PDA

View Full Version : A husband who's hard to submit to


ddc101
06-09-2003, 10:33 PM
A HUSBAND WHO'S HARD TO SUBMIT TO
Should a wife always submit to her husband?
Should a husband make all the decisions?
by Wendell E. Miller

Q. In the years that I have been married I have accepted the biblical teaching that a woman should submit to her husband. However, I have not submitted fully or always with a good attitude; and the idea of submission still bothers me. Why should my husband be the one to make all of the decisions, and why should he have his own way in everything?

A. Biblical roles in marriage seem to be poorly understood even among Christians who are well taught in the Bible, and this includes husbands not understanding their role.

In a column like this, it is not possible to deal with any subject extensively, nor to deal with every aspect in applying the biblical principles. However, I believe that the following discussion will be helpful.

Considering the husband's role first, the Scriptures teach that husbands are to love their wives (Eph. 5:25). In order to understand this passage fully, it is necessary to know the meaning of the Greek word agape, which is translated "love."

Agape love is, in the broadest sense, a dedication to someone or to something; and this dedication can be good and holy, or it can be sinful. For instance, agape love is used twice in a sinful sense in 1 John 2:15.

If we consider agape love in the good sense, perhaps the best definition of agape love is: "an act of the will (not feelings) to purpose and to do that which is best for the one loved, without the necessity of emotional motivation."

If we paraphrase Ephesians 5:25 by inserting this meaning of agape love, we arrive at something like this: "Husbands, purpose and do those things that are best for your wives, whether you like them or not, without regard to the way they treat you, following the example of Christ as He loved the Church and gave His life for it."

To wives, God says, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" (Eph. 5:22).

So, in God's plan, the husband is to dedicate himself to his wife and do good for her; and, by submitting to him, she is to allow her husband to do good for her.

How are these biblical roles in marriage applied to the area of decision making? The Scriptures teach that the husband is the head of the wife (Eph. 5:23), and that the wife is to be subject to her husband in all things (Eph. 5:24); so the husband is responsible, before God, for all decisions that affect his wife.

In day-to-day application of biblical roles, l suspect that most husbands allow their wives to make decisions, and that most husbands allow their wives to make some decisions that they think are less than the best.

For instance, a good Christian husband will allow his wife to make decisions with regard to running the household. He will trust her to decide wisely overall; and he will not overrule individual decisions of which brand of laundry soap or peanut butter to buy, just because he thinks that she is not buying the best brand. Instead, he will eat, without complaint the brand of peanut butter that she buys.

Other husbands, some of whom are Christians, in shirking their responsibilities, allow, and sometimes even force, their wives to make decisions for which their wives are not qualified.

A good manager develops the talent of his employees by giving them responsibility, by allowing them to make decisions, and by refraining from overruling them except when necessary. He "goes along" with many decisions that he believes are poor.

The Scriptures teach that agape love is not proud ("not puffed up"--1 Cor. 13:5), and that agape love is not selfish ("seeketh not her own"--1 Cor. 13:4).

If a husband is not proud or selfish, but wise, he will utilize his wife's talents by delegating some decision making to her in accordance with the amount of responsibility that is best for her.

Of course, if he loves her with agape love, he will not dump responsibilities on her out of laziness or irresponsibility, and he will not abdicate his responsibilities.

If a decision of his wife is not morally wrong, if it will not harm her spiritually, morally, emotionally, or physically, or harm someone else, or break their budget, then a Christian husband may allow his wife to make decisions that he deems to be wrong.

On the other hand, if he overrules her too frequently or criticizes her decisions, she may lose her self-confidence, feel as if she is being treated like a child, lose heart, become bitter, or rebel against his authority. In contrast the husband in Proverbs 31:10-31 must have utilized and developed his wife's talents wisely; so that he had no fear of her judgment when "she considereth a field, and buyeth it" (Prov. 31:16).

When a Christian husband makes decisions, if he is neither proud nor selfish, then, in accordance with what he deems to be best for her, he will honor his wife's judgment seek to make decisions that are best for her, seek to fulfill her desires, and allow her to make some decisions.

And if a Christian wife is not proud, and if she is not selfish, then she will not insist that she is right nor try to get her way. Instead, she will want decisions to be made that are good for him and his growth as a Christian man, and that are in accordance with his wishes. And she should cheerfully accept his decisions and stand by him when his decisions prove to be wrong.

