Soul Ties - something ALL singles need to know about!

[jdcord]

I posted this on another board, and thought i'd see what people here think about it:

1st Corinthians 6:13-18

13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Genesis 2:22-24
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

When does God make a man and a woman "one flesh"? When they take their vows of marraige? When they commit to each other? (*buzzer sound*) I'm sorry. You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

Nope. The answer is none of the above. Paul let's us know when that magical moment actually takes place: it takes place at intercourse! That is why when a man has sex with a harlot, Paul says he becomes "one flesh" with the harlot. Did he marry the harlot? Did they commit to each other? Nope. They just had sex. A one night stand. But they are now joined together forever as "one flesh".

Now then, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin, but not from the results of sin - you still reap what you sowed. If you lost an arm in a drunk driving incident before coming to the Lord, God doesn't miraculously restore your arm when you get the Holy Ghost. Unless God performs a separate work of restoration, you will live with that "result" of your previous sin for the rest of your life - you will NOT regain your arm back, it's gone and that is that.

So then, what about people that had many "relationships" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) before coming to the Lord? Exactly how many people can a person be "joined" with (one flesh) and still be able to carry on a healthy marital relationship (whenever that may come)?? After all, their sin is forgiven and washed away, but the fruit or harvest of that sin (the soul tie - "one flesh") is still to be dealt with. The "result" of their sin (just like that lost arm) is still there until God performs a separate work. They are still "one flesh" with all those people they slept with - even if it was just a one night stand with a harlot! (or anyone else for that matter)

If you are considering dating, currently dating, and/or considering marrying someone that had numerous "escapades" before coming to church, you need to pray for God to perform that separate miracle of breaking those soul ties, otherwise there will be some problems in the relationship. After all, how can you give all of your heart to one person, when it is already divided amongst numerous others that you are "one flesh" with??

Again, those ties are not broken at salvation. They are not sin in and of themselves. They are a result of sin; the fruit of sin. And as such, being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost doesn't get rid of them. If you amassed a huge debt from gambling, and everything you own will be repossessed tomorrow, just because you get baptized and receive the Holy Ghost tonight doesn't mean you won't have to deal with the fruit of your sin tomorrow. The repo guys are still coming (unless God performs a separate work/miracle to deal with them). Just because the sin that bore the fruit of debt has been forgiven, the actual fruit of your sin (the debt & the repo guys) must still be dealt with. In like fashion, just because the sin that bore the fruit of the soul ties has now been forgiven, the fruit is still there, and must be dealt with separately.

If you yourself had such "relationships" before coming to know God, pray for him to break those soul ties. 'Cause if you don't, you will have serious problems giving your whole heart to anyone - in fact, it will be absolutely impossible.

[In His Service]

How about giving further ideas on what your idea of exactly one flesh means? How do they become one flesh?

Bro. Timothy

[ddc101]

Bro.I cannot buy the idea that becoming one flesh is becoming one Soul.Soul ties I feel is a charismatic idea and doctrine.
We are not joined spiritually to any other but Jesus Christ.
If not then my husband could drag me to hell if he were lost.
I have lived with him when he was not living for God and believe me it did not conflict with my made up mind.Nor did I receive those spirits within my spirit.There is precious blood covering my soul.What some want to blame on past relationships is actually just a need for good old fashioned repentance and praying through.

I believe repentance and new birth takes care of that.Now after joining yourself to Jesus Christ I believe its called Spiritual Adultry.
In the natural its called fornication and adultry.These are things that take us without the gate of the Kingdom of God and we need to repent in order to be again within the kingdom.I believe maybe habits and unrepented feelings that are not biblically based can result in spirits having dominion over certain areas of our lives.But that is cause for deliverance.sis.c

[jdcord]

ddc,

I wasn't actually claiming that they become "one soul". Just that they are "joined" together in the same way that God joins any man and wife together. Obviously there is some sort of spiritual connection made at that time. As to the exact nature of that unity, only God knows what that is. Genesis describes it as becoming "one flesh", Paul describes it as being "one body".

As to where you got the idea that I was saying that someone else's sins can drag you to hell, I have no idea how you inferred that.

I simply use the term "soul ties" because that is the term I have always heard used. I don't know why Christians have taken to calling it that? But regardless, the principles I described are very much biblical. If you have a better term or phrase that would describe the physical and spiritual union that takes place at intercourse, then by all means let me know what it is.

As for the other issue,

The new birth takes care of sin, and the eternal penalty for sin (the second death). But since that man that lost his arm doesn't get his arm back, and since that gambler with the debt is not freed from that debt - just because they both had the new birth - I don't quite see how you can claim that the results of sin (the reaping of what we have sowed, as opposed to God's punishment) is somehow wiped away along with the sin.

The joining of two people as "one flesh" is not a punishment for sin, it is a spiritual law that God has put in place. It just happens, period. Therefore why should this "result" (as opposed to a punishment) of an action we took in our past be wiped away at the new birth, when no other "results" of our previous actions are? God's penalties are certainly wiped away, but the seeds we sowed in our past will still produce their fruit here in this life (but thankfully, that fruit is not eternal, only temporal).

[jdcord]

Originally posted by In His Service
How about giving further ideas on what your idea of exactly one flesh means? How do they become one flesh?

Bro. Timothy
Hmmmmm, that is a VERY good question.

I really don't know all the details of what the Bible means by this term, but I can tell you from my own experience, and from that which many others have described to me:

When you are "one flesh" with someone, and that someone is no longer around, every part of you will "long" for them. It's not just your flesh that will, but your heart and soul will long for them. When this would happen to me (before I came to an understanding of all this), my mind would be thinking perfectly rationally, "why am I feeling this way?, I haven't seen this person in many years. I barely even knew them!" But while my mind was thinking about it rationally, every other part of my being was screaming at the top of it's lungs for this person. That's what I mean by "longing" for them. It was far more than physical.

Since then - after I prayed for God to break the ties (the joining) with this person that had been formed when I sinned with them - the memories of them may still creep in here and there. But only my body (my flesh) still feels anything for them. That "screaming", or "longing", from within is 100% gone! To me, that means that God has clearly broken that union. But it definitely didn't happen at the new birth. It was a separate work that God had to do for me. And he had to do it for more than one such union, unfortunately.

In counseling, many people have described the exact same thing.

So to sum it up, I can't tell you exactly what I, or even the Bible, means by "one flesh". But I know that whatever "joining" it is that God's laws automatically do at intercourse, it is far more than just physical. And that such "joinings" are not undone when we are "born again" (they aren't even technically a punishment).

[nytxn1971]

I'm in agreement with what you've said, jd.

Been there... done that.

Even after the ties are broken, the memories and flashbacks remain.
*shudders*

It can be difficult to remove those because, as you said, you've been joined to that person. They become a part of you and even though you may have asked God to kill those ties, there are pieces of them that still remain and fight you. Just something else you need to get victory over...

*sigh*

This is humiliating for me, but if can be used to help someone, I'll gladly share it... I hope I don't say something out of line... Mods, feel free to edit if needed.

I lost my virginity at 17 (that's 'old' compared to the sexually active kids now-a-days). However, I'd been hooked on sex before I ever lost my virginity, if you catch my drift. So when I finally lost 'it', I was immediately hooked on that type of sex as well. I had a few partners from that time until the point I got in church. But after I walked away from God, 4 years later, that's when my activity really picked up... (Gee.. I wonder why? Matt 12:43-45)

While I was backslidden (7 years), I had many partners. I dated a few women at a time, and when I was in a 'committed' relationship, I would occasionally dabble with other women. I've even persuaded certain women to commit adultery, and a few times, I've been persuaded by them to help them cheat. I was a jerk. A low-down, rotten, manipulating, demon-possessed, sexually addicted jerk. I was bound hard by lust and I did whatever I could to satisfy it.

