, Scottish (yes, I have reddish hair, look at the pic), or anyone of European decent, Australian, or even Spanish! I need respect Bro, and so do you!!!

Ok, tongue is being taken out of cheek because I done chewed it up in this post. WARNING: DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS No offense intended toward anyone, I'm just having a little fun with Bro. Rob, my buddy, my pal! DISCLAIMER ENDED :goof:

Me...

[ddc101]

from some of the things I have been called black would be a nice change.lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

But Bro. Rob, I'm white, yet I'm not white. When I was born I was blue. Doc slapped me bum and I was pink. When I'm sick I'm green. When I'm embarrassed I'm red. When I get hurt, I'm black and blue. My normal color is more of a peach. I'M NOT WHITE, YET NON-WHITES CALL ME THAT!!!!


I have yet to have a non-white person call me American, or German-American. How would they know? I could be Russian, Scandinavian, French, Scottish (yes, I have reddish hair, look at the pic), or anyone of European decent, Australian, or even Spanish! I need respect Bro, and so do you!!!

Ok, tongue is being taken out of cheek because I done chewed it up in this post. WARNING: DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS No offense intended toward anyone, I'm just having a little fun with Bro. Rob, my buddy, my pal! DISCLAIMER ENDED :goof:

Me...


The white folks are considered the majority or let's say it's a white nation. As time went on folks from african where utilized :goof: for work. Folks from other countries migrated over from mexico, Ireland, Italy and so on...

I guess it depends on what we outwardly see in a person. If someone has a strong Ireland accent we would call them Irish. If they fit in here and are americanized we would just call them white. Since it's easy to see one is from Mexico we call them mexican, same with asians. If you had a strong germen accent people would call you germen. It depends on what is recognized by people what they will call people.

It's basically the minorities that are refered to by their descent.

So do you call hispanics/mexicans browns? if not why?

Do you refer to Asians as olive colored or lites? Why not?

[ddc101]

Call me gone....no more heartaches ....call me gone ......lv sis.c

[searching]

The white folks are considered the majority or let's say it's a white nation. As time went on folks from african where utilized :goof: for work. Folks from other countries migrated over from mexico, Ireland, Italy and so on...

I guess it depends on what we outwardly see in a person. If someone has a strong Ireland accent we would call them Irish. If they fit in here and are americanized we would just call them white. Since it's easy to see one is from Mexico we call them mexican, same with asians. If you had a strong germen accent people would call you germen. It depends on what is recognized by people what they will call people.

It's basically the minorities that are refered to by their descent.

So do you call hispanics/mexicans browns? if not why?

Do you refer to Asians as olive colored or lites? Why not?

LOL! Bro, ever call a Cuban person, Mexican? Ever call a Mexican, Puerto Rican? All three of those races look alike, but they aren't, and it would be easy to offend one of the races by calling them another, which is why they are referred to as Hispanic, or so I am told.

You said, "It's basically the minorities that are referred to by their descent", however, that's true in every country, but white people aren't the majority in every country. There are white people who are natives of Africa, aren't there? Aren't they considered African also?

TBH, I think it unAmericanizes black people to call them African, or African-American, just as if you called me German-American. I may have the German lineage, but I'm American through and through. Perhaps it's because I've always been in the "majority" and I see things differently, and I certainly mean no disrespect to anyone of another race, I assure you, nor am I intending to be demeaning in any way, and I hope you don't see that in my posts. I didn't mean to post all this, cause I was just having fun and now it seems to be a little more serious than I intended. So I think I'm going to stop as to not get offensive. :goof:

I love my brothers and sisters from only one race...the human race.

Me...

[Truthseeker]

LOL! Bro, ever call a Cuban person, Mexican? Ever call a Mexican, Puerto Rican? All three of those races look alike, but they aren't, and it would be easy to offend one of the races by calling them another, which is why they are referred to as Hispanic, or so I am told.

You said, "It's basically the minorities that are referred to by their descent", however, that's true in every country, but white people aren't the majority in every country. There are white people who are natives of Africa, aren't there? Aren't they considered African also?

TBH, I think it unAmericanizes black people to call them African, or African-American, just as if you called me German-American. I may have the German lineage, but I'm American through and through. Perhaps it's because I've always been in the "majority" and I see things differently, and I certainly mean no disrespect to anyone of another race, I assure you, nor am I intending to be demeaning in any way, and I hope you don't see that in my posts. I didn't mean to post all this, cause I was just having fun and now it seems to be a little more serious than I intended. So I think I'm going to stop as to not get offensive. :goof:

I love my brothers and sisters from only one race...the human race.

Me...

I didn't think your were offensive at all. I'm not even saying I think they should be called african american, I was just presenting that side of the arguement, that's all. I call them black myself.

[searching]

Thanks Bro, you did clarify some things for me. I still love ya too!

I cannot get over those kids of yours man! But I am thankful they take after their mommy. LOL! :jk:

Me...

[ddc101]

What race you are doesn't matter.What matters is that you are born again and of the tribe of Jesus.lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

What race you are doesn't matter.What matters is that you are born again and of the tribe of Jesus.lv sis.c


Amen. there's good book on the subject called "One Blood"

[ZACCINYAK]

I just wanted to comment on what a nice looking family you have. I am glad to see mixed race couples in the church. Of all the places in the world where people should be free from prjudice... the church should be a place where all peoples of all races can come and stand on an equal FOUNDATION... JESUS CHRIST.

Bro. Wes Long

[InJesusName]

A friend of mine lives in a very racially divided town. Even in the church he went to, there was that hateful spirit. He once told me about a pastor he used to have that decided he was going to expose that spirit and those that harbored it in his congregation.

In the middle of a sermon, the pastor blurted out, "There's a place for white folks to go to church, and a place for black folks to go to church!" as if to make it sound like he was implying they should be separated. And one of the worst haborers of the racist spirit jumped up and shouted "Praise the LORD! AMEN, BROTHER!"
The pastor then smiled and said "...and it's RIGHT HERE!" as he pointed to the congregation.

He didn't have to say a word. The man was exposed for what he was... a bigot who had not the Love of God.


Thats Sweet!!!

[Marie]

:banana: God is good!

[Truthseeker]

I just wanted to comment on what a nice looking family you have. I am glad to see mixed race couples in the church. Of all the places in the world where people should be free from prjudice... the church should be a place where all peoples of all races can come and stand on an equal FOUNDATION... JESUS CHRIST.

Bro. Wes Long


Thanks, she makes me look good

[ddc101]

I traveled to another state and heard such things as christian people not wanting their daughters to even date oriental or spainish people.That to me was wierd because I was not raised prejudice.My parents had friends over to dinner of many different cultures.In fact I was raised in a big Italian Catholic community.I was shocked as an adult to see all the Italian names and realize I went to school and played with these people daily and never realized culturely we were different.That is why Jesus says we need to become as little children.They aren't born with prejudices.Society and families pass that spirit on.Eight were saved by water....Noah,Mrs.Noah,Shem,Ham,Japeth,Mrs.Shem,Mr s.Ham,Mrs.Japeth
Now if we believe the word as we say we do then we know that these are the folks who repopulated the earth.So who is related to who? lv sis.c

[Marie]

I never could understand predudice people. With the size of our family, we have most every nationality linked in some way. I grew up with Chinese, African, German, Canadian indian....aunts, uncles and cousins. As for me, Dad calls us "Hines 57" LOL It makes me bristle when when I hear rasist jokes or someone putting down another race.

As for dating, we are all one nation, all God's children. Just because are skin is a different color, doesn't mean we are different inside. We all share the blood of Jesus. BTW our Father is a Jew...

Why can't we see each other through God's eyes, instead of looking through fleshly eyes??

[jhlent]

Thanks, she makes me look good OH my LORD, how does she get anything else done in her life........

That is more than a FULL time job......



hahahahahaha.............

[AnointedByHim]

I never could understand predudice people.

As for dating, we are all one nation, all God's children. Just because are skin is a different color, doesn't mean we are different inside. We all share the blood of Jesus. BTW our Father is a Jew...

Why can't we see each other through God's eyes, instead of looking through fleshly eyes??

A lot of people is racist in one form or another and that includes Apostolics. The difference is that Apostolics won't admit that they are racist.

[Truthseeker]

Why can't everyone just stay with their own kind! The animals do! :yeah:

[Abigail4476]

A lot of people is racist in one form or another and that includes Apostolics. The difference is that Apostolics won't admit that they are racist.
In order for your statement to be accurate and nonprejudicial, it should be phrased as follows: "...and that includes some Apostolics. The difference is that some of the Apostolics who are racists won't admit that they are...."

I would say that many racists, regardless of religious persuasion or cultural background, are not truly aware of their inherent racism. Racism is found in all corners of civilization and that is one blanket statement I am confident is truly accurate. :ninja:

[InJesusName]

Why can't everyone just stay with their own kind! The animals do! :yeah:
some animals do... lol... ever seen that Jackelope?

[Marie]

some animals do... lol... ever seen that Jackelope?
or a ...uh Cabit, i guess you could call it. That is a cat x rabbit

[AnointedByHim]

In order for your statement to be accurate and nonprejudicial, it should be phrased as follows: "...and that includes some Apostolics. The difference is that some of the Apostolics who are racists won't admit that they are...."

I would say that many racists, regardless of religious persuasion or cultural background, are not truly aware of their inherent racism. Racism is found in all corners of civilization and that is one blanket statement I am confident is truly accurate. :ninja:

Racists know that they are racists, but it is the Apostolic racists that won't admit that they are racist. That is what makes Apostolics to be considered a cult, but that isn't the only thing that makes Apostolics to be considered as a cult. Atleast people who aren't Apostolic and some people that are Apostolics see this.

[jhlent]

Racists know that they are racists, but it is the Apostolic racists that won't admit that they are racist.

That is what makes Apostolics to be considered a cult,

but that isn't the only thing that makes Apostolics to be considered as a cult.

Atleast people who aren't Apostolic and some people that are Apostolics see this. So are you going to just keep us guessing.... or are you going to tell us just makes us a cult....??

And are you also an Apostolic Cult member...??

Are you even Apostolic...??

[AnointedByHim]

So are you going to just keep us guessing.... or are you going to tell us just makes us a cult....??

I don't have to because you do a really good job of proving what makes many Apostolics a cult.

And are you also an Apostolic Cult member...??

No

Are you even Apostolic...??


Yes, I am Apostolic

[ddc101]

1Ti 3:1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.


1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;


1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;


1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;


1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)


1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.


1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.





2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,


2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[Abigail4476]

Racists know that they are racists, but it is the Apostolic racists that won't admit that they are racist. That is what makes Apostolics to be considered a cult, but that isn't the only thing that makes Apostolics to be considered as a cult. Atleast people who aren't Apostolic and some people that are Apostolics see this.
Many people who hold and abide by racist views they have grown up with are unaware of their inherent racism through ignorance and would not label themselves as racist or prejudice. To say that only Apostolic Racists will not admit when they are seems a bit silly to me.

[Truthseeker]

Many people who hold and abide by racist views they have grown up with are unaware of their inherent racism through ignorance and would not label themselves as racist or prejudice. To say that only Apostolic Racists will not admit when they are seems a bit silly to me.

An ignorant racist is still a racist.

[Abigail4476]

An ignorant racist is still a racist.
Well, yes...I know that...but the point was that there are people who aren't aware of their OWN racism. I wasn't making excuses for their ignorance...just pointing out that some people are ignorant. (and I mean ignorant as in, lacking knowledge...not as in stupid....although, I think racism is as stupid as you can get, but then....bleh...I'll stop here)

[Truthseeker]

I'm sorry I misread your post. I thought you were stating a racist that is ignorant of it aren't racist. I got the "label THEMSELVES as racist" part wrong.

[universalight]

:confused: I have got myself in a situation that i need some assistance in . I have been raised up not being racial .To love everyone .I meet this girl and she is mixed .I see her as a God loveing person and ignore that part.I should of asked my pastor what he thought about it and this would of never happened ,but you know that devil he'll sneek up on you with anything.So i said i'd go out with her .Then i asked someone if it was right. They strongly advised me not to that it would in the long run take me off the track of God.So i'm asking the pastors and anyone else who could help me understand this situation. P.S. I listened to the preacher. Were not going out .I obeyed the soulwatcher. but i need some advise.
What race..the human race??...are you able to see beyond colour...LOVE is what its about.....Holy Mackeral man...why are you asking people...why are you even asking your Pastor...why dont you go to the Great Man Himself......God, ask Him...seek His answer......He is the one that will tell your a definate answer..He is the only one that knows absolutly who He has created for you and you alone.....no one else.....GO TO GOD AND SEEK HIS ANSWER...bless you

[InJesusName]

What race..the human race??...are you able to see beyond colour...LOVE is what its about.....Holy Mackeral man...why are you asking people...why are you even asking your Pastor...why dont you go to the Great Man Himself......God, ask Him...seek His answer......He is the one that will tell your a definate answer..He is the only one that knows absolutly who He has created for you and you alone.....no one else.....GO TO GOD AND SEEK HIS ANSWER...bless you
Not neccessarily true. I depends on who he goes to, and their resoning for saying it will take him off track. Last time I looked my Pastor was the watchman on the wall, as he should be. Any major decision should be taken prayerfully to the man of God of authority in one's life. I would say that a relationship that may lead to marriage is a major decision. Perhaps one or both of them are not ready for that kind of commitment, perhaps the Pastor see's something coming down the road spiritually, or knows of situations. A Pastor leads the fellowship, and is the headship of the Men. The families fall under the headship of the fathers and husbands. Therefore if a young man is outside his parents house, then his headship falls under the pastor, the same with single women who do not live at home, or are not married with children. As long as the man of God told him "not a good idea", then it would not be a good idea. Now if it is because of prejudice, and I am not saying it couldnt be, it could very well be, but until it shows through, and it will, if it is; He should definately listen to his headship. I am sorry, we live in a society that say "If it feels good do it!" Not so... and also you dont "fall" in love, you "fall into lust", love is a decision you make. You may love somebody, but they may not be the Lords will for your life, so by all means, take it to God also. Ask him why you should not, you will surprised what he tells you. And remember, things may change later on. I just came out of a 1 1/2 yr relationship with a young lady from my church... (I was 20, she was 19 when we broke it off), it just wasnt the Lord's will, and He made it clear. But that may just be for the time being, she's a real sweet girl, loves God, a Sunday school teacher, a prayering young lady, loves to do outreach, and many more qualities, that were on my "list", but there were just things that need working out in both of our lives. I know that whether she is the one or not, God has someone out there, and if it isnt her, than it means I was the one for her either. I want the best for me, and the best for her, and I dont see that as selfish. Another thought on dating... it stupid! You go through all these emotions, and you get attached, and maybe somethings happen that shouldnt i.e.- kissing, hugging... and so on and so forth. That doesnt help you focus on the Lord one bit!!! Dont worry, it isnt fresh, we broke up in July 2003, and I am just letting the Lord work on me. Another thing, maybe God has ministry planned for this guy, and in the ministry, it takes a certain type of guy to be in the ministry, (Timothy... I dont have my bible out, but it is in either first or second timothy!), so therefor it takes a certain type of woman to marry someone in the ministry, I sorry, if I am to become a minister, I dont want to marry a gossiping woman, who got a AT&T ministry going on, is frivolous with money, shallow about people... I want a praying woman, one who is going to submit to me, not as me being a totalitarian governer, but who isnt going to spout off about me every 5 minutes... so there are a lot of things that go into it. Marriage is for life, there isnt any divorce for Apostolics, unless something like adultery, or physical abuse or something. There is a verse about a woman winner her husband to the Lord through her words... so it is very important, my advise, listen to you pastor, and pray, pray, pray, pray, pray!

