Preaching in Church

[Brian Lynch]

Have you ever come across certain preaching statements which don't match Scripture?

There was a time in our Church when it was often said "the bible says when the weakest of Saints pray the devil trembles" However it came to my attention when Daniel prayed and fasted a demonic force(Prince of Persia) withstood Michael the Archangel. Daniel was no weak saint neither!

One saint pointed out to a Sunday School Teacher that their is no scripture to support the statement in regard to "the bible says when the weakest of Saints pray the devil trembles" The teacher replied even if it is not scripture it is edyfying or something like that. It was also popular at one time to say " the bible says in the last days child will have child"

As far as I know this is not in the bible. The good news is that I do not hear these statements any more. We have a new Pastor who as taken us forward but how important for us to know the truth of God's word. Anyone else had similar experiences?

[nightwatchman]

How about this one,The LORD help's them that help's themselves.:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Adoniyah]

While a lot of things that we may say are not an exact quote from the scriptures many times those quotes do underscore a true principle.

If you want the devil to start shaking in his boots. Just mention one God whose name is Jesus. He also believes and trembles, according to James.

Just say, "Boo devil, there is one God and his name is Jesus who is both Lord and Christ." Watch him as his knees start knocking and his false teeth start clicking. The last that you will see of him is his tail lights going over the hill. He hates it.

The bible does not say that God helps those that helps themselves, but is that not a true principle anyway? If you do not help yourself, there is little that God can do to help, would you agree?

Check the book of Hezekiah 2:1 and see if it does not say there, "Let every tub sit on its own bottom." :)

[John Atkinson]

I thought that was in Jude 2:3...

[servant]

Have you ever heard someone get up and say, "c'mon, saints, we've got a right to praise Him!"

Have you ever considered it's more a privilege to praise Him, and not a right?

Serv :)

[Truthseeker]

How about lets lift up Jesus because it says "If I be lifted up I'll draw all men unto me...?

When it clearly teaches "lifted up" is dealing with the cross not praising him.

How about "if we don't praise him the stones will cry out?

When the church is the stones crying out. Go to church and have a service with no praise the go out and see if the stones are crying out.

[nightwatchman]

Are you positive it's in Jude 2:3 ..? I can't seen to find it.:D :D :D :D :D :D :D .............hehehehehhe

[John Atkinson]

Yes, it is right below "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" -Jude 2:2

[bill]

Truthseeker,

The stones ARE crying out right now!

I Peter 2:5
Ye also as lively stones are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

:bow:

Matt 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stonesto raise up children unto Abraham.

God DID raise up "stones" children of Abraham, and these stones are living!

Come on somebody!

[BroDane]

Heres one for ya!! ( a familiar song: Yes, Jesus loves me)

I am weak..but he is strong!

[committed]

I, too, have a problem with taking scriptures out of context, or rearranging the Word. That is what the religious world does and we avidly point it out (ie. Rom. 9:9,10) One that bothers me is when a preacher preaches, I have heard them many times say "Touch not mine anointed"....when discussing people talking against the pastor/ministry. Two things bug me about that. #1 David said "I will not touch God's anointed"....God did not command that. Besides that, anyone that is living for God in truth is anointed. Maybe not to be a preacher (which David wasn't, nor Saul), but we all can walk in His anointing. And it is no worse for a saint to criticize a preacher, than for a preacher to criticise a saint or other preachers. :realmad: One thing I have learned is WE ARE ALL HUMAN.....the ministry deserves respect, and honor.....but be it according to what they live and are not because of their position! Every man needs to earn that respect, just as the saints have to. MHO :eek:

[pastorb]

I really feel most preachers and pastors have a greater understanding of the scriptures they are trying to apply once they have lived them first before they preach them.

It took along time for me to really preach on faith I was a preachers preacher but not a people preacher, you know what I mean. You give a preacher three good scriptures and he's ready to shout, but I had nothing to hold on to by way of application other than other peoples testimonies, and that doesn't always work. May get by but doesn't work.

I was blessed with alot. $1,500 dollar a week income, beautiful 3 bedrrom house with den and fire place, beautiful house, two cars, Sunday school teacher, van driver and drummer, and then I said I wanted to preach.

All He-double tooth picks broke loose, My truck was hit by a train, had five surgeries on my leg, removed a tumor, had one car repossed had to turn the other in for a less expensive one. My wife went to work, and I lost my big beautiful house.