I was delivered from it when I got baptized again with the Holy Ghost early last year, but I still had to fight tooth and nail for a while to stay above it.

The hardest part to overcome was the constant resurfacing of the memories of previous 'incidents' and the parties involved. Even now, I still get the occasional flashback that catches me off guard, but they are just a shadow of what they used to be, and I know how to fight them off now.

Anyway... sorry for such a long post.

Bottom line... if someone who's never had sex is reading this, WAIT until you get married (to someone you KNOW -through much prayer and fasting- God has sent your way for marriage) to have it, because if you don't... you will be sorry. It will be a very difficult battle to overcome... not to mention all the damage you can do to your body (sickness, death, etc.) because of just one simple 'mistake'.

[Joan]

There's a good book called Every Man's Battle. Authors are Steve Arterburn. It's a good book about this sort of thing that men deal with. It was good for me to read it because I not only have a husband but I have two young sons. I don't remember them saying anything about the plan of salvation although if I read an author that is trinitarian I dismiss any of the foo foo - doo doo stuff anyway.

[In His Service]

cord,
Why is it that we do not read in the Word of God of them becoming one soul, mind, or spirit?

I believe a great key to understanding is in that question.

Many people are correct that when they commit fornication with someone before they are married, it ingrains something in a part of thier mind. It is a seed of sin that was sown in the mind. The fornication was a sin against ones own body.

To be joined with someone, when speaking of the harlot, is the polite way of saying that a act of fornication has taken place. We can see the same usage in strong's -2853, that does not speak of a "Soul Tie".

Bro. Timothy

[jdcord]

When they commit fornication with someone, they ARE married. That is when they are joined together in the very manner that Genesis discusses for a man and a wife.

Do you believe that God joins a man and his wife in some sort of spiritual bond when they become man and wife? Or is that which "God has joined together" just physical?

Paul used the same terminology for the man and the harlot that Moses used for a man and his wife: they are "joined"; they become "one flesh"; they become "one body". It's pretty clear to me - by God's laws, they are man and wife (regardless of whether we in this world acknowledge it or not).

I have experienced what I am talking about, and have ministered to many that have experienced the same thing. Can all those who attest to these things just be discounted so easily? When so many will attest that this is what they experienced, does it not at least make you stop and consider that perhaps there is more to this than you have previously thought?

[jdcord]

Originally posted by In His Service
cord,
Why is it that we do not read in the Word of God of them becoming one soul, mind, or spirit?

I believe a great key to understanding is in that question.
The problem with that question is that I never said they became any of those things. I said that they are joined in the same a man and his wife are joined, and that it is a bond that only God can break.

Many people are correct that when they commit fornication with someone before they are married, it ingrains something in a part of thier mind.
It does more than that. It marries them (by God's laws, not the state's)


It is a seed of sin that was sown in the mind.
Nope, it is the identical seed that is sown when a man takes a wife. That is why it is a sin. Because such a "joining" and "uniting" (of more than just bodies) was not meant to be done outside the commitment between a man and his wife.


To be joined with someone, when speaking of the harlot, is the polite way of saying that a act of fornication has taken place.
Then why does he use the wording of Genesis (for a man and his wife) and say that they become "one flesh"?
If that part wasn't in there, I could see your point. But since that part is in there, it makes the "joining" comment something far more than you are giving it credit for.

[In His Service]

Cord,

How do you exactly get your ideas that becoming one flesh is more that just the coming together physically? I am not saying that you are wrong or right, but desire your ideas further.

I do believe that God meant for a man and wife to have only one person with which they have a physical relationship with.

How do you explain to others that they where really married to the person the where with physically and then they not have to have a bill of divorcement. Did the person commit fornication with the next person they had a relationship with or adultry in your thoughts.

Thanks for responding,
Bro. Timothy

[jdcord]

Originally posted by In His Service
Cord,

How do you exactly get your ideas that becoming one flesh is more that just the coming together physically? I am not saying that you are wrong or right, but desire your ideas further.
Good question.

I am not by any means an expert on all this stuff, but doesn't the Bible talk about the union that God will make causing a man to "cleave" to his wife? I suppose some could say that too is only physical, but realistically this is discussing something that takes place in man's inner being. "Cleaving" to our spouse is in the exact same sentence with becoming "one flesh". So that is why I think there is much more to it than just a mere physical union.

This also would explain why I and others have described that inner "longing" (that "every part of our being" screaming out) for a person that we may have known from as little as one night to as long as several years: the reason we feel (felt) that way is because when we joined as "one flesh" with them, that also caused for our inner being to "cleave" to them in some manner. Not because we wanted to, or were in some way emotionally susceptible to that, but because it is God's laws that He has set in place, and they are automatic and cannot be avoided.

I do believe that God meant for a man and wife to have only one person with which they have a physical relationship with.
Most definitely!

How do you explain to others that they where really married to the person the where with physically and then they not have to have a bill of divorcement. Did the person commit fornication with the next person they had a relationship with or adultry in your thoughts.
Alright!! Now we're really talking! That is a great question!

I explain to them that they were joined as "one flesh". I never say that they were actually "married" That is just an opinion that I am still formulating, really. I would never say that in a counseling session because I have not studied that concept out to that extent yet, and I would prefer to discuss it with my own pastor (once I do come to final conclusion on it) and get his opinion. However, I have no problem throwing out that concept here on a discussion board, since we are just talking, after all.

So really, it isn't an issue yet. I simply let them know that they are joined as "one flesh" with those people from their past, and that we need to pray for God to break those unions.

BUT...... if I ever come to the final conclusion that they were "married", I will consider your question very carefully. For now, I would say that an answer might be that those "marraiges" were in the past, and they are under the blood (i.e., God deals with them the same as he does any legal marraige we may have divorced from before we were born again). But that's just off the top of my head.

[jdcord]

Oh yes, and discussing legal marraiges we may have divorced from before we were born again,

Those too are unions that we need to ask God to break. Otherwise, we are still "cleaviing" to them as well. Just 'cause the state broke the marraige doesn't mean that God did.

[Felicity]

I think that soul ties are possible in more ways than just a physical or sexual union.

Friendships can also result in soul ties, and the severing of close long-term friendships can leave a person gut wrenchingly lonely where even years later you still miss the individuals and the intense emotional desire or "inner longing" as it has been described elsewhere for the relationship you had with those people is still there.

[nytxn1971]

Good point, Felicity. Jonathan and David had such a bond.

[Felicity]

I am wondering if soul ties are made in every case with multiple sexual partners? Or just certain of those individuals?

Guess I'm still thinking on this soul tie thing as it was initially presented. Not so sure I agree, but nonetheless I think the warning is plausible.

[foreverblessed]

Falicity,
quote:
Friendships can also result in soul ties, and the severing of close long-term friendships can leave a person gut wrenchingly lonely where even years later you still miss the individuals and the intense emotional desire or "inner longing" as it has been described elsewhere for the relationship you had with those people is still there.

This is so true! I formed a friendship like this a while back with someone. It was difficult to break that tie.

[Thelordisone]

Our marriage is compared to the Churchs marriage with Christ.

There must be commitment, love, faitfullness, etc, etc.

This did the Lord say become one flesh.

So, one that simply had sexual relations is by no means joined neither physical nor soul wise. Because the biblical foundation was not there.

