Birth Control

[ddc101]

I have heard more and more controversial stuff about birth control products lately.In fact one recent newspaper article said they put the today sponge back on the market.Dumb me..I didn't even know it wasn't being sold in the past few years.I have been to churches that teach pro and against birth control methods.
It took nursing school for me to clearly understand that some of the methods are acutally abortion.Yet you know as well as I do that most of us are not informed about all this when we are given prescriptions or advice from physicians.Who knew Norplant would cause so much trouble? I had considered having that done when I was younger.Now it does not matter but I understand Norplant acutally caused cancer at the insertion site.How about some feed back on this? sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

I don't believe in birth control, Sis. Dana.

[ddc101]

Hi sis.Mireland,
I have heard both sides of the argument.But refresh me and share why you do not believe in birth control? sis.c

[Apostolic Kitty]

I don't believe in birth control because I trust that God knows what is best. He is the soveirgn life giver. Who am I to stop him?

Not that I want to. I would love more children, but I figure, hubby and I have been married almost four years, don't use contraceptives, and have a healthy relationship in the bedroom I have not gotten pregnant yet because it's simply not time.

It's kinda crazy when I think about it because the first time my son's biological dad and I ever did anything without guarding against pregnancy at all I conceived. I did not deserve such a blessing as I was a fornicator. God used that child (now 11 years old) to bring me to Him. He's so good!

[survivor4christ]

I feel the same way, Sisters. God does provide and knows what is best. My convictions are pretty much based upon bad experiences I have had with birth control in the past.

Love, Sis. Wenona

[Truthseeker]

Sister Cooper

What birth controls would be considered abortion? My wife got her tubes burnt, but has since repented and may get it reversed in the future.

Also how does the rythem method work? I know some about it.

[ddc101]

Bro.Rob,
Aren't you a male nurse? Maybe I am thinking of someone else.
But anyway IUD's and such are the same as abortion.In fact I have heard some controversies lately about birth control pills working in the same way.Barrier types are probably your best bet.I have understood the sponge is back on the market.
The rhythm method works with your basal body temp.There is a basal body thermometer available on the market.As far as exactly what days are positive and which are negative in the prevention area that would have to do with each individual personally.
Education is the key to success for this method.I think apostolics need more education in this area altogether.Your wife should do a web search on tubal ligation syndrome and see what comes up.It may surprise you.It sure surprised me.lv sis.c

[Goodshepherd]

I remember at the old cafe I asked this question and guess what? This topic is never short of hearing some interesting imformation. I don't believe in birth control........ very interesting topic!!

[Truthseeker]

Sister Cooper

yes I'm a nurse, but I'm not altogether with knowldege of birthcontrol. I mean I know the basics and so on, but since I don't use them I'm not up to date on all of them.

More and more I don't believe BC is pleasing to God.

[ddc101]

Bro.Rob,
It is interesting though how the medical society views family life isn't it? Its like the voice of it is stating....Children....have them where and when you want them..chose the sex of your child..
decide if you want to allow it to live at this time etc.So anti family.
Planned Parenthood has been preached so long from the pulpits of the dregs that many people are deluded by it.It always seems to target the poor and underprivilaged.In fact I remember when a friend went into our local University Medical Center and they were offering every woman there sterility.Let me mention that this is the charity hospital. My friend went there because they were in college and did not have insurance.She was shocked because this was their first child.While I am not into society picking up the ticket for people having children out of wedlock etc I think Planned Parenthood goes way too far in its govermental rights.
lv sis.c

[ddc101]

Here it is:
Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc. (PPFA), a reproductive health care organization dedicated to the principle that every individual has a fundamental right to choose whether or not to have a child.
PPFA has more than 150 affiliates and operates nearly 1000 clinics throughout the United States. It has headquarters in New York City. The more than 20,000 volunteers and staff that work at the organization's centers provide medical and educational services to nearly 5 million people each year. These services include counseling on fertility and pregnancy; screening for cancer and sexually transmitted diseases (STDs); treatment for STDs; testing and counseling on the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), which causes acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS); sexuality education; parent/child communication programs; and services related to contraception, prenatal care, abortion, and adoption.
PPFA's independent political arm, the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, engages in lobbying and electoral activity to help expand and preserve reproductive health and rights for all Americans. In the mid-1990's PPFA established a political action committee to make financial contributions to political campaigns.
PPFA also is involved in international family planning programs. The organization provides support for family planning projects in developing countries through Family Planning International Assistance, a program Planned Parenthood established in 1971. In 1994 PPFA established Global Vision, a program that disseminates information about global population issues. PPFA is a founding member of the International Planned Parenthood Federation. This organization, established in 1952, consists of family-planning associations from more than 140 countries.
During the 1990s PPFA has been troubled by internal disagreements over the organization's direction. After Pamela Maraldo became the PPFA president in 1993, she moved to change the emphasis of PPFA from reproductive care to general family medicine. Her efforts caused widespread concern among PPFA affiliates and the board of directors, and in 1995 Maraldo resigned. In 1996 Gloria A. Feldt, a longtime PPFA regional administrator, became president of PPFA. Feldt planned to refocus the PPFA on advocacy of a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.
PPFA traces its origins to the efforts of Margaret Sanger, an American nurse who worked to give all women access to information on contraception and reproduction. In 1916 Sanger, along with two other women, opened the first birth control clinic in the nation in Brooklyn, New York. Sanger founded the American Birth Control League in 1921, an organization that worked to legalize birth control, and in 1923 she established the Birth Control Clinical Research Bureau to provide services related to contraception and to collect data to use in lobbying efforts. In 1939 these two organizations merged to become the Birth Control Federation of America, renamed the Planned Parenthood Federation of America in 1942.
Reviewed by: Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc.



"Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc.," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 99. © 1993-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Apostolic Kitty]

Bro. Rob:

An excellent book you might want to get for you and your wife is Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler. I heard raves about it from women who were trying to get pregnant so I bought it myself. Worth every penny! The same practices in the book (done in reverse) can be used to avoid pregnancy.

Here's the site for the book: http://www.tcoyf.com/

The paperback is usually about $20, but are the 1995 and 2001 edition for less:

http://half.ebay.com/search/search.jsp?nthTime=1&product=books&keyword=taking+charge+of+your+fertility

[Joan]

I read the autobiagraphy of Margaret Sanger. She was a real pip. I got so suspicious about her relationship with this one particular female "friend" she spoke of. Margaret didn't admit in her autobiography that she was homosexual, however, I have read about her in other sources that say she was. My opinion: she was anti-life. The statistics of women who are at risk of death during childbirth is almost inivisible. What's the point of abortion then? I have never heard anything about Planned Parenthood ever counseling anyone into choosing adoption.

[foreverblessed]

I believe it is between God and the married couple.

I believed in birth control, and I was on it when my first child was conceived. I was fertile mertil, at least that is what everyone called me, I married in 1989, had my girls in 1990,91,92. Shortly after the birth of my youngest, I ended up with infection in my ovaries that couldn't be explained medically, and have never used birth control since, and have never been able to conceive.

I am convinced that God knew what was best for me, and took care of the fertility problem. I would have 12 kids by now, if he hadn't! :) Just joking, after the last c-sect, the surgeon begged me to burn my tubes, and I just couldn't do it, told him I was too young, I just wasn't comfortable with the idea.

[Thelordisone]

I dont believe in birth control either but since my wife does not agree with me we use it.

Now, should we continue to have children if we cannot PROPERLY care for them. Dont get me wrong I will be the first one to tell you the Lord will provide.

But dont you think he gave us authority over our own members?

Bro Rob,

What prompted your wife and why? Also, then did you get fixed? If you dont mind me asking. My wife and I have been thinking about doing this. But I think we are too young. I will soon be 29 and she is 28.

IN HIS NAME!!

[Truthseeker]

Thelordisone

May I suggest you get a book called "witout moral limits" Pray and fast about it, please!

Our story:

When we first got married we used BC for a few years. I was considering getting fixed, but felt uneasy about it in my heart. I couldn't bring myself to do it. I began to feel conviction about BC. My wife on the other hand didn't want no more kids, so she thought. She got her tubes burnt against my wishes ,which of course would be out of the will of God, but she couldn't see it. She thought I was being unreasonnable, but then God showed up. She said she felt something terrible when the MD showed her the pictures of the burnt tubes and I didn't feel to hot either, she said she tried to put that feeling aside. God began to convict her on it in prayer. It was heavy on her heart about what she had done. Every time she try to pray it was put in front of her like a wall. She felt she had to repent for it about everytime she prayed. God showed her she had sinned and she repented to God and to me. Through this ordeal God has taught her something about submission. I'm glad I didn't ride her about it, it was all God. Of course, I did a little "I told you so" :)


So I'm now convinced BC is not pleasing to God. We say he's Lord of our lives, but what we mean sometimes is he is Lord of certain parts of our lives.

Children aren't like cars, pets, and so on...

"Well, I'll have a goldfish, dog, cat and two kids"

This is the mind set of the world. We always her about worldiness, but it's more then clothes, it's a mind set, which includes the worlds mindset about family.

It's like other things in God, it boils down to faith, do we have faith?


We get up a preach "Give your tithes and God will open the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing you can't receive" But then turn right around and say "I can't have but two or three kids, How I'm going to take care them?"

Like God is up there struggling trying to find a way to take of the saints with a large family.

It's about faith!

What it boils down too alot of times is materialism. The world knows a large family might mean no SUV, large fancy house and so on. It would mean the parents fleshly desires would have to be put on the shelf.

Us saved folks may not admit it but we have alot more worldliness we need to overcome.

So to reverse the tubes being burnt will cost about 5,000 which we hope to do in early 2004. Then we plan on putting the rest in Gods hands.

[Truthseeker]

Thelordisone

Get your wife the book called "Me Obey Him"

[Truthseeker]

Any sisters ever had a Tubal reversal done? If so, how did it go? Where your tubes burnt like my wifes or clamped?

[foreverblessed]

I don't know of anyone, but I have heard that it still is a big possiblity that you might not be able to conceive afterward.

It also involves surgery again. I guess I fail to see the need to reverse it, unless you just really want more children.

If you feel it wasn't right to do, God forgives.

[Truthseeker]

Sis Forever

My wife wants it done. I think she feels it would be an attempt to correct the wrong
kinda like taking something back you stole.

[ddc101]

I have heard that if you have your tubes tied that they untie in a few years.I don't know about having them burned.But I do know tubal ligation has a syndrome associated with it.lv sis.c

[drummerboy_dave]

Forgive me for butting in, Bro. Rob.

In the unlikely event, that it would even possible, to reverse the procedure your wife encountered with any amount of success; the second surgery would be very expensive and assuredly, would not be covered by insurance.

If you both want to have [more] children, why don't you adopt? The benefits from this option, far exceed the first one.




The reason I joined this conversation, is because I have a vasectomy scheduled for next month.

I am with Forever on this one. It is between the marriage and God.