Now I have something to preach about. I felt like David in psalm 3, like everything was coming against me, satans whole assignment was me. But I never left church, didn't miss one meeting, I never gave up, I belieed God had something greater for me. My wife on her job received 3 raises in 6 months. Now that was Jesus. Within a year she almost made as much as I did.

I started working Temp Services and preaching here and there and I went to bible college and God just showed up and showed out. We moved into another house, and I didn't have the income but God gave it to us on a platter. Bought another Van and paid it off in two years.

Now I understand what faith is and can apply it the right way. I know what it means to wait upon the Lord and have my strength renewed. Now I know that my God shall supply all my need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. I understand what David menat when he said I was once young but now I'm old and I've never seen the righteous forsaken, nor His seed begging bread.

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[survivor4christ]

Thank you for sharing that testimony, Pastorb. I am going through somethings similar as we speak. All he double toothpicks is breaking loose in my home...

But God!!!

I won't even give the enemy any credit by talking about what he is doing. Because all these things tell me that I must be doing something right. I must be putting the devil to flight.

Back off, devil, in the name of Jesus!:realmad:

I know my God shall supply ALL my needs according to His Riches in Christ Jesus. That devil is a liar! We have the victory!

Amen!
Sis. Wenona

Back to the topic....

Yeah, the saying 'God helps those who helps themselves...' I would chuckle every time I would hear someone quote this 'scripture.' Even though I understood where they were coming from, it was still funny!;)

[Brian Lynch]

Thank You for your replies

I have also heard it said "Obey your Pastor even if you don't agree with it. Also the bible says you should always obey your Pastor. However Paul said Saint's were foolish if they allowed false leaders to oppress them

2 COR 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

We should obey(be persuaded, covinced by them over us) but Saint's are at different levels of faith. Leaders can't demand strict obediance in every situation. Saints need to develop conviction in their selfs in certain situations. Also if a Pastor want's you to be obediant to certain Church Rules it must connect with the term "watch for your Souls" . Of course Obediance to Leaders is important because it is scriptual. What I am saying Leadership isn't some play thing to throw words at the Saint's to imtimitate them. Or confuse people by saying you should always obey your Pastor. Making people feel Holier than thou because a Brother wears tee shirt or a sister wears trousers for work. Proper teaching and Proper administration of biblical leadership is important.

[bishop1]

:bow:
Some years back I drove out to see how an older couple were doing. Bro. & Sis. Huey had retired and were living a life of ease at the lake. I arrived in time to find Sis. Huey taking hot chockolate chip cookies out of the oven. She was baking them for a church bake sale and I silently thanked God for my timiely arrival.

I quickly poured a cup of coffee and as I reached for a hot cookie I heard a loud - 'aakkkaakkk' - noise coming from Sis. Huey.
I quickly said "GOD HELPS THOSE THAT HELP THEMSELVES".
I looked over just in time to see that she had a Large Rollig Pin Raised over my head. I yelled Sister and I'll never forget her reply. It was "GOD HELP YOU IF YOU HELP YOURSELF".

Sometimes people know without question
"when it's time to leave"!
:D

[Sandy]

hahahahaha Bishop. In that case it was a matter of obeying the one that had the rolling pin over you huh? :D

I think Paul also said to follow me as I follow Christ, and I take that as meaning we are to follow others as they follow Christ too, but if they get off track somewhere, then we are not to follow them down that particular road regarding that particular issue at least.

Also, as my hubby always says whenever someone tries to bring others or us into subjection to them, and it not be of the Lord, saying "touch not my anointed", well I wonder if he knows just how anointed I am or they are. :D

I just don't believe anyone has to say those things for the purpose of another to respect or even follow after them by using fear tactics or anything like it. Did Jesus even? I don't think so.

[Jesusonly]

Now that story were very funny bishop, i just can't stop laughting !!!!!

[John Atkinson]

Outstanding Testimony pastorb!!!!

[Brian Lynch]

How about the Pastor knows best. Only God is all knowing. So God knows best. Sometimes God can use other saints to direct the church like prophets or someone with a word of wisdom. What is your thoughts?