On some subjects, and on many occasions, the wife will have more knowledge or better wisdom than the husband. Only pride will make a husband think that he knows the most about everything every time; and only selfishness will cause him to demand his own way in everything.

If the husband is wise, he will solicit his wife's opinions, listen carefully, and value her opinions. If he does, and neither one is proud nor selfish, quite often they will arrive at decisions that are not consciously the idea of one any more than the idea of the other.

If a Christian husband loves his wife with agape love, and she loves her husband with agape love, then neither will act out of pride or selfishness. Instead, each will prefer that things be done according to the good of, and the wishes of, the other person.

What a contrast in marriage between mutual agape love and "I know best" and "I want everything my way!" What a contrast to compromise! In compromise neither gets everything that he wants to get, both give more than either wants to give, and neither is happy.

Submission is not inequality. Jesus submitted to the Father, and He is equal with the Father (John 10:30). Also, the teaching of scripture is clear that there is no distinction between male or female before God (Gal. 3:28).

Submission is not silence; but, when a Christian woman submits to her husband, it includes treating him and talking to him with the honor of the position that God has given him (Eph. 5:33).

What is submission? For all believers. not just wives. submission is obedience to God and a way of life (Rom. 13:7; Eph. 5:21; 6:1; 6:5).

Submission for wives is obeying God (Eph. 5122-24): it is loving God (John 14:15); it is trusting God's purpose in her life (1 Pet. 1:7), even when the situation is difficult; and it is trusting Him to work all things together for her good, even when things seem bad (Rom. 8:28,29).

Submission for wives is working in partnership with God for her husband's eternal good regardless of his present spiritual condition (1 Pet. 3:1), it is demonstrating a Christlike character to her husband, and it is bringing glory to God (Matt. 5:16).

Paraphrased, God says, "Husbands, be devoted to your wives, provide the right atmosphere for them to grow in Christian womanhood, and shelter them from those things that would harm them or be too strenuous for them."

And paraphrased, God says, "Wives, let your husbands do goodfor you; and trust Me that l will work all things together for your good (Rom. 8:28,29), even when your husband does not love you as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it."

Biblical roles? Obey God and trust Him for the results. If both of you follow biblical principles, the marriage will be good, both of you will be modelling godliness for your children, and both of you will bring glory to God.

If only one of you lives his/her biblical role, that one will grow in godliness, that one will be a model for your children and others, that one will bring glory to God, and that one will be rewarded by God (2 Cor. 5:10).

But how much better it is when two are one in their desire to please God and to obey Him in living their biblical roles.

Copyright 1986 by Wendell E. Miller
Downloaded from http://www.biblical-counsel.org

May be reprinted and distributed in quantities if distributed free or at cost, and if
copyright, download, and permission information is included.

ddc101
01-20-2004, 06:53 AM
ahem...............i need to read this again and get bandaids for my tongue or is that duct tape for my mouth? :ninja:

NanaRenan
03-19-2004, 09:07 AM
I'm so glad I found this today. It greatly concerns some things I've been feeling in the Lord and things that have come up in Bible study this week.

Oh, I need to tend to this aspect of my walk. I thought I was doing good, but I can see there's SO much room for improvement!!!

Thanks for posting this way back when!

NanaRenan
03-19-2004, 09:08 AM
.....definitely need extra-heavy-duty duct tape for me!

LilOrphanAnnie
03-19-2004, 09:34 AM
ahem...............i need to read this again and get bandaids for my tongue or is that duct tape for my mouth? :ninja:
Note: this stunt is dangerous, don't ever do it, and this picture is copyrighted (sorry)- I thought it was too funny in light of what you said though!!

NanaRenan
03-19-2004, 02:02 PM
I mentioned that this issue had come up in Bible Study, etc.

Today a friend tells me that her husband has asked for a divorce! I've been married so long and had so few problems, I'm not sure I'm qualified to advise her, but I do need some things to say.

First off -- she is NOT filled with the Holy Ghost, nor does she attend an Apostolic/Pentecostal church. But, both her and her husband are very active in the church they do belong to and wish to remain so although he has stepped down from his bible study leadership position.