Thus, sexual sins are taking place. Be it fornication or adultery.

[jdcord]

Then why did Paul say the become "one flesh", using the very phrase that Genesis uses to describe the union between a man and his wife?

[Felicity]

This is so true! I formed a friendship like this a while back with someone. It was difficult to break that tie.

Right. I know how difficult it is also to break those kind of ties. There are people with who I had very close relationship for many years which dissipated practically overnight. I have still not gotten completely over the loss of those relationships.

I have never had sexual relationship with anyone except the man I married so I can't speak from experience in regard to multiple sexual partners and soul ties, but I wonder if it is really true because I think it takes more than a one night stand (sexually speaking) to create a soul tie to someone.

I think that the elements of the amount of time people have been in relationship together, emotional connection, & common interests, (among others) would have a bearing on whether or not a person actually develops a "soul tie" with someone else.

I do know for sure that soul ties can develop without sex in the picture.

[foreverblessed]

Quote:
I think that the elements of the amount of time people have been in relationship together, emotional connection, & common interests, (among others) would have a bearing on whether or not a person actually develops a "soul tie" with someone else.

I do know for sure that soul ties can develop without sex in the picture

me
This is so true, especially when there is a strong emotional connection bonded by common interest.

[Felicity]

Right.

I mean.... I think Jd makes a good point and it definitely has merit...*s*..... but I don't think that just sleeping with someone i.e. as in sex.....necessarily means a soul tie with that individual will automatically follow.

Just my very humble and inexperienced opinion of course.

:)

[Renee29]

I disagree......when I came to God, I repented for prior realtionships and have never had a problem in the past 11 years. It's almost like it never happened. However, I did not have any sexual addictions.

[Marie]

This is just my opinion, and I haven't done much study, so take it or leave it.
I think you are all right to an extent.
I am ashamed to say that I had multiple relationships before coming to God. And I have found that there is a tie formed when you have sex with a person, even if only one time. The tie is definately(or should be) stronger with marriage. I'm not sure if I would call it a soul tie but maybe an emotional tie or link. Whether good or bad, it's definately more than physical. And I also know that ties are made even if there is no intercourse. There does not need to be intercourse involved for fornication to have been committed. The Bible says that if a man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has commited adultry with her already. (paraphrased) Such is the case in the problem with an addiction or lust before intercourse. The ties are also there for someone who has been molested, although there is much more involved here. Whatever the situation, there are definately ties other than physical. There are also spirits involve where lust or addiction is concerned.
As you said, jdcord, these ties are not sin, but the results of sin. I believe these things CAN be dealt with at the time repentance by asking God to break the ties to that person or lust. Often though, these things don't come tormenting us right then. Either that or we don't understand what is happening or how to deal with them. Sometimes, we may think we have dealt with something but really have not. I think you have something here Brother. There are several young girls (and older ones) that I've been working with that could definately benifit from this! Thank you for bringing it up!

You know, I think this can be helpful for any area of sin that keeps sticking it's ugly head up.

[ddc101]

I think the word Soul Tie is a charismatic term used very freely and has no biblical basis.If everyone you had slept with were your husband or wife then the bible would not call it adultry nor would the old testament have called one the wife,one the concubine etc.No I disagree.I believe that yes you are affected by past images and emotional hurts but to call it a soul tie is entirely unbiblical.lv sis.c

[jdcord]

Originally posted by Marie
This is just my opinion, and I haven't done much study, so take it or leave it.
I think you are all right to an extent.
I am ashamed to say that I had multiple relationships before coming to God. And I have found that there is a tie formed when you have sex with a person, even if only one time. The tie is definately(or should be) stronger with marriage. I'm not sure if I would call it a soul tie but maybe an emotional tie or link. Whether good or bad, it's definately more than physical. And I also know that ties are made even if there is no intercourse. There does not need to be intercourse involved for fornication to have been committed. The Bible says that if a man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has commited adultry with her already. (paraphrased) Such is the case in the problem with an addiction or lust before intercourse. The ties are also there for someone who has been molested, although there is much more involved here. Whatever the situation, there are definately ties other than physical. There are also spirits involve where lust or addiction is concerned.
As you said, jdcord, these ties are not sin, but the results of sin. I believe these things CAN be dealt with at the time repentance by asking God to break the ties to that person or lust. Often though, these things don't come tormenting us right then. Either that or we don't understand what is happening or how to deal with them. Sometimes, we may think we have dealt with something but really have not. I think you have something here Brother. There are several young girls (and older ones) that I've been working with that could definately benifit from this! Thank you for bringing it up!

You know, I think this can be helpful for any area of sin that keeps sticking it's ugly head up.
You're more than welcome, Marie.

I'm glad it could help. That was why I posted it.

[jdcord]

Originally posted by ddc101
I think the word Soul Tie is a charismatic term used very freely and has no biblical basis.If everyone you had slept with were your husband or wife then the bible would not call it adultry nor would the old testament have called one the wife,one the concubine etc.No I disagree.I believe that yes you are affected by past images and emotional hurts but to call it a soul tie is entirely unbiblical.lv sis.c
If we called it "Flesh Ties" instead, would that help?

:D

Aside from the title, phrase, or term that is used, what about the principle being implied by those scriptures, and how does it apply?

[Marrayjor]

This is a good post, and something that i am recently dealing with so i know it is answered prayer.
I have a question,
My husband backsled and left me for another woman about 2 years ago, and we soon divorced. I am a single mom raising 3 beautiful children. Ok, what i am dealing with is moving on. i am putting God first in my life, and clinging to him. But like your earlier posts said, i still long for my ex husband. I feel like he was the one who left, not me, he broke the commitment, not me. I have not had any other relationships since he has left or since i have come to God 6 years ago. Currently, there is someone who i might be interested in, but part of my heart still belongs to my ex husband, so i am divided and i dont want to get into a relationship if it is not right. So are you saying that i need to pray to God to ask Him to take my husband out of my heart? I do appreciate all of you.

[jdcord]

Originally posted by Marrayjor
This is a good post, and something that i am recently dealing with so i know it is answered prayer.
I have a question,
My husband backsled and left me for another woman about 2 years ago, and we soon divorced. I am a single mom raising 3 beautiful children. Ok, what i am dealing with is moving on. i am putting God first in my life, and clinging to him. But like your earlier posts said, i still long for my ex husband. I feel like he was the one who left, not me, he broke the commitment, not me. I have not had any other relationships since he has left or since i have come to God 6 years ago. Currently, there is someone who i might be interested in, but part of my heart still belongs to my ex husband, so i am divided and i dont want to get into a relationship if it is not right. So are you saying that i need to pray to God to ask Him to take my husband out of my heart? I do appreciate all of you.
Is it definitely over? Has your ex re-married?, moved in with anyone? Have you prayed and felt a release from God to move on with your life, in the sense that God may bring another person to you that you can date and/or wed?

Not being your pastor, I would hesitate to say anything outright without including a whole lot of if's in there. For instance, "if" you have prayed and felt from God that it is officially over, and that you should move on in dating, and even possible future marraige, and "if" you have discussed it with your pastor and he has prayed and felt confirmation that this is indeed the case, "then" I would say that yes, you should pray for God to break the spiritual, emotional, and fleshly ties from that marraige. :D

Sorry, but having pastored a Spanish work at one point, I know that I would have had a hissy fit if someone had taken it upon themselves to counsel someone in that work on such a matter, with complete disregard to those big if's. :)

[Marrayjor]

My ex is living with his girlfriend and they are expecting their second child, he hasnt married her. He is not happy, he is away from God /family and he knows it. He has told me that he is so sorry for what he has done to our family, but that he is going to live with what he has now, basically he made his bed, he is going to lay in it. I have prayed for God to release me from this, I feel like i have been waiting for him to come back to us, so i have been taking it day by day.
I havent talked to my Pastor about this in a while, when i was going through the divorce we counseled and he told me that i was biblically released from him and able to marry someone else. But of course i was not ready to do that .