[Jesuseeker7]

Hmmm... I can't help you, I'm still trying to find Jude 2:3.... LOL :D

I agree with Bro. Strange that many of the things we hear in church that we can't find in the Bible were derived from a combination of basic principles and common sense. The prayers of the weakest saint still speak the name which carries the most power, and you can be sure the devil doesn't stand a chance.

As far as "the pastor knows best".... well, maybe not always. But the pastors in our churches have a calling from God to pastor. Although that doesn't make them ALWAYS right in every situation, God often uses them to speak to the church simply because He expects us to listen to them. Of course the Lord uses other saints as well, but you have to keep in mind that there are also times when someone in the church will say something that doesn't quite line up, and we all need to practice discernment in those times. But with the pastor, hopefully the saints in the church know and trust him well enough that they can feel confident that what he says is from the Lord. If I couldn't trust my pastor, I probably would simply be a hindrance to the growth of the church, and vice versa. JMO.

[jdcord]

Originally posted by committed
One that bothers me is when a preacher preaches, I have heard them many times say "Touch not mine anointed"....when discussing people talking against the pastor/ministry. Two things bug me about that. #1 David said "I will not touch God's anointed"....God did not command that.
1 Chronicles 16:21-22
21 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

The exact same words are found in Psalm 105 (because 1st Chronicles 16 essentially records Psalm 105).


And it is no worse for a saint to criticize a preacher, than for a preacher to criticise a saint or other preachers.
Actually, it is WORSE for a preacher to do it. As it is written: "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matt. 18:6)

But .......................... that doesn't mean that it is ok for a saint to criticize a preacher.


One thing I have learned is WE ARE ALL HUMAN.....the ministry deserves respect, and honor.....but be it according to what they live and are not because of their position! Every man needs to earn that respect, just as the saints have to. MHO :eek:
Let's go back to that man David you tried to use as an example: Why did David show respect and honer for King Saul? Was it because of how Saul lived? Was Saul setting a good example with his walk? Or was it because of the position God had given to Saul?

It sure wasn't Saul's walk with God that caused David to give him that honor and respect! Saul didn't have one!!

No, David's honor and respect had nothing at all to do with Saul's walk or example, and everything to do with the position that God had given Saul.

Will you follow David's example? Or will you go by your own reasoning?

[JSP]

Bro Brian,

I have found over the years that "the weakest of saints do not pray" so there is no reason for the devil to tremble.

I will give you one tho; James 2:19

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and TREMBLE.

[Brian Lynch]

1 Chronicles 16:21-22
21 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

Rom.15
[4] For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

If saints say we must be careful what we say about the man of God(Pastor). It for me is a valid point in a sense. However we must be careful what we say OR DO TO each other as SAINTS. It is true a pastor as to be specially careful what he says or the way he conducts himself towards the saints because of his responsibilty as a guide to the flock. I know that we are all anointed as saints and in a sense are all men of God. Wether it is right to call a pastor man of God in the sense of being a great spiritual guide and influence for the saints. I dont know.

Tit.3
[2] To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

We are not to speak or harm the unsaved in an evil way neither.
And they are not anointed Saints!

[Brian Lynch]

I would guess the Pastor does no best in the sense of the responsibilty and guidance given to him by God in certain situations. For instance if a saint told another saint a brother can date a sister by taking her to a cafe for a coffee. But another saint said you can not go to a cafe for a coffee on a date unless some other saint is present with the couple. It would be best to seek guidance on this issue with the Pastor. This does not mean the Pastor knows everything. Or that God chooses the Pastor to direct the Church on every single matter. Of course the Pastor must be dedicated to the will of God.

[jwharvell]

I have alot of pet peeves about people telling people thins are in the Bible and their not. If it's not an actual scripture don't say it is because it makes you a liar.

Things I have heard were actual scripture are plainly stated in scripture:

1.Share and share alike.

2.God won't hear a sinners prayer. (Taken out of context in every example.)

3.Cleanliness is next to Godliness.

4.Jesus was wounded with 39 stripes.

5.We all have our copies of the 10 commandments that say "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife" but the first thing the Bible says not to covet was his House. I think alot of people have been guilty of coveting houses and cars.

6.Cain took a wife from the land of Nod. (The Bible says he knew his wife in the land of Nod.)



I could go on all day. I think it's a lack of scriptural knowledge thats prevelant in the church today. The only Bible some people know is what the preacher gives them and the precher is gettting his from dial-a-sermon.