[tufluv]

TheLordIsOne:
Bro. Rob has that book already, we had discussed in another thread way back, and I have it too!! Yup, its good, not that I needed it!!! I am very willing to submit to my husband, he just doesn't demand much, and he also fails to serve GOD, doesn't go to church, etc., although he DID finally go this last Sunday for Pastor's Day, so did my best friend/sis's husband, we had VICTORY that day!!! :angel:
As for tubal ligations, I had one after my last son, and at that time, I was in a backslidden from the trini's condition. I really have not regretted it, that was 18 yrs. ago, and then 5 yrs ago had to have a hysterectomy, so that's that. They never really told me if they burnt them or tied them and I didn't ask.
And as for BC, I never used much of anything, really, and used the rhythm which worked for me, not everyone though, it was like you had to abstain from the "I" word a week before and a week after the monthly dread! So thats how I did it., and God provided me pregnancy (except for the first time) at just the right time I wanted! (and he obviously thought I needed it right then! to settle me down, etc.) he was right, it worked!

I did gradually have lots of problems later, after the tubal, that may or may not have had anything to do with that procedure, (or it may have been about that pad/tampon article way back in archives!). I never thought about it much, just led up to having that hyst. and its great not having that monthly problem anymore!! Hehe!!! :D :D
I had lost so much blood, that I had to have a blood infusion! Went to the emergency room one day, and was kept there for 3 days, got 3 pints of blood! (lucky I didn't die! God again in his mercy, preserving my life! for future plans!) and it was recommended I have that hysterectomy, although I put it off for a year.
My only regret was in not having any kids with my current husband of 10 years. He's never had any. But he says he's content with that (gotta love him!), and so I let him bring home all types animals, he just brought home a precious puppy! He recently adopted a "snake" from the back yard, we have lots of fish, one really ornery "Oscar", and of course, two spoiled cats, and two other dogs as well. There's plenty to love!
And I let him have his toys such as the boat, the FORD classic truck, etc.etc., what else can I do? He's such a nice person, I always think of trying to please him in little ways.
Oops, off topic again!! GOD BLESS! :bow:

[Sandy]

My oldest grandaughter now has 7 children, all born pretty close together. They did not believe in birth control either, even though she began to have a lot of medical problems as a result of having all of these children. They must have changed their mind, because after having the last one, her husband had a vestctomy, choosing to do it I understand mainly because it is easier for the male to have this done, rather than the female, plus much cheaper too. I believe he did so because of Wendys health. During one pregnancy she was bedridden after the first 5 months.

I don't really know what is right or wrong regarding this. And therefore would never try to tell someone what they should do. either. Although I have to admit that I do believe my Grandson inlaw did the right thing for them and their situation none the less. And maybe should have even done so much sooner than he did. But then they would not have the set of twins they have either. Nor the last little girl as well. And thank goodness my grandaughter is like one of those army sergeants when it comes to discipline and order too, having ran a day care with sometimes 16 children for a few years before having the twins and the last little girl too. Like Mother like daughter, as my daughter also had 7 too. that must be their magic number.

I personally have never used birth control pills either. But then they did not have such a thing until I was a little older either. But even when they did come out with them, I didn't. Mainly because I did not need to it seems though. As I never had anymore after the first two anyway. So I don't know what I would do to be honest. I can only guess on this. And my guess would be if I had a lot of children, I would probably do something about trying to prevent it as well.

[Goodshepherd]

Sis. Cooper, isn't having your tube tie or burnt a form of birth control?

[Apostolic Kitty]

Originally posted by Sandy
I personally have never used birth control pills either. But then they did not have such a thing until I was a little older either.

You dated yourself there. :D I wents on birth control pills when I was 15 and my mom discovered I was sexually active.

[Truthseeker]

Drummerboy

My wife wants it reversed. Like I posted before, my wife realizes the sin of getting a TL for her. I guess by getting the surgery she feels like she can undo the damage, kinda like taking back something stolen after repenting. Pkus she has had heavy post TL symptoms.

[Sandy]

Well AK, my Mom didn't find any pills, but she did find out about my oldest daughter suddenly, :D after I got pregnant. Then got married, and unfortunately divorced later. But then found myself a winner, and have been with him for 33 years now. During his younger years, he honestly looked like Elvis Presley. So much so that this lady came up to him in this church we visited a few years after beginnining with the Lord, going on about how much he looked like Elvis. I was a watchin her too. Cuz this one was mine. :D

But you're right, I did date myself. Don't tell anyone, but I don't look my age, or is it act my age. :D Oh well, it is one of them two, or maybe both? :D

[ddc101]

Goodshepherd,
Yes it is.I unfortunately had a tubal pregnancy so I had three children with only one tube.There is a syndrome associated with this.lv sis.c

[Thelordisone]

Bro Rob & All,

Thks for the info.

God Bless!!

[BurningforJesus]

Greetings in the precious name of Jesus.
Have any of you read the Magazine that comes out a few times a year called "Above Rubies"? Though it is trinity beleivers I gleam alot out of and come away from reading it encouraged and determined once again. It is a magizine for encouraging mothers world wide to be what God wants us to be.
This subject is definitely something that only the Lord can convict you on. Then it is up to each individual to do what needs to be done.
I was convicted quite a few years ago about BC so found out about the rythym method and it worked for me except once!! I now have aprecious little bundle of joy in a three year old girl. What would I have done without her. The Lord certainly hears our hearts cry and answers our desires. I am very thankful I made a mistake and God gave a blessing to me.
Every child is a blessing from the Lord.
I heard some one say that 'our mistakes are God's blessings'. We might make a mistake and say yes to sex before marriage, and become pregnant but the mistake was ours, and God blesses. I have to go but will come back later tonight. Keeping in mind this is 1.20pm over in Canberra, Australia!!! I have so many things to add to the great threads that are going at the moment I don't know which one to go to first.
Catch you later.
Burning.