[universalight]

[QUOTE=InJesusName]Not neccessarily true. I depends on who he goes to, and their resoning for saying it will take him off track. Last time I looked my Pastor was the watchman on the wall, as he should be. Any major decision should be taken prayerfully to the man of God of authority in one's life. I would say that a relationship that may lead to marriage is a major decision. Perhaps one or both of them are not ready for that kind of commitment, perhaps the Pastor see's something coming down the road spiritually, or knows of

Hey...guess what...we just have to agre to dissagree..and I just figured something majorly.......Im not an Apolstolic...nope.....I just joined this list and all day have been trying to figure it......Ive been reading much in the boards here and now know that I dont belong here......im a dicsiple of Jesus..and totally "without the camp"...you probably wont know what that means....for if you did you wouldent be here...God Bless you though in your walk through the wilderness
Universal

[Abigail4476]

Ive been reading much in the boards here and now know that I dont belong here......im a dicsiple of Jesus..and totally "without the camp"...you probably wont know what that means....for if you did you wouldent be here...God Bless you though in your walk through the wilderness
UniversalBut you apparently know what it means...and you're here...hmmm :wah:

Okay folks. Love, if you are referring the warm fuzzy feeling you get when looking at someone, is NOT all that matters. Whenever you date someone, you should be looking for qualities that you want in a lifetime partner. Now, for me, personally, in a man, those qualities were godliness, intelligence, a strong foundation and God and true doctrine, ambition, physical strength, prayerful, physical attraction, a gentle touch and a strong backbone. (JUST to name a few...) Also, my daddy wisely advised me once to look for someone who treated 1. animals, 2. children, and 3. the elderly with respect and kindness.

But these are just what I looked for--everyone looks for something different--the POINT is, that there are many PRACTICAL matters when one is considering a lifelong partner, and it is wise and prudent to search one's own heart, to seek the face of God, to seek wise and Godly counsel from the man of God, and to seek the objective opinions of other people you trust. One should NEVER allow themselves to be blindly dragged into a relationship by their emotions or physical chemistry, for these are of the flesh, and though vitally present, are not dependable for making such decisions in a wise fashion.

1. Know what you want in a spouse before you date anyone. 2. Never make any decision based solely on how you feel about it. 3. Always seek counsel in such decisions, since we can often be blindsided by strong emotional connections and should let someone who is more objective advise us in these areas.


All of that said, I will say this as well: IF you have found a potential mate that meets all of your preset qualifications, AND they are rooted and grounded in the faith, and you have a naysayer who is naying (neighing?) about it based on race? You can count that naysayer out, for their counsel isn't godly, since God isn't a racist :)

Oh, and one other thing...once you've decided that someone qualifies as good potential mate material? Let yourself be dragged along for the ride... (I have the vague feeling that I should rephrase the previous sentence, but I can't think quite how...)

Inny waze... Lest I sound coldhearted...about the "romance" issue...just looking at it from the married side of the fence....

[ddc101]

Brother Thomas,
I like your spirit.You are submissive and walking soberly not just blown about by emotions.That is an admirable trait.
It reminds me of this scripture:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pro 11:14 Where no counsel [is], the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors [there is] safety.


I also loved the chain of authority explaination.You and I see things alike.
Great post.
I am sorry the lady did not agree who was new.But we never all agree.
lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

A Pastor leads the fellowship, and is the headship of the Men. The families fall under the headship of the fathers and husbands. Therefore if a young man is outside his parents house, then his headship falls under the pastor, the same with single women who do not live at home, or are not married with children. As long as the man of God told him "not a good idea", then it would not be a good idea. Now if it is because of prejudice, and I am not saying it couldnt be, it could very well be, but until it shows through, and it will, if it is; He should definately listen to his headship.


Anyone should want Godly counsel, but of the issue about interacial marriages is white/black marriages. It's a white/black issue birthed out of prejudice or racist motives.

Anyhow, I would have to disagree about the pastor being the head of the men. There's only one head and that's king Jesus. No man is the head of another man.

This pastor is the head stuff is used as a control tactic, but it's not bible.

[ddc101]

So figure out this scripture



Hbr 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you


And how about these:
1 Peter - Chapter 5

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:


1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;


1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over [God's] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.


1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.


1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:


1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you


Regardless if its a team ministry or a plural eldership one of the elders still has to be in charge and the rest of the church in submission to him or them.
When we say we refuse to submit to anyones authority except Jesus Christ we are stepping out of the pattern of the early church.lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

So figure out this scripture



Hbr 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you

Them
And how about these:
1 Peter - Chapter 5

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

ElderS which are among you


1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;


1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over [God's] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.


1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

"the elder" refers to the eldership as a whole. Why should the younger submit only to one elder when God called all the elderS to feed and take the oversight of the church.

Here's some other translatiions:
1 Peter 5:5
You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

1 Peter 5:5
In like manner, ye younger, be subject to elders, and all to one another subjecting yourselves; with humble-mindedness clothe yourselves, because God the proud doth resist, but to the humble He doth give grace;







1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:


1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you


Regardless if its a team ministry or a plural eldership one of the elders still has to be in charge and the rest of the church in submission to him or them.
When we say we refuse to submit to anyones authority except Jesus Christ we are stepping out of the pattern of the early church.lv sis.c


None of those scripture support you statement. Besides I was speaking about the false notion that a pastor is the head of the church. I do agree we should submit to the elders. even to one another which is left out most of the time.

[Pastor D]

Praise the Lord, everyone!
I have read the posts about the authority and position of the pastor. As a pastor, I have to say that it is a two-fold responsibility between membership and leadership. I agree that members should respect the authority of their pastors; however, pastors should be prayerfully led in how they handle their authority. Very early in my pastoral ministry, the Lord spoke to me and told me that I would have to account for every word that came out of my mouth; simply because people would make life decision based upon my words. I have tried to teach and preach the word and guide people in making decisions based upon biblical mandates. Even if I disagree personally with the decision a member makes, unless the Lord has shown me something that I can share, I need to make sure that the member knows my concerns, but has the freedom to make a prayerful decision. If I make the decision for them then I am responsible for the outcome.

Very recently, I counseled with a young man who was courting a young woman in his church for marriage. His parents, her parents and the pastor all sanctioned the relationship; however, the pastor passed away. The new pastor commanded that the relationship end without any reason. Consequently, this young man has struggled spiritually, simply because something he had prayed for and looked forward to was abruptly taken away by his pastor. When I read my bible, whenever God gives commands, he also gives rationales in the form of promises or warnings. Arbitrary decisions shrouded in "because I am the pastor and the man of God" are questionable to me. Is that not acting as a "lord over God's heritage?"

Pastor D

[InJesusName]

Praise the Lord, everyone!
I have read the posts about the authority and position of the pastor. As a pastor, I have to say that it is a two-fold responsibility between membership and leadership. I agree that members should respect the authority of their pastors; however, pastors should be prayerfully led in how they handle their authority. Very early in my pastoral ministry, the Lord spoke to me and told me that I would have to account for every word that came out of my mouth; simply because people would make life decision based upon my words. I have tried to teach and preach the word and guide people in making decisions based upon biblical mandates. Even if I disagree personally with the decision a member makes, unless the Lord has shown me something that I can share, I need to make sure that the member knows my concerns, but has the freedom to make a prayerful decision. If I make the decision for them then I am responsible for the outcome.

Very recently, I counseled with a young man who was courting a young woman in his church for marriage. His parents, her parents and the pastor all sanctioned the relationship; however, the pastor passed away. The new pastor commanded that the relationship end without any reason. Consequently, this young man has struggled spiritually, simply because something he had prayed for and looked forward to was abruptly taken away by his pastor. When I read my bible, whenever God gives commands, he also gives rationales in the form of promises or warnings. Arbitrary decisions shrouded in "because I am the pastor and the man of God" are questionable to me. Is that not acting as a "lord over God's heritage?"

Pastor D
Good points, however, I wasnt meaning "Just because I am the pastor, and I have the power, NO!" That wasnt what I was saying, and I pray no one took it that way. With that said, there still needs to be respect for the ministry, and if a warning is issued, then it should be taken very seriously. My Pastor rarely comes out and just says "NO", unless it is about stuff that we should already realize as wrong, say like commiting fornication, drinking, smoking, other things along those lines... because we as sheep, know their wrong! At least if we have read our Bibles, we know their wrong. As for the situation at hand, we dont know why the Pastor said no, it would be wrong for all the people on this board to judge and say the pastor is a racist, we only heard one side of the Story, and maybe God spoke to that young mans Pastor about something that was going on! My Pastor councels people, he tells them what he feels about things they bring to him, when I approached about Ashley like two yrs ago... he said if I had prayed, and felt like the Lord had given the go ahead, and her parents were in agreement, then to go ahead. But as it turned out a yr and a half later, I realized that it wasnt God's will for that time, we werent ready to be serious, I cant support a wife right now, and I am in college for 3 more years, (getting a bachelors and Master in Accounting!), so for me to even consider a future spouse right now is out of the question. Thankfully we were good friends, and still are friends, and other than the awkwardness of seeing eachother and knowing that we arent together, and seeing eachother maybe speaking with, or having fun with someone else other than us, we have been good... Praise God, she's a wonderful sweet young lady and one day, she'll make someone an awesome wife... as long as she learns how to cook... lol Nah she does ok, spaghetti and stuff... :laugh: Please to all those who have children... and teens, TEACH THEM TO COOK, especially those gals... I can cook cause I was on my own when I was 12, a two parent working household... funnn...

[ddc101]

Anyhow, I would have to disagree about the pastor being the head of the men. There's only one head and that's king Jesus. No man is the head of another man.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brother Rob
those scriptures I gave were in reply to the above statement.Please clarify because it seems by this statement that you do not feel that you have to be submissive to the elder or elders of the church.I was not making a plural eldership or one pastoral statement.I was simply showing scripturally where we have to submit to authority that Jesus has placed in the church
as long as they stay within biblical guidelines and have sound doctrine.lv sis.c

[Truthseeker]

Anyhow, I would have to disagree about the pastor being the head of the men. There's only one head and that's king Jesus. No man is the head of another man.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brother Rob
those scriptures I gave were in reply to the above statement.Please clarify because it seems by this statement that you do not feel that you have to be submissive to the elder or elders of the church.I was not making a plural eldership or one pastoral statement.I was simply showing scripturally where we have to submit to authority that Jesus has placed in the church
as long as they stay within biblical guidelines and have sound doctrine.lv sis.c


OH NO! I wasn't implying that at all. I believe in following the standards of the church and direction of ther leadership. Unless it's sin or abuse. But Christ is my head not a man.

[ddc101]

So Brother Rob,
When you look into the mirror do you see Jesus? lol.....lv sis.c :lame:

[Abigail4476]

So Brother Rob,
When you look into the mirror do you see Jesus? lol.....lv sis.c :lame:
*snickers at the very corny but funny joke*

[hazardouszombie]

You probably should try to see tings out of others eyes as well, I have Choctaw Indian ancestry and I'm african-american, does that mean I should have to find someone that is african-american with Choctaw Indian ancestry as well, I would think not, its the end time, and there is no room for racism from anybody. What advice do you have for people with mixed ancestry? What race are they supposed to date? We must admit that we sometimes think inside of this little box inside of our heads, when we should really be open. Not everyone of the same race is the same anyway. I have friends that are a lot of different races, I try to see them through God's eyes, not my own. We see color, but what about God? He loves us all. I keep reminding myself that there is only one race, and that is the human race, you should make your decision to date someone on what the word of God says, its says to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Also have you observed how the person reacts to different situations? Does she treat her dad with respect, how about her brothers? Much more to it than race. W.E.B Du Bois says its the problem of the color line, in other words its time for everyone to stop competing and joins hands, and lets run this race with patience together!

[EvangSims]

In reading the original post and some responses, I appreciate this one.

I didn't understand the question to ask whether or not the young lady was baptized in Jesus' Name and filled with the Holy Ghost. I understood the question to be was it ok to date/marry outside of your own race.

Galatians 3:28 says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

If we are all ONE why would it be a sin to marry outside of your race? Also, which race would be considered superior to the other?