[Brian Lynch]

Phil.4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

I have heard it said from the pulpit be careful for nothing. Mentioned in the sense. Attentive to potential danger, error, or harm; cautious: was careful when crossing the busy street; gave a careful answer.

We could argue that its a valid point to say Careful for Nothing in the above context. But careful in this scripture refers to worry and anxiety.

Full of cares or anxiety: “Thou art careful and troubled about many things” (Luke 10:41).

Philippians 4:6(NIV)
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

Scriptures are written for a reason. When we speak the truth of the context of Scripture. God is glorified and saints are edified.

Matthew 6:1(NIV)
"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.


Matthew 16:6(NIV)
"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

If we want to say be careful in the sense of potential danger, error, or harm; Then we should use the right scriptual context.

[Renee]

I have heard this before: "We will be gone in the moment, in the twinkling of an eye"

1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[lamama]

Have you ever come across certain preaching statements which don't match Scripture?

If we haven't, either our local assembly is really doing something right, or we need to study.

Heres one for ya!! ( a familiar song: Yes, Jesus loves me)

I am weak..but he is strong!
That's bible.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. II Corinthians 12:9



I have also heard it said "Obey your Pastor even if you don't agree with it.

That's better than, "Obey your pastor even if he doesn't line up with what you see in the word." which is what at least one friend of ours, in a dictatorial Apostolic setting, is facing right now. Most modern day "pastoral" positions are assumed.


Also the bible says you should always obey your Pastor. However Paul said Saint's were foolish if they allowed false leaders to oppress them

2 COR 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. .

I was just recently thinking about that verse and wondering if meant we should suffer fools, or if Paul was getting on to the church for suffering them.
My husband says it's the latter.

What I am saying Leadership isn't some play thing to throw words at the Saint's to imtimitate them. Or confuse people by saying you should always obey your Pastor.... Proper teaching and Proper administration of biblical leadership is important.

Amen. Below are selected portions from an article at The Glorious Church website entitled, "Touch Not Mine Annointed?"

TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED?

by John R. Anderson
January 1997


One of the most common errors found in Christianity today is that
particular persons, usually pastors or evangelists, are somehow more
"anointed" than the average Christian. This teaching often coincides with a
veiled threat in the form of "touch not mine [the Lord's] anointed," (I Ch.
16:22, Ps. 105:15).

The term "anointing" means to "authorize, or set apart, a person for a
particular work or service," (Is.61:1). The New Testament is absolutely
clear on whom the anointing rests - ALL of Christ's disciples, who are
God's very own, set apart and commissioned for service (2 Cor. 1:21). The
New Testament does not support the notion of a "greater" anointing based on
"position" and such teaching has its origin in a fundamental
misunderstanding of the relationship between the Old and New Testaments.

Proponents of this error fail to use careful exegesis to discern the
difference between the Old Testament call of a "prophet," where the
anointing rested on one man (Is. 61:1, I Sam. 26:9,11, 2 Sam. 22:51, 2 Chr.
6:42), and the New Testament call of a "priesthood of believers" (I Pet.
2:5,9). Certainly there are diversities of gifts, but the Spirit [or
anointing] remains the same (I Cor. 12). Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland,
Kenneth Hagin, and many others have long terrorized God's people with
"touch not mine anointed" nonsense if anyone dared question them or their
teaching. Anyone who has a gift (all have gifts, 1 Cor. 12:7-11), has a
ministry, and anyone who has a ministry, has authority and is anointed.

It is a sad situation in many churches today that "laity" are content to
sit on a pew week after week and assume the opinions of professional
clergymen are to be the final authority. They find comfort in this approach
because it is safe. Preachers are content to keep it this way because it
secures their position in the church.

How many times have believers been subjected to mishandled scripture with
an implicit or explicit "touch not God's anointed" if any dared to
question? This is in contrast to the Biblical admonition to "try the
spirits", (1 John 4:1). Fear is not of God and teaching which incorporates
psychological intimidation is corrupt and deceptive. One of the easiest
ways to determine what "spirit" motivates a person "in authority" is to
question them. A godly man or woman will never be offended or become
indignant if someone dares to question them and compare what is said with
the Word of God. However, if one is motivated by an "authoritarian" spirit
of conceit or arrogance, the questioner will soon know it. Peter warned the
elders (pastors and spiritual guides of the church) not to be domineering
[arrogant, dictatorial, overbearing] over the flock of God, but to be
patterns and models of Christian living (I Pet. 5:3, AMPL.)