[Oldpreach]

Greetings and peace to everyone who loves our Lord Jesus in sincerity.

May the LORD'S best blessings be on every saint who is seeking truth regarding childbearing. Thank you, Sister Cooper for starting this thread.

Bro. Rob, if, you and your wife do feel led to have a reversal operation, there is a website: http://home.swbell.net/birons/blessed.htm
These people raise money to help others, like your wife, who have underwent either tubal ligation or vasectomy and now want to reverse it.

Another place is www.quiverfull.com
I am amazed at how many people circulating around the quiverfull digest have successfully had tubal ligation and vasectomy reversed. There are several references available, references to doctors who have success with reversals.

You also asked about the rhythm method.

May I share with you my personal experience?

The LORD led me to the practice of "Natural Mothering"

The book "Breastfeeding and Natural Childspacing" by Sheila Kippley changed our lives. I applied what Mrs. Kippley teaches. (exclusive breastfeeding) So far, the LORD has blessed us with four children, each an average of two years apart which has been an ideal space.

Here's a link that may be a good starting place.

http://www.ccli.org/breastfeed/index.shtml

There is a booklet entitled, "Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?" published by a man named Randy Alcorn that seeks to prove how that the birth control pill does indeed at times, abort after conception.

The philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said that public receptiveness to newly discovered truth often goes through three stages: At first the truth is ridiculed, then it is violently opposed, and finally it is accepted as self-evident.

I hope this helps,
oldpreach's devoted wife
:bow:

[ddc101]

I have heard that it has been proven that bc pills do indeed
abort after conception.Also there is a tubal ligation syndrome.
M.D.'s offer this stuff like candy and we are all so gullible.
I work in the medical profession and I can tell you that this
is not taught.The thing that really surprised me it what happens
to a person using an IUD.That is abortion pure and simple
The contraceptive sponge is back on the market for those who
are interested in barrier contraceptives.lv sis.c

[lamama]

Thank you again, Sister Cooper for initiating this discussion.

There is a website for "Above Rubies" magazine: www.aboverubies.org

The following is taken from their homepage:

"Above Rubies is a magazine to encourage women in their high calling as wives, mothers, and homemakers. Its purpose is to uphold and strengthen family life and to raise the standard of God's truth in the nation. The name has been chosen from Proverbs 31.10 AMP, " A capable, intelligent and virtuous woman, who is he who can find her? She is far more precious than jewels and her value is far Above Rubies or pearls."

[ddc101]

Sister Lamama,
I checked out the site and subscribed to the magazine.What a neat site for women.I could not believe the non dairy recipes.
Did that sound like me or what????sis.c

[Goodshepherd]

Thanks Sis. Cooper for answering my question....

[ddc101]

I have heard more and more controversial stuff about birth control products lately.In fact one recent newspaper article said they put the today sponge back on the market.Dumb me..I didn't even know it wasn't being sold in the past few years.I have been to churches that teach pro and against birth control methods.
It took nursing school for me to clearly understand that some of the methods are acutally abortion.Yet you know as well as I do that most of us are not informed about all this when we are given prescriptions or advice from physicians.Who knew Norplant would cause so much trouble? I had considered having that done when I was younger.Now it does not matter but I understand Norplant acutally caused cancer at the insertion site.How about some feed back on this? sis.c


Hey Lamama you were right.It has been so long since I posted this I forgot about it.There must be a little rock floating around between my ears.lv sis.c

[lamama]

Wow! I am really glad I took some time to look at all the pages of previous discussions on this ladies board. What a blessing it has been to hear about all your history with birth control. It comes at a very good time...

Sket's Wife,

I'm so glad you found this thread helpful. You must read, "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" by Sheila Kippley. Which can be purchased at Amazon.com by clicking here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0926412205/qid=1076575031//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-6924708-1401415?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Natural Mothering is *not* to be confused with Natural Family Planning. Natural Mothering is simply letting nature take it's course via the LORD'S wonderful design. When a woman exclusively breast-feeds, she will most likely experience an average of 14.5 months lactational amenorrhea. In other words, if you *exclusively* nurse your baby, meaning NO bottles and NO pacifiers, but always suckle and nurse to satisfy your infant, you will most likely experience natural infertility and a delayed return of menses, thereby spacing your children an average of two years apart.

This has worked for our family, exactly the way Sheila Kippley describes in her book, "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing." Although Sheila Kippley is Catholic, any Christian mother can benefit from her expertise on the subject of Natural Mothering as well as the good mothering skills and advice she shares.

ddc, thank you for sharing your discovery...I *thought* you were the first lady here at the Café to start a Birth Control thread. :)

Sincerely I pray

[ReneeP]

Now this is a touchy subject~
The *fors* and *againsts* of birth control.
Let me first say this...I TOTALLY respect each and everyone of your views but I must admit I am for BC. I dont see anything wrong with it. I am a total believer in the fact that God will and does take care of his people BUT I also believe he expects you to use your mind for thinking also. I know without a doubt when me and my husband married we were not ready for children so we did use BC. I have also seen people who were against the thought osusing any type of preotection and they are now on their 8th child, can barely make ends meet and living on state welfare. Now is this how God wants his people to live? I dont think God is so closed minded to the fact that we must take resposniblities for our actions.
Now....how do you feel about people who have to take THE PILL NOT for preventing pregnacy BUT for medical purposes?

[NanaRenan]

I am so impressed!

Because I married two weeks shy of 17, my mother was adamant that I get on the pill well in advance. She didn't want me having a baby 8 or 9 months later and people "wondering"....and you KNOW they would've! LOL

About 4 months after I married, I did conceive and miscarry. I was terrified that the pills had caused it and refused to take them any longer. I was not living for God at the time, but felt very convicted about "playing God" in this matter.