[jhlent]

Originally posted by Marrayjor
This is a good post, and something that i am recently dealing with so i know it is answered prayer.
I have a question,
My husband backsled and left me for another woman about 2 years ago, and we soon divorced. I am a single mom raising 3 beautiful children. Ok, what i am dealing with is moving on. i am putting God first in my life, and clinging to him. But like your earlier posts said, i still long for my ex husband. I feel like he was the one who left, not me, he broke the commitment, not me. I have not had any other relationships since he has left or since i have come to God 6 years ago. Currently, there is someone who i might be interested in, but part of my heart still belongs to my ex husband, so i am divided and i dont want to get into a relationship if it is not right. So are you saying that i need to pray to God to ask Him to take my husband out of my heart? I do appreciate all of you.

Sister - You are in a very hard place
A place were very few have been, and MANY have directions for You.

Please tread slowly - carefully - pray-fully
Your loneliness could become Your enemy if Your not careful.

Tho others may have good advice - if they haven’t gone through this, they just don’t know the pains and heart aches that we go through.
The part of You that still longs to Your ex - needs to be checked by You and the Lord.
Please make sure that it’s not “Your” longing for him still, sometimes it’s just hard to give up. Our desires sometimes confuse us as to what is going on.

If there is someone that You “might” be interested in - find out
Go out to dinner with that person and a few others - don’t do a date - just go to dinner as friends and see what happens, see where the Lord leads. GO SLOW

If there is something there - Yes by all means pray & fast, and ask the Lord to remove your ex from your emotions, and life.

[jhlent]

P.S.
Sister - Marrayjor
I have been going through it for over 10 yrs.

[jhlent]

The first 3 years were filled with “Job’s Comforters”
Theses did more harm than good.

I had desired that She would come back to both the Marriage and the Lord.

I have resigned to - Praying that She would just come back to the Lord, she also has my Son with her.

But when I still look at her - I still feel something for her - not as it was, but I still feel something for her.
And I know that the reason that I do is mainly because I don’t have anyone else in my life taking up that empty void of emotions and comfort.
But I guard these feelings. I am cautious of these feelings because they can - if unchecked - lead me astray. - - Loneliness is a dangerous enemy.
Surround Your self with good Godly Friends - Renew Your Love affair with Jesus Christ - before anything else.............................

[jdcord]

Please tread slowly - carefully - pray-fully
Your loneliness could become Your enemy if Your not careful.
Great advice, jhlent.

[jdcord]

Originally posted by Marrayjor
My ex is living with his girlfriend and they are expecting their second child, he hasnt married her. He is not happy, he is away from God /family and he knows it. He has told me that he is so sorry for what he has done to our family, but that he is going to live with what he has now, basically he made his bed, he is going to lay in it. I have prayed for God to release me from this, I feel like i have been waiting for him to come back to us, so i have been taking it day by day.
I havent talked to my Pastor about this in a while, when i was going through the divorce we counseled and he told me that i was biblically released from him and able to marry someone else. But of course i was not ready to do that .
Well, if your pastor has prayed and felt that you are released from it, but you do not feel that way yourself (and that is the impression I get from your post), then I would first pray that if indeed you are released, that God will confirm that to you personally (whether thru your pastor again, or in some other way). You need to feel and believe the same thing your own self before you can properly move on.

But as jhlent said, take it very slowly, because your loneliness can definitely become a very dangerous (and deceitful) enemy.

[Berean]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this board. I recently dealt with an issue that I would like you all to respond to.

It kind of ties in with this topic, I think.

I have been saved for several years, but before salvation, I had several sex partners. That was years ago, though. I recently met a sister in the Lord that I am interested in, and we have had intimate and personal discussions.

She, I believe, shared a mutual interest in me. Things were going well until I revealed my sexual history. She told me that she thinks God will send her someone that is just as she is (she is a virgin). She didn't come out and say that she was no longer interested, but the fruit that she would bear (shorter conversations, sounding less enthusiastic, etc.) had led me to believe that my sexual history has destroyed her interest in me.

I'm still interested in her, but honestly, her behavior left me a bit depressed. I mean I did not grow up around the Lord and in the Truth, and she did. She and I come from different backgrounds, but I am saved, so I am clean, right?

I think so, so should it matter that I am not a virgin?

Sorry for getting so personal here but I wanted to know what you all thought about my issue.

Sincerely,

Brother Berean

[jhlent]

Well - First off
Welcome to the "Good News Cafe" - Berean

[Marie]

Yes, Welcome Berean!

[Berean]

Hello John and Marie,

Thank you for the words of welcome.

What do you think about my issue?

Brother Berean

[Marie]

Yes, Berean, I believe when you come to God, your slate is wiped clean.:) You are a brand new creature!
:banana:

[lamama]

Berean (That's a big name and a worthwhile goal to live up to!) wrote:

I'm still interested in her, but honestly, her behavior left me a bit depressed. I mean I did not grow up around the Lord and in the Truth, and she did. She and I come from different backgrounds, but I am saved, so I am clean, right?

I think so, so should it matter that I am not a virgin?

Sorry for getting so personal here but I wanted to know what you all thought about my issue.


Don't be sad! Jesus has a special place for those who feel left out!

"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." I Corinthians 6:11

Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. I Corinthians 7:27 (huh, the very next chapter)

Just keep seeking Jesus. He may have someone else, maybe even a sister who is also a virgin, for you. You did right to be open with her. And she also has the right to wait and see if the LORD has someone who is also a virgin for her.

Also, ask her if what you're thinking is true. Maybe she's concerned about health issues. You may want to see first where she is and perhaps offer to get tested if it would ease her mind.

If so, you can just keep praying that the Lord would give you a wife. Then wait patiently on Him. He may have someone very special already on hold for you.

[jdcord]

Berean,

I would have to agree that it is her right to desire to marry another virgin (as she is). Perhaps that has been a lifelong dream of hers? Who knows?

That does not mean that God has not cleansed you, though. He has created a new heart in you. However, your old body is still what it was. You weren't made a virgin again when you got the Holy Ghost (would that it were that easy, :) ).

Is it right for her to discriminate against you because you aren't a virgin? That is between her and God. But one thing is sure, God does have someone for you, and he will bring them to you when it is time. Just be patient and wait on him.

[Berean]

lamama and jdcord,

Thanks for the input. I did feel discriminated against, a little I imagine. However, I am still strong in the Faith. Jdcord makes a good point, that her discriminating against me because I'm not a virgin is between her and God. I really don't know how I feel about that, but personally I don't believe that such discrimination is right nor Godly. My opinion. I love the Lord, I have a clean heart and mind, that is really all that is important. I can love one woman, be with one woman, and only think of that one woman, my future wife. Besides, my last sexual experience was years ago and its ancient history.

As far as 'soul ties' are concerned, I don't believe that these are eternal. If they are, then I would of all men be most miserable if my mind was forever tied to fornication that I committed years ago.

I don't believe such a position is logical, let alone Scriptural. I have prayed about this and I believe God when He told me that I am clean and sex with my future wife will be 'brand new,' meaning that all other experiences will be out of my mind.

This sister has a hangup with me not being a virgin? Her loss...