Just a thought from your African American, baptized in Jesus' name, tongue talkin' sister!



His NAME is Jesus!

Beloved, I really do not understand the question.
Why should you need to ask ANYONE?
Are YOUR sins remitted in the NAME of Jesus? Are hers? Are both of you of the SAME persuasion / faith? Is the ONLY difference racial? How OLD are you? Do you really think you (this is how you come across) made a mistake?
Have you heard this childrens' hymn?
"Jesus loves the little children; ALL of the children of the world. Red and yellow, black and white..."
And the carnal man would ask: 'Yeah, but would you let your brother marry one?'
So, are you going to ask the carnal man, Beloved?

Brother Villa

[ApostolicDaught]

What a blessing to see a man of God stand up for what is right. If a person is saved, living for Jesus then where is it written then you can't date or marry another person of another race? After all it is recorded in the book of Acts that God made all nations of ONE BLOOD, we ALL came from Adam & Eve so there ought not to be any place for racism in the true body of Christ.

The enemy all too often uses these ploys to bring division amongst us. One of the 7 deadly sins is "he that soweth discord among the brethren." I am a caucasian sister who is engaged to an African-American brother & I praise God for him. God sent this man to me after the disaster of my first marriage where my former husband did unspeakable things to destroy my family.

If people wanted to really get technical the book of Revelation gives a fairly good description of our Lord & it looks to me like he is not caucasian. Donnie McClurkin sings a wonderful song that said "It doesn't matter what color you are as long as your blood was red."

I wish to God that the children of the Most High God would get our eyes off exteriors & see as the Lord sees. Was it not written that "man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart"? Can we try to see as Jesus sees?

My friends:
I am somewhat shocked at the responses I have just read. If the basis of the objection is spiritual that is one thing. If a person objects to dating solely on the basis of race, it is racism. No scripture justifies that it is ungodly for a person to date, marry and raise a family with a person of a different race. I know several multi-racial Apostolic couples who are very happily married and living for God. In fact one of deacons and his wife are a beautiful multi-racial family and I am proud to be godfather to their son.

Perhaps the issue should not be to discourage marriage between races, but to finally and forcefully condemn the racism that is a part of the body of Christ. We may not admit, but many Apostolic churches practice racism. A friend of mine was denied ordination because he was Puerto Rican/Philipino and was engaged to an African-American. My pastor preached for another apostolic minister and was instructed not to lay hands on the white sisters in the congregation. I sincerely believe we will have to answer to God for allowing this societal hatred for people who do not look like ourselves. You know racism is another form of worldliness!

Pastor D

[John Atkinson]

Hmmm, requirements First that they be in the faith, second that they have compatible DNA. since humans are compatible in that sense.

That is about it I guess.....

I am against marrying animals or space aliens :D

[ddc101]

I have never been proposed to by aliens but some were air heads....lol...lv sis.c

[Marie]

I have never been proposed to by aliens but some were air heads....lol...lv sis.c

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I think I'll just keep my mouth shut...LOL...Could get myself into trouble... :D

[Jer2911]

Ok, I admit, I didn't have time to read all the posts, so someone may have already mentioned this. I like to think that I am color blind, however there are members of my family that are racist. One of them is my father. If I had married someone of a different race, not only would there be a strain in the relationship between my husband and my father...but what of any children? Would it be fair to the children for Grandpa to like their cousins better because they weren't mixed, especially if their other grandparents are racist as well?

These are things that all need to be taken into consideration....

I have to add, that no Holy Ghost Christian can justify being a racist...I don't care where you live, or how you were raised :realmad:

[ApostolicDaught]

You absolutely correct. No Holy Ghost filled child of God should be a racist. If you say you got the love of Jesus deep down in your heart then we should indeed show the love we profess.

While I am sure that some have shyed away from inter-racial marriages cuz they did not want to feel some of the negatives that happen at times cuz of such a union. Others of us were simply happy to be loved by another & chose to make the life decision to be with that person in holy matrimony. In my family the only grandchildren my mother had were bi-racial. Between myself & my younger sister we had 11 children. So our children grew up together & they have a good relationship with their cousins.:D

[ddc101]

My friends come in all shades.I look into someones eyes and heart not opinions of men.In Gods opinion we are his children therefore brothers and sisters.I will admit though that if you are interracially married in this part of Louisiana folks give you a hard time.I have three nephews who are biracial.Two are black/white and one japanese/white.The one who is japanese gets it hard because he lives in Hawaii and his moms family dislikes whites.The others get treated mean at school because their family is white.Also the white children in the family hear the n word alot.It makes me sick.I told my brother in law (without thinking as he is unsaved) that its just plain worldly.He told me that was a wonderful way of putting it and asked more about what we believe concerning the bible.He has never been to an apostolic church.Incidently my nephews and niece do.They also get treated ugly there by the bus kids as its mostly a black congregation.So then the white children get told stuff.I hate it all.They are my family and I don't see the color only the beautiful children.lv sis.c

[Abigail4476]

No decision should ever be affected by the ignorance, corruption or malicious thinking of other people.

[havefaithinGod]

My sister married a man from Panama. He is a spanish-speaking black man, not african american but black. He is a wonderful man of God and UPC preacher. My sister is happy. They have 4 beautiful children, and the whole family loves him. If that is what makes her happy, no one has any say in it.

My cousin, however, opposed the marriage. She would call my 'soon-to-be-brother-in-law', at the time, and try to tell him why (according to the bible) their union would be wrong. She didn't get very far. She refused to even be in my sisters wedding although they had been best friends for years. It's sad.

Apostolicjoe, I don't really think you have gotten yourself into any bad situation. These are my thoughts on it.. If you have a person that is mixed black and white, and the white people don't want to date them because they are mixed with black, and the black people dont want to date them because they are mxed with white, who do they date?? Do they have to go and search for someone who is mixed like them? In some places there aren't people people who are. So if that is what we teach them in our churches, who's to say they wont find someone out in the world and let themselves be pulled from the house of God. ANd to think, all because the pastor said not to date them because of the color of their skin.

That is the thing that bothers me when it comes time for my nieces and nephews to date. We live in such a racially motivated society. What will it be like when they grow older? Will people look at it the same way as they do now??

[ApostolicDaught]

I believe it is truly a sad thing when a person who names the name of Christ tries to use the bible to justify racism. In my Christian walk I have seen many things named "works of the flesh" but this truly is one of them. Many people try to justify this mindset by using OT examples but that is totally ridiculous. God told the children of Israel not to marry these "other people" because they would draw his covenant people away from the true & living God.

If a person of another race is "in the body of Christ" as was the case in the Panamanian brother then there is scripturally nothing wrong with a caucasian sister in Christ from marrying him. Since God is no respecter of person then how can the church of God whom he purchased with his own blood be so?

Yanno, Brother Frederick K. C. Price wrote a controversial book which I really want to read that discusses these things. I saw him speak on parts of the book on one of his telecasts some time back & he spoke alot of truth. He may not be an Apostolic but I have followed his ministry for many years & the brother definitely speaks many truths right from the word of God. His book is titled "Race, Religion & Racism" & he spoke on how "organized religion" actually helped promote racism in the United States. If you speak to a person from the KKK they will claim to be Christians & spout bible rhetoric to justify their racism. Obviously there has to be some truth to what Brother Price wrote in light of this.

I believe the only way one can combat racism is through a multi-faceted approach. First, a person has to admit that they have a problem with it in some area in their life. It could have come from family upbringing. It could have come from bad experience(s) that happened to them or someone close to them at the hands of a person or persons of another race/ethnic heritage. I had to deal with it because I had a horrible thing happen to me when I was 13 yrs old by a person of another ethnic group. I was serious about making heaven my home so I asked the Lord to help me overcome this. Guess what? He did! As children of God we need to renew our mind & cast down every imagination that is not of God. The book of Acts tells us that God made ALL PEOPLE of ONE BLOOD. That means that black people, white people, hispanic people etc. all came from our original parents-Adam & Eve. I believe when we renew our minds & put on the mind of Christ we will be able to overcome this SIN & I truly believe that racism is sin.

I had a former pastor say on more than one occasion that there will be no segregation in heaven. There will be no black section, no white section & so on. It is down here where we "get it right" so all I can say in the famous words of Suffragan Bishop Alvin J. Nelson, "Get right church & let's go home."

Sorry if this is a long one but it was something the Lord started speaking to my heart when I started reading some of the posts that have hit the board since I logged back in yesterday. I love all of y'all & want to see Jesus in peace.

Your sister in Christ,
Sister Gayle Davis

[Elder Williams]

Praise the Lord,

I am Pastor Derrick L. Williams of the

Amazing Grace Apostolic Church
00 Main Street
Upland Pa 19015
610-876-6120

I provide name and address so if any does not like my response it is easy to contact me. Anyone Elder, Bishop, Pastor, Deacon, Sister or Brother that bases relationships on race is a racist and are Hell bound. My brother you need a new God lead Spirit filled person watching for your soul. It the blind lead the blind they both fall into the ditch.

If the girl loves God and is apostolic from the crown of her head to the soul of her feet then leave your relationship in Gods hands.

[foxfamily238]

There is absolutely no scripture contained in regards to race relations in the New Testament era. yes, in the Old Testament it was by race, but now all is by grace.

One pioneer pentecostal minister tried to answer this question many moons ago by stating the unnatural co-habitation of different animals. (Such as dogs, cats, etc.) That was the most unbiblical answer I have ever heard. No joking. It was obvious that there was fishing for a true biblical answer. Unfortunately, there are even some preachers that have never repented of biggotry, biasness, and prejiduce. It's amazing.

What surprised me one day, was to find when Moses married someone black. I almost rejoiced to see such boldness within the scriptures. She was Ethiopian. Study it. And when Miriam murmured, God smote her with leprosy! Whoa to them who condemn souls for issues of race.

The only, and please hear me, the only issue is culture. Will the culture and backgrounds create much conflict for the both? It also depends on where you live. Certain areas have yet to get right before God in the area of color of skin, yet other areas, usually major metro areas, Chicago, New York, California, etc. there is very little issues like that. Please feel free to email me if you would like - foxfamily238@hotmail.com

God bless, and keep your mind in His peace, protected, in Jesus name!

[foxfamily238]

Hmmm, requirements First that they be in the faith, second that they have compatible DNA. since humans are compatible in that sense.

I am against marrying animals or space aliens :D
Ah. Got something gainst' aliens eh? Let's pray bout this, my brutha. ;)

[L.A Pentecostal]

[ QUOTE=ApostolicDaught]
First, a person has to admit that they have a problem with it in some area in their life. It could have come from family upbringing. It could have come from bad experience(s) that happened to them or someone close to them at the hands of a person or persons of another race/ethnic heritage. I had to deal with it because I had a horrible thing happen to me when I was 13 yrs old by a person of another ethnic group. I was serious about making heaven my home so I asked the Lord to help me overcome this. Guess what? He did! As children of God we need to renew our mind & cast down every imagination that is not of God. The book of Acts tells us that God made ALL PEOPLE of ONE BLOOD. That means that black people, white people, hispanic people etc. all came from our original parents-Adam & Eve. I believe when we renew our minds & put on the mind of Christ we will be able to overcome this SIN & I truly believe that racism is sin.

Your sister in Christ,
Sister Gayle Davis


Good point, Sister.....


Growing up in one of the most racially diverse cities in the world - Los Angeles, I have witnessed the dynamics of racism as well as racial harmony first hand. I agree with you in that IN MANY cases of racial hatred, there WAS USUALLY A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH A MEMBER OF ANOTHER RACE BY WHICH ALL OTHER RELATIONSHIPS WITH THAT RACE WERE JUDGED BY on the part of the victim. One of the particular simililarities I have noticed between racists of all kinds is ignorance. In most of the cases I have encountered, the most severe racism was found amongst those people who lived and grew up in a nieghborhood or area that was predominantely one race and that these individuals rarley left this area to be exposed to people from other races or nationalities. The strongest racism I encountered was in the Los Angeles county jail system, of which I was an honored guest for over 10 times, over a 15 year period. I believe jail is a microcosm of the society we live in, racially speaking. As if by animal instinct, uneducated criminal men and women quickly group together upon entering the system with those to which they can identify with. This group becomes an aggressive protective structure based on little more than skin color or nationality. Of course more enlightened individuals, such as christians, while incarcerated, will generally associate with other races. such christians, though, endure persecution for doing so. I have lived it. I believe it is no different out of the system. We must all make a decision on where we stand on racism, regardless of the outcome or persecution from our peers. The bible is crystal clear on this matter. We are ALL descendants of NOACH...........

[ProphetJoe]

"What GOD has put together, let no man put asunder."

[xsimmsx]

lol the Prophet speaks here you him!!!

[Naomi]

I always get pretty upset when I see people thinking one race of people is better than another.

Sorry, but that's just plain old prejudice.

I normally don't even notice a person's skin color.

We are ALL human beings. God is no respecter of persons.

It's strange to me that most people think it's alright for a white person to marry someone from Japan or Hawaii, etc.
But let a white person marry someone black and it's a different story!!

I just don't get it. It is prejudice.

I know prejudice people sitting on pentecostal pews, thinking they're alright with God.

If we raise our children to see color differences, they will. God doesn't see them. Neither should we.

[ProphetJoe]

I always get pretty upset when I see people thinking one race of people is better than another.

Sorry, but that's just plain old prejudice.

I normally don't even notice a person's skin color.

We are ALL human beings. God is no respecter of persons.

It's strange to me that most people think it's alright for a white person to marry someone from Japan or Hawaii, etc.
But let a white person marry someone black and it's a different story!!

I just don't get it. It is prejudice.

I know prejudice people sitting on pentecostal pews, thinking they're alright with God.

If we raise our children to see color differences, they will. God doesn't see them. Neither should we.Amen! Amen! Amen!

[Holyvessel]

Don't forget the great words of our Lord !