We did try all the other OTC options, but nothing was both comfortable and convenient, so we just decided to let "whatever happens happens." My babies were born in 1980, 1983, 1986 and 1989. The only thing influencing that was breastfeeding with baby-led weaning (at 21, 24, 24 and 18 months respectively). WOW!! -- That's over seven years of lactating!!!!:huh:

Anyhow -- I got LOTS of flack from family and friends about my no-BC stance....although I readily declared it PERSONAL and didn't judge others based on MY convictions! My mother-in-law was my most outspoken opponent. I love her dearly, she's a prayer warrior and a God-fearing woman, but she was only trying to think of her son, who worked 2 jobs for over 9 years so that I could stay home to raise our children.

At one point we had a conversation that turned absurdly funny -- after I stated that I didn't "believe" in BC, that I didn't think GOD wanted us to use it...she practically shrieked..."What do you MEAN you don't think God wants people using BC...do you think he wants teenagers getting pregnant in the backseats of cars?"

I was dumbstruck, seeing how much a woman of her age and faith could buy into this societal attitude!! I said, "Will you LISTEN to yourself? God doesn't want teenagers FORNICATING in the backseats of cars IN THE FIRST PLACE, I think whether or not they've using "protection" is NOT an issue with Him!"

She hushed.

Finally someone recommended a book to me....The Way Home by Mary Pride. She used scriptures to point out that men like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, etc. did not "pop out a baby every year" the way everyone told me I would.

Then she said something I'll never forget....the scriptures say that "children are a blessing"....that's not just OUR opinion, God tells us He blesses us this way. Ms. Pride said that "children are the only blessing of God we refuse more of." She said you never hear anyone say, 'Lord, thank you for my job and material blessings, but if I get fired, that'll be okay." Or 'Thank you for the good health I've had, but I'll take the flu or cancer over that."

But how many times do you hear Christians say, "Thank God for the two I've got, but I don't want any more!"

That really stuck with me. I decided if I could take my sick babies to the elders to be annointed and healed....if we could lay our checkbook on the altar and ask got to help us control our finances....SURELY, I could give the One who created me control of my reproductive organs.

How did my story end? While my husband didn't object to me not using BC, after the fourth, he did decide to have a vasectomy, as I had vowed to never do a TL. When she was 9 days old he did this procedure, he knew I didn't agree, but I didn't try to stop him, because it was his body and, I had a deep peace that our family WAS intact and the desire to bear more was truly satisfied.

Ironically, it was in vain, because when she was 18 months old, I had to have an emergency hysterectomy to save my life. I kinda thought God was showing us that in fact, he WAS in control all of the time.

Pam<---rambling again.:o

[AnointedByHim]

The Lord gave me the revelation about birth control and He gave me this verse of scripture:

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

He showed me that women who say they trust the Lord in all things and then they use birth control, is showing that they doubt God and don't have faith in God to give them the blessings that He wants them to have. So, they are actually sinning, because whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Since God is the giver of children and they are a blessing from Him, then shouldn't women and even men repent of their sins because they don't have faith enough to trust God in His giving blessings of children and how many He wants couples to have? Think on these things.

[ddc101]

He showed me that women who say they trust the Lord in all things and then they use birth control, is showing that they doubt God and don't have faith in God to give them the blessings that He wants them to have. So, they are actually sinning, because whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sister the above is a very judgemental statement and I doubt God said that to you.Many women have no idea what some forms of birthcontrol actually are and also we learn and get knowledge from Jesus as we serve him.
I would never say that people don't have faith because they don't do what I do or act like I act.I simply pray for them..lv sis.c

[AnointedByHim]

Sister the above is a very judgemental statement and I doubt God said that to you.Many women have no idea what some forms of birthcontrol actually are and also we learn and get knowledge from Jesus as we serve him.
I would never say that people don't have faith because they don't do what I do or act like I act.I simply pray for them..lv sis.c

I'm not a sister and that is what the Lord gave me today, so it is not a judgmental statement and you don't have to believe it or not. I know that the Lord gave me this and I think that you are the one that is being judgmental. Seek God about this. I don't sugar coat things because someone wants to hear a feel good message. I believe in being real and if you don't, then that is your choice. Think on these things.

[ddc101]

Well then think again about posting these kinds of things in the ladies sections because here we don't call our sisters sinners.And if you aren't a lady then why are you posting telling ladies these things.And furthermore you did not get that kind of fruit from the Holy Ghost...he is peaceable.These ladies have pastors for that kind of stuff.Enough said.lv sis.c

[AnointedByHim]

Well then think again about posting these kinds of things in the ladies sections because here we don't call our sisters sinners.And if you aren't a lady then why are you posting telling ladies these things.And furthermore you did not get that kind of fruit from the Holy Ghost...he is peaceable.These ladies have pastors for that kind of stuff.Enough said.lv sis.c

I posted the revelation that God gave me for those who are for BC. BTW, the Word calls it sin, not me. Seek God about it.

[Apostolic Kitty]

And if you aren't a lady then why are you posting telling ladies these things.
Is there a new rule that one cannot post in the ladies section unless they are a lady? If so, then many brothers are breaking the rules.

Truthfully, I tend to agree with Anointed's stand on this subject. I just am not as blunt about it.