She is confident that infidelity is not an issue. She has MS and she believes he is afraid of her deteriorating...also, he has "rage issues" and blames her and the children for his anger. I started of with pointing out that if he followed the scriptures "husbands love your wives..." maybe she wouldn't "provoke" him. (She really DOESN'T, that's just his excuse.)

ddc101
03-24-2004, 11:29 PM
Sister Pam there is your chance to pray with her for restoration of both her physical self and the marriage.lv sis.c

InJesusName
03-25-2004, 08:43 AM
I mentioned that this issue had come up in Bible Study, etc.

Today a friend tells me that her husband has asked for a divorce! I've been married so long and had so few problems, I'm not sure I'm qualified to advise her, but I do need some things to say.

First off -- she is NOT filled with the Holy Ghost, nor does she attend an Apostolic/Pentecostal church. But, both her and her husband are very active in the church they do belong to and wish to remain so although he has stepped down from his bible study leadership position.

She is confident that infidelity is not an issue. She has MS and she believes he is afraid of her deteriorating...also, he has "rage issues" and blames her and the children for his anger. I started of with pointing out that if he followed the scriptures "husbands love your wives..." maybe she wouldn't "provoke" him. (She really DOESN'T, that's just his excuse.)
Sorry I know I am not a woman, but I have been in a divorced home, my parents. Suggest to them to get some counseling, and remember, there are two sides to every story. True his maybe the worse side, but there are still two sides! Pray for them... it takes two to get married, it takes two for a divorce. By the way that still counts in some types of abuse. That is why my parents got divorced... just keep praying, and I'll pray too... divorce is a nasty, nasty thing...

ddc101
06-22-2004, 06:27 PM
Here it is sister.lv sis.c

Esther
06-24-2004, 11:08 AM
subˇmit ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sb-mt)
v. subˇmitˇted, subˇmitˇting, subˇmits
v. tr.
To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another.
To subject to a condition or process.
To commit (something) to the consideration or judgment of another. See Synonyms at propose.
To offer as a proposition or contention: I submit that the terms are entirely unreasonable.

I do not see where this is saying the man is suppose to make all the decisions. But if there is a difference of opinions then the man has the say.

But how do you see this if the man is not in the church, and not lead by the spirit?

Look at the wisdom of God. He made Eve from the rib of Adam. The rib comes from his side, not his head; for the woman was not to be over him...not his foot; for the woman was not to be beneath him...but his side; she is to be his helpmate. Side by side if you will.

ddc101
06-24-2004, 12:35 PM
But how do you see this if the man is not in the church, and not lead by the spirit?


Sister the above question is one that someone with an unsaved husband and wife has to bear.But we have to obey the Holy Ghost regardless.
When the Holy Ghost fell at Jerusalem there were those who were bond servants but the word said this:

Eph 6:5-9
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
(KJV)

We still have to obey the word even if circumstance is against us.That is our trial to bear.I went through that before.Its not easy.lv sis.c

Esther
06-24-2004, 01:50 PM
But how do you see this if the man is not in the church, and not lead by the spirit?


Sister the above question is one that someone with an unsaved husband and wife has to bear.But we have to obey the Holy Ghost regardless.
When the Holy Ghost fell at Jerusalem there were those who were bond servants but the word said this:

Eph 6:5-9
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
(KJV)

We still have to obey the word even if circumstance is against us.That is our trial to bear.I went through that before.Its not easy.lv sis.c

I am blessed that my husband is a very good man. I just wish he would get involved in the church, again.

ddc101
06-24-2004, 02:20 PM
Fasting,praying and living for God with all your heart will be the key to that return Sister.lv sis.c

NanaRenan
06-24-2004, 03:35 PM
I am blessed that my husband is a very good man. I just wish he would get involved in the church, again.Sister, I don't know your circumstances, but I know my only complaint with my husband is that he isn't as authoratative in leading our family in our walk with God as I wish he would be. In studying this a few weeks back, I came to the realization that I had always been sort of in the way of his doing just that.

My father was gone a lot when I was growing up so my mother was the spiritual head of the family....I just grew up expecting that to be my role. I never realized in 25 years of marriage that I was so aggressive in keeping a spiritual tone on things that I had taken this duty right out of my husband's hands.

Someone posted another study on "Submission" here that I got a lot out of...I'm gonna see if I can find it.