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If we claim to be serving GOD then Act like it.

We are born not after Race or blood line or anything that the enemy can use to divide us.

Any congragation that has a Pastor or Minister the condone any acts of racism is not of GOD. runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

[OriginalPraxeas]

Bro. Joe,

I am 21 yrs old, and when I was about 17, I was in your same situation. I had been raised in an environment that was not racist, although I did live in Mississippi at the time. I wanted to date this girl who was mixed (black/white), thinking that my family would not mind. Oh, my did they mind. They did not approve, but eventually I saw that it was best to follow their advice and not get myself into anything that I wasn't willing to fight for, which as it turns out, I wasn't. Bro, this girl would have gotten me off track too, but from all appearances, everything was fine. If nothing else, the comments and hurtful remarks could get you bitter in the long run and make you turn from God. I believe your pastor has told you right, but it's definitely not easy, I went through many a tough discussion trying to explain to her why we couldn't be together. Listen to your elders, they have your best interests in mind, even though I didn't understand at the time. Looking back, I am thankful for people who cared enough to point to me that things weren't going quite right.

Bless you, Brother

Ben
Can someone educate me how dating a bi-racial person can get you off track? We are talking about race, not religion right? Does equally yoked mean she has to have the same color skin???

And if anyone needs to consult a man of God, it's those so called Christians who are still closet racist who would mind a white man dating a bi-racial girl.

That's my opinion, then again I really WAS raised in a non racist home in southern California.

[TodayAGiftFrGod]

Hmmm, requirements First that they be in the faith, second that they have compatible DNA. since humans are compatible in that sense.

That is about it I guess.....

I am against marrying animals or space aliens :DI have to tell you brother there have been a few I've seen that had a pretty close resemblence to the latter! :spin:

You really should come sit and watch people at the carwash or those in our mall just for a short while.... People watching can be quite amusing! :yeah:

It probably was the first requirement they failed to meet that set them apart in the first place... Guess had they met the first requirement, they wouldn't have resembled the latter references? :confused:

:spin: :banana: :spin:

[Estrada]

Of course you can marry outside your race...Praise the Lord!:icon_danc If you really think about it we are one creation...one people....the Lord just painted us differently and some eyes are more slanted and some are more rounded but we have been created by the Lord! Praise God! We are called humanity! :yeah:

[Abigail4476]

My niece (caucasian) is engaged to a fine young man--a Christian, and a sweetheart to boot. He is also black. They live in Southern Louisiana, and suffice it to say, none of my niece's church "friends" (I don't really consider them to be her friends, but you know what I'm saying), the families in the church she grew up in will attend the wedding. Not only that, but her pastor refuses to marry them, or have the wedding at their home church.

I'm sure that pastor, if asked, would say, "No, I'm not a racist." Actions speak louder than words. And some pastors in the deep south say they are afraid of losing members if they perform such ceremonies--I say that refusing to take a stand for what is right is taking part in racism just as much as if you were a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Which is worse? The one who burns a cross, or the one who insults a child of God?

[Estrada]

I heard brother Morgan preach before about churches like this since he is an evangelist he would go to certain churches and preach he talks about when he had went to churches where they were prejudiced and would rebuke the devil in the name of Jesus and tell them they needed to repent! Is the man she is marrying saved? Does he attend the same church? This is awfully sad for your niece to have to be experiencing this type of "control" situation...I take that you are a help and encouragement to her I hope?:) Because I'm sure as a young christian girl she would need it at this point lots of it...My big question is are they apostolic? May the Lord help her and bless her and strengthen her during this time of pressure by the spirit of this world...

[Abigail4476]

I heard brother Morgan preach before about churches like this since he is an evangelist he would go to certain churches and preach he talks about when he had went to churches where they were prejudiced and would rebuke the devil in the name of Jesus and tell them they needed to repent! Is the man she is marrying saved? Does he attend the same church? This is awfully sad for your niece to have to be experiencing this type of "control" situation...I take that you are a help and encouragement to her I hope?:) Because I'm sure as a young christian girl she would need it at this point lots of it...My big question is are they apostolic? May the Lord help her and bless her and strengthen her during this time of pressure by the spirit of this world...
Yes, they are Apostolic. He is the pastor's son from a neighbouring church.

[Acts238face]

Okay! Well I think that if my pastor has told me not to go there cause the guy I want to be with is carnal or something like that.....or maybe cause God has told my pastor that it's not His will, I would deffenately listen to him!
I am not a biast person on the subject cause I am majorly atracted to guys that are already the same "color" as I am.....I have nothing to fight for here cause I actually have no desire to date or mary outside of my race in the sense you all are saying.
I think there is NOTHING wrong with it at all. First of all I don't think that God has a problem with it at all, if He did then why is He actually putting people together who are not of the same "color." Some may think He would not do it but I have seen it! And you know that God put them two together for a reason. I have yet to see a Biblical reason for not marying outside our races or skin colors.
Here's something to ponder....If it is wrong, sinful, shameful (or whatever it may be called) to mary outside of one's skin "race" then what are we to do then. We are all mixed with somehting or other because our ancesters have maried ouside of their races right? I am half irish, a quarter skottish, dutch, french and sweetish, and the other quarter of me is charokee, apatchie, sue and camanchy....don't know if i spelled them right...ha ha...so who do i mary....do i simply mary a white man cause Im white or do I have to find someone who is equally mixed with the same things I am? When you really get down to the nitty gritty of things we are all mixed with something or other....eaven some full blooded races are mixed and that's how they became a race! So those people who are mixed in race can never mary? No I don't think that's the way the LORD intends it to be.
I hondestly and with a love for EVERYONE say today that in my opinion all who have a problem with interacial marying should really pray about their feelings and views on the subjece. I would ask God if it was Him or me that makes me feel this way, do I only see these things from a racial stand point or does the word of God say that I am right? Pray for clerity on the matter and then just listen to God.
With His Love......Bye for now!

[ddc101]

Hey I have never heard of anyone being half Indian and the Indian being so intertribal.Tell me about that.My greatgrandmother was full blooded.Its a rare thing due to past tribal wars.So how did that happen? lv sis.c

[Estrada]

was black....lol..lol...we are one race "humanity" in reality that is the thing here...Well hopefully your neice is marrying a wonderful man and upon her marriage it may obviously be best for her to maybe attend her new husbands apostolic church...I have met and been close to a black sister and have known a few black people and we really love them they are very "close" people they are our brothers/sisters. As a matter of fact we have just received an invitation from the PAW pastor to attend their 10 anniversay meeting and my whole family will be going and maybe our church as well...and guess what we will be praising the Lord in a primarily black apostolic church! Were excited it will be our first time and we are extremely excited God has given:spin: their culture much talent can't wait to be a part of it in the church and see God use these precious brethren...they are our "family"!

[ShiningEpistle]

God will move whenever he has people in one mind and one accord to see Him move. Doesn't matter the ethinicty or culture. If they're Apostolic and you're Apostolic then you're family.

As far as the issue on interracial relationships is concerned our society is getting use to homosexual relationships but still has problems interracial ones. How backwards is that. Let's just hope our churches open their eyes to what God meant when He said be yoked (with unbelievers). God bless you all. It's been a while since I posted to this site. It's good to see it still going.

[Estrada]

Praise God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God will move whenever he has people in one mind and one accord to see Him move. Doesn't matter the ethinicty or culture.

This is 100% truth! I love it thats the God I know and love!

[apsurf]

Sis. Estrada....

I hope you have a good time at the PAW church....I have actually been more
accepted at some of the ethinic churches then in some of the circles I grew up in.
Shalom, and God Bless,
Brandon

[jsc1215]

This thread is definitely active. I am not sure how much more I can add to what has been said, but I do know this: Race was never a deciding factor. It was the hearts of the people, coupled with idolatry, that made God upset with the Jews in the Old Testament.

I grew up in a racist town also...even had people quote Bible out of context to *prove* interracial dating was wrong.

My wife is Native American, and I am white...our church welcomes both of us with open arms.

[Estrada]

For he created flesh and he created us with different colors and most definitely all of our personalities are different no matter what color we are....he is a creative God! :photo:

[apsurf]

I still remember at the age of 14-15 my local church had this same debate among the teenagers. we had some blacks who were coming. Anyway, I stood up and said yes I would go out with a black girl if I thought she was cute. Anyway one of the black teens (about 19 then) happened to walk by and hear what I said. She asked basicly if Iwas serious. When I said yes, she then asked me out. Needlesstosay I blushed big time and didn't give an answer. She walked off laughing. But we grew closer as friends after that. I have always regretted not having said yes. Even my dad who wasn't crazy about the age difference then, later told me I should have said yes. I always smile when I remember that memory. Now if I could just remember her name....I never could then either!!! LOL!!!:laugh: Remembering Names is definately not a strong point for me!
Shalom, and God BLess,
Brandon parker

[JeSuSfReAk35]

Um,well my opinion is that yes,apolistics should be able to date outside thier race because it really only matters if you love the person!People should be able to date whoever they want,as long as they make a good couple.I know,you dont really care for a 13 year old's advice,but hey!Why not?I might be smarter than the pastors!!!!!HA!Imagine that!:)

[Truthseeker]

Myabe everyone should just stick with their own kind, the animals do!

[Ipeter2:9]

I cant believe what Im hearing. Members of what I thought was the Apostolic Church saying "to stick to thier own kind". Do you know what this is? This is racism in the form of "forum discussion". It is ok to worship with other races but we cant date or marry other races? Well, I cant believe what I just read. Remember, God made everything equal. There is nothing wrong with a white man marrying a black or hispanic woman or vise versa. You white 'apostolic christains' just think there is. I certainly hope yall do some praying esp. Bro. Rod (Mr. Stick to our own kind). God Bless.

[Abigail4476]

I cant believe what Im hearing. Members of what I thought was the Apostolic Church saying "to stick to thier own kind". Do you know what this is? This is racism in the form of "forum discussion". It is ok to worship with other races but we cant date or marry other races? Well, I cant believe what I just read. Remember, God made everything equal. There is nothing wrong with a white man marrying a black or hispanic woman or vise versa. You white 'apostolic christains' just think there is. I certainly hope yall do some praying esp. Bro. Rod (Mr. Stick to our own kind). God Bless.
Ipeter, Truthseeker was just being funny. Trust me. :p

[Naomi]

Ipeter, Truthseeker was definitely being funny. Maybe he'll post a picture of himself and his lovely wife for you to see. Then you'll know he was joking.

[Truthseeker]

I cant believe what Im hearing. Members of what I thought was the Apostolic Church saying "to stick to thier own kind". Do you know what this is? This is racism in the form of "forum discussion". It is ok to worship with other races but we cant date or marry other races? Well, I cant believe what I just read. Remember, God made everything equal. There is nothing wrong with a white man marrying a black or hispanic woman or vise versa. You white 'apostolic christains' just think there is. I certainly hope yall do some praying esp. Bro. Rod (Mr. Stick to our own kind). God Bless.

OK Mr Date who you want! :laugh: Most everyone knows me here and would have known I was just a kidding. Maybe I should have placed a smile or something.

[NanaRenan]

Bro. Rob, just wanted to say that "Sister Rob" is lovely and I think she must be very sweet and patient -- to put up with you! ;)

"stick to your own kind" indeed!!! Stop yankin' people's chains -- or we'll be calling you Troublemaker instead of Truthseeker!:yeah:

[hazardouszombie]

I agree. Would anyone care to explain?

[NanaRenan]

I agree. Would anyone care to explain?
Agree with what and explain what?

[jammin]

no i do not beleive any person in church should date outside the church . for i beleive if one should profess the holyness or holyghost you should date the same or stay away from the outside world i do beleive your setting yourself up for the devil beleive it or not unless your dating a person like yourself saved or none saved be true too god and god will be true too you joe from niles

[Deonna]

no i do not beleive any person in church should date outside the church . for i beleive if one should profess the holyness or holyghost you should date the same or stay away from the outside world i do beleive your setting yourself up for the devil beleive it or not unless your dating a person like yourself saved or none saved be true too god and god will be true too you joe from niles

While you are correct that we shouldn't be unequally yoked with unbelievers, the issue being discussed is interracial dating/marriages.

[Thedon]

As an Australian reading this thread, I'm shocked. Completely shocked. The racism of so many here astounds me. America is an incredibly racist place. I just don't believe it. Pastors counselling people not to date people because they might upset their racist friends and relatives??? Unbelieveable. We are called to be separate from the ungodliness around us - not to conform to it!!

And some of you are in the church? You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

[Abigail4476]

As an Australian reading this thread, I'm shocked. Completely shocked. The racism of so many here astounds me. America is an incredibly racist place. I just don't believe it. Pastors counselling people not to date people because they might upset their racist friends and relatives??? Unbelieveable. We are called to be separate from the ungodliness around us - not to conform to it!!

And some of you are in the church? You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.I think you'll find the majority of posters here are against racism unequivocally. So I can understand why the racism of a few here would astound you, but I did a quick review of the posts, and most of them are anti-racism, not the other way around.

I agree with you, though--in certain areas of the country, the United States is very racist. Hopefully that will change, with God's help. Racism has no place in the heart of a Christian.

[Truthseeker]

As an Australian reading this thread, I'm shocked. Completely shocked. The racism of so many here astounds me. America is an incredibly racist place. I just don't believe it. Pastors counselling people not to date people because they might upset their racist friends and relatives??? Unbelieveable. We are called to be separate from the ungodliness around us - not to conform to it!!

And some of you are in the church? You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.


But don't the animals stay with their own kind? :spin:

[Apostolicdad]

:cry: If racism can be equaled to hatered, and we call ourselves christains, and belong to a church that proclaims that God loves everyone does this not make us out to be liars?