I'm moving on in Jesus! :D

If this hangup is such a big deal to her, I don't want to be with her anyway because her insecurities would only hurt me in the long run.

But thanks for the input, it was very helpful.

Brother Berean

[In His Service]

Berean,

Try to understand that she has endeavored to keep her virginity for her future husband as a gift to him. She wants her husband to present the same gift to her, his virginity. That is what God ordained it to be, a virgin marrying a virgin.

I do believe that you can love one woman and be faithful to her. Even though you are a new creature in Christ, your virgin status as one never having had a sexual relation is not something that is renewed. The sin of it is wiped away thought, naturally.

Pray for God to help heal the wound that her decision caused in your heart and look ahead to when God sends you who he has for you.

We will keep you in our prayers
Bro. timothy

[Berean]

Thanks Brother Tim for the reply,

Yes God has healed that wound. I don't wish for my criticism of her stance to be mistaken for a still open wound.

I just am of the opinion that it is an unrealistic expectation for her to insist that her husband be a virgin, just as it would be an unrealistic expectation for me to expect my wife to be a virgin (even if I was still a virgin).

People grow up with different values and different circumstances. This sister has been in Church her whole entire life. These are the values that she grew up with.

I grew up among unbelievers, for the most part. I was definitely not in the Church and had no Apostolic Spiritual influence. That said, most of the church people and ministers that I grew up around weren't even trying to live holy themselves.

So I feel like she was holding my past against me, so to speak. Who knows, if I were dealt a hand as fortunate as hers was, maybe I would still be a virgin too.

So I don't think her mentality is fair to other saints. That's just my opinion, and I think it is quite logical.

The impression that I got from her is that even if everything else was perfect (ie. had everything in common, personality fits, etc.) and I am spiritual, preaching, living for God, etc., the fact that I made mistakes in my past BEFORE JESUS would be reason not to move forward with me. Honestly, that does hurt.

Nevertheless, I'm not trying to categorize all sisters in the same boat, those sisters that are virgins that is. I'm sure that there are virgin sisters out there that will not hold the fact that I've been with a few women when I was in the world against me.

In fact, I'm just as clean as they are, if we are both in Christ and under His blood.

All are free to disagree as I'm sure this sister does, but this is just my opinion. I don't demand others agree with my opinion, but I will share my opinion.

She even admitted to me as we talked about this that maybe she is wrong for having this view.

Anyway, thanks for the replies and I hope they keep on coming.

You guys and gals give good advice to a young brother like me.

Take care,

Brother Berean

[jhlent]

Originally posted by Berean

I just am of the opinion that it is an unrealistic expectation for her to insist that her husband be a virgin, just as it would be an unrealistic expectation for me to expect my wife to be a virgin (even if I was still a virgin).

It really isn’t that unrealistic - it is by her choice
Hard as it is - You should honor that
We may not like it - but it still remains her choice...


So I feel like she was holding my past against me, so to speak. Who knows, if I were dealt a hand as fortunate as hers was, maybe I would still be a virgin too.

And if You had remained a virgin - would it not be “Your Choice” to who You give it to...??

So I don't think her mentality is fair to other saints. That's just my opinion, and I think it is quite logical.

Even though it is quite logical - that still doesn’t make it right

The impression that I got from her is that even if everything else was perfect (ie. had everything in common, personality fits, etc.) and I am spiritual, preaching, living for God, etc., the fact that I made mistakes in my past BEFORE JESUS would be reason not to move forward with me. Honestly, that does hurt.

Yes you are right it does hurt. - But that is the penalty that we pay for out sinful lives that we lived

All are free to disagree as I'm sure this sister does, but this is just my opinion. I don't demand others agree with my opinion, but I will share my opinion.

That is a GREAT way to do it

She even admitted to me as we talked about this that maybe she is wrong for having this view.

Brother Berean

Brother Berean,
I also had a very rocky upbringing and know some of what You are talking about.

But when the Lord does send someone Your way - It will be just what You need.
And down the road in a few years when You have Children - and if by chance You have a Daughter - - Trust Me - - You will feel different, and the first time you hold that little child in your arms - You will have that convection...............

It is hard to understand it - Now
But by and by - and You move forward in the Lord - You will feel different
See things differently - and react to things differently.........

I have a 10 yr old Son - I look at him and - well - I do feel that for Him.
I don’t think that makes people like me a second class citizen - I just move on.....

[In His Service]

It is like the exchange of gifts when virgins marry. Something that they waited thier whole life to give to another.

I thought the point about looking at our sons and daughters when we hold them in our arms, was a good point to help us to understand why she would feel that way.

Great thoughts,
Bro. Timothy

[jhlent]

I grew up in a hard world - doing whatever I felt led to do - not caring for the consequences
A few years after coming into the Church - I was blessed with a Son.
When I first held him - my heart broke - Praying to God to help me to keep Him from my mistakes. - And in “My” opinion the careless regard for my virginity was part of it.

[foreverblessed]

Wow, this thread has moved right along since I have read it last.

I was a virgin but my ex-husband was not. He came from a rough background. It didn't bother me that he wasn't. I can understand though if someone chose to only want to marry a virgin.


Back to the situation of the husband leaving her....

As a lot of those here already know, my husband left me last year. I have actually been through this all before with him. I filed for divorce several times, remarried him once. I could never make the break, although he would leave and do his thing about every year or so, for the last 10 years. I always saw my being his salvation, if I was in his life, he would have a chance to be saved. This is one reason I couldn't make the break, I worried about him being lost forever.

Every time he left before, I felt in my heart, it wasn't over. I still had a love for him. I hung on to hope of reconciliation. I understand what your going through sister.

This time was different. I told him before he left this time, he would be making a grave mistake to go down that road again. I was different, I can't explain it, but it is over. I have realized that I can't be responsible for his soul. He has to be able to make his own way back to God.

I can see him, and like Jhlent said, I do feel a little something, (mostly pity). I used to be attracted to him, but as time goes by, he has tattooed his body up, and he is changing so much. When I see him today, he is so far removed from the man I married, the attraction is gone.

I care for his soul, and pray that God leads him back to him someday, I really do.

I have full and total custody of my kids, he doesn't have visitation rights because of a drug problem, so I don't have to worry about things that other's going through the same situation as I am might.

Personally, if your ex has already had two kids with his new girlfriend, I would move on.

I think Jhlent's advice to go slow is good. Being friends is a good way to start slowly. Becoming romantic too quickly will just get emotions mixed up and mess with the head and heart! :goof: Already been there, done that, BIG MISTAKE!

I will pray for you sister, know that there are others out there going through it. We will make it. ;)

[Berean]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

Thanks for all the feedback. I feel what you are saying. She can have her preferences, whatever. I don't hate her for it. Her loss.

Even if I were a virgin, I would not make it manditory for my wife to be a virgin. We all have sinned. It may not have been sex for you, but sin will take us all to hell if we don't repent. ALL SIN.

For me to meet a Sister in the Lord and everything was perfect, my desire to marry her would not decrease AT ALL if I found out her sexual history. That stuff is under the Blood of Jesus! It is over, done, forgotten, and as if it never happened in the eyes of the Lord.

So seeing this Sister through the eyes of the Lord and not my own eyes, she is pure and undefiled. For me to say to her, 'well, you are not a virgin so I can't marry you,' (or in so many words say that same thing) is for me to reach back under the Blood of Jesus, grab those sins, and present them back in her face.

I would never do that. My own personal convictions I feel should not be the judgment on other's pasts. I don't know what others have gone through. Everyone was not raised in Church.

Take care and I look forward to further discussion.