Many prominent pastors and evangelists today make the claim that because
"healings" take place in their meetings, that this somehow validates their
ministry...

- yet ALL of these saw miracles take place in their
meetings. Because one is blessed with "prosperity" and has a "following" of
thousands, doesn't mean anything when it comes to integrity and godly
sanction, for "he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and
sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust," (Matt. 5:45).

Twenty-six years ago I experienced the greatest miracle of my life - the
baptism of the Holy Spirit. This experience came in a Pentecostal
"holiness" church ...

[tufluv]

Lamama:
This taught me that just because God moves in a particular
setting, it is no indication that those who bear the message are "godly."

..or ministering within GOD's order.

Good article from J.Anderson, much truth in it.

[Brian Lynch]

lamama I beleif your husband is right

2 COR 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. .


I was just recently thinking about that verse and wondering if meant we should suffer fools, or if Paul was getting on to the church for suffering them.
My husband says it's the latter.

[BrotherBallard]

I thought that was in Jude 2:3...What??? Bro. Atkinson, you disappoint me, and your the Admin!!! But even Admin's make mistakes, let me help you out.

It's actually in the Old Testament, it's Obadiah 2:3, you were close just the wrong book!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Brian Lynch]

JSP
Bro & Sis Patterson I have found over the years that "the weakest of saints do not pray" so there is no reason for the devil to tremble.

If we are feeling week then consider LUKE 18:1

LUKE 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;


COLOSSIANS 12:4 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God

Colossians 4:12(NIV) Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured.

How Important to pray for one another too.

:bow:

[Norman]

"How about this one,The LORD help's them that help's themselves"

and the government helps those that don't

[nightwatchman]

"How about this one,The LORD help's them that help's themselves"

and the government helps those that don't



ROFLOL....

[Brian Lynch]

There is the danger of grabbing scriptures and runing with it without harmonizing it with other scriptures.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

What about other scriptures Acts 2:38 etc.

What about just call on the Lord and be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But what about other scriptures regarding salvation like

2Thes.2
[13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Often used regarding holiness but mentions peace too.

MARK 16;16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

ROMANS 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

What about grabing half the greek meaning of a word like name and say it just means authority and character(which it does partly) and then say Baptism in Jesus name is just in the authority of Jesus. And then say strangely that Mt 28:19 refers to the formula name.

Matt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

However "name" in the Nt refers to an actual name as well as authority and character.

So let us think on this wise.

Please Lord help us not to grab the scripture and run with it without understanding what is being said!

[Brian Lynch]

I have known it said the Holy Spirit is different to the Holy Ghost. But they are intrerchangeable. I have known and heard it said Baptism of the Holy Ghost is different to being filled with the Holy Ghost. It appears to be the same. Of course there are different meanings to being filled.

The initial infilling. Acts 2:4

A fresh blessing or anointing of the spirit through prayer.

Acts 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30: By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.


Allowing the spirit to take control of one's life daily by submitting to it.


Ephesians 5:18: And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Exodus.31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

So in the Old Testament they could be filled with the spirit for a particular purpose. Obviously different to the way the NT saints have it.

However Exodus 31:3 does have a point for us saints regarding Wisdom, Knowledge and understanding.

Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

[Hnovilla]

His NAME is Jesus!

Very good post, Brother Lynch.

It's the Gospel, Church!
Brother Villa

[Brian Lynch]

His NAME is Jesus!

Very good post, Brother Lynch.

It's the Gospel, Church!
Brother Villa

Thank Jesus for Brother Villa. Thats nice of you Brother Villa.

[scout]

I really feel most preachers and pastors have a greater understanding of the scriptures they are trying to apply once they have lived them first before they preach them.

It took along time for me to really preach on faith I was a preachers preacher but not a people preacher, you know what I mean. You give a preacher three good scriptures and he's ready to shout, but I had nothing to hold on to by way of application other than other peoples testimonies, and that doesn't always work. May get by but doesn't work.

I was blessed with alot. $1,500 dollar a week income, beautiful 3 bedrrom house with den and fire place, beautiful house, two cars, Sunday school teacher, van driver and drummer, and then I said I wanted to preach.