[LilOrphanAnnie]

But don't the animals stay with their own kind? :spin:
those of you that don't know Truthseeker, he's totally kidding- he's in an interracial marriage & a really nice guy besides-

[LilOrphanAnnie]

:cry: If racism can be equaled to hatered, and we call ourselves christains, and belong to a church that proclaims that God loves everyone does this not make us out to be liars?
I'm not quite following you-

we belong to a church that says God loves everyone,
we call ourselves Christians,

How is that making us liars? What does that have to do with racism? I'm not following the connection there.

[Apostolicdad]

I'm saying, if we go to a church that proclaims that God loves everyone, and there are some with a racist spirit there are we not to bring this under judgement? for example if someone says "I love jesus" but in his heart he/ she is racist does not that make them a liar?

[LilOrphanAnnie]

I think that is very true. :) the pastor ought to take them aside privately, and if that doesn't work, bring some elders with, etc, etc- if it's in the ministry, then the saint needs to pray, pray, pray that thing out of there.

[Abigail4476]

I'm saying, if we go to a church that proclaims that God loves everyone, and there are some with a racist spirit there are we not to bring this under judgement? for example if someone says "I love jesus" but in his heart he/ she is racist does not that make them a liar?
Apostolicdad, if someone attends your church that is a racist, hopefully, over time, God will convict them.

However, if the leadership of your church or the church mindset as a whole is one of racism, I would consider going elsewhere.

Racism usually is a result of ignorance and bad upbringing as a opposed to pure maliciousness--however, I've met a few viciously racist people in my time who claimed to be Christians. I do not fellowship with such people.

[Truthseeker]

It would help if it was addressed more and some were called to the carpet on it, just like if it was a money sin. :eek:

[maria1]

Praise The Lord,
I Was Very Surprised To See This Article On Dating From Another Race. There Are Some Great Responses In Regards Of Ths Subject In These Emails. Well, I Believe That As Longest They Both Are Christians There Should Not Be Concerned For It. God Bless You
I Am New To This Site Hope See New Stuff, Here.
Sister, Maria

[ddc101]

I wonder if anyone thinks Native American is another race.
My greatgrandmother was full blooded and they married back when it was taboo.lv sis.c

[four31]

:idea: Praise the Lord all!
To put it bluntly, Jesus was not a racists and neither should we be, the bible said in Genesis that the Lord made man (Adam) and then woman (Eve)...Please note that he did not make Adam,Krishna,Chin,Kunta kinte,Chief thunder,Hans,Mohammed...My point is that he only made Adam so therefore we are all related (like it or not) We are human beings, adding to that when we have repented, been baptised in Jesus's name, and filled with the Holy Spirit(with the evidence of course) we are all one in Christ.

And if anyone has a problem with that and does not love his brother as he should because he LOOKS a little different that him, that person needs to get to know the lord. Remember what 1 John 4:7+8 said he that loveth NOT knoweth not God for God is love,:realmad:
That means what a person looks like, sounds like, etcetera.
As long as that person is living for the lord and believe in the word of the lord as you are, i believe that biblically there should be no problem in dating someone of "another race"...i personally think that it would be quite interesting.

To answer your question DDC101...Some would say "yes" and Some would say "no"

May the lord bless you all, and i do hope that my contribution was helpfull.

[ddc101]

Just wondering because some look at me funny.Once I preached at a church not all that far from here and they congregation thought I was from another country.lv sis.c

[four31]

It unfortunate as a so-called progressive and developed nation people judge and class someone by the way the sound or look :grumble:

That is where we as the church of the Living God has to set an example by not conforming to the way of the world but by the word of the lord and caring for and loving people as Christ loves them, don't matter how they look or sound...Take care

[yael]

I think everyone must understand that the feelings on dating outside out of ones race being a problem are not based on anyone’s Christianity or holiness but on their upbringing and environment.
Remember blacks have been thought of as inferior to whites for hundreds of years in this country. It is a very ugly heritage. However it richly and tightly woven in the fiber of this nation.

Many would like to think that they are followers of Christ first and formost but they would find it easier for a white apostolic brother or sister to marry a trinitarian before marrying an apostolic black brother or sister.
Because you may be able to convert the trinitarian but the black apostolic brother or sister is of an hue until he or she gets sheds their skin.

I think these are one of the situations one should apply what the Apostle Peter instructed: "See whether your are really in the faith."

[Apostolicdad]

Just wondering because some look at me funny.Once I preached at a church not all that far from here and they congregation thought I was from another country.lv sis.c some look at me like im from another planet lol at least ppl think ur from another country rofl
:yeah:

[jsc1215]

:confused: I have got myself in a situation that i need some assistance in . I have been raised up not being racial .To love everyone .I meet this girl and she is mixed .I see her as a God loveing person and ignore that part.I should of asked my pastor what he thought about it and this would of never happened ,but you know that devil he'll sneek up on you with anything.So i said i'd go out with her .Then i asked someone if it was right. They strongly advised me not to that it would in the long run take me off the track of God.So i'm asking the pastors and anyone else who could help me understand this situation. P.S. I listened to the preacher. Were not going out .I obeyed the soulwatcher. but i need some advise.
The sad part is when racial ignorance keeps otherwise equally yoked people from being together. Scripturally, the times when the men of God spoke against the wives (and husbands) of people who were from another race involved idolatry, not their race alone.


Ezra 9:1-2
[1] Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.[2] For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.


The first recorded interracial marriage in Scripture was between Moses (a Hebrew) and Zipporah (an Ethiopian). Miriam was stricken with leprosy because she spoke against Moses and his wife.


Numbers 12:1-15
[1] And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman. [2] And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it. [3] (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.) [4] And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out. [5] And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth. [6] And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. [7] My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. [8] With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? [9] And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed. [10] And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous. [11] And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned. [12] Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb. [13] And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee. [14] And the LORD said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again. [15] And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.


In our church, we have a good number of mixed-race couples. God has blessed us with a wonderful level of diversity which the different races provide; we do not see race as a factor at all.

We do, however, adhere to the Biblical teaching of not being unequally yoked with unbelievers - two people can be of the same race and still be unequally yoked!

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
[14]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. [18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


I pray this has been a help.

[drummerboy_dave]

It's funny. I remember when this thread started and never understood why there's so much confusion over this. I must say, haven't read many of the posts. I'm just suprised that it has gone on this long.

The only pesron an apostolic should date, is someone within the apostolic "race".

I'm saying, if we go to a church that proclaims that God loves everyone, and there are some with a racist spirit there are we not to bring this under judgement? for example if someone says "I love jesus" but in his heart he/ she is racist does not that make them a liar?
1 John 4:
20. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21. And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

"We" need to preach the word! The word will judge.

Let's be plain, shall we? Racism is ungodly.

[dllong]

I don't care if a woman is purple and long yellow hair, if she has money, I want a date.

:-)

[ddc101]

I don't care if a woman is purple and long yellow hair, if she has money, I want a date.

:-)
You are bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:laugh:

[Ephrahyim]

First off I’ll mention the fact that I attended the UPC for a number of years many years back. Many scriptural based teachings I learned have never departed from me. The concept of the ‘oneness’ of God has never left me. I have defended the UPC often throughout the years against many fellow Christians who had a misguided understanding regarding many of the doctrines of the UPC and the UPC as a whole. I have watched over the years as MYSTERY BABYLONIAN doctrines, called political correctness, has slowly poisoned the various Christian denominations. Watching the degenerating process has been heart wrenching. I’ve not placed my eye back upon the UPC until recently. And I must say, it looks as though the serpents have injected their venomous fangs just as deep into the UPC as the other Christian denominations.

A constructive rebuke.

I have looked over most all of the posts on this thread. The utter hypocrisy is almost comical. Do you even hear yourselves. Many of you will claim that the old testament cannot be used to denounce interracial mixing, merely because it’s the ’old testament’, then you will turn right around and use the old testament scriptures to try and justify interracial mixing. Either the old testament is obsolete or its not. Which is it? Most every one of your posts is a consistent flow of personal opinion reinforced over and over with ’I feel the bible says….’ ’I feel anyone who thinks this or that’ ’I feel’ ’I feel’ ’I feel’. I suggest you stop ‘feeeeeling’ and start backing up your statements (or should I say your opinions) with the scripture. And I’m not referring to taking a few hacked verses and throwing them into your personal emotional recipe as many of these posts have done thus far. How is it that this denomination can refine its doctrine so clearly regarding women wearing dresses, men’s hair length, woman’s hair length ect…which is backed up by scriptures few in number, yet run headway opposite against racism, race mixing ect…which is clearly backed up by a much larger body of scriptural evidence. Well said Jesus Christ…’You swallow a camel but strain on a Nat.’

One pastor on this thread made a passing statement saying that if you’re a racist then you’re going straight to hell. Oh really? Now it is one thing to see young Christians on here who have not yet graduated a high school level in their spiritual growth to rant such a statement in ignorance. But coming from a pastor, an elder in the body….come on now. Do what an elder ought to be capable of. Back it up. Define the words you are using. Show the scriptures which justifies such a statement. Show clearly and concisely the scriptural precedents that reinforces the very idea. And many of you know this is not possible due to the greater body of scripture which is clearly contrary to such ranting. I put the challenge out to some of you here and now. Reread some of these posts and back them up with scripture…and define your words. I am ready and willing to do the same.

I’m not here to ‘divide the brethren’. I’m here to sharpen.

Know what you believe and why you believe it.

P.S. (To the male elders….Don’t send the women. Stand up and be men.)

In Christ

Frank

[drummerboy_dave]

Well, Frank. Welcome to the GNC.

I must say, I await your future "teachings" with much eagerness. But please try to be more succinct. Your first post was vague and offered little beyond your own conjecture.

The topic of this thread is race. Let's stick to that. Show us the book. Is God a bigot?

[ddc101]

(sharpening my swords)
Okay heres a thought.
Why should Apostolics date at all? Its not bible to date.The bible teaches courtship and betrothal.lv sis.c

[Abigail4476]

P.S. (To the male elders….Don’t send the women. Stand up and be men.)

In Christ

Frank



This isn't a church setting. The "elders" don't send anyone here. This forum is the equivalent to talking in the grocery store. :p

Here are some multi-cultural (some interracial) Old Testament unions:

Naomi & Boaz
Isaac & Rebekah
Hadassah & the King
Moses & Zipporah
David & Abigail

Even in the Old Testament, the emphasis was on no marrying idol-worshippers--not on whether their skin was dark or not.

(Acts10:) 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

(II Corinthians 6:) 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Strong's Definition of...

unbelievers -

unfaithful, faithless, (not to be trusted, perfidious)
incredible
of things

unbelieving, incredulous


without trust (in God)

yoked together-

to come under an unequal or different yoke, to be unequally yoked

to have fellowship with one who is not an equal: 2Cor 6:14, where the apostle is forbidding Christians to have intercourse with idolaters


In the Old Testament, God allowed for foreigners (with no mention of skin color) to convert and become part of their community(Exodus 12:48). The issue was always worshipping other Gods--never the color of someone's skin.

It's also important to remember (with some humility) that from an Old Testament point of view, we are the unclean Gentile "dogs." Whether your skin is white or black wouldn't matter, since the measure isn't skin color but religious persuasion or lack thereof.

[Abigail4476]

(sharpening my swords)
Okay heres a thought.
Why should Apostolics date at all? Its not bible to date.The bible teaches courtship and betrothal.lv sis.c
What do you mean exactly when you say courtship?

I don't think dating the way it is done today in society, where kisses and more are "due" or expected at the end of the date is any way to find a spouse. Because by the time you work your way through 10 poor candidates you've been intimate with them all. :ninja:

I think group settings are a good way to get to know people. And then when a greater interest is found, then "courtship" or dating is the next step.

I do think people should spend time getting to know someone before they decide to date them at all. I think courtship and dating are fairly similar. Its just a time to get to know the other person and to decide if you want the relationship to progress. I like the idea that you don't date anyone who isn't a candidate for marriage. Is that what you mean by courting? Spending time with someone with the idea that they are a possible wife? (or husband)

Arranged marriages aren't necessarily a biblical commandment either:

(Numbers 36: (http://goodnewscafe.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)6 This is the thing which the LORD doth command concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, Let them marry to whom they think best; only to the family of the tribe of their father shall they marry.

So they were allowed to choose their husband, as long as it was within their tribe. (Which, by the way, had nothing to do with race or religion, but money, and keeping inheritances within the family.)

[Darreing]

here is what the word says about it;

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

I was completly angry at my father because he told me that it was best not to date or marry a "black girl" I felt like punching him in the nose, and he was trying to put it nicely
it kind of perturbs me that the color of ones skin would affect a mans decition to date a girl. I would fight for what is right. and I'm not the fighting type but oh man this would make my blood boil. How can The man that judged a girls race be making that judgement spiritualy. Its not possible.

[nosey1]

All that I know is that we all got off of the same boat. (NOAH'S)

[jamar]

Well, man's free will has managed to create racism, slavery, sexual perversion, gays, lesbians, whoremasters, perjury and taken prayer out of schools. All these things men and women usually learn during their adolescent years - through ingnorance and indoctrination by elders who themselves were indoctrinated by their elders who were gay or whoremasters or enslavers or bigots - pick something, I'm sure it can be found in your heritage too. It is with the moral heritage that many of us come to Christ. We bring him this mircky heritage - some of which we, to this day, will defend (even on this bulletin board) because it is who we are - truly. This is made even more challenging as those of use who truly do have the Holy Ghost struggle with those lost souls who are still swimming in their mirky heritage - you know, our friends who are good ole boys or boys in the hood - we still have ties to these people. Also, the world wants to see more sex, more fighting and discord - it makes for great ratings and boosts sales. We are affected by all of this and when the question of an interacial relationship comes up, we can't ingore the whispers of our moral heritage and are not sure of the response from our regional and local societies. Is it wrong to date/marry one of another race? What would your mother with her own mirky heritage say? What would your pastor with his own mirky heritage say? What social injustices will you face - they are real, you know? Using Jesus or any apostles as examples is difficult because they ignored their heritages and reached out to all people. For example, the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost and we know that Jews and Gentiles had a racial divide - but God save them equally - Acts 10:45 - And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. I don't know if many of us have that same kind of Holy boldness to depart from our moral heritage when making the tough decision. In conclusion, for decisions not just great and small, but potentially life altering we should seek God in prayer and fasting and rely only on His answer that His will may be done in our lives - Proverbs 3:6 - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Father, please let Your will be done and meet the needs of those on this board who are seeking earnestly for peace, truth and revelation. We ask for release from those things in our heritage which are not in accordance with Your will and we ask that those who are at points of decision be it race, finances, employment, family, whatever the situation is that they seek You and find in You all they need to be victorious. In Jesus name. Amen.