God is Love,

Brother Berean

[ddc101]

I think a better title for this thread would be
People who have little regard for committment need to be delivered of that spirit as its still affecting their christian walk.
Marriage is a covenant.There is blood or supposed to be blood shed upon comsumation of that covenant.For those who come to God after having really messed up you are in a real pickle aren't you? I was in that same pickle.So I know what you are going through.But when I was redeemed I was bought with a price.The precious blood of Jesus Christ.There are no other ties to my soul from that day forward.Now I may have needed to be delivered from the way of thinking that dominated my thought processes from spirits ruling me in the past.As now I have Jesus Christ as Lord and ruler.But no where in the bible do I see anyone else joined to my soul.Becoming one with someone is not in soul.The word is speaking of the marriage act.One in body....hello....not hard to figure out.......Now when someone is going out joining themselves to tom,dick and harry they are covenant breakers.
The word gives us a clear indication of what that is.I think people like to get super spiritual because they are too prideful to admit that they are weak of the flesh.They have to make everything
justifiable...oh yeah....I keep falling into sin because I am bond to so and so and so and so and so and so in my past.Where is your past? My bible says my sins are blotted out and i have become a new creation in Christ Jesus.Its time the psychology gets out of the pulpits folks............lv sis.c

[BroDane]

I have found that Jesus make ALL things NEW! (That is, Holy,Perfect in His eyes, Acceptable,Clean & Fresh)

If Jesus cleans a life up he dont leave no stains....clean means spot free!!!!!! Yehhaaaaaaa!

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Now..If we walk in the Spirit (the NEW man here) then the old man is dead....... and all effects of the dead man....

IMHU (In My Humble Understanding)

[Berean]

Hello Brother,

Thanks for your sensible post. I agree wholeheartedly. That was my point from the very beginning.

Take Care...

Washed in the Blood and PURE!

Brother Berean:D

[BroRutledge]

That which is flesh is flesh.

That which is Spirit is spirit.

The blood of Jesus makes us clean and new... no matter how many no matter what..

When we repent and get baptized in the name of Jesus and are filled with the holy Ghost all sins are gone and we are new creatures with a new beginning. There may be scars and reminders of sin still walking the streets, but we are perfect and clean in the eyes of God and those who were part of our past are history.

If we fall again we should immediatly call on the name of Jesus and be washed clean and pure again forgetting those things that are behind and never look back.

Sins of the flesh were nailed to the cross... All sins.

Even if we became one flesh with a thousand others Jesus broke all the chains and ties at calvary nailing it all to his cross.

Now we are washed, now we are cleansed, now we are justified through the blood of the lamb and by the Spirit of God.

We are made new creatures in Jesus Christ our Lord.

God bless
BroRutledge

[jdcord]

Lazarus was given new life, but was still bound by graveclothes.

I've met far too many "born again" people that are still bound by some graveclothes.

[ddc101]

What those graveclothes are is spotted garments.We have not received a spotted garment.That would go against scripture.We have been given a white robe and a new name.The problem isn't things still hanging on us but mindsets and ideas still ingrained in us from the old sinful life.That is what a stronghold is.Its in the mind of the believer.Nothing can wash us like the WORD.Its the renewing of our mind by the washing of the word we all need.It just keeps washing away the old habits.
And to those who were speaking of virginity.Marriage is a covenant and it was meant by God to be two virgins.Covenants are sealed in blood.And there is blood when both are virgins.But to those who are coming in church after being long past the ideal
situation then consumation is enough.Early Orthodox Jews went right into a marriage chamber and then when the consumation occurrs announced it to the guest present and the marriage supper would begin.That is why marriage is so closely related to Chist and the church.lv sis.c

[jdcord]

Originally posted by ddc101
[B]The problem isn't things still hanging on us but mindsets and ideas still ingrained in us from the old sinful life.That is what a stronghold is.
That's the same exact thing, sister. Your above comment essentially states that "the problem isn't that 2+2=4, but that 2+2=4." Huh? :D

The graveclothes I am discussing are not "spiritual garments", but rather strongholds from our past (in the mind and heart) that still bind us.

Just like Lazarus needed to be loosed from his graveclothes AFTER he had been "born again" (so to speak), so we too need to be loosed from some old graveclothes (in the mind and heart) that bind us.

[Berean]

Hello Jdcord,

While I am not a virgin, I don't have any graveclothes. Comparing me to your Lazarus example, I came out of the tomb with no graveclothes on at all!

When I was born again, all my chains were broken.

As I said earlier, everyone wasn't raised in Church and let alone raised in the Apostolic Truth. If you were one of those fortunate few, count yourself blessed.

I wasn't. I grew up with minimal spiritual influences, but the Lord saw fit to use me in a mighty way.

If I get rejected for marriage consideration by every virgin in the Church because of my past, their loss.

But it is due to their choices, and not due to any chains in my mind. I have none.

"...for my mind is free, like a breeze."

(Fredrick Douglass)

God is Love,

Brother Berean

[jdcord]

Originally posted by Berean
When I was born again, all my chains were broken.
Ok. First off, let me answer your question about being raised in church:
I was raised Catholic (Puerto Rican Catholic, not American Catholic). I toyed around some with a few protestant denominations, and even "accepted Jesus as my Lord and Saviour" when I was 13 years old (not that it lasted, or anything), but I didn't come to the truth until I was 26 years old.


As for your comment above, let me ask you a few questions:

If a homosexual with AIDS comes to the Lord and is "born again", while I certainly agree that they are forgiven and cleansed of their actual sins, does it necessarily follow that the result (or "fruit") of that sin (the AIDS) also automatically gets cleansed every single time that any homosexual is born again? If it doesn't, then that poses a problem to the idea that we are set free from everything that bound us when we become "born again".

In my first post I mentioned the example of a person who loses an arm or leg in a drunk driving incident before coming to the Lord. Once they are born again, do they gain their arm or leg back? No, they do not. The lost appendage is the result of their former sin, and that result (that gravecloth, if you will) is not dealt with at all when they get "born again". The results of sin are not necessarily sin in and of themselves, and therefore are not necessarily "washed" when we become born again.

One more example: a child who grows up without his father, and ends up growing up with, say, hurt and anger, because of that - does that hurt and anger get washed away when they become "born again"? I know of many people that have had to deal with graveclothes of hurt and anger towards a father that deserted them as children (or was never there in the first place), and they had to do so AFTER they became "born again". Being born again didn't take care of those issues, because those issues aren't necessarily sin (but they are a result of sin - even if it was someone else's sin).

[Berean]

Hello Brother,

The title of the thread is 'soul ties.' My commentary was within this framework.

Aids, lost appendages, etc., are not 'soul ties,' those are consequences that were reaped in the natural.

My argument has never been that these 'go away every time.' Now if God will, Aids can be GONE out of a born again person!

But it will not happen every single time.

So you confuse the issue here. I am talking about the soul. My soul is not 'tied' to any of my former lovers from my fornicating past.

Such a suggestion, to me, is absurd. Now some may be tied, but my ties/chains were broken at the Cross, at the Cross, where I first saw the light, and the burden of my heart rolled away!

Yes some are suffering from hurt and abuse, but not me. All my chains were BROKEN!

Praise my King!

God is Love,

Brother Berean

[jdcord]

Originally posted by Berean
The title of the thread is 'soul ties.' My commentary was within this framework.
Oh, ok. We had kind of moved on to discussing things that we carry with us as a whole, which is why I took your post that way.