Here it is:
http://goodnewscafe.net/showthread.php?t=1581

ddc101
06-24-2004, 06:10 PM
Sister Nana,
What helped you to come to that realization? I have seen my husband rise up in ways that amaze me.In taking on more responsibility in the kingdom he has become a whole new person.lv sis.c

NanaRenan
06-24-2004, 10:04 PM
Sister Nana,
What helped you to come to that realization? I have seen my husband rise up in ways that amaze me.In taking on more responsibility in the kingdom he has become a whole new person.lv sis.c
I just realized a lot of things at once. Although my parents had a troubled marriage, my mother didn't leave (I sort of always thought she should have.) Being a child of the 60s and 70s and subjected to far too much "Women's Liberation" drivel, I admired her for holding things together when he was gone. I never recognized that she was being "submissive" when he was around.

She's been dead 3.5 years and him since last fall and I JUST realized this!

And when I measured myself I found where I had always tho't I was doing a good job on the "submissive" part -- I realized it wasn't complete. There are too many things I was contrary over -- for no reason. Things I submitted to, but not willingly.

I give a lot of lip service to how much easier it is to serve God when you let yourself REALLY and TRULY fall in love with Him. Well -- wasn't I really and truly IN LOVE with my husband? Why did I argue over insignificant things -- JUST BECAUSE I COULD??

Somehow I think I needed to hold on to a certain amount of assertiveness just to prove I wasn't a possession or a slave.....isn't that like holding back part of yourself from serving God...?

Okay -- I'll hush, I'm rambling....

ddc101
06-24-2004, 10:29 PM
Sister I do not think you are rambling.Maybe what you are saying will help someone else.lv sis.c

SisRobin
07-16-2004, 11:30 PM
He will Sis... Just keep praying for him. My husband left the church before I joined, then came back about a month after I got the HG then left again. I know Jesus is going to bring him back. It's just a matter of time!

Lord Bless You!!

Sis Robin C.

hna_diana
07-20-2004, 05:22 PM
Greetings to all in the name of our wonderful Lord, Jesus!

For those of you who have seen my posts in some of the other threads, you are probably aware that I am very sensitive to the issues of choice and control.

I really didn't want to reveal so much of my personal story, but this issue compels me. Domestic violence is active and deadly in the church. Unfortunately, it is often augmented by controlling, dictatorial pastors who teach the men in the church that they are ordained by God to make every decision in their home. I had to really bit my tongue the other day when I heard a minister tell a story about a door-to-door salesman. I can't remember the exact point of the story, but he was checking to find a man who was truly the head of his household. He would check them by offering them whatever he was selling, and then seeing if he could get the husband to consider the wife's opinion on the purchase. One by one he rejected the men, considering them dominated by the wife. The first one wouldn't even dialogue with the salesman, and had immediately called his wife to the door. The second one talked to the salesman, but asked his wife which item she preferred. The third one made a decision on a purchase, but was rejected when he asked his wife which color she preferred. The fourth one finally proved that he was the GODLY head of household by proclaiming, "It doesn't matter what my wife thinks! IIIIIIII make the decisions in this household." The church laughed and applauded at this punch line . .. meanwhile I was looking for the door and holding myself back from organizing a protest!

I was married to a man who claimed to be a preacher, called of God. He was respected and used by the pastor and the local assemblies. This man was a complete and total abuser in every area: sexual, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial . .. If I've left out any categories, I'm sure that he fit those, too.

He would claim that God had revealed to him in dreams things that I was supposedly doing with people that I had never met and didn't know of, and begin to carry out the 'biblically correct' chastening that I 'deserved.' He would tell absolute bold-faced lies to family and ministry to avoid admitting his abuses. He cursed me with more venom than any sinner that I have ever encountered, and was more vindictive and dangerous than any enemy that I have ever had.

If I have anything to be thankful for, it is that I had the opportunity to become part of a domestic violence support group. There is a book that was authored by Nicole Brown Simpson's father and minister along with two other authors. What they have to say is so true: for the most part, Biblically based churches contribute to continuing the abuse.