All He-double tooth picks broke loose, My truck was hit by a train, had five surgeries on my leg, removed a tumor, had one car repossed had to turn the other in for a less expensive one. My wife went to work, and I lost my big beautiful house.

Now I have something to preach about. I felt like David in psalm 3, like everything was coming against me, satans whole assignment was me. But I never left church, didn't miss one meeting, I never gave up, I belieed God had something greater for me. My wife on her job received 3 raises in 6 months. Now that was Jesus. Within a year she almost made as much as I did.

I started working Temp Services and preaching here and there and I went to bible college and God just showed up and showed out. We moved into another house, and I didn't have the income but God gave it to us on a platter. Bought another Van and paid it off in two years.

Now I understand what faith is and can apply it the right way. I know what it means to wait upon the Lord and have my strength renewed. Now I know that my God shall supply all my need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. I understand what David menat when he said I was once young but now I'm old and I've never seen the righteous forsaken, nor His seed begging bread.

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thats awesome brother. You are truly blessed. The Lord somtimes knocks us down to lift us up. It was the only way He got to me. I'm in the marines and on my last deployment for 8 months away from my wife and 3 month old daughter i felt Jesus enter into my life. I was on the shooting team in Japan and drinking everynight giving in to unclean spirits daily and nightly, and one night it happened,spirits filled my room, not good spirits, spirits that made me yell out in the night to leave me alone. After about 2 weeks of this I opened my wifes' bible and got into the word. I began to pray the blood of Jesus as I felt these spirits around me and at the sound of His name they were gone. I was truly knocked done and felt helpless which we all are without the Lord. Jesus lifted me up. I cannot explain in words how awesome He has been to me and I look forward to the mark that I am pressing for. I love to here how He has engaged in everyones lives,but a lot don't even know it yet. Praise the Lord!

[Brian Lynch]

I have heard it said in church praise God for who he is, not because of what he has done? I heard Gospel song about worshiping God for who he is, not for what he has done.

Book of Psalms 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

The fact that God has made himself known to us through what he has done such as the sacrafice of Jesus Christ. Can we ever praise God just for who he is.

JOHN 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

PSALM 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork

God has revealed himself to man through what he has done in creation.

REVELATION 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

PSALM 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits


Can we ever praise or worship God for who he is and not for what he has done? It would seem to me we praise and worship GOD for who he is and what he has done? Am I missing the point? I welcome further insight.

Thank You For Your Attention

[Shauna]

Have you ever come across certain preaching statements which don't match Scripture?

There was a time in our Church when it was often said "the bible says when the weakest of Saints pray the devil trembles" However it came to my attention when Daniel prayed and fasted a demonic force(Prince of Persia) withstood Michael the Archangel. Daniel was no weak saint neither!

One saint pointed out to a Sunday School Teacher that their is no scripture to support the statement in regard to "the bible says when the weakest of Saints pray the devil trembles" The teacher replied even if it is not scripture it is edyfying or something like that. It was also popular at one time to say " the bible says in the last days child will have child"

As far as I know this is not in the bible. The good news is that I do not hear these statements any more. We have a new Pastor who as taken us forward but how important for us to know the truth of God's word. Anyone else had similar experiences?



The teaching of the husband being "high priest, prophet and king" of the home isn't anywhere in the Bible.

[Norman]

Check the book of Hezekiah 2:1 and see if it does not say there, "Let every tub sit on its own bottom."

I wonder if anybody would confess to actually looking that one up.

[tufluv]

I have heard it said in church praise God for who he is, not because of what he has done? I heard Gospel song about worshiping God for who he is, not for what he has done.

Book of Psalms 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

The fact that God has made himself known to us through what he has done such as the sacrafice of Jesus Christ. Can we ever praise God just for who he is.

JOHN 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

PSALM 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork

God has revealed himself to man through what he has done in creation.

REVELATION 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

PSALM 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits


Can we ever praise or worship God for who he is and not for what he has done? It would seem to me we praise and worship GOD for who he is and what he has done? Am I missing the point? I welcome further insight.

Thank You For Your Attention

:wah: WHOM HE is has made it possible for HIM to do what HE has done! :D

[RevDooley]

How about lets lift up Jesus because it says "If I be lifted up I'll draw all men unto me...?