...And thank God someone finally knows how to spell anointed properly around here. LOL :)

[ReneeP]

Well, I for one DO NOT agree with anointed ...the bible DOES NOT call it sin

I believe in BC and for years took BC...that DOES NOT make me a sinner!
I KNOW my walk with God..I KNOW where he brought me from and where he is taking me!
To pass judgement on people like this is what is sin! Can you tell me the day you shed your blood for me? If by all means you did this, then I will gladly sit at your feet but until then, ask God to give you a tender and conpassionate heart and to learn to judge not lest ye be judged.

[AnointedByHim]

Well, I for one DO NOT agree with anointed ...the bible DOES NOT call it sin

I believe in BC and for years took BC...that DOES NOT make me a sinner!
I KNOW my walk with God..I KNOW where he brought me from and where he is taking me!
To pass judgement on people like this is what is sin! Can you tell me the day you shed your blood for me? If by all means you did this, then I will gladly sit at your feet but until then, ask God to give you a tender and conpassionate heart and to learn to judge not lest ye be judged.

ReneeP,

The Biblical principle that birth control is a sin is there. You will have to argue with the Lord about it, because it still doesn't change the facts. I didn't shed my blood for no one.

BTW, why are you using emotional appeal to try make using birth control right? Why are you judging me? I have given what the Lord has shown me yesterday and if you don't believe it, then that is on you, but I do believe it. The Lord has shown others in here that birth control is a sin and they have repented of it. Now, if birth control is so right, why would the Lord show others that it was a sin?

[John Atkinson]

This is the first place I have ever seen this discussed without anger or judgement!
I am so impressed!
AND IT IS GOING TO STAY THAT WAY. ISN'T IT PEOPLE?

[ddc101]

Is there a new rule that one cannot post in the ladies section unless they are a lady? If so, then many brothers are breaking the rules.

Truthfully, I tend to agree with Anointed's stand on this subject. I just am not as blunt about it.

...And thank God someone finally knows how to spell anointed properly around here. LOL :)

Sister you are not as blunt because your posts are more balanced.And besides you are female.Do you suppose that women are going to listen to a man not their husband and not their pastor nor invited to preach at your church telling them not to use birthcontrol? I doubt it.But here it causes strife.And that is the thing I am against.If God gave this person a word then they should use that word in the capacity I believe God gave them to use it.
At home if they are the husband and at church in teaching if that is what they are called to do.Surely not on the good news cafe telling ladies they are sinners.I have not seen you post such things in the last year.In fact you have alot of fun in most of your posts.Big Difference.lv sis.c

[AnointedByHim]

Do you suppose that women are going to listen to a man not their husband and not their pastor nor invited to preach at your church telling them not to use birthcontrol? I doubt it.[QUOTE]

Sister Cooper,

I didn't say anything about a woman listening to what I posted, but I gave what the Lord gave to me. You were the one that has been judging me and have been saying things against me because I gave what the Lord told me.

[QUOTE]But here it causes strife.And that is the thing I am against.If God gave this person a word then they should use that word in the capacity I believe God gave them to use it.

I gave it and what the Lord showed me. If you want to falsely accuse me that it wasn't of God, then you should prove it.

At home if they are the husband and at church in teaching if that is what they are called to do.Surely not on the good news cafe telling ladies they are sinners.I have not seen you post such things in the last year.Big Difference.lv sis.c

The Word says that, not me. The truth does hurt. The Biblical principles about birth control is that it is sin. The Word of God shows this and here it is again:

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

The Biblical principles applied about birth control is here and it is women who use birth control use it because they don't believe that God knows how many children that they are to have, so that is not of faith and according to Romans 14:23, "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Does the Word change because someone doesn't like what it says? No, it sure doesn't. So, if you want to keep judging me because I gave what the Lord show me, then that is your choice, but why don't you admit that you are judging me and that you are judging what the Word says? Why don't you argue about it with God? Think of these things.

[ddc101]

I gave it and what the Lord showed me. If you want to falsely accuse me that it wasn't of God, then you should prove it.



The Word says that, not me. The truth does hurt. The Biblical principles about birth control is that it is sin. The Word of God shows this and here it is again:

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

The Biblical principles applied about birth control is here and it is women who use birth control use it because they don't believe that God knows how many children that they are to have, so that is not of faith and according to Romans 14:23, "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Does the Word change because someone doesn't like what it says? No, it sure doesn't. So, if you want to keep judging me because I gave what the Lord show me, then that is your choice, but why don't you admit that you are judging me and that you are judging what the Word says? Why don't you argue about it with God? Think of these things.


Sir I am not the one out of sorts but you are and now you are claiming the oh poor me I am being judged syndrome.Drop this please I ask for the second time.lv sis.cc

[AnointedByHim]

Sir I am not the one out of sorts but you are and now you are claiming the oh poor me I am being judged syndrome.Drop this please I ask for the second time.lv sis.cc

You are the one out of sorts, so you shouldn't judge anyone.

[ddc101]

You are the one out of sorts, so you shouldn't judge anyone.
Yes but I am the Ladies Moderator and you are not and I have repeatedly ask you to refrain from the bad spirit.Stop it.lv sis.c

[AnointedByHim]

Yes but I am the Ladies Moderator and you are not and I have repeatedly ask you to refrain from the bad spirit.Stop it.lv sis.c

You are the one that needs to refrain from the bad spirit, and it is you who has been judging me since I posted what the Lord gave me. You have been falsely assuming things about me and you shouldn't do that. So, just because you are the Ladies Moderator, does that give you the right to judge someone and falsely accused someone?

[ddc101]

Sir you are taking this to the extreme and entirely wrong in what you are saying.I am sorry that you feel the call to evanglize with the doctrine of birth
control in an area where you have no authority to do so.Ladies on this particular thread have discussed what they feel is bible and knowledge about this subject in a very orderly and loving manner and not been offended.But you have come on and in a few posts been extremely ugly.That is not acceptable.lv sis.c

[searching]

This is a good reason why men shouldn't be allowed to view or post in the Ladies section. The men come in and the women shut up.