Our pastor, at the time, told me that he "didn't believe in domestic violence." I asked him once why he believed all the lies my husband told him, and wouldn't believe the truth that I told. His response was, "Because you're so emotional about what you say and he's so calm. I just can't believe you." Well, isn't that great. Here I'm telling the pastor, "I never know what to expect. One minute he's smiling and happy, the next minute he jumps on top of me and bites me, leaving toothmarks on my arm that lasted for 3 days. When I ask him why he did it, he says, 'Did what? I didn't do anything. I didn't bite you.' He has cursed me, threatened me, locked me out, and held me captive. He has emptied my bank account and terrorized the children. He is delusional and violent."

My husband says, "Pastor, I don't know what her problem is, poor thing. I don't know why she says all these awful things about me. I love her so much. I just want her to be happy." So we drive away from the counselling session, and horns grow out of his temples, a pointy little beard appears on his chin, and as we turn the corner he begins screaming and cursing me, threatening and flailing.

. . . and the pastor doesn't believe me because my husband is calm, and I am emotional.

When the wicked man left me for the third time, the pastor promoted him to Sunday school superintendent, and stood him in front of the church as an example of an exemplery Christian. I have witnesses.

Needless to say, this kind of man, and this kind of church leadership causes a woman to lose faith in men and 'ministers'.

Before I had gone through this situation, I would have said, "Fast and pray and wait for God to work it out." But since I have had this experience, and fasted and prayed and believed until I was scaring my mother by my anorexic appearance and my completely dominated demeanor, I have changed my attitude and opinions. My advice now is, "RUN."

Any woman who is with a crazy wacko abuser like the one I was with, and in a church who condones or promotes such behavior is in a hopeless situation. The man has violated the wedding vow. He is none of what he promised he would be, or what God wants him to be. He has become an enemy of God, and an instrument of the devil for the destruction of an obedient and submissive servant of the most high God.

The women who find themselves in these circumstances are not the rebellious ones. These women are MORE submissive than average women. Their continued giving and submission causes their abusers to assume even more power and control over them.

If the husband is a stalker, the woman needs to grab the kids and go to a battered woman's shelter, and if necessary, get a new home and a new identity. Please read "Dead by Sunset." These men are possessed by a spirit of darkness. They are very manipulative and charming . . . and often deadly.

Men who are immature, unintelligent, or inexperienced are not necessarily abusive. And abusers are not necessary lacking in maturity, intelligence, or experience. Not every many who makes a mistake or an error in judgement is an abuser. But abusers are abusers to the core, and they can be quite difficult to reform.

One last comment, and sorry to be so lengthy. . .

I know of a situation in the church I am currently attending. The husband was very abusive. Finally the wife called the pastor and said, "Pastor, my husband is beating me. I need help."

He said, "Okay. I'll take care of it right away."

Within 10 minutes the police were at her door, and her husband was arrested. He went to jail. Thank God that the pastor took a stand against a violent man! This incident happened some years ago. The man got out of jail. The couple is still married, and their home is relatively peaceful. The husband could not control himself, so his fear of the law has become his control. If that's what it takes, so be it.

The husband who is impossible to submit to is a person who REFUSES to be pleased, no matter how completely, willingly, and joyfully the wife conforms to his wishes. The minute she conforms, he changes the rules so he can feel like the victim of her rebellion, and he can justify his malice. Her good attitude and patience with him only causes him to justify his bad behavior claiming, "Apparently, she likes it." Talking with these men, and trying to reason with them is the same as trying to reason with terrorists. It is futile.

God bless you all! Thank God I am free!

Hna D

Abigail4476
07-20-2004, 05:40 PM
Submission is a Biblical mandate. However, it is subjective. God created woman, and it is not His plan that anyone should abuse His creation in any manner. Any man who abuses his wife or child[ren]--it would be better that a millstone were tied around his neck, and he were cast into the sea, because God is going to hold such a man accountable for every injury inflicted. Men are supposed to be examples of Christ in their home--I often hear the issue of women submitting discussed, but rarely do we hear ministers speak on the equivalent scriptures that discuss male responsibilities.

Men who abuse their wives and children will not escape the wrath of God. The Torah has some interesting things to say on this matter; men are to provide for their families--but according to the Torah, that isn't only a matter of finances. They are supposed to meet physical needs, emotional needs and spiritual needs. Any neglect in any area, or any abuse in any area is a serious infraction of the Laws of God.