When it clearly teaches "lifted up" is dealing with the cross not praising him.

How about "if we don't praise him the stones will cry out?

When the church is the stones crying out. Go to church and have a service with no praise the go out and see if the stones are crying out.If that were the only way to look at that particualr scripture, then we might as well not lift Him up since it is already done.
HOGWASH!
I will continue to lift Him up since it has a drawing affect- it draws saints and sinners alike.
When we praise God, we get a little closer because God inhabits praise. He literally builds a tent over our praise. What better way to be drawn closer to Him than to lift Him up with our praises.

[RevDooley]

The teaching of the husband being "high priest, prophet and king" of the home isn't anywhere in the Bible.The Bible says that the husband is head of the wife AS Christ is head of the church. This infers a priestly, kingly and prophetic position.
Unfortunately, so many men use this to run roughshod over their spouses and forget that it also says that He gave Himself for it.
I sincerely hope that your husband is willing to give his own life even for you and your home. In so doing, he will fully be able to step into the priestly, prophetic, and evne kingly anointing that God would desire. Otherwise, he will be just a tyrant.

[Shauna]

The Bible says that the husband is head of the wife AS Christ is head of the church. This infers a priestly, kingly and prophetic position.
Unfortunately, so many men use this to run roughshod over their spouses and forget that it also says that He gave Himself for it.
I sincerely hope that your husband is willing to give his own life even for you and your home. In so doing, he will fully be able to step into the priestly, prophetic, and evne kingly anointing that God would desire. Otherwise, he will be just a tyrant.

But why isn't any of it written anywhere in the Bible? I was taught the same thing in church and believed it for a long time. However I've been looking for a few years now and haven't found anything to back those teachings up. I set out to prove they were right but in the end I couldn't back it up. The only person I found who had a priest in their home was Micah in Judges 17. He was a thief and an idolater. 1 Peter 2:9 says that we as believers are a royal priesthood. That's all I could find in regard to that. Beyond that I haven't seen where the Bible commands us to have any type of household prophets, priests or king anywhere. Does it? If it does can you show me where so I can get a better understanding.

[RevDooley]

But why isn't any of it written anywhere in the Bible? I was taught the same thing in church and believed it for a long time. However I've been looking for a few years now and haven't found anything to back those teachings up. I set out to prove they were right but in the end I couldn't back it up. The only person I found who had a priest in their home was Micah in Judges 17. He was a thief and an idolater. 1 Peter 2:9 says that we as believers are a royal priesthood. That's all I could find in regard to that. Beyond that I haven't seen where the Bible commands us to have any type of household prophets, priests or king anywhere. Does it? If it does can you show me where so I can get a better understanding. I never said that we should have household prophets. I said that the man is head of the wife AS christ is head of the church.
The bone that you seem to be picking at is something that this message board is ill prepared to deal with. Might I suggest that you counsel with your pastor?

[Shauna]

I never said that we should have household prophets. I said that the man is head of the wife AS christ is head of the church.
The bone that you seem to be picking at is something that this message board is ill prepared to deal with. Might I suggest that you counsel with your pastor?

Rev. Dooley,

I wasn't picking a bone. I was merely responding to the topic of this thread. You did say:

"The Bible says that the husband is head of the wife AS Christ is head of the church. This infers a priestly, kingly and prophetic position."

I was only saying that none of that is actually written in the Bible. Not because of what YOU said it but because that is what I had been taught for years. I wasn't attacking you in anyway at all. What need is there to seek pastoral counseling? I don't understand that statement. Is it because I can't find those verses in the Bible?

[daisy lover]

I like to hear preaching at church. That is really what I go for.

[RevDooley]

Rev. Dooley,

I wasn't picking a bone. I was merely responding to the topic of this thread. You did say:

"The Bible says that the husband is head of the wife AS Christ is head of the church. This infers a priestly, kingly and prophetic position."