Me...

[striving2bgodly]

Okay, I'm gonna jump in here, altho' I will probably regret it. I believe that the Bible warns us to "Beware of ignorant and unlearned questions that gender strife'...this thread has turned into exactly THAT. WHen I was newly married, there was NO way we could afford a baby- we went on BC. But, God had other plans. I got pregnant. *Smile* I had THREE beautiful daughters that same way- always on the pill. Never missed a one. But, God had HIS way in our lives. We tried to be good stewards and NOT bring innocent children into this world that we could not take care of...God saw down the road, tho. In my mid twenties I developed a lot of problems and had to have a complete hysterectomy. Had God not intervened I may not have had ANY children- thank God He is all knowing. I believe this- God can OVER-RIDE any BC pill...LOL

[AnointedByHim]

Sir you are taking this to the extreme and entirely wrong in what you are saying.I am sorry that you feel the call to evanglize with the doctrine of birth
control in an area where you have no authority to do so.Ladies on this particular thread have discussed what they feel is bible and knowledge about this subject in a very orderly and loving manner and not been offended.But you have come on and in a few posts been extremely ugly.That is not acceptable.lv sis.c

I gave what the Lord showed me about birth control and you attacked me, not the other way around.

BTW, people will get offended on many things when the truth is given. Jesus even offended many people, including His disciples.

I am sorry, but you are wrong and in error because I have not said anything ugly. Where is the post that I said anything ugly? Until you have evidence of this, you shouldn't say it and that makes you in great error. Seek God about this.

[NanaRenan]

AND IT IS GOING TO STAY THAT WAY. ISN'T IT PEOPLE?

Oh my! I might've spoken too soon! :eek:

I re-read the gentleman's post and really didn't see anything offensive in it. But, that's just me and, although I didn't have the scriptures to back it up, I agree with him....for myself.

This sort of brings me to a new question -- one that might ought to go to the General Discussion board.

Is it always "being judgemental" if we testify as to personal convictions or revelations in the Word that we might have?

Now, if my preacher gets up and preaches that purple is the color of sin and anyone who deigns to wear this wicked color is doomed to burn in Hell and "I" am sitting front and center in a bright aubergine dress...THAT is judgemental.

But if a sister on this board says, "Y'know, I was praying and just suddenly felt as though the Spirit showed me that purple entices me to entertain the spirit of vanity and for the sake of my eternal soul, I'm going to refrain from wearing it." Is that being judgemental? I don't see it as so.

I know discussions of hair length, trimming or not trimming, birth control, etc. are booming right now....take out the above references to color and insert the hot topics of the moment. Seems like the same thing to me.

If anyone is praying, fasting, studying the Word, witnessing, attending church and giving to the Lord's work regularly...and they feel comfortable and correct in using Birth Control. That's fine. They may never have convictions otherwise, but some of us were never comfortable with it -- even NOT living for God -- and some came to the realization they weren't over time. God leads willing men into the knowledge He wants them have at the time He needs them to have it.

[LadyRev]

...whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So...that means that anyone that goes to ANY KIND of doctor, accepts medical care, takes medicine, wears glasses, uses crutches, carries health insurance, carries life insurance, carries home owners insurance, carries automobile insurance, etc., etc., etc., on and on the list could go...

All such people are SINNERS because none of the above listed things show "faith" in God for healing, provision, or protection.
(Tongue firmly in my cheek)

:huh:

Think on these things.

[AnointedByHim]

...whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So...that means that anyone that goes to ANY KIND of doctor, accepts medical care, takes medicine, wears glasses, uses crutches, carries health insurance, carries life insurance, carries home owners insurance, carries automobile insurance, etc., etc., etc., on and on the list could go...

All such people are SINNERS because none of the above listed things show "faith" in God for healing, provision, or protection.
(Tongue firmly in my cheek)

:huh:

Think on these things.

LadyRev,

These are Red Herrings. The subject is about birth control and not these other things. Think on these things.

[John Atkinson]

Anointed: A moderater backed by the adminstrators of this forum asked you to drop something in an area that is specifically set aside for ladies conversasions.

Now, you have a choice, you can drop it, which will basically make everyone happy. Or, you can keep on and then I will have to take time from my very busy schedule at present to deal with this.

Which will it be?

[John Atkinson]

Men In General:

This area is set aside for our precious ladies to discuss what is relevant to them without the interference from men. We are free to read and occasionally comment, however, it is not a puilpit for the male members of the GNC to preach to our ladies.

Sis Cooper is the ladies moderator. If she asks a man to drop something and goe elswhere, the man's spot is to smile and do it.

She is not usurping authority when she does that. The word usurp means:



To seize and hold in possession by force or without right; as, to usurp a throne; to usurp the prerogatives of the crown; to usurp power. To usurp the right of a patron, is to oust or dispossess him.


She has be GIVEN Authority to run the ladies forum BY the Administration of the GNC.

[John Atkinson]

Is it always "being judgemental" if we testify as to personal convictions or revelations in the Word that we might have? No, not necessarily. It all depends on how you present your conviction. As long as it is in the "This is my conviction" frame it is OK.

It becomes "judgemental" when it turns to "you must have it as well or you are a sinner"

Now there are some things that are solid scriptural stuff, like there is no room for interpretation. i.e. to say "I have a conviction against commiting adultery" is beyond ludicrous. But other things are open to interpretation i.e. Birth Control.

The other thing is the GNC is really quite a loose community. The Apostolic organizations are founded on common beliefs and convictions that it's member churches/preachers have in common.