As a wife, I do know what I am commanded to do and be. Submission is not easy for me; it is more than just saying "Yes, sir." (Well, it really isn't that at all--at least for me--if I said "Yes, sir" very often, my husband would probably faint.) Rather, submission is an attitude of deference, an attitude that puts my husband first, and attitude that serves him. And many other things. What is lost in translation, however, is that in order for submission to be properly implemented, IT MUST BE VOLUNTARY. Otherwise it is subservience, it is an abuse of authority, and it is damaging to the woman. Any man who tries to force his wife to submit has lost sight of the true point; we are to do so as an act of love. Love cannot be forced, it must be chosen.

On the flip side, a man who is truly like Christ will be a servant to his family. Men who think that leading their family constitutes shouting out orders and being quickly and unquestionably obeyed are ignorant at best, and unchristlike at worst. What did Jesus do for the men he led? He served them, he washed their feet--he insisted that they put aside their pride and allow Him to be a servant. Husbands are supposed to be like Christ.

Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church. No greater love than this, that a Man lay down His life for a friend. For God so loved the world...

The love of Christ is a love that acts, gives, serves, exhorts--well, I really can't say this as well as Paul did, so just see I Corinthians 13.

I've really digressed--I can't even remember the original point of my post...LOL...I'm going to go clean out my mother's refrigerator now! :banana:

ddc101
07-20-2004, 10:50 PM
Sister Hna Diana
I am sorry for what you suffered.I have to ask why you did not report him to the authorities? I would have.That was not the pastors job but the job of the law.He was definately able to be picked up on a battering charge.Sad that no one listened to you.Sorry but when abuse happens and marks are present its time for legal matters to begin.There are classes for domestic violence.I am in no way against that.What a shame no one listened to you.We are a bible based church that believes in biblical submission but not domination.Sorry but thats sinful.I am a minister and so is my husband.Don't lose all confidence because there are still some of us out here who love the Lord and love the saints.And sorry but I would have to hold myself back from bodily harming someone who harms my sister.lv sis.c

hna_diana
07-21-2004, 03:32 PM
My dear sister, you asked me:

I am sorry for what you suffered.I have to ask why you did not report him to the authorities?

By pastoral mandate, I was forbidden to take any legal action to protect myself. The ministerial advice reasoned that if I put my trust in the legal system, that I would be removing myself from the protection of my God-given authorities, namely my husband and the pastor. Additionally, I did not want to 'take matters into my own hands,' and was determined to let God display His miracle-working power.

One of the ministers had the nerve to tell me, in voicing his support for my estranged husband, "No man should have to be afraid that his wife is going to send him to jail." What is most surprising about this statement is that this minister knew that there was violence in the home, he had already been called out to our house several times! Also, my husband was the only one who was talking about me sending him to jail. I don't believe in making threats, and more than anything, I didn't want to do anything to further damage the marriage.

In our area, the 'ministers', for the most part, believe that the woman is required to submit to the husband, (it is even God's will if he kills her, I was told by my ex-husband's pastor's wife). Their reasoning is that the wife made her choice to marry the man, so she is bound to endure whatever he dishes out. What a sad and twisted point of view, and what a perversion of God's perfect plan! There can't be many women who choose to enter marriage with the knowledge abuse is in their future. Abusers are oh-so charming, and extremely manipulative. They are expert liars and deceivers, convincing themselves of their own reality. The depth of their perversion and violence is often known only by the victims, and the abuser appears to be normal, or even 'extremely nice' to friends and acquaintances. These men are often some of the most (apparently) enthusiastic fanatics for the Lord. From my new outlook, when I see someone who is 'wild' for Jesus, I know that I am probably looking at an abuser/controller.

I am thankful for sane and Godly men and women, like those I have encountered on this site. The damaging effect of evil and power-hungry men devastates families.

Thank you for your kind words.

Hna D.

ddc101
07-21-2004, 05:33 PM
Sister Hna D.
Was that in America? Because it sure sounds like Muslim thinking to me.Ministers are bound to report abuse to authorities.Sorry but I don't mind authority.I like calling the police to remove the drug dealers off our corner.I like laws being in place for our protection.Oh we don't need it to be a police state but that is ridiculous thinking.You could have been killed.And no its not Gods will to let the husband kill the wife and her just sit there.Forget that.
Thank God that you are on a better path.I have not heard such absurd thinking in my entire life and I hear some stuff...believe me sister I hear some stuff.Some of which I have to report to the authorities in order to keep me from going to prison.lv sis.c