Aids, lost appendages, etc., are not 'soul ties,' those are consequences that were reaped in the natural.
So is becoming "one flesh" with those we had sex with. It is a consequence that we reap for our actions. The actions themselves are washed away when we are born again, because they were sin. But just as Jesus used things in the natural to explain how things work in the spirit, so am I using those lost appendages and the sicknesses and so on, to show how in the spiritual we can still carry the results of some our past sins (or sins that others committed against us).

The example I used of those who grew up fatherless is perfect because those results are NOT happening in the natural - they are not a sickness or a physical injury. It is the same with becoming "one flesh" with those we slept with: that result of becoming one flesh is something God does in the spirit. It is that union God creates in the soul between a man and a woman that "take" each other. To say that such a union is washed away with the sin that created that result, is to say that God makes an exception for just that one thing: that he washes away that particular consequence or result of sin, but that he doesn't do it for things like the results in a person when they grow up fatherless, or the results in a person when they have been raped, emotionally abused, or a host of other things. So why does God make an exception for the union of "one flesh", but not for those others, by supposedly washing away that union at the new birth, but not washing away those other, clearly spiritual matters?

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to convinvce you that you have any kind of problem. If for whatever reason you do not feel (or have NEVER felt) that tie, that inexplicable bond, to those whom you slept with, then consider yourself a very blessed exception - because the majority of born again believers that I know that slept around before coming to the Lord, they most definitely have had to deal with this issue. If you didn't, then in my experience you are clearly an exception to the rule. But hey, more power to ya, as they say.

[Berean]

Hello Brother,

I guess I'm the exception then. Although there are more of me out there than you probably think.

I grew up without a relationship with my dad, so I can relate to being 'fatherless.' My dad did not desire a relationship with me, but I was like 'so be it, his loss.' Life goes on.

I for one am not bound by my past. Whatever I lacked in not having a father around, Jesus became that when I was born again.

I am a new creature, brother. Old things (past flings, 'soul' ties, whatever) are passed away, and behold, ALL THINGS are become new. If I have faith in this, then I am one of those 'blessed exceptions' as you said.

If anyone has faith in this, then they can also be one of those 'blessed exceptions.'

This whole business of 'soul ties' may be true for some who need their breakthrough, but it is not true for me nor those like me.

All my 'soul ties,' if I even had them then to those who I slept with, were broken at the Cross of Calvary.

He caused all my bones to shake, caused all my yokes to break.

So I am free.

God is Love,

Brother Berean

[ddc101]

Amen Berean
All things are made new in Jesus Christ.The blood covered it all.And my soul is tied to nothing but the blood covenant I made with Jesus Christ.Men and women become one in flesh.Its another word for the act of marriage...hello...not so high above us that we cannot easily understand...lv sis.c

[jdcord]

Ok, so let me get this striaght here,

When we become born again, everything is made new (and ya'll seem to literally believe that that means every single possible thing that anyone could ever think of: physical, spiritual, emotional, etc.).

But that would then mean that we are perfect as of that moment. And that as long as we just have sufficient faith in that, that there is virtually NOTHING left that God should ever have to deal with in our hearts, minds, souls, or any other part of our inner being!

Wow! What a deal.

[Berean]

jdcord,

When the Scripture says '...ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW,' do you believe it?

If the Scripture says 'ALL,' then what is 'left out?'

ALL means ALL

My caps here are not 'shouting,' but mere emphasis, btw...

:D

Realize that God leaves nothing out. If we allow our mind to go back and relish the past which has been blotted out, then that is our decision. God left nothing out of the equation, it is our fault if this occurs.

When people backslide it is not because God left something out of their salvation. People turn back because it was their decision.

If you have a 'soul tie' that was not broken when you were saved, then that is between you and the Lord. IF you allow it to be broken, it will be broken.

When I speak of me having NO SOUL TIES whatsoever to any previous lover that I had, I speak for myself.

Myself alone.

For I can only speak of myself.

If you don't believe it when the Scripture says 'all things are become new,' then that is between you and the Lord.

IMO, if that is the case, you need to increase your faith.

God is Love,

Brother Berean

[jdcord]

If "all" really means "all" in that verse, then why doesn't the guy with a missing appendage get a new one? After all, our physical bodies would certainly fall into the "all" category, wouldn't they? So why doesn't his body get made new?

[Berean]

jdcord,

Once again you confuse the issue. Being a new creature in Christ is not a natural transformation. It is spiritual regeneration.

Now the promise of physical resurrection from the dead is given, but this happens at the second coming. However it is a natural transformation, with the vile body being changed to be fashioned like unto his glorious body (Philippians 3:21).

At issue here is 'soul ties,' no reference whatsoever to the physical.

So these alleged soul ties issues concerning previous lovers before salvation is the very framework in which my commentary should be interpreted by you.

All things are become new should be interpreted in the framework that it appears in, namely being a new creature in Christ. That is a work of the Holy Spirit.

Hope that I have finally clarified myself.

Take care

God is Love,

Berean

[jdcord]

Berean wrote:

Being a new creature in Christ is not a natural transformation. It is spiritual regeneration.
So then "all" doesn't actually mean "all", in the literal sense (otherwise it would include ....... well ...... "all").

I agree with you about that. By necessity, there are qualifiers to what "all" is referring to in that verse.

The difference is in what we feel those qualifiers are. You believe that it includes things like the unity of one flesh between a man and a woman, and emotional issues of the heart, and such. But my experience, and that of a great many others, tells me differently. And since the Bible doesn't actually specify what the qualifiers are, then you and I are free to disagree on the subject.

[Berean]

jdcord,

Okay, here we go again. Check out your quote...

"The difference is in what we feel those qualifiers are. You believe that it includes things like the unity of one flesh between a man and a woman, and emotional issues of the heart, and such. "

Jdcord, the verse is talking about spiritual regeneration when it teaches 'all things.' Clearly unity of one flesh between a man and a woman, in the context it would be 'fornication,' emotional issues of the heart, etc., are ALL abstract matters and can be dealt with and are dealt with by spiritual regeneration.

We are not talking diseases or missing limbs here.

Those are carnal.

So again you are confusing the issue. These 'soul ties' that you referred to don't include STD's or missing limbs, do they? Of course not, that is why I am addressing these alleged soul ties and trying to tell you that they have not survived through my personal encounter at the Cross.

You say 'impossible,' or you call me a 'blessed exception,' well so be it.

With God nothing is impossible, behold, all things are possible.

My mind is clear and my conscience undefiled.

Yes I have had sex before I was saved but I did so in ignorance and unbelief. Once I was born again, all those chains were broken and they no longer remain.

In God's eyes I am seen as if none of that even happened, because it is covered under the Blood of Jesus.

Now I only wish that some of our Sisters who have grown up in knowledge and kept themselves would see me through God's eyes instead of their own.

I admonish them to catch God's vision :D

We are entitled to our preferences and yes even to agree to disagree.

God bless you,

God is Love,

Brother Berean

[jdcord]

Originally posted by Berean
Jdcord, the verse is talking about spiritual regeneration when it teaches 'all things.' Clearly unity of one flesh between a man and a woman, in the context it would be 'fornication,' emotional issues of the heart, etc., are ALL abstract matters and can be dealt with and are dealt with by spiritual regeneration.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that is just your personal opinion (unless you can show me some chapter and verse that states exactly that). I disagree. That was my whole point. Your opinion of what "all" includes in that verse is different from my opinion. And again, since Paul doesn't specify exactly what he meant by "all", you and I (and everyone else, for that matter) are left to our opinions of what "all" refers to in that verse. I also disagree with you in what aspects of humanity are included in "spiritual regeneration". It is a matter of personal opinion.