[Logos_on_Fire]

Hello ApostolicJoe...
I believe that you should always consider the source of where you are getting your information and or advice from. I believe that if this young woman is a God fearing woman, then always...always...always pray together and for eachother to see if this is the will of God. I believe God will give you an answer concerning your situation. Also, upon considering your sources of advice, be very selectful on who it is that will be giving you sound advice, but ask them to pray with you as well. I think this is best for you. This is my opinion and advice that I hope is helpful for you.

Who can separate GOD?

Logos on fire

[Ephraim]

The only true way for a real Christian (New Covenant believer) to marry outside their race is for them to marry someone who is a sinner. The Messiah came to tear down the walls of racism, even between Jews and Gentiles. Everyone who is in the Messiah has become apart of One Holy Nation of Christians. I am Mexican-American according to the flesh, but if I was to marry a Christian woman of African-American decent who is the New Covenant with God, I have not sinned. It does not matter what color of skin another brother or sister has, we do not have white souls, black souls, spanish souls, asian souls, we have SOULS. And as the Holy Ghost has said "All souls are mine..." Every soul that has entered the New Covenant (Acts 2:38) is of One Race, the race of Christians.

-Ephraim

[Apollos]

Where are you Ephrahyim?

[Holy Pants]

Where are you Ephrahyim?Lord is that you?

[2Cor 5:19]

Apostolics can date whoever they want! If you want to date outside your race then do so! You won't be unevenly yoked unless that person is an unbeliever! As for myself I prefer to stay within my race but that's my choice!

[Apollos]

Still waiting......

And so is Holy Pants, too- and everyone else that responded to you Ephrahyim.

[Abigail4476]

I think he was a "hit & run"...I could be wrong...have been before....:p

[bjc40]

I think he was a "hit & run"...I could be wrong...have been before....:p

Well, if one doesnt' "date," then one is left with two choices:

1. An "an arranged marriage" (which sister Abby said "no" to)

or

2. "highest bid" :icon_laug

Just Wondering,
Yall's thoughts?

Brother bjc40

[ddc101]

I think if we want to engage on an intelligent study we should start a new topic.lv sis.c

[Apollos]

What topic? Related to this thread, or another?

[NanaRenan]

(sharpening my swords)
Okay heres a thought.
Why should Apostolics date at all? Its not bible to date.The bible teaches courtship and betrothal.lv sis.c

Sister C....I'm inclined to agree with you.

I recently heard the remark that "divorce is prevailant in our society because we 'encourage' our children to PRACTICE divorce..."

Meaning, going together, breaking up, going with someone else, breaking up...

I think this is more and more a symptom or after-effect of the "feminist movement" and the "sexual revolution" that tells us we should "try out" a lot of people before we make a decision. Combined with all the Hollywood fairytales that when you find that special someone fireworks will go off, orchestras will play and you'll be happily ever after. Then reality sets in and the embers start to cool and we decide that WASN'T the one and start looking around for someone else!

I'll hush.

[2Cor 5:19]

Sister C....I'm inclined to agree with you.

I recently heard the remark that "divorce is prevailant in our society because we 'encourage' our children to PRACTICE divorce..."

Meaning, going together, breaking up, going with someone else, breaking up...

I think this is more and more a symptom or after-effect of the "feminist movement" and the "sexual revolution" that tells us we should "try out" a lot of people before we make a decision. Combined with all the Hollywood fairytales that win you find that special someone fireworks will go off, orchestras will play and you'll be happily ever after. Then reality sets in and the embers start to cool and we decide that WASN'T the one and start looking around for someone else!

I'll hush.

You have a point there!

[RickWright1976]

I think there are going to be some suprised "Apostolics" that get to heaven and find out that there's no redneck section. God is no respector of persons, he created us all, we are 1 race.

[NanaRenan]

I think there are going to be some suprised "Apostolics" that get to heaven and find out that there's no redneck section. God is no respector of persons, he created us all, we are 1 race.

AMEN!!! I've believed that ALL my life, despite having grown up in "Redneck Central".

[RickWright1976]

Well, I grew up all over the states, but usually in a rural setting, so I have seen my share of rednecks...as you can imagine, here in MS. there are a few as well..lol...but that spirit has been broken in our church thank God, I'd say 40% of our church is black, 10% hispanic...and it's wonderful..

[karl villani]

I am hesitant to post a reply to this most controversial of subjects but I am assuming that you're not a covert KKK member...The white supremist view is that the devil is the black man and that cain was half black and the result of adultery with Adams wife..etc...righteo?..well that whole theory gets blown out the water when Philip the evangelist converts an Ethiopian,and it was after all a Samaritan that the Lord used to highlight neighbourly love...my answer is only date a person if its right with the Lord regardless of nationality...that being said shouldnt you wait on God until he introduces you to a spouse.its a bit sensual going out with people who are never going to be anything more than a girlfriend..How many girls do you want to be affectionate with before you choose one?..well hopefully only one,the wife that God selects for me..Just wait ,Godliness with contentment is great gain...ksv

[MaDPrOpHeT]

My advice as a Co-Pastor and a Minister of God is this:

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

When will we realize no matter who is over us in the Church, that respect of persons due to race is SIN!

verse 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

verse 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

I cannot believe that such negative counsel can be given to an individual who truely loves some one and is denied the right to do so with blessings because a so-called spiritual leader in (his own opinion) sees it not right!

If Jesus Christ was a respect of person, then believe me we would all have fried in hell! We all bleed the same, we all have the same Spirit of GoD, Jesus Christ was a Jew in the flesh! So why even ask this question? Any Christian would have my blessing if they truely love the person, regardless of race, if they are equally yoked then it is indeed Holy!

:bow:

[ddc101]

Hi Madprophet,
Welcome to the GNC.lv sis.c

[Abigail4476]

My advice as a Co-Pastor and a Minister of God is this:

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

When will we realize no matter who is over us in the Church, that respect of persons due to race is SIN!

verse 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

verse 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

I cannot believe that such negative counsel can be given to an individual who truely loves some one and is denied the right to do so with blessings because a so-called spiritual leader in (his own opinion) sees it not right!

If Jesus Christ was a respect of person, then believe me we would all have fried in hell! We all bleed the same, we all have the same Spirit of GoD, Jesus Christ was a Jew in the flesh! So why even ask this question? Any Christian would have my blessing if they truely love the person, regardless of race, if they are equally yoked then it is indeed Holy!

:bow:

I'll add my welcome as well, and say: Great input! :tup:

[Servant007]

Hello, had to put in my 2 cents worth (and that's about all its worth if that)

My niece who is also my Pastors daughter asked me recently about dating a black man from another apostolic church. Knowing that he was Holy Ghost filled and of the same faith, and that my Pastor agreed. I said i didn't think that was a problem. She is mixed mexican/white......I told her if anyone questioned her to tell them she couldn't choose between a mexican or a white man so she chose black....:) I mean seriously....why is it that we are practically all "some" Indian or some mix and that don't bother us, but this does. We're all Gods children and as someone stated before the only way to be unequally yoked is to date outside your faith!!!!

[beckyball]

I have a question. I agree that we all came from Adam and Noah, but can someone explain why God made us different in the first place and when? We are not only of different colors, but different tongues and differnet culturel backgrounds. Why?

[Servant007]

I have a question. I agree that we all came from Adam and Noah, but can someone explain why God made us different in the first place and when? We are not only of different colors, but different tongues and differnet culturel backgrounds. Why?

Hello beckyball......The difference in languages can be traced back to the tower of Babel...when God "confounded their languages" You can read it in Genesis chapter 11. The first verse says that at that time the whole earth was of one language and of one speech, so that tells us that before this time there were no differences in language as there are now. It doesn't mention color though, so that is a mystery to me. It does however tell us in verse 9 that the LORD confounded the language of ALL the earth and scattered them abroad upon the face of the earth. So the ones that spoke the same language congregated together, I'm assuming, and created their own culture apart from everyone else. Hope that helped some.

[beckyball]

I agree. That is the point I am trying to make. I am not talking about racism here. I am discussing Bible history. Seems to me God did it for a reason. I believe that reason is that God did not want them to get together and be able to bulild the tower. I believe God wanted them to be seperate or he would have made them all one language and one color and one culture. God ususally does things for a reason, His reasons. We do not always understand. Just like today, all our languages are becoming as one, with everyone learning the different languages and the way we travel and live it is like we are all becoming one. That is what the anti-christ would love so he can have Global goverment, money, religion ect. How else could this work if we were not a Global community.
Just a thought!

[Servant007]

I agree. That is the point I am trying to make. I am not talking about racism here. I am discussing Bible history. Seems to me God did it for a reason. I believe that reason is that God did not want them to get together and be able to bulild the tower. I believe God wanted them to be seperate or he would have made them all one language and one color and one culture. God ususally does things for a reason, His reasons. We do not always understand. Just like today, all our languages are becoming as one, with everyone learning the different languages and the way we travel and live it is like we are all becoming one. That is what the anti-christ would love so he can have Global goverment, money, religion ect. How else could this work if we were not a Global community.
Just a thought!

I disagree in part. Yes, I agree at that time this was the case, but There were accounts in the Old Testament after this that Godly men had wives of another race. I mean if that's the case where do we draw the line. Do we stop learning languages and traveling, If so How do we reach the lost in other countries....the Bible did command us to go unto ALL the world. Not to mention I hardly believe that very many, if any in the USA is a pure, unspotted race. We are all mixed in some way. So which race should we marry...I know several people who have met and married outside their race and there is only one thing that mattered....Was God in the center of the Relationship. I undoubtedly believe that the only Wrong way to mix is Sinner with Saint.

[beckyball]

Hey, I'm not posting for or against. Just posting a question about this and the endtime.

Yes, this has been going on a long time. This is not just a question for Aposolics. This is world wide. We on this earth is more and more losing our seperate idenities and becoming one again as before Babel. You are right. After generation and generation mixing you will not have seperate colors anymore. Not pure anyway. That is the way it is right now!

Daniel 12:4
4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: (many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. )

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I still have the question if anyone can answer of why God made us different and made different nations and tongues. Was there a certian reason for while we are on earth? We know for sure it is not going to matter in heaven.

I don't know if anyone is getting at all what I am trying to say. If we all keep intermarrying ( no matter what the race) there is not going to be any pure races left and they will have lost their idenities. Like the US is steadly losing theirs with all the immigrants coming in and trying to change the way we do things and the way we believe. Isn't anyone proud of their heritage! I am not talking about the church here or salvation.

I know some people will pay big money for a pure breed of animal. why?

Anyways, this is all just to make us think. I believe God loves everyone! And when we get to Heaven their will not be different races, religions, gender and their is no marriage in Heaven so it will not matter up there!

[dllong]

From www.christiananswers.net

According to the Bible, all humans on earth today are descended from Noah and his wife, his three sons and their wives, and before that from Adam and Eve (Genesis 1-11). But today we have many different groups, often called "races," with what seem to be greatly differing features. The most obvious of these is skin color. Many see this as a reason to doubt the Bible's record of history. They believe that the various groups could have arisen only by evolving separately over tens of thousands of years. However, as we shall see, this does not follow from the biological evidence.

The Bible tells us how the population that descended from Noah's family had one language and by living in one place were disobeying God's command to "fill the earth" (Genesis 9:1, 11:4). God confused their language, causing a break-up of the population into smaller groups which scattered over the earth (Genesis 11:8-9). Modern genetics show how, following such a break-up of a population, variations in skin color, for example, can develop in only a few generations. There is good evidence that the various people groups we have today have not been separated for huge periods of time.

There is really only one race -- the human race. The Bible teaches us that God has "made of one blood all nations of men" (Acts 17:26). Scripture distinguishes people by tribal or national groupings, not by skin color or physical appearance. Clearly, though, there are groups of people who have certain features (e.g., skin color) in common, which distinguish them from other groups. We prefer to call these "people groups" rather than "races," to avoid the evolutionary connotations associated with the word "race."

All peoples can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. This shows that the biological differences between the "races" are not very great. In fact, the DNA differences are trivial. The DNA of any two people in the world would typically differ by just 0.2 percent. Of this, only 6 percent can be linked to racial categories; the rest is "within race" variation.

The variation in DNA between human individuals shows that racial differences are trivial. This genetic unity means, for instance, that white Americans, although ostensibly far removed from black Americans in phenotype, can sometimes be better tissue matches for them than are other black Americans.

Anthropologists generally classify people into a small number of main racial groups, such as the Caucasoid (European or "white"), the Mongoloid (which includes the Chinese, Inuit or Eskimo, and Native Americans), the Negroid (black Africans), and the Australoid (the Australian Aborigines). Within each classification, there may be many different sub-groups.

Virtually all evolutionists would now say that the various people groups did not have separate origins. That is, different people groups did not each evolve from a different group of animals. So they would agree with the biblical creationist that all people groups have come from the same original population. Of course, they believe that such groups as the Aborigines and the Chinese have had many tens of thousands of years of separation. Most believe that there are such vast differences between the groups that there had to be many years for these differences to develop.

One reason for this is that many people believe that the observable differences arise from some people having unique features in their hereditary make-up which others lack. This is an understandable but incorrect idea. Let's look at skin color, for instance.