I was only saying that none of that is actually written in the Bible. Not because of what YOU said it but because that is what I had been taught for years. I wasn't attacking you in anyway at all. What need is there to seek pastoral counseling? I don't understand that statement. Is it because I can't find those verses in the Bible?I suggestd counseling since it appeared that you had a bone stuck in your craw so to speak. I retract the statement.
The husband has been in place since the beginning as protectos and leader of the home. The word "husband" literally comes from a combination of words "house-band" which denotes his job.
This is all included in a variety of scriptures and we are most certainly to fulfill these roles in our homes.
Pristly function does not mean that we are to lord it over our homes but rather to help our families in their walk with God. This is not restricted to just the man, but all should be doing this at home.
A kingly function is applicanle since man is made in the image of God. That image is kingly, priestly and often prophetic. Kingly also means that we must make decisions that often mean breaking the tie amongst family members. It isn't always popular, but it is necessary.
Prophetic ministry does NOT always mean that there is a prophecy coming your way from your husband.
God spoke with Adam face to face. We find that the only time that He did so with Eve was at the fall. Adam should have fulfilled his role and passed on that word to Eve. He did not. Read Eve's response to the serpent and you will see that she did not understand the commandment of God that was given to Adam. That tells me that Adam either did not tell her or he only told her the part that he wanted her to know. I believe they were a dysfunctional family, but that should be on another thread.
That face to face communication is not reserved to Adam, but we find that God generally spoke to men throughout the Bible. That word should be passed on to the home. It should never be withheld.
Don't read into this that I oppose lady ministers. My wife is an example of what I believe and is an awesome minister in her own walk with God. She has my full support.
I hope this helps your understanding.

[Shauna]

I suggestd counseling since it appeared that you had a bone stuck in your craw so to speak. I retract the statement.
The husband has been in place since the beginning as protectos and leader of the home. The word "husband" literally comes from a combination of words "house-band" which denotes his job.
This is all included in a variety of scriptures and we are most certainly to fulfill these roles in our homes.
Pristly function does not mean that we are to lord it over our homes but rather to help our families in their walk with God. This is not restricted to just the man, but all should be doing this at home.
A kingly function is applicanle since man is made in the image of God. That image is kingly, priestly and often prophetic. Kingly also means that we must make decisions that often mean breaking the tie amongst family members. It isn't always popular, but it is necessary.
Prophetic ministry does NOT always mean that there is a prophecy coming your way from your husband.
God spoke with Adam face to face. We find that the only time that He did so with Eve was at the fall. Adam should have fulfilled his role and passed on that word to Eve. He did not. Read Eve's response to the serpent and you will see that she did not understand the commandment of God that was given to Adam. That tells me that Adam either did not tell her or he only told her the part that he wanted her to know. I believe they were a dysfunctional family, but that should be on another thread.
That face to face communication is not reserved to Adam, but we find that God generally spoke to men throughout the Bible. That word should be passed on to the home. It should never be withheld.
Don't read into this that I oppose lady ministers. My wife is an example of what I believe and is an awesome minister in her own walk with God. She has my full support.
I hope this helps your understanding.

Rev. Dooley,

Thank you for your response. Check your private messages when you get a chance.

[Banditt]

Have you ever come across certain preaching statements which don't match Scripture?



there is a whole bunch of stuff people say that is not in the bible. LOL
i think some preachers just get real excited & others give the old politics review about Presidents & historical figures.

actually i am more into teaching & topic studies than preaching. like wednessday night bible studies especially. i feel the annointing so strong in teaching. quite often the teaching where i go is fill in the blank for the scriptures read, & the congregation fills in the blanks...one way you know you cant be wrong.
then our pastor just expounds a little on the passages being read & cross references them with a second & third witness.

[RevDooley]

there is a whole bunch of stuff people say that is not in the bible. LOL
i think some preachers just get real excited & others give the old politics review about Presidents & historical figures.

actually i am more into teaching & topic studies than preaching. like wednessday night bible studies especially. i feel the annointing so strong in teaching. quite often the teaching where i go is fill in the blank for the scriptures read, & the congregation fills in the blanks...one way you know you cant be wrong.
then our pastor just expounds a little on the passages being read & cross references them with a second & third witness.There are a lot of things that are not clearly defined in scripture. Others that are defined but OT so some liberals think that they no longer are applicable.
I believe that we should follow Paul's advice to Timothy "study to show THYSELF approved". That is the crux of the matter.
We will always have a differing opinion on some things that are taught in church. That is human nature. The key is to not allow that opinion to drive a wedge between our brothers and sisters. Satan likes to use things like this to do exactly that because he knows that a non-inufued church is a powerless church.