I derive my opinion from here:

Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe that this clearly let's us know what is entailed in "spiritual regeneration": our spirit, period. Our soul (the mind, will, and emotions/heart) and body are separate and apart from our spirit.


So again you are confusing the issue. These 'soul ties' that you referred to don't include STD's or missing limbs, do they?
Again, Jesus many times used the natural to explain how things work in the spiritual. Is that somehow verboten for us to do as well? Because that is all I have done by those examples.


You say 'impossible,' or you call me a 'blessed exception,' well so be it.
My personal opinion? You can scoff or get angry with me, but her it goes. Let me start by quoting one of your posts: "I grew up without a relationship with my dad, so I can relate to being 'fatherless.' My dad did not desire a relationship with me, but I was like 'so be it, his loss.' Life goes on."

From what I see portrayed in those words, my personal opinion is that you blocked off that area of your heart long ago, and that when you received the Holy Ghost, your belief that God must have surely dealt with that area too caused you to continue to leave that area blocked off; the result being that you have convinced yourself that that area has been dealt with already, when it has only been continually walled off by you for so long (which explains why you mostly feel nothing; as long as nobody digs too much, that is). That is the impression that your words left me with, and, true or not, it will be hard impression to break.


But enough of that. This belief that "all" inner issues are washed away when we get born again makes no sense whatsoever, IMO (either biblically or logically). Not that I don't see where a verse or two can be taken and claimed to teach that. But again, that belief would make it so that we become perfect at that point (new birth), and would mean that God would have absolutely ZERO issues of the heart, mind, or spirit to EVER deal with after our new birth.

Do you really believe that? Do you actually believe that there are no inner issues whatsoever in a man that God ever has to deal with after we are born again?? And if you don't believe that, then how do you reconcile those exceptions (that God does have to deal with later) to your belief that "all" inner issues are spiritually regenerated at the new birth? If "all" such inner issues are dealt with at the new birth, then no one anywhere, should EVER have to deal with such issues again. Yet it happens every day. I know people, even pastors, that after having served the Lord for DECADES, have found in prayer God reaching into the depths of their heart to heal an issue from their past that they had forgotten about long ago (because they had blocked it off, which is a natural human response to severe emotional trauma or pain).

How do you reconcile such people to your belief that "all" those issues were washed away at the new birth? Do you take on the attitude of Job's friends and say, "well, they just don't have real faith"?? Personally, if I believed as you do on this issue, I don't see any other way of reconciling those people to that belief: it would be the only "out" that could explain them while still maintaining that belief. But perhaps you can enlighten me of another way of reconciling such people and their experiences to that belief? And BTW, I recognize the irony that you could easily say the same thing about my opinion concerning your father (that it is the only "out" I have to continue with my beliefs). However, I did not form that opinion until I saw those words that you posted. I did consider that opinion as a possibility with you, but it wasn't until I saw the words that you posted that the nails were driven in (so to speak), and I said "Aha. There it is in black and white". I could still be wrong, but again, that impression will be hard to get past.


The reason that I continue to look past your efforts to turn this back to only the issue of unity of one flesh (since starting this thread, I have stopped calling it "soul ties", in preference of using the more biblical term), is that your stated beliefs apply to any and every issue of the inner man. And that is why my responses to you have been, and will continue to be, about any and every issue of the inner man, and not just the unity of one flesh.


I for one am not bound by my past. Whatever I lacked in not having a father around, Jesus became that when I was born again.
It's is much easier, IMO, to believe that those things are washed away at the new birth, then to actually allow God to reach deep down in our heart and minister to those wounded areas. Because that involves letting down the walls we've built to protect ourselves, and opening ourselves up to that pain again - something no one likes to do, just ask any doctor (don't touch my "boo boo", or I'll have to hurt ya. *L*).


With God nothing is impossible, behold, all things are possible.
I agree.


In God's eyes I am seen as if none of that even happened, because it is covered under the Blood of Jesus.
I agree that the sin is washed away and under the blood, and that God doesn't see those sins anymore. But the unity of one flesh is not sin. Where does the Bible say that the blood of Jesus washes away anything but our sin and the eternal death that would have come from that sin?


Now I only wish that some of our Sisters who have grown up in knowledge and kept themselves would see me through God's eyes instead of their own.
I agree with you there as well. I don't think it is right for them to hold your past against you.


* I am going to break this post up. It is much too long otherwise.

[jdcord]

And in closing (*LOL*),

Paul talks about having a ministry of "reconciliation". How interesting that he chose that word, and not the word "restoration". To reconcile means to bring into harmony. To make consistent or congruous. While to restore means to bring back to or put back into a former or original state. To "renew".

Restoration is what God does at the new birth. Reconciliation, however, is what takes place from thereafter until the day we meet Him. That is why Paul said that his was a ministry of "reconciliation", instead of saying "restoration".

Example: an old building downtown has been now surrounded by much more modern buildings. The building is restored (renewed) to it's original state. Great. But is it "reconciled" to it's surroundings? Is it in harmony with those surroundings? Is it "consistent" with those surroundings? Unfortunately not.

Another example (this one from a movie, but it still makes a great example): In Tarzan of Greystoke, the jungle-raised man is brought back to his true home in Europe, where he is also restored to his former position and heirship. However, even after being restored (renewed), he still has many issues from his past to deal with - he still isn't "reconciled" to that restored position (because that reconciliation requires a process of much time, as opposed to his restoration, which only took moments). He only knew how to eat with his hands. He didn't like all the clothes he had to wear. He needed to learn to speak. Etc., etc.

And no matter how much God has restored us to our former position (as his children, and his bride), we still must go thru a lifelong process of being "reconciled" to that position (and all that it entails). But why must we be "reconciled"? Because we are still a product of our past, even AFTER we have been born again. We still have many of the same mindsets and ways of thinking (filters, if you will), and they must be changed so as to reconcile us to our restored position. And the same goes for our heart (emotions/feelings, motives, etc.), it must be reconciled as well after we have been born again. The inner healing issues that I have been discussing (up to and including the unity of one flesh), is a ministry of reconciliation. But as with all things, some people will need a whole lot more of it than others - it all depends on our backgrounds.

God bless you Berean. I hope I haven't offended you in any way.

Much love in Christ,
JD

[Berean]

Hello jdcord,

Although I find your post interesting, I disagree to the extent of a universal application of your implications.

Your reasoning is not universal to everyone. It certainly doesn't apply to me anyway, so that in and of itself would make your reasoning not universal.

My issues with not having a father were resolved at the Cross. It was there that I let all my 'walls' down and when the Holy Spirit came in and filled me, that was God ministering to that issue.

Part of my hang up with religion before I was saved was trusting. I had a hard enough time trusting other people, much less trusting something that I could not see and had never interacted with (God).

This I believe was a direct result of my fatherlessness.

However, God dealt with that. When I let all my walls down and completely desired to give myself to him at the waters of seperation after my repentance, after the minister brought me out of the water in Jesus Name, God filled me with the Holy Spirit and I was speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gave utterance.

This was God dealing with all those wounds, and by His stripes I was healed.

So I am free and clean, 0 soul ties!

Thank you Jesus!

Now that is my perspective. You may say 'not possible,' but as I said earlier, with God all things are possible.

Take care and of course I am not offended.

Love is not easily offended.

God is Love,

Brother Berean

[ddc101]

jdcord,
In the spirit realm the guy with the missing appendage does have a new one.All things have become new.And furthermore
when dealing with soul ties we are dealing with the spirit realm not the natural realm.
If we would be dealing with the natural realm then the person would not be considered having soul ties.lv sis.c