The GNC is not a part of any organization, we are a loose online discussion board for people who have the common ground of Acts 2:38.

That is it. We do not try and preach to or dictate our own stands on this forum very much. We use the rest of Apostolic Network for that. The GNC was never meant to be representative of only our own viewpoints.

That is why we are against fighting and people being mean to each other.

[ReneeP]

Anointed...accorrding to YOUR revelation, if a woman chooses to use birht control, she has no faith and is a sinner....My brother if that be the case I hope you also preach that YOU do not take any type of asprin, ANY type of medicine, I hope you do not go to the hospital for any reason nor see a doctor for any ailment because IF you do then you have a double standard and what you preach is not truth. If faith is what you are questioning, then you must question it in yourself FIRST ( and I dont know why I am even debating with you)

I TOTALLY respect any women who CHOOSES not to use any form of BC
I TOTALLY respect any women who CHOOSES to use any form of BC
It does NOT make one right and the other wrong. :)
We are all walking this walk wiht a goal and purpose in mind...to make heaven our home

[ddc101]

Oh my! I might've spoken too soon! :eek:

I re-read the gentleman's post and really didn't see anything offensive in it. But, that's just me and, although I didn't have the scriptures to back it up, I agree with him....for myself.

This sort of brings me to a new question -- one that might ought to go to the General Discussion board.

Is it always "being judgemental" if we testify as to personal convictions or revelations in the Word that we might have?

Now, if my preacher gets up and preaches that purple is the color of sin and anyone who deigns to wear this wicked color is doomed to burn in Hell and "I" am sitting front and center in a bright aubergine dress...THAT is judgemental.

But if a sister on this board says, "Y'know, I was praying and just suddenly felt as though the Spirit showed me that purple entices me to entertain the spirit of vanity and for the sake of my eternal soul, I'm going to refrain from wearing it." Is that being judgemental? I don't see it as so.

I know discussions of hair length, trimming or not trimming, birth control, etc. are booming right now....take out the above references to color and insert the hot topics of the moment. Seems like the same thing to me.

If anyone is praying, fasting, studying the Word, witnessing, attending church and giving to the Lord's work regularly...and they feel comfortable and correct in using Birth Control. That's fine. They may never have convictions otherwise, but some of us were never comfortable with it -- even NOT living for God -- and some came to the realization they weren't over time. God leads willing men into the knowledge He wants them have at the time He needs them to have it.


Sister that is one thing but saying that you are a sinner if you disagree with a persons particular view of a subject that is not a salvation issue.Maybe for others but probably not for you or me because if I see it correctly we are both out of the having babies for ourselves business...lol..but if a younger sister comes here and needs fellowship and encouragement and we begin to tell her that her views are sin then what does that make us? I feel it is okay to share facts and different ideas but to call someone a sinner because we feel we are the only one who has heard the correct word from the Lord is wrong.We are to love one another and forbear and have long suffering.These things are real apostolic teaching.There are many things that have been shared on the birth control issue here.In fact I am one of the main ones to have shared medical facts about which form is actually abortion etc.But I have called no one a sinner because they disagree.That is an area where we pray for them.lv sis.c

[NanaRenan]

if I see it correctly we are both out of the having babies for ourselves business...lol..but if a younger sister comes here and needs fellowship and encouragement and we begin to tell her that her views are sin then what does that make us?
I agree wholeheartedly, Sister. In fact, being careful about how our words affect the babes in the Lord is a particular concern of mine at this time. My prayer partners and Outreach Team members at my church could verify that I harp on it constantly.

And yes -- I'm all into NANA mode now!!!

Grandkids are SO much more fun than their parents were!! :banana:

I'll have to scan a photo of my GrandDoll and upload it. I take her to church as much as my daughter will work with us on it. And on rare occasion she will bring her herself. They left my house last night with plans to come this morning. We awoke to severe thunderstorms, but remarkably they came. Daughter told me the GrandDoll was very offended at the rain...."But Mama, how can it rain on SUNday? That's when we have to go to church!"

[survivor4christ]

Your grandbaby sounds like a doll, Nana! :beammeup:

Sis. Wenona

[searching]

Originally Posted by LadyRev
...whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So...that means that anyone that goes to ANY KIND of doctor, accepts medical care, takes medicine, wears glasses, uses crutches, carries health insurance, carries life insurance, carries home owners insurance, carries automobile insurance, etc., etc., etc., on and on the list could go...

All such people are SINNERS because none of the above listed things show "faith" in God for healing, provision, or protection.
(Tongue firmly in my cheek)



Think on these things.



Originally Posted by AnointedByHim

LadyRev,

These are Red Herrings. The subject is about birth control and not these other things. Think on these things.

IOW, it's the same, but different....LOL!!!

Thank God for medical insurance!

Me...

[survivor4christ]

Love ya, Sis.

:nt: How are you doing?

Love, Sis. Wenona

[searching]

Love ya, Sis.

:nt: How are you doing?

Love, Sis. Wenona

Hi Sis.
I'm doing the same for now, but I'm having the surgery I desperately need on March 12th in Chicago. I'm keeping a positive attitude, and if all goes well, I will be sent home the next day. I'm really looking forward to getting my life back. Thanks for your prayers sis.

Me...

[NanaRenan]

Your grandbaby sounds like a doll, Nana! :beammeup:

Sis. Wenona
She surely is, Sister W.

I've placed her as my avatar...can't be selfish and keep her all to myself, y'know! Everyone should get a chance to marvel at the little diva!! :bow:

LOL

[ddc101]

Amen Sister that is one pretty little doll.lv sis.c