What about SKIN COLORS?

It is easy to think that since different groups of people have "yellow" skin, "red" skin, "black" skin, "white" skin, and "brown" skin, there must be many different skin pigments or colorings. And since different chemicals for coloring would mean a different genetic recipe or code in the hereditary blueprint in each people group, it appears to be a real problem. How could all those differences develop within a short time?

However, we all have the same coloring pigment in our skin -- melanin. This is a dark-brownish pigment that is produced in different amounts in special cells in our skin. If we had none (as do people called albinos, who inherit a mutation-caused defect, and cannot produce melanin), then we would have a very white or pink skin coloring. If we produced a little melanin, we would be European white. If our skin produced a great deal of melanin, we would be a very dark black. And in between, of course, are all shades of brown. There are no other significant skin pigments.

In summary, from currently available information, the really important factor in determining skin color is melanin -- the amount produced.

This situation is true not only for skin color. Generally, whatever feature we may look at, no people group has anything that is essentially different from that possessed by any other. For example, the Asian, or almond, eye differs from a typical Caucasian eye in having more fat around them. Both Asian and Caucasian eyes have fat -- the latter simply have less.

What does melanin do?

It protects the skin against damage by ultraviolet light from the sun. If you have too little melanin in a very sunny environment, you will easily suffer sunburn and skin cancer. If you have a great deal of melanin, and you live in a country where there is little sunshine, it will be harder for you to get enough vitamin D (which needs sunshine for its production in your body). You may then suffer from vitamin D deficiency, which could cause a bone disorder such as rickets.

We also need to be aware that we are not born with a genetically fixed amount of melanin. Rather, we have a genetically fixed potential to produce a certain amount, and the amount increases in response to sunlight. For example, you may have noticed that when your Caucasian friends (who spent their time indoors during winter) headed for the beach at the beginning of summer they all had more or less the same pale white skin color. As the summer went on, however, some became much darker than others.

How is it that many different skin colors can arise in a short time? Remember, whenever we speak of different "colors" we are referring to different shades of the one color, melanin.

If a person from a very black people group marries someone from a very white group, their offspring (called mulattos) are mid-brown. It has long been known that when mulattos marry each other, their offspring may be virtually any "color," ranging from very dark to very light. Understanding this gives us the clues we need to answer our question, but first we must look, in a simple way, at some of the basic principles of heredity.

Each of us carries information in our body that describes us in the way a blueprint and specifications describe a furnished building. It determines not only that we will be human beings, rather than cabbages or crocodiles, but also whether we will have blue eyes, short nose, long legs, etc. When a sperm fertilizes an egg, all the information that specifies how the person will be built (ignoring such superimposed factors as exercise and diet) is already present. Most of this information is in coded form in our DNA.

To illustrate coding, a piece of string with beads on it can carry a message in Morse code. The piece of string, by the use of a simple sequence of short beads, long beads (to represent the dots and dashes of Morse code), and spaces, can carry the same information as the English word "help" typed on a sheet of paper. The entire Bible could be written thus in Morse code on a long enough piece of string.

In a similar way, the human blueprint is written in a code (or language convention) which is carried on very long chemical strings of DNA. This is by far the most efficient information storage system known, greatly surpassing any foreseeable computer technology.6 This information is copied (and reshuffled) from generation to generation as people reproduce.

The word "gene" refers to a small part of that information which has the instructions for only one type of enzyme, for example.7 It may be simply understood as a portion of the "message string" containing only one specification.

For example, there is one gene that carries the instructions for making hemoglobin, the protein that carries oxygen in your red blood cells. If that gene has been damaged by mutation (such as copying mistakes during reproduction), the instructions will be faulty, so it will often make a crippled form of hemoglobin, if any. (Diseases such as sickle-cell anemia and thalassemia result from such mistakes.)

So, with an egg which has just been fertilized -- where does all its information, its genes, come from? One half comes from the father (carried in the sperm), and the other half from the mother (carried in the egg).

Genes come in pairs, so in the case of hemoglobin, for example, we have two sets of code (instruction) for hemoglobin manufacture, one coming from the mother and one from the father.

This is a very useful arrangement, because if you inherit a damaged gene from one parent that could instruct your cells to produce a defective hemoglobin, you are still likely to get a normal one from the other parent which will continue to give the right instructions. Thus, only half the hemoglobin in your body will be defective. (In fact, each of us carries hundreds of genetic mistakes, inherited from one or the other of our parents, which are usefully "covered up" by being matched with a normal gene from the other parent.)

[godlovermarg45]

the bible does not condem mixed marrieges so why should anyone else if the person you want to date is baptized filled with the holyghost who are we to say that it is wrong .god so loved the world i believe this includes all people pray for gods will in your life

[Shauna]

Hey, I'm not posting for or against. Just posting a question about this and the endtime.

Yes, this has been going on a long time. This is not just a question for Aposolics. This is world wide. We on this earth is more and more losing our seperate idenities and becoming one again as before Babel. You are right. After generation and generation mixing you will not have seperate colors anymore. Not pure anyway. That is the way it is right now!



What's the big deal about being racially "pure"? That sounds like some serious KKK and skinhead rhetoric (I don't know you and I'm not saying that you are). I have heard those terms tossed out by those groups via their "Keep America White" propaganda. As a Christian I don't care to be identified with any group or ideology that promulgates hatred.


Wasn't it Moses that married an Ethiopian? I wonder if her being Black was part of the reason the Miriam and Aaron spoke against him?

[beckyball]

I am so sorry if I offended anyone. That was never my intention! I don't hate anyone! Just a deep thinker.

[godlovermarg45]

God So Loved The World The Whole World Everyone He Dosnt Care Who We Marry As Long As They Arebaptized In His Name Have The Holyghost Thats What On Equally Yoked Together Means

[Abigail4476]

We on this earth is more and more losing our seperate idenities and becoming one again as before Babel. You are right. After generation and generation mixing you will not have seperate colors anymore. Not pure anyway. That is the way it is right now!

I am so sorry if I offended anyone. That was never my intention! I don't hate anyone! Just a deep thinker.

Becky,

First of all, we don't have, nor should we attain to an identity other than being like Christ.

Secondly, the only line of separation for marriage that God laid out was one of believer/unbeliever. There are no other restrictions, and we do not have the right to place restrictions on something that God has not.

Racial purity doesn't mean anything at all. We are all tainted by sin, and that is what matters. We all need God's grace, and that is what matters. Christ died for everyone, without preference.

By the way, most of us are Gentiles, and the Gentiles have never been a "pure" bloodline.

Don't overthink this issue. It's very simple. It isn't deep at all. Just ask yourself:

1. Does it matter to God?
2. What does His Word say?

The answers to those questions are the only ones that matter. All other lines of thought are irrelevent and worldly.

[beckyball]

lol
yea, maybe that was why Jesus called the Gentile women a dog????? The Gentiles were known for their ways.
But did God didn't intend for us to stay that way after we are grafted in to be a Jew?

And I also thought I wrote in my post that I was not discussing whether it is right or wrong! Maybe no one read that! I was discussing endtimes and history. But it seems that everyone is stuck on that one topic and cannot look past that to something more deeper. The Bible says that some things may not be wrong or a sin but it is not something that is not expedient for us. It may not be a sin but a stumbling block. Or it may not be God's will.
Seems to me there is no moderation on this subject. The whites have gone from bashing, enslaving, fornication with, beating, selling, totally no love or respect for other peoples. Just take over and take their lands, their wifes and kids and make them theirs to now it has swung the other way and we should all be one. He did not make any of us better than others or love anyone more or less than anyone else. He did it to set boundries so the peoples of the world would not get back together again. Everytime it just causes trouble. Christ died for us all and He loves us all the same. We are suppose to love and respect each other. I just don't believe that God wanted the whole earth to be as one. That has nothing to do with I hate anyone or think I am better than anyone else. That is how the anti-christ is going to be able to be able to get the mark of the beast to work. The world is all becoming as one, in language, one world money, one world religion, and the anti-christ is going to take advantage of it and use it for his evil purpose. Just like this computer I am on may not be a sin, I sure am using it, but the anti-christ is going to probably use them for his purpose!

As I said before I was discussing how this all effects the end-time and not on if they should marry or not. I think we should go to God in prayer and ask His opinion on everything we do, from what we buy, to what we wear and as important as marriage is, of course ask God for His opinion not mine.

[Shauna]

lol
yea, maybe that was why Jesus called the Gentile women a dog????? The Gentiles were known for their ways.
But did God didn't intend for us to stay that way after we are grafted in to be a Jew?

And I also thought I wrote in my post that I was not discussing whether it is right or wrong! Maybe no one read that! I was discussing endtimes and history. But it seems that everyone is stuck on that one topic and cannot look past that to something more deeper. The Bible says that some things may not be wrong or a sin but it is not something that is not expedient for us. It may not be a sin but a stumbling block. Or it may not be God's will.
Seems to me there is no moderation on this subject. The whites have gone from bashing, enslaving, fornication with, beating, selling, totally no love or respect for other peoples. Just take over and take their lands, their wifes and kids and make them theirs to now it has swung the other way and we should all be one. He did not make any of us better than others or love anyone more or less than anyone else. He did it to set boundries so the peoples of the world would not get back together again. Everytime it just causes trouble. Christ died for us all and He loves us all the same. We are suppose to love and respect each other. I just don't believe that God wanted the whole earth to be as one. That has nothing to do with I hate anyone or think I am better than anyone else. That is how the anti-christ is going to be able to be able to get the mark of the beast to work. The world is all becoming as one, in language, one world money, one world religion, and the anti-christ is going to take advantage of it and use it for his evil purpose. Just like this computer I am on may not be a sin, I sure am using it, but the anti-christ is going to probably use them for his purpose!

As I said before I was discussing how this all effects the end-time and not on if they should marry or not. I think we should go to God in prayer and ask His opinion on everything we do, from what we buy, to what we wear and as important as marriage is, of course ask God for His opinion not mine.

Beckyball,

Eschatology and race relations is a very strange combination. How did you come to this notion in the first place? I'm a little concerned with your thinking. Have you discussed any of this with your pastor and/or church elders?

[tv3a]

I can't believe this is still being discussed. God knows no color. Interracial dating and marriage is allowed by God.

Here's the rule of thumb I am going to use if and when I allow my children to date. If they date a person of different ethniticity, I want to talk with them both ahead of time. In my area it's a status symbol on the street for a white girl to be with a black guy. Unfortunatley our area is populated with a lot of racists people. I know of many cases where interracial relationships began because they wanted to rebel against the culture. Those relationships are very rocky and seldom survive. I do know of situations where interracial couples got together because of mutual attraction. Those situations were more steady and not as tummultuous. I want to make sure my kids are dating for the right reasons. If they are dating a person just to get a response out of society, I will put stop to it. If they are dating because there is a general attraction and they meet the high standards established by the parent, than my kids can date anyone of any race.

[Abigail4476]

lol
yea, maybe that was why Jesus called the Gentile women a dog????? The Gentiles were known for their ways.
But did God didn't intend for us to stay that way after we are grafted in to be a Jew?
First of all, GOD is the One Who said not to be a respecter of persons. Argue with Him. Perhaps Jesus was testing her faith, but I can guarantee you HE would be the only one with the right to do that.

Secondly, if we are all grafted in to become spiritual Jews, then that makes us ALL Jews after conversion, so again, race and color become an irrelevent issue, don't they?

And I also thought I wrote in my post that I was not discussing whether it is right or wrong! Maybe no one read that! I was discussing endtimes and history. But it seems that everyone is stuck on that one topic and cannot look past that to something more deeper. The Bible says that some things may not be wrong or a sin but it is not something that is not expedient for us. It may not be a sin but a stumbling block. Or it may not be God's will.
I agree that you should seek God's will in every situation. What would be error would be declaring that marrying another race is out of God's will in every situation. There are, in fact, times when it is the perfect will of God for different races and cultures to mix.

Seems to me there is no moderation on this subject. The whites have gone from bashing, enslaving, fornication with, beating, selling, totally no love or respect for other peoples. Just take over and take their lands, their wifes and kids and make them theirs to now it has swung the other way and we should all be one.

Wicked behavior has always abounded in every culture. That isn't limited to the "the whites." There are Africans with dark skin who have taken part in bashing, enslaving, fornicating, beating, selling, and having no love and respect for other people. Sin is the common denominator of the human race. That's pretty much a moot point. It has nothing to do with how we approach other people in a Christlike manner.

He did not make any of us better than others or love anyone more or less than anyone else. He did it to set boundries so the peoples of the world would not get back together again.
No, He didn't. There was a punishment, but it wasn't permanent. If punishment were permanent, we would still be drowning unrighteous people to honor God's decision about the flood. That is very faulty logic. It is never our job to take a punishment God has doled out on a people and make it our own task. Never.

Everytime it just causes trouble. Christ died for us all and He loves us all the same. We are suppose to love and respect each other. I just don't believe that God wanted the whole earth to be as one.
Actually, that was His original plan. (Unless you think there was a separate Garden of Eden for each race.) God never intended for people to be at odds with one another. Also, in the Old Testament, the separation was always about religion and never about race. They were commanded not to mingle with those that "went after false gods."

That has nothing to do with I hate anyone or think I am better than anyone else. That is how the anti-christ is going to be able to be able to get the mark of the beast to work. The world is all becoming as one, in language, one world money, one world religion, and the anti-christ is going to take advantage of it and use it for his evil purpose. Just like this computer I am on may not be a sin, I sure am using it, but the anti-christ is going to probably use them for his purpose!
Becky, I don't think that you hate anyone or that you think you are superior. However, you shouldn't be getting upset over this conversation. It's a hot topic, and you cannot expect to put your views in without getting some passionate responses.

If you think that interracial marriage is how the anti-christ is going to take over, then I have to say: Too late. People have been inter-marrying for centuries, not just the last decade. People were marrying outside their race in Bible days. It isn't a recent phenomenon.

As I said before I was discussing how this all effects the end-time and not on if they should marry or not. I think we should go to God in prayer and ask His opinion on everything we do, from what we buy, to what we wear and as important as marriage is, of course ask God for His opinion not mine.
True. Some things, however, are already given to us in God's Word, so it would be silly to ignore His Word and then ask Him what He thinks. He has already told us.

James 2:9 "But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."

Romans 12:4 "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:"
Romans 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."

II Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

[beckyball]

Seems I have blown everyone's mind! And yes my dad was head deacon, teacher, and church Elder for many years!!!!!! I have seen many miracles in my home! What did I say that was so wrong? Should I ask my pastor if i should ask God and get his aproval before I marry or whether or not we should love everyone. Or should we discuss the endtime. Should I discuss with him whether I should own a computer, go with the charasmatic movement where all churches are getting together and none are wrong. What part of my post was so off, seeing as I did not say whether it is a sin to intermarry?

Since I have already blown everyones mind...

What about that Jesus was originally suppose to come through the linage of Japheth which was the eldest son and they were supost to inherit the material and spiritual birthrite but He did not, he came through Shem's lingage.
Obviously Japheth did not inherit the spirtual birthrite. We all know what Ham did, but why didn't Japheth? It seems that the eldest in most of the Old Testament did not inherit the spirtual birhtrite, like Esau and so forth. It is just wierd to think that Jesus could have came through or lintage of it had worked like it should have and Japhath would have been the son he should have.
Chew on this for a while. lol

[Abigail4476]

Here's something else odd that can be discussed:

Why is it that skin color is the only objection? Why is it okay for someone of Irish descent to marry someone of German ancestry? Why is it alright for someone with Indian blood to marry someone with Spanish roots? Why is it okay for cultures to intermingle, but not colors?

There seems to be no objection when other races, colors and cultures want to intermarry, but when a light-skinned person wants to marry a dark-skinned person--suddenly that's a problem. Doesn't that seem pretty lame to you?

Becky,

How will you apply this to your own life and to the lives of your children? Are you going to search through genealogies to make sure there are no impure contributors to the bloodline of your future husband or the future spouses of your children? Will you make sure that they were never "tainted?" Because surely to marry someone of an impure race would be to dishonor God's decision to separate the cultures!

I'm being a little bit facetious, but you really should consider some of this. Do you really believe this is an issue with God? The God who tore down the veil in the temple so we could all finally have unlimited access to Him without a priest? The God who has offered redemption to every man and woman, regardless of race, color, creed or culture?

If there is anyone who is Equal-Opportunity, it is God. He doesn't "respect persons." So then, those who are seeking to be like Him should not be respecters of persons either. We are supposed to be like Christ.

[Abigail4476]

Seems I have blown everyone's mind! And yes my dad was head deacon, teacher, and church Elder for many years!!!!!! I have seen many miracles in my home! What did I say that was so wrong? Should I ask my pastor if i should ask God and get his aproval before I marry or whether or not we should love everyone. Or should we discuss the endtime. Should I discuss with him whether I should own a computer, go with the charasmatic movement where all churches are getting together and none are wrong. What part of my post was so off, seeing as I did not say whether it is a sin to intermarry?

I don't think you've blown anyone's mind. LOL! You'll have to get a little deeper in the topic to do that. About the endtime...well...alright...but this thread is about dating outside your race. Do you really think the two topics are related, considering that people were mingling races as far back as Moses?

Since I have already blown everyones mind...

What about that Jesus was originally suppose to come through the linage of Japheth which was the eldest son and they were supost to inherit the material and spiritual birthrite but He did not, he came through Shem's lingage.
Obviously Japheth did not inherit the spirtual birthrite. We all know what Ham did, but why didn't Japheth? It seems that the eldest in most of the Old Testament did not inherit the spirtual birhtrite, like Esau and so forth. It is just wierd to think that Jesus could have came through or lintage of it had worked like it should have and Japhath would have been the son he should have.

What was unique about Japheth that would have "prevented" Jesus from coming through that lineage?

[beckyball]

First of all, GOD is the One Who said not to be a respecter of persons. Argue with Him. Perhaps Jesus was testing her faith, but I can guarantee you HE would be the only one with the right to do that.

Secondly, if we are all grafted in to become spiritual Jews, then that makes us ALL Jews after conversion, so again, race and color become an irrelevent issue, don't they?

i DON'T SEE HOW I AM A RESPECTER OF PERSONS BECAUSE I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULD NOT MARRY OUT OF YOUR RACE. NOT ONCE. IF IT IS IRREVELVENT THEN WHY KEEP DISCUSSING IT AND TALK ABOUT HOW IT MAY EFFECT THE ENDTIME.

I agree that you should seek God's will in every situation. What would be error would be declaring that marrying another race is out of God's will in every situation. There are, in fact, times when it is the perfect will of God for different races and cultures to mix.
NEVER SAID IN EVERY SITUATION OR ANY SITUATION THAT IT WOULD BE WRONG! NEVER SAID IT WAS WRONG! I WAS DISCUSSING HOW IT MAY EFFECT THE ENDTIMES.

Wicked behavior has always abounded in every culture. That isn't limited to the "the whites." There are Africans with dark skin who have taken part in bashing, enslaving, fornicating, beating, selling, and having no love and respect for other people. Sin is the common denominator of the human race. That's pretty much a moot point. It has nothing to do with how we approach other people in a Christlike manner.
I ONLY SAID THAT TO SHOW THAT MODERATION WAS NOT BEING USED. GOING FROM ONE EXTREME TO THE OTHER IN ANY SITUATION. IT WAS FOR AN EXAMPLE. SO I WILL USE ANOTHER. WOMEN! THEY GO FROM BEING TREATED AS THEIR HUSBANDS PROPERITY AND NO RIGHTS AS A INDIVIDAUL PERSON TO NOW WOMEN ARE ACTING LIKE THE MAN AND WANTING TO RUN EVERYTHING! I WAS TRYING TO GET A POINT ACROSS ABOUT HUMAN NATURE.

No, He didn't. There was a punishment, but it wasn't permanent. If punishment were permanent, we would still be drowning unrighteous people to honor God's decision about the flood. That is very faulty logic. It is never our job to take a punishment God has doled out on a people and make it our own task. Never.
THAT WAS GODS DECISION, HE DID THE FLOODING NOT US! AND HE IS STILL GOING TO PUNISH THE UNJUST WITH FIRE! IT IS NOT OUR DECISION???? GOD MAKES THE DECISIONS AND PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER MAKE IT THEIR TASK. I AGREE. I NEVER DISAGREED! I HAVE NEVER DREAMED OF PUNISHING ANYONE BUT MY CHILDREN! LOL

Actually, that was His original plan. (Unless you think there was a separate Garden of Eden for each race.) God never intended for people to be at odds with one another. Also, in the Old Testament, the separation was always about religion and never about race. They were commanded not to mingle with those that "went after false gods."
YES IT WAS HIS ORIGINAL PLAN BUT MAN AND WOMEN MADE A BAD CHOICE AND CHANGED IT. IF THEY WERE SUPPOSE TO MINGLE THEN WHY DID GOD GO TO THE TROUBLE OF MAKING THEM DIFFENENT. MAYBE HE HAD A PLAN, LIKE A PUZZLE, AND WE DO NOT KNOW ALL THE PIECES. AND IF GOD DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE DIFFERENT RACES AND ALL WHY DID HE SAY THAT JAPHETH WAS GOING TO HAVE TO DWELL IN THE TENTS OF SHEM AND THAT HAM'S DECENDENTS WAS GOING TO BE THE SLAVES OF THE OTHERS? I NEVER SAID IT WAS WRONG, WE ALL STARTED IN THE SAME PLACE WITH THE SAME PARENTS. ALL I SAID WAS MAYBE GOD HAD A PLAN FOR WHAT HE DID.

Becky, I don't think that you hate anyone or that you think you are superior. However, you shouldn't be getting upset over this conversation. It's a hot topic, and you cannot expect to put your views in without getting some passionate responses.

If you think that interracial marriage is how the anti-christ is going to take over, then I have to say: Too late. People have been inter-marrying for centuries, not just the last decade. People were marrying outside their race in Bible days. It isn't a recent phenomenon.
I AM NOT UPSET, WHAT GAVE YOU THAT IDEA? ACTUALLY I AM ENJOYING IT!MY DAD AND I USE TO SIT UP ALL NIGHT IN BIBLE DISCUSSIONS! IT IS GOOD AS LONG AS NOONE GETS MAD. IT MAKES YOU THINK AND LEARN DIFFERNET WAYS OF LOOKING AT THINGS.
YES, IT HAS BEEN GOING ON A LONG TIME AS I MENTIONED IN AN EARLIER POST. SO HAS GETTING OUR MONEY ALL AS ONE, DOING AWAY WITH CASH, GETTING ALL RELIGIONS BACK TOGETHER. THIS ALL GOES BACK TO THE GARDEN OF EDEN. JUST LIKE GOD GAVE MY DAD A VISION ABOUT THE TWO HORNED BEAST OF REVELATION AND WHO THE TWO HORNS IS TODAY AND ABOUT THE MASONIC LODGE, (BY THE WAY, THEY TRIED TO KILL HIM). gOD TOOK HIM ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE GARDEN OF EDEN AND SHOWED HIM WHERE IT ALL STARTED AND ALL THE WAY THROUGH UNITL TODAY.
True. Some things, however, are already given to us in God's Word, so it would be silly to ignore His Word and then ask Him what He thinks. He has already told us.

James 2:9 "But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."

Romans 12:4 "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:"
Romans 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."

II Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"
WHAT? THAT WAS NOT WHAT I MEANT! I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WOULD NOT TALK TO GOD ABOUT WHO THEY WOULD MARRY. IT DOES NOT LIST EACH OF US BY NAME IN THE BIBLE AND TELL US WHO WE SHOULD MARRY. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAT MOST OF THE ORIGINAL POST ON THIS TOPIC THAT WE SHOULD PRAY AND FAST BEFORE WE DO ANYTHING. IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN I SHOULD HAVE MARRIED AN ISSAC (SINCE MY NAME IS REBEKAH) AND NOT A DAVID. OUT OF MY TIME PERIOD!!
LOL

[Abigail4476]

Becky,

You really need to discard the yelling in CAPS. It's not necessary. :p

[Abigail4476]

i DON'T SEE HOW I AM A RESPECTER OF PERSONS BECAUSE I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULD NOT MARRY OUT OF YOUR RACE. NOT ONCE. IF IT IS IRREVELVENT THEN WHY KEEP DISCUSSING IT AND TALK ABOUT HOW IT MAY EFFECT THE ENDTIME.

I said that, in reference to being "grafted-in-Jews", the issue of race would remain irrelevant. I did not say that this topic is irrelevent.

NEVER SAID IN EVERY SITUATION OR ANY SITUATION THAT IT WOULD BE WRONG! NEVER SAID IT WAS WRONG! I WAS DISCUSSING HOW IT MAY EFFECT THE ENDTIMES.

Alright. And I'm disagreeing with you. I don't believe it effects the endtime at all.


I ONLY SAID THAT TO SHOW THAT MODERATION WAS NOT BEING USED. GOING FROM ONE EXTREME TO THE OTHER IN ANY SITUATION. IT WAS FOR AN EXAMPLE. SO I WILL USE ANOTHER. WOMEN! THEY GO FROM BEING TREATED AS THEIR HUSBANDS PROPERITY AND NO RIGHTS AS A INDIVIDAUL PERSON TO NOW WOMEN ARE ACTING LIKE THE MAN AND WANTING TO RUN EVERYTHING! I WAS TRYING TO GET A POINT ACROSS ABOUT HUMAN NATURE.

Human nature is sinful. We shouldn't use it as our role model. Christ is our role model. The fact that humans swing back and forth from one ideal to another is a prime reason why we shouldn't focus on human behavior to reach conclusions and form belief systems.

THAT WAS GODS DECISION, HE DID THE FLOODING NOT US! AND HE IS STILL GOING TO PUNISH THE UNJUST WITH FIRE! IT IS NOT OUR DECISION???? GOD MAKES THE DECISIONS AND PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER MAKE IT THEIR TASK. I AGREE. I NEVER DISAGREED! I HAVE NEVER DREAMED OF PUNISHING ANYONE BUT MY CHILDREN! LOL

My point was, it is not our job to "make sure" that cultures still remain separated. Obviously God was capable of separating them the first time, and He can do it again if He sees fit.

YES IT WAS HIS ORIGINAL PLAN BUT MAN AND WOMEN MADE A BAD CHOICE AND CHANGED IT. IF THEY WERE SUPPOSE TO MINGLE THEN WHY DID GOD GO TO THE TROUBLE OF MAKING THEM DIFFENENT. MAYBE HE HAD A PLAN, LIKE A PUZZLE, AND WE DO NOT KNOW ALL THE PIECES. AND IF GOD DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE DIFFERENT RACES AND ALL WHY DID HE SAY THAT JAPHETH WAS GOING TO HAVE TO DWELL IN THE TENTS OF SHEM AND THAT HAM'S DECENDENTS WAS GOING TO BE THE SLAVES OF THE OTHERS? I NEVER SAID IT WAS WRONG, WE ALL STARTED IN THE SAME PLACE WITH THE SAME PARENTS. ALL I SAID WAS MAYBE GOD HAD A PLAN FOR WHAT HE DID.

Where did I say that "God did not know about the different races?" I would never say that. God knows everything, and He certainly knew who was who in Noah's family. What makes you think that was more than just prophetic? Do you think that Ham's descendents were commanded to be slaves? Or that Japheth's descendents were commanded to be tent-dwellers? Because if that's the case, then they would still have to do so or risk being disobedient to God.

That's prophecy, not a commandment.

[beckyball]

I did not consider myself yelling. I do not know how to use the quote on here. So I did that to show the difference what he said and what I was